not bad
September 24, 2010 3:25 AM Subscribe
I'm learning English. Could you tell me the difference between "not bad" and " not half bad "?? It means, "very good"? If there is a kind of different nuance between the two, please show me how to use them.
I dont think they have formal uses. I would say they mean pretty much the same thing. They both mean "not bad" - but often used to mean "good" or "very good" and have a variety of contexts. I would suggest that when spoken, the tone is more important.
If my friend made something pretty cool, I could say "thats not bad, not bad at all" when I actually mean "awesome" but I'm being a bit cool, a bit reserved.
If a student of mine made something that was "ok", I could use it more constructively; "hey thats not bad, but here's how it could be used."
Tone would be important then.
posted by daveyt at 3:31 AM on September 24, 2010 [2 favorites]
If my friend made something pretty cool, I could say "thats not bad, not bad at all" when I actually mean "awesome" but I'm being a bit cool, a bit reserved.
If a student of mine made something that was "ok", I could use it more constructively; "hey thats not bad, but here's how it could be used."
Tone would be important then.
posted by daveyt at 3:31 AM on September 24, 2010 [2 favorites]
They both mean basically the same thing ("reasonably good / okay"), but "not half bad" is a slightly more informal/colloquial version.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 3:31 AM on September 24, 2010
posted by EndsOfInvention at 3:31 AM on September 24, 2010
In English english, rather than American English, there is definitely a difference.
Not bad = ok, pretty good, alright
Not half bad = great, better than expected, very satisfactory.
posted by greenish at 3:34 AM on September 24, 2010 [4 favorites]
Not bad = ok, pretty good, alright
Not half bad = great, better than expected, very satisfactory.
posted by greenish at 3:34 AM on September 24, 2010 [4 favorites]
Both these phrases mean "better than expected." The only difference is in degrees. "Not bad" means that something is somewhat good, and that the speaker is somewhat surprised or impressed at this. "Not half bad" means basically the same thing, but it implies even more surprise that whatever is being discussed is good.
posted by Gilbert at 3:34 AM on September 24, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by Gilbert at 3:34 AM on September 24, 2010 [1 favorite]
At least in the States, in every region in which I've lived (midwest, northwest, Rocky mountains) they mean the same thing.
posted by monkeymadness at 3:39 AM on September 24, 2010
posted by monkeymadness at 3:39 AM on September 24, 2010
Unfortunately it depends somewhat on who is speaking.
"Not half bad" is a less common phrase, and always means something like "very good". That's the easy one, but it's not used much by anyone I know. Perhaps somebody who uses this phrase will say more about it.
"Not bad" is more problematic. It can mean "not bad (therefore good)" or "not bad (but not good either)" depending on context and on who the speaker is. For my mother (who is from a Yorkshire Methodist family), "not bad" is about the highest praise possible for her to give, since she is incapable of saying anything that's actually positive. For many others, and perhaps more commonly in America, it might be used as a tactful and polite way of suggesting that something could be improved - "that's not bad, but I think you can do better". The difference is really whether the words "not bad" are followed with "but..." (or said in a way that implies "but..." could follow it if the speaker were to be less tactful).
posted by nowonmai at 3:42 AM on September 24, 2010 [1 favorite]
"Not half bad" is a less common phrase, and always means something like "very good". That's the easy one, but it's not used much by anyone I know. Perhaps somebody who uses this phrase will say more about it.
"Not bad" is more problematic. It can mean "not bad (therefore good)" or "not bad (but not good either)" depending on context and on who the speaker is. For my mother (who is from a Yorkshire Methodist family), "not bad" is about the highest praise possible for her to give, since she is incapable of saying anything that's actually positive. For many others, and perhaps more commonly in America, it might be used as a tactful and polite way of suggesting that something could be improved - "that's not bad, but I think you can do better". The difference is really whether the words "not bad" are followed with "but..." (or said in a way that implies "but..." could follow it if the speaker were to be less tactful).
posted by nowonmai at 3:42 AM on September 24, 2010 [1 favorite]
I'm in the UK, and I don't know whether these phrases are used similarly in all English speaking countries.
