Please NO GIFTS!!
April 11, 2024 11:37 AM Subscribe
In my cohort of white or white-adjacent urban/liberal I-don't-call-myself-rich-but-really-I-am parents, every single kid's (i.e toddlers) birthday party has a big disclaimer of "No Gifts!" Is this toddler thing, a rich person thing, an urban we don't have space thing, a cultural thing or a Millennial parent thing.
When i was growing up in a poor area in the 80s/90s every party you were expected to bring gifts and I was excited to get gifts. So far I've been to at least 10 infant/toddler parties and only one (my non white cousin, interestingly ) had a disclaimer of no gifts!). My theory is everyone has alot more toys etc now adays because the relative cost of material things is much less than it was 20-30 years ago.
When i was growing up in a poor area in the 80s/90s every party you were expected to bring gifts and I was excited to get gifts. So far I've been to at least 10 infant/toddler parties and only one (my non white cousin, interestingly ) had a disclaimer of no gifts!). My theory is everyone has alot more toys etc now adays because the relative cost of material things is much less than it was 20-30 years ago.
I grew up middle class in that area in the 70s... and as a child, I myself requested "No Gifts!" - simply because once I realized that some of my friends wouldn't or couldn't come because of it, I didn't want any. I wanted my friends.
posted by itsflyable at 11:49 AM on April 11 [27 favorites]
posted by itsflyable at 11:49 AM on April 11 [27 favorites]
I'm not a parent myself but I'm around them, and I've attended (or talked about) some of these parties.
It's a combination of these things, in varying proportions by the people in question. Some of the reasons directly cited by my friends and family:
* We already have too many toys
* We don't really trust all our guests to buy appropriate toys (ie, "we don't want toy guns" or "grandparents insist on buying noisy toys")
* Similar to above, just a strong desire to control what toys the kid gets
* Kid doesn't even play with all their current toys so this feels wasteful
* A lot less room for toys in small apartments
* They're literally a 1 year old and have no real concept of property or gifts, who cares
Also, now that it's "a thing," this opens the door for people who might like to ask for this, to ask for it. In other words in the 90s it would have been super weird for you to say no toys please even if you secretly wished you could; now that it's not super-weird, that opens the door for more to say it openly.
Some of these parents have also said they expect or intend to change this rule when the kid is older, for what it's worth, under the expectation that parties will be smaller but also that the kid in question will have meaningful opinions about what they like, and purchases are more aligned to their interests rather than "buying more junk nobody wants."
posted by Tomorrowful at 11:50 AM on April 11 [9 favorites]
It's a combination of these things, in varying proportions by the people in question. Some of the reasons directly cited by my friends and family:
* We already have too many toys
* We don't really trust all our guests to buy appropriate toys (ie, "we don't want toy guns" or "grandparents insist on buying noisy toys")
* Similar to above, just a strong desire to control what toys the kid gets
* Kid doesn't even play with all their current toys so this feels wasteful
* A lot less room for toys in small apartments
* They're literally a 1 year old and have no real concept of property or gifts, who cares
Also, now that it's "a thing," this opens the door for people who might like to ask for this, to ask for it. In other words in the 90s it would have been super weird for you to say no toys please even if you secretly wished you could; now that it's not super-weird, that opens the door for more to say it openly.
Some of these parents have also said they expect or intend to change this rule when the kid is older, for what it's worth, under the expectation that parties will be smaller but also that the kid in question will have meaningful opinions about what they like, and purchases are more aligned to their interests rather than "buying more junk nobody wants."
posted by Tomorrowful at 11:50 AM on April 11 [9 favorites]
"we have toddler crap coming out of our ears, please, your company is all we want"
posted by praemunire at 11:55 AM on April 11 [25 favorites]
posted by praemunire at 11:55 AM on April 11 [25 favorites]
We just had a no gift party for our four year old. We are indeed elder millennial parents:
(1) Our house is less than 800 square feet.
(2) Her birthday is a week after Christmas and she was absolutely flush with family gifts on both occasions.
(3) We invited her entire class to the party and I don't expect any of their parents to anticipate what my kid wants.
(4) She is still at the age where a dozen balloons was the highlight of her entire birthday.
(5) We expected despite the request, that she would still get gifts, and she did. Some of them were awesome homemade art from her friends.
When she's older and inviting just her friends to parties, we won't say no gifts, but when it's a group invite we truly don't want 20 random toys entering our household.
Etiquette has changed, in the US in general we are much more direct around gift-giving.
posted by muddgirl at 12:05 PM on April 11 [8 favorites]
(1) Our house is less than 800 square feet.
(2) Her birthday is a week after Christmas and she was absolutely flush with family gifts on both occasions.
(3) We invited her entire class to the party and I don't expect any of their parents to anticipate what my kid wants.
(4) She is still at the age where a dozen balloons was the highlight of her entire birthday.
(5) We expected despite the request, that she would still get gifts, and she did. Some of them were awesome homemade art from her friends.
When she's older and inviting just her friends to parties, we won't say no gifts, but when it's a group invite we truly don't want 20 random toys entering our household.
