Who is offended by "Happy Holidays"?
December 7, 2004 2:16 AM Subscribe
Ok, who is offended by "Happy Holidays" replacing "Merry Christmas"? If you are, could you please give reason why? I'm trying to understand the mentality here, and not celebrating Christmas myself (well, other than getting a federal holiday out of it) I can't see the reason why anyone would.
It's stupid. This Jew WANTS Christmas (I get observer status). And while we're at it, please, please, please, phase out that "Ch" holiday as a parallel Christmas...
posted by ParisParamus at 3:37 AM on December 7, 2004
posted by ParisParamus at 3:37 AM on December 7, 2004
first of all, i'm english, and - at least when i left a few years ago - "happy holidays" isn't used much there.
second, i don't mind what people call it. however, i was offended when i wished someone "happy christmas" at a work's christmas party and they froze me out with "i don't celebrate christmas - i'm not a christian". well, neither am i. but if you live in a culture where people use that word and go to the freaking christmas party, fer crissakes, you should take it in good grace.
as an atheist, i'm no more offended by "merry christmas" than i am by "bless you" if i sneeze. and "happy holidays" is only objectionable because it's another bit of americanism.
posted by andrew cooke at 3:39 AM on December 7, 2004
second, i don't mind what people call it. however, i was offended when i wished someone "happy christmas" at a work's christmas party and they froze me out with "i don't celebrate christmas - i'm not a christian". well, neither am i. but if you live in a culture where people use that word and go to the freaking christmas party, fer crissakes, you should take it in good grace.
as an atheist, i'm no more offended by "merry christmas" than i am by "bless you" if i sneeze. and "happy holidays" is only objectionable because it's another bit of americanism.
posted by andrew cooke at 3:39 AM on December 7, 2004
I'm not a christian, I don't celebrate Xmas in any religiously significant way(I've never even attended a church service), but I can totally see how this would piss people off. It's a christian holiday. No Christ, no christmas, no holiday. Maybe it's a holiday from work/school for everyone but it's basis is christian. When they put up signs exclusively saying 'Happy Holidays' it bleaches it of it's religious origin and significance. The USA is a christian country, with strong christian origins. Why try to deny that?
It's saying, 'yeah we'll celebrate your holiday, just leave out all that god stuff will ya'. Having said that, I don't think it should cause much offense if they put up both types of sign.
posted by isthisthingon at 3:42 AM on December 7, 2004
It's saying, 'yeah we'll celebrate your holiday, just leave out all that god stuff will ya'. Having said that, I don't think it should cause much offense if they put up both types of sign.
posted by isthisthingon at 3:42 AM on December 7, 2004
(and having read your links - i have to say, what a sad bunch of tossers - i hope that my views above aren't taken as support for those people)
posted by andrew cooke at 3:42 AM on December 7, 2004
posted by andrew cooke at 3:42 AM on December 7, 2004
I celebrate Jul, so bonus points to anyone that says "Merry Yule" or similar to me, which everyone around here does, since hey we speak Danish here. However, if I'm in an English speaking counry and hear "Merry Christmas" I am not in the least offended, even though Happy Holidays is more 'true'. If that uh.. answers the question. ;)
posted by dabitch at 3:51 AM on December 7, 2004
posted by dabitch at 3:51 AM on December 7, 2004
I think people are also offended/irritated because "happy holidays" has arisen in conjunction with the secularization of Jesus's birth, a major Christian traditional holiday.
My grandmother always gives me one of those "Jesus is the Reason for the Season" Christmas cards, and even though I'm not born again like she is, I'm starting to get it - This used to be a time where families got together to tell stories, sing songs, fight off the cold and the dark of the winter solstice through community. Different communities attached different religious ceremonies to it, but the point was to be together and enjoy each other. Now we just say Happy Holidays! and drive around in traffic and the dark after work looking for presents for our bosses and other assorted acquaintances.
Happy Holidays seems somehow more tied to our modern consumerist lonely little lives than an outright expression of faith and tradition like Merry Christmas or Happy Hanukkah. Those who are offended by it are probably in some way expressing a yearning for their old traditions and communities.
Or they could just be people who need to get a real problem.
posted by pomegranate at 4:03 AM on December 7, 2004 [1 favorite]
My grandmother always gives me one of those "Jesus is the Reason for the Season" Christmas cards, and even though I'm not born again like she is, I'm starting to get it - This used to be a time where families got together to tell stories, sing songs, fight off the cold and the dark of the winter solstice through community. Different communities attached different religious ceremonies to it, but the point was to be together and enjoy each other. Now we just say Happy Holidays! and drive around in traffic and the dark after work looking for presents for our bosses and other assorted acquaintances.
Happy Holidays seems somehow more tied to our modern consumerist lonely little lives than an outright expression of faith and tradition like Merry Christmas or Happy Hanukkah. Those who are offended by it are probably in some way expressing a yearning for their old traditions and communities.
Or they could just be people who need to get a real problem.
posted by pomegranate at 4:03 AM on December 7, 2004 [1 favorite]
I consider myself agnostic and feel dismayed when I see people inappropriately use "Happy Holidays".
Now, inappropriately is NOT on a secular winter gift card (even that feels wrong, but well, oh well). Inappropriately certainly is, for example, trying to rename something that is clearly a christmas tree to a "seasons greeting's" tree (this was done in Toronto, Canada). It not only feels very forced, but worse yet, it feels like an atheist pride parade gone amok. It causes unnecessary division between people, and that's never a good thing.
There's no need to feel proud of being atheist/agnostic/non-christian. You just are. You decided you liked that way of life, or were brainwashed into it, and it is just the way you are. It is no more something to be proud of than knowing exactly how many freckles you have on your body.
posted by shepd at 4:11 AM on December 7, 2004
Now, inappropriately is NOT on a secular winter gift card (even that feels wrong, but well, oh well). Inappropriately certainly is, for example, trying to rename something that is clearly a christmas tree to a "seasons greeting's" tree (this was done in Toronto, Canada). It not only feels very forced, but worse yet, it feels like an atheist pride parade gone amok. It causes unnecessary division between people, and that's never a good thing.
There's no need to feel proud of being atheist/agnostic/non-christian. You just are. You decided you liked that way of life, or were brainwashed into it, and it is just the way you are. It is no more something to be proud of than knowing exactly how many freckles you have on your body.
posted by shepd at 4:11 AM on December 7, 2004
Not Christian by any stretch of the imagination but I was ticked when 'Merry Christmas' was replace with 'Seasons Greetings' and 'Happy Holidays'. 'They' and 'them' are taking the fun out of everything. Can't call someone blind because it might offend, can't refer to to 2 hard drives as master and slave because it is considered racist, bookworm is considered a slur, boys night out is sexist, elderly is apparently offensive, fanatic, manhole covers, hell, evil, soul food ... rips out a third of her Oxford dictionary.
