What is reasonable to expect in first grade?
December 5, 2022 7:54 AM Subscribe
My very bright daughter is struggling with the transition from kindergarten to first grade. I think? We struggle to have her do homework, she doesn't seem to retain what she has studied, and I sense that her reading and math acquisition is slower than it should be. I don't have many data points so I'm hoping for some perspective.
My daughter was "promoted" early from preschool to kindergarten, and started first grade this fall as the youngest in her class. This was done at the initiative of the school, because she was so far ahead of her peers in preschool. [Turning back the clock on this is not an option now]
She is at a academically-minded bilingual school, where she speaks both languages natively. She is 5, turning 6 soon.
What I've noticed:
- homework is a major struggle. She doesn't want to do it so she stalls, goofs off, and usually ends up just refusing and often screaming at me. It's infinitely painful trying to sit with her to do the 20-ish minutes she is assigned per day. We don't have the time or patience on weekdays, so we often end up trying to do everything in one 1.5 hour session on the weekend. This is too painful for words.
- she is learning to read, slowly. Much more slowly than her sibling, and almost not at all in one of the two languages. I don't see the progress I would have expected halfway through the year, especially with a kid that is otherwise razor sharp. Her writing, on the other hand, is excellent (when she is copying something from the board).
-She is great at mental math, but cannot seem to match the numbers to their visual representation. I asked her to write 13 yesterday -- as part of her assigned homework -- and she wrote "31" but with both the 3 and 1 backwards. My only reference on this is that the national curriculum says they should be familiar with and able to easily use numbers 1-20 by this point, so I think she is behind.
-When she brought home her work for half-term, about 2/3 was done perfectly (100%) and the other third terribly (0-20%). There wasn't any in-between.
We have talked to the teacher who said she didn't see any problems academically. But that she has a strong character, and sometimes just simply doesn't want to do work during class time. She seems to have not yet grasped that she doesn't really have a choice in the matter.
So, am I right to be concerned? Is this normal, and we should just leave her alone for a while? Should we go back to the teacher?
As a first step, I am thinking that we abandon the homework entirely at least for a few months and then try again. How to balance between relieving the pressure and bringing some serenity back to the house vs. setting a good example and creating good habits? Should I let the teacher know?
Thanks for reading and for any insight!
My daughter was "promoted" early from preschool to kindergarten, and started first grade this fall as the youngest in her class. This was done at the initiative of the school, because she was so far ahead of her peers in preschool. [Turning back the clock on this is not an option now]
She is at a academically-minded bilingual school, where she speaks both languages natively. She is 5, turning 6 soon.
What I've noticed:
- homework is a major struggle. She doesn't want to do it so she stalls, goofs off, and usually ends up just refusing and often screaming at me. It's infinitely painful trying to sit with her to do the 20-ish minutes she is assigned per day. We don't have the time or patience on weekdays, so we often end up trying to do everything in one 1.5 hour session on the weekend. This is too painful for words.
- she is learning to read, slowly. Much more slowly than her sibling, and almost not at all in one of the two languages. I don't see the progress I would have expected halfway through the year, especially with a kid that is otherwise razor sharp. Her writing, on the other hand, is excellent (when she is copying something from the board).
-She is great at mental math, but cannot seem to match the numbers to their visual representation. I asked her to write 13 yesterday -- as part of her assigned homework -- and she wrote "31" but with both the 3 and 1 backwards. My only reference on this is that the national curriculum says they should be familiar with and able to easily use numbers 1-20 by this point, so I think she is behind.
-When she brought home her work for half-term, about 2/3 was done perfectly (100%) and the other third terribly (0-20%). There wasn't any in-between.
We have talked to the teacher who said she didn't see any problems academically. But that she has a strong character, and sometimes just simply doesn't want to do work during class time. She seems to have not yet grasped that she doesn't really have a choice in the matter.
So, am I right to be concerned? Is this normal, and we should just leave her alone for a while? Should we go back to the teacher?
As a first step, I am thinking that we abandon the homework entirely at least for a few months and then try again. How to balance between relieving the pressure and bringing some serenity back to the house vs. setting a good example and creating good habits? Should I let the teacher know?
Thanks for reading and for any insight!
I would be concerned that a first grader has homework and pressure to "get things right". That's not developmentally constructive given her age. The most important thing for her to learn is that learning is fun! My first step would be to talk with the school and clarify that in your home, first grade homework is optional. Hopefully the school will be supportive.
I wouldn't be overly concerned about academic performance, but of course it's hard to say without knowing what her peers are doing. As Gudrun pointed out, there may be some dyslexia or dysgraphia going on, so you could consider asking for assessment from the school for that specific issue, and in any case keep an eye on it.
posted by Winnie the Proust at 8:10 AM on December 5, 2022 [30 favorites]
I wouldn't be overly concerned about academic performance, but of course it's hard to say without knowing what her peers are doing. As Gudrun pointed out, there may be some dyslexia or dysgraphia going on, so you could consider asking for assessment from the school for that specific issue, and in any case keep an eye on it.
posted by Winnie the Proust at 8:10 AM on December 5, 2022 [30 favorites]
My daughter was "promoted" early from preschool to kindergarten, and started first grade this fall as the youngest in her class. This was done at the initiative of the school, because she was so far ahead of her peers in preschool. [Turning back the clock on this is not an option now]
5 years old in first grade is incredibly young, and I think all of these issues could be attributed to that. Not sure why holding back a year isn't an option, but it really should be on the table - to always be so young in the classroom is going to be shoving a round peg into a square hole.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 8:19 AM on December 5, 2022 [46 favorites]
5 years old in first grade is incredibly young, and I think all of these issues could be attributed to that. Not sure why holding back a year isn't an option, but it really should be on the table - to always be so young in the classroom is going to be shoving a round peg into a square hole.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 8:19 AM on December 5, 2022 [46 favorites]
As a five year old, developmentally, I think homework is inappropriate. My kid is one of the oldest in her first grade class, and there is an enormous range of reading/writing ability just in the 15ish kids in her room. However, she has not been assigned homework the way you are describing - I'm a little concerned that your kid's class has mandatory homework at all in first grade!
