Frying for dummies
February 7, 2023 11:32 AM Subscribe
My husband is learning to cook via following the instructions that come with his meal kit delivery. For some reason, there is a lot of frying involved. This... is not going so good.
He is getting his meals from Sunbasket, ordering from a menu category that is supposed to be good for diabetics. This mostly consists of meat, chicken or fish and a cooked vegetable or fancy salad. So far he likes the food and is doing reasonably well with the cooking, save for the frying of the protein. I rarely fry meat other than to brown it before throwing it into a soup or casserole, and the frying of ground beef or small chunks of chicken seems to be a whole nother process than frying a thick fish fillet, chicken breast or steak. So I'm not much help.
Part of the problem, I think, is that we have a glass-top range and it is different than what I've cooked on in the past (mostly the electric coil type of range.) The temperature on the glass-top seems to range from "way, way too fucking hot" to "still too fucking hot" to "still pretty goddamn hot" and then at some point you start to reach a lower temp where you can simmer a soup.
So what is happening when he cooks, even though he is following the written instructions to a T and setting a timer, is that the outside of the meat is getting burnt well before the inside is cooked. Even if he turns the heat down, it still seems to be cooking at too high a temperature, and our apartment fills up with smoke to a ridiculous degree in spite of having the stove vent on.
Everything he's cooked has tasted good, so maybe he's getting a blackening effect from the herbs and spices more than significant charring. But even if that's not a problem, filling the house with smoke kind of is.
So my question is actually four related questions:
1) Is it healthy to fry meat for every meal? It's not breaded or anything, just seasoned with herbs and spices. He is losing weight and his BG numbers have been good, but he's not due for a cholesterol test for a few months.
2) Does the type of cooking oil matter, either from a health standpoint or a less-smoky cooking standpoint? Currently he is using canola oil because that is what we had in the pantry.
3) Is breathing cooking smoke for 20 minutes three times a week going to give us and our cats lung cancer?
4) Is there a trick to cooking on a glass-top so as not to create a charred version of every meat known to man?
He is getting his meals from Sunbasket, ordering from a menu category that is supposed to be good for diabetics. This mostly consists of meat, chicken or fish and a cooked vegetable or fancy salad. So far he likes the food and is doing reasonably well with the cooking, save for the frying of the protein. I rarely fry meat other than to brown it before throwing it into a soup or casserole, and the frying of ground beef or small chunks of chicken seems to be a whole nother process than frying a thick fish fillet, chicken breast or steak. So I'm not much help.
Part of the problem, I think, is that we have a glass-top range and it is different than what I've cooked on in the past (mostly the electric coil type of range.) The temperature on the glass-top seems to range from "way, way too fucking hot" to "still too fucking hot" to "still pretty goddamn hot" and then at some point you start to reach a lower temp where you can simmer a soup.
So what is happening when he cooks, even though he is following the written instructions to a T and setting a timer, is that the outside of the meat is getting burnt well before the inside is cooked. Even if he turns the heat down, it still seems to be cooking at too high a temperature, and our apartment fills up with smoke to a ridiculous degree in spite of having the stove vent on.
Everything he's cooked has tasted good, so maybe he's getting a blackening effect from the herbs and spices more than significant charring. But even if that's not a problem, filling the house with smoke kind of is.
So my question is actually four related questions:
1) Is it healthy to fry meat for every meal? It's not breaded or anything, just seasoned with herbs and spices. He is losing weight and his BG numbers have been good, but he's not due for a cholesterol test for a few months.
2) Does the type of cooking oil matter, either from a health standpoint or a less-smoky cooking standpoint? Currently he is using canola oil because that is what we had in the pantry.
3) Is breathing cooking smoke for 20 minutes three times a week going to give us and our cats lung cancer?
4) Is there a trick to cooking on a glass-top so as not to create a charred version of every meat known to man?
I’m into poaching meat in oil or broth rather than frying. Use a low temperature from beginning to end, it doesn’t want to boil. Should take about 10-20 minutes to thoroughly cook a filet sized piece. Turns out so tender.
posted by waving at 11:45 AM on February 7, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by waving at 11:45 AM on February 7, 2023 [3 favorites]
A few thoughts:
Canola oil has a high smoke point, so that's a good oil to be using.
Frying cuts of meat is inherently a little smoky, but if you're having major smoke issues then either your range temperature is too high or your stove vent is not working properly (or both).
Does the stove vent seem to be working, and does it actually vent to the outside? Like, when you turn on the vent fan, can you see the smoke being drawn inward and up into the vent? Can you feel the air moving? Does it actually reduce the amount of smoke in the air, even if there is still some?
If yes, then you probably just need to work on using trial and error to find an acceptable burner temperature. wile e's point about moving the pan to a NEW burner if you need to reduce temperature is good -- glass retains heat for a long time.
posted by mekily at 11:45 AM on February 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
Canola oil has a high smoke point, so that's a good oil to be using.
Frying cuts of meat is inherently a little smoky, but if you're having major smoke issues then either your range temperature is too high or your stove vent is not working properly (or both).
Does the stove vent seem to be working, and does it actually vent to the outside? Like, when you turn on the vent fan, can you see the smoke being drawn inward and up into the vent? Can you feel the air moving? Does it actually reduce the amount of smoke in the air, even if there is still some?
If yes, then you probably just need to work on using trial and error to find an acceptable burner temperature. wile e's point about moving the pan to a NEW burner if you need to reduce temperature is good -- glass retains heat for a long time.
posted by mekily at 11:45 AM on February 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
It sounds like pan-frying rather than deep-frying, so it's not really "fried" in the way that people normally mean when they're talking about fried foods.
Cooking oil does matter; some have a lower "smoke point" and will therefore smoke at lower temps. Canola has a high smoke point, though, so it's probably not that.
It really just sounds like the pan is way, way, way too hot. My stove is gas but the flames are really hot, and when a recipe says "Medium," I have to set it on "Low." I know that's harder when there's not a flame level to watch, but I would start by turning the setting way, way down. Do you have a meat thermometer? That would be one way to check the done-ness if you can't totally rely on the cooking times.
posted by lapis at 11:46 AM on February 7, 2023 [16 favorites]
Cooking oil does matter; some have a lower "smoke point" and will therefore smoke at lower temps. Canola has a high smoke point, though, so it's probably not that.
It really just sounds like the pan is way, way, way too hot. My stove is gas but the flames are really hot, and when a recipe says "Medium," I have to set it on "Low." I know that's harder when there's not a flame level to watch, but I would start by turning the setting way, way down. Do you have a meat thermometer? That would be one way to check the done-ness if you can't totally rely on the cooking times.
posted by lapis at 11:46 AM on February 7, 2023 [16 favorites]
1) I think a bit of oil is OK. If you aren't deep frying and are just using a tablespoon or two then I don't see the harm in doing that for dinner every day. Another option to use les oil is to get a non-stick pan.
3) Probably not going to give cancer (well everything will give you cancer eventually) but probably isn't great either. Do you have an exhaust fan above the stove? If so use that. If not, crack open a nearby window or two.
4) As far as the frying, if you are able to put a lid on the pan then it'll trap the heat and do a better job of heating the bits that aren't touching the pan.
Also, outside of baking I don't think you can trust any time measurement a recipe gives you. You've got to watch and decide for yourself, not when the timer tells you.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 11:49 AM on February 7, 2023 [3 favorites]
3) Probably not going to give cancer (well everything will give you cancer eventually) but probably isn't great either. Do you have an exhaust fan above the stove? If so use that. If not, crack open a nearby window or two.
4) As far as the frying, if you are able to put a lid on the pan then it'll trap the heat and do a better job of heating the bits that aren't touching the pan.
Also, outside of baking I don't think you can trust any time measurement a recipe gives you. You've got to watch and decide for yourself, not when the timer tells you.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 11:49 AM on February 7, 2023 [3 favorites]
1) not in too much oil, and especially not in too much cool oil - it soaks the food.
2)canola is high smoke point, so that's fine. smoke = burning. burning is no good.
3) ???
