Don't look too good
July 16, 2010 4:33 PM Subscribe
Am I missing why this part of Kipling's 'If' represents an admirable quality?
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise;
The rest of the poem I can see (apart from not letting loving friends hurt you, but I at least understand what he's getting at there). Am I overthinking this? Is it just "don't be a smartass", or is there more to it?
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise;
The rest of the poem I can see (apart from not letting loving friends hurt you, but I at least understand what he's getting at there). Am I overthinking this? Is it just "don't be a smartass", or is there more to it?
Yeah, it's about being a braggart, and acting superior to others around you. Being full of yourself.
posted by ThatCanadianGirl at 4:47 PM on July 16, 2010
posted by ThatCanadianGirl at 4:47 PM on July 16, 2010
Best answer: It's "don't be an insufferable fuck."
posted by fairytale of los angeles at 5:08 PM on July 16, 2010 [12 favorites]
posted by fairytale of los angeles at 5:08 PM on July 16, 2010 [12 favorites]
Ditto on what has already been said.
The poem advocates for one to be calm, level-headed, humble, down-to-earth and grounded, especially in trying times.
posted by ericb at 5:09 PM on July 16, 2010
The poem advocates for one to be calm, level-headed, humble, down-to-earth and grounded, especially in trying times.
posted by ericb at 5:09 PM on July 16, 2010
"Don't act or look like an upper-class twit, prepie, pompous, sophomoric frat-boy asshole."
This isn't good advice?
posted by Some1 at 5:15 PM on July 16, 2010
This isn't good advice?
posted by Some1 at 5:15 PM on July 16, 2010
Being good and wise doesn't mean that you should try seek a reputation/appearance of being good and wise.
posted by fleacircus at 5:17 PM on July 16, 2010
posted by fleacircus at 5:17 PM on July 16, 2010
(I don't think "don't look to good" is talking about physcial attractiveness.)
posted by fleacircus at 5:19 PM on July 16, 2010
posted by fleacircus at 5:19 PM on July 16, 2010
too
posted by fleacircus at 5:19 PM on July 16, 2010
posted by fleacircus at 5:19 PM on July 16, 2010
I don't think he's saying "Don't be these things."
I think he's saying, "Don't place value on these things."
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 5:59 PM on July 16, 2010
I think he's saying, "Don't place value on these things."
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 5:59 PM on July 16, 2010
It's probably more of a British/English thing.
posted by Quantum's Deadly Fist at 6:02 PM on July 16, 2010
posted by Quantum's Deadly Fist at 6:02 PM on July 16, 2010
(I don't think "don't look to good" is talking about physcial attractiveness.)
I don't see why not, really. It can mean more than one thing at the same time, surely? And I can't but think that to a man of Kipling's era and turn of mind, being a dandy would be unmanly. It's still widely considered so.
posted by Diablevert at 6:09 PM on July 16, 2010
Am I missing why this part of Kipling's 'If' represents an admirable quality?
It isn't meant to represent an admirable quality. It's meant to warn you against the pursuit of admiration.
posted by bricoleur at 6:37 PM on July 16, 2010 [2 favorites]
It isn't meant to represent an admirable quality. It's meant to warn you against the pursuit of admiration.
posted by bricoleur at 6:37 PM on July 16, 2010 [2 favorites]
And similarly to what Diablevert said, don't be too cerebral. Being too smart leaves one open to being considered one of those frightfully clever foreign johnnies. One wouldn't want that, what!
posted by scruss at 8:10 PM on July 16, 2010
posted by scruss at 8:10 PM on July 16, 2010
Don't be smart. Be a beginner.
posted by unknowncommand at 10:08 PM on July 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by unknowncommand at 10:08 PM on July 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
Yes, vanity is a weakness indeed. But pride - where there is a real superiority of mind - pride will always be under good regulation.
