GhostS?
December 16, 2008 2:51 PM Subscribe
What are the circumstances in which it is OK/ethical/legal to use a ghost writer?
Ever since I can remember I have had more than an average number of ideas which I am other with whom I have shared them have found interesting (some are even fascinating) but I do not have the time or the personality to research them well and write them down (as articles or books). Also, English which I have good command over is not my first language. So far, the only benefit I derive out of these ideas is to be make interesting and engaging conversation on wide ranging topics.
As I grow older I cant escape the feeling that I am losing these ideas (other are publishing these my ideas) or they are simply getting lost in the sands of time. I dont want to lose them, I would like to use others to research and draft pieces which can be published in my name.
Is this ethical? How would one go about finding good writers? has anyone here used them? how much do they cost? How do you ensure discretion?
Ever since I can remember I have had more than an average number of ideas which I am other with whom I have shared them have found interesting (some are even fascinating) but I do not have the time or the personality to research them well and write them down (as articles or books). Also, English which I have good command over is not my first language. So far, the only benefit I derive out of these ideas is to be make interesting and engaging conversation on wide ranging topics.
As I grow older I cant escape the feeling that I am losing these ideas (other are publishing these my ideas) or they are simply getting lost in the sands of time. I dont want to lose them, I would like to use others to research and draft pieces which can be published in my name.
Is this ethical? How would one go about finding good writers? has anyone here used them? how much do they cost? How do you ensure discretion?
It's entirely ethical as long as you compensate the ghost writers for their time, talent, and effort, and they understand your demands that they remain anonymous and are comfortable with that restriction. Discretion isn't usually an issue -- people don't care as much as you might think they do unless you plan on using your status as a published author for another purpose (like, say, academia).
Really, though, there's no reason not to collaborate with a writer instead of just hiring one. The only people who benefit from ghost writers are celebrities and politicians, although lately the trend is more to give top billing to the name (Donald Trump, say) and then lesser billing to the writer (Meredith McIver, in Trump's case). Of course there are actual authors who use ghost writers, but often those are people who were once writers and now just farm out the work. That doesn't just happen in the publishing world -- that's a common occurrence among high level Hollywood screenwriters as well. Neither of those situations apply to you. To them, their singular name is the brand.
posted by incessant at 3:13 PM on December 16, 2008
Really, though, there's no reason not to collaborate with a writer instead of just hiring one. The only people who benefit from ghost writers are celebrities and politicians, although lately the trend is more to give top billing to the name (Donald Trump, say) and then lesser billing to the writer (Meredith McIver, in Trump's case). Of course there are actual authors who use ghost writers, but often those are people who were once writers and now just farm out the work. That doesn't just happen in the publishing world -- that's a common occurrence among high level Hollywood screenwriters as well. Neither of those situations apply to you. To them, their singular name is the brand.
posted by incessant at 3:13 PM on December 16, 2008
Word will eventually leak out. For instance, Shatner's science fiction novels were actually written by Bill Quick, we now know.
But Jon1270 has a good point: non-writers think that ideas are more valuable than they really are. Asimov wrote one time about how occasionally someone would come up to him and say, I have a really neat idea for a story. I'll give you the ideas and you write it up, and we'll share credit. Asimov's response was that it is the writing that is difficult. Everyone has ideas; ideas are easy and nearly always worthless.
What you need is a blog. The standards for writing and research are lower.
posted by Class Goat at 3:39 PM on December 16, 2008
But Jon1270 has a good point: non-writers think that ideas are more valuable than they really are. Asimov wrote one time about how occasionally someone would come up to him and say, I have a really neat idea for a story. I'll give you the ideas and you write it up, and we'll share credit. Asimov's response was that it is the writing that is difficult. Everyone has ideas; ideas are easy and nearly always worthless.
What you need is a blog. The standards for writing and research are lower.
posted by Class Goat at 3:39 PM on December 16, 2008
As I grow older I cant escape the feeling that I am losing these ideas (other are publishing these my ideas) or they are simply getting lost in the sands of time. I dont want to lose them
If you just want to ensure they get out into the world, start a blog. If you actually want to make money from them, see jon1270
posted by bonaldi at 4:41 PM on December 16, 2008
If you just want to ensure they get out into the world, start a blog. If you actually want to make money from them, see jon1270
posted by bonaldi at 4:41 PM on December 16, 2008
What are the circumstances in which it is OK/ethical/legal to use a ghost writer?