Etiquette has changed, in the US in general we are much more direct around gift-giving.
posted by muddgirl at 12:05 PM on April 11 [8 favorites]
Also when I was a kid I would get, like, a check for $5 from my grandparents for my birthday. Maybe a dollar for every year I was alive if I was lucky. I do think the elevated level of consumption of mass market goods means that kids now are inundated with gifts from all sides and at every holiday.
posted by muddgirl at 12:13 PM on April 11
posted by muddgirl at 12:13 PM on April 11
No one has done this in my kids' circle of friends but I really wish we did! My kids anyway already have all the toys they want so while they're excited about getting new presents they don't play with the majority of them because again, they already have all the toys they want. I also feel like there's present inflation or something because it used to be a $30 gift was good enough but now it's more like $50+. So we're all spending too much money on stuff the recipient doesn't particularly want or need.
I also think that since the lockdowns less kids are doing birthday parties or they're doing smaller ones. My younger kid is 9 and he's got a lot of friends but we've only had to take him to maybe 4 or 5 birthday parties this year. I'm not complaining about it though because birthdays used to be a real time sink. Maybe it's a reaction to what I was saying in the previous paragraph.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 12:26 PM on April 11 [1 favorite]
I also think that since the lockdowns less kids are doing birthday parties or they're doing smaller ones. My younger kid is 9 and he's got a lot of friends but we've only had to take him to maybe 4 or 5 birthday parties this year. I'm not complaining about it though because birthdays used to be a real time sink. Maybe it's a reaction to what I was saying in the previous paragraph.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 12:26 PM on April 11 [1 favorite]
A see it as a form of détente. “You don’t make me spend time figuring out a present for your kid, and I won’t make you spend time figuring out one for mine.”
Parents have enough on their plate without that little ritual.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 12:27 PM on April 11 [26 favorites]
Parents have enough on their plate without that little ritual.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 12:27 PM on April 11 [26 favorites]
Another factor I would add: both extended and nuclear families are trending smaller. In my case, my two children are the only grandchildren on either side so they receive the FULL FORCE of their grandparents' generosity, often along with their great-aunts and great-uncles because a lot of my cousins are not having children but their parents still want an excuse to buy little cute outfits and toys. Then all of a sudden my child has received several outfits, multiple board books, and lots and lots of toys along the lines of "oh it's just a little thing but I saw it and couldn't resist!" and they really add up fast.
Also there's a general feeling of embarrassment, like clearly we are doing fine, and my kids have a LOT, more than I ever did, and we do not need or want people to feel like they have to provide a gift to a child with a massive pile of toys. And even when you write "no gifts," there are still going to be several gifts.
But, this all only lasted until my children got to be around preschool age and began attending other birthday parties and observed other kids opening up a huge pile of gifts. After that, there was no going back.
posted by castlebravo at 12:27 PM on April 11 [3 favorites]
Also there's a general feeling of embarrassment, like clearly we are doing fine, and my kids have a LOT, more than I ever did, and we do not need or want people to feel like they have to provide a gift to a child with a massive pile of toys. And even when you write "no gifts," there are still going to be several gifts.
But, this all only lasted until my children got to be around preschool age and began attending other birthday parties and observed other kids opening up a huge pile of gifts. After that, there was no going back.
posted by castlebravo at 12:27 PM on April 11 [3 favorites]
In my experience, this is "we don't want you to think we're ASKING for presents, and don't feel bad if you can't bring one." But also, every "no gifts" party I've been to has involved many people bringing gifts and the kids being super happy to get gifts.
The net effect is that we still bring a gift, but first I have to figure out the right way to word a text message to confirm that they're also totally fine with it if we DID bring a gift.
posted by slidell at 12:33 PM on April 11 [2 favorites]
The net effect is that we still bring a gift, but first I have to figure out the right way to word a text message to confirm that they're also totally fine with it if we DID bring a gift.
posted by slidell at 12:33 PM on April 11 [2 favorites]
It's an urban liberal wealthy thing, especially among late Gen X & millennials (and maybe more, but this is where I've seen it). These adults often have parents with lots of disposable income who want to send all the things to their grandkids, so the kids already have lots of stuff, and it's quite possible the family is living in a place that doesn't have a ton of room.
My kids are a bit older now (late teens & early 20s), but we rarely if ever saw No Gifts for parties they attended, but we live in a lower socioeconomic neighborhood and they were attending parties more of working class folks and kids of color.
posted by bluedaisy at 12:35 PM on April 11 [1 favorite]
My kids are a bit older now (late teens & early 20s), but we rarely if ever saw No Gifts for parties they attended, but we live in a lower socioeconomic neighborhood and they were attending parties more of working class folks and kids of color.
posted by bluedaisy at 12:35 PM on April 11 [1 favorite]
Also! Let me throw something else into the mix. Is it the case that the toddler parties are also adult parties? Which is to say, the point is as much for adult friends to get together in addition to the kids? Perhaps the parents are inviting a big group of people, just a few toddler friends, so they really don't want (say) 30 people to bring presents to what's essentially a two year old's party.
posted by bluedaisy at 12:39 PM on April 11 [2 favorites]
posted by bluedaisy at 12:39 PM on April 11 [2 favorites]
Not exactly answering your question, but with the shift in culture around this, I find it interesting that at the time (80s-90s), often people bringing gifts was not just about the gift itself (I'm sure all the adults knew it wasn't a great gift), but for reasons similar to bringing a bottle of wine when visiting someone's home for dinner. As a guest, you were expected to bring something with you. It's a way to say "thank you" for hosting.
