My Job Search Is STILL Nuts
September 20, 2023 5:35 AM Subscribe
So, I think that if I called in sick today because of anxiety over this, I should probably get advice. This is an update to an earlier AskMe.
So. I've been on a job hunt since a layoff in July. Very quickly I got an interview with a construction-based company ("Deck Job") near home, but the day after I interviewed there the company restructured the position to give some duties to the VP's wife. My direct boss was impressed with me, though, and since the VP's wife was on maternity leave for 2 months, he asked if he could bring me in on a contract basis for 2 months, part time. I could continue to look of course. I said sure, because hey, money.
I've been doing that since the first of August; so far so good. My job search has been going as job searches go lots of applications sent into the void, a bunch of first-round interviews that go nowhere. Then in early September Deck Job started thinking about "what the hell do we do with EC now", and that first AskMe happened. That situation I was worried about didn't manifest.
But - then my boss at Deck Job escalated things a bit, RIGHT at the time that my job search also escalated. Here's how things stand now.
* The existing position with Deck Job would still be way too low. And - they do NOT offer benefits. But - my boss had an idea; there was another open position they hadn't yet filled, and he had the idea that they could split the duties for that position between me and someone else. That might justify giving me the salary I was asking for. In addition, it could also free up $6K a year on top of that to give me towards my buying health insurance on the marketplace. I would have to get certified for something, and that may take 6 months; and in that time I would be making the lower salary. He has sent this proposition to HIS boss to see what he says about it, and is strongly encouraging me to play hardball when I negotiate with his boss.
* At the same time - I had a very, very promising first-round interview with the HR manager for another much more straightforward office manager job ("Corporate Job"), and just yesterday had the SECOND round of interviews with the person who would indeed be my boss. There are still a couple people I'd have to talk to yet, he says, but he added that I am "a strong candidate", and I already know that would already be a much better fit out of the box.
* And - I also will be finding out on Friday about A THIRD option ("Green Job"). This was a position that hadn't even been posted - the recruiter saw my LinkedIn profile and reached out to me. We've had two phone calls about this, and on Friday I will learn when the second round of interviews will happen. (And I"m pretty damn sure that's a "when" and not an "if" - several of the things the recruiter was asking me if I could do, I said "I can do that in my sleep").
This is WAY more complicated than my job hunts usually get....because on the one hand, my boss at Deck Job is trying SO HARD to make me happy, but....it's just not as good a fit as Corporate Job or Green Job. It's not that it's TERRIBLE, but it's still not as good a fit, and I just feel so GUILTY that my boss is trying so hard to make it work. But on the other hand - Corporate Job and Green Job aren't options at the moment so I don't want to say no.
I would be bored at Deck Job, even after the additional duties, and the lack of benefits has me spooked. The reduced income for half a year would be dealable, but not ideal (I wouldn't be out on the street, but my retirement savings progress would be set back by a year). The people at Deck Job aren't terrible or anything, either, but....it's definitely a "safety school" kind of thing.
I kind of want to ask my Deck Job boss to put the pause on everything for a couple weeks until I see what pans out with Corporate Job or Green Job first. (Not that I'd tell him that's why, of course.) But i hate to see him trying so hard to do something that I am pretty sure I'd only say "Yes" to if there were no other options.
HELP.
So. I've been on a job hunt since a layoff in July. Very quickly I got an interview with a construction-based company ("Deck Job") near home, but the day after I interviewed there the company restructured the position to give some duties to the VP's wife. My direct boss was impressed with me, though, and since the VP's wife was on maternity leave for 2 months, he asked if he could bring me in on a contract basis for 2 months, part time. I could continue to look of course. I said sure, because hey, money.
I've been doing that since the first of August; so far so good. My job search has been going as job searches go lots of applications sent into the void, a bunch of first-round interviews that go nowhere. Then in early September Deck Job started thinking about "what the hell do we do with EC now", and that first AskMe happened. That situation I was worried about didn't manifest.
But - then my boss at Deck Job escalated things a bit, RIGHT at the time that my job search also escalated. Here's how things stand now.
* The existing position with Deck Job would still be way too low. And - they do NOT offer benefits. But - my boss had an idea; there was another open position they hadn't yet filled, and he had the idea that they could split the duties for that position between me and someone else. That might justify giving me the salary I was asking for. In addition, it could also free up $6K a year on top of that to give me towards my buying health insurance on the marketplace. I would have to get certified for something, and that may take 6 months; and in that time I would be making the lower salary. He has sent this proposition to HIS boss to see what he says about it, and is strongly encouraging me to play hardball when I negotiate with his boss.