Another bit of PC insanity, all in the attempt to not offend they wind up offending anyways. I'm actually offended there are people out there trying to sanitize the language into some homogeneous non-offensive, sexless, non-secular, word speak that says nothing.
[/soap box]
posted by squeak at 4:36 AM on December 7, 2004
Another bit of PC insanity, all in the attempt to not offend they wind up offending anyways. I'm actually offended there are people out there trying to sanitize the language into some homogeneous non-offensive, sexless, non-secular, word speak that says nothing.
[/soap box]
posted by squeak at 4:36 AM on December 7, 2004
Some Christians feel that their institutions are under attack. It's really an issue of perspective-- they were allowed to run over everyone who disagreed with them for quite a long time, and it only seems natural that a trend towards "inclusiveness" is going to make them feel like they're losing their monopoly and make them feel threatened. Just going along and saying "Merry Christmas" isn't really helping their superstitions gain further acceptance and it's easier.
It's a pretty natural response, actually-- especially seeing as how religion, and specifically Christianity, were subtly promoted by the US government as an antidote to atheistic communism. Unfortunately, the Communist Boogeyman has been replaced with Muslim Boogeymen, so a subset people feel even more threatened.
As an atheist who's the son and grandson of atheists, I say "whatever." Let the baby have his bottle. You don't change anyone's opinion by saying "I don't celebrate Christmas, and Christmas is a manufactured holiday to compete with the Roman Lupercal, and there wouldn't have been a Roman Census in the winter and Jesus was born around the time of a census and the shepherds weren't doing winter things, and you are dumb." So it's easier just to smile and say "Merry Christmas to you, too." Add "idiot" to that in your head if it makes you fell better, but you're being just as petty as the "Merry Christmas Or Else" people.
posted by Mayor Curley at 4:49 AM on December 7, 2004
It's a pretty natural response, actually-- especially seeing as how religion, and specifically Christianity, were subtly promoted by the US government as an antidote to atheistic communism. Unfortunately, the Communist Boogeyman has been replaced with Muslim Boogeymen, so a subset people feel even more threatened.
As an atheist who's the son and grandson of atheists, I say "whatever." Let the baby have his bottle. You don't change anyone's opinion by saying "I don't celebrate Christmas, and Christmas is a manufactured holiday to compete with the Roman Lupercal, and there wouldn't have been a Roman Census in the winter and Jesus was born around the time of a census and the shepherds weren't doing winter things, and you are dumb." So it's easier just to smile and say "Merry Christmas to you, too." Add "idiot" to that in your head if it makes you fell better, but you're being just as petty as the "Merry Christmas Or Else" people.
posted by Mayor Curley at 4:49 AM on December 7, 2004
I take sentiments like that at face value. Wish me Merry Christmas, wish me Happy Kwanza, wish me Happy Winter Soltice. I don't care, if you're saying it with good intentions I'll take it as it's intended.
I've had one militant Mormon scream Merry Christmas into my face, I responded with my right middle finger.
posted by substrate at 5:12 AM on December 7, 2004
I've had one militant Mormon scream Merry Christmas into my face, I responded with my right middle finger.
posted by substrate at 5:12 AM on December 7, 2004
As a Brit in the US this week I'm noticing that this seems to be a big deal here this year.
Bill O'Reilly seems to think that it is a cover up job by 'progressives' who think that if they can overturn organised religion in this country then they can get a route back into power or somesuch. It sounded like a complete load of paranoid bull but you might want to check out his web site for a laugh. Rush Limbaugh seemed to be banging on the same tack as well.
(I also saw my first ever 700 Club 'news' report which kind of opened up a whole new parallel universe but that's a story for another day...)
My view is that I don't really care how people wish me well as long as it's from the heart. It would help if everyone realised that Christmas was originally (and still is) a pagan midwinter festival which was appropriated, like so many other festivals, by Christians who were looking to expand their religion so they shouldn't be too upset if people who believe a different creed might want to try that same trick. But I won't hold my breath...
posted by i_cola at 5:27 AM on December 7, 2004
Bill O'Reilly seems to think that it is a cover up job by 'progressives' who think that if they can overturn organised religion in this country then they can get a route back into power or somesuch. It sounded like a complete load of paranoid bull but you might want to check out his web site for a laugh. Rush Limbaugh seemed to be banging on the same tack as well.
(I also saw my first ever 700 Club 'news' report which kind of opened up a whole new parallel universe but that's a story for another day...)
My view is that I don't really care how people wish me well as long as it's from the heart. It would help if everyone realised that Christmas was originally (and still is) a pagan midwinter festival which was appropriated, like so many other festivals, by Christians who were looking to expand their religion so they shouldn't be too upset if people who believe a different creed might want to try that same trick. But I won't hold my breath...
posted by i_cola at 5:27 AM on December 7, 2004
i don't see what's so pc about saying "Happy Holidays". Many people enjoy this time of year as a holiday and celebrate it in their own way. Many of those people are celebrating Christmas. Some aren't. I'm not going to send out a card to my clients at this time of year saying "Merry Christmas" when a lot of them aren't celebrating Christmas, because that just seems goofy.
Happy Greetings,
Glenwood
posted by glenwood at 5:35 AM on December 7, 2004
Happy Greetings,
Glenwood
posted by glenwood at 5:35 AM on December 7, 2004
Because Christianity seems to be the only holiday for which this is done. I've turned on the television, and seen the local channels wish me a happy Kwanza, Hanukah, and Diwali. But when it's Christmas, then suddenly it's offensive to mention the holiday's name, and we get vague messages like "Seasons Greetings" or "Happy holidays".
posted by unreason at 5:57 AM on December 7, 2004
posted by unreason at 5:57 AM on December 7, 2004
Because "Christmas" is special, "Holidays" aren't. This is why we have heartwarming Christmas specials, not heartwarming generic holiday specials.