Here, "That's not bad" means "good". In addition, you might be either surprised that it's good ("Wow! It's not bad!"), or you're saying that there's room for improvement ("it's not bad, but it isn't exactly good either")
"Not half bad" is a strange expression. I've heard "Not half X" used to mean "Very X" . If you google for "Not half annoying" you get people trying to say that something IS annoying. Perhaps they mean: not only HALF annoying but FULLY annoying!
You also see "Not half bad as X" which is an ungrammatical expression used to mean "Bad, but not as bad as X". Also, "Not half X enough ...", meaning someone is X but not X enough.
I think "Not half bad", specifically, would usually be understood to mean the same as "Not bad" but it's an unusual construction and I think it could confuse people.
posted by emilyw at 3:45 AM on September 24, 2010
Here, "That's not bad" means "good". In addition, you might be either surprised that it's good ("Wow! It's not bad!"), or you're saying that there's room for improvement ("it's not bad, but it isn't exactly good either")
"Not half bad" is a strange expression. I've heard "Not half X" used to mean "Very X" . If you google for "Not half annoying" you get people trying to say that something IS annoying. Perhaps they mean: not only HALF annoying but FULLY annoying!
You also see "Not half bad as X" which is an ungrammatical expression used to mean "Bad, but not as bad as X". Also, "Not half X enough ...", meaning someone is X but not X enough.
I think "Not half bad", specifically, would usually be understood to mean the same as "Not bad" but it's an unusual construction and I think it could confuse people.
posted by emilyw at 3:45 AM on September 24, 2010
Let's say you are offered a job, and you wanted to be paid $40,000 for it. You are talking to a friend, who asks how the negotiations went...
If the company offered to pay you $40,000: "I got the job, and the pay is not bad."
(That is, in line with your expectations.)
If the company offered to pay you $45,000: "I got the job, and the pay is not half bad!"
(That is, pretty good but you don't want to brag.)
If the company offered to pay you $100,000: "I got the job, and the pay is fantastic!"
(That is, so good that you will brag.)
posted by Houstonian at 4:17 AM on September 24, 2010 [1 favorite]
If the company offered to pay you $40,000: "I got the job, and the pay is not bad."
(That is, in line with your expectations.)
If the company offered to pay you $45,000: "I got the job, and the pay is not half bad!"
(That is, pretty good but you don't want to brag.)
If the company offered to pay you $100,000: "I got the job, and the pay is fantastic!"
(That is, so good that you will brag.)
posted by Houstonian at 4:17 AM on September 24, 2010 [1 favorite]
Writing from the USA, I would say they are equivalent, and that both are used to express an understated approval. That is, the speaker thinks the subject is very good, but says 'not bad' to avoid gushing.
Please don't ask me to explain gushing.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 4:18 AM on September 24, 2010
Please don't ask me to explain gushing.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 4:18 AM on September 24, 2010
Response by poster: In the film "The Backet List", Edward says," Oh yeah. Your mountain. Still this ain't half bad." After Carter's saying," Wait till see my mountain." Then I wondered how's different..
"not half bad" is not a common expression in the UK?
posted by mizukko at 4:19 AM on September 24, 2010
"not half bad" is not a common expression in the UK?
posted by mizukko at 4:19 AM on September 24, 2010
I think Houstonian's example is the clearest.
