I'm buying a new TV: Explain to me the mumbojumbo!

July 6, 2006 7:08 AM

HDM-Wha?! 1080i-who? I'm buying a new TV for the first time EVER and I'm in over my head.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=108028

I posted the above to an Off-Topic videogaming forum looking to slicit some advice on a new TV. While I got some great suggestions, I also got a lot of technical mumbojumbo that makes me feel way in over my head. So, I implore you, MeFi, HELP! What's all this HDMI 1080i whatever business? I'm usually pretty tech savy, but I just haven't been in the market for a TV or a monitor in, oh, ever, actually. My TV now is a little 12 incher that does the job fine, but I was looking to get an XBox360 and, well, what's the point with a set that small?

In addition, any recommendations or advice to a new buyer are well appreciated. Thanks!

posted by GilloD to technology (25 comments total)

Oh my. I really should have spellechecked that. Welcome to Thursday!
posted by GilloD at 7:09 AM on July 6, 2006

Key Questions:

1. What are your sources? (Cable box, cable from wall, XBOX, DVD player, Computer)
2. What is your plan for sound? (External stereo or TV speakers) - I see in that linked thread you might go with a external 5.1
3. Do you have/want HDTV?
4. How big is your room? Is it day-lit or do you have complete light control?
5. What is your max budget? (Still sub-1K?)

From here, it will determine a ton.

From the information I do have, let me recommend the Westinghouse 32" LCD. I fully reserve the right to come back and change this in light of new information.
posted by jshelus at 7:19 AM on July 6, 2006

Just bought a new 42 in plasma, myself, so I know your pain. A couple things:

1. If you're primarily going to use it for gaming, get an LCD and not a plasma - it renders better, and plasma carries a slight risk of image burn-in that LCD does not.

2. Identify your price and get the best TV you can for that price. A smaller screen with a better image processing system is better than a big fat screen that looks like crap.

3. HDMI is a cable that connects your TV to your cable box, and it's the top quality way of connecting the two - it processes the signal digitally, so there's no loss in image quality from box to TV. However. Component video cables are just as good as HDMI over short distances (less than 4 feet from TV to cable box) and way cheaper.

Find a good electronics store (NOT Best Buy) in your area and pepper 'em with questions before you buy - don't worry about asking dumb questions, it's a confusing topic. Good luck...
posted by pdb at 7:24 AM on July 6, 2006

1. What are your sources? (Cable box, cable from wall, XBOX, DVD player, Computer)

Cable Box/XBox/PS2etc./DVD

2. What is your plan for sound? (External stereo or TV speakers) - I see in that linked thread you might go with a external 5.1

It's a Sony 5.1 system. Not crazy top of the line, but more than adaquate

3. Do you have/want HDTV?

Eh. If I had it, I'd use it, if I didn't, I wouldn't mind.

4. How big is your room? Is it day-lit or do you have complete light control?

I get very little natural light in my room. There's a light in the room, but it's way way up on my very high ceilings. I usually use a smaller lamp for a slightly more intimate feel.

5. What is your max budget? (Still sub-1K?)

If I can go under 1K, that'd be great. I think I'm maxing out at 1.5k.

I don't really care if it's flat screen or not, especially if it means paying a whole lot more. But keep in mind, my room isn't huge and this TV would have to come up 3 flights of fairly narrow stairs, so one of those 50 inch monsters is not gonna fly. I'd like to go above 25 inches if possible.
posted by GilloD at 7:26 AM on July 6, 2006

Sanyo's PLV-Z1 is under $500 at B&H.

Since you already have a sound system and you don't get a lot of natural light in the room, a projector system might be a good idea. The only other thing you'd need to get is a screen and some method of mounting the projector. The reviews I've read for the projector are very good and it's HDTV capable.
posted by blim8183 at 7:35 AM on July 6, 2006

The wikipedia article on HDTV is pretty informative.
posted by exogenous at 7:36 AM on July 6, 2006

RE: Projector

My only concern is that I may not live in this room forever. In fact, I'm sort of hoping I don't. My lease is up NEXT July and I suspect my life will be very different by then. Plus, there are rumors that the Nintendo Wii and projector TVs won't play along so well. As I'm kind of looking to really make this the center of my mini-media empire, I really need something that'll function anywhere I have to put it.

