ticket2court?

June 11, 2006 10:56 PM

Will appearing in court for a driving ticket help me any?

I got a ticket for rolling through a stop sign a couple weeks ago. I was wondering if appearing in court would help lower the points I was charged. I've heard that if the officer who wrote the ticket doesn't go the trial you can have it cancelled. Some of the posts here also say something about exchanging driving school for points so I don't know if it's worth it.

posted by apdato to law & government (24 comments total)

A lot would depend on which jurisdiction you are in. US, I would guess from the terms you use - but which state?
posted by athenian at 11:33 PM on June 11, 2006

This is what I wrote in a thread that was related to this one. Short answer, yes it could help you. "I got a hefty speeding ticket last year, went to court not knowing what to expect, and the policeman was there basically giving everyone who was there on a first violation a chance to get a moving violation changed to a parking violation. So, I pled no contest to some terrible parking violation and managed to not get points placed on my insurance, but I still paid almost $200 for the ticket. There are good books in your local library on how to deal with tickets and it depends on the state what you can do with it."
posted by jessamyn at 11:34 PM on June 11, 2006

When I got a speeding ticket (that I really deserved), I went to court to see the process through. Not only wasn't the cop present, but the judge called everyone up who was a first time offender and told us we could pay $100 and promise not to speed for 6 months and our offenses would be wiped from the record. Fortunately, I had my checkbook with me.

Dress well, be polite, and don't argue with the judge. Half the people in the court were dressed professionally and acted politely. The other half looked (and acted) like they had just walked off the set of the Jerry Springer show. The court gave much better treatment to the polite, well dressed people.

Washington State, several years ago.
posted by b1tr0t at 11:47 PM on June 11, 2006

so in wisconsin i should plead no contest in court but if the cop doesn't appear i could plead not guilty instead?
posted by apdato at 11:48 PM on June 11, 2006

As a vetren of many speeding and parking tickets (been four years since my last ticket, thank god...) most of the advice above covers your basics.

If you show up early you maybe able to talk with the cop privately about your ticket. He likely won't remember you (these guys give out dozens of tickets a day) so be polite, show him your copy of the ticket, and ask if there is anything he can do to help you out. Sometimes the cop will make an arrangement with the judge to have the charge/fine changed or lowered.

Otherwise you maybe able to talk to the judge directly and ask for help with the ticket. I've been in traffic court before where the judge even asked me if I "need some help with the ticket."

Of course the legend is that if the "cop doesn't show" you're ticket will be thrown out. I've never seen this happen personally and I don't even think it works this way in most places. Maybe in big cities they do this... but in a small town where the judge knows the cop by his first name don't expect to get off this way.
posted by wfrgms at 12:07 AM on June 12, 2006

A handy tip for anyone living or working in any of California's large counties: You may be able to ask the cop writing the ticket to schedule your court date at the county seat rather than the local jurisdiction where you were cited:

Excerpt from CVC 40502:

The place specified in the notice to appear shall be any of the following:

(a) Before a magistrate within the county in which the offense charged is alleged to have been committed and who has jurisdiction of the offense and is nearest or most accessible with reference to the place where the arrest is made.

(b) Upon demand of the person arrested, before a judge or other magistrate having jurisdiction of the offense at the county seat of the county in which the offense is alleged to have been committed. This subdivision applies only if the person arrested resides, or the person's principal place of employment is located, closer to the county seat than to the magistrate nearest or most accessible to the place where the arrest is made.

I live in a county that covers approximately 20,000 square miles and 90% of my driving is way out in the sticks, 2-3 hours or more from the county seat. I qualify for this request (b) and the cops only show up for trial about a third of the time. It only works if you ask the cop writing the ticket to do so. You can't reschedule later.
posted by buggzzee23 at 12:14 AM on June 12, 2006

Definately go to court. I haven't had any luck with the cop not showing up (they actually called the guy when he didn't show), but it will almost surely help on either the fine or the points (or both). I don't think I've ever gone to court that it hasn't helped (veteran of a lot of tickets here).
posted by richmondparker at 4:04 AM on June 12, 2006

I went to court and the judge handed down a fine ten times the ticket price. Your mileage may vary.
posted by bonaldi at 4:25 AM on June 12, 2006

As others said, be polite, neatly dressed and remorseful. Is this your first ticket? That's in your favor, if so.