My kid is a strong reader and got interested in writing this year, so that's getting stronger as well. But a year ago, when she was in kindergarten and the same age your kid is now, she was still writing in all capitals, backwards letters and numbers, and not writing in a line. It sounds to me like you don't have to worry too much about your kid's ability, but I would keep an eye on the classroom environment to make sure there's not an inappropriate level of pressure on her to develop faster than her normal.
posted by Lawn Beaver at 8:22 AM on December 5, 2022 [19 favorites]
My kid is a strong reader and got interested in writing this year, so that's getting stronger as well. But a year ago, when she was in kindergarten and the same age your kid is now, she was still writing in all capitals, backwards letters and numbers, and not writing in a line. It sounds to me like you don't have to worry too much about your kid's ability, but I would keep an eye on the classroom environment to make sure there's not an inappropriate level of pressure on her to develop faster than her normal.
posted by Lawn Beaver at 8:22 AM on December 5, 2022 [19 favorites]
Homework is often a great trial. Be fierce, set a time, and do it. Set up a rewards chart for homework, and make small rewards plentiful; that's easy with stickers and small items. Homework in 1st grade is kind of idiotic, so the task is to get it done, not to get it done perfectly. Set aside an amount of time, once it's done, she can choose a book for you to read to her, something to color, learn a song. These are all academic tasks that are fun. Reduce any formal academics that are not obviously fun.
You can find tons of old Sesame Street on youtube, and other reasonably educational shows. This is a good reward for homework time. Learning to read is assisted by lots of supportive material/ enriching environment.
I'd be most concerned with her learning to hate school so soon. Learning to read, albeit not speedily, at 5-6 is fine. Work hard at not applying academic pressure at home. Ask questions about school that include Who did you play with at recess? or What did you sing?
Music is really good for all sorts of brain development, and it's really any music, not just classical. Play music, dance, sing. Nature, exercise, and Outdoors are also fundamental. Go for walks, learn about trees.
posted by theora55 at 8:24 AM on December 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
You can find tons of old Sesame Street on youtube, and other reasonably educational shows. This is a good reward for homework time. Learning to read is assisted by lots of supportive material/ enriching environment.
I'd be most concerned with her learning to hate school so soon. Learning to read, albeit not speedily, at 5-6 is fine. Work hard at not applying academic pressure at home. Ask questions about school that include Who did you play with at recess? or What did you sing?
Music is really good for all sorts of brain development, and it's really any music, not just classical. Play music, dance, sing. Nature, exercise, and Outdoors are also fundamental. Go for walks, learn about trees.
posted by theora55 at 8:24 AM on December 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I would be concerned. Not necessarily about the things you're concerned about. Four concerns.
1. I would have her tested for learning disabilities just in case.
2. Regardless of what the tests show it sounds like she's under a lot of pressure. A kid that age should not be doing homework. Tell the teacher you're opting out of homework, for starters.
3. I don't like the teacher's dismissive response to your concerns. Writing your daughter off as a "strong character" shifts the problem to your daughter. If your daughter is not engaging, that's about the fit between your daughter and what they are doing. I'm not saying the teacher needs to turn into some sort of clown/entertainer but ofnyour daughter doesn't understand place value then they haven't done a good job of building a strong understanding of how the decimal system works (assuming no dyslexia). If they pushed her to start doing calculations before she had that, that's on them. I would wonder if there are similar issues with the reading instruction. Does she have the building blocks to succeed at what they're asking her to do?
4. Being dismissed and being asked to.do things she is not prepared to do is disheartening. You don't want that to be her experience of school.or of learning. Take her experience seriously. It matters more than whether she can do math and show her work.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 8:29 AM on December 5, 2022 [16 favorites]
1. I would have her tested for learning disabilities just in case.
2. Regardless of what the tests show it sounds like she's under a lot of pressure. A kid that age should not be doing homework. Tell the teacher you're opting out of homework, for starters.
3. I don't like the teacher's dismissive response to your concerns. Writing your daughter off as a "strong character" shifts the problem to your daughter. If your daughter is not engaging, that's about the fit between your daughter and what they are doing. I'm not saying the teacher needs to turn into some sort of clown/entertainer but ofnyour daughter doesn't understand place value then they haven't done a good job of building a strong understanding of how the decimal system works (assuming no dyslexia). If they pushed her to start doing calculations before she had that, that's on them. I would wonder if there are similar issues with the reading instruction. Does she have the building blocks to succeed at what they're asking her to do?
4. Being dismissed and being asked to.do things she is not prepared to do is disheartening. You don't want that to be her experience of school.or of learning. Take her experience seriously. It matters more than whether she can do math and show her work.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 8:29 AM on December 5, 2022 [16 favorites]
Putting aside the absurdity of the demands we place on children in American education these days, I'm going to echo ThePinkSuperhero - 5 is really, really young for 1st grade and you should really consider having her repeat the grade next year - for social reasons as well as academic.
It's going to be a bigger issue later on when she is 12 years old in 8th grade when some kids are already 14 - or when she is 16 entering her senior year of high school. There's really few positive benefits in keeping her ahead of her age cohort.
posted by gnutron at 8:31 AM on December 5, 2022 [11 favorites]
It's going to be a bigger issue later on when she is 12 years old in 8th grade when some kids are already 14 - or when she is 16 entering her senior year of high school. There's really few positive benefits in keeping her ahead of her age cohort.
posted by gnutron at 8:31 AM on December 5, 2022 [11 favorites]
Response by poster: Thanks for the answers so far! To clarify --
5 years old in first grade is incredibly young, and I think all of these issues could be attributed to that. Not sure why holding back a year isn't an option, but it really should be on the table - to always be so young in the classroom is going to be shoving a round peg into a square hole.
She's only a couple weeks younger, since the age cutoffs are different here. If she was born 3 weeks earlier she would have been at the cutoff and naturally already in first grade.
posted by ohio at 8:36 AM on December 5, 2022
5 years old in first grade is incredibly young, and I think all of these issues could be attributed to that. Not sure why holding back a year isn't an option, but it really should be on the table - to always be so young in the classroom is going to be shoving a round peg into a square hole.