* At the same time - I had a very, very promising first-round interview with the HR manager for another much more straightforward office manager job ("Corporate Job"), and just yesterday had the SECOND round of interviews with the person who would indeed be my boss. There are still a couple people I'd have to talk to yet, he says, but he added that I am "a strong candidate", and I already know that would already be a much better fit out of the box.
* And - I also will be finding out on Friday about A THIRD option ("Green Job"). This was a position that hadn't even been posted - the recruiter saw my LinkedIn profile and reached out to me. We've had two phone calls about this, and on Friday I will learn when the second round of interviews will happen. (And I"m pretty damn sure that's a "when" and not an "if" - several of the things the recruiter was asking me if I could do, I said "I can do that in my sleep").
This is WAY more complicated than my job hunts usually get....because on the one hand, my boss at Deck Job is trying SO HARD to make me happy, but....it's just not as good a fit as Corporate Job or Green Job. It's not that it's TERRIBLE, but it's still not as good a fit, and I just feel so GUILTY that my boss is trying so hard to make it work. But on the other hand - Corporate Job and Green Job aren't options at the moment so I don't want to say no.
I would be bored at Deck Job, even after the additional duties, and the lack of benefits has me spooked. The reduced income for half a year would be dealable, but not ideal (I wouldn't be out on the street, but my retirement savings progress would be set back by a year). The people at Deck Job aren't terrible or anything, either, but....it's definitely a "safety school" kind of thing.
I kind of want to ask my Deck Job boss to put the pause on everything for a couple weeks until I see what pans out with Corporate Job or Green Job first. (Not that I'd tell him that's why, of course.) But i hate to see him trying so hard to do something that I am pretty sure I'd only say "Yes" to if there were no other options.
HELP.
Response by poster: To clarify - I am proceeding with the interviews because I DON'T want the Deck Job. But my boss keeps telling me about the things he's doing to try TO get me the Deck Job. Which....I don't want, unless it's the only option.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:41 AM on September 20, 2023
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:41 AM on September 20, 2023
You want a full time benefits eligible job. If you are offered it take it.
Apologize to deck job and repeat, I was looking for the above and I can't refuse this offer and leave. It isn't personal. If deck job is really invested in keeping you they will find a offer that you won't be able to refuse.
posted by AlexiaSky at 5:41 AM on September 20, 2023 [15 favorites]
Apologize to deck job and repeat, I was looking for the above and I can't refuse this offer and leave. It isn't personal. If deck job is really invested in keeping you they will find a offer that you won't be able to refuse.
posted by AlexiaSky at 5:41 AM on September 20, 2023 [15 favorites]
my boss keeps telling me about the things he's doing to try TO get me the Deck Job.
Don't set yourself on fire to keep somebody else warm.
posted by flabdablet at 5:45 AM on September 20, 2023 [35 favorites]
Don't set yourself on fire to keep somebody else warm.
posted by flabdablet at 5:45 AM on September 20, 2023 [35 favorites]
When you get your new job, send Deck Boss a nice bottle of red and a thank you note so he knows his efforts were appreciated.
posted by flabdablet at 5:46 AM on September 20, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by flabdablet at 5:46 AM on September 20, 2023 [3 favorites]
Best answer: Don't do anything! Don't tell them anything! They have not actually offered you anything. Your boss can keep doing this work to set up a viable position for someone else - the work isn't lost.
posted by restless_nomad at 5:47 AM on September 20, 2023 [33 favorites]
posted by restless_nomad at 5:47 AM on September 20, 2023 [33 favorites]
Best answer: It's definitely ok for Deck Job Boss to do this work, even if it's all for nothing because you are offered and take Green or Corporate Jobs. That's part of Deck Boss' job, to keep good employees. It's not personal. It's ok for you to take up this space. Let Deck Boss do his thing while you pursue the other opportunities.
posted by shadygrove at 5:48 AM on September 20, 2023 [34 favorites]
posted by shadygrove at 5:48 AM on September 20, 2023 [34 favorites]
Best answer: I had someone who ended up in really tough personal circumstances. I redid a job for her, added profit sharing (more $$) after a huge amount of arguing, and hired part time help a couple of evening so she could finish a certificate.
7 months later, she quit to pursue a different field.
And…it’s fine. That’s what business is. And the next person in that role is still there (over 2 years), because we figured out what we needed to do to make it a better job.
Job searching is an emotional process but you keep laser focused on your goals. It is just fine to let your boss work on improving the role you’re in, and even try to keep you personally, while you also look. It’s a slightly dumb system, but it’s the one we’ve got. Better than being the village blacksmith because your great grandfather made an anvil.
posted by warriorqueen at 5:58 AM on September 20, 2023 [25 favorites]
7 months later, she quit to pursue a different field.