Not wanting more stuff, especially stuff your child won't use, stuff that takes up space, is understandable, but like most things in life, there is some give and take. Potentially what we lose is an easy way to materially say thank you to the hosts. Unless they are bringing the cake? I guess? Or drinks for the adults? (Yes, we can still say the words, but putting some effort and money into it in theory can show more caring than just mumbling "thank you.")
posted by Meldanthral at 12:39 PM on April 11
Not wanting more stuff, especially stuff your child won't use, stuff that takes up space, is understandable, but like most things in life, there is some give and take. Potentially what we lose is an easy way to materially say thank you to the hosts. Unless they are bringing the cake? I guess? Or drinks for the adults? (Yes, we can still say the words, but putting some effort and money into it in theory can show more caring than just mumbling "thank you.")
posted by Meldanthral at 12:39 PM on April 11
There were things we didn't want our kid to have, and we didn't want to explain what we wanted in detail, and didn't want a house full of other people's random wrong guesses. It very much had nothing to do with being wealthy.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 12:40 PM on April 11 [3 favorites]
posted by Sing Or Swim at 12:40 PM on April 11 [3 favorites]
WE JUST HAVE SO MUCH SHIT. Whatever the size of your house, the kid SHIT will fill it. Honestly, write a $25 check earmarked/memo'd to the 527/college account and call it a fucking day.
posted by atomicstone at 12:42 PM on April 11 [7 favorites]
posted by atomicstone at 12:42 PM on April 11 [7 favorites]
Best answer: My feeling is that expectations for kids' parties have grown more elaborate - when I myself was a child in the eighties, there weren't nearly as many "invite the whole class at/through school" parties, parties for very small children tended to be family-only and parties for older kids were smaller. I did go to a very cool whole-class party at a rich girl's house when I was about seven, and she had the biggest house I'd ever seen, and her mom was very nice. That might still be the biggest private house I've ever been in. I literally got lost on the way back from the spare bathroom.
But anyway - I think kids' parties are more of an obligation/regular thing now than they were, and so it makes sense that host gifts aren't expected in the same way.
posted by Frowner at 12:44 PM on April 11 [1 favorite]
But anyway - I think kids' parties are more of an obligation/regular thing now than they were, and so it makes sense that host gifts aren't expected in the same way.
posted by Frowner at 12:44 PM on April 11 [1 favorite]
A see it as a form of détente. “You don’t make me spend time figuring out a present for your kid, and I won’t make you spend time figuring out one for mine.”
Parents have enough on their plate without that little ritual.
This was a main reason for us throwing several parties like this back when our kids were little. The shopping is a pain and you have no idea what the kid already has. And at least in our community because of the chance of duplicates or buying something the kid wasn't into it was gauche to buy something from Amazon because gift receipts were expected.
I remember once going shopping a few hours before another kid's party and seeing two different parents who were doing the same thing. No joke - all three of us had the same football in our cart. At that point, what are we doing?
To offset the awkwardness of some people bringing gifts even to a "no gifts" party we let the kids pick a charity and suggested a donation there.
posted by AgentRocket at 12:45 PM on April 11 [5 favorites]
Parents have enough on their plate without that little ritual.
This was a main reason for us throwing several parties like this back when our kids were little. The shopping is a pain and you have no idea what the kid already has. And at least in our community because of the chance of duplicates or buying something the kid wasn't into it was gauche to buy something from Amazon because gift receipts were expected.
I remember once going shopping a few hours before another kid's party and seeing two different parents who were doing the same thing. No joke - all three of us had the same football in our cart. At that point, what are we doing?
To offset the awkwardness of some people bringing gifts even to a "no gifts" party we let the kids pick a charity and suggested a donation there.
posted by AgentRocket at 12:45 PM on April 11 [5 favorites]
When i was growing up in a poor area in the 80s/90s every party you were expected to bring gifts and I was excited to get gifts.
I grew up in a working-class family that had risen from absolute poverty in the 40s/50s to pretty respectable middle class stability in the 80s/90s. Relatives and especially parents went nuts on gift-giving, I think partly because they wanted to give the kids the ideal childhood they never had and partly because gift-giving was a way to show that they had "made it", for whatever value of "it" they were able to achieve.
In the demographic you're describing (and which to be fair, I'd probably be at the lower end of if I still lived in the US), the aspirational vision of an ideal childhood is more based around providing kids with the right educational and emotional support. There's still plenty of materialism but it's focused toward values of quality and safety rather than quantity and getting a quick "wow" from the kid. Couple that with all the parents being well off (and thus having nothing to prove to each other re: ability to buy a gift), and you can see why parents would rather curate a limited collection of toys for their kids rather than be flooded with a barrage of low quality stuff.