She's only a couple weeks younger, since the age cutoffs are different here. If she was born 3 weeks earlier she would have been at the cutoff and naturally already in first grade.
posted by ohio at 8:36 AM on December 5, 2022
Best answer: Teacher here.
So, am I right to be concerned? Is this normal, and we should just leave her alone for a while? Should we go back to the teacher?
Yes, but just because we're always concerned about our kids.
Yes, what she's doing is completely developmentally normal.
Yes, drop the homework.
I wouldn't bother with the teacher.
There are a ton of studies that show bilingual kids acquire early numeracy and literacy skills at a slower rate than their monolingual peers. Brain developmental is a wildly different thing for kids, especially now with the pandemic years. Kids are developing at different rates and it's okay!
Everything you're describing is totally normal, especially the homework aversion. I would stop having her do homework. Just read books together or do math when you're out and about.
I would also advise against testing ONLY because post-pandemic, most kids DO qualify for disabilities but that's only because the rubrics and testing standards are based on pre-pandemic students. Believe me, I spend so much time testing kids who qualify now who absolutely would not have qualified in 2019.
Reach out if I can be of some help-seems like you're doing all the right things!
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 8:47 AM on December 5, 2022 [23 favorites]
So, am I right to be concerned? Is this normal, and we should just leave her alone for a while? Should we go back to the teacher?
Yes, but just because we're always concerned about our kids.
Yes, what she's doing is completely developmentally normal.
Yes, drop the homework.
I wouldn't bother with the teacher.
There are a ton of studies that show bilingual kids acquire early numeracy and literacy skills at a slower rate than their monolingual peers. Brain developmental is a wildly different thing for kids, especially now with the pandemic years. Kids are developing at different rates and it's okay!
Everything you're describing is totally normal, especially the homework aversion. I would stop having her do homework. Just read books together or do math when you're out and about.
I would also advise against testing ONLY because post-pandemic, most kids DO qualify for disabilities but that's only because the rubrics and testing standards are based on pre-pandemic students. Believe me, I spend so much time testing kids who qualify now who absolutely would not have qualified in 2019.
Reach out if I can be of some help-seems like you're doing all the right things!
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 8:47 AM on December 5, 2022 [23 favorites]
Writing letters and numbers backwards sometimes is normal at that age and not anything to be concerned about. Reading will just click when she's ready for it, and not reading at five is not unusual at all. My son was doing these things when he was five, in kindergarten, and now in first grade he's a good reader. He had an epiphany at some point that reading opened up a whole world of fun books. That was a much stronger motivator than any amount of prodding from his parents. Make sure her environment is stocked with fun, age-appropriate books.
I'd be concerned that the negative emotions from pushing on the homework is doing more harm than good.
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 8:51 AM on December 5, 2022 [5 favorites]
I'd be concerned that the negative emotions from pushing on the homework is doing more harm than good.
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 8:51 AM on December 5, 2022 [5 favorites]
Just as a data point, I had a bright kid in a bilingual school, and in the middle of first grade I was worried that she wasn’t reading fluently yet — it seemed slow in light of what she was like generally. Just when I was getting really worried, it clicked for her in both languages and she’s been academically successful through college graduation.
posted by LizardBreath at 8:52 AM on December 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by LizardBreath at 8:52 AM on December 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
An hour and a half of homework is insane on the weekend. I'd stop doing all homework.
posted by tiny frying pan at 9:10 AM on December 5, 2022 [16 favorites]
posted by tiny frying pan at 9:10 AM on December 5, 2022 [16 favorites]
As a first step, I am thinking that we abandon the homework entirely at least for a few months and then try again. How to balance between relieving the pressure and bringing some serenity back to the house vs. setting a good example and creating good habits? Should I let the teacher know?
For our kid (currently in 2nd grade, has ADHD so sitting still and doing homework is A CHORE), the arrangement we have with his teacher is that we will do homework in tiny chunks and we stop once he starts getting too fidgety or zoned out or resistant. So we tackle homework in bite-sized pieces. A few math problems as he eats breakfast. He copies down a set of spelling words before we turn on the TV. Then once it's due, his dad or I sign the homework to show we did work on it with him and we are aware it's not 100% complete, and whatever gets done, gets done. Something like this might be a nice compromise for your kid as it cuts back on the sheer volume of homework and the pressure to DO IT ALL, but it still keeps a bit of a homework habit running. Once in a while, he just can't cope and we add a little note like "it was a hard week so we focused on independent reading time" and that's fine.
We have also found before school in the morning is actually the best time to get homework done for him. He's refreshed and he's not mentally wrung out from a full day of school, and he knows it's only for a little bit because the bus is coming. When he was in first grade and adjusting to homework, I used chocolate chips to help with basic math problems (5 chips plus 2 chips equals seven chips) and he could eat them after he finished a few, which helped his motivation. We also let him skip around and pick whichever problems or questions he wants, instead of going straight down the line.
posted by castlebravo at 9:12 AM on December 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
For our kid (currently in 2nd grade, has ADHD so sitting still and doing homework is A CHORE), the arrangement we have with his teacher is that we will do homework in tiny chunks and we stop once he starts getting too fidgety or zoned out or resistant. So we tackle homework in bite-sized pieces. A few math problems as he eats breakfast. He copies down a set of spelling words before we turn on the TV. Then once it's due, his dad or I sign the homework to show we did work on it with him and we are aware it's not 100% complete, and whatever gets done, gets done. Something like this might be a nice compromise for your kid as it cuts back on the sheer volume of homework and the pressure to DO IT ALL, but it still keeps a bit of a homework habit running. Once in a while, he just can't cope and we add a little note like "it was a hard week so we focused on independent reading time" and that's fine.