What's the lifespan on these things? I know my little 12" has been around for 15+ years. Can I expect that kind of longevity from a 32inch LCDFGHGDBBQWTFOMG set?
posted by GilloD at 7:44 AM on July 6, 2006

For under $1k you can get a nice 30" HDTV tube with a built-in tuner. The Samsung SlimFit models aren't quite Plasma/LCD sexy, but you can often pick them up in the $800 range. Compared to your current 12" TV it'd be a night and day difference, and you'd be able to pick up the Xbox360 and a ton of games with the difference in price between one of them and even the cheapest of LCD/Plasma TVs... plus you'd avoid most of the burn-in issues by going tube.
posted by togdon at 7:46 AM on July 6, 2006

GilloD: I think of myself as a bit of a home theater nut, so I dig this stuff. Anyhow, rather than a videogaming forum, you may find a home theater-specific forum more fruitful — two that I can recommend are AVSForum and Home Theater Forum.

Or, if you'd like, I could talk you through some of the jargon over the phone. If you e-mail me (my address is in my profile), I'll give you my number.
posted by Alex Handcoding at 7:48 AM on July 6, 2006

My coworker just bought a Sharp LC-37D40U 37" Flat Panel LCD TV, for 3 grand at BestBuy, and he loves it. He's a serious-ass gamer, and is using it with his XBox 360. This review makes it sound like it's the greatest thing evah.
posted by chunking express at 8:10 AM on July 6, 2006

HDMI should not be a make or break if you are not a home theater nut, and judging by your question you're not. All HD will be at least 1080i, with 1080p being the best. To my knowledge 1080p is still a price point above the rest for most configurations. Again 1080p is awhile away, unless you plan to purchase Blu-Ray or HD-DVD immediately, even so 1080i is such an improvement over standard definition I would not choose solely on that.

For gaming I like DLP or LCD. I believe you should get more bang for your buck with DLP. Seriously, and the crazy theater-philes at the store will tell you differently, but pick a reputable brand name and the screen which produces the best picture. Yes, someone weird Korean company may make a great looking TV, but who knows about long-term quality.

If you had phrased your question differently and had a large budget my answer would be different. Keep in mind the large number of sets sold without HDMI or 1080p, I very seriously doubt you'll run into problems missing out on those.
posted by geoff. at 8:12 AM on July 6, 2006

While that TV sounds AWESOME, I don't think 7 more inches quite justifies two-thousand extra dollars. Yeah, yeah, it's the cat's PJs, but I also think it's a great illustration of the gap between what I want and what I could actually afford :)

That said, if I actually ever had that kind of money, I'd buy ten of them and sorround myself.
posted by GilloD at 8:14 AM on July 6, 2006

Plus, there are rumors that the Nintendo Wii and projector TVs won't play along so well.

From what I've read, the worries about a Wii and projector TVs is that the placement of cables would be awkward, since Wii's sensor bar goes in front but with a projector setup your cables would hook up in back. Other than that I'd imagine they'd work together.
posted by bobo123 at 8:26 AM on July 6, 2006

Re: DLP

Be sure to test it out a lot in the store before you buy it. In rare cases some people see rainbows on the screen when there's a lot of motion. I'm one of those people and it's really annoying. The most egregious example being when I was at the Museum of Modern Art in NY recently and some of the videoart was being projected using DLP projectors. Ugh.
posted by blim8183 at 8:29 AM on July 6, 2006

Here's a question: "Non-cinematic HDTV video recordings are recorded in either 720p or 1080i format. The format depends on the broadcast company if destined for television broadcast; however, in other scenarios the format choice will vary depending on a variety of factors. In general, 720p is more appropriate for fast action as it uses progressive fields, as opposed to 1080i which uses interlaced fields and thus can have a degradation of image quality with fast motion. In addition, 720p is used more often with internet distribution of HD video, as all computer monitors are progressive, and most graphics cards do a poor job of de-interlacing video in real time. 720p Video also has lower storage and decoding requirements than 1080i or 1080p, and few people possess displays capable of displaying the 1920x1080 resolution without scaling. 720p appears at full resolution on a common 1280x1024 LCD, which can be found for under $250. An LCD capable of native 1080i resolution costs close to a thousand dollars."