There's also the environmental angle, as lots of millennials feel tons of guilt about the fact that their old toys are now just lying in landfills.
posted by nanny's striped stocking at 12:49 PM on April 11 [5 favorites]
I grew up in a working-class family that had risen from absolute poverty in the 40s/50s to pretty respectable middle class stability in the 80s/90s. Relatives and especially parents went nuts on gift-giving, I think partly because they wanted to give the kids the ideal childhood they never had and partly because gift-giving was a way to show that they had "made it", for whatever value of "it" they were able to achieve.
In the demographic you're describing (and which to be fair, I'd probably be at the lower end of if I still lived in the US), the aspirational vision of an ideal childhood is more based around providing kids with the right educational and emotional support. There's still plenty of materialism but it's focused toward values of quality and safety rather than quantity and getting a quick "wow" from the kid. Couple that with all the parents being well off (and thus having nothing to prove to each other re: ability to buy a gift), and you can see why parents would rather curate a limited collection of toys for their kids rather than be flooded with a barrage of low quality stuff.
There's also the environmental angle, as lots of millennials feel tons of guilt about the fact that their old toys are now just lying in landfills.
posted by nanny's striped stocking at 12:49 PM on April 11 [5 favorites]
A books party is a nice solution to this even if you get 5 of the same book.
Anyways, Gen X parent here who wishes we could have done this. As the parents of the youngest cousins of our generation, our home became the dumping ground for 7 families’ hand-me-down toys, especially Lego, Duplo, Playmobile, and Brio. At one point my asthmatic child had 22 stuffies. Why we had to be the redistribution centre for lifetimes of plastic…generous but also it really felt overwhelming.
Basically were just drowning in stuff at the time. This abruptly dried up around age 12.
posted by warriorqueen at 12:52 PM on April 11 [6 favorites]
Anyways, Gen X parent here who wishes we could have done this. As the parents of the youngest cousins of our generation, our home became the dumping ground for 7 families’ hand-me-down toys, especially Lego, Duplo, Playmobile, and Brio. At one point my asthmatic child had 22 stuffies. Why we had to be the redistribution centre for lifetimes of plastic…generous but also it really felt overwhelming.
Basically were just drowning in stuff at the time. This abruptly dried up around age 12.
posted by warriorqueen at 12:52 PM on April 11 [6 favorites]
expectations for kids' parties have grown more elaborate
Just adding - also more inclusive. The rule is if the invitations go out at school/daycare, you invite the whole class so no one is left out. Once you’re inviting your child’s entire possible social circle, the stakes start to feel high.
posted by warriorqueen at 12:54 PM on April 11 [4 favorites]
Just adding - also more inclusive. The rule is if the invitations go out at school/daycare, you invite the whole class so no one is left out. Once you’re inviting your child’s entire possible social circle, the stakes start to feel high.
posted by warriorqueen at 12:54 PM on April 11 [4 favorites]
We Gen-xers have been doing this since late in the Bush (II) administration; at least it was the standard in our I-don't-call-myself-rich-but-really-I-am (a phrase I will be stealing) urban neighborhood, where most people have more money than space. The request was honored by about 90 percent of the parents.
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 12:55 PM on April 11 [1 favorite]
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 12:55 PM on April 11 [1 favorite]
I think another factor that contributes to the "drowning in stuff" issue is that toys (and kids' goods more generally) have been seeing negative inflation for most of the past 40 years. Kids get more stuff because kids' stuff is incredibly cheap to buy. Like, forget about fast fashion, cheap toys for kids exist on a scale never before seen.
posted by mskyle at 1:39 PM on April 11 [8 favorites]
posted by mskyle at 1:39 PM on April 11 [8 favorites]
As a parent, toys are bizarrely cheap, at least for small kids. Stuffed animals are often given away free. We did please no gifts parties, and I meant it. My wife won't let me, but I would literally shovel tons of my kids toys straight into the garbage if I could. Goodwill? They give away trash bags full of kids' toys for $5. Do my kids even play with most of them? No.
posted by The_Vegetables at 1:49 PM on April 11 [8 favorites]
posted by The_Vegetables at 1:49 PM on April 11 [8 favorites]
The reason I said "no gifts" when my kids were small was because it was financially onerous for ME to buy gifts for their random friends. I live in a wealthier area and that was probably not true for any of the families who were invited, but I was conscious of it and didn't want others to have to wince like I did at the price tag for a random party.
(Most people ignored it and brought gifts anyway.)
posted by metasarah at 1:52 PM on April 11
(Most people ignored it and brought gifts anyway.)
posted by metasarah at 1:52 PM on April 11
Honestly, I think it's a this-kid-has-way-too-much-crap-as-it-is and he doesn't play with half of it and I don't want more plastic shit in my house and if you are the least bit sketchy you might give us something that requires batteries and makes an obnoxious amount of noise, so please and thank you no.
posted by tafetta, darling! at 1:57 PM on April 11 [3 favorites]
posted by tafetta, darling! at 1:57 PM on April 11 [3 favorites]
my memory of my kiddo at 1 or 2 was that the box or wrapping paper was usually more interesting than the toy. between hand-me-downs from other parents and whatever we gave kiddo, in an nyc apartment there was just no need for more stuff.
posted by kokaku at 2:27 PM on April 11 [2 favorites]
posted by kokaku at 2:27 PM on April 11 [2 favorites]
I remember a couple of weird Christian sect kids in my elementary school had parties but all the gifts that were brought got randomly redistributed at the end of the party as kids were leaving. (actually kind of cool: they had a ribboned balloon attached, and were hidden behind something, so you picked a balloon on the way out). My mom thought that was weird and refused to let me take something.