Woops, I am being an insufferable fuck. And SCENE!
posted by Foam Pants at 12:20 AM on July 17, 2010
Woops, I am being an insufferable fuck. And SCENE!
posted by Foam Pants at 12:20 AM on July 17, 2010
Best answer: Keep in mind that Kipling's milieu and audience -- the people being given advice by this poem -- were middle class Britons, the colonial administrators of the Raj. Folks who had (outside the Army's "other ranks") pretty cushy positions lording it over "the Natives" but who weren't really anybody, who had no ancestry of note, back in England.
Kipling's telling these folks how to be solid middle cogs in the machinery of Empire. To be one who can take direction from a Lord and translate them into orders for Gunga Din: "If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue/ Or walk with Kings - nor lose the common touch".
And, "If you can wait and not be tired by waiting" to demonstrate the greatest virtue the English tried to teach those they ruled: how to queue.
posted by orthogonality at 2:21 AM on July 17, 2010 [4 favorites]
Kipling's telling these folks how to be solid middle cogs in the machinery of Empire. To be one who can take direction from a Lord and translate them into orders for Gunga Din: "If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue/ Or walk with Kings - nor lose the common touch".
And, "If you can wait and not be tired by waiting" to demonstrate the greatest virtue the English tried to teach those they ruled: how to queue.
posted by orthogonality at 2:21 AM on July 17, 2010 [4 favorites]
I suspect that you also need to read it in context with the rest of the stanza:
e.g. "I'm so great, I told you so. This is how this should be done, you were doing it wrong" is what you should not be doing.
Keep in mind that Kipling's milieu and audience -- the people being given advice by this poem -- were middle class Britons, the colonial administrators of the Raj. Folks who had (outside the Army's "other ranks") pretty cushy positions lording it over "the Natives" but who weren't really anybody, who had no ancestry of note, back in England.
It could also tie into this: if you're a young, bright, newly arrived in India graduate, mistrusted by the old guard who think you're an upstart: for God's sake, when you get something right, don't start telling them what to do and how great you are.
posted by djgh at 2:53 AM on July 17, 2010
IF you can keep your head when all about youi.e. if you can do all these great things in the face of doubt, opposition, nefarious persons and hate, don't come across all preachy and start laying down 'wisdom'.
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or being hated, don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise
e.g. "I'm so great, I told you so. This is how this should be done, you were doing it wrong" is what you should not be doing.
Keep in mind that Kipling's milieu and audience -- the people being given advice by this poem -- were middle class Britons, the colonial administrators of the Raj. Folks who had (outside the Army's "other ranks") pretty cushy positions lording it over "the Natives" but who weren't really anybody, who had no ancestry of note, back in England.
It could also tie into this: if you're a young, bright, newly arrived in India graduate, mistrusted by the old guard who think you're an upstart: for God's sake, when you get something right, don't start telling them what to do and how great you are.
posted by djgh at 2:53 AM on July 17, 2010
Actually, that's probably wrong. Looking at the poem as a whole, the last two lines are read in conjunction with one another:
posted by djgh at 2:56 AM on July 17, 2010
Or being hated, don't give way to hating,So don't give people hating you any more ammunition by being a sanctimonious prick.
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise
posted by djgh at 2:56 AM on July 17, 2010
"Don't look too good" wouldn't have been taken to refer to physical attributes at the time - 'looking good' to denote attractiveness rather than standing is more of an American English thing, and while common meaning over here now wasn't then.
Sorry, that sentence looks like mince.
posted by mippy at 6:12 AM on July 17, 2010
Sorry, that sentence looks like mince.
posted by mippy at 6:12 AM on July 17, 2010
But pride - where there is a real superiority of mind - pride will always be under good regulation.
Hey, Foam Pants, how's your sister? Been turned out yet?
posted by Diablevert at 2:04 PM on July 17, 2010
Hey, Foam Pants, how's your sister? Been turned out yet?
posted by Diablevert at 2:04 PM on July 17, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
He isn't saying don't be good looking and wise; he's saying don't be a show-off or a smart-aleck.
posted by reren at 4:41 PM on July 16, 2010