Lawyers of Metafilter, lend me your confidence
July 24, 2023 12:33 PM Subscribe
I have been a "practicing" attorney for over 20 years now but I have never been deeply involved in litigation except behind the scenes (i.e. drafting briefs, complaints). I have never taken a deposition, never appeared in court, and never handled serious settlement negotiations. I know why this is which is that I am deeply averse to people getting angry with me. Help me get over this.
I have narrowed down why the thought of engaging in typical lawyer things gives me the anxieties to a lack of confidence and the conviction that whatever I do will be met with "how dare she get in my face and accuse me".
What I'm looking for are strategies, anecdotes, readings, etc on how to essentially own the power that I have and use it for building up my confidence in this area. I really feel like this has held me back in my profession as I have settled for jobs that do not require a lot of confrontation. I want to change this since I feel like I can do so much more with my law degree.
Obligatory background: I am in therapy and actively working on self-esteem issues related to growing up as an only child with a controlling father and passive mother. I was on the receiving end from my dad of silent treatment, being told to "stop bragging" about my accomplishments (including a few weeks ago at the ripe age of 47!) and to essentially stop taking up so much space. Topics of work for therapy in this vein are also most welcome!
I have narrowed down why the thought of engaging in typical lawyer things gives me the anxieties to a lack of confidence and the conviction that whatever I do will be met with "how dare she get in my face and accuse me".
What I'm looking for are strategies, anecdotes, readings, etc on how to essentially own the power that I have and use it for building up my confidence in this area. I really feel like this has held me back in my profession as I have settled for jobs that do not require a lot of confrontation. I want to change this since I feel like I can do so much more with my law degree.
Obligatory background: I am in therapy and actively working on self-esteem issues related to growing up as an only child with a controlling father and passive mother. I was on the receiving end from my dad of silent treatment, being told to "stop bragging" about my accomplishments (including a few weeks ago at the ripe age of 47!) and to essentially stop taking up so much space. Topics of work for therapy in this vein are also most welcome!
I knew a lawyer who belonged to a group of lawyers that met on a regular basis to do ... confidence-building exercises? How he described it was, "I have an obligation to do anything that is lawful and that is in my client's interest, whether I'm comfortable doing it or not. If standing on a chair and singing 'Memory' in open court would help my client win their case, I should absolutely do that. So once a month we get together and make a fool out of ourselves in front of each other to get comfortable with being outside of our comfort zones."
My recollection was that this group was somehow an offshoot of Gerry Spence's Trial Lawyers College, so maybe that is a starting place?
posted by gauche at 12:42 PM on July 24, 2023 [9 favorites]
My recollection was that this group was somehow an offshoot of Gerry Spence's Trial Lawyers College, so maybe that is a starting place?
posted by gauche at 12:42 PM on July 24, 2023 [9 favorites]
This is only tangentially responsive to your ask... I work in a biglaw firm with circa 300 attorneys & our bread and butter is complex commercial litigation and other kinds of "conflict-based" work. The reason I bring this up is that plenty of attorneys never see the inside of a courtroom, take depositions, engage in oral argument, etc. Even so-called "litigators" do most of their work in motion practice. It's absolutely possible to have a personally and financially rewarding career as an attorney whose practice doesn't require you to be cool with confrontation and people getting angry at you.
posted by slkinsey at 1:07 PM on July 24, 2023 [9 favorites]
posted by slkinsey at 1:07 PM on July 24, 2023 [9 favorites]
Best answer: A lot of the confrontation that lawyers encounter with each other is something of a performance - it's debate (in the academic competitive sense) as stage play. Maybe while you're tracking down lawyers to practice with, you could find your local comedy scene and figure out where the improv classes are. Level 1 is alllllll about breaking down performance anxiety and practicing being a complete goof in front of other people. It's like martial arts, but for cringe. But you will learn a lot about how to start controlling your mindset and calibrating your energy and presentation. You will also learn how to take a shot and have it fail and experience totally not dying from it.
Make some friends and/or ask around the instructors to see if you can find some people to play-fight with you. You'd be amazed how different you feel after you've tried having deliberate screaming matches with other people about crocs, or quality control at the unicorn factory, or a heated mock trial of oatmeal-raisin cookies that look like chocolate chip cookies.