Having lived long-term in both the US and the UK I don't think there is a difference in usage the way there is with the perplexing word "quite."
posted by DarlingBri at 4:24 AM on September 24, 2010
Having lived long-term in both the US and the UK I don't think there is a difference in usage the way there is with the perplexing word "quite."
posted by DarlingBri at 4:24 AM on September 24, 2010
"not half bad" is not a common expression in the UK?Based on this thread, it sounds like it (or at least the nuance of pleasant surprise) is not as ubiquitous in the UK as I thought. It's certainly how I use it though, and people seem to understand me.
posted by caek at 4:36 AM on September 24, 2010
"Not half bad" is commonly used in South Wales, and yes, it means "pretty good, all things considered" to me.
So the earlier definition of better than expected is closest to my experience.
'Not bad' on the other hand just means what it says; OK, Satisfactory etc
posted by handybitesize at 4:55 AM on September 24, 2010 [1 favorite]
So the earlier definition of better than expected is closest to my experience.
'Not bad' on the other hand just means what it says; OK, Satisfactory etc
posted by handybitesize at 4:55 AM on September 24, 2010 [1 favorite]
"Not bad" is more problematic. It can mean "not bad (therefore good)" or "not bad (but not good either)" depending on context and on who the speaker is. For my mother (who is from a Yorkshire Methodist family), "not bad" is about the highest praise possible for her to give, since she is incapable of saying anything that's actually positive.
This is often the case in Australia too, in my experience. I am also from a Methodist background though, for what it's worth. My father's highest forms of praise are also "not bad" and, in superlative cases, "Well that was all right" (!)
I agree with nowanmai that the meaning of the phrase really depends who is speaking, and also on the tone of voice. I inadvertently caused some USian eyebrows once by saying that a friend's cooking was "Not bad". That means, of course, that he's an amazing cook, but I don't think that was how they interpreted it!
(Somewhat related: if someone is very smart I'll also say that they're "not stupid". I think that this form of understatement is pretty common in Australia.)
posted by rubbish bin night at 4:55 AM on September 24, 2010
This is often the case in Australia too, in my experience. I am also from a Methodist background though, for what it's worth. My father's highest forms of praise are also "not bad" and, in superlative cases, "Well that was all right" (!)
I agree with nowanmai that the meaning of the phrase really depends who is speaking, and also on the tone of voice. I inadvertently caused some USian eyebrows once by saying that a friend's cooking was "Not bad". That means, of course, that he's an amazing cook, but I don't think that was how they interpreted it!
(Somewhat related: if someone is very smart I'll also say that they're "not stupid". I think that this form of understatement is pretty common in Australia.)
posted by rubbish bin night at 4:55 AM on September 24, 2010
Um, I mean that I caused some raised USian eyebrows once. I'm not actually capable of causing eyebrows.
posted by rubbish bin night at 4:57 AM on September 24, 2010
posted by rubbish bin night at 4:57 AM on September 24, 2010
daveyt I would suggest that when spoken, the tone is more important.
Seconding the speaker's tone. As most of the replies have discussed, "not bad" often means "okay, acceptable, good but not great," and "not half bad" often means "good!"
But the best way to tell is context. If someone who uses one of these phrases is very animated and excited, it means "good" or "great." If they are more reserved, then it's closer to "okay" or "good but not great."
posted by Tehhund at 6:08 AM on September 24, 2010
Seconding the speaker's tone. As most of the replies have discussed, "not bad" often means "okay, acceptable, good but not great," and "not half bad" often means "good!"
But the best way to tell is context. If someone who uses one of these phrases is very animated and excited, it means "good" or "great." If they are more reserved, then it's closer to "okay" or "good but not great."
posted by Tehhund at 6:08 AM on September 24, 2010
"Not bad" could mean anything from just acceptable to pretty good, depending on context and tone of voice.