When you're Tom Clancy and your name is a "brand" of story telling.
posted by wfrgms at 4:57 PM on December 16, 2008
When you're Tom Clancy and your name is a "brand" of story telling.
posted by wfrgms at 4:57 PM on December 16, 2008
using a ghost writer is fine as long as you don't, say, try to use your book as a credential for teaching a writing course. they are used often for works of nonfiction--most often for celebrity autobiographies, books by politicians and businesspeople, and self-help books. another option is to use a co-writer, with the understanding that you will provide the ideas, and they will provide the sentence structure.
but writing books takes a lot of work--start by keeping a journal of ideas, and see if any themes emerge after a year. if so, and you have a lot of material, write a rough draft. doesn't matter how terrible your skills are. write it in your native tongue if necessary. if you have a book's worth of material after that, then start looking for a writer.
posted by thinkingwoman at 5:05 PM on December 16, 2008
but writing books takes a lot of work--start by keeping a journal of ideas, and see if any themes emerge after a year. if so, and you have a lot of material, write a rough draft. doesn't matter how terrible your skills are. write it in your native tongue if necessary. if you have a book's worth of material after that, then start looking for a writer.
posted by thinkingwoman at 5:05 PM on December 16, 2008
It's fine and there lots of people out there who'll do this for you.
I'd start on elance.com
posted by Xhris at 6:25 PM on December 16, 2008
I'd start on elance.com
posted by Xhris at 6:25 PM on December 16, 2008
I planned to not get involved in this discussion, but I'm going to give a different perspective on this topic, so here I go.... Over the last few years, I've done a lot of writing in a particular industry that I would essentially define as ghost writing at times. It is also far more pervasive than people realize; I have known people who wrote news letter articles that were supposedly written by CEO of a company and other people who wrote articles on the management of a therapeutic area for a medical journal that were atrributed to a leading specialist in the field.
There are points that I would define as ethical and unethical...but that may be because of what I've seen.
Here are some of guidelines that a few medical journals suggest -- if I were to be the true author of a manuscript (and employ a writer to help me), I would follow the ones outlined here:
--The "author" should write the first outline - it can even only have a few bullet points or be a page or 2 in length, but don't leave it up to the writer, believe me the writer may come up with all the ideas, including the final manuscript (then why are you even involved?)
--The "author" should review a draft or drafts of the manuscript critically and suggest revisions (if english is not your forte, just suggest changes for content or ideas).
--Acknowledge the writer somewhere in the manuscript -- you can have a sentence somewhere in the piece that states "We/I acknowledge the writing services of ______ in helping to prepare this manuscript." (I'll be honest, I am going to be acknowledged in several manuscripts -- and believe me, it will not take anything away from the author -- the authors on the paper were the ones who designed the study, collected data, etc, not me)
Be transparent about the entire process. In addition, if I were in your shoes and employed a writer,i'd follow those steps and keep documentation of everything (keep the first draft, dated, in hard copy and ecopy; keep the edits you made; etc.).
Also, you may not need to hire a writer. Alternatively, you could hire a copy editor to fix the grammar or hire a researcher to find information.
In addition, I do think a blog would be a great place to start--some people are able to reach thousands of people in this manner and the writing can be written in a casual, conversational tone. I also guarantee that some bloggers are hiring other writers, which may or may not be attributed to the person who "writes" the material. Finally, you really have no idea how well your ideas will be received -- do you want to invest all that time in a book and have it go from agent to agent for eternity?
Finally, where could you find ghost writers? First, decide information such as "what is the specialty" andf the type of writing that you want. Is it technical info? Self-help info? Academic style writing or writing that has a casual tone? Depending on what you want, you can google writer groups and see if they have a list of writers or even google your topic and the word writer -- several writers have web pages and some even say "ghost writing" as a service provided. You could even run an ad in craigslist. Be careful and request a sample and confirm that the person actually wrote it. In the ghost writing industry, some people have taken samples that other people wrote and said "I wrote this piece" while in actuality, it was another ghost writer.
posted by Wolfster at 6:26 PM on December 16, 2008
There are points that I would define as ethical and unethical...but that may be because of what I've seen.
Here are some of guidelines that a few medical journals suggest -- if I were to be the true author of a manuscript (and employ a writer to help me), I would follow the ones outlined here:
--The "author" should write the first outline - it can even only have a few bullet points or be a page or 2 in length, but don't leave it up to the writer, believe me the writer may come up with all the ideas, including the final manuscript (then why are you even involved?)
--The "author" should review a draft or drafts of the manuscript critically and suggest revisions (if english is not your forte, just suggest changes for content or ideas).
--Acknowledge the writer somewhere in the manuscript -- you can have a sentence somewhere in the piece that states "We/I acknowledge the writing services of ______ in helping to prepare this manuscript." (I'll be honest, I am going to be acknowledged in several manuscripts -- and believe me, it will not take anything away from the author -- the authors on the paper were the ones who designed the study, collected data, etc, not me)
Be transparent about the entire process. In addition, if I were in your shoes and employed a writer,i'd follow those steps and keep documentation of everything (keep the first draft, dated, in hard copy and ecopy; keep the edits you made; etc.).
