Moving to the Pacific North West, probably.
January 10, 2022 9:28 AM Subscribe
Need some helpful advice on potential places to move up in Washington State or Oregon. I could also go ask in the appropriate sub-reddits, but I trust the green more. All the snowflake details below the fold.
Currently Mr. Objects, Kid Objects, and I live in Mesa, AZ. He's a post-college transplant from Virginia, but I've lived here my whole life, and quite frankly, I'm sick of it. The thought of raising Kid Objects here too, of trying to make it through another twenty years of oppressive, debilitating summers, and low level Republican craziness, actively makes my anxiety shoot through the roof. We're looking at a time frame to move of probably mid-2024.
I did do a search on old AskMe questions, but the most recent question I found that wasn't about Vancouver, BC was back from 2018.
I'm only interested in moving to a much "bluer" area. I know this means, mostly, large metro areas of the West Coast, or a large portion of the NorthEast. Since I'm not sure I could survive a TON of snow, and also not sure we could even afford California, we are more looking at Oregon or Washington state. I know a lot of people suffer from Seasonal Affective Disorder in winter in these places, but currently I suffer it every summer here. Late winter to late spring is actually my happy time.
We have old friends currently living in Tacoma, but the house prices in Vancouver seem (slightly) more reasonable. I'm willing to listen to people talk up pretty much anywhere from Eugene up through Tacoma, however.
We are a two car family, so walkability isn't that important. There is NO walkability in our current place, so the bar is so low that basically anything would be an improvement. We don't need to live in the downtown area of wherever we move, I've always lived in suburbs. I'd rather not move far enough out that Trump signs start sprouting from front lawns though.
Decent schools would be nice. Diversity might be even better. Currently we're in one of the best Mesa school cachements, with highly rated Elementary and High School, but it is so overwhelmingly white. Kid Objects won't be starting school for another year and a half, and is very bright for her age. With the resources her father and I can muster for her, she'll do fine academically anywhere I think, so I'd rather she make lots of friends from different backgrounds. Additionally she pretty much looks white, but I am much more obviously of Latin/Indigenous background. I REALLY feel out of place talking to all the other moms around here.
I like to cook a lot of different types of food. Having somewhat nearby access to Latin, Asian or South Asian markets is of moderate importance.
Ideally I'd like a good sized yard. Big enough to have a play structure for Kid Objects and a large garden for myself. My job is currently 100% remote, and Mr. Objects is job searching for the same now, so reliable high-speed internet is basically at the top of our priority list after structurally-sound house!
Outdoorsy stuff isn't important to us. We're both overweight gamers. Once Kid Objects is vaccinated we'd like to get her into some sort of sports or other activities.
Assuming the market doesn't crash in the next couple of years, we'll probably be able to sell our current house and come up with a $200K down payment on a new house. $800K would be a hard upper limit on what we could afford for a new house, but I'd be much more comfortable in the $650-700K range.
I figure we'd probably rent for a year or so after getting up there to get a feel for whatever city we end up picking. But neighborhood suggestions are totally welcome too, since otherwise we're pretty much throwing a dart at the map.
Currently Mr. Objects, Kid Objects, and I live in Mesa, AZ. He's a post-college transplant from Virginia, but I've lived here my whole life, and quite frankly, I'm sick of it. The thought of raising Kid Objects here too, of trying to make it through another twenty years of oppressive, debilitating summers, and low level Republican craziness, actively makes my anxiety shoot through the roof. We're looking at a time frame to move of probably mid-2024.
I did do a search on old AskMe questions, but the most recent question I found that wasn't about Vancouver, BC was back from 2018.
I'm only interested in moving to a much "bluer" area. I know this means, mostly, large metro areas of the West Coast, or a large portion of the NorthEast. Since I'm not sure I could survive a TON of snow, and also not sure we could even afford California, we are more looking at Oregon or Washington state. I know a lot of people suffer from Seasonal Affective Disorder in winter in these places, but currently I suffer it every summer here. Late winter to late spring is actually my happy time.
We have old friends currently living in Tacoma, but the house prices in Vancouver seem (slightly) more reasonable. I'm willing to listen to people talk up pretty much anywhere from Eugene up through Tacoma, however.
We are a two car family, so walkability isn't that important. There is NO walkability in our current place, so the bar is so low that basically anything would be an improvement. We don't need to live in the downtown area of wherever we move, I've always lived in suburbs. I'd rather not move far enough out that Trump signs start sprouting from front lawns though.
Decent schools would be nice. Diversity might be even better. Currently we're in one of the best Mesa school cachements, with highly rated Elementary and High School, but it is so overwhelmingly white. Kid Objects won't be starting school for another year and a half, and is very bright for her age. With the resources her father and I can muster for her, she'll do fine academically anywhere I think, so I'd rather she make lots of friends from different backgrounds. Additionally she pretty much looks white, but I am much more obviously of Latin/Indigenous background. I REALLY feel out of place talking to all the other moms around here.
I like to cook a lot of different types of food. Having somewhat nearby access to Latin, Asian or South Asian markets is of moderate importance.
Ideally I'd like a good sized yard. Big enough to have a play structure for Kid Objects and a large garden for myself. My job is currently 100% remote, and Mr. Objects is job searching for the same now, so reliable high-speed internet is basically at the top of our priority list after structurally-sound house!
Outdoorsy stuff isn't important to us. We're both overweight gamers. Once Kid Objects is vaccinated we'd like to get her into some sort of sports or other activities.
Assuming the market doesn't crash in the next couple of years, we'll probably be able to sell our current house and come up with a $200K down payment on a new house. $800K would be a hard upper limit on what we could afford for a new house, but I'd be much more comfortable in the $650-700K range.