"Not half bad" just about always means pretty good. Often, but not always, an implication of surprise is included.
posted by tdismukes at 6:20 AM on September 24, 2010
"Not half bad" just about always means pretty good. Often, but not always, an implication of surprise is included.
posted by tdismukes at 6:20 AM on September 24, 2010
"Not bad" is a slang term that was popularized in tv sitcoms to mean an understated way of saying "good". "Not half bad" isn't as popular but is just a further understatement meaning "good" but a little less so.
posted by JJ86 at 6:44 AM on September 24, 2010
posted by JJ86 at 6:44 AM on September 24, 2010
I don't think either are formally defined and, like a lot of slang/colloqialisms, their precise meaning will vary dramatically between areas. To my ears, something that's "not half bad" is better than something that's just "not bad". I think it's because adding the extra word adds emphasis to the phrase, as much as anything else.
I'll echo the suggestion that, because it's so poorly defined and regionally variable, tone of voice is probably more important than precise wording.
"not half bad" is not a common expression in the UK?
I hear it far less in London than I did in Wales, although this is possibly because in London I spend a lot less time with native English speakers than I did in Wales. I don't think I've ever heard someone from Scotland or even the north of England (let's say N. Yorkshire and up) say it. By contrast, "not bad" seems fairly common across Wales and England. I haven't spent enough time in Scotland or N Ireland to comment on those.
posted by metaBugs at 7:04 AM on September 24, 2010
I'll echo the suggestion that, because it's so poorly defined and regionally variable, tone of voice is probably more important than precise wording.
"not half bad" is not a common expression in the UK?
I hear it far less in London than I did in Wales, although this is possibly because in London I spend a lot less time with native English speakers than I did in Wales. I don't think I've ever heard someone from Scotland or even the north of England (let's say N. Yorkshire and up) say it. By contrast, "not bad" seems fairly common across Wales and England. I haven't spent enough time in Scotland or N Ireland to comment on those.
posted by metaBugs at 7:04 AM on September 24, 2010
One point that's overlooked - there's a reason someone would say "not bad" or "not half bad" instead of just saying "good". Part of the meaning of both phrases is the implication that you were expecting something worse.
posted by GhostintheMachine at 7:07 AM on September 24, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by GhostintheMachine at 7:07 AM on September 24, 2010 [1 favorite]
Some more about 'not half':
'Not half' is used in English for other things. 'Not half hot', 'Not half quiet'. In Britain, not many people say this now, it is an old way of speaking.
I think it is a way of saying that something is 'fully hot' or 'fully quiet'. The idiom emphasises that it is not 'a little hot'.
'Not half bad' is a combination of 'not bad' with the 'not half' idiom, it does not make sense literally, but it means 'not half good'.
Hopefully this thread has helped. I don't think you need to learn to use 'not half' as a learner of English as it is old, just to understand when people say it. (I think this is true for USA as well?)
posted by Not Supplied at 7:13 AM on September 24, 2010
'Not half' is used in English for other things. 'Not half hot', 'Not half quiet'. In Britain, not many people say this now, it is an old way of speaking.
I think it is a way of saying that something is 'fully hot' or 'fully quiet'. The idiom emphasises that it is not 'a little hot'.
'Not half bad' is a combination of 'not bad' with the 'not half' idiom, it does not make sense literally, but it means 'not half good'.
Hopefully this thread has helped. I don't think you need to learn to use 'not half' as a learner of English as it is old, just to understand when people say it. (I think this is true for USA as well?)
posted by Not Supplied at 7:13 AM on September 24, 2010
A: "Isn't this great?"
B: "It's not bad."
In this context B disagrees with A's assessment of greatness. B thinks it's pretty good or average, but not great.
A: "Isn't this great?"
B: "It's not half bad"
In this context, B is much more in agreement with A that the thing is great.
posted by rocket88 at 7:31 AM on September 24, 2010
B: "It's not bad."
In this context B disagrees with A's assessment of greatness. B thinks it's pretty good or average, but not great.
A: "Isn't this great?"
B: "It's not half bad"
In this context, B is much more in agreement with A that the thing is great.
posted by rocket88 at 7:31 AM on September 24, 2010
Australian living in UK and I disagree with those sayign the Phrases are Interchangable.
I think there are nuanced differences.