Ironically, while posting this, I just noticed that I have a bag of M&Ms (mint! I love mint M&Ms!) which, although they are green and red and feature the M&M guys in Santa Hats, are labelled their "Happy Holidays Mix"
posted by dagnyscott at 5:58 AM on December 7, 2004
Ironically, while posting this, I just noticed that I have a bag of M&Ms (mint! I love mint M&Ms!) which, although they are green and red and feature the M&M guys in Santa Hats, are labelled their "Happy Holidays Mix"
posted by dagnyscott at 5:58 AM on December 7, 2004
But I like "Happy Holidays"... I've always thought of Christmas as December 25th, whereas, by using "Happy Holidays", one is covering all the bases from Thanksgiving through to New Year. Why does it have to be an either-or thing?
posted by normy at 6:02 AM on December 7, 2004
posted by normy at 6:02 AM on December 7, 2004
I, for one, am offended by Merry Christmas. If an acquaintance wishes me Merry Christmas, I'd like to respond with "Happy Holy Season for Hot Butt-sex with your dead Grandma's bones, you arrogant fuck" but I generally settle for Happy Holidays. This isn't a Christian nation or society, but that doesn't keep many Christians from foisting their beliefs on the rest of us. Maybe if Merry Christmas sounded more like "Let there be Peace on Earth and let it begin with me" than "My God is bigger than your gods" I would be less offended.
Bonus points for wishing me "God Jul" too. I hate American Christmas, but Jul has a pagan air to it that makes me feel right at home. So Bah-humbug and God Jul!
posted by McGuillicuddy at 6:04 AM on December 7, 2004
Bonus points for wishing me "God Jul" too. I hate American Christmas, but Jul has a pagan air to it that makes me feel right at home. So Bah-humbug and God Jul!
posted by McGuillicuddy at 6:04 AM on December 7, 2004
Am I alone in thinking that "Seasons Greetings" is more worthy of scorn? Maybe it's a pedantic nerdy thing, but to me it reads more like a placeholder than a greeting. It doesn't actually say anything. I always seem to interpret it as "insert Seasons Greetings here", which seems rather asinine.
posted by normy at 6:16 AM on December 7, 2004
posted by normy at 6:16 AM on December 7, 2004
Mint M&Ms? Yum. Wow, I have been averting my eyes in the candy aisle for far too long. I tuned out somewhere around Kit Kats.
posted by thinkpiece at 6:17 AM on December 7, 2004
posted by thinkpiece at 6:17 AM on December 7, 2004
Isn't "holidays" a mashup of "holy days" anyway?
posted by mr_crash_davis at 6:23 AM on December 7, 2004
posted by mr_crash_davis at 6:23 AM on December 7, 2004
I worded my previous comment poorly. Christmas is special. Hanukkah is special. Yule is special. "Holidays" are generic. Generic is not special. Generic is what we get every day.
posted by dagnyscott at 6:33 AM on December 7, 2004
posted by dagnyscott at 6:33 AM on December 7, 2004
glenwood++
I don't celebrate Christmas (not being Christian and all), but I exchange gifts with a few people in the spirit of the season (and bonus time). I generally don't mind when people I don't know say it to me, even though it smacks of a wrong assumption. I DO get offended when people I know, who know that I'm not Christian, say it to me.
Maybe it's a pedantic nerdy thing, but to me it reads more like a placeholder than a greeting. It doesn't actually say anything.
Neither does "Merry Christmas", if you're going to make that argument.
posted by mkultra at 6:41 AM on December 7, 2004
I don't celebrate Christmas (not being Christian and all), but I exchange gifts with a few people in the spirit of the season (and bonus time). I generally don't mind when people I don't know say it to me, even though it smacks of a wrong assumption. I DO get offended when people I know, who know that I'm not Christian, say it to me.
Maybe it's a pedantic nerdy thing, but to me it reads more like a placeholder than a greeting. It doesn't actually say anything.
Neither does "Merry Christmas", if you're going to make that argument.
posted by mkultra at 6:41 AM on December 7, 2004
Happy Holy Days...
seems to apply to xtians, jews, muslims, pagans and - if you rush it - atheists too.
Works for me.
posted by dash_slot- at 6:46 AM on December 7, 2004
seems to apply to xtians, jews, muslims, pagans and - if you rush it - atheists too.
Works for me.
posted by dash_slot- at 6:46 AM on December 7, 2004
Neither does "Merry Christmas", if you're going to make that argument.
I never said it was a logically complete argument... anyhow, "Merry Christmas" aeems like it has an implied "have a" prefixed to it, whereas "have a Season's Greetings" doesn't really work. Maybe we're over-thinking this...
posted by normy at 6:49 AM on December 7, 2004
I never said it was a logically complete argument... anyhow, "Merry Christmas" aeems like it has an implied "have a" prefixed to it, whereas "have a Season's Greetings" doesn't really work. Maybe we're over-thinking this...
posted by normy at 6:49 AM on December 7, 2004
Why are giving them a holiday greeting at all, when you don't know what or if they celebrate? If it's because it's your holiday and you wish to spread the spirit of Christmas, it's a bit off to not say "Merry Christmas".
posted by smackfu at 6:49 AM on December 7, 2004
posted by smackfu at 6:49 AM on December 7, 2004
Secular Jew's point of view: I'd rather Christmas-celebrating people just celebrate Christmas and have a good time than pretend implicitly that Hannukah is "the Jewish Christmas," or even anything remotely comparable. Everyone knows about Hannukah because businessmen know they can capitalize on it, but outside of Jewish areas, few souls know about the High Holy Days. If only we'd thought to schedule them in the Holiday Season!
I don't take offense when people wish me a Merry Christmas, because Christmas should be a happy time, and dagnabbit, the reality of the situation in the US at least is that most people will at least be celebrating the capitalist/pagan part of Christmas. "Happy Holidays" conveys to me this intentionally dumbed-down version of the season where an awful lot of people are celebrating this one important holiday, but we daren't mention what it is lest we upset The Other. Even if it's a well-intentioned gesture, it doesn't seem...I don't know...honest somehow. Frankly, I'd rather see "Joy to the World!" or "Peace on Earth!" than "Happy Holidays." And "Season's Greetings" is just plain dumb.
The generic greetings don't upset me. And, on preview, if you're wishing Merry Christmas to an individual whom you know not to be celebrating Christmas, that's silly and, depending on your tone, possibly insensitive or worse. But, why should I be offended by the fact that most people have this one joyous holiday they're celebrating?
posted by Sticherbeast at 6:53 AM on December 7, 2004
I don't take offense when people wish me a Merry Christmas, because Christmas should be a happy time, and dagnabbit, the reality of the situation in the US at least is that most people will at least be celebrating the capitalist/pagan part of Christmas. "Happy Holidays" conveys to me this intentionally dumbed-down version of the season where an awful lot of people are celebrating this one important holiday, but we daren't mention what it is lest we upset The Other. Even if it's a well-intentioned gesture, it doesn't seem...I don't know...honest somehow. Frankly, I'd rather see "Joy to the World!" or "Peace on Earth!" than "Happy Holidays." And "Season's Greetings" is just plain dumb.