Book parties are pretty great, and much more appreciated when donated to churches and whatnot.
I always thought it would be sweet to say 'no gifts, but kid-created birthday cards/pictures always welcome' but I don't have kids and maybe that's its own special hell.
posted by ApathyGirl at 2:30 PM on April 11 [4 favorites]
Book parties are pretty great, and much more appreciated when donated to churches and whatnot.
I always thought it would be sweet to say 'no gifts, but kid-created birthday cards/pictures always welcome' but I don't have kids and maybe that's its own special hell.
posted by ApathyGirl at 2:30 PM on April 11 [4 favorites]
Best answer: A see it as a form of détente. “You don’t make me spend time figuring out a present for your kid, and I won’t make you spend time figuring out one for mine.”
I think it also negates the now-seemingly-obligatory gift bags for all the other kids attending. If no one brings gifts, they needn't leave with gifts, either. I'm not sure when that little "participant ribbon" move started, but it's really evil.
posted by Thorzdad at 3:01 PM on April 11 [2 favorites]
I think it also negates the now-seemingly-obligatory gift bags for all the other kids attending. If no one brings gifts, they needn't leave with gifts, either. I'm not sure when that little "participant ribbon" move started, but it's really evil.
posted by Thorzdad at 3:01 PM on April 11 [2 favorites]
For me, it's an "I only know 2 people who give thoughtful gifts and you ain't them" thing.
There is simply too much crap in the world and having more of it in my house depresses me.
posted by dobbs at 3:05 PM on April 11 [1 favorite]
There is simply too much crap in the world and having more of it in my house depresses me.
posted by dobbs at 3:05 PM on April 11 [1 favorite]
My kid is swimming in crap. Stuff just doesn't mean what it used to...I'm an elder millennial who grew up in rural Canada, and gifts meant something from the city that I had never ever seen before! Now anything you could imagine is at our finger tips...
posted by stray at 3:07 PM on April 11 [5 favorites]
posted by stray at 3:07 PM on April 11 [5 favorites]
I wonder too if declining family sizes among that general population contributes to this. A classmate's party we attended that not only didn't say "no gifts" but actually suggested that the kid liked Barbie resulted in an absolute avalanche of dolls, but the family just laughed and passed out the more generic and/or duplicate ones amongst similarly-aged cousins and all was well. Meanwhile almost everyone I know who's an only child with an only child desperately does not want More Stuff because what are you even supposed to do with it??, and I'm right there with them.
posted by teremala at 3:31 PM on April 11
posted by teremala at 3:31 PM on April 11
We are white urban people who can afford to buy kids gifts BUT we did do this when our kid was maybe under 4. He had no concept of gifts and we were often inviting adults and didn't want them to feel obligated to buy him things. Once he got older, I think we tried it once but people brought gifts anyway. He's 11 now and I think he would think we ruined his life if we said No Gifts. Gifts range from a pack of Pokemon cards to a $10 ice cream gift card to a board game. We all get invited to so many, no one spends more then $10-$20.
posted by jdl at 3:49 PM on April 11
posted by jdl at 3:49 PM on April 11
I think it's largely a control/curation thing. When my daughter was younger, it was socially understood that kids played with whatever they got whether you liked it or not. Now, there's much more of a 'My kid plays only with the toys that will bring about the values I wish them to have' kind of vibe, and nobody trusts anyone else to know what that is because let's face it it's unknowable.
I'll say from my own cultural background, though, I find 'no gift' parties kind of weird and offputting and uncomfortable for me and I'm really glad I don't have a young kid right now. I don't think I would be able to attend one just due to the social discomfort, and I would have a difficult time becoming friends with parents who threw one - I just wouldn't feel very welcome.
posted by corb at 5:25 PM on April 11
I'll say from my own cultural background, though, I find 'no gift' parties kind of weird and offputting and uncomfortable for me and I'm really glad I don't have a young kid right now. I don't think I would be able to attend one just due to the social discomfort, and I would have a difficult time becoming friends with parents who threw one - I just wouldn't feel very welcome.
posted by corb at 5:25 PM on April 11
In the Wharton/Post/Manners structure, you couldn’t say "No gifts" because (a) you can’t tell other people what to do, especially your guests and (b) you never expected a gift, even at your wedding* BUT (c) this system worked a lot better when everyone involved was pretty tightly acquainted and there was a lot of back channel communication, including social pushback on giving too much.
I think this was fine where all its pieces were operating, way better than deadweight consumerism, but the pieces are not all operating in most places now.