4) familiarity. establish what settings actually are low, med, high, very high.
and pull it off the hot burner to cool on an 'off' burner once in a while.
posted by j_curiouser at 11:50 AM on February 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
2)canola is high smoke point, so that's fine. smoke = burning. burning is no good.
3) ???
4) familiarity. establish what settings actually are low, med, high, very high.
and pull it off the hot burner to cool on an 'off' burner once in a while.
posted by j_curiouser at 11:50 AM on February 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
Consider baking or oven-frying the protein instead. It’s much more forgiving. Get an instant read thermometer and an oven-safe pan, season the protein with seasoning and oil (optional), set the oven at 350F, and check every five minutes and remove when it reads a safe temperature. Or just search youtube for “$protein oven”, eg “chicken breast oven” for examples.
posted by theclaw at 11:50 AM on February 7, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by theclaw at 11:50 AM on February 7, 2023 [7 favorites]
I don't like the smell of hot canola oil, so even though canola is accepted for high-temp cooking, another oil might be less annoying to you.
Consider putting a curtain over the kitchen door to keep the smoke in the kitchen or at least away from the living spaces. We have an Ikea roller blind mounted over the kitchen doorway that we pull down when cooking, so our living room and front hall coat rack don't get as "fried" smelling. (Make sure it's fire safe if it's near the stove of course)
posted by nouvelle-personne at 11:50 AM on February 7, 2023 [4 favorites]
Consider putting a curtain over the kitchen door to keep the smoke in the kitchen or at least away from the living spaces. We have an Ikea roller blind mounted over the kitchen doorway that we pull down when cooking, so our living room and front hall coat rack don't get as "fried" smelling. (Make sure it's fire safe if it's near the stove of course)
posted by nouvelle-personne at 11:50 AM on February 7, 2023 [4 favorites]
This doesn't answer your question directly, but - I have found that with the meal delivery kits the emphasis is on quick preparation. The only (?) way to do this in <30 minutes prep-to-plate the kit promises is by frying the protein. If your husband is willing to spend an extra 20 minutes, roasting, or, as waving suggested - poaching, are options.
posted by Dotty at 11:52 AM on February 7, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by Dotty at 11:52 AM on February 7, 2023 [8 favorites]
I would change oils, first of all. I don't want to get into a debate on who's right, but a lot of sources give heavy side-eye to canola in terms of health. And I personally won't fry with it because notwithstanding its "smoke point", I can smell it breaking down into fishy compounds at relatively low temperatures. So use peanut or avocado; or even the refined olive oil that's for frying.
Second, is he taking that meat out of the fridge well ahead of time, or frying it cold? If it's cold in the center, then obviously it's going to get too hot on the outside before it gets cooked through. Take it out of the fridge at least 30 minutes prior; more if it's a thick chunk.
Third, try cutting those proteins up into small pieces for more even cooking.
Fourth, I myself was never able to "make it work" with a glass stovetop when I had one in a rental, but I am rooting for you.
posted by fingersandtoes at 11:53 AM on February 7, 2023 [13 favorites]
Second, is he taking that meat out of the fridge well ahead of time, or frying it cold? If it's cold in the center, then obviously it's going to get too hot on the outside before it gets cooked through. Take it out of the fridge at least 30 minutes prior; more if it's a thick chunk.
Third, try cutting those proteins up into small pieces for more even cooking.
Fourth, I myself was never able to "make it work" with a glass stovetop when I had one in a rental, but I am rooting for you.
posted by fingersandtoes at 11:53 AM on February 7, 2023 [13 favorites]
It sounds like he might be starting the frying pan too hot, and like was mentioned above electric stoves are slow to cool down when you lower the temperature. I lived with glass top stoves in rentals for years and they are frustrating but once you get to know the particular stove's quirks you can do fine. In other words, instead of turning the burner to "high" to heat up the pan then turning it down to, say, "medium-high," he should try just turning the burner to the medium high setting all along.
Personally I prefer olive oil or peanut oil but that is mostly a matter of taste (and not raising the temperature to the point that the oil starts smoking).
posted by Dip Flash at 11:57 AM on February 7, 2023 [4 favorites]
Personally I prefer olive oil or peanut oil but that is mostly a matter of taste (and not raising the temperature to the point that the oil starts smoking).
posted by Dip Flash at 11:57 AM on February 7, 2023 [4 favorites]
Also, this may be something where it is a lot clearer to watch some youtube videos than to read text descriptions.
posted by Dip Flash at 12:00 PM on February 7, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Dip Flash at 12:00 PM on February 7, 2023 [2 favorites]
Just a few things not mentioned.
A. The pan needs to be a heavy good quality stainless steel pan to hold the heat evenly distributed.
B. a) First, heat the pan just until it is hot, b) then add and heat the oil just until it shimmers, c) then add the protein, d) then turn down the heat if necessary (sounds like too high of heat).
While dialing in to the correct temp and timing, maybe have everything ready then watch these steps so the pan is not too hot. This requires a lot of observation and adjusting at the beginning for new cooks and for new stoves. Once all the timing is comfortable, it is easier and you can spend time prepping while stuff heats up and cooks.
(If the pan continues to be "too hot" aka "smoke" move it off of the burner until it and the burner cool down and stop smoking.)
C. Heat needs to be high to sear outside then turned down until middle is cooked through. Consider an instant read thermometer here to test internal temperature, thermopop is the brand name.
(And to answer your questions - sautéing is not frying, his numbers are good, it is fine; yes cooking oil matters, yes canola is ok, yes avocado or peanut or refined coconut are arguably better and preferred (to me); smoke is too high of heat, lower the heat; start with way lower temperature just high enough to get the oil to shimmering. Also if have a big pan and a single small piece of meat, then the edges of the pan will be even hotter so for fewer pieces of protein use a smaller pan or an even lower temperature.)
This is all normal learning curve. Sounds like a good, healthy path.
posted by RoadScholar at 12:04 PM on February 7, 2023 [7 favorites]
A. The pan needs to be a heavy good quality stainless steel pan to hold the heat evenly distributed.
B. a) First, heat the pan just until it is hot, b) then add and heat the oil just until it shimmers, c) then add the protein, d) then turn down the heat if necessary (sounds like too high of heat).
While dialing in to the correct temp and timing, maybe have everything ready then watch these steps so the pan is not too hot. This requires a lot of observation and adjusting at the beginning for new cooks and for new stoves. Once all the timing is comfortable, it is easier and you can spend time prepping while stuff heats up and cooks.
(If the pan continues to be "too hot" aka "smoke" move it off of the burner until it and the burner cool down and stop smoking.)
C. Heat needs to be high to sear outside then turned down until middle is cooked through. Consider an instant read thermometer here to test internal temperature, thermopop is the brand name.
(And to answer your questions - sautéing is not frying, his numbers are good, it is fine; yes cooking oil matters, yes canola is ok, yes avocado or peanut or refined coconut are arguably better and preferred (to me); smoke is too high of heat, lower the heat; start with way lower temperature just high enough to get the oil to shimmering. Also if have a big pan and a single small piece of meat, then the edges of the pan will be even hotter so for fewer pieces of protein use a smaller pan or an even lower temperature.)
This is all normal learning curve. Sounds like a good, healthy path.
posted by RoadScholar at 12:04 PM on February 7, 2023 [7 favorites]
One thing that might help limit the smoke is to use the reverse sear method. The basic idea is that you slowly cook the protein in the oven at a low temperature (producing no smoke) until the internal temp is *almost* up to the correct temperature and then you transfer it to a hot skillet on the stovetop for a brief time to sear the outside and get the nice flavorful brown crust. Contrary to what's often advised, the skillet doesn't necessarily need to be "ripping hot" -- medium high is usually sufficient.
The main advantage of this is to give you a properly cooked piece of meat, but a secondary benefit is that the meat spends a lot less time on the stovetop smoking up your kitchen.
It should be noted that this doesn't work well with thin cuts of meat. Also it's tricky with fish, which maybe your husband would find easier to broil instead of pan frying anyway.
posted by theory at 12:05 PM on February 7, 2023 [7 favorites]
The main advantage of this is to give you a properly cooked piece of meat, but a secondary benefit is that the meat spends a lot less time on the stovetop smoking up your kitchen.
