How worried to be about a 15 year old?
February 21, 2023 3:05 AM   Subscribe

Our 15 y.o. boy is very bright and usually happy, but he has gotten into some trouble recently. Looking for thoughts on how far we should go in trying to help him correct course.

To try to keep this brief - he's very smart, he has always attended test-in schools for academically advanced kids, he is socially/emotionally immature, and he does not currently have a strong everyday friend group. He changed schools last year to go a larger high school that is for "advanced" kids but is also more diverse and less sheltered than his elementary. Some of the kids at the new school are "faster" than his old peer group - i.e., there are drugs and drinking and other teen problems at the new high school, not in a horrible way, but more like normal high school issues in contrast to his somewhat sheltered elementary. He had strong friendships in elementary that he has not yet replicated in high school. He keeps in touch with the elementary kids, but they are not at the same school.

Over the past 3 weeks, the following has happened: (1) he out of nowhere took a THC gummy and became very ill (throwing up for hours etc) because it was much too strong - we learned about it after he became sick -- he has no prior history of anything like this; (2) he was caught pulling a fire alarm in a different school (not his own school) and he is in huge trouble with both schools as a result; (3) he was caught throwing a match into a dumpster/trashcan in a parking lot, causing a small fire in the can that did not hurt anybody/any property, and was far away from any people/structures (i.e., he was not trying to hurt anyone). Incidents 2 and 3 were caught on video cameras. When pressed, he says he does not know why he did any of these things. He says he is not depressed or anxious about anything in particular. It seems like these may all be impulsive poor decisions that he made.

We don't know what is causing this type of behavior, but we suspect he is trying to fit in with or one-up other kids on social media for social attention. Apparently, goofing around in other high schools on social media is a thing. He denies that any specific kid put him up to these things, though I think incidents 1 and 3 may have involved the same kid helping him obtain (or selling him) the gummy and being with him/daring him with the matches incident. He denies that anyone specifically egged him into this, though.

We have currently taken away all of his phone/social media access, we have signed him up for a counseling program, and we are going to have him do community service to make up for the disruption at the other high school.

My questions are:

(a) How big of deal do you think this stuff is? I broke the rules as a teen but by and large I did not get caught. I can't say he has done anything worse than I ever did, but exposing yourself to getting caught on video camera just seems incredibly stupid and/or like his frontal cortex is not working. But sometimes I think that if I heard about this stuff a year or two from now - i.e., if he had not been caught -- it would just seem like normal teen boneheaded foolery. The most disturbing part to me in some ways is that he is getting caught - not because I condone the conduct, but all teens break rules - the part where he gets caught makes me think he is exercising very poor judgment about consequences. I.e., it's one thing to have a beer in a friend's basement or TP a car or whatever, it's another thing to sneak into a school and pull an alarm. The latter is much more likely to get you caught and in a lot of trouble with authorities. It's like he is making bad choices about mischief.

(b) Is it wrong to think there is a "downward spiral" type of pattern here, where the behavior just keeps getting more out of control? That is what has us most worried about him. The gummy preceded the fire alarm and trash fire situation by about a week. We had a huge "you need to reform your ways" effort with him in the intervening week, only to run right into these additional incidents.

(c) We have now grounded him in a severe way for the past 4 days or so - after all 3 incidents came out - no phone, no social media, no seeing kids, etc. And he seems really happy. He is reading books, hanging out with us, watching movies with us, etc. I think this means that social media/social pressure has really scrambled his head. I am tempted to impose some long term restrictions on further social media (i.e., no Snap at all). Too much? I don't want to make it too hard for him to form good friendships, but he seems very confused/scrambled by being loose in the pool of teen social nonsense.

Any other thoughts? Just bad luck for a teen, or troubling series of events?
posted by anonymous to Human Relations (32 answers total) 8 users marked this as a favorite
 
So for what it is worth I have friends who engaged in the same kind of behavior who now live incredibly boring, normal, successful lives. I know the term "it is a phase" is cliche but I think that's a large part of it as i'm sure you're aware. That said, when my parents expressed concern either negative or positive it gave me attention which I craved. When they acted like I was, for lack of a better term, trash, for engaging in bad behavior and basically ignored me suddenly I felt guilty.