Having people mad at you is a learned skill. Most people are not naturally good at confrontation, or are only compartmentally very good at it in extremely specific contexts - because that's the one they have lots of experience in. I know teachers who can slightly raise one eyebrow at literally anything that literally or figuratively comes out of someone under 20 years old, but can't send back a salad with a bug in it. My mother signed the two of us up for self-defense classes when I was about to get my driver's license, and the first class we took turns screaming in each others' faces to retrain our freeze response, and 30 years later my face still (even though I am otherwise frightened of physical threats) does "excuse the fuck out of me?" instead of "aaargh!!" if someone gets up in my business, as I prepare myself to break their nose or knee.
It's all just practice. That's how the military and airline pilots and bouncers do it, that's how journalists do it, that's how the public spokespersons at every level prepare to be in the line of fire. There is definitely the occasional personality type that really vibes on a fight and some of those people become lawyers. As others have observed, there's a ton of legal work that isn't Big Fighting and that's an option too, but still if you are looking for general confidence in your life just know that practice, including practicing better ways to frame this stuff in your head, is how you get it. There's no Self-Esteem Fairy or even Thick Skin Fairy that's going to come fart under your pillow; there's no book you can read that's going to convey it wholesale.
posted by Lyn Never at 1:15 PM on July 24, 2023 [15 favorites]
Make some friends and/or ask around the instructors to see if you can find some people to play-fight with you. You'd be amazed how different you feel after you've tried having deliberate screaming matches with other people about crocs, or quality control at the unicorn factory, or a heated mock trial of oatmeal-raisin cookies that look like chocolate chip cookies.
Having people mad at you is a learned skill. Most people are not naturally good at confrontation, or are only compartmentally very good at it in extremely specific contexts - because that's the one they have lots of experience in. I know teachers who can slightly raise one eyebrow at literally anything that literally or figuratively comes out of someone under 20 years old, but can't send back a salad with a bug in it. My mother signed the two of us up for self-defense classes when I was about to get my driver's license, and the first class we took turns screaming in each others' faces to retrain our freeze response, and 30 years later my face still (even though I am otherwise frightened of physical threats) does "excuse the fuck out of me?" instead of "aaargh!!" if someone gets up in my business, as I prepare myself to break their nose or knee.
It's all just practice. That's how the military and airline pilots and bouncers do it, that's how journalists do it, that's how the public spokespersons at every level prepare to be in the line of fire. There is definitely the occasional personality type that really vibes on a fight and some of those people become lawyers. As others have observed, there's a ton of legal work that isn't Big Fighting and that's an option too, but still if you are looking for general confidence in your life just know that practice, including practicing better ways to frame this stuff in your head, is how you get it. There's no Self-Esteem Fairy or even Thick Skin Fairy that's going to come fart under your pillow; there's no book you can read that's going to convey it wholesale.
posted by Lyn Never at 1:15 PM on July 24, 2023 [15 favorites]
I am not a lawyer. I did read a book by a lawyer that I think addresses some of the issues which you are facing and which contained arguments about how to argue that were compelling to me. I'd recommend taking a look at "How to Argue & Win Every Time", by Gerry Spence. You can pick it up used for pretty cheap.
posted by procrastination at 1:53 PM on July 24, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by procrastination at 1:53 PM on July 24, 2023 [2 favorites]
I do want to chime in with what others are saying--Big Fighting (thanks, Lyn) is only one type of lawyering, other types are perfectly valid and frankly often more useful, and if you've found job(s) you like and whose salary you can live off of without doing Big Fighting, that's okay.
Additionally, there are some litigators who are quite successful even with a calm, quasi-scholarly style. One of the first partners I ever worked for projected a magisterial air in court that (coupled with the tremendous prep work he insisted on) meant that you could visibly see the judge growing to rely on him. Now, he was a white man with a slight Southern accent so he could wrap himself in patriarchal expectations--but I rarely saw him raise his voice, and I shadowed him for many many hours. The women's version, I'm still working on, but basically everyone has to cultivate a litigator persona to put on top of their actual personalities, and there is a wide range of performances that can work.