The generic greetings don't upset me. And, on preview, if you're wishing Merry Christmas to an individual whom you know not to be celebrating Christmas, that's silly and, depending on your tone, possibly insensitive or worse. But, why should I be offended by the fact that most people have this one joyous holiday they're celebrating?
posted by Sticherbeast at 6:53 AM on December 7, 2004
Isn't "holidays" a mashup of "holy days" anyway?
So "happy holidays" should now be reduced to "happy days". Hmmmm, maybe not (got that damn TV show tune in my head).
posted by SpaceCadet at 6:57 AM on December 7, 2004
So "happy holidays" should now be reduced to "happy days". Hmmmm, maybe not (got that damn TV show tune in my head).
posted by SpaceCadet at 6:57 AM on December 7, 2004
'They' and 'them' are taking the fun out of everything.
I agree squeak - it's just more humourless PCness, and I find that more offensive than anything - the McBland fear-of-offending thought police nannying us on how to speak. There was a school band in England that were not allowed to play "When I'm 64" because one member of the school was a Jehovah's Witness and they don't celebrate birthdays. The Manic Street Preachers sum it up quite nicely.
posted by SpaceCadet at 7:03 AM on December 7, 2004
I agree squeak - it's just more humourless PCness, and I find that more offensive than anything - the McBland fear-of-offending thought police nannying us on how to speak. There was a school band in England that were not allowed to play "When I'm 64" because one member of the school was a Jehovah's Witness and they don't celebrate birthdays. The Manic Street Preachers sum it up quite nicely.
posted by SpaceCadet at 7:03 AM on December 7, 2004
Secular person here as well. Since I'm long out of school and winter break is a thing of the past, I tend to use Happy Holidays to cover everything from December 1st to January 1st, sort of a catch-all nod to the extended time off and vactions folks will be taking (or the hosting of family members coming into town).
Get closer to the 25th and I'll say Merry Christmas, unless I know you don't celebrate. But I generally try to avoid it any earlier because saying so around December 1st feels way too early. (In retrospect, I don't think my Catholic family says "Merry Christmas" except on the the actual eve/day or at Christmas parties.)
posted by Sangre Azul at 7:03 AM on December 7, 2004
Get closer to the 25th and I'll say Merry Christmas, unless I know you don't celebrate. But I generally try to avoid it any earlier because saying so around December 1st feels way too early. (In retrospect, I don't think my Catholic family says "Merry Christmas" except on the the actual eve/day or at Christmas parties.)
posted by Sangre Azul at 7:03 AM on December 7, 2004
Is it replacing Merry Christmas? "Happy Holidays" and "Season's Greetings" have been available as alternatives on seasonal cards, banners, ads and so on as far back as I can remember. A courtesy to Jews, back then, they being the only non-Christians with a significant PR presence--now a courtesy to the 52-pickup assortment of non-Christians one encounters--Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, atheists, Santeria adherents, Satanistas, morons who think they're witches, etc. etc. Season's Greetings to all you guys, don't feel left out of my magnanimous and all-embracing good will.
> i was offended when i wished someone "happy christmas" at
> a work's christmas party and they froze me out with "i don't celebrate
> christmas - i'm not a christian".
"I do beg your pardon. I certainly won't make that mistake again." (Miss Manners, from some years ago.)
> I celebrate Jul, so bonus points to anyone that says "Merry Yule"
> or similar to me,
Heh. Decorating a forest tree for the midwinter festival is pretty Yulish, no matter who does it (I expect to.) One of these years I'm gonna get a bunch of Sculpy and make a Woden-crucified-on-Yggdrasil ornament for the top, instead of that boring old angel. Will anybody notice, I wonder?
> Everyone knows about Hannukah because businessmen know they can
> capitalize on it, but outside of Jewish areas, few souls know about
> the High Holy Days.
Give thanks for that. If I could somehow quietly shift Christmas away from the Hideous Commercial Orgy season I'd do it in a heartbeat.
posted by jfuller at 7:07 AM on December 7, 2004
> i was offended when i wished someone "happy christmas" at
> a work's christmas party and they froze me out with "i don't celebrate
> christmas - i'm not a christian".
"I do beg your pardon. I certainly won't make that mistake again." (Miss Manners, from some years ago.)
> I celebrate Jul, so bonus points to anyone that says "Merry Yule"
> or similar to me,
Heh. Decorating a forest tree for the midwinter festival is pretty Yulish, no matter who does it (I expect to.) One of these years I'm gonna get a bunch of Sculpy and make a Woden-crucified-on-Yggdrasil ornament for the top, instead of that boring old angel. Will anybody notice, I wonder?
> Everyone knows about Hannukah because businessmen know they can
> capitalize on it, but outside of Jewish areas, few souls know about
> the High Holy Days.
Give thanks for that. If I could somehow quietly shift Christmas away from the Hideous Commercial Orgy season I'd do it in a heartbeat.
posted by jfuller at 7:07 AM on December 7, 2004
Just to bring this back to pemdasi's question... I can think of three possible explanations for why Macy's used to wish people "Merry Christmas" but no longer does.
1. The staff of Macy's are Christians who sincerely want to send spiritual greetings to their fellow Christians, but they have been have been intimidated into silence by anti-religion fanatics.
2. The staff of Macy's are capitalists who decorate their stores in the fashion most likely to increase their sales, and they have determined that "Happy holidays" is now a more effective marketing message than "Merry Christmas."
3. The staff of Macy's have realized that their use of "Merry Christmas" as a marketing slogan has contributed to the commercial coarsening of an important religious holiday and have decided to stop.
I think #2 is the most likely explanation, and pemdasi probably agrees with me, which is why s/he is puzzled that anybody would object to the change. But I'm guessing that the people who are offended believe #1 is the case.
On a different note, since moving to the UK, I have observed that people here are much, much more likely to treat Christmas as a purely secular holiday than they were back in the US. I'm Jewish, and a Muslim friend here recently asked me what I was doing for Christmas. It took her a moment to understand why I found that an odd question for the two of us to be discussing.
posted by yankeefog at 7:07 AM on December 7, 2004
1. The staff of Macy's are Christians who sincerely want to send spiritual greetings to their fellow Christians, but they have been have been intimidated into silence by anti-religion fanatics.
2. The staff of Macy's are capitalists who decorate their stores in the fashion most likely to increase their sales, and they have determined that "Happy holidays" is now a more effective marketing message than "Merry Christmas."
3. The staff of Macy's have realized that their use of "Merry Christmas" as a marketing slogan has contributed to the commercial coarsening of an important religious holiday and have decided to stop.
I think #2 is the most likely explanation, and pemdasi probably agrees with me, which is why s/he is puzzled that anybody would object to the change. But I'm guessing that the people who are offended believe #1 is the case.