And…it’s fine. That’s what business is. And the next person in that role is still there (over 2 years), because we figured out what we needed to do to make it a better job.
Job searching is an emotional process but you keep laser focused on your goals. It is just fine to let your boss work on improving the role you’re in, and even try to keep you personally, while you also look. It’s a slightly dumb system, but it’s the one we’ve got. Better than being the village blacksmith because your great grandfather made an anvil.
posted by warriorqueen at 5:58 AM on September 20, 2023 [25 favorites]
It's not as complicated as it feels! If Deck Job offers you something that's an improvement from what you have now, take it and keep looking for a job that is better FOR YOU. If Deck Job can come up with something that genuinely works for you long-term, great, but it seems very unlikely.
It's nice that your boss wants to hang on to you! It's nice that you're a catalyst for them figuring out how to make a workable full-time position! But it doesn't mean that you're obligated to Boss or Deck Job for life.
posted by mskyle at 6:02 AM on September 20, 2023 [3 favorites]
It's nice that your boss wants to hang on to you! It's nice that you're a catalyst for them figuring out how to make a workable full-time position! But it doesn't mean that you're obligated to Boss or Deck Job for life.
posted by mskyle at 6:02 AM on September 20, 2023 [3 favorites]
I've been thinking about Deck Job since your last Ask and I keep coming back to the fact that the company (except perhaps your direct boss) thinks it is perfectly fine to have someone work for them full time in a professional grown up job with no health insurance. They literally are willing to risk your health/life because they want to make more profit.
I know. I know. This is not uncommon in the US but I think it speaks to the leadership of the company.
They will always put their bottom line before you. It's up to you to protect yourself. If need be, take their job, continue to apply for other jobs and quit just as soon as you're offered one that offers benefits.
posted by mcduff at 6:03 AM on September 20, 2023 [11 favorites]
I know. I know. This is not uncommon in the US but I think it speaks to the leadership of the company.
They will always put their bottom line before you. It's up to you to protect yourself. If need be, take their job, continue to apply for other jobs and quit just as soon as you're offered one that offers benefits.
posted by mcduff at 6:03 AM on September 20, 2023 [11 favorites]
Response by poster: I've been thinking about Deck Job since your last Ask and I keep coming back to the fact that the company (except perhaps your direct boss) thinks it is perfectly fine to have someone work for them full time in a professional grown up job with no health insurance. They literally are willing to risk your health/life because they want to make more profit.
Just clarifying here - the boss shared with me that the issue is not that - he says that the company is so small that they literally DO NOT HAVE enough people who are interested in a group plan. They need eight people at minimum and they've only ever gotten three.
But - you've made me realize that it IS telling that they don't therefore automatically have "and so we also offer $X towards your health coverage on the marketplace on top of your compensation" out of the box for everyone, and the only reason my boss wants it on the table for me is because I said it was a condition.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:16 AM on September 20, 2023 [8 favorites]
Just clarifying here - the boss shared with me that the issue is not that - he says that the company is so small that they literally DO NOT HAVE enough people who are interested in a group plan. They need eight people at minimum and they've only ever gotten three.
But - you've made me realize that it IS telling that they don't therefore automatically have "and so we also offer $X towards your health coverage on the marketplace on top of your compensation" out of the box for everyone, and the only reason my boss wants it on the table for me is because I said it was a condition.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:16 AM on September 20, 2023 [8 favorites]
Best answer: I don’t really think there’s much of a conflict here. Deck job are not actually offering you anything. There’s a possibility in six months that you might get something but they’ve already shown you that they’re an organisation that will shift their own chess pieces around the board to suit themselves with no regard for what’s best for you (interview you for a position and then a few days later give half of it to the VP’s wife who is off on mat leave? Wtf?).
No matter what they say now, anything could and probably will happen in the 6 months that you’re getting certified, to make that promised job disappear, or change, or become less appealing, or get pushed back in time. Discount Deck Job from your thoughts as anything other than the safety net that you’re keeping hanging on if all else fails. Don’t get caught up in feeling obliged to your immediate boss because of his efforts.
If Corporate or Green give you a written offer, and it’s a good offer in terms of pay and benefits, they’re the best bet and you should go for them, regardless of where you’re at with Deck. Even if you’ve started working for your accreditation, you’re still allowed to leave and pursue something else instead if you get a better offer.