It should be noted that this doesn't work well with thin cuts of meat. Also it's tricky with fish, which maybe your husband would find easier to broil instead of pan frying anyway.
posted by theory at 12:05 PM on February 7, 2023 [7 favorites]
I think he may need to work on recognizing when oil reaches the right temperature, vs just relying on times or heat levels from a written recipe that was not developed with your stove in mind. So recognizing when oil is shimmering or just smoking- those are the levels I commonly see in recipes for pan fried food. If he’s just learning how to cook he may be saying “but it says five minutes at medium high heat!” and not realizing that what matters is the outcome: browned food that doesn’t stick to the pan is good, char is probably not what the recipe is going for.
Seconding the tip to use a second burner- I had the same struggle with a glass top electric cooktop and getting the temperature to actually lower quickly. It just doesn’t happen the way it does on a gas stove.
If you have outdoor space and the weather is not subzero where you are, grilling can be a substitute for pan frying. It’s similarly quick and moves any smoke and cooking smells out of the house.
posted by MadamM at 12:08 PM on February 7, 2023 [7 favorites]
Seconding the tip to use a second burner- I had the same struggle with a glass top electric cooktop and getting the temperature to actually lower quickly. It just doesn’t happen the way it does on a gas stove.
If you have outdoor space and the weather is not subzero where you are, grilling can be a substitute for pan frying. It’s similarly quick and moves any smoke and cooking smells out of the house.
posted by MadamM at 12:08 PM on February 7, 2023 [7 favorites]
Reiterating what fingersandtoes said about getting the meat to room temperature first. That will have a big effect on the burning-the-outside problem you describe.
posted by LizardBreath at 12:18 PM on February 7, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by LizardBreath at 12:18 PM on February 7, 2023 [7 favorites]
Sautéing food should be done at medium-high heat. Your problem is that I suspect you are using a thin bottomed pan, which is then scorching the outside of the food instead of transferring the heat into the food.
Upgrade to a heavy thick bottomed pan.
posted by axismundi at 12:23 PM on February 7, 2023 [3 favorites]
Upgrade to a heavy thick bottomed pan.
posted by axismundi at 12:23 PM on February 7, 2023 [3 favorites]
I agree with what wile said above - these kinds of burners are fast to heat up and slow to cool down. Switching to a different burner when you need to lower the heat is a great suggestion.
Some experimentation may be needed - is there a burner with more predictable control than the others? Or do they all seem to be calibrated the same?
If it were me I'd try starting with a much lower temperature and then gradually increasing it if necessary. The usable range of the control knob might be limited to the very lower portion of the knob's range of motion. It's frustrating to have to compensate that much for faulty equipment, but if you're stuck using what you have, you might have no other choice.
Another option would be to get a freestanding burner, either a normal electric one or an induction one if you have pans that will work with induction. A new burner might not have some of the problems an older stove will have.
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 12:25 PM on February 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
Some experimentation may be needed - is there a burner with more predictable control than the others? Or do they all seem to be calibrated the same?
If it were me I'd try starting with a much lower temperature and then gradually increasing it if necessary. The usable range of the control knob might be limited to the very lower portion of the knob's range of motion. It's frustrating to have to compensate that much for faulty equipment, but if you're stuck using what you have, you might have no other choice.
Another option would be to get a freestanding burner, either a normal electric one or an induction one if you have pans that will work with induction. A new burner might not have some of the problems an older stove will have.
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 12:25 PM on February 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
3) Is breathing cooking smoke for 20 minutes three times a week going to give us and our cats lung cancer?
No but if you’re using a nonstick pan *that* will cause bad stuff at the temperatures you’re talking about. Use stainless clad aluminum 95% of the time— cuisinart has a good inexpensive line. Use metal turners to scrape off anything that sticks, and don’t use the metal utensils in nonstick. Ignore people who say to use cast iron, it’s not great for beginners.
Watch YouTube videos about sautéing and searing and browning. There are good videos about getting a pan up to the right temperature with a few drops of water to test the surface.
posted by supercres at 12:28 PM on February 7, 2023 [3 favorites]
No but if you’re using a nonstick pan *that* will cause bad stuff at the temperatures you’re talking about. Use stainless clad aluminum 95% of the time— cuisinart has a good inexpensive line. Use metal turners to scrape off anything that sticks, and don’t use the metal utensils in nonstick. Ignore people who say to use cast iron, it’s not great for beginners.
Watch YouTube videos about sautéing and searing and browning. There are good videos about getting a pan up to the right temperature with a few drops of water to test the surface.
posted by supercres at 12:28 PM on February 7, 2023 [3 favorites]
Mine has numbers 1-9 and is electric coil, though I regularly cook on a glasstop (which is basically the same except the coils are below glass for maintenance reasons) : #7 is max for frying, 5-6 is medium.
I'm not a professional cook, but I rarely turn the temperature down. I've never found that works well, on anything. So if you are looking to fry something, don't turn it to max and then turn it down. The one exception is boiling water.
posted by The_Vegetables at 12:32 PM on February 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
I'm not a professional cook, but I rarely turn the temperature down. I've never found that works well, on anything. So if you are looking to fry something, don't turn it to max and then turn it down. The one exception is boiling water.
posted by The_Vegetables at 12:32 PM on February 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
Perhaps consider an inexpensive contact grill, e.g. a George Foreman or whatever. They're meant to quickly cook protein with a minimum of extra oil, extraneous smoke and spattering grease. They have a fixed thermostat that is generally Just Right for cooking meats. Not too hot, not took cold. Will blacken the outside a bit but will also ensure the inside is cooked through if you time it properly. We use one instead of frying meat in an open pan because I frankly hate the grease spatters that have to be wiped up and that eventually coat everything in the kitchen (especially the ceiling and walls) in a layer of polymerized oil glaze. A contact grill minimizes this because it is a closed system. ALso they're easy to clean, with a non-stick surface, just wipe down while still warm.
ANYWAY. That's my two dollars.
posted by seanmpuckett at 12:37 PM on February 7, 2023 [6 favorites]
ANYWAY. That's my two dollars.
posted by seanmpuckett at 12:37 PM on February 7, 2023 [6 favorites]
If you’re googling for help, having the right terminology will help.
It sounds like for ground meat or small pieces, you’re describing browning, where you often want to pick up some color before adding liquid and cooking it down some more, like with a ground-beef chili or bolognese. In that case, you don’t have to cook the meat through; it’s going to cook throw as it’s simmering, it just needs to pick up some color (and it doesn’t even need that, you could dump raw ground beef into simmering liquid, it just wouldn’t be as good). This often doesn’t need extra oil, but I usually add olive or canola oil as a thin film.
Sautéing usually refers to vegetables, usually onions as a base. You want to cook them a little slowly so they can get a nice light brown at the same time they’re soft. I do this in olive oil or butter, 1/2 to 1 tbsp.
(Pan) frying is often used for a thin, even layer of oil (1/8-1/4 inch deep) for whole cuts of meat like chicken breast or pork chop or steak. You want the oil to be shimmering but not smoking, it should sizzle when the meat goes in.
posted by supercres at 12:41 PM on February 7, 2023 [3 favorites]
It sounds like for ground meat or small pieces, you’re describing browning, where you often want to pick up some color before adding liquid and cooking it down some more, like with a ground-beef chili or bolognese. In that case, you don’t have to cook the meat through; it’s going to cook throw as it’s simmering, it just needs to pick up some color (and it doesn’t even need that, you could dump raw ground beef into simmering liquid, it just wouldn’t be as good). This often doesn’t need extra oil, but I usually add olive or canola oil as a thin film.
Sautéing usually refers to vegetables, usually onions as a base. You want to cook them a little slowly so they can get a nice light brown at the same time they’re soft. I do this in olive oil or butter, 1/2 to 1 tbsp.