Why fork out the cash for 1080i/p, then? Especially if 720p appears to be superior in most regards. Is it the hope that 1080i/p will eventually become standard? Or is it that 1080i/p is more suitable for multimedia applications (DVD/Gaming) and TV broadcasts be damned?
posted by GilloD at 8:30 AM on July 6, 2006

1080i is just nerdy penis waving for the next 5 years as far as I'm concerned. It's not worth the tradeoffs (higher price, less availability of builtin tuners, etc.) you take right now. This is debating the merits of a Ferrari Enzo vs. a Pagani Zonda, and you're just looking for a low-end BMW. Plus, you sound to be apt to move a few more times in your life fairly soon, so I'd stay far away from CRTs. My old 32" CRT was the only thing in my house I couldn't move myself, and I'm very happy with my 37" LCD now (Syntax LT37HVS, I recommend it).
posted by kcm at 8:59 AM on July 6, 2006

Whatever you decide, make sure you go to a store and see your exact model in person (if you're buying over the internet). Just looking at the screen in person will give you more of a feel for the TV than numbers on a webpage.
posted by blue_beetle at 9:07 AM on July 6, 2006

Well, fine, if I'm going to recommend it I'll say why.. Syntax has made a name lately for their products being about 80-90% of the quality of the "best" brands, such as Pioneer Elite / Samsung / Panasonic, but at 50% of the price. There are no problems with reliability, even if it seems like an "off brand".. there's a huge huge long thread at AVS Forum about this model, so you can see for yourself. I saw no reason to spend more than $1200 for a 37" LCD that was almost as good as the best if not quite there.

Plus, HDMI is essentially just DVI with audio, so while it's nice to have the same plugs everywhere as HDMI becomes standard, worst case with a set that has DVI or VGA input is that you run a converter inline for $10 with no signal loss (well, VGA would be, since it's analog). If you're piping sound to a surround sound setup, you'd never have the extra audio cable anyway.
posted by kcm at 9:08 AM on July 6, 2006

(forgot to link the AVS Forum Syntax LT37HVS thread)
posted by kcm at 9:09 AM on July 6, 2006

Thanks, KCM. Brand name is definitley not a factor. If I can trade of 25% of the quality and shave off 50% of the price, that's completely acceptable to me. I have no problem heading off-brand so long as it's not gonna leave me high and dry with an expensive picture frame two weeks after purchase.
posted by GilloD at 9:12 AM on July 6, 2006

When it comes time to get your cables you'll find that monoprice.com has a great reputation for quality and price. I use them for just about everything (including the 50 ft HDMI cable I just bought so I could move my HTPC into my server rack).
posted by friezer at 11:15 AM on July 6, 2006

I just purchased the Samsung 26" Widescreen LCD HDTV (LNS2641D) with built-in HDTV tuner and I'm loving it (I actually got it for $999 CND, not the price listed in the link).

I'm still playing around with component vs. HDMI, remotes for PVR's, DVD set-top boxes and the like so that's all still up in the air, but the TV is a thing of beauty. Not sure if 26" is the way you want to go, but it's a pretty decent size.
posted by purephase at 12:02 PM on July 6, 2006

Seconding kcm. I managed to get the Syntax 27" model on sale for $500 ($700 with two $100 rebates) and I love it. I don't think you're sacrificing 20% of the quality either; perhaps 10% (the LCD screen comes from the same manufacturer that supplies a couple of the big names, after all). I think that unless you're a real AV nut, you won't notice a difference.
posted by lackutrol at 12:10 PM on July 6, 2006

Plus, HDMI is essentially just DVI with audio, so while it's nice to have the same plugs everywhere as HDMI becomes standard, worst case with a set that has DVI or VGA input is that you run a converter inline for $10 with no signal loss (well, VGA would be, since it's analog). If you're piping sound to a surround sound setup, you'd never have the extra audio cable anyway.

DVI and HDMI will not always play together nicely with new TVs. All devices supporting HDMI must support the HDCP protection scheme, while not all DVI devices support HDCP. I'm not sure if it's happening right now, but eventually the plan is to artificially cripple the resolution of the next-generation Blueray/HDDVD players if both devices don't support HDCP. The short of it is if your TV doesn't have an HDMI slot, you could be potentially screwed down the road when you buy a new AV device and it decides to only output DVD quality video. If you're going to drop 1500 bucks on a new TV, I'd make sure it has HDMI.

When it comes time to get your cables you'll find that monoprice.com has a great reputation for quality and price. I use them for just about everything (including the 50 ft HDMI cable I just bought so I could move my HTPC into my server rack).

I totally second this. Best Buy charges 99 dollars for what you can get at monoprice.com for 5. I've got two of those 50 foot HDMI cables from them, and I've never had a single problem with either of them.
posted by Fidel Cashflow at 12:58 PM on July 6, 2006

I like the projector method. It's unobtrusive, easy to move (if and when you do), you can easily forget you have a tv, and (our) screen is 8 feet wide. YMMV, but I love it. Keep the little tv for watching the news while you eat, etc., but once you play Burnout Revenge on a 96-incher, you'll be smiling.
posted by hoborg at 4:35 PM on July 6, 2006