Everyone who looks for work is always juggling multiple possibilities and timelines, so NOBODY, including Deck (where your contract is almost up, so they must know you’re looking around) should be surprised or upset if you change your plans. After all, Deck have already shown you that they are totally happy to start out on one recruitment pathway and then abruptly change tack and let everyone down (VP’s wife!).
It’s all soooo stressful, but you’re doing fine. Be kind to yourself and don’t make yourself responsible for managing your Deck boss’s feelings. Whoever gives you an actual, right now, concrete, written job offer that you like, first, is the employer you give your loyalty to. Before that happens, you don’t owe anything to any of them.
posted by penguin pie at 6:29 AM on September 20, 2023 [16 favorites]
No matter what they say now, anything could and probably will happen in the 6 months that you’re getting certified, to make that promised job disappear, or change, or become less appealing, or get pushed back in time. Discount Deck Job from your thoughts as anything other than the safety net that you’re keeping hanging on if all else fails. Don’t get caught up in feeling obliged to your immediate boss because of his efforts.
If Corporate or Green give you a written offer, and it’s a good offer in terms of pay and benefits, they’re the best bet and you should go for them, regardless of where you’re at with Deck. Even if you’ve started working for your accreditation, you’re still allowed to leave and pursue something else instead if you get a better offer.
Everyone who looks for work is always juggling multiple possibilities and timelines, so NOBODY, including Deck (where your contract is almost up, so they must know you’re looking around) should be surprised or upset if you change your plans. After all, Deck have already shown you that they are totally happy to start out on one recruitment pathway and then abruptly change tack and let everyone down (VP’s wife!).
It’s all soooo stressful, but you’re doing fine. Be kind to yourself and don’t make yourself responsible for managing your Deck boss’s feelings. Whoever gives you an actual, right now, concrete, written job offer that you like, first, is the employer you give your loyalty to. Before that happens, you don’t owe anything to any of them.
posted by penguin pie at 6:29 AM on September 20, 2023 [16 favorites]
Best answer: I think this feels more complicated to you than it is because it involves people that are part of your every day life right now, and it feels strange to have thoughts that you're keeping to yourself. But you've done nothing wrong, and when you get a better offer, they won't be surprised that you're leaving. As stressful as it may be in this moment, once you are settled in your new position, I don't think you will look back on this one with regret.
posted by eirias at 7:05 AM on September 20, 2023 [10 favorites]
posted by eirias at 7:05 AM on September 20, 2023 [10 favorites]
Don't do anything! Don't tell them anything! They have not actually offered you anything.
This this this! And even if the current job gives you the offer, you still don't tell them about any of the others unless you have a concrete offer in hand and you are either resigning or re-negotiating.
I know, it is really hard. I'm going through a more low-key internal version of this right now, where maybe I'll be taking on a new role, but that decision process is moving glacially slow. So meanwhile I have to not just do my usual job but also make the usual commitments to coworkers about future work that would all go out the window if the new position came through, so I feel like I'm borderline lying to people all the time. It's stressful, it's awkward, and you are operating on other people's timelines, so you don't even have control over basic schedule details.
But like everyone is saying, the only correct option is to simultaneously keep negotiating at the current job to try and improve things there (which will include implicitly or explicitly making promises about the future, like plans for your certification and other commitments) while also continuing to interview for jobs that are legitimately better fits. Even if your current place makes you an acceptable offer, you should still keep looking because it sounds from your description that their best possible offer is still not going to be as good a fit as some of the other jobs you are getting interviews for.
Job searching can be a bit of a numbers game -- you often have to interview at a number of places before you find the one that "clicks," so you need to keep new opportunities coming in until you have found that better long-term setting. Don't settle for something that isn't what you deserve just because it is the first thing.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:08 AM on September 20, 2023
This this this! And even if the current job gives you the offer, you still don't tell them about any of the others unless you have a concrete offer in hand and you are either resigning or re-negotiating.
I know, it is really hard. I'm going through a more low-key internal version of this right now, where maybe I'll be taking on a new role, but that decision process is moving glacially slow. So meanwhile I have to not just do my usual job but also make the usual commitments to coworkers about future work that would all go out the window if the new position came through, so I feel like I'm borderline lying to people all the time. It's stressful, it's awkward, and you are operating on other people's timelines, so you don't even have control over basic schedule details.
But like everyone is saying, the only correct option is to simultaneously keep negotiating at the current job to try and improve things there (which will include implicitly or explicitly making promises about the future, like plans for your certification and other commitments) while also continuing to interview for jobs that are legitimately better fits. Even if your current place makes you an acceptable offer, you should still keep looking because it sounds from your description that their best possible offer is still not going to be as good a fit as some of the other jobs you are getting interviews for.