We have also found before school in the morning is actually the best time to get homework done for him. He's refreshed and he's not mentally wrung out from a full day of school, and he knows it's only for a little bit because the bus is coming. When he was in first grade and adjusting to homework, I used chocolate chips to help with basic math problems (5 chips plus 2 chips equals seven chips) and he could eat them after he finished a few, which helped his motivation. We also let him skip around and pick whichever problems or questions he wants, instead of going straight down the line.
posted by castlebravo at 9:12 AM on December 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
I am not a parent, but this sounds a bit like my brother, particularly the "work is either 100% or not done at all" thing. He was eventually diagnosed with some non-specific learning disability after managing to completely fail a standardized writing test (like... being literate, which he was, and having a pulse should have gotten you a higher score). He never received meaningful services at school because they were completely unequipped to deal with a kid that bright, they just sort of threw extra time at him that he didn't need (again, he tended to be all or nothing, time generally wasn't the issue). My mom dragged him through school and it was unpleasant for everyone. He did surprisingly okay in college, despite the pattern of sometimes just not doing work continuing.
This is a long way of saying, if you do pursue testing, try your best to find someone used to dealing with bright kids and, even then, you may get an all but useless IEP.
posted by hoyland at 9:23 AM on December 5, 2022 [4 favorites]
This is a long way of saying, if you do pursue testing, try your best to find someone used to dealing with bright kids and, even then, you may get an all but useless IEP.
posted by hoyland at 9:23 AM on December 5, 2022 [4 favorites]
"Twice exceptional" is another search term you might find useful.
posted by aniola at 9:34 AM on December 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by aniola at 9:34 AM on December 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
Homework is often a great trial. Be fierce, set a time, and do it.
This is not good advice, and there's not a lot of evidence that forcing kids that age to do homework improves any outcome, educational or otherwise, that anyone cares about beyond parental bragging rights.
posted by mhoye at 9:39 AM on December 5, 2022 [25 favorites]
This is not good advice, and there's not a lot of evidence that forcing kids that age to do homework improves any outcome, educational or otherwise, that anyone cares about beyond parental bragging rights.
posted by mhoye at 9:39 AM on December 5, 2022 [25 favorites]
She seems to have not yet grasped that she doesn't really have a choice in the matter.
In one sense, no, she doesn't, because adults can use everything short of physical force to induce or compel her.
What's impossible to enforce is intrinsic motivation, eagerness to learn, or tenacity. External compulsion stifles those.
Which doesn't mean never use it -- she's five -- but it's not a good routine. One question I keep in mind is, am I pushing to start something, or am I pushing to keep it going routinely?
I'm in the US and speaking from that cultural context, and I know you just mentioned not-her-choice in passing, but I would be wary of a school situation where this comes up a lot. (My colleague who went through a highly academic Hong Kong school would be more vehement [not to say his is the only perspective on his school but it's one experience].)
posted by away for regrooving at 9:44 AM on December 5, 2022 [6 favorites]
In one sense, no, she doesn't, because adults can use everything short of physical force to induce or compel her.
What's impossible to enforce is intrinsic motivation, eagerness to learn, or tenacity. External compulsion stifles those.
Which doesn't mean never use it -- she's five -- but it's not a good routine. One question I keep in mind is, am I pushing to start something, or am I pushing to keep it going routinely?
I'm in the US and speaking from that cultural context, and I know you just mentioned not-her-choice in passing, but I would be wary of a school situation where this comes up a lot. (My colleague who went through a highly academic Hong Kong school would be more vehement [not to say his is the only perspective on his school but it's one experience].)
posted by away for regrooving at 9:44 AM on December 5, 2022 [6 favorites]
She's only a couple weeks younger, since the age cutoffs are different here. If she was born 3 weeks earlier she would have been at the cutoff and naturally already in first grade.
FWIW this was exactly the situation with one of my children, too, and repeating a year made all the difference for them.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 9:48 AM on December 5, 2022 [7 favorites]
FWIW this was exactly the situation with one of my children, too, and repeating a year made all the difference for them.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 9:48 AM on December 5, 2022 [7 favorites]
Nothing that you are describing suggests any developmental issue, whatsoever. She's just a five year old that (absolutely reasonably) doesn't want to do homework. This sounds far too high stakes and matters little whether she finishes 20 minutes of busywork every evening.
You want to cultivate her interest in learning and exploration at 5, not the ability to fill out worksheets while simmering with resentment. Good idea to take a break for a few months or just this entire year.
posted by RajahKing at 9:49 AM on December 5, 2022 [9 favorites]
You want to cultivate her interest in learning and exploration at 5, not the ability to fill out worksheets while simmering with resentment. Good idea to take a break for a few months or just this entire year.
posted by RajahKing at 9:49 AM on December 5, 2022 [9 favorites]
Best answer: Some advice/thoughts from a mom and someone who works with kids though not at a school:
- homework - a 5-almost-6-year-old is already in a kind of stressed situation emotionally having to keep up with all the "do this, do that" at school.
There is a huge difference in focus/impulse control/emotional self-control between an almost-6 and an almost-7 year old (as the oldest kids in the class are.) This is normal.
I get why you advanced her but it is going to likely come out this way for a while. It's not likely about where her intellect is, it's all the other pieces of 'management' that it takes to learn.
I personally would take all the academic pressure off her and just let her play play play when she's not in school.
- if you do feel that the homework is important, keep it to a 5 minute session and do one when she gets home (or you get home) and one in the morning. We also found morning homework works way better. If you're spending the 5 minutes arguing, don't. (My kids are both kind of infamous for spending 30 minutes arguing over 10 minutes of homework...but I would definitely not pick that battle before the child is 8 or 9.) 10 minutes per grade as a total maximum is a good guideline.
- the reversals are normal at her age, same as not reading yet. However, you are the parent and if you have a big concern, it's totally okay to have her tested. Have you had her eyes tested? That might be my first step if not.
posted by warriorqueen at 9:57 AM on December 5, 2022 [4 favorites]
- homework - a 5-almost-6-year-old is already in a kind of stressed situation emotionally having to keep up with all the "do this, do that" at school.
There is a huge difference in focus/impulse control/emotional self-control between an almost-6 and an almost-7 year old (as the oldest kids in the class are.) This is normal.