I would not put too much of an emphasis on social media because each generation has their own version of social media. It sounds like he needs a break and is enjoying hanging out with you which is great, but don't be fooled, it is a break. He needs to learn how to get approval within his peer group that doesn't involve petty teenage vandalism. That might be a journey he will have to navigate himself and the best you can do is give him the tools and support to do so.
posted by geoff. at 3:35 AM on February 21, 2023 [9 favorites]


I think the gummy thing is totally normal and no big deal. The fire alarm and fire stuff is huge because they hurt others and also can result in a felony for him. That stuff absolutely must be stopped but are not a sign that he’s a bad kid with a bad future. Taking away his phone for a period of time is definitely a good consequence and counseling also a smart necessity. I’m sure other kids are involved but they’re not your responsibility— you could always reach out to their parents with your shared concerns but it may or may not help. Schools do very little in terms of consequences these days, which is bad for safety but good for avoiding legal action re: fire. Keep working with your son and please tell him frequently how much you love him, that you know he’s struggling, and that you all are going to work together to help him do well and also feel better. And keep listening, spending time together, and more. I’m sorry that you all are dealing with this right now: 2023 is an incredibly hard time to be a teen and to be a parent! I’m speaking as a public schoolteacher who is watching many kids and families struggle! <3
posted by smorgasbord at 3:41 AM on February 21, 2023 [7 favorites]


"like his frontal cortex is not working"

I mean, his prefrontal cortex literally won't be heavily involved in his decision making until he's in his 20s, so that's exactly what's happening.

"it's one thing to have a beer in a friend's basement or TP a car or whatever, it's another thing to sneak into a school and pull an alarm. The latter is much more likely to get you caught and in a lot of trouble with authorities. It's like he is making bad choices about mischief."

Yup, he's making bad choices because he can't think ahead to consequences and then can't prioritize those consequences in relation to the social and emotional demands of the situations he's involved in. For you, it's completely clear that having a beer in a friend's basement is of a different category of severity from pulling a fire alarm, but he has both less contextual knowledge of why that might be and less ability to make a judgement call based on the difference between those two things. A kid doesn't even need to be pressured into something like taking a weed gummy – opportunity and a whiff of social/emotional reward is more than enough, because he's literally thinking with parts of his brain that aren't equipped to do more than that.

I'm not and never will be a parent, but I am a teacher, and I guess I'd ask you what goals you want to reach by restricting his social interactions. Is it just preventing further exposure to ideas that he might act on impulsively and hoping he'll develop better coping skills? Is it to press pause on those influences while you actively help him reflect on things he's done and try to create new habits and ways of thinking? Or are there other ways to help him gain self-monitoring and reflection skills that might throw up a mental warning sign the next time an opportunity or a bad judgement comes along? And are there professionals who can give you constructive ways to build those skills without sacrificing his growing need for autonomy or your relationship with him?
posted by wakannai at 3:44 AM on February 21, 2023 [17 favorites]


Look, this stuff is hard.

But what stands out to me in your post is that you seem really focused on your kid not being smart enough (particularly not smart enough not to get caught). And you seem to be focused on social media rewiring his brain.

If this were my kid, I’d be worried about what he’s feeling, where he’s getting (or learning to develop) his self-worth, how he experiences his friendships, what’s going on with him. Basically - why, at this point in his life, is he choosing to become a (young) man who goes to these extremes for social cred. (The fire alarm, and maybe the fire. But mostly the alarm.)

Stupid stuff is stupid stuff, but the choices do matter, and why he’s making them. Getting that information from a kid is like nigh on impossible. But that’s what I would be thinking about. I would be worried about his values if he’s fine with disrupting a school with a fire alarm for social media cred. And I wouldn’t be asking why he was being dumb. I would be asking him what kind of person does he want to be. (I wouldn’t expect an answer.)

Basically…how to put this…if your biggest concern is that he got caught/how it looks, it’s kind of not a surprise that he’s willing to go to extremes to look a certain way on social media? The issue is, why does that trump his care for others and fire safety and all that.

Also you’ve talked about school and friends but what else is your kid into? Is he looking for something else to express himself with or be passionate about?

I think social media is a bit of a red herring in that…a motivated kid will have no trouble scrolling through a friend’s TikTok. If you cut your kid off, he’ll find a way to continue to try to get power/control/notoriety/excitement or whatever it is from possibly not-great sources.