Finally, do keep in mind that, especially in civil litigation, most of the opposing counsel who act like they're mad at you are just being blustering assholes trying to scare you. They're not mad mad. They're beta males who've learned that loud yapping intimidates some. You haven't hurt their feelings or done the wrong thing! They just don't like what you did or said. But you're opposing counsel. It's your job to do and say things they don't like. Tough noogies, boys.
posted by praemunire at 2:09 PM on July 24, 2023 [9 favorites]
Additionally, there are some litigators who are quite successful even with a calm, quasi-scholarly style. One of the first partners I ever worked for projected a magisterial air in court that (coupled with the tremendous prep work he insisted on) meant that you could visibly see the judge growing to rely on him. Now, he was a white man with a slight Southern accent so he could wrap himself in patriarchal expectations--but I rarely saw him raise his voice, and I shadowed him for many many hours. The women's version, I'm still working on, but basically everyone has to cultivate a litigator persona to put on top of their actual personalities, and there is a wide range of performances that can work.
Finally, do keep in mind that, especially in civil litigation, most of the opposing counsel who act like they're mad at you are just being blustering assholes trying to scare you. They're not mad mad. They're beta males who've learned that loud yapping intimidates some. You haven't hurt their feelings or done the wrong thing! They just don't like what you did or said. But you're opposing counsel. It's your job to do and say things they don't like. Tough noogies, boys.
posted by praemunire at 2:09 PM on July 24, 2023 [9 favorites]
Best answer: I'm a lawyer in practice 20+ years who practices probate and does not litigate. I'll attend hearings, but they aren't contested ones. I tell potential clients I do not take contested matters. When I was a younger attorney I too felt (very) bad about myself for not possessing litigation skills, but I've since accepted that I am not built to be a litigator, and that's ok. I actually enjoy that I don't have to litigate. There is plenty to be done in law that doesn't require fighting others, and lord knows this world has plenty of fighting in it already.
Plus, because I don't litigate, I find I have more of the "softer" skills that clients appreciate - listening, empathy, compassion and time for them personally. I find that tends to be lost with some litigators. Not all, but I find litigators tend to have a certain personality type. There is a place for you as-is in the legal profession.
I know this doesn't answer your direct question, but I felt you on this question.
posted by Saucywench at 2:18 PM on July 24, 2023 [10 favorites]
Plus, because I don't litigate, I find I have more of the "softer" skills that clients appreciate - listening, empathy, compassion and time for them personally. I find that tends to be lost with some litigators. Not all, but I find litigators tend to have a certain personality type. There is a place for you as-is in the legal profession.
I know this doesn't answer your direct question, but I felt you on this question.
posted by Saucywench at 2:18 PM on July 24, 2023 [10 favorites]
I find it much, much easier to be confrontational or to have people angry at me when the topic at issue isn't about me. That is, in situations where I might be reticent to fight on my own behalf, I can work up a pretty good outrage about the way someone else is being treated or what they're entitled to, and fight for them. I still feel bad when I call my cable company to dispute a wrongful charge on my bill, but not when I call opposing counsel to demand compliance with a deadline. You might find the same thing.
posted by decathecting at 2:20 PM on July 24, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by decathecting at 2:20 PM on July 24, 2023 [5 favorites]
I'm a lawyer, in practice for 10 years, mostly litigation, and I do not like to fight. I'm also a man, so I haven't had to deal with the same received gender bullshit you have.
The problem you describe is something I work on regularly with my therapist. The one thing that has helped me most is to treat the fighting as nothing more than my job. My therapist helps me by listening to what I say and then reflecting on whether the things I'm saying are illustrating a healthy conception of my job. When I say things that prompt angry responses from certain opposing counsel or adverse parties, I'm not saying those things because I want to but because I am doing my job.
Because of my calm and quiet temperament, I have also had collegial relationships with opposing counsel. Being nonconfrontational also helps in a deposition 95% of the time. (Five percent or so of every deposition has to be confrontational, but that's just the job.)
Can your therapist help you play out scenarios? Can you take a case that will put you in the courtroom to start practicing? Can you and a trusted colleague role-play some confrontational scenarios?
posted by Handstand Devil at 2:55 PM on July 24, 2023 [8 favorites]
The problem you describe is something I work on regularly with my therapist. The one thing that has helped me most is to treat the fighting as nothing more than my job. My therapist helps me by listening to what I say and then reflecting on whether the things I'm saying are illustrating a healthy conception of my job. When I say things that prompt angry responses from certain opposing counsel or adverse parties, I'm not saying those things because I want to but because I am doing my job.