I get why you advanced her but it is going to likely come out this way for a while. It's not likely about where her intellect is, it's all the other pieces of 'management' that it takes to learn.
I personally would take all the academic pressure off her and just let her play play play when she's not in school.
- if you do feel that the homework is important, keep it to a 5 minute session and do one when she gets home (or you get home) and one in the morning. We also found morning homework works way better. If you're spending the 5 minutes arguing, don't. (My kids are both kind of infamous for spending 30 minutes arguing over 10 minutes of homework...but I would definitely not pick that battle before the child is 8 or 9.) 10 minutes per grade as a total maximum is a good guideline.
- the reversals are normal at her age, same as not reading yet. However, you are the parent and if you have a big concern, it's totally okay to have her tested. Have you had her eyes tested? That might be my first step if not.
posted by warriorqueen at 9:57 AM on December 5, 2022 [4 favorites]
My mom taught art K-5, and her best friend at the school was a first-grade teacher - it was common for some kids to skipped ahead and then, ultimately, held back again. It can be hard at that stage to know what level a kid is best suited for. Besides the homework, does your kid like school? Does she feel like she's struggling? If she generally enjoys school, I'd trust the teacher's sense that she's doing fine.
I agree that the number one goal here should be to make learning fun, so if your kid can't handle the homework quite yet, don't push it. But also, are you giving here a good break between school and homework? If it's only 20min of work, she should be getting hours of free time/play between the end of school and doing homework.
I also wouldn't push getting tested for a learning disability quite yet , but keep it in mind - I got diagnosed with dysgraphia at 7.
posted by coffeecat at 10:00 AM on December 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
I agree that the number one goal here should be to make learning fun, so if your kid can't handle the homework quite yet, don't push it. But also, are you giving here a good break between school and homework? If it's only 20min of work, she should be getting hours of free time/play between the end of school and doing homework.
I also wouldn't push getting tested for a learning disability quite yet , but keep it in mind - I got diagnosed with dysgraphia at 7.
posted by coffeecat at 10:00 AM on December 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
It looks like everyone has developmental stuff covered, so just a friendly note to add that, at some point as part of normal medical exams, make sure her eyes have been checked. My poor cousin was tested for every learning disorder under the sun, until almost by accident his mother realized he was colorblind and couldn't see the visual cues his workbooks were giving him!
posted by theweasel at 10:10 AM on December 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by theweasel at 10:10 AM on December 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
Anecdatum: my own kid was also a fall birthday and the "most advanced" in her pre-K. We had the choice of having her be among the oldest in the class if we gave her another year of pre-K, or the youngest if she went ahead with her friends to kinder. On the teachers' recommendation, we tried putting her in kindergarten, since she was so advanced, and those were her friends. It started off fine, but by December of her kindergarten year, her teacher was telling me that she was falling behind.
I pulled her out of the kinder at the mid-year break, and had her complete the year in pre-K; she went to kinder the following year. This was 100% the right decision. Since that time she has always done excellently well in school.
posted by fingersandtoes at 10:19 AM on December 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
I pulled her out of the kinder at the mid-year break, and had her complete the year in pre-K; she went to kinder the following year. This was 100% the right decision. Since that time she has always done excellently well in school.
posted by fingersandtoes at 10:19 AM on December 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
I think you've gotten a lot of great advice. In my mind at that age it's not about forcing kids to do stuff/learning by rote but rather to try and tease out their intrinsic curiosity and interest in learning. If it was me I would skip the homework battle and maybe replace it with something else so you're developing the 'homework time' habit but it feels less like work and more like fun. On the math front my kids loved Sum Swamp, you could also print out coloring pages that had numbers, etc.
The thing I found got my kids interested in reading was ...reading to them. You don't mention whether that's part of your routine, but if it isn't maybe replace some of the homework time with reading out loud or listening to audio books.
posted by snowymorninblues at 10:53 AM on December 5, 2022 [5 favorites]
The thing I found got my kids interested in reading was ...reading to them. You don't mention whether that's part of your routine, but if it isn't maybe replace some of the homework time with reading out loud or listening to audio books.
posted by snowymorninblues at 10:53 AM on December 5, 2022 [5 favorites]
Just wanted to add a data point that neither of my kids had homework in first grade. My oldest child didn’t start to have homework until 6th grade.
posted by MadMadam at 11:40 AM on December 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by MadMadam at 11:40 AM on December 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
Little eirias was also born on the cusp and is the youngest in her class, a choice we made for similar reasons to yours. Her transition to first grade was also very hard. If I could pick one decision in my whole life to try another way and see if the outcome is better, this one is a strong candidate. I know there are no guarantees with bright kids, though -- in educating our kiddos we're often picking the lesser evil and it's difficult to know what that is when you're going through it.
I'm interested that your teacher (1) seems unconcerned but then also (2) wants to put the blame on a five year old's character for the not-a-problem. Based only on (1) I would recommend you take the teacher's words seriously and be watchful but not yet worried, because that's the professional in the room, who knows more about your child and local norms than any of us do. I will say (2) gives me pause, a little bit. Could it be that the teacher truly thinks your kid is fine, and is just using (2) to deflect a little bit, to make the conversation stop? Or is there evidence that this attitude is widespread at the school? My hunch is if it were the second thing you probably would have heard from them rather than vice versa. But in any case that is another thing I would be watchful for, in your shoes.
posted by eirias at 11:40 AM on December 5, 2022
I'm interested that your teacher (1) seems unconcerned but then also (2) wants to put the blame on a five year old's character for the not-a-problem. Based only on (1) I would recommend you take the teacher's words seriously and be watchful but not yet worried, because that's the professional in the room, who knows more about your child and local norms than any of us do. I will say (2) gives me pause, a little bit. Could it be that the teacher truly thinks your kid is fine, and is just using (2) to deflect a little bit, to make the conversation stop? Or is there evidence that this attitude is widespread at the school? My hunch is if it were the second thing you probably would have heard from them rather than vice versa. But in any case that is another thing I would be watchful for, in your shoes.
posted by eirias at 11:40 AM on December 5, 2022
If you're going to keep brainstorming about what could be posing challenges, I'll second the recommendation to look into being twice-exceptional. Our kids passed standard eye exams, but their eyes didn't work well together, so they couldn't track words across a page. Graphic novels worked way better. Some vision therapy fixed that situation.