I think you’re looking for a quick fix - no social media and signing him up for counseling. I think counseling is good and maybe limiting social media, so that he does have time and space to find other stuff to do. But I think there’s a bigger job here to do - get to know him a bit better, lovingly, and look for ways he can express whatever he’s got going on a bit more positively. I can’t say what that is without knowing him.
posted by warriorqueen at 3:58 AM on February 21, 2023 [41 favorites]


I'm wondering what his relationships with his peers are like? Doing something illegal because it's kind of exciting and a way of exploring boundaries with friends you have fun with who respect you is very different to doing it because you've been manipulated into because you're isolated for instance. And when it's so linked to him getting into trouble he might not want to talk that much about how he's getting on with peers but I would be thinking about how you can foster an environment what he can take normal teenage risks with friends and have fun. Maybe that means connecting over interests outside of school based on what he's into.
posted by mosswinter at 4:07 AM on February 21, 2023 [5 favorites]


Umm, not an expert but this sounds a lot like an ADHD assessment would be no harm. Academic performance isn't the indicator people often think that it and your kid may be really struggling with something that can really be addressed and improved.

I'd also try to find him an activity outside school like a team or a band class or something to widen his peer group.
posted by DarlingBri at 4:13 AM on February 21, 2023 [28 favorites]


Umm, not an expert but this sounds a lot like an ADHD assessment would be no harm. Academic performance isn't the indicator people often think that it and your kid may be really struggling with something that can really be addressed and improved.

Yes, this was my thought as well.
posted by chariot pulled by cassowaries at 4:17 AM on February 21, 2023 [1 favorite]


The book Button Pusher by Tyler Page, a memoir by someone with ADHD, gives excellent examples of how ADHD can contribute to the sort of behaviour you're talking about.

He is bringing a small pocket knife to school for show and tell. On the school bus he thinks "I wonder what sound the upholstery would make if I ripped it with the pocket knife?" and the next thing he knows he has ripped the upholstery with the knife, and when adults ask him why he did that, he says "I don't know" because he genuinely doesn't know.
posted by chariot pulled by cassowaries at 4:24 AM on February 21, 2023 [3 favorites]


We have now grounded him in a severe way for the past 4 days ..... And he seems really happy

So this jumped out to me.

If he is perfectly happy at home with you and doesn't seem to mind being grounded that suggests he's finding the alternatives quite stressful, no?

How confident are you that he's settling into this new school? It is the end of February so presumably he's been there for half a school year now. He should be starting to find his place. But maybe he's not.

Exploring that a bit more, why is he at a different school from his old friends now? As you say the old school was also selective I assume their new school may have also been an option for your son. Clearly I may be wrong.
posted by koahiatamadl at 4:29 AM on February 21, 2023 [23 favorites]


Can he go back to his old school where his old friends are? It sounds like he's fallen in with a bad crowd at the new school, and at his age they have way more influence on his morals than you do.
posted by Jacqueline at 5:07 AM on February 21, 2023 [5 favorites]


The fire alarm and especially setting a fire (!!) is really alarming. It's not so much about the likelihood of getting caught (although that's part of it) but the fact that those actions, unlike the THC gummy, affect other people.

All of it sounds like something a teen might do on a dare -- and of course he's not going to rat out the people he wants to impress or are hazing him. You characterize him as socially/emotionally immature for his age, but it's developmentally normal for his peer group to outweigh you or his teachers right now, and probably for the rest of his life. (Sorry.) You have a little more control over his peer group now than you will in a few years, so this seems like the time to make a change before the behavior escalates.

That said, the fact that he's happy being grounded makes me worried that it's about more than a dumb dare. Bullying or hazing, especially of the "new guy," is very much a thing. Does the school have any insight into that?
posted by basalganglia at 5:13 AM on February 21, 2023 [5 favorites]


To me, the fact that he's happy/relieved to be grounded speaks volumes. Give him a way out (for the fall, if not asap) even if it means stepping back his academics a bit - and let him know that's your plan. He can get enrichment outside of school in areas he's passionate about.
posted by nkknkk at 5:14 AM on February 21, 2023 [5 favorites]


How big of deal do you think this stuff is? I broke the rules as a teen but by and large I did not get caught. I can't say he has done anything worse than I ever did, but exposing yourself to getting caught on video camera just seems incredibly stupid and/or like his frontal cortex is not working.