Also, you may not need to hire a writer. Alternatively, you could hire a copy editor to fix the grammar or hire a researcher to find information.
In addition, I do think a blog would be a great place to start--some people are able to reach thousands of people in this manner and the writing can be written in a casual, conversational tone. I also guarantee that some bloggers are hiring other writers, which may or may not be attributed to the person who "writes" the material. Finally, you really have no idea how well your ideas will be received -- do you want to invest all that time in a book and have it go from agent to agent for eternity?
Finally, where could you find ghost writers? First, decide information such as "what is the specialty" andf the type of writing that you want. Is it technical info? Self-help info? Academic style writing or writing that has a casual tone? Depending on what you want, you can google writer groups and see if they have a list of writers or even google your topic and the word writer -- several writers have web pages and some even say "ghost writing" as a service provided. You could even run an ad in craigslist. Be careful and request a sample and confirm that the person actually wrote it. In the ghost writing industry, some people have taken samples that other people wrote and said "I wrote this piece" while in actuality, it was another ghost writer.
posted by Wolfster at 6:26 PM on December 16, 2008
This might sound a bit harsh, but I find that books written by ghost writers are often fairly average in quality. As jon1270 indicated, good intentions are only one part of the creative process - the other is individual action and plain hard work. Maybe this attitude is due to me working in the academic world rather than the publishing world. In the former, it would really constitute plagiarism to use someone else's words and claim them as your own.
Mind you, in the odd moment of curiosity / boredom, I have followed links to dodgy internet sites that virtually promised to write my entire dissertation. Of course, a thesis is only one type of writing, usually fairly technical and obtuse. But if the quality of those writers is anything to judge by, people who have any competence in that area are usually busy developing their own ideas. It is pretty rare for a student who pays for a pre-written essay to get a top grade, if you know what I mean.
I would suggest that your best bet is going down the "collaborative" route - finding amateur writers whose work you admire or whose creative vision you share, then seeing what you have to offer the partnership.
Good luck!
posted by Weng at 6:42 PM on December 16, 2008
Mind you, in the odd moment of curiosity / boredom, I have followed links to dodgy internet sites that virtually promised to write my entire dissertation. Of course, a thesis is only one type of writing, usually fairly technical and obtuse. But if the quality of those writers is anything to judge by, people who have any competence in that area are usually busy developing their own ideas. It is pretty rare for a student who pays for a pre-written essay to get a top grade, if you know what I mean.
I would suggest that your best bet is going down the "collaborative" route - finding amateur writers whose work you admire or whose creative vision you share, then seeing what you have to offer the partnership.
Good luck!
posted by Weng at 6:42 PM on December 16, 2008
I should add to the above, I am thinking of celebrity autobiographies and such - not familiar with ghost writing in the corporate / business world.
posted by Weng at 6:44 PM on December 16, 2008
posted by Weng at 6:44 PM on December 16, 2008
Ghostwriting is a long-standing tradition in many literary circles, especially those requiring a steady output of product...cartooning, for instance.
posted by Thorzdad at 4:30 AM on December 17, 2008
posted by Thorzdad at 4:30 AM on December 17, 2008
Response by poster: I didnt think my question is about relative value of idea vs. writing. I can completely understand that when I appreciate Love In The Time of Cholera I am appreciating the writing more than the idea but that is not the case when I appreciate say Blink or Freakonomics. Probably for that reason Levitt wont be up for a Nobel Prize in literature anytime soon.
I do not aspire to churn out literary classics in my name on the back of some anonymous struggling writer. My ambitions are much more modest, more in the direction of 'history of business practice' bordering on self help.
Thanks all. Specially Wolfster for an honest and informative perspective. Looks like what I need is combination of a junior researcher in my office and intensive copy editing help to organise the actual work.
Weng: Surely you are talking about the books you know are ghost written ;)
posted by london302 at 8:57 AM on December 17, 2008
I do not aspire to churn out literary classics in my name on the back of some anonymous struggling writer. My ambitions are much more modest, more in the direction of 'history of business practice' bordering on self help.
Thanks all. Specially Wolfster for an honest and informative perspective. Looks like what I need is combination of a junior researcher in my office and intensive copy editing help to organise the actual work.
Weng: Surely you are talking about the books you know are ghost written ;)
posted by london302 at 8:57 AM on December 17, 2008
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posted by jon1270 at 3:10 PM on December 16, 2008