Job searching can be a bit of a numbers game -- you often have to interview at a number of places before you find the one that "clicks," so you need to keep new opportunities coming in until you have found that better long-term setting. Don't settle for something that isn't what you deserve just because it is the first thing.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:08 AM on September 20, 2023
It's very natural to feel loyalty or something like it for someone like your supervisor at Deck Job, who clearly appreciates your work and is trying very hard to make things work for you. The trick is keeping that from bleeding over into feelings about the job and organization. They're paying for your effort, and that's all they are due from you.
Your boss's job includes trying to keep good employees, and it sounds like he's good at it. Your job is to do your work and provide for yourself. If Deck Job can't provide the right conditions to make "provide for yourself" happen, that's on them. And there is nothing at all concrete on the table, they're presenting a possibility that may fall through.
Your boss's effort isn't wasted if you don't stay with the company. You've demonstrated what someone with your skills can offer, they're reexamining how they're staffing, and potentially realizing that if they're able to be flexible, they can be more competitive with future candidates like you.
posted by EvaDestruction at 7:21 AM on September 20, 2023
Your boss's job includes trying to keep good employees, and it sounds like he's good at it. Your job is to do your work and provide for yourself. If Deck Job can't provide the right conditions to make "provide for yourself" happen, that's on them. And there is nothing at all concrete on the table, they're presenting a possibility that may fall through.
Your boss's effort isn't wasted if you don't stay with the company. You've demonstrated what someone with your skills can offer, they're reexamining how they're staffing, and potentially realizing that if they're able to be flexible, they can be more competitive with future candidates like you.
posted by EvaDestruction at 7:21 AM on September 20, 2023
Best answer: Yeah, you have to remember that the company culture at Deck Job means that your boss has to work HARD to get you what is actually the bare minimum at other places. That says sooooo much about Deck Job and nothing at all about you, your values, or how you treat others.
The hardest part about this isn't what he's trying to do for you, it's that you're juggling all these different things at once -- improving Deck Job, applying elsewhere, managing interviews, keeping up with additional applications, projecting forward to where you might have to balance multiple offers, etc. Please think about how to manage *that* instead of worrying about anyone at Deck Job. Part of that probably means that you'll need to focus on being gentle with yourself because yes, things are nuts right now, but it won't always be this way. And hopefully very shortly you'll be able to settle into a better job that fits both your interests and your needs better than Deck Job ever will.
posted by BlahLaLa at 7:24 AM on September 20, 2023 [4 favorites]
The hardest part about this isn't what he's trying to do for you, it's that you're juggling all these different things at once -- improving Deck Job, applying elsewhere, managing interviews, keeping up with additional applications, projecting forward to where you might have to balance multiple offers, etc. Please think about how to manage *that* instead of worrying about anyone at Deck Job. Part of that probably means that you'll need to focus on being gentle with yourself because yes, things are nuts right now, but it won't always be this way. And hopefully very shortly you'll be able to settle into a better job that fits both your interests and your needs better than Deck Job ever will.
posted by BlahLaLa at 7:24 AM on September 20, 2023 [4 favorites]
Response by poster: No matter what they say now, anything could and probably will happen in the 6 months that you’re getting certified, to make that promised job disappear, or change, or become less appealing, or get pushed back in time.
Someone I spoke to about this IRL also made this point too. Now I'm thinking that one of the "hardball" negotiation tactics I take could be to insist on a buyout and a layoff if they don't deliver on THEIR end of the bargain like this.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:41 AM on September 20, 2023 [3 favorites]
Someone I spoke to about this IRL also made this point too. Now I'm thinking that one of the "hardball" negotiation tactics I take could be to insist on a buyout and a layoff if they don't deliver on THEIR end of the bargain like this.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:41 AM on September 20, 2023 [3 favorites]
Deck Job seems like amateur hour. Stay while you need the $, but don't hesitate to bail for something more stable, better (any!) benefits, less cronyism.
posted by Sweetie Darling at 7:58 AM on September 20, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Sweetie Darling at 7:58 AM on September 20, 2023 [1 favorite]
I've had two workplaces try to cobble together a job around me.
It didn't work either time.
The job conditions themselves were okay; the problem was that organizations tend to resist cobbled-together jobs and the people in them. This leads me to ask whether Deck Boss has anybody else in the organization invested in hiring you. It also leads me to ask whether the job contours -- both of your job and the leftover bits that will presumably become somebody else's job -- make any kind of actual sense.