I don't know how old you are, but assuming you're fairly close to my age (not a bad assumption if you have a teen) the world is way, way more wired than it was when we were teenagers. I'm aware of the cameras because, frankly, we watch a lot of true crime TV and I'm a slightly paranoid 46 year old. 15 year olds are not thinking like that. :) To agree with wakannai, his frontal cortex has not entered the chat yet.

I can tell you, as a sociologist, please don't label him as a "bad kid" - that will set off some "well, hey, I'm the bad kid, might as well go get in more trouble." Do whatever you need to do as a family to deal with this (incredibly normal teenage behavior, I also have stories for days about folks who did all kinds of nonsense as teens that are staid adults these days), but please try to avoid any labeling as him as a bad kid, wrong paths, anything like that.

(My wife was one of the last go-to-war-or-go-to-jail-kids, and we're boring 40 somethings these days. We own a house, we have a dog and a cat, we're both state employees.)

This is stressful, but 5 years from now, y'all are going to be laughing about this. Hang in there.
posted by joycehealy at 5:24 AM on February 21, 2023 [10 favorites]


This reminds me of my kid’s situation when they were 13. They’re now 15 and they and they are doing very well academically and socially. I think they needed to experience consequences for bad choices because when they were younger they were sheltered by my spouse and me being more protective and watchful, telling them how to navigate most situations, as parents of young kids should do. When they got older and we consciously stepped back to give them more independence and autonomy, and the middle school was also far less structured in watching over them, they started doing things I was very surprised about. For one, stealing pot and a pipe from a relative’s home and attempting to use it in her room. Also, cheating on tests. They suffered consequences from those actions, but we didn’t go back to treating them like a child. I think it was a phase and the product of not understanding what real consequences for poor choices would bring, now they know.
posted by waving at 5:25 AM on February 21, 2023 [3 favorites]


I was a delinquent of epic proportion and very similar otherwise to your son. The hardest thing on me at the time was knowing, and having peers comment on, the fact my parents didn’t seem to care - whether I went to school, came home late, got in trouble, or was miserable. I felt lost, angry, and most importantly invisible.

Additionally, I was often told by a parent that I was acting out for attention, but in a dismissive way that shamed the need to be seen and understood and helped by a parent.

Feeling lost, angry, invisible, and ashamed is a deadly combination likely to make an adolescent spontaneously combust.

Don’t worry about your son: find him, be visibly angry when he doesn’t live up to his own values, talk to him about what his values are, and see him - see him when he’s there and not there, when he’s at school and not at school, when he’s in trouble and when he’s not, and when he’s angry at you and seeking you out, apologize and be there.

Agree with the comments above that his happiness at your attention and enforcement of his values and his safety speaks volumes.
posted by desert exile at 5:27 AM on February 21, 2023 [22 favorites]


One thing to be aware of if he is showing off to other kids for acceptance/approval/kudos - make sure that there is no way that he can get his hands on a gun that belongs to you or your extended family or a family friend, because taking even an unloaded gun to school to show it off could result in very serious legal consequences.
posted by chariot pulled by cassowaries at 5:50 AM on February 21, 2023 [5 favorites]


But I think there’s a bigger job here to do - get to know him a bit better, lovingly, and look for ways he can express whatever he’s got going on a bit more positively.

To add to that, I think you want to also try to get to know the school better, both from his perspective and from the perspective of other people connected to it. What's the social environment like there? Are there a bunch of different social groups and cliques, with different characteristics? Are there after-school activities, and are there social circles associated with any of them? Do any of the circles or activities that appeal to him offer very different ways to be cool? What does he think his own social position in the school is?

Is he involved in any activities or hobbies at all, whether connected to the school or not?
Does he know how to stand up for himself and say no to things he's not comfortable with - not just at school but in general?
posted by trig at 6:10 AM on February 21, 2023 [3 favorites]


It seems I am an outlier here but I would be very concerned with the fire setting, no matter the intention or outcome. I would not dismiss this behavior as just an immature teenage decision and would make sure to raise this with the counselor.