"Not half bad" = good, better than expected.
"Not bad" however can have a range of meanings depending on Intonation ranging from Poor, Average, Passable, to relucatantly admitting its good.
posted by mary8nne at 7:34 AM on September 24, 2010
I think there are nuanced differences.
"Not half bad" = good, better than expected.
"Not bad" however can have a range of meanings depending on Intonation ranging from Poor, Average, Passable, to relucatantly admitting its good.
posted by mary8nne at 7:34 AM on September 24, 2010
(UK reader) Tone is important, if said while sounding surprised or impressed it carries the correct connotation.
If you are not a native speaker it might be easier to to recognise these for what they are - (double negatives) "that's not bad" -> "that's not not good" -> "that's good" - and stick to an easier to use, and less likely to be misunderstood, phrase and say "that's good"
posted by epo at 7:37 AM on September 24, 2010
If you are not a native speaker it might be easier to to recognise these for what they are - (double negatives) "that's not bad" -> "that's not not good" -> "that's good" - and stick to an easier to use, and less likely to be misunderstood, phrase and say "that's good"
posted by epo at 7:37 AM on September 24, 2010
In Canada at least, "not bad" is a very common response to "how are you?". I don't think " not half bad" would ever be used like that.
posted by Rumple at 7:39 AM on September 24, 2010
posted by Rumple at 7:39 AM on September 24, 2010
How much did that set you back?
Two hundred.
Not bad.
and
Wow! Brown sauce in tea is not half bad!
posted by Biru at 7:43 AM on September 24, 2010
Two hundred.
Not bad.
and
Wow! Brown sauce in tea is not half bad!
posted by Biru at 7:43 AM on September 24, 2010
UK usage is very different from the US here.
It helps to consider the way that the late DJ Alan "Fluff" Freeman used his enthusiastic catchphrase "Not 'Arf!". It's clear that he liked something "not by half"; that is, fully or entirely. The usage may be a little dated.
If something's described as "not bad" or "quite nice" in the UK, it means it's okay, but there's definitely room for improvement. My polite Midwestern in-laws describe things they really like as "quite nice", which really didn't go down well with me until the missus explained the difference in nuance.
posted by scruss at 8:11 AM on September 24, 2010
It helps to consider the way that the late DJ Alan "Fluff" Freeman used his enthusiastic catchphrase "Not 'Arf!". It's clear that he liked something "not by half"; that is, fully or entirely. The usage may be a little dated.
If something's described as "not bad" or "quite nice" in the UK, it means it's okay, but there's definitely room for improvement. My polite Midwestern in-laws describe things they really like as "quite nice", which really didn't go down well with me until the missus explained the difference in nuance.
posted by scruss at 8:11 AM on September 24, 2010
Inflection can make a huge difference in how "not bad" is interpreted. For example:
"What do you think of my new dress?"
"Hey, not bad!" (said with rising inflection) == the dress looks fantastic.
"What do you think of my new dress?"
"Um, it's not bad." (said with falling inflection) == You can probably do better.
"Not half bad," on the other hand, is virtually never negative, regardless of how it's inflected.
posted by KathrynT at 8:16 AM on September 24, 2010 [2 favorites]
"What do you think of my new dress?"
"Hey, not bad!" (said with rising inflection) == the dress looks fantastic.
"What do you think of my new dress?"
"Um, it's not bad." (said with falling inflection) == You can probably do better.
"Not half bad," on the other hand, is virtually never negative, regardless of how it's inflected.
posted by KathrynT at 8:16 AM on September 24, 2010 [2 favorites]
"Not bad" can be used in a wide range of contexts. It means something like "okay" in general, and depending on intonation & emphasis can extend from " barely passable" to "really pretty good".