(Pan) frying is often used for a thin, even layer of oil (1/8-1/4 inch deep) for whole cuts of meat like chicken breast or pork chop or steak. You want the oil to be shimmering but not smoking, it should sizzle when the meat goes in.
posted by supercres at 12:41 PM on February 7, 2023 [3 favorites]
I'm stuck on the notion that you are getting any smoke, none the less enough smoke to fill up your house with smoke. Smoke when cooking implies that either:
I suggest you get a infrared thermometer and some glass top cleaner. It is very difficult for most new cooks - and even experienced cooks - to identify when oil is the right temperature for cooking. An infrared thermometer makes this easy. I would be looking for 300-350F to start cooking most meats on a skillet. Further, the temperature with vegetable oil should never go north of 400F. With an infrared thermometer, you don't need to worry so much about what the knobs on your stove mean (which is good, because there is no standardization on them). You can just get used to the knob setting that results in a temperature range of 300-350F. Similarly, the glass cleaner would be useful to ensure there's nothing stuck on your glasstop that you are burning whenever you use the stove.
Nicer pans will help out here - thick stainless steel pans work well with glasstops to maintain consistent temperature. That said, a stainless steel pan will easily smoke oil as well if overheated.
maybe he's getting a blackening effect from the herbs and spices more than significant charring
Apologies if this is obvious, but unless you are actually blackening meat (a specific technique in Cajun/Creole cooking), your food should not turn out black. Brown indicates the Maillard reaction has taken place, and usually is a good thing for the taste of the resultant food. Black indicates something has gone beyond Maillard reaction and onto combustion, which is both generally not tasty, and will produce smoke.
posted by saeculorum at 12:45 PM on February 7, 2023 [14 favorites]
- oil has gone (far) beyond its smoke point
- you are causing portions of your food to combust
- something on your burner is combusting.
I suggest you get a infrared thermometer and some glass top cleaner. It is very difficult for most new cooks - and even experienced cooks - to identify when oil is the right temperature for cooking. An infrared thermometer makes this easy. I would be looking for 300-350F to start cooking most meats on a skillet. Further, the temperature with vegetable oil should never go north of 400F. With an infrared thermometer, you don't need to worry so much about what the knobs on your stove mean (which is good, because there is no standardization on them). You can just get used to the knob setting that results in a temperature range of 300-350F. Similarly, the glass cleaner would be useful to ensure there's nothing stuck on your glasstop that you are burning whenever you use the stove.
Nicer pans will help out here - thick stainless steel pans work well with glasstops to maintain consistent temperature. That said, a stainless steel pan will easily smoke oil as well if overheated.
maybe he's getting a blackening effect from the herbs and spices more than significant charring
Apologies if this is obvious, but unless you are actually blackening meat (a specific technique in Cajun/Creole cooking), your food should not turn out black. Brown indicates the Maillard reaction has taken place, and usually is a good thing for the taste of the resultant food. Black indicates something has gone beyond Maillard reaction and onto combustion, which is both generally not tasty, and will produce smoke.
posted by saeculorum at 12:45 PM on February 7, 2023 [14 favorites]
Electric stovetops are really difficult. I remember my grandmother shouting and cursing every time she fried fish. She had grown up with a wood fired stove and then gas, but she actually preferred electricity because of the cleanliness. I replaced the electric stove with induction the day I took over the farm. You could get a cheap induction burner, where you can control the heat. But maybe you can also learn to deal with it.
As others have suggested, but I will now phrase differently, the trick is to never, ever go to high heat. On an electric range, high heat is only for boiling water.
The oil in your pan should never smoke, just shimmer, throw a drop of water into the pan to see if it is hot.
For meat including hamburgers, my gran seared it on the skillet, and then finished in the oven also on medium heat, which gave her time to do all the other stuff: make gravy, salads, peel potatoes etc. Fish was just a struggle, every time, but it was always delicious.
I'll be the person recommending cast iron. It is ideal for someone on a protein diet like your husband. But you could maybe get an enameled one. They are insanely expensive, but right now when I am sharing my home with people who don't have a clue about cast iron or carbon steel, my enameled pan is a godsend. It just works, whatever anyone does to it, while the other pans need seasoning all the time, when I find them in the sink after a night of soaking.
You can bring a cast iron pan up to the temperature you want, and it will basically stay there, with little effort. I feel they are actually specially well suited for electricity. You put your skillet on the burner at 6 out of 9, put in the oil, wait till a drop of water dances on the surface and then fry your protein. If you are doing a huge amount of stuff, turn it down a notch, but that doesn't seem to be your thing.
I have found some vintage enameled pans, which are great and cost less.
posted by mumimor at 12:46 PM on February 7, 2023 [3 favorites]
As others have suggested, but I will now phrase differently, the trick is to never, ever go to high heat. On an electric range, high heat is only for boiling water.
The oil in your pan should never smoke, just shimmer, throw a drop of water into the pan to see if it is hot.
For meat including hamburgers, my gran seared it on the skillet, and then finished in the oven also on medium heat, which gave her time to do all the other stuff: make gravy, salads, peel potatoes etc. Fish was just a struggle, every time, but it was always delicious.
I'll be the person recommending cast iron. It is ideal for someone on a protein diet like your husband. But you could maybe get an enameled one. They are insanely expensive, but right now when I am sharing my home with people who don't have a clue about cast iron or carbon steel, my enameled pan is a godsend. It just works, whatever anyone does to it, while the other pans need seasoning all the time, when I find them in the sink after a night of soaking.
You can bring a cast iron pan up to the temperature you want, and it will basically stay there, with little effort. I feel they are actually specially well suited for electricity. You put your skillet on the burner at 6 out of 9, put in the oil, wait till a drop of water dances on the surface and then fry your protein. If you are doing a huge amount of stuff, turn it down a notch, but that doesn't seem to be your thing.
I have found some vintage enameled pans, which are great and cost less.
posted by mumimor at 12:46 PM on February 7, 2023 [3 favorites]
If you're cooking minced or ground meat, also, you should be stirring it. Not constantly but enough that it shouldn't be burning (just browning). Stirring is how you get even browning or browning on all sides.
posted by Lady Li at 12:46 PM on February 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Lady Li at 12:46 PM on February 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
Each burner on my glass top electric stove has a number output from 0.0 to 10.0.
Every stove is different... but here's how I translate that to different heat levels:
0.0-1.5: Keep Warm
1.5-2.5: Low
2.5-3.5: Medium
3.5-5.5: High
I only need to take it above 5.5 if I have a 12" or larger skillet filled to the brim with food. As you can see others have stated - it's easy to overdo the heat on a glass top electric.
posted by dobi at 12:59 PM on February 7, 2023 [2 favorites]
Every stove is different... but here's how I translate that to different heat levels:
0.0-1.5: Keep Warm
1.5-2.5: Low
2.5-3.5: Medium
3.5-5.5: High
I only need to take it above 5.5 if I have a 12" or larger skillet filled to the brim with food. As you can see others have stated - it's easy to overdo the heat on a glass top electric.
posted by dobi at 12:59 PM on February 7, 2023 [2 favorites]
Seconding saeculorum about the infrared thermometer. For pan-frying it is incredibly helpful. Get the surface to 350 and things will brown beautifully without burning. And as said above, if the pan is too hot on an electric stove (non-induction), don't just turn the knob down, move the pan off the burner to cool it faster.
posted by agentofselection at 1:05 PM on February 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by agentofselection at 1:05 PM on February 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
We Tested 8 Enameled Cast Iron Skillets and Found Three Great Options
posted by mumimor at 1:05 PM on February 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by mumimor at 1:05 PM on February 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
I'd honestly start from the lowest setting, leave a pan with just oil on it for a good few minutes and see if you can get it to shimmer or a tiny piece of onion dropped into it to sizzle. If not, go up the smallest notch and try again. There really shouldn't be visible dark smoke while frying.
posted by I claim sanctuary at 1:08 PM on February 7, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by I claim sanctuary at 1:08 PM on February 7, 2023 [6 favorites]
1. Without getting into the weeds about what it means to be "healthy", it's probably fine, depending on the meat. By which I mean, the particular meat is probably going to matter more for health than the cooking oil. Lean meat like chicken? Fine. Really fatty ground beef? Less fine, but still OK. Oil is just fat, and so if you start with a leaner cut of meat, adding fat via oil isn't doing much.