Also, I don't know the background of your child but I think it is important to note that not everyone gets a pass for "youthful" mistakes and that can lead to significant challenges down the road and not so far down the road. My cousin had to explain a middle school expulsion for fighting when trying to get into a selective high school program. Despite his credentials and the fact that several kids were involved, he did not get in. A friend had to account for an accusation of stealing in highschool when he needed security clearance for a job in his 30s. He did not steal, the school admitted it, he was never arrested and the incident was not supposed to be on his "record". But it sure came up. (He did get the clearance.)

Both of these men are now productive happy adults, however the road has been harder due to youthful mistakes and associations. I think its worth considering that as you work through this and consider the seriousness of your child's incidents. Particularly if they are from a background that is likely to face discrimination/not be given the benefit of the doubt.
posted by fies at 7:11 AM on February 21, 2023 [3 favorites]


We have now grounded him in a severe way for the past 4 days or so - after all 3 incidents came out - no phone, no social media, no seeing kids, etc. And he seems really happy. He is reading books, hanging out with us, watching movies with us, etc.

This grounding isn’t by any chance the most time you’ve all spent together in awhile, is it? Kids in advanced academic programs get busy, especially in high school, and it’s easy for family time to fall by the wayside in pursuit of school or extracurriculars. Maybe try scheduling more time together to just hang out and watch movies or make dinner together or whatever works for you. If—if—his actions were partly driven by trying to get your attention, give him another way to spend time with you.

Kids at this age are trying on various identities to see what will fit as they move forward…it sounds like there is a lot of emphasis on his being smart. Speaking as a former Smart Kid, what feels like praise to adults (“so smart!”) can feel like a burden to a child (“if you mess up a test, your identity is destroyed!”). He might be sick of only being known as the high academic achiever, especially if that’s an identity that means a lot to parents.
posted by corey flood at 7:34 AM on February 21, 2023 [11 favorites]


I also thought that this sort of behavior sounds like some people I know who got diagnosed in high school with ADHD - they were bright kids, but it was their total lack of impulse control that got them assessed. I agree with people saying the THC gummy seems no different than experimenting with a beer, whereas the other two incidents are more serious since they could result in a criminal record.

You might enjoy listening together to this NYTimes podcast episode "The Teenager Leading the Smartphone Liberation Movement." What stood out to me, was this teen and her friends note that they believe their generation will be better then their parents at protecting their kids from technology. I'm not sure there is an easy answer here, but this might help you have a conversation with your kid about what type of relationship to social media he wants, and how can you help him achieve that goal.
posted by coffeecat at 7:36 AM on February 21, 2023 [3 favorites]


assuming you're fairly close to my age (not a bad assumption if you have a teen) the world is way, way more wired than it was when we were teenagers.

Not only more wired, it's way more upset about small things. Starting a fire in a self contained trash can that by its nature limits the fire to whatever is inside? That's called a burn bin, and it's still how a lot of the world disposes of its trash. It's not The Next Step Towards Arson. Similarly, I don't even *recall* how many teens I knew pulled smoke alarms as a prank in my high school. THC gummie? If we had them, we would have - instead I knew a lot of teenagers who smoked a little pot and then got sick and threw up and were like 'ugh no'. This is normal teenager shit. The difference is that the world judges it more harshly.

I wouldn't focus on heavy grounding so much as just explaining how much this can fuck his world up in the future and just explaining why the choices were bad choices, not from a moralistic standpoint, but a practical one. Taking drugs you don't know the dosage of can be harmful. Doing pranks in a world where everyone has cameras can have long lasting consequences. That way it's not about who he is, and just about what can happen.
posted by corb at 7:43 AM on February 21, 2023 [21 favorites]


It's serious enough, but the more important question is how much you should worry and what you should do.

When my youngest was that age, she left home one fine afternoon to have tea with some friends. My gut told me something was wrong, but everything seemed innocent enough. Ten minutes later she called me in a panic, she and another girl had entered the friend's apartment to find two girls who had each drunk at least a bottle of hard liquor, and one was so sick that if we hadn't called the ambulance then and there, she would have died. I didn't have a car at the time, so it was my ex who went there to meet the ambulance and then to bring the other girl back to our house to recover. It was terrible.

Obviously, we couldn't and wouldn't punish our daughter for something she had only intended to do. Rather, we told her that we were proud that she had done the right thing by calling us and not trying to fix it on her own, and then we had a long talk about values.