AND, that's too young for meaningful homework that isn't reading. Reading or engaging with a book in some way 15 minutes a day was my kids' homework at that age.
posted by lab.beetle at 12:05 PM on December 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
AND, that's too young for meaningful homework that isn't reading. Reading or engaging with a book in some way 15 minutes a day was my kids' homework at that age.
posted by lab.beetle at 12:05 PM on December 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
OP, I would be very wary of current pre-K and young elementary right now, there's an observed trend towards developmentally inappropriate curriculum because of the Common Core revision standards, so slow it down and get her assessed and find some alternative learning structures if possible before she learns to internalize poor lessons that will hurt her self-esteem. My friends who are parents and caretakers in the Bay Area (and also are trained teachers but are not-Common Core trained) are getting gaslighted continuously by teachers who keep telling them that nothing is wrong, when something is clearly going on. It's causing significant mental health distress in very young children, so it is clearly a systemic issue.
You're also in the Bay Area -- I grew up in the Bay Area, being gaslighted by school teachers is the norm. There is an incredibly toxic culture when it comes to educating children there, please be careful, you're swimming with sharks! My psychiatrist literally left the Bay Area because she did not trust current schools there to be developmentally appropriate for her child.
posted by yueliang at 12:23 PM on December 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
You're also in the Bay Area -- I grew up in the Bay Area, being gaslighted by school teachers is the norm. There is an incredibly toxic culture when it comes to educating children there, please be careful, you're swimming with sharks! My psychiatrist literally left the Bay Area because she did not trust current schools there to be developmentally appropriate for her child.
posted by yueliang at 12:23 PM on December 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
Best answer: If the choice is between not learning what she can from homework, or learning to avoid homework as a site of struggle and frustration, the latter will have a much more negative long-term effect on learning.
posted by lookoutbelow at 1:01 PM on December 5, 2022 [7 favorites]
posted by lookoutbelow at 1:01 PM on December 5, 2022 [7 favorites]
I mean this with kindness to you and compassion for her teacher: a 5-6 y.o. absolutely has a choice in the matter when it comes to doing classroom work. A huge part of first grade is learning how to be in school. Ideally, what a first grader learns is a mix of skills (e.g., tolerating a full day at school, listening, asking questions, etc.), norms of how to show respect to the teacher and peers, and reasons to cooperate that aren’t just “because you have to.” First graders have to make choices every day about classroom work, and there are hugely valid reasons they might choose some version of not doing the work (whether that looks like sitting quietly or disrupting the class). The grownups involved need to pay extra attention to what their behaviors communicate, because 5 or 6 is too young to be able to articulate, “This amount of work is too much for my brain,” or, “I don’t know how to manage my frustration when I don’t understand something,” etc. I think your concerns are warranted, whether the ultimate answer is that she just needs time to adjust to school, or something more complex (e.g., a different type of school is a better fit, waiting a year to let her catch up a bit socially/emotionally, testing for a learning disability). The choices she’s inclined to make are good data. It’s not overly indulgent or otherwise counterproductive to prioritize understanding the needs she’s communicating with her behavior first, before you move on to the question of how to get her to do her schoolwork.
I have vivid memories of hearing “Hooked on Phonics” radio ads before I learned how to read, and getting the idea that a) learning to read at the “right” time was really important, b) some kids struggled with reading, and c) I might struggle with reading when I got to first grade and that was really scary. I came to this anxious conclusion because of how grownups in my life talked up school and reading. I don’t blame them—framing education as good and important isn’t a bad thing—but I share this anecdote to emphasize that little kids perceive and feel a lot more about this stuff than they can verbalize or meaningfully act on.
posted by theotherdurassister at 1:13 PM on December 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
I have vivid memories of hearing “Hooked on Phonics” radio ads before I learned how to read, and getting the idea that a) learning to read at the “right” time was really important, b) some kids struggled with reading, and c) I might struggle with reading when I got to first grade and that was really scary. I came to this anxious conclusion because of how grownups in my life talked up school and reading. I don’t blame them—framing education as good and important isn’t a bad thing—but I share this anecdote to emphasize that little kids perceive and feel a lot more about this stuff than they can verbalize or meaningfully act on.
posted by theotherdurassister at 1:13 PM on December 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
I know you don't think another year is an option, but I want to be blunt. Schools expect first graders to be reading, full stop, not learning how. If your kid isn't there yet, that's just fine - but that means she likely will need another year in first grade.
I also want you to think about the consequences of her young age. She will be 17 her first year of college. She won't be 21 until more than halfway through her senior year. Why force this now? Give her another year to be a kid and she'll be much better positioned next year.
posted by notjustthefish at 1:35 PM on December 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
I also want you to think about the consequences of her young age. She will be 17 her first year of college. She won't be 21 until more than halfway through her senior year. Why force this now? Give her another year to be a kid and she'll be much better positioned next year.
posted by notjustthefish at 1:35 PM on December 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
Another vote for stopping the homework. My kids weren't assigned any at that age (USA, recently) and neither was I (Finland, decades ago). Children should be playing, not working, after school. It's important for their development, and also just fun. I know it's "only" twenty minutes, but I still am surprised to see that.
posted by The corpse in the library at 1:40 PM on December 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by The corpse in the library at 1:40 PM on December 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
Yeah, if you do any web searches on homework and elementary school, you'll see it's pretty controversial, and there's a lot of folks who argue, with evidence, that it's a waste of time. Next, yes, kids with strong verbal skills in two languages might develop reading skills later, and that doesn't mean they'll lag forever, not at all. Being bilingual at her age means her brain is super nimble and will likely retain that for a long time in ways you can't even see.
So yes to backing off the homework -- I'd even ask the teacher why they're giving homework in first grade at all -- and no to worrying. I think she's fine.