I'm going with the consensus here -- Deck Job is highly unlikely to work out; take whichever of Corporate and Green makes you the best offer.
posted by humbug at 9:12 AM on September 20, 2023 [1 favorite]
It didn't work either time.
The job conditions themselves were okay; the problem was that organizations tend to resist cobbled-together jobs and the people in them. This leads me to ask whether Deck Boss has anybody else in the organization invested in hiring you. It also leads me to ask whether the job contours -- both of your job and the leftover bits that will presumably become somebody else's job -- make any kind of actual sense.
I'm going with the consensus here -- Deck Job is highly unlikely to work out; take whichever of Corporate and Green makes you the best offer.
posted by humbug at 9:12 AM on September 20, 2023 [1 favorite]
The way for a boss to take care of an employee is simple and singular: it is to pay them a generous living wage and cover their health insurance. Nothing else will save your life in a health crisis so nothing else is "care". Your boss isn't doing that, so read between the lines - you're being (warmly, soothingly) exploited. You should stay at Deck Job a short time longer while you quietly amp up your job search, and then (warmly, soothingly) make an exit to take a better job as soon as possible.
posted by nouvelle-personne at 9:53 AM on September 20, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by nouvelle-personne at 9:53 AM on September 20, 2023 [6 favorites]
Keep on keeping on with Deck Job. Maybe they will be the right or only offer. Don't spoil it pre-emptively.
Keep looking, ofc.
I don't think you would fall for this, but don't settle for Desk Job on a promise of "things will be great 6 months from now!" as 6 months from now might really mean never. If they really are offering you a better job in 6 months, then they should pay you now to be trained.
posted by jclarkin at 9:54 AM on September 20, 2023
Keep looking, ofc.
I don't think you would fall for this, but don't settle for Desk Job on a promise of "things will be great 6 months from now!" as 6 months from now might really mean never. If they really are offering you a better job in 6 months, then they should pay you now to be trained.
posted by jclarkin at 9:54 AM on September 20, 2023
my boss at Deck Job is trying SO HARD to make me happy
No, he's bumbling around trying to figure out the absolute minimum package needed to promise--not even provide!!!--to keep you. He may be a nice guy personally, but that doesn't really matter. Just keep looking. Don't tell them a thing.
posted by praemunire at 9:57 AM on September 20, 2023 [12 favorites]
No, he's bumbling around trying to figure out the absolute minimum package needed to promise--not even provide!!!--to keep you. He may be a nice guy personally, but that doesn't really matter. Just keep looking. Don't tell them a thing.
posted by praemunire at 9:57 AM on September 20, 2023 [12 favorites]
No, don't rely on promises from Deck Job. Just keep on working with them normally and keep interviewing. It would be really difficult to enforce any agreement you make regarding severance or payment if things don't work out in six months. It would also be incredibly anxiety provoking. Don't trade that anxiety for the anxiety of having to leave when you find a better job.
You deserve a job where the baseline is decent pay and medical benefits and It sounds like you'll find one too! Push through the anxiety and keep looking for a job that meets your requirements.
posted by SpaceWarp13 at 10:03 AM on September 20, 2023
You deserve a job where the baseline is decent pay and medical benefits and It sounds like you'll find one too! Push through the anxiety and keep looking for a job that meets your requirements.
posted by SpaceWarp13 at 10:03 AM on September 20, 2023
Everybody previously has great points, but I just wanted to add - you need to do whats right for you, on all angles.
1. Desk job is the job you have now, so you need to keep pushing to improve it in the short term
2. Corporate Job and/or Green Job are the jobs on the horizon for your future, so you need to keep pushing those along to improve your situation in the medium-to-long term
These two tasks are not mutually exclusive. When the time is right, you make the shift from your short term plan to your longer term plan. But you should definitely not sacrifice one for the other until its no longer needed!
posted by cgg at 10:07 AM on September 20, 2023
1. Desk job is the job you have now, so you need to keep pushing to improve it in the short term
2. Corporate Job and/or Green Job are the jobs on the horizon for your future, so you need to keep pushing those along to improve your situation in the medium-to-long term
These two tasks are not mutually exclusive. When the time is right, you make the shift from your short term plan to your longer term plan. But you should definitely not sacrifice one for the other until its no longer needed!
posted by cgg at 10:07 AM on September 20, 2023
Response by poster: I'm going with the consensus here -- Deck Job is highly unlikely to work out
I am actually hoping it doesn't, to be frank. My hope is that my boss' boss says "good idea on paper, but I'm not sure it'd work, let's just keep things at the status quo if EC can't take the job as written and she just leaves when she gets other work." Because that's heating up (in addition to Corporate Job and Green Job, just today I had someone at yet another staffing agency reach out all "Hey, saw your profile, can I talk to you about some stuff we've got going on over here?").