The girl who nearly died wasn't punished either, her family was too much in shock, and just grateful she survived.

The third girl was grounded for two weeks.

Guess who continued to make trouble for years, until she literally moved in with us? She's doing fine now, BTW.

This is something I have strong opinions about, maybe because I was thrown out of my home when I was 16. Teenagers do stupid things because of a lot of things. And often they don't know why they do them, or they do them because they misunderstand things or have no better means of expression. As I see it, when bad things happen, there is an occasion to talk. Punishment has no place in childcare. Our children know when they have done something wrong, even when they didn't know how bad it would be in advance. That is enough punishment.

That said, I agree with others that it is remarkable that he he seems to be enjoying his time home with you, and I think you need to ask him if that is true, and if so why? From your description, he doesn't seem to have found his space at the new school. Ask him if that is true. It is incredibly difficult to figure out the social environment in a school as a parent. There might be bullying without anyone knowing, or even less noticeable things that makes the kids feel lonely or out of place. Both my daughters changed schools at 14, because there had been bullying going on at their old schools that completely flew under the radar for us parents. (And in both cases the bullies where sons of parents who were very popular in the community, so it was impossible to discuss). Maybe your son has experienced the opposite, coming from at very safe environment to a much more challenging one.

For my eldest, her reactions were so out of control, I took her to a psychiatrist, thinking she might have some sort of diagnosis. The doctor said not at all, but that my daughter was highly intelligent, and that intelligent children may suffer more when something unfair is going on than others. Her violently angry behavior was caused by a desperation because she felt she couldn't change her circumstances. I had no idea she was intelligent, or whatever that means (it is not a thing we talk much about in this country, and schools for gifted children are rare). But it may apply to your son.
The doctor advised me to find an activity we could share. Children that age are simultaneously growing away from us and missing the closeness they felt when they were smaller. My daughter and I already shared a sport interest, and I decided to dive deeper in, and spend more time on it. It helped right away, and it was through the sports friends we found her new school.
posted by mumimor at 8:03 AM on February 21, 2023 [9 favorites]


We don't know what is causing this type of behavior, but we suspect he is trying to fit in with or one-up other kids on social media for social attention. Apparently, goofing around in other high schools on social media is a thing.

Oof, I feel you. My kids are all in their 20s now but, jesus christ, was I stunned at how central to their lives social media was(/is). I don't mean in a background sort of way, but rather as a key, heavy component of how they engage with people. That means, too, that your son might not think of himself as friendless in the way that you do—he might prioritize relationships that he has at a distance over relationships he has at school. For one of my kids this was really prominent—I wouldn't say they struggled to fit in because they didn't fit in. Even if they wanted to, that desire was more a creation of the environment and time (why am I the only one here like this) rather than a sign that they were in trouble. They were years away from coming out as trans and really feeling that gulf of separation from their peers at school (which also led to quite a lot of acting out, at varying levels of destructiveness). And you know what? I identified with that at the time. I was a closeted, fearful gay kid when I was your son's age and that led to me wearing a very agressive, isolating persona out of fear and anger at the situation. It would be a few years before I could muster the courage to be open about all that, but I was aware of it at the time. Your son might have similar private feelings that are difficult to get to the bottom of in the moment.

If he'll talk about it, that's a good thing to encourage and get involved in. These pressures (including social media) aren't going away, so try to understand its role in his life and how it operates. I really like the advice above to "find your son" rather than worry about him after all this. That's a good encapsulation.

One of the ways you can do this (even if you already know this) is to make sure that he has a good understanding of the boundaries he's expected to be aware of, and the consequences for crossing them in advance of any punishment. This is sort of an agreed recipe in parent-therapy circles for the successful framework for imposing consequences that don't always feel good. Advance knowledge means opportunity to discuss, digest, and inquire.