And even if she's close to the cut off age, she's still the youngest, and that does mean it's a bit harder. Sounds like she's doing really well.
posted by bluedaisy at 1:46 PM on December 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
So yes to backing off the homework -- I'd even ask the teacher why they're giving homework in first grade at all -- and no to worrying. I think she's fine.
And even if she's close to the cut off age, she's still the youngest, and that does mean it's a bit harder. Sounds like she's doing really well.
posted by bluedaisy at 1:46 PM on December 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
Best answer: My kid (young for the grade) didn't start reading until the end of first grade. My kid did not do homework until maybe high school. Maybe. I didn't force them to do it, and when the teachers nagged, I just shrugged. My kid now has a Ph.D. in English. I didn't do my homework either. I have a Ph.D. in educational research and I've published several books.
Homework has not been shown to have any effect on learning in a (now somewhat elderly, but thorough) meta-analysis of studies in the RER (Review of Educational Research) until high school. It's something teachers give because they think they should, and often parents demand it because they think it means rigor. As a retired teacher, I am now free to tell you that my students all struggled with their homework. The funny thing was, when they did the same work (or even their homework, if we ended class a little early) in class, they knocked it out in a few minutes. Kids don't do well with that kind of work in a home environment, especially when the parents are trying to help them.
The teacher says she doesn't see any problems academically. Believe her.
One last anecdata: When my students started middle school, the quality of their work went way down, to the horror of the parents. That was because they wouldn't let their anxious parents help them with their homework any more.
posted by Peach at 3:28 PM on December 5, 2022 [7 favorites]
Homework has not been shown to have any effect on learning in a (now somewhat elderly, but thorough) meta-analysis of studies in the RER (Review of Educational Research) until high school. It's something teachers give because they think they should, and often parents demand it because they think it means rigor. As a retired teacher, I am now free to tell you that my students all struggled with their homework. The funny thing was, when they did the same work (or even their homework, if we ended class a little early) in class, they knocked it out in a few minutes. Kids don't do well with that kind of work in a home environment, especially when the parents are trying to help them.
The teacher says she doesn't see any problems academically. Believe her.
One last anecdata: When my students started middle school, the quality of their work went way down, to the horror of the parents. That was because they wouldn't let their anxious parents help them with their homework any more.
posted by Peach at 3:28 PM on December 5, 2022 [7 favorites]
1.5 hours of homework in a day is way too much, so definitely stop the weekend cram sessions. Even 20 mins a day sounds like way too much to me if she's not liking it. If you must do homework, can you wake up 15 mins earlier and do just 10 mins of it every morning when she's more fresh? (And move bedtime 15 mins earlier to compensate). But personally I would drop the homework and just make reading and math fun by tying it into connection and life activities.
posted by nouvelle-personne at 3:35 PM on December 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by nouvelle-personne at 3:35 PM on December 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
Being the youngest in every grade is a significant handicap. Not only are you late in developing social skills, the smallest kid, and the one who is probably going to be last reaching neurological milestones, you'll develop the self esteem of the dumbest kid, and can easily be the one on the bottom of the pecking order. I hope that she gets to repeat a grade to protect her from these possibilities.
Development in kids is usually not steady. They can be advanced at one age and then behind at another and in other skills. It's just like their physical growth. At one point they keep growing out of their shoes, at another all the growth seems to be in height. Development plateaus and even regresses when they are making advances in another area or if they are going through stress. If she is the youngest in her class she doesn't have a lot of room to go through the inevitable regressions.
Learning to hate doing academics is a significant handicap. Your kid is going to learn a lot of strategies for avoiding the work - tuning out, playing dumb, lying about doing it, distracting the adults trying to coach her, bargaining for rewards to meet minor expectations, scribbling random answers, blaming other people, pretending to cooperate...
I'd be very worried if she's not happy. Homework in grade one should be pretty much a variation on play time - reading is fun, writing is fun, playing with numbers is fun. There shouldn't be any slogging, really, not until the kid gets the bit into their teeth and wants to advance enough to put the work in. If you are having to force her to do homework then she is not developmentally ready to do it yet.
If she's not avoiding homework because she's glued to her cartoons or some such, then the problem is the work she is doing or the approach people are taking to teaching her.
It really, really doesn't matter if she starts Uni at eighteen or nineteen or twenty. By that age nobody will be looking at their birthdays. But it does matter if she learns to hate school, and homework and academic subjects when she is six, because she'll struggle and be miserable until she somehow gets over hating it.
posted by Jane the Brown at 7:39 PM on December 5, 2022 [7 favorites]
Development in kids is usually not steady. They can be advanced at one age and then behind at another and in other skills. It's just like their physical growth. At one point they keep growing out of their shoes, at another all the growth seems to be in height. Development plateaus and even regresses when they are making advances in another area or if they are going through stress. If she is the youngest in her class she doesn't have a lot of room to go through the inevitable regressions.
Learning to hate doing academics is a significant handicap. Your kid is going to learn a lot of strategies for avoiding the work - tuning out, playing dumb, lying about doing it, distracting the adults trying to coach her, bargaining for rewards to meet minor expectations, scribbling random answers, blaming other people, pretending to cooperate...
I'd be very worried if she's not happy. Homework in grade one should be pretty much a variation on play time - reading is fun, writing is fun, playing with numbers is fun. There shouldn't be any slogging, really, not until the kid gets the bit into their teeth and wants to advance enough to put the work in. If you are having to force her to do homework then she is not developmentally ready to do it yet.
If she's not avoiding homework because she's glued to her cartoons or some such, then the problem is the work she is doing or the approach people are taking to teaching her.