2. LOL, cooking oil and health is a big topic, and there's a lot of ... I don't want to say "conspiracy theories", but... ideas whose vehemence is inverse proportion to the evidence for them. Most people agree that olive oil is OK. The problem with that is that its smoke point is low. Every cooking oil has a different smoke point, but once you get a certain level of proficiency with your tools, pretty much all of them are useful. I do a lot of my sauteeing with olive oil even though it has a low smoke point, because I've lived here for several years and I know my stove well enough to keep it in the sweet spot between "hot enough to brown" and "hot enough to burn".
3. Probably not, but that's still not a good reason to do it. A lot of the comments so far assume a range hood, which would be nice. If you have one, use it. But if you don't, you should probably find another way to ventilate your kitchen. I open a window and point a fan so that it blows the smoke out the window.
4. Use lower heat. In college I played in a band with a really good drummer, clearly influenced by Dave Grohl. We were talking once about how he could get so loud, and he said that his secret was that he learned to play really quietly. As a result, he developed really strong dynamic control. Cooking heat is kind of similar. When I started cooking for myself, my mom constantly reminded me to cook on the lowest heat possible. Much like my old drummer friend, I now mostly cook at pretty high temperatures, but I credit cooking at lower temperatures when I was learning with giving me a better understanding.
But also, just make sure your cooktop is clean. Generally, if I'm seeing big puffs of smoke, it's usually because there's something on my burner. I have coil burners now and it's easy to get things trapped in them, but it happened when I had a glass top at my old place too. With glass it's especially easy to not notice clear-ish liquids. Wipe down your stove often and keep it clean. Get a specialized glass cooktop cleaner to get off any hardened gunk.
The pan matters, too. I have a ceramic pan that I like because it gets hotter even at lower numbers on the burner dial. I can get pretty ripping hot at 6, when with a Teflon pan I'd have to crank the dial to 8 or 9. (Which is bad, with Teflon. Actually most things are bad with Teflon.) Cast iron is kind of the hipster thing, but there's a reason people like it.
If the outside is done before the inside, there are a couple things you can do to save it, or to prevent it in the future. If you've already cooked the outside, throw the meat in the oven on low-ish heat until the inside is done. The toaster oven is great for this. It's the same process as cooking roast beef. Before you start cooking, make sure the piece of meat isn't too thick. Any thicker than a 1/2" (use a finger to eyeball it) will have some trouble without good temperature control. If you're cooking an inch-thick steak, cut it into two 1/2" thick steaks. Butterfly your chicken breasts. Alternatively, use a meat tenderizer to pound it thinner.
One thing in particular you mentioned is that the meat itself doesn't seem to be charred, which indicates to me that the seasonings are what's burning. (This is, actually, exactly what blackening is.) Try just sprinkling some salt on the meat at first, and then seasoning it after it's mostly cooked.
Also, make sure you're drying the meat before putting it in the pan. This probably isn't what's causing the smoke, but moisture and hot oil don't go well together, and it'll also give you better browning on the meat. Just take a paper towel and pat it down before you add the salt.
posted by kevinbelt at 1:13 PM on February 7, 2023 [2 favorites]
2. LOL, cooking oil and health is a big topic, and there's a lot of ... I don't want to say "conspiracy theories", but... ideas whose vehemence is inverse proportion to the evidence for them. Most people agree that olive oil is OK. The problem with that is that its smoke point is low. Every cooking oil has a different smoke point, but once you get a certain level of proficiency with your tools, pretty much all of them are useful. I do a lot of my sauteeing with olive oil even though it has a low smoke point, because I've lived here for several years and I know my stove well enough to keep it in the sweet spot between "hot enough to brown" and "hot enough to burn".
3. Probably not, but that's still not a good reason to do it. A lot of the comments so far assume a range hood, which would be nice. If you have one, use it. But if you don't, you should probably find another way to ventilate your kitchen. I open a window and point a fan so that it blows the smoke out the window.
4. Use lower heat. In college I played in a band with a really good drummer, clearly influenced by Dave Grohl. We were talking once about how he could get so loud, and he said that his secret was that he learned to play really quietly. As a result, he developed really strong dynamic control. Cooking heat is kind of similar. When I started cooking for myself, my mom constantly reminded me to cook on the lowest heat possible. Much like my old drummer friend, I now mostly cook at pretty high temperatures, but I credit cooking at lower temperatures when I was learning with giving me a better understanding.
But also, just make sure your cooktop is clean. Generally, if I'm seeing big puffs of smoke, it's usually because there's something on my burner. I have coil burners now and it's easy to get things trapped in them, but it happened when I had a glass top at my old place too. With glass it's especially easy to not notice clear-ish liquids. Wipe down your stove often and keep it clean. Get a specialized glass cooktop cleaner to get off any hardened gunk.
The pan matters, too. I have a ceramic pan that I like because it gets hotter even at lower numbers on the burner dial. I can get pretty ripping hot at 6, when with a Teflon pan I'd have to crank the dial to 8 or 9. (Which is bad, with Teflon. Actually most things are bad with Teflon.) Cast iron is kind of the hipster thing, but there's a reason people like it.
If the outside is done before the inside, there are a couple things you can do to save it, or to prevent it in the future. If you've already cooked the outside, throw the meat in the oven on low-ish heat until the inside is done. The toaster oven is great for this. It's the same process as cooking roast beef. Before you start cooking, make sure the piece of meat isn't too thick. Any thicker than a 1/2" (use a finger to eyeball it) will have some trouble without good temperature control. If you're cooking an inch-thick steak, cut it into two 1/2" thick steaks. Butterfly your chicken breasts. Alternatively, use a meat tenderizer to pound it thinner.
One thing in particular you mentioned is that the meat itself doesn't seem to be charred, which indicates to me that the seasonings are what's burning. (This is, actually, exactly what blackening is.) Try just sprinkling some salt on the meat at first, and then seasoning it after it's mostly cooked.
Also, make sure you're drying the meat before putting it in the pan. This probably isn't what's causing the smoke, but moisture and hot oil don't go well together, and it'll also give you better browning on the meat. Just take a paper towel and pat it down before you add the salt.
posted by kevinbelt at 1:13 PM on February 7, 2023 [2 favorites]
Another way to fry things is to use an electric skillet. It should be easier to control the temperature with one of those. And the high sides and extra room make it easier to use for large amounts of food than a skillet on the stovetop. Regular nonstick coating is supposedly safe at the temperatures the skillet goes to, but it would be even safer to get a ceramic one, like this. We have one and it works well.
posted by Redstart at 1:22 PM on February 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Redstart at 1:22 PM on February 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
One thing I don’t think I’ve seen mentioned above is, some stoves have different burners set to have different levels of output. Where one burner may generate a lot more heat - usually that’s for when you want to bring a big pot of water up to a boil as fast as possible. And another one may put out less heat - that’s where you put something to sit and simmer for a long time. So if you haven’t, maybe check documentation on your stove and be sure you aren’t unintentionally using a high-power burner when you just want a regular/mid power one.
posted by dnash at 1:35 PM on February 7, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by dnash at 1:35 PM on February 7, 2023 [3 favorites]
You could get a single induction burner to use on the counter- they have very precise control, unlike a traditional electric stove. This is a good one. They work with cast iron pans (or stainless steel).
posted by pinochiette at 1:40 PM on February 7, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by pinochiette at 1:40 PM on February 7, 2023 [4 favorites]
To build on pinochiette's advice, you can also take it outside to cook on. That's what I do.
posted by 10ch at 1:42 PM on February 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by 10ch at 1:42 PM on February 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
My mother taught me to fry meat the way the Japanese do - sear the meat and then flip it and continue flipping - especially if any moisture starts to appear on the surface. The searing seals the meat and the continuous flipping ensures that the juices stay in the meat.