I'll also say that development is a wild thing to watch from the outside. Of my three, I absolutely could not have predicted where each of them are today when they were your son's age. One of them has been a bit of a troubled personality their entire life, but they've also found themselves in a big way along the way and dived into it with conviction. The other two have almost exchanged roles: the lazy troublemaker is really clicking with life's adult roles, and the natural wonder is going through a conspiracy theory-tinged turn on, tune in, drop out patch. I say this to remind you that you can do what you can do, but you also have no choice but to respect the truth that your kid is his own person. He'll find his way. You can make sure he trusts you and keeps you informed as he follows his path.
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 8:23 AM on February 21, 2023 [6 favorites]


When I was a young teen I did some incredibly stupid things some of which should have resulted in catastrophic fires or dismemberments or electrocutions, and if you'd asked me why I did them, I'd say "i wanted to see what happened." Like, literally no ability to discern the level of bad results that might occur. I disassembled fireworks on my desk to see what was inside them, then had the idea of lighting them on fire. Right there on the desk, in front of my face, in my room, in my house*. Yes, I did this. In one sense your kid is perfectly normal for a very intelligent child who may have autism and/or ADHD and is not receiving adequate intellectual stimulation from normal activities. In another sense, your kid is doing things that may cause loss of life and/or property damage. It's like when a puppy chews an electrical cable.

You have to find some reasonably safe outlet for these urges to fuck around, so the finding out isn't so painful.

* The pants I was wearing had a few hundred holes burned in them because they were rayon, but thankfully that all of the damage because the particles were small enough to burn out quickly enough that nothing wood/paper could catch fire. I threw the pants away and vacuumed up the mess.
posted by seanmpuckett at 9:55 AM on February 21, 2023 [3 favorites]


THC gummy - typical, but you should be talking to him about the weed and drugs that he'll encounter, and how to assess risk/reward. Specifically, that if he chooses to drink or use weed, the dose matters a great deal, as he learned. And that drugs beyond weed and alcohol present increasing levels of potential danger, physically and legally. That whoever gave him the gummy didn't look out for his best interest, and that teenagers like him and his friends are learning judgment skills, so he should be more cautious about everything.

Fire alarm sounds like a combination of poor impulse control and feeling out of control. If you want to be Freudian for a minute, since Freud wasn't all wrong, you could think of it as him sending an alarm. The schools and law will take it seriously; you should, too. Therapy with a very well credentialed therapist/ psychologist/ psychiatrist who works with adolescents.

Setting a fire is serious. Therapy. Yes, teenagers do impulsive, foolish things. But he sounds like he's in over his head. I always founds that drives were a time my son could (can) talk to me. Something about not being face to face helped. Open-ended questions. Are you feeling overwhelmed? How are you feeling about school/ life/ romance/ family/ friends?

Peer groups make an enormous difference, and that's amplified on social media. Talk to him about who he's hanging out with, who he'd like to hang out with. My son benefited from using the gym after school, wrestling team, track team. All had good coaches who gave kids an outlet for all those hormones and all that energy, some different peer groups, structure & discipline. Help him choose some healthier options, and get him therapy.
posted by theora55 at 10:15 AM on February 21, 2023 [1 favorite]


He has your full attention now. Find something else to interest you about your kid. Screwing up at 15 is normal, not attention deficit or anything, needing positive, nurturing relations with parents is also normal. Life is an organic process, changing up a 15 year old's support system of friends, may reveal the holes in their basic home support system. Everything was working because others were involved and maybe doing a lot of behavior modeling, which is now lost.
posted by Oyéah at 10:24 AM on February 21, 2023 [6 favorites]


Yes, this is worrying. But honestly, friend, I laughed and grimaced a bit at your emphasis on doing stupid shit but not getting caught for it. You're in your 40s, right? Close to that? No one had video cameras everywhere when we were kids. I mean, I was a "good kid" and did some stupid things, but I'm a white woman who was a white girl living in places where there weren't video cameras looking to capture middle class white kids getting into stuff. Times have changed. I think it's super important to stop comparing your kid to you at the same age. He is not you, and it's a very different context. "You're too smart to get caught so you must not be as smart as I thought" is going to create a lot of problems in your interactions.

Next, it's quite interesting that your kid seems so much happier right now, and that definitely suggests that Oyeah is right: your kid wanted some attention, and he got it! So maybe ramp up the time and attention you are giving him. This can be really tough with a 15 year old, because they aren't always cuddly and sweet and asking for attention in a positive and clear way. This article predates the pandemic, but I think it's useful still: What Do Teenagers Want? Potted Plant Parents

But, in the bigger picture: it's a VERY tough time for teens, and it's always been tough to be a teen in our culture. This article published today gives some context what's really a major mental health crisis among teenagers, and I think we are going to find that this pandemic has decades-long impacts on the mental health of kids who went through it, well into adulthood. So in addition to this crappy pandemic hitting your kid during a key development time, it's a lot to be dealing with an adjustment to a new school.