I had a four point ticket a while back (eeek) and got it cut down to two points and a fine. It's the points you care about, not the fine. And in NY at least, you could take one of those 8 hour defensive driving courses to eliminate some points and get an insurance discount (with or without any violations).

Good luck. Just politely ask the judge to cut you a break. It happens all the time.
posted by bim at 5:18 AM on June 12, 2006

One thing nobody has suggested yet: If it's easy enough for you to get a day off of work to go to court to fight the traffic ticket, try to get a second day off of work (maybe a week before your court date) and sit through a few hours of traffic court. The hearings are open to the public, and it'll give you a good idea of what to expect.
posted by gwenzel at 5:22 AM on June 12, 2006

I want to echo what others have said about being well dressed, courteous and polite etc. if you're having any kind of disagreement. Judges are people too, and you can make a very favorable impression on His/Her Honor if you look like you've decided to demonstrate a proper level of decorum and respect for a formal and adversarial situation. If you go to visit beforehand, be sure to dress for that, too; people might remember you.
posted by pax digita at 6:54 AM on June 12, 2006

I got off my ticket in Massachusetts. In MA, the police officer does not have to show up anyway, so that trick was out. I just went and acted really meek/nervous/polite/etc. and told them it was my first time and why I was irresponsibly speeding. They let me off with a warning--entire ticket fine wiped.
posted by names are hard at 6:58 AM on June 12, 2006

Of course the legend is that if the "cop doesn't show" you're ticket will be thrown out. I've never seen this happen personally and I don't even think it works this way in most places. Maybe in big cities they do this... but in a small town where the judge knows the cop by his first name don't expect to get off this way.

Well, several people have chimed in and said this, so I guess it's just me because I grew up in the Chicago area.

I got a ticket in Chicago, went to court, cop didn't show, and it was immediately thrown out because the cop didn't show up to testify against me.

It was not a speeding ticket, however, it was a ticket written for "failure to stop at stop sign" when in fact it was a stop light (which I took pictures of), and I made it through before it turned red but it was snowy out (which I couldn't prove, but I had pictures proving I couldn't possibly have rolled through a stop sign!).

As has been said many times: Be well dressed, courteous and polite. So many people aren't that you will stand out (in a big city, anyway).
posted by twiggy at 7:03 AM on June 12, 2006

Don't be a wise ass know it all. I went for a speeding ticket (through a school zone) with 8x10 glossy photos carefully selected and composed to show that the school lights were 'hidden' behind a tree... I ended up looking so silly that any chance of just paying the fine and not getting the points went right out the door.
posted by Gungho at 7:13 AM on June 12, 2006

as with twiggy, i went for a ticket in chicago and the cop didn't show and it was immediately thrown out. here in the boondocks of ohio, the cop didn't show and it didn't get thrown out. i guess you do need to find out how it works where you are. shouldn't be hard to find out by asking around, as plenty of people get tickets!
posted by lisaj32 at 8:14 AM on June 12, 2006

TicketAssassin is the bomb-diggity. Appear in court by mail.
posted by frogan at 9:02 AM on June 12, 2006

I've been told that in New Jersey the cop doesn't have to show up.
posted by exhilaration at 9:53 AM on June 12, 2006

"and ask if there is anything he can do to help you out." = BAD IDEA. That can very easily be mistaken for an attempted bribe and can go bad real fast. Do not do that.

And yes, it really does depend on where you are. I've had tickets in Solano County, Yuba County, and Yolo County (here in CA) thrown out because the cop didn't show up. They're usually CHP, though - Davis PD will *always* show up for contested tickets.

And I also quit driving like a turkey. Haven't had a ticket in 10 years.
posted by drstein at 10:30 AM on June 12, 2006

It depends on the area you are in. In some places, the court is permitted to charge you for the court's time if you contest and lose. In others, that charge is built into the ticket already.

So, just based on that, you may choose to pay the ticket, rather than possibly risk paying more.

Same thing as far as the cop showing. In some places, written testimony from the officer is acceptable. In others, if the cop is not there then the ticket is thrown out (on the basis that if the cop is not available to testify they wrote the ticket, then the ticket isn't valid).