I'm more asking about how to keep treading water and stall Deck Job instead of committing to them at all either way. My actual hope is that the higher-ups dither so much about what to do that one of the other jobs actually makes me an offer, so I can turn around and say "whoops, something better came along, sorreeeeee!" and I bounce.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:37 AM on September 20, 2023
I am actually hoping it doesn't, to be frank. My hope is that my boss' boss says "good idea on paper, but I'm not sure it'd work, let's just keep things at the status quo if EC can't take the job as written and she just leaves when she gets other work." Because that's heating up (in addition to Corporate Job and Green Job, just today I had someone at yet another staffing agency reach out all "Hey, saw your profile, can I talk to you about some stuff we've got going on over here?").
I'm more asking about how to keep treading water and stall Deck Job instead of committing to them at all either way. My actual hope is that the higher-ups dither so much about what to do that one of the other jobs actually makes me an offer, so I can turn around and say "whoops, something better came along, sorreeeeee!" and I bounce.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:37 AM on September 20, 2023
Best answer: Your boss at Deck Job is most likely acting in HIS best interest, not yours (even though it could potentially benefit you). Your boss wants you to stay because he thinks that is best for him and his priorities. If you leave, he will still be working to create this role and establish a budget and benefits that will attract someone to fill it. You can do your job at Deck Job with integrity and excellence just by doing your best while you are working there. That is all you "owe" them.
I see though that your boss has complicated Deck Job by roping you in to the process of trying to create this new role. If you take yourself out of the picture, what would you recommend to the company regarding the role / responsibilities / salary that they are talking about? Will someone want that role? Or, are they mish mashing a different tasks such that a well qualified candidate would not be interested?
If they implemented your recommendation, how would that affect you? Would you be ok with that outcome (e.g., to accept that new role permanently (or temporarily) or for the role to remain as it is and be a 2 month role for you)? If there is a recommendation that you believe is best for the company and works for you, that would be awesome.
If those don't align, what is the risk if you tell them your honest recommendation? Can you accept that risk? For example, if it means your temporary placement is up in 2 months, can you find other temp work until you find a good permanent placement?
(After I wrote all of this, the question comes to mind, do you know what is it specifically that you are anxious about at the moment? Having long-term employment generally? Something specific to Deck Job (i.e., feeling like you have to advocate for a role you don't want)?)
posted by bruinfan at 12:08 PM on September 20, 2023
I see though that your boss has complicated Deck Job by roping you in to the process of trying to create this new role. If you take yourself out of the picture, what would you recommend to the company regarding the role / responsibilities / salary that they are talking about? Will someone want that role? Or, are they mish mashing a different tasks such that a well qualified candidate would not be interested?
If they implemented your recommendation, how would that affect you? Would you be ok with that outcome (e.g., to accept that new role permanently (or temporarily) or for the role to remain as it is and be a 2 month role for you)? If there is a recommendation that you believe is best for the company and works for you, that would be awesome.
If those don't align, what is the risk if you tell them your honest recommendation? Can you accept that risk? For example, if it means your temporary placement is up in 2 months, can you find other temp work until you find a good permanent placement?
(After I wrote all of this, the question comes to mind, do you know what is it specifically that you are anxious about at the moment? Having long-term employment generally? Something specific to Deck Job (i.e., feeling like you have to advocate for a role you don't want)?)
posted by bruinfan at 12:08 PM on September 20, 2023
This is lateral to your question but - if things were quiet in July and Aug, keep in mind that hiring often halts over the summer for a ton of reasons. It may not indicate any softness in a need for your skills, just bad timing.
posted by warriorqueen at 12:28 PM on September 20, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by warriorqueen at 12:28 PM on September 20, 2023 [2 favorites]
Best answer: I'm more asking about how to keep treading water and stall Deck Job instead of committing to them at all either way.
Sounds to me like you're already doing that. Normally I'd suggest smiling whenever they bring it up and saying "I look forward to receiving a formal offer in writing!" -- but the danger is that they might actually produce one.
So I'd suggest sticking to the most banal smalltalk possible, "thanks for letting me know!" and "I appreciate hearing this" and so on. Don't commit. Just smile.
posted by humbug at 3:02 PM on September 20, 2023 [2 favorites]
Sounds to me like you're already doing that. Normally I'd suggest smiling whenever they bring it up and saying "I look forward to receiving a formal offer in writing!" -- but the danger is that they might actually produce one.