Because of my calm and quiet temperament, I have also had collegial relationships with opposing counsel. Being nonconfrontational also helps in a deposition 95% of the time. (Five percent or so of every deposition has to be confrontational, but that's just the job.)
Can your therapist help you play out scenarios? Can you take a case that will put you in the courtroom to start practicing? Can you and a trusted colleague role-play some confrontational scenarios?
posted by Handstand Devil at 2:55 PM on July 24, 2023 [8 favorites]
Not sure if anyone mentioned this, but take a pro bono case! A short, defined case like an unemployment benefit appeal or housing court. I don’t think you can think your way out of your fear, but you’ll feel differently when you are in court and representing someone.
I’m not afraid of confrontation exactly, but I do have a serious anxiety condition. When I have gone to court or dealt with opposing counsel, I was always sustained by feeling like I believed in my client (or told myself that I was developing skills to eventually represent a client I believed in.)
At the end of the day - you are an *advocate.* The conflict is not about you personally- it’s about your client.
posted by haptic_avenger at 4:47 PM on July 24, 2023 [6 favorites]
I’m not afraid of confrontation exactly, but I do have a serious anxiety condition. When I have gone to court or dealt with opposing counsel, I was always sustained by feeling like I believed in my client (or told myself that I was developing skills to eventually represent a client I believed in.)
At the end of the day - you are an *advocate.* The conflict is not about you personally- it’s about your client.
posted by haptic_avenger at 4:47 PM on July 24, 2023 [6 favorites]
Along the lines of what praemunire and Handstand Devil said: I firmly believe that a non-confrontational style is the most effective one -- in a deposition, in the courtroom, and in everyday dealings with opposing counsel. One of the most incredible trial lawyers that I've been lucky to work with is invariably calm, even-tempered, respectful, collegial. And he gets exactly what he needs out of witnesses. In my view, confrontational types just make things harder for themselves (and others).
posted by leeloo minai at 5:52 PM on July 24, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by leeloo minai at 5:52 PM on July 24, 2023 [2 favorites]
Following up what gauche said you might find it helpful to join a local branch of Toastmasters, to gain confidence in speaking out. I made a real fool of myself speaking at Toastmasters, and ended up enjoying the fact that I could. Obviously this misses the "people getting angry" bit but it may be a useful step, because what you really want to be able to do is make your presentation while ignoring or not caring how other people react.
posted by anadem at 5:56 PM on July 24, 2023
posted by anadem at 5:56 PM on July 24, 2023
The Courage to be Disliked It is a "Japanese phenomena" and consists of a long dialogue based on Adlerian psychology. It gets mixed reviews.
posted by mecran01 at 9:13 AM on July 25, 2023
posted by mecran01 at 9:13 AM on July 25, 2023
I have a bunch of lawyer friends and work with lawyers. One really went through it when dealing with the emotions they felt when confrontational opposing counsel really yelled at them but then suddenly emerged being hard to rattle and with the same newfound de-escalatory conversational skills that I see in the lawyers I work with. Not sure this is helpful, but it's basically to say that you can do it.
Personally I find hard exercise to be helpful in preparing myself to deal with conflict at work. Something about the pain of it helps me be less pain-averse (in this case the emotional pain/fear of conflict) elsewhere in my life. I've occasionally even noticed that I've dropped into a breathing pattern that I use when I'm in an intense part of the exercise when I'm in a stressful situation at work without even thinking about it.
posted by slidell at 11:58 PM on July 25, 2023
Personally I find hard exercise to be helpful in preparing myself to deal with conflict at work. Something about the pain of it helps me be less pain-averse (in this case the emotional pain/fear of conflict) elsewhere in my life. I've occasionally even noticed that I've dropped into a breathing pattern that I use when I'm in an intense part of the exercise when I'm in a stressful situation at work without even thinking about it.
posted by slidell at 11:58 PM on July 25, 2023
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posted by sardonyx at 12:39 PM on July 24, 2023 [1 favorite]