I like frying with butter for the flavour, but will also use ghee (clarified butter/butter oil) if I don't want the butter residue.
posted by Barbara Spitzer at 1:47 PM on February 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
I like frying with butter for the flavour, but will also use ghee (clarified butter/butter oil) if I don't want the butter residue.
posted by Barbara Spitzer at 1:47 PM on February 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
Best answer: People are enthusiastically telling you lots of fun cooking facts because we are huge cooking nerds.
You are probably feeling a bit overwhelmed.
Luckily, 99% of what you're hearing in this thread goes beyond what you need to know today. To solve today's problem, start by trying the take-it-off-the-burner-rather-than-turn-the-burner-down trick. It is almost certainly going to work.
Then, some other day, if your husband wants to learn more for fun, he can come back and learn about smoke points and reverse searing and blah blah blah. I love that shit, and maybe he will too. But your husband does not need to know it or find it interesting to make a healthy meal.
posted by nebulawindphone at 1:58 PM on February 7, 2023 [15 favorites]
You are probably feeling a bit overwhelmed.
Luckily, 99% of what you're hearing in this thread goes beyond what you need to know today. To solve today's problem, start by trying the take-it-off-the-burner-rather-than-turn-the-burner-down trick. It is almost certainly going to work.
Then, some other day, if your husband wants to learn more for fun, he can come back and learn about smoke points and reverse searing and blah blah blah. I love that shit, and maybe he will too. But your husband does not need to know it or find it interesting to make a healthy meal.
posted by nebulawindphone at 1:58 PM on February 7, 2023 [15 favorites]
I think you should stop thinking of this as frying and think of it more like sauteeing - you should be using a bit of oil - no more than a tablespoon, but you can also just use spray - to prevent sticking, and that's it. Start with your burner on "low" and apply oil and place the protein in the pan after 3 minutes. If that does not begin to generate gentle browning and soft sizzling after several minutes turn it up slightly and wait. If still nothing after 2 minutes, nudge again. Figure out where the right place is starting from the bottom, not the top. Be bored until you figure out the sweet spot.
Also, make sure you are using a pan with a base roughly the same size as the burner it is on. Some glasstops have one big burner that often has fast-boil functionality, and I kind of suspect you are using that but don't realize it. Use one of the smaller burners and a pan that more or less fits it.
Almost every stovetop I've ever used, and for sure the glasstop in my last place, I basically never turned it up above halfway. Most of my cooking was done at a quarter-way around the dial, or maybe one number or tick higher than that for really hot.
You should not be generating smoke. Ever. If things are smoking you are using too much heat OR your washing method is leaving some kind of funk on the bottom of your pans/on the glasstop that is burning when it touches a hot burner. There is a remote chance your entire stove is malfunctioning, but try all the burners starting low and slowly increasing before you decide that for sure.
posted by Lyn Never at 2:12 PM on February 7, 2023 [6 favorites]
Also, make sure you are using a pan with a base roughly the same size as the burner it is on. Some glasstops have one big burner that often has fast-boil functionality, and I kind of suspect you are using that but don't realize it. Use one of the smaller burners and a pan that more or less fits it.
Almost every stovetop I've ever used, and for sure the glasstop in my last place, I basically never turned it up above halfway. Most of my cooking was done at a quarter-way around the dial, or maybe one number or tick higher than that for really hot.
You should not be generating smoke. Ever. If things are smoking you are using too much heat OR your washing method is leaving some kind of funk on the bottom of your pans/on the glasstop that is burning when it touches a hot burner. There is a remote chance your entire stove is malfunctioning, but try all the burners starting low and slowly increasing before you decide that for sure.
posted by Lyn Never at 2:12 PM on February 7, 2023 [6 favorites]
My dearest spouse took it upon himself to cook some mail-order meals as well. He follows instructions to a T. The problem is that the instructions are written for someone with some familiarity of cooking.
For instance, everyone knows that onions don't carmelize in 5 minutes, yet it's a running joke that so many recipes start out instructing you to gently heat onions in oil until they are carmelized, 5 minutes. Try ... 45 minutes.
Instructions on pan frying meat suffer from a similar problem, and that is the amount of oil. The instructions say something like: add 1 T of oil to a pan, and fry 2 chicken breasts in it. That is not enough oil, and as a result, you end up cooking breaded chicken on a dry pan. Result: combustion and smoke. Those instructions assume that a knowledgeable cook will simply pour enough oil to coat a skillet bottom, and account for what will cook off. My spouse, and probably yours, pulled out a measuring spoon set and very carefully doled out exactly 1 T of oil. Nowhere near enough.
Compound the instructions for not-enough oil by a culture that is paranoid about what is "healthy" (we are nowhere near close to understanding that) and loathe to use fats, and you get smoke and burnt meat.
posted by Dashy at 2:39 PM on February 7, 2023 [5 favorites]
For instance, everyone knows that onions don't carmelize in 5 minutes, yet it's a running joke that so many recipes start out instructing you to gently heat onions in oil until they are carmelized, 5 minutes. Try ... 45 minutes.
Instructions on pan frying meat suffer from a similar problem, and that is the amount of oil. The instructions say something like: add 1 T of oil to a pan, and fry 2 chicken breasts in it. That is not enough oil, and as a result, you end up cooking breaded chicken on a dry pan. Result: combustion and smoke. Those instructions assume that a knowledgeable cook will simply pour enough oil to coat a skillet bottom, and account for what will cook off. My spouse, and probably yours, pulled out a measuring spoon set and very carefully doled out exactly 1 T of oil. Nowhere near enough.
Compound the instructions for not-enough oil by a culture that is paranoid about what is "healthy" (we are nowhere near close to understanding that) and loathe to use fats, and you get smoke and burnt meat.
posted by Dashy at 2:39 PM on February 7, 2023 [5 favorites]
Response by poster: These answers are so helpful, thank you all so much! I marked nebulawindphone's as "best answer" because I appreciate their acknowledgment of the overwhelm, and simplifying it a bit for me... lol. But there is so much great advice here, I am taking notes and we will be experimenting! Again, thanks!
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 4:49 PM on February 7, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 4:49 PM on February 7, 2023 [2 favorites]
I think everyone upthread covered a lot of good how-to-use-glass-stovetops, oil smoke point, and other advice so I just wanted to speak to your meal kit woes to make you feel a bit better.
I tried almost every meal kit during the pandemic as a source of entertainment, and Sunbasket had the tastiest, healthiest, most protein-customizable meals but their instructions were the worst by a long shot even when I was cooking on a gas range. I would go so far as to suggest watching YouTube videos for the main protein cooking (e.g. "how to pan fry a chicken breast filet" or "how to sauté ground beef" or "how to cook salmon on the stovetop") instead of following the directions in the meal kit if he's a novice cook. I regularly cooked things shorter/longer, added/removed liquids, and chopped veggies differently than the instructions in order to produce evenly cooked, properly browned food or patties that held together the right way. Following the picture on the front of the menu card instead of the instructions is a good idea as well.
posted by A Blue Moon at 5:10 PM on February 7, 2023 [4 favorites]
I tried almost every meal kit during the pandemic as a source of entertainment, and Sunbasket had the tastiest, healthiest, most protein-customizable meals but their instructions were the worst by a long shot even when I was cooking on a gas range. I would go so far as to suggest watching YouTube videos for the main protein cooking (e.g. "how to pan fry a chicken breast filet" or "how to sauté ground beef" or "how to cook salmon on the stovetop") instead of following the directions in the meal kit if he's a novice cook. I regularly cooked things shorter/longer, added/removed liquids, and chopped veggies differently than the instructions in order to produce evenly cooked, properly browned food or patties that held together the right way. Following the picture on the front of the menu card instead of the instructions is a good idea as well.
posted by A Blue Moon at 5:10 PM on February 7, 2023 [4 favorites]
I don’t see this being mentioned above, but I can’t leave something on the stove unattended if it’s a piece of protein, something that is very individual in cooking time, depending on stove and pan and the size of the piece of meat. So he should learn to stay at the stove, monitoring the progress of cooking. Setting a timer and walking away is only good for longer term projects such as stews or soups or braises.