It really, really doesn't matter if she starts Uni at eighteen or nineteen or twenty. By that age nobody will be looking at their birthdays. But it does matter if she learns to hate school, and homework and academic subjects when she is six, because she'll struggle and be miserable until she somehow gets over hating it.
posted by Jane the Brown at 7:39 PM on December 5, 2022 [7 favorites]
My kid was 5 in first grade in a bilingual classroom, and one of the youngest. They also have ADHD. The first term of bilingual learning (as opposed to the lessons they did in prep) was a nightmare. I remember a parent friend saying "oh thank god you struggled too" because my kid is quiet and polite so the meltdowns were laying on the floor crying, and headaches. Still enjoyed school but at NO POINT did we do schoolwork at home. My friend at one point had her far more outgoing kid throw such an expansive tantrum she ended up putting the kid into the backyard until she settled down enough. We were in no way willing to add to that work.
I handled it by making it very clear to my kid's teachers and school that homework at that age is actively detrimental to learning. Reading at home, engaging in other active processes like cooking or shopping or art, fine. But actual homework? No. And I was willing to come with the research to support that too. It meant my kid rarely got plagued by demands for extra busywork meant to satisfy either an overstuffed curriculum or demanding parents.
In high school, and when we did home based learning during the pandemic, we set aside time to work together. Kiddo at the table, me doing chores or my own work. I get asked to go over essays and things, and they talk a range of subjects. However we are still plagued by busywork over actual learning work - so much like me, my kid does most of it at school after finishing the rest of their work. I talk openly about exactly how broken that system is to my kid - they want to go into medicine and the current school is not serving them well for that.
My sister had enormous issues reading and writing, and similarly had huge gaps between quality of work. It took longer to click for her, and that was in much later grades as well as influenced by the Goosebumps series. She runs multimillion dollar budgets now.
My partner and I were the annoying advanced children sleeping in class with straight As. We are both precariously employed professionals.
My kid's dad had rampantly untreated ADHD and no consistency so nearly failed every class for no homework done ever. He runs million dollar departments now.
All of that informed and informs my approach to little kids and school. Some take longer, some are quicker, homework is unhelpful mostly, and find what appeals. Abandon homework with prejudice and inform the teacher, find books and methods of reading that appeal, screen for vision/hearing, and model the kind of homework system you want the kid to engage with.
posted by geek anachronism at 8:03 PM on December 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
I handled it by making it very clear to my kid's teachers and school that homework at that age is actively detrimental to learning. Reading at home, engaging in other active processes like cooking or shopping or art, fine. But actual homework? No. And I was willing to come with the research to support that too. It meant my kid rarely got plagued by demands for extra busywork meant to satisfy either an overstuffed curriculum or demanding parents.
In high school, and when we did home based learning during the pandemic, we set aside time to work together. Kiddo at the table, me doing chores or my own work. I get asked to go over essays and things, and they talk a range of subjects. However we are still plagued by busywork over actual learning work - so much like me, my kid does most of it at school after finishing the rest of their work. I talk openly about exactly how broken that system is to my kid - they want to go into medicine and the current school is not serving them well for that.
My sister had enormous issues reading and writing, and similarly had huge gaps between quality of work. It took longer to click for her, and that was in much later grades as well as influenced by the Goosebumps series. She runs multimillion dollar budgets now.
My partner and I were the annoying advanced children sleeping in class with straight As. We are both precariously employed professionals.
My kid's dad had rampantly untreated ADHD and no consistency so nearly failed every class for no homework done ever. He runs million dollar departments now.
All of that informed and informs my approach to little kids and school. Some take longer, some are quicker, homework is unhelpful mostly, and find what appeals. Abandon homework with prejudice and inform the teacher, find books and methods of reading that appeal, screen for vision/hearing, and model the kind of homework system you want the kid to engage with.
posted by geek anachronism at 8:03 PM on December 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
I asked her to write 13 yesterday -- as part of her assigned homework -- and she wrote "31"
This is me. You ask me to write numbers spoken aloud, or read numbers off a list, and I WILL transpose the digits. It's called dyscalculia. It alarmed my parents, but if it had been recognized at the time I might have avoided internalizing "math is hard" like the Barbie dolls of my youth.
And just to add that "100% done or not at all" can be seen in kids with ADHD (presents very differently in girls than the stereotype in boys!) but also that she enjoys some tasks more than others. What do those tasks have in common?
If you do decide to go homework free, please don't make your child the awkward middleman between parents and teacher. (By which I mean, your kid having to remind one authority figure why her other authority figure disagrees with them.) If the teacher really does insist on homework being done, it might be worth finding a different school, even mid year.
posted by basalganglia at 1:33 AM on December 6, 2022 [1 favorite]
This is me. You ask me to write numbers spoken aloud, or read numbers off a list, and I WILL transpose the digits. It's called dyscalculia. It alarmed my parents, but if it had been recognized at the time I might have avoided internalizing "math is hard" like the Barbie dolls of my youth.
And just to add that "100% done or not at all" can be seen in kids with ADHD (presents very differently in girls than the stereotype in boys!) but also that she enjoys some tasks more than others. What do those tasks have in common?
If you do decide to go homework free, please don't make your child the awkward middleman between parents and teacher. (By which I mean, your kid having to remind one authority figure why her other authority figure disagrees with them.) If the teacher really does insist on homework being done, it might be worth finding a different school, even mid year.
posted by basalganglia at 1:33 AM on December 6, 2022 [1 favorite]
Contra me, I read an article today that may tell you something about the larger context of background stuff for the conversations you're having with your daughter's teachers: Many kids are struggling. Is special education the answer?
posted by eirias at 8:29 AM on December 6, 2022
posted by eirias at 8:29 AM on December 6, 2022
Adding: reversal of letters and numbers is routine in the early grades, because orientation is a convention that is not obvious, added on top of letter/number shape. Add to that, neither my kid nor my husband is sure to this day which is left and which is right. People are different in the ways their brains work and that’s normal.
posted by Peach at 9:38 AM on December 6, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by Peach at 9:38 AM on December 6, 2022 [2 favorites]
Peach - a very late footnote to your comment. I have an atypical form of a learning disability. What is called "left right confusion" is part of the constellation of issues that go along with mine. (My aunt had it too. It can run in families.)
posted by gudrun at 8:48 AM on December 20, 2022
posted by gudrun at 8:48 AM on December 20, 2022
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by gudrun at 8:03 AM on December 5, 2022 [32 favorites]