* your mortal and sublunary self did; your sublime polite self didn’t.
posted by clew at 9:45 PM on April 11 [1 favorite]
I think this was fine where all its pieces were operating, way better than deadweight consumerism, but the pieces are not all operating in most places now.
* your mortal and sublunary self did; your sublime polite self didn’t.
posted by clew at 9:45 PM on April 11 [1 favorite]
I think corb's comment is interesting because the "no gifts" thing feels like it is meant to be inclusive. If it's not, it's exclusive in a way that I find difficult to understand.
We live in what could be a postcard version of what the OP described--a mostly white, liberal, urban (but technically suburban) college town. But, maybe because we are a college town, we are more diverse than our reputation would suggest.
Our daughter just turned four and we just had a party with her daycare classmates last weekend. It wasn't elaborate. It was in a park and we ordered pizza. We had a theme which didn't mean more than matching paper plates and napkins, and no activities besides the trunkful of toys I gathered at the last minute. Of course we said no gifts.
No gifts meant one less thing for busy parents to worry about. Not one of our daughter's classmate has a stay-at-home parent (they wouldn't be in daycare if they did). Nobody had to guess our social situation and wonder what sort of gift would be appropriate--not the professionals who make more than us, not the academics here on visas, not the single parents, not the Gen Zers with their pink hair, not our daughter's former daycare teacher whose son happens to be in her class. It's not a values thing. I wouldn't expect anyone to give our daughter a toy gun or a toddler-sized MAGA hat. It's more of a "don't worry yourself about our values" thing. We're fine. If we had more toys than you could imagine, we have a problem. If we had a fifth of the toys that you think we might have, we're still doing fine. Toys are cheap and abundant. The Goodwill is five minutes away and yard sales are bountiful. Our kid likes your kid, and that's enough.
posted by hydrophonic at 10:40 PM on April 11 [11 favorites]
We live in what could be a postcard version of what the OP described--a mostly white, liberal, urban (but technically suburban) college town. But, maybe because we are a college town, we are more diverse than our reputation would suggest.
Our daughter just turned four and we just had a party with her daycare classmates last weekend. It wasn't elaborate. It was in a park and we ordered pizza. We had a theme which didn't mean more than matching paper plates and napkins, and no activities besides the trunkful of toys I gathered at the last minute. Of course we said no gifts.
No gifts meant one less thing for busy parents to worry about. Not one of our daughter's classmate has a stay-at-home parent (they wouldn't be in daycare if they did). Nobody had to guess our social situation and wonder what sort of gift would be appropriate--not the professionals who make more than us, not the academics here on visas, not the single parents, not the Gen Zers with their pink hair, not our daughter's former daycare teacher whose son happens to be in her class. It's not a values thing. I wouldn't expect anyone to give our daughter a toy gun or a toddler-sized MAGA hat. It's more of a "don't worry yourself about our values" thing. We're fine. If we had more toys than you could imagine, we have a problem. If we had a fifth of the toys that you think we might have, we're still doing fine. Toys are cheap and abundant. The Goodwill is five minutes away and yard sales are bountiful. Our kid likes your kid, and that's enough.
posted by hydrophonic at 10:40 PM on April 11 [11 favorites]
When this was happening regularly in my sphere there was also an anti-consumption angle, along with genuine concurrence amongst the parents of the kids who tended to party together that having the kids get together and play was really the point and all that was needed. These were mostly but not all white, educated, progressive, not-rich-but-not-working class Millennials who had kids in a small, pretty down-to-earth Montessori daycare.
Definitely concur with not wanting to put other parents in the position of having to shop for something perfunctory that the kid likely as not wouldn't care about (damn, Kids These Days are hard to impress?!), not wanting to have to do that myself, and not wanting a) extra crap or b) to have to deal with rehoming or throwing away said crap after the fact.
(As an aside, we went to one gifts party during which all the action stopped and everyone was supposed to sit in a circle around the kid and watch her open the presents and I was shocked at how crass it seemed. I don't know how common that is, and I assume it makes its own (Southern?) cultural sense, perhaps as a way for everyone to appreciate the gifts publicly, but I remember present opening being a post-party thing in my youth and never imagined that it would be otherwise.)
posted by wormtales at 4:24 AM on April 12
Definitely concur with not wanting to put other parents in the position of having to shop for something perfunctory that the kid likely as not wouldn't care about (damn, Kids These Days are hard to impress?!), not wanting to have to do that myself, and not wanting a) extra crap or b) to have to deal with rehoming or throwing away said crap after the fact.
(As an aside, we went to one gifts party during which all the action stopped and everyone was supposed to sit in a circle around the kid and watch her open the presents and I was shocked at how crass it seemed. I don't know how common that is, and I assume it makes its own (Southern?) cultural sense, perhaps as a way for everyone to appreciate the gifts publicly, but I remember present opening being a post-party thing in my youth and never imagined that it would be otherwise.)
posted by wormtales at 4:24 AM on April 12
I think corb's comment is interesting because the "no gifts" thing feels like it is meant to be inclusive. If it's not, it's exclusive in a way that I find difficult to understand.