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 5:37 PM on February 7, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 5:37 PM on February 7, 2023 [3 favorites]
You can take the pan off the burner and put it on one that's off, but if it has a reasonably thick bottom you can also half the heat by pulling it partway off the burner so that half the pan is sat on unheated glass (assuming this is radiant heat, not induction, anyway). If the controls suck, or if the glass is hot and takes a while to cool, this is a simple solution that works with the worst of hobs. You can also turn it down *and* move the pan, if necessary.
Look up the baking soda trick for ground beef, by the way - you add a tiny bit of baking soda to your beef and squidge it in with your hand before cooking. It lets the beef brown on the outside (good) without releasing all its water and boiling in it without ever browning (bad). Browning the outside of bits of ground beef really makes it taste better, even when making meat pasta sauce.
posted by How much is that froggie in the window at 7:35 PM on February 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
Look up the baking soda trick for ground beef, by the way - you add a tiny bit of baking soda to your beef and squidge it in with your hand before cooking. It lets the beef brown on the outside (good) without releasing all its water and boiling in it without ever browning (bad). Browning the outside of bits of ground beef really makes it taste better, even when making meat pasta sauce.
posted by How much is that froggie in the window at 7:35 PM on February 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
Just to pile on... What you got is very likely pan-frying, or stir-frying, like fried rice, as opposed to deep-frying, i.e. fried chicken. VERY different type of frying. The former is just enough oil to prevent it from sticking to the pan, while the latter is fully immersed in oil, blah blah blah.
If it's a piece of protein, you can always put it in an air fryer. Those are practically set and forget, and doesn't stink up your entire kitchen with smoke. And you can buy a simple and small one for like $45.
I rrecommend you get a food thermometer, one with a metal probe to stick into the food, to ensure it's done, as pan frying recipes don't always translate well to air frying. But that's the fun about making him learning how to cook for himself. :D He can experiment with it a little. It's really no much longer than putting something in the microwave, except it takes a little longer, and he has to remember to take it out and flip it or stir it at the half-way mark, and there are bajillion recipes out there for air fryers.
posted by kschang at 8:55 PM on February 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
If it's a piece of protein, you can always put it in an air fryer. Those are practically set and forget, and doesn't stink up your entire kitchen with smoke. And you can buy a simple and small one for like $45.
I rrecommend you get a food thermometer, one with a metal probe to stick into the food, to ensure it's done, as pan frying recipes don't always translate well to air frying. But that's the fun about making him learning how to cook for himself. :D He can experiment with it a little. It's really no much longer than putting something in the microwave, except it takes a little longer, and he has to remember to take it out and flip it or stir it at the half-way mark, and there are bajillion recipes out there for air fryers.
posted by kschang at 8:55 PM on February 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
I have a glass-topped stove. Before I had the glass-topped stove I had an older electric stove with covered solid metal burners. As lots of people have said, on any electric stove there is always going to be some lag between when you turn the knob and when the temperature changes, and yes, cooling is probably going to be slower than heating, so moving to a different burner is a good trick when you need to cool something immediately. But it really depends on the stove, and some kinds of cookware also heat up (and lose heat) more slowly than others.
I pan-fry things all the time, and have fried things in many different pans made with different materials and with different coatings, and my #1 takeaway from the symptoms you have described is: your burner is too hot. You may be turning the burner up too high because it seems like it's not hot enough at a low or medium heat, but because of the lag you need to give the burner and the pan some time to heat up. It took me a while to figure this out: when I was younger I used to cook on the lowest or the highest setting with nothing in between, but now I usually use one of three settings closest to the middle, and this is the best thing to do in almost every frying situation in almost every kind of pot or pan. Because all stoves and pans are different, and because of the lag, it may take some trial and error to figure out the optimal setting.
I suggest a series of fried eggs spread over several days (so that the starting conditions are the same every time -- cold egg out of the fridge, cold stove, cold pan).
Other than that, you shouldn't need to do anything special or complicated. You don't need a special kind of stove, or a special kind of pan, or a special kind of oil, or to bring anything up to room temperature beforehand. Having said that, it's possible for a stove to be faulty or for an old pan to be janky and warped or have a peeling coating, and you shouldn't use a low smoke point fat for higher temperatures. But picking a low-to-medium temperature setting and sticking with it is the very first thing I'd try.
(I am convinced that temperature lag is the primary reason that the first pancake comes out terrible for so many people, and I will die on this hill.)
posted by confluency at 11:44 PM on February 7, 2023 [6 favorites]
I pan-fry things all the time, and have fried things in many different pans made with different materials and with different coatings, and my #1 takeaway from the symptoms you have described is: your burner is too hot. You may be turning the burner up too high because it seems like it's not hot enough at a low or medium heat, but because of the lag you need to give the burner and the pan some time to heat up. It took me a while to figure this out: when I was younger I used to cook on the lowest or the highest setting with nothing in between, but now I usually use one of three settings closest to the middle, and this is the best thing to do in almost every frying situation in almost every kind of pot or pan. Because all stoves and pans are different, and because of the lag, it may take some trial and error to figure out the optimal setting.
I suggest a series of fried eggs spread over several days (so that the starting conditions are the same every time -- cold egg out of the fridge, cold stove, cold pan).
Other than that, you shouldn't need to do anything special or complicated. You don't need a special kind of stove, or a special kind of pan, or a special kind of oil, or to bring anything up to room temperature beforehand. Having said that, it's possible for a stove to be faulty or for an old pan to be janky and warped or have a peeling coating, and you shouldn't use a low smoke point fat for higher temperatures. But picking a low-to-medium temperature setting and sticking with it is the very first thing I'd try.
(I am convinced that temperature lag is the primary reason that the first pancake comes out terrible for so many people, and I will die on this hill.)
posted by confluency at 11:44 PM on February 7, 2023 [6 favorites]
The frying/burner situation has been covered........perhaps more generally. Following instructions to a t in cooking can be extremely important in some baking for example. Things where you need very specific proportions to achieve a desired chemical reaction. But even for baking the final time and temperature depends on your appliances and a lot of baking recipes will say all ovens vary, check how your baked good is doing after x minutes where x is less than the stated time it should take to bake.
Most other recipes don't state that outright but you absolutely have to do it for all things. The recipe is based on 'average' time and settings. You have to tweak based on your set up get good results.
That can be things like:
'hot' on your cooker/oven may be different from 'hot' on the author's > solution, if it burns when you follow the instructions turn your cooker down until it doesn't. If it should be boiling intensely and is barely simmering turn it up or use a larger burner etc.
How long things take to cook depends on the temperature of ingredients when you start to cook, the ambient temperature and humidity in your home, the temperature you apply to ingredients by cooking > you always have to test for doneness and adjust cooking time and/or temperature up or down. It's a process. Start to check a bit earlier than the recipe says something should take.
Specific spices/other ingredients > meal kits are designed to provide what you need which is great. But as you discover favourite dishes/flavours - don't be afraid to adjust these things to your tastes as you make a dish more frequently
A.mount of oil/water/broth used to cook things > you need enough for these things to do their job. So enough oil to do the kind of frying you are trying to do, enough water to support boiling in a given pot size and with the temperature you apply.
For example, I completely ignore how much oil a recipe says I should use for pan frying a chicken breast or steak and just use what I think I need. How do I know what I think I need? I guess by observing people cook and by trial and error. As a rule you can always add a bit more of anything at all to a pot/pan but it is more difficult to take stuff out once you've added it.
If you boil pasta/rice/anything and too much water evaporates before the pasta is soft enough you need to add more water. Ideally from a freshly boiled kettle because adding cold water will reduce the temperature of the pot content and it need to come up to a boil again which changes cooking times.
The only time where these things should not be seen as entirely flexible is if you are using a cooking method that relies on the hot water/broth being absorbed in full. But even then, if all the water is absorbed and your couscous is still too hard to eat you'll need a bit more liquid.
If you cook things like risotto, the instructions are to add a bit of liquid at a time, allow that to absorb and add a bit more until your dish has reached the desired level of doneness and consistency. One of the main reasons they say add a bit at a time is that all rice is different and all appliances are different and by adding a bit at a time you are most likely to have a nice, creamy risotto and rice that is cooked just right. So the recipe will indicate approximate overall amount of liquid but say add it a bit at a time. And you may then find you don't need as much or you need a bit more than the amount the recipe suggested.