On a different note, since moving to the UK, I have observed that people here are much, much more likely to treat Christmas as a purely secular holiday than they were back in the US. I'm Jewish, and a Muslim friend here recently asked me what I was doing for Christmas. It took her a moment to understand why I found that an odd question for the two of us to be discussing.
posted by yankeefog at 7:07 AM on December 7, 2004
It's the winter solstice. People all over the world have been celebrating this time of year a lot longer than they've been recognizing Jesus' birthday. I've mentioned it before on AskMe, but it's no coincidence that just about every culture has something going on this month.
posted by Eamon at 7:20 AM on December 7, 2004
posted by Eamon at 7:20 AM on December 7, 2004
My fiancee and I bought a Christmas tree on Saturday. We drove out to a family farm, joined the family and a few other customers for some conversation and hot chocolate, and drove out with our tree strapped to the top of the car. On the way out, the owner's son-in-law waved, and called out "happy holidays!"
posted by waldo at 8:01 AM on December 7, 2004
posted by waldo at 8:01 AM on December 7, 2004
To me, "Happy Holidays" encompasses New Year's too, a time where people are still having parties and celebrating the years end. So it doesn't bother me in the slightest. "Merry Christmas" doesn't bother me either - Christmas has become secular - someone using it doesn't have to believe in Christ one bit, just like I don't.
posted by agregoli at 8:04 AM on December 7, 2004
posted by agregoli at 8:04 AM on December 7, 2004
I was in Sri Lanka at Christmas time last year and despite the fact that it is a Buddhist country with Hindu as the second religion (with Islam & Christianity following) Christmas is celebrated as a major festival.
This is partly down to a colonial past (Portugese, Dutch & British) but I think mainly down to the fact that Sri Lankans love a festival. Add in numerous other religious days off including every full moon (poya) and you've got a sensible approach to organizing your time.
I know that this year back in the UK people are miffed because Xmas day falls on a Saturday so the two weeks of holiday that we've enjoyed for the past few years is getting interrupted with working days before New Year. Not So Happy Holidays...
posted by i_cola at 8:06 AM on December 7, 2004
This is partly down to a colonial past (Portugese, Dutch & British) but I think mainly down to the fact that Sri Lankans love a festival. Add in numerous other religious days off including every full moon (poya) and you've got a sensible approach to organizing your time.
I know that this year back in the UK people are miffed because Xmas day falls on a Saturday so the two weeks of holiday that we've enjoyed for the past few years is getting interrupted with working days before New Year. Not So Happy Holidays...
posted by i_cola at 8:06 AM on December 7, 2004
jfuller, hahaha. Odin hanging in a noose off the top would be quite morbid. Personally I don't bring any trees inside but we do decorate the one outside with stuff that the cold little birds can eat!
posted by dabitch at 8:10 AM on December 7, 2004
posted by dabitch at 8:10 AM on December 7, 2004
I've always thought of Christmas as December 25th, whereas, by using "Happy Holidays", one is covering all the bases from Thanksgiving through to New Year. Why does it have to be an either-or thing?
posted by normy at 6:02 AM PST on December 7
exactly
The phrase has been around since I can remember (and I'm old, compared to the average on mefi)
posted by kamylyon at 8:27 AM on December 7, 2004
posted by normy at 6:02 AM PST on December 7
exactly
The phrase has been around since I can remember (and I'm old, compared to the average on mefi)
posted by kamylyon at 8:27 AM on December 7, 2004
I'm with many who posted before me, I think Happy Holidays covers all the various celebrations from Dec. 1 to Jan. 1. You are free to Merry Christmas me all you want.
Actually, this is a very big deal here in Raleigh at the moment. Two weeks ago The Church of The Upper Room of God took out a full page ad in the News & Observer, urging Christians to boycott businesses that don't wish their patrons a Merry Christmas. Many, many letters to ed ensued.
I just wrote about this in my blog yesterday: Maybe it is time for Christmas and Santa Day to get a divorce. Give Christmas back to the Christians.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 8:37 AM on December 7, 2004
Actually, this is a very big deal here in Raleigh at the moment. Two weeks ago The Church of The Upper Room of God took out a full page ad in the News & Observer, urging Christians to boycott businesses that don't wish their patrons a Merry Christmas. Many, many letters to ed ensued.
I just wrote about this in my blog yesterday: Maybe it is time for Christmas and Santa Day to get a divorce. Give Christmas back to the Christians.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 8:37 AM on December 7, 2004
Duh - it's because Santa comes at Christmas. Holidays are when you lie on a beach.
posted by Cancergiggles at 8:55 AM on December 7, 2004
posted by Cancergiggles at 8:55 AM on December 7, 2004
As a non-Christian who enjoys Christmas music and the smell of pine trees, it is slightly offensive for a brief moment when someone wishes me Merry Christmas. Then the moment passes and I realize that it's usually just a good will sentiment being expressed, not a religious sales pitch. I smile and say, "Have a good one!" Oh, and if it were an opening to a sales pitch, my reciprocal holiday greeting is "Kush mir in tokhes!"
posted by redneck_zionist at 9:01 AM on December 7, 2004
posted by redneck_zionist at 9:01 AM on December 7, 2004
...the carol being sung to that tune they swiped from Mozart; you know, where Good King Wenceslaus sings
Kush mir in tokhes, mein Leben,
Komm' auf mein Schloss mit mir;
Kannst du noch widerstreben?
Es ist nicht weit von hier.
posted by jfuller at 9:27 AM on December 7, 2004
Kush mir in tokhes, mein Leben,
Komm' auf mein Schloss mit mir;
Kannst du noch widerstreben?
Es ist nicht weit von hier.
posted by jfuller at 9:27 AM on December 7, 2004
"Merry Christmas" is more specific than "Happy Holidays" or "Seasons Greetings." Therefore it is practical and useful to have and use all three. Anyone who would make an issue of this (on either side) is simply pushing an agenda at the expense of common sense.
You decided you liked that way of life
Atheism is not a "way of life," stop being silly.
posted by rushmc at 9:34 AM on December 7, 2004
You decided you liked that way of life
Atheism is not a "way of life," stop being silly.
posted by rushmc at 9:34 AM on December 7, 2004
I wish people whatever I know they're celebrating at this time of year, if anything. If I don't know, I use "happy holidays" stretching from the week of Thanksgiving through the secular new year. My holiday cards go out before Hannukah (or at least before it ends) and they are specific when possible, but wish "happy holidays" when not. I appreciate it when people who know me take the time to remember what holiday that I celebrate and tailor their wishes accordingly, it's one of those little social niceties that lubricate day to day interactions.