So I'd suggest sticking to the most banal smalltalk possible, "thanks for letting me know!" and "I appreciate hearing this" and so on. Don't commit. Just smile.
posted by humbug at 3:02 PM on September 20, 2023 [2 favorites]
Take literally anything else other than Deck Job if you can get it. Only take Deck Job if it's actually offered to you and you have no other options, then leave if you get better options. Don't believe anything Deck Job says unless it actually comes through.
Honestly, pretty simple. Play the waiting game, keep your mouth shut, Deck Job is the last ditch option.
posted by jenfullmoon at 4:07 PM on September 20, 2023 [1 favorite]
Honestly, pretty simple. Play the waiting game, keep your mouth shut, Deck Job is the last ditch option.
posted by jenfullmoon at 4:07 PM on September 20, 2023 [1 favorite]
Even if you commit, people leave jobs all the time for all sorts of reasons from family stuff to better offers to personal grievances, staffing issues, and on and on and on. Honestly if you keep it non personal and leave gracefully it won't cause a stir worth remembering.
posted by AlexiaSky at 6:17 PM on September 20, 2023
posted by AlexiaSky at 6:17 PM on September 20, 2023
Deck Job knows they have a good thing - someone who does work for much less than they ought to be paid. Of course they want to keep you! Of course they want to do it at the least cost! They've worked out that unfunded long term open ended promises cost them nothing.
Your manager may or may not realise that, but I would not trust the company to actually follow through even if he extracts verbal promises - they're not promises to you, and even if they were they're not worth the paper they aren't written on. You quit after six months? Fine, that's still six months of good employee for bad pay, which is worth it to them.
posted by How much is that froggie in the window at 10:27 PM on September 20, 2023
Your manager may or may not realise that, but I would not trust the company to actually follow through even if he extracts verbal promises - they're not promises to you, and even if they were they're not worth the paper they aren't written on. You quit after six months? Fine, that's still six months of good employee for bad pay, which is worth it to them.
posted by How much is that froggie in the window at 10:27 PM on September 20, 2023
Response by poster: OH THANK GOD -
My direct boss took me aside today "to give me an update", and I finally figured out why he was being so gung-ho about getting this hammered out.
Since my part-time contract technically ends in a week, he thought I was sitting around scared they'd throw me out on my ear and he was trying to get things settled before then. "But it's going to be at least two weeks before the president and VP can even START to talk about what's happening," he said, looking all concerned. "So would you be okay if we just extended your contract a few more weeks, so they have the time to hash that all out?"
I told him oh yeah, totally, I get it, these things take time it's all good tralala. He even said that in the meantime I could - and SHOULD - still be going on job interviews and such, "because hey, right now you technically are not our employee and should be looking out for yourself."
So the poor guy was bending over backwards trying to spare me from worry and was ironically MAKING me worry.
But instead we can keep doing what we've been doing for a few more weeks, where I use them as a backup temp option while I look for other work - and I've won more time to lure someone else to come along and swipe me, which is what I was hoping would happen. It's STILL entirely possible that sometime mid-to-late October I'll get some kind of offer, but there's now a MUCH stronger possibility that I'd get a better offer a couple days later instead of like THREE WEEKS later, so the situation can resolve way more gracefully. Phew.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:39 PM on September 21, 2023 [6 favorites]
My direct boss took me aside today "to give me an update", and I finally figured out why he was being so gung-ho about getting this hammered out.
Since my part-time contract technically ends in a week, he thought I was sitting around scared they'd throw me out on my ear and he was trying to get things settled before then. "But it's going to be at least two weeks before the president and VP can even START to talk about what's happening," he said, looking all concerned. "So would you be okay if we just extended your contract a few more weeks, so they have the time to hash that all out?"
I told him oh yeah, totally, I get it, these things take time it's all good tralala. He even said that in the meantime I could - and SHOULD - still be going on job interviews and such, "because hey, right now you technically are not our employee and should be looking out for yourself."
So the poor guy was bending over backwards trying to spare me from worry and was ironically MAKING me worry.
But instead we can keep doing what we've been doing for a few more weeks, where I use them as a backup temp option while I look for other work - and I've won more time to lure someone else to come along and swipe me, which is what I was hoping would happen. It's STILL entirely possible that sometime mid-to-late October I'll get some kind of offer, but there's now a MUCH stronger possibility that I'd get a better offer a couple days later instead of like THREE WEEKS later, so the situation can resolve way more gracefully. Phew.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:39 PM on September 21, 2023 [6 favorites]
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posted by restless_nomad at 5:38 AM on September 20, 2023 [22 favorites]