So my positionality is as a working class woman of color who could not afford to buy my kid a lot of cool presents when I was younger, but who comes from a culture where gift giving and acceptance of gifts is how you show hospitality. So yes, birthday parties meant buying a gift, but there weren't *that* many of them *that* close together, and I can't imagine it's increased now that the fertility rates are down. But bringing a gift meant being a part of the reciprocal community. Even if the gift was just a token, a small thing, a very inexpensive gift carefully chosen, the bringing it and the acceptance of it was a thread tying us into that person and creating community with them, just like bringing or receiving food would have been.
"No gifts, but please bring X if you can (your favorite dish! so delicious!)" would read differently to me: it would read as a genuine lack of desire for gifts, but still providing another way to contribute and be in community with that person and that family. "Gifts welcome but not expected" would read differently, it would read to me as 'We want to be in community with you but don't want you to feel excluded if you are temporarily financially embarrassed". But at least to me, "No gifts" reads as, "I don't view you as a part of my community: I am willing to play Lady Bountiful and to host you and to use your children to make my child feel happy, but I am not willing to accept your help in any way whatsoever and do not want to build ties of community with you: you have nothing of value to offer me." I would view it as an insult.
This might also just be a white upper class cultural thing, too - I've noticed since recently getting to law school a *stark* difference in how the students of color here socialize and how the white ones do. It could be that the expectation of upper class white people is that 'we're all doing well and we have no need to help each other', so it's not meant as an insult to reject help. But it still rubs me the wrong way.
posted by corb at 4:29 AM on April 12 [14 favorites]
So my positionality is as a working class woman of color who could not afford to buy my kid a lot of cool presents when I was younger, but who comes from a culture where gift giving and acceptance of gifts is how you show hospitality. So yes, birthday parties meant buying a gift, but there weren't *that* many of them *that* close together, and I can't imagine it's increased now that the fertility rates are down. But bringing a gift meant being a part of the reciprocal community. Even if the gift was just a token, a small thing, a very inexpensive gift carefully chosen, the bringing it and the acceptance of it was a thread tying us into that person and creating community with them, just like bringing or receiving food would have been.
"No gifts, but please bring X if you can (your favorite dish! so delicious!)" would read differently to me: it would read as a genuine lack of desire for gifts, but still providing another way to contribute and be in community with that person and that family. "Gifts welcome but not expected" would read differently, it would read to me as 'We want to be in community with you but don't want you to feel excluded if you are temporarily financially embarrassed". But at least to me, "No gifts" reads as, "I don't view you as a part of my community: I am willing to play Lady Bountiful and to host you and to use your children to make my child feel happy, but I am not willing to accept your help in any way whatsoever and do not want to build ties of community with you: you have nothing of value to offer me." I would view it as an insult.
This might also just be a white upper class cultural thing, too - I've noticed since recently getting to law school a *stark* difference in how the students of color here socialize and how the white ones do. It could be that the expectation of upper class white people is that 'we're all doing well and we have no need to help each other', so it's not meant as an insult to reject help. But it still rubs me the wrong way.
posted by corb at 4:29 AM on April 12 [14 favorites]
We did this for behavioral reasons; I saw a lot of horrendous behavior from kids while presents were opened, and my kid tended to sensory overwhelm at the best of times to the point where we didn’t even do the standard Christmas gift opening but spread it out over a few days.
However, as a guest, I felt much like corb (white, raised working class, upwardly mobile and awkward with that culture). I can’t remember the exact phrasing now but we encouraged (but didn’t require) cards, drawings, etc from the kids. My kid taped them up in his room and felt more love than he would from some Lego, and the parents and kids got to feel like part of a community if they chose to. That was what we did at no gift parties; a birthday drawing and perhaps a fancy pen or stickers, truly a token.
posted by tchemgrrl at 5:26 AM on April 12 [2 favorites]
However, as a guest, I felt much like corb (white, raised working class, upwardly mobile and awkward with that culture). I can’t remember the exact phrasing now but we encouraged (but didn’t require) cards, drawings, etc from the kids. My kid taped them up in his room and felt more love than he would from some Lego, and the parents and kids got to feel like part of a community if they chose to. That was what we did at no gift parties; a birthday drawing and perhaps a fancy pen or stickers, truly a token.
posted by tchemgrrl at 5:26 AM on April 12 [2 favorites]
As an aside, we went to one gifts party during which all the action stopped and everyone was supposed to sit in a circle around the kid and watch her open the presents and I was shocked at how crass it seemed. I don't know how common that is, and I assume it makes its own (Southern?) cultural sense, perhaps as a way for everyone to appreciate the gifts publicly, but I remember present opening being a post-party thing in my youth and never imagined that it would be otherwise.