I don't celebrate Christmas, I'd like to not be wished a Merry Christmas merely because someone assumes that the day has significance for me, but I find it worse when it's offered as a generic seasonal greeting without any thought. If you're going to say something generically, then say something generic. At least then you are neither offending someone with misapplied greetings nor cheapening the meaning of what is technically an important day for others.
Happy holidays has good use in secular society, and it seems to me that Christians ought to be applauding anything which doesn't take what is supposed to be one of the top three holy days of their religious calendar for granted as a one stop shop for wintertime happiness for everyone no matter what they personally think of that Jesus fellow.
posted by Dreama at 9:40 AM on December 7, 2004
I don't celebrate Christmas, I'd like to not be wished a Merry Christmas merely because someone assumes that the day has significance for me, but I find it worse when it's offered as a generic seasonal greeting without any thought. If you're going to say something generically, then say something generic. At least then you are neither offending someone with misapplied greetings nor cheapening the meaning of what is technically an important day for others.
Happy holidays has good use in secular society, and it seems to me that Christians ought to be applauding anything which doesn't take what is supposed to be one of the top three holy days of their religious calendar for granted as a one stop shop for wintertime happiness for everyone no matter what they personally think of that Jesus fellow.
posted by Dreama at 9:40 AM on December 7, 2004
It's a christian holiday. No Christ, no christmas, no holiday. Maybe it's a holiday from work/school for everyone but it's basis is christian.
No, it's basis is the winter solstice. It's dark and cold outside, and all through history it's been considered a depressing time of year - the days getting shorter and shorter, especially the further north you are - and yes, last year the days got longer again, but in a pre-scientific culture, how do you really know daylight won't disappear for good? if you don't know the angle of the earth etc, there's no explanation for the darkness and coldness not just getting worse, and the world ending or something. Anyway, the winter solstice is when things turn around - it is still dark and cold, but you're over the hump. You remind yourself that nature is still alive under the hard frozen ground by bringing in an evergreen and decorating it with bright colors and lights; you celebrate with family and friends in front of the fireplace, singing songs, etc... it really has basically nothing to do with jesus at all; the roman empire tried to smush jesus into a pagan festival because everyone wanted to celebrate the pagan festival, but it didn't begin with christianity.
Same's true of easter, of course - bunnies and eggs=spring fertility festival.
posted by mdn at 9:42 AM on December 7, 2004
No, it's basis is the winter solstice. It's dark and cold outside, and all through history it's been considered a depressing time of year - the days getting shorter and shorter, especially the further north you are - and yes, last year the days got longer again, but in a pre-scientific culture, how do you really know daylight won't disappear for good? if you don't know the angle of the earth etc, there's no explanation for the darkness and coldness not just getting worse, and the world ending or something. Anyway, the winter solstice is when things turn around - it is still dark and cold, but you're over the hump. You remind yourself that nature is still alive under the hard frozen ground by bringing in an evergreen and decorating it with bright colors and lights; you celebrate with family and friends in front of the fireplace, singing songs, etc... it really has basically nothing to do with jesus at all; the roman empire tried to smush jesus into a pagan festival because everyone wanted to celebrate the pagan festival, but it didn't begin with christianity.
Same's true of easter, of course - bunnies and eggs=spring fertility festival.
posted by mdn at 9:42 AM on December 7, 2004
and drove out with our tree strapped to the top of the car. On the way out, the owner's son-in-law waved, and called out "happy holidays!"
I have Jewish friends who get Christmas trees...
posted by jalexei at 9:48 AM on December 7, 2004
I have Jewish friends who get Christmas trees...
posted by jalexei at 9:48 AM on December 7, 2004
> I find it worse when it's offered as a generic seasonal greeting without
> any thought.
In what I believe is the majority of cases where you're hit by a "Merry Christmas" and it's not from someone you know personally but rather from some media source the meaning isn't generic, unthinking goodwill at all; it means, very explicitly, spend your money here. In such cases I absolutely do wish they would drop Merry Christmas and be more forthright about who's being reverenced.
posted by jfuller at 9:57 AM on December 7, 2004
> any thought.
In what I believe is the majority of cases where you're hit by a "Merry Christmas" and it's not from someone you know personally but rather from some media source the meaning isn't generic, unthinking goodwill at all; it means, very explicitly, spend your money here. In such cases I absolutely do wish they would drop Merry Christmas and be more forthright about who's being reverenced.
posted by jfuller at 9:57 AM on December 7, 2004
Happy holidays has good use in secular society, and it seems to me that Christians ought to be applauding anything which doesn't take what is supposed to be one of the top three holy days of their religious calendar for granted as a one stop shop for wintertime happiness for everyone no matter what they personally think of that Jesus fellow.
Good point.
posted by rushmc at 10:03 AM on December 7, 2004
Good point.
posted by rushmc at 10:03 AM on December 7, 2004
Politics aside: basic etiquette is to make no assumptions about people. Therefore, at this time of year, a 'Happy Holidays' greeting for strangers and slight acquaintaces is most polite. Everyone is getting some sort of holiday, whether it's the calendar New Year, Christmas, Hanukkah, St. Stephen's Day, St. Nicholas' Day, just a day or two off work, whatever. "Happy Holidays" is gracious and non-intrusive; it neither assumes that someone will or won't be celebrating the same holiday as I am.
With friends whom I know are celebrating Christmas, I say "Merry Christmas". Which makes it a lot more meaningful, as it's a personal wish for a wonderful holiday, not just a generic greeting.
posted by Miko at 10:09 AM on December 7, 2004
With friends whom I know are celebrating Christmas, I say "Merry Christmas". Which makes it a lot more meaningful, as it's a personal wish for a wonderful holiday, not just a generic greeting.
posted by Miko at 10:09 AM on December 7, 2004
normy is spot on.
"Happy Holidays" covers all religious and non-religious winter holidays. If someone greets me with a specific greeting (Merry Christmas, etc.), I'm not offended, but I always respond with "Happy Holidays".
I send out holiday cards every year and they always have a "Peace" theme. I personalize them with a religious greeting when appropriate.
Note: I am not a Christian.
posted by deborah at 10:29 AM on December 7, 2004
"Happy Holidays" covers all religious and non-religious winter holidays. If someone greets me with a specific greeting (Merry Christmas, etc.), I'm not offended, but I always respond with "Happy Holidays".
I send out holiday cards every year and they always have a "Peace" theme. I personalize them with a religious greeting when appropriate.
Note: I am not a Christian.
posted by deborah at 10:29 AM on December 7, 2004
"...few souls know about the High Holy Days. If only we'd thought to schedule them in the Holiday Season!"
Hear, hear!