As far as defending yourself in court, you need to have the mindset that the judge already thinks you are guilty and the officer is 100% accurate. This isn't going to really affect your life/job so the judge really isn't going to sleep badly that night if he declares you guilty for a ticket he thinks you actually didn't do. You need to either prove the officer wrong (tough without some hard evidence to back it up -- things like calculating distances and times quoted by the officer that don't match up to his speed might help, things like photos you take won't be of any use).

Or you can prove there are mistakes on the ticket or road. Basically, check the appropriate laws in that case. Not all mistakes on tickets are going to matter (dates and times are usually NOT fatal, missing signatures and incorrect plates often are). If where you live the speed signs have to be 24" high by law and you can prove they are, say, 6" high, you could prove that there actually wasn't an enforceable speed limit on the road. Things like that will work. The judges like it when you actually know the law and your rights. It makes their job much easier.

There's so many ways to approach it, you're best discovering them yourself, since, again, every state / province will be completely different. For example, where I live officers are not supposed to run speed traps in unmarked cruisers and tickets can be thrown out for that. But I know of nowhere else that this is so. Some places will let you have a jury and the right to a reasonable doubt burden of proof, where I am (Ontario) you have no right to a jury and no right to reasonable doubt (it is judged on the balance of probabilities, ie: Which side is more than 50% likely to have happened -- I've lost a ticket even though I clearly proved there was reasonable doubt the officer ticketed me for a time based offence with an accurate watch, since it was "most likely" that when the officer was on that street it was past 2:30 am on their shift [the ticket was written for 2:44 am]. The judge sorta felt bad for me, from what I could tell).
posted by shepd at 10:36 AM on June 12, 2006

You might find Nolo Press's section on traffic tickets helpful.
posted by enrevanche at 10:38 AM on June 12, 2006

In Los Angeles (the country Sheriffs and the LAPD) the officers are scheduled to appear in court as part of their work. My friend is LAPD and if he misses a court appearance his boss finds out about and he gets in major trouble.

Also, I've been to traffic court a couple times and the people who defense strategy was "I hope the cop doesn't show up" got punished by the judge for wasting everyone's time.
posted by sideshow at 11:07 AM on June 12, 2006

My friend is LAPD and if he misses a court appearance his boss finds out about and he gets in major trouble. ... the people who defense strategy was "I hope the cop doesn't show up" got punished by the judge for wasting everyone's time.

Which is why TicketAssassin recommends a trial de novo (by mail), mailed requests for postponements and mailed requests for venue changes. I'm a total cheerleader for this method because it works like nothing else.
posted by frogan at 12:17 PM on June 12, 2006

So if you got nailed by a camera and not an officer while running a red light, is there any point in going to court?
posted by DakotaPaul at 8:29 AM on June 13, 2006

>So if you got nailed by a camera and not an officer while running a red light, is there any point in going to court?

Yes. Again, depending on your jurisdiction, the court may require the officer investigating the photos and laying charges to appear. Or, if it were Ontario, depending on when the ticket were issues and what camera it came from, it may be missing the time/date that is required by law for it to be valid photo evidence. You may find a similar discrepancy for other places makes the ticket invalid. Perhaps the officer forgot to sign it? Or it was missing evidence? Heck, maybe the prosecution, when you ask for disclosure, forgets to send you the photo! No valid photo evidence = no evidence at ALL.

The court has an easier time with cops, since if they forget the radar reading, or the speed limit sign, the cop can always estimate your speed to the best of his opinion visually. With no officer on scene and only a photo to prove their case, you only have one thing to attack.

Sometimes the cameras make mistakes (can happen). Sometimes the timing of the yellow is tight enough that it is impossible to stop your roadworthy certified vehicle in time (bust out the physics textbook). (Many jurisdictions do this purposefully to extract revenue from red lights).

Or, at worst, you can try to get some mercy for the court if the light was run within milliseconds of it turning red.

Depending on where it happened, you might be able to at least prove *you* didn't do it personally. While you'd still probably have to pay the fine, it might not end up on your insurance.

But, of course, if you have to pay for the court time if you lose, you might want to reconsider.
posted by shepd at 12:23 PM on June 13, 2006