What I am trying to say - cooking is very much a learned skill but with a significant component that relies on experience/knowing your tools and appliances and observing what is happening in front of you. Don't be afraid to adjust based on what is happening.
posted by koahiatamadl at 1:47 AM on February 8, 2023 [3 favorites]
Most other recipes don't state that outright but you absolutely have to do it for all things. The recipe is based on 'average' time and settings. You have to tweak based on your set up get good results.
That can be things like:
'hot' on your cooker/oven may be different from 'hot' on the author's > solution, if it burns when you follow the instructions turn your cooker down until it doesn't. If it should be boiling intensely and is barely simmering turn it up or use a larger burner etc.
How long things take to cook depends on the temperature of ingredients when you start to cook, the ambient temperature and humidity in your home, the temperature you apply to ingredients by cooking > you always have to test for doneness and adjust cooking time and/or temperature up or down. It's a process. Start to check a bit earlier than the recipe says something should take.
Specific spices/other ingredients > meal kits are designed to provide what you need which is great. But as you discover favourite dishes/flavours - don't be afraid to adjust these things to your tastes as you make a dish more frequently
A.mount of oil/water/broth used to cook things > you need enough for these things to do their job. So enough oil to do the kind of frying you are trying to do, enough water to support boiling in a given pot size and with the temperature you apply.
For example, I completely ignore how much oil a recipe says I should use for pan frying a chicken breast or steak and just use what I think I need. How do I know what I think I need? I guess by observing people cook and by trial and error. As a rule you can always add a bit more of anything at all to a pot/pan but it is more difficult to take stuff out once you've added it.
If you boil pasta/rice/anything and too much water evaporates before the pasta is soft enough you need to add more water. Ideally from a freshly boiled kettle because adding cold water will reduce the temperature of the pot content and it need to come up to a boil again which changes cooking times.
The only time where these things should not be seen as entirely flexible is if you are using a cooking method that relies on the hot water/broth being absorbed in full. But even then, if all the water is absorbed and your couscous is still too hard to eat you'll need a bit more liquid.
If you cook things like risotto, the instructions are to add a bit of liquid at a time, allow that to absorb and add a bit more until your dish has reached the desired level of doneness and consistency. One of the main reasons they say add a bit at a time is that all rice is different and all appliances are different and by adding a bit at a time you are most likely to have a nice, creamy risotto and rice that is cooked just right. So the recipe will indicate approximate overall amount of liquid but say add it a bit at a time. And you may then find you don't need as much or you need a bit more than the amount the recipe suggested.
What I am trying to say - cooking is very much a learned skill but with a significant component that relies on experience/knowing your tools and appliances and observing what is happening in front of you. Don't be afraid to adjust based on what is happening.
posted by koahiatamadl at 1:47 AM on February 8, 2023 [3 favorites]
I have a glass-top stove and unlike what most people think of when they think of the evils of electric cook-tops, it does heat up quickly and the high end is INTENSE. My dial goes 1-9 I think, and I only use the top end when I have a lot of liquid that needs boiling, and something around 6 or 7 range for stir-frying. For sauteeing filet/patty type things I will typically set it on 4 for the initial sear and then turn down to 3 or even 2 to slowly cook all the way through without charring the outside. Patience is a virtue, and avoid the mistake of cranking it up all the way to heat the pan faster, as it's easy to overheat the pan (or, if you have an ADHD-addled brain like mine, forget to turn it back down to something less than blast furnace before putting your protein on).
Another important thing to note for novice cooks is that sugar burns. Fast. So any kind of sauce that has sugar in it needs to go in at the very end of the pan-fry process, or cook at a very low temperature.
posted by drlith at 3:58 AM on February 8, 2023 [4 favorites]
Another important thing to note for novice cooks is that sugar burns. Fast. So any kind of sauce that has sugar in it needs to go in at the very end of the pan-fry process, or cook at a very low temperature.
posted by drlith at 3:58 AM on February 8, 2023 [4 favorites]
Mostly I agree with drlith above, but my experience is a bit different.
On my GE glass top stove, you have to start out with the burner on the highest setting. If you put on a pan in the mid-range, it'll still be cold 10 minutes later. I put a couple drops of water in a pan when I first put it on the stove. When those drops sizzle and disappear, I turn the heat to mid-range and get on with the cooking. I do most of my cooking in midrange, only going higher for a big pot of pasta water, and lower when I'm just keeping something warm.
Another quirk of my stove is that if you discover a pan is too hot and turn it down, the burner will still stay red for another minute. Crazy. Follow the advice above and move the pan.
I use non-stick skillets and very little oil for sautéing onions and other veggies. I cook talapia (from Costco) with only a pat of butter.
It sounds like the problem is mostly one of temperature control. Also not paying enough to what is going on in the pan.
posted by SemiSalt at 5:43 AM on February 8, 2023 [1 favorite]
On my GE glass top stove, you have to start out with the burner on the highest setting. If you put on a pan in the mid-range, it'll still be cold 10 minutes later. I put a couple drops of water in a pan when I first put it on the stove. When those drops sizzle and disappear, I turn the heat to mid-range and get on with the cooking. I do most of my cooking in midrange, only going higher for a big pot of pasta water, and lower when I'm just keeping something warm.
Another quirk of my stove is that if you discover a pan is too hot and turn it down, the burner will still stay red for another minute. Crazy. Follow the advice above and move the pan.
I use non-stick skillets and very little oil for sautéing onions and other veggies. I cook talapia (from Costco) with only a pat of butter.
It sounds like the problem is mostly one of temperature control. Also not paying enough to what is going on in the pan.
posted by SemiSalt at 5:43 AM on February 8, 2023 [1 favorite]
God so many people above with hobs that actively corrupt your intentions, taking forever to heat, or cool down, bang-bang control, no idea what it's doing, and so many ruined meals. IKEA sells a plug-in countertop induction hob for about $50. It has wattage, and more importantly, temperature settings. It uses a temperature sensor under the pan. Get a induction friendly skillet for about $20. You will rapidly get used to pans being hot and on temperature in 30 seconds or less, and being able to control what that temperature is very predictably.
Once you go induction, it's hard to go back.
posted by seanmpuckett at 6:28 AM on February 8, 2023 [3 favorites]
Once you go induction, it's hard to go back.
posted by seanmpuckett at 6:28 AM on February 8, 2023 [3 favorites]
If you're book people, another (imo) non-overwhelming source of information from a great teacher is the "heat" section of Salt, Fat, Acid, Heat. That whole book is excellent for learning to cook, including lots of clear illustrations, but the "heat" section in particular is an excellent place to learn about better managing heat to get the results you want across different types of cooking methods.
posted by mosst at 7:38 AM on February 8, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by mosst at 7:38 AM on February 8, 2023 [2 favorites]
I have read that certain cooking methods can cause high levels of advanced glycation end products (AGEs). These could potentially contribute to inflammation and certain medical conditions.
I think that this kind of information is something to consider as part of the big picture. It's possibly a good idea to try to reduce intake of AGEs, but it's not something you necessarily want to stress about as stress has its own health risks.
posted by kinddieserzeit at 10:29 PM on February 8, 2023 [1 favorite]
I think that this kind of information is something to consider as part of the big picture. It's possibly a good idea to try to reduce intake of AGEs, but it's not something you necessarily want to stress about as stress has its own health risks.
posted by kinddieserzeit at 10:29 PM on February 8, 2023 [1 favorite]
« Older What is your favorite family-friendly hotel pool... | Extension or other ways to manage many Windows... Newer »
This thread is closed to new comments.
Cooking on an electric stove is difficult for finely tuning temperature. It's okay for raising the temp, but lowering it is futile. What I have found to be a suitable solution when I cook on an electric stove is to switch burners when you need to reduce the temperature. So if the burner being utilized gets too hot, rather than trying to lower the temp, turn on a second burner to a lower temperature and move your pan accordingly.
posted by wile e at 11:41 AM on February 7, 2023 [25 favorites]