I know people think they're being inclusive when they say "Happy Holidays" or "Season's Greetings", but plenty of Jews see it as:
1) Nakedly cheesy marketing tactics, since Channukah is a pretty minor holiday. Yet it probably gets more attention in American media than Passover, Purim, and Sukkot combined.
2) Totally ironic, since the entire point of Channukah is about not having your religious traditions co-opted and secularized! (Well, there's also the "freedom of religion" bit, but that kind of goes along with it.)
If you mean to say Merry Christmas, and all the cheery goodwill that entails, please feel free to say it! Christmas is a beautiful holiday, hearing carolers sing "O Holy Night" gives me goosebumps, and the message of hope and peace is inspiring. That people could willingly dilute that into The Star Wars Holiday Special (with "music" provided by Carrie Fisher) is just sad. Saying "Merry Christmas" doesn't offend me, but stripping the very soul out of the holiday and then crassly attempting to do the same thing to Channukah sure does.
posted by Asparagirl at 11:16 AM on December 7, 2004
Hear, hear!
I know people think they're being inclusive when they say "Happy Holidays" or "Season's Greetings", but plenty of Jews see it as:
1) Nakedly cheesy marketing tactics, since Channukah is a pretty minor holiday. Yet it probably gets more attention in American media than Passover, Purim, and Sukkot combined.
2) Totally ironic, since the entire point of Channukah is about not having your religious traditions co-opted and secularized! (Well, there's also the "freedom of religion" bit, but that kind of goes along with it.)
If you mean to say Merry Christmas, and all the cheery goodwill that entails, please feel free to say it! Christmas is a beautiful holiday, hearing carolers sing "O Holy Night" gives me goosebumps, and the message of hope and peace is inspiring. That people could willingly dilute that into The Star Wars Holiday Special (with "music" provided by Carrie Fisher) is just sad. Saying "Merry Christmas" doesn't offend me, but stripping the very soul out of the holiday and then crassly attempting to do the same thing to Channukah sure does.
posted by Asparagirl at 11:16 AM on December 7, 2004
It bothers me because the only reason I can see for all the “Happy Holidays” stuff is become some people decided they were offended by “Merry Christmas”. Changing something so innocuous based on the grumbling of a relative few does not seem like a good idea regardless of the issue.
If I say to you “Merry Christmas” without knowing you are Jewish, Hindu, atheist, etc please understand my intent is not to cause you discomfort. If you are offended, that is a decision that takes place completely inside your head. It’s got nothing to do with me really, for my intent was only to share some of my good feelings with you. If you’d like to alert me, kindly, that you would rather not have those words said to you for some reason, then please do so. And I will not say them to you again. But don't try to force me to give up a long established celebration of my faith because you may not share my beliefs. Go and celebrate your own faith in the manner of your choosing – that’s what America is all about. Oh, and if you want to wish me Happy Hanukkah, Merry Kwanzaa or anything else – go ahead. I’d be pleased to share your joy.
posted by Local Hero at 11:18 AM on December 7, 2004
If I say to you “Merry Christmas” without knowing you are Jewish, Hindu, atheist, etc please understand my intent is not to cause you discomfort. If you are offended, that is a decision that takes place completely inside your head. It’s got nothing to do with me really, for my intent was only to share some of my good feelings with you. If you’d like to alert me, kindly, that you would rather not have those words said to you for some reason, then please do so. And I will not say them to you again. But don't try to force me to give up a long established celebration of my faith because you may not share my beliefs. Go and celebrate your own faith in the manner of your choosing – that’s what America is all about. Oh, and if you want to wish me Happy Hanukkah, Merry Kwanzaa or anything else – go ahead. I’d be pleased to share your joy.
posted by Local Hero at 11:18 AM on December 7, 2004
In the UK at least things like renaming Christmas to Winterval or whatever usually seem to be done by well-meaning, but ignorant lefties of one form or another, keen to avoid offending their resident muslim, jewish or hindu populations. However, in my experience, none of the people renaming things are of any of these religions. In fact most of my muslim friends don't mind xmas at all - they see Christ as a prophet, although not divine, and have no problems with celebrating his birth. Most folks of other religions I've spoken to tend not to really mind - the view most commonly expressed is that they wouldn't expect a country where their religion was the majority to rename its festivals for the sake of a few christians, and they don't see why we should for them.
posted by prentiz at 11:24 AM on December 7, 2004
posted by prentiz at 11:24 AM on December 7, 2004
It bothers me because the only reason I can see for all the “Happy Holidays” stuff is become some people decided they were offended by “Merry Christmas”.
Then clearly you haven't read this thread.
posted by rushmc at 12:23 PM on December 7, 2004
Then clearly you haven't read this thread.
posted by rushmc at 12:23 PM on December 7, 2004
Happy Festivus!
Seriously, speaking as a non-Christian who works in retail, I find the whole 'Let's shove Christian propaganda down everyones throats' a little much. Everywhere you go there is music proclaiming that 'the Lord is come' or 'the Christchild is born' or somesuch.
That is an bald fact. Everywhere you go, you WILL hear Christmas music proclaiming the divinity of a dude born about 2000 years ago. How is it, then, that when some people want to be polite and wish people a 'Happy Holiday' instead of a 'Merry Christmas' that some people could interpret this as a threat to Christianity, somehow?
You want your Christmas. Fine. But don't expect people like me, who have to put up with it, to like it. I'm not being a 'humbug' or a 'grinch' or whatever. I'm being me. I'm not a Christian. And I don't like being told over and over to celebrate a holiday that has nothing whatsoever to do with me or my beliefs. Seriously, what kind of person tells another person to celebrate a holiday when they know that person is not of the religion that celebrates that holiday? Someone either obtuse, oblivious, or insensitive in the least.
posted by geekhorde at 12:25 PM on December 7, 2004
Seriously, speaking as a non-Christian who works in retail, I find the whole 'Let's shove Christian propaganda down everyones throats' a little much. Everywhere you go there is music proclaiming that 'the Lord is come' or 'the Christchild is born' or somesuch.
That is an bald fact. Everywhere you go, you WILL hear Christmas music proclaiming the divinity of a dude born about 2000 years ago. How is it, then, that when some people want to be polite and wish people a 'Happy Holiday' instead of a 'Merry Christmas' that some people could interpret this as a threat to Christianity, somehow?
You want your Christmas. Fine. But don't expect people like me, who have to put up with it, to like it. I'm not being a 'humbug' or a 'grinch' or whatever. I'm being me. I'm not a Christian. And I don't like being told over and over to celebrate a holiday that has nothing whatsoever to do with me or my beliefs. Seriously, what kind of person tells another person to celebrate a holiday when they know that person is not of the religion that celebrates that holiday? Someone either obtuse, oblivious, or insensitive in the least.
posted by geekhorde at 12:25 PM on December 7, 2004
Also, the "Happy Holidays" thing is NOT recent.