All birthday parties when I was a kid were like this. (rural, Northern, 1970s) The present-opening was part of the ritual. I think the idea was to instruct medium-young kids (not toddlers, but say age 3 - 7) in the process of giving and receiving gifts (for the giver: choosing a gift based on knowledge of the friend and being willing to let the thing go; for the recipient: politely thanking the giver and not saying "I don't like it!" or "I already have one!") But parties were a lot smaller in those days (a rule of thumb was kid's age plus 1 = number of guests) so it wasn't interminable like it would be with 20 kids, plus it was the kid's actual friends so the parents didn't have to blindly guess what the kid might like.
posted by Daily Alice at 7:16 AM on April 12 [7 favorites]
All birthday parties when I was a kid were like this. (rural, Northern, 1970s) The present-opening was part of the ritual. I think the idea was to instruct medium-young kids (not toddlers, but say age 3 - 7) in the process of giving and receiving gifts (for the giver: choosing a gift based on knowledge of the friend and being willing to let the thing go; for the recipient: politely thanking the giver and not saying "I don't like it!" or "I already have one!") But parties were a lot smaller in those days (a rule of thumb was kid's age plus 1 = number of guests) so it wasn't interminable like it would be with 20 kids, plus it was the kid's actual friends so the parents didn't have to blindly guess what the kid might like.
posted by Daily Alice at 7:16 AM on April 12 [7 favorites]
For us (not white but living in the sort of area you describe), we have one kid and way too many toys already. There are no siblings or even cousins close by to pass them down to. How did we get all these toys? Amazon is a click away and having so little of a barrier to obtaining something we think she will like -- and it's not just the cost but also the convenience -- just creates an abundance no matter how much we try to keep it down. And often, people bring gifts for our kid when they visit us for dinner or when they stay over, even when we hint against it.
Neither the Amazon abundance nor the habit of adults bringing gifts on visits was the case for me growing up.
I really quite like the no-gifts convention. Yeah, it was fun getting presents as a kid, but many would be duplicates and we would regift them anyway. I don't think I derived so much joy from it that I feel bad about depriving my kid of that experience.
posted by redlines at 7:35 AM on April 13
Neither the Amazon abundance nor the habit of adults bringing gifts on visits was the case for me growing up.
I really quite like the no-gifts convention. Yeah, it was fun getting presents as a kid, but many would be duplicates and we would regift them anyway. I don't think I derived so much joy from it that I feel bad about depriving my kid of that experience.
posted by redlines at 7:35 AM on April 13
I mean, we're GenX, I'm mixed, and we were broke in the late 90s/early 2000s when we had kids so the reasons may have drifted from ours, but we did NO GIFTS for some events because... people are really, really bad at choosing gifts for small children. Like, spectacularly bad. Realistically, about 70% of all gifts ever given to my kids under the age of, I dunno, 16? were pretty much trash that was never touched again after being unwrapped.
There are many, many people who just had no idea whatsoever what our kids want, need, or give a shit about even after knowing them intimately for their whole lives. The space thing factored into it a little to an extent, but that's more because Junk Nobody Wanted In The First Place puts a crimp on any level of space, even space that's only a bit cramped.
posted by majick at 4:53 PM on April 13
There are many, many people who just had no idea whatsoever what our kids want, need, or give a shit about even after knowing them intimately for their whole lives. The space thing factored into it a little to an extent, but that's more because Junk Nobody Wanted In The First Place puts a crimp on any level of space, even space that's only a bit cramped.
posted by majick at 4:53 PM on April 13
I've been everywhere from very-low middle class to solidly middle middle class since I had kids, and I've always insisted on no gifts for kids' birthday parties. Why? Because we don't need crappy plastic junk, thank you.
It's interesting to me that people are generally super respectful about adult birthdays - people give flowers or gift cards or booze or other such consumables, and people understand it's hella disrespectful to be foisting a $15 toaster on you on the occasion of your 40th birthday without checking to make sure you actually need one! But those very same folks will think nothing of shoving a $5 stuffed doll from some unidentifiable (or copycat) toy franchise into a $3 gift bag and handing it as a present to a child who is turning 10. Giving junk to kids is apparently socially acceptable.
Having to insist on "no gifts please" for this reason is an American thing, IME. In all three Asian countries that I've lived in, birthday gifts are understood by all to mean "cash in an envelope" and that's always welcome! Everyone in my circles in those three Asian countries seemed to know without having to be told that crappy plastic toys are a total waste, and wastefulness is MUCH more of a sin in those cultures than it is in USA.
posted by MiraK at 1:07 PM on April 15
It's interesting to me that people are generally super respectful about adult birthdays - people give flowers or gift cards or booze or other such consumables, and people understand it's hella disrespectful to be foisting a $15 toaster on you on the occasion of your 40th birthday without checking to make sure you actually need one! But those very same folks will think nothing of shoving a $5 stuffed doll from some unidentifiable (or copycat) toy franchise into a $3 gift bag and handing it as a present to a child who is turning 10. Giving junk to kids is apparently socially acceptable.
Having to insist on "no gifts please" for this reason is an American thing, IME. In all three Asian countries that I've lived in, birthday gifts are understood by all to mean "cash in an envelope" and that's always welcome! Everyone in my circles in those three Asian countries seemed to know without having to be told that crappy plastic toys are a total waste, and wastefulness is MUCH more of a sin in those cultures than it is in USA.
posted by MiraK at 1:07 PM on April 15
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posted by mhoye at 11:47 AM on April 11 [51 favorites]