"Not half bad" is used, where I am, in limited cases: when something is better than expected, and actually pretty good.
posted by mdn at 8:19 AM on September 24, 2010
"Not half bad" is used, where I am, in limited cases: when something is better than expected, and actually pretty good.
posted by mdn at 8:19 AM on September 24, 2010
"Not bad" in itself has two implications (at least where I have lived). Said in a flat tone, it implies "satisfactory". Said in a more rising, surprised tone, it has implications of "actually, that's rather good." "Not half bad" is more similar to the latter of these.
posted by Jabberwocky at 8:51 AM on September 24, 2010
posted by Jabberwocky at 8:51 AM on September 24, 2010
"Mizzuko's English is not bad."
(Meaning: Mizzuko's English is okay, but not great. She has more to learn to become good. This is more a statement of fact.)
"Mizzuko's English is not half bad!"
(Meaning: Mizzuko's English is good for someone who is learning. It is an exclamation, which means "not half bad" can mean "better than good" due to the enthusiasm associated with the comment. "Not half bad" can sometimes imply a higher level than "good" depending on the tone used. "Not half bad" is almost exclusively used in spoken English.)
posted by zizzle at 9:10 AM on September 24, 2010 [1 favorite]
(Meaning: Mizzuko's English is okay, but not great. She has more to learn to become good. This is more a statement of fact.)
"Mizzuko's English is not half bad!"
(Meaning: Mizzuko's English is good for someone who is learning. It is an exclamation, which means "not half bad" can mean "better than good" due to the enthusiasm associated with the comment. "Not half bad" can sometimes imply a higher level than "good" depending on the tone used. "Not half bad" is almost exclusively used in spoken English.)
posted by zizzle at 9:10 AM on September 24, 2010 [1 favorite]
I think a lot depends on the tone of voice, and the relationship between the people speaking.
At one extreme "not bad" is such slight praise as to be completely dismissive and hurtful. On the other hand if it's said between two people who have a warm relationship and in the right tone of voice, it can be high praise. ("Not bad my man, not bad at all.")
As for "not half bad"... I think that's primarily British English. And there what it usually means is "surprisingly good". That could mean that something you expected to be horrible turned out be actually quite good, or something that you expected to be moderately good was very good indeed.
posted by philipy at 9:57 AM on September 24, 2010 [1 favorite]
At one extreme "not bad" is such slight praise as to be completely dismissive and hurtful. On the other hand if it's said between two people who have a warm relationship and in the right tone of voice, it can be high praise. ("Not bad my man, not bad at all.")
As for "not half bad"... I think that's primarily British English. And there what it usually means is "surprisingly good". That could mean that something you expected to be horrible turned out be actually quite good, or something that you expected to be moderately good was very good indeed.
posted by philipy at 9:57 AM on September 24, 2010 [1 favorite]
I've lived in Canada, the UK, and the US. I agree that both expressions can imply a wide range of assessments depending on tone and context, and that "not half bad" implies surprise -- it's considerably better than you'd expected.
Both are colloquial, and both rely on understatement for their effect.
posted by tangerine at 2:29 PM on September 24, 2010
Both are colloquial, and both rely on understatement for their effect.
posted by tangerine at 2:29 PM on September 24, 2010
To my ear the subtext when you say "not half bad" is "prior to experiencing/seeing/tasting/trying this thing I gave it an equal 50/50 chance of it being good or bad based on my little prior experience with it, but afterwards I was pleasantly surprised and had to adjust my initial estimate toward the good end, thus it's not 50% bad, it's much less bad than good."
posted by Rhomboid at 3:32 PM on September 24, 2010
posted by Rhomboid at 3:32 PM on September 24, 2010
Response by poster: Thank you, I think I can get the nuance of each phrase by reading all opinions, although I don't think I can use them differently..!
posted by mizukko at 7:20 AM on September 27, 2010
posted by mizukko at 7:20 AM on September 27, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
"not half bad" means "good", but with the implication that this is a nice surprise or a little unexpected.
posted by caek at 3:30 AM on September 24, 2010 [11 favorites]