Bing Crosby was singing that song back in the Fifties.
posted by geekhorde at 12:30 PM on December 7, 2004
Bing Crosby was singing that song back in the Fifties.
posted by geekhorde at 12:30 PM on December 7, 2004
Merry Christmas! rushmc
posted by Local Hero at 1:36 PM on December 7, 2004
posted by Local Hero at 1:36 PM on December 7, 2004
I'm a Christian and I have no problem with Happy Holidays. Like it was mentioned above, most of my early Christmas memories are of the family playing Bing Crosby albums around December.
Does anyone really think of Christ when somebody says "Merry Christmas?" Maybe I should but I really don't. If you want to remember Christ's birth I don't see how Happy Holidays impedes you.
posted by TetrisKid at 1:41 PM on December 7, 2004
Does anyone really think of Christ when somebody says "Merry Christmas?" Maybe I should but I really don't. If you want to remember Christ's birth I don't see how Happy Holidays impedes you.
posted by TetrisKid at 1:41 PM on December 7, 2004
I'm Jewish, and I'm not offended when someone wishes me a merry Christmas. They're making an assumption based on the majority, and it's a mistake, but I don't read any intentions into it.
I DO mind when somebody criticizes me for not celebrating Christmas. I'm a scrooge because I don't share your religion? I'm less American because I don't have a Christmas tree? Screw off.
Local Hero wrote, "If you are offended, that is a decision that takes place completely inside your head. It’s got nothing to do with me really, for my intent was only to share some of my good feelings with you." I get that your intentions are good, and again, your mistake doesn't anger me, but I don't understand the whole I-just-wanted-to-share-some-good-feelings thing. Telling somebody to enjoy your holiday is different than sharing good feelings. You don't wish someone else a happy birthday when it's your birthday! And I think you would consider it strange if I wished you an easy fast during Yom Kippur.
Basically, I'm with geekhorde: "what kind of person tells another person to celebrate a holiday when they know that person is not of the religion that celebrates that holiday?"
posted by equipoise at 3:21 PM on December 7, 2004
I DO mind when somebody criticizes me for not celebrating Christmas. I'm a scrooge because I don't share your religion? I'm less American because I don't have a Christmas tree? Screw off.
Local Hero wrote, "If you are offended, that is a decision that takes place completely inside your head. It’s got nothing to do with me really, for my intent was only to share some of my good feelings with you." I get that your intentions are good, and again, your mistake doesn't anger me, but I don't understand the whole I-just-wanted-to-share-some-good-feelings thing. Telling somebody to enjoy your holiday is different than sharing good feelings. You don't wish someone else a happy birthday when it's your birthday! And I think you would consider it strange if I wished you an easy fast during Yom Kippur.
Basically, I'm with geekhorde: "what kind of person tells another person to celebrate a holiday when they know that person is not of the religion that celebrates that holiday?"
posted by equipoise at 3:21 PM on December 7, 2004
People can wish me a "happy" anything they want. If they start wishing me ill, then it might become an issue. Besides, all but the most deluded Christians acknowledge that Christmas is totally secularized in our society (whether all non-Christians choose to celebrate it or not).
posted by rushmc at 3:32 PM on December 7, 2004
posted by rushmc at 3:32 PM on December 7, 2004
Even the most devout Christian can take "Happy Holidays" to include the holidays of Christmas and New Year's Day. That's always what I assumed growing up Southern Baptist in a small town, before I knew anything about those "other" wintertime holdays. I can't see how you'd be offended unless you were looking for a fight.
posted by 4easypayments at 4:11 PM on December 7, 2004
posted by 4easypayments at 4:11 PM on December 7, 2004
Not too many were able to speak directly to what is offensive about substituting Happy Holidays for Merry Christmas. I'll take a shot.
It is related to the fact that most of the Christian Right are intent on reinforcing Christian culture and/or belief as the dominant social phenomena in the world. Nominal or believing Christians are the majority in the US and much of Europe, comprise most of the leadership of many nations, and even many moderate Christians are actively working to increase the role of faith and church in society. A certain segment of Christians view this as the last stand, a time to defend and promote their faith to prepare for the coming of the Lord.
So when someone says Happy Holidays to them (or Merry Christmas to me), it is a direct challenge to their belief about faith and church and its role in the larger society. It is forcing one's world view on another. And at least for me, on the internet before my coffee, them are fightin' words.
posted by McGuillicuddy at 5:55 PM on December 7, 2004
It is related to the fact that most of the Christian Right are intent on reinforcing Christian culture and/or belief as the dominant social phenomena in the world. Nominal or believing Christians are the majority in the US and much of Europe, comprise most of the leadership of many nations, and even many moderate Christians are actively working to increase the role of faith and church in society. A certain segment of Christians view this as the last stand, a time to defend and promote their faith to prepare for the coming of the Lord.
So when someone says Happy Holidays to them (or Merry Christmas to me), it is a direct challenge to their belief about faith and church and its role in the larger society. It is forcing one's world view on another. And at least for me, on the internet before my coffee, them are fightin' words.
posted by McGuillicuddy at 5:55 PM on December 7, 2004
May you suffer through the deadest, darkest days of of winter rushmc. ;)
No, seriously. I can understand some of the secularization arguments that might offend some folks who already see Christmas as hijacked from a celebration of Christ's birth and principles of charity and goodness he represents, but really, you have to recognize that other people have December holidays too, and really, no matter how Christian you are, you usually celebrate New Year's too, and so why the fuss over generalized winter holidays? Grouches, I say.
And to some extent, Christianity hijacked other people's holidays. That's why I do both solstice and Christmas. Even though just about all my friends and I are Christians. Keeps us on our toes about other traditions.
On preview, 4easypayments says it.
posted by weston at 5:57 PM on December 7, 2004
No, seriously. I can understand some of the secularization arguments that might offend some folks who already see Christmas as hijacked from a celebration of Christ's birth and principles of charity and goodness he represents, but really, you have to recognize that other people have December holidays too, and really, no matter how Christian you are, you usually celebrate New Year's too, and so why the fuss over generalized winter holidays? Grouches, I say.
And to some extent, Christianity hijacked other people's holidays. That's why I do both solstice and Christmas. Even though just about all my friends and I are Christians. Keeps us on our toes about other traditions.
On preview, 4easypayments says it.
posted by weston at 5:57 PM on December 7, 2004
This thread is closed to new comments.
eh, but that's just my two cents.
posted by damnitkage at 3:35 AM on December 7, 2004