Finally, I want to tell you something I messed up, but figured out recently in my own parenting. About a year ago, my kid got into trouble at school when a teacher was really pretty awful to him. My first impulse when I got a call from the school was that he had done something wrong. It turns out that the teacher (highly stressed for a range of reasons) behaved pretty terribly to him and violated a school policy. I realized (over the next few weeks as this situation played out) that I had been in an oppositional stance to my kid, as was my co-parent. I realized that I needed to be my kid's ally and shift my mindset.

So I'd say to you: something is going on with your kid. What does it look like not to figure out how to punish him, but to coach him or support him in making some different choices? What does it look like not to be the authority punishing him to extract different behavior, but as a parent chatting with him about his friends, school, etc? These aren't always easy conversations, and you won't always get answers. But I do know that my kid opened up to me a lot more when he realized that I was on his side, part of his team.
posted by bluedaisy at 11:20 AM on February 21, 2023 [12 favorites]


As a kid (and, sorta still) who played with matches a lot, there's three kinds of setting fires. One is controlled and safe fires. Fire is fun, fire is primal, fire has been our companion for all of human evolution. Doing these right is harmless but usually requires a little bit of education on practices, how fire gets out of control, etc.

Second is problematic setting of fires, perhaps maliciously so. Lots of fires, fires in dangerous ways, fires with a likelihood to harm. A trend where it all escalates.

And third is the Oh Shit fire. Fire can spread really easily, accidentally and with far less material/heat than might be expected. Hot coals dumped in the trash, a match or spark coddled just enough to catch and smoulder and ignite, dry grass going up like it was doused in gasoline. Lighters and matches and cigarettes are common and easy to acquire, and can quickly cause an unplanned fire.

So in this case, not enough information. Was son and probable associates flicking matches at a dumpster? Did they pick a safe dumpster and do something thoughtless but pretty harmless in the long run? Did they pour gasoline/lighter fluid to set it off?

A dumpster fire by itself isn't a super scary sign to me. There's obviously more going on, but I wouldn't yet panic that he's an arsonist for life
posted by Jacen at 11:40 AM on February 21, 2023


Something I just thought about: though I have never ever punished my children, I have done interventions when I thought they were totally off the line. And one of those interventions included someone else's child.
Absolutely no-one, and not at all the children involved, felt their boundaries were overstepped. They need our guidance. The challenge is how to provide it in a way that respects their autonomy and still helps them get along in life.

How did those interventions work? Well, in every case, it was about creating a situation where we could discuss the implications of an action without blame or shame.
posted by mumimor at 3:50 PM on February 21, 2023 [1 favorite]


Having raised three children and helped parent eight grandchildren, I think he's A) bored; and/or B) not being challenged at school. All three of my kids were gifted, and they each needed something different to keep them educationally motivated. Too many gifted programs just pile on the homework and raise the expectations to ridiculous levels.

I'd sit down and have an honest talk with him - not threatening or angry, but curious and helpful - and see what HE thinks the problem is. This would be a fact-finding mission, not an opportunity to judge. His perspective will be a lot different than yours, and that's ok. But it can help you figure out how to help him get into a place where he's happier and productive.

My perspective on gifted programs is that they should be added enrichment for the students, not just more work. They should be enabled to follow their interests as much as possible. You may just need a different program for him.
posted by summerstorm at 2:10 PM on February 22, 2023 [1 favorite]


I had a long thing written up, but it boils down to this: maybe don't focus on your kid being "academically advanced" and needing a special context. Let them be a normal kid -- it is *fun* to be "academically advanced" relative to one's peers. Let your kid experience that. And it helps you learn on where you're "advanced" vs. where you might benefit from some more work/effort.
posted by nixxon at 5:02 PM on February 22, 2023


I think wakannai has it right. Adolescents are trying everything they can think of to see what happens and it’s how they learn. Offer them less punishment and more conversation.
posted by bendy at 1:54 AM on February 23, 2023


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