I figure we'd probably rent for a year or so after getting up there to get a feel for whatever city we end up picking. But neighborhood suggestions are totally welcome too, since otherwise we're pretty much throwing a dart at the map.
Just a note that "highly rated schools" and "mostly white" tend to track together throughout the US. Understanding the actual quality of the schools beyond ratings may take some discussions with people who live there.
posted by jeoc at 9:46 AM on January 10, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by jeoc at 9:46 AM on January 10, 2022 [2 favorites]
Within the Portland Metro area, you'll find that Vancouver and the southeastern suburbs are a bit redder than the rest of the area (though that's probably still bluer than you're used to). Portland as a whole is very white, and I think you'll find a bit more diversity in Seattle.
If commute and getting to a downtown area isn't very important, I'd look at towns that have their own identity, like Bellingham, WA (may be further north than you want though). Possibly Beaverton, OR, if you don't mind a suburban feel. Gresham, OR, has some charms, and can feel isolated from Portland. For a small-town feel, Oregon City isn't bad, but it borders a lot of redder areas. If you can handle the gray and rain, Astoria would be another option.
posted by hydra77 at 10:09 AM on January 10, 2022 [1 favorite]
If commute and getting to a downtown area isn't very important, I'd look at towns that have their own identity, like Bellingham, WA (may be further north than you want though). Possibly Beaverton, OR, if you don't mind a suburban feel. Gresham, OR, has some charms, and can feel isolated from Portland. For a small-town feel, Oregon City isn't bad, but it borders a lot of redder areas. If you can handle the gray and rain, Astoria would be another option.
posted by hydra77 at 10:09 AM on January 10, 2022 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I think you might be happy with a place like Renton, Kent, or Auburn, WA. There are homes in your price range, a diverse population, access to international markets, and reasonably good schools.
The biggest downsides of those locales are also well aligned to things you don’t care about (poor walkability, less access to the outdoors, extremely suburban).
posted by whisk(e)y neat at 10:20 AM on January 10, 2022
The biggest downsides of those locales are also well aligned to things you don’t care about (poor walkability, less access to the outdoors, extremely suburban).
posted by whisk(e)y neat at 10:20 AM on January 10, 2022
I've lived in Renton and Kent, and there are definitely places in both you could buy a house in that price range somewhere walkable.
posted by wanderingmind at 10:29 AM on January 10, 2022
posted by wanderingmind at 10:29 AM on January 10, 2022
Olympia (Washington State's capitol) might fit your bill. The city itself is definitely blue. There is a nice little historic downtown and there is university that is pretty lefty oriented so you'll get a decent amount of cultural offerings.
posted by brookeb at 10:54 AM on January 10, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by brookeb at 10:54 AM on January 10, 2022 [2 favorites]
Best answer: Diversity plus the Pacific Northwest is going to be a challenge, especially outside of metro areas, and especially, I think, if you move to further out suburbs. Oregon has a relatively small population of 4.2 million, and about 87% white. Washington is larger, with 7.7 million people, and it's 78.5% white. And, the further out suburbs are going to get red fast. Vancouver, WA is more liberal closer in to downtown. It's also the place where a lot of the white supremacist groups in this area have a lot of members, once you get away from downtown.
Be honest with yourself about the importance of diversity. If it's a value, you need to start there and look for the pockets of non-white folks. I say this as a member of a multiracial family who moved to Portland several years ago and was quite intentional about this. You won't stumble into diversity in the Pacific Northwest, at least not Oregon.
Of course, within the larger metro areas, some neighborhoods will be more diverse, but again, you have to look for them if you value that. My kids attended majority Black schools in Portland, and that wasn't an accident but because of specific decisions I made about neighborhoods. It looks like there's more of a non-white population in Tacoma (which I don't know at all) than Portland metro. I also suspect there it would be easy to move into an all white neighborhood in Tacoma if you're focused on school rankings. What we regard as "good" schools generally tend to be white schools. This is not a coincidence but because schools with more white kids have more resources and wealth.
Having said all that, here are a few places to consider in the Portland metro area, which is the area I know a bit better:
Beaverton and some west-side suburbs of Portland: this is going to tick your boxes for suburbs, good schools, and some diversity. Because of Nike and Intel and other large employers right in and near Beaverton, there are more Asians in particular. But the numbers are still small: 73% white, 10.5% Asian, and some other groups listed here. Also look at Tigard and Tualitin, which have larger Latino populations, and other west side towns and neighborhoods.
On the east side in Portland, there's the David Douglas School District, which has more diversity and a good reputation, but I don't know if it's going to tick your boxes. East 82nd Ave in Portland is a center for the Asian community here as well.
Portland has a very small downtown. Most of Portland is actually neighborhoods that might be read as suburban, with single family homes with yards, especially off the main streets.
Your price range seems fine for these areas, based on what I know now.
I also think that this is going to be a harder adjustment for you than you realize. I'm not saying not to do it, but the early sunset is a real challenge for folks here, and especially, I'd say, my friends from the southwest. Winters can be a bit demoralizing here for lots of folks, with the early sunsets and rain (add in a pandemic and oof!). One of the reasons folks here spend time outdoors, I think, is to offset this. We take advantage of our dry summers, and being outside year-round is a good way to try to manage how grim and dark winter can be. Another strategy for managing this is to plan to take trips to Arizona or other sunny places in the winter. I've not always done this, but a few days in the sun, even if it's not hot, can make a difference for mental health.
posted by bluedaisy at 10:58 AM on January 10, 2022 [7 favorites]
Be honest with yourself about the importance of diversity. If it's a value, you need to start there and look for the pockets of non-white folks. I say this as a member of a multiracial family who moved to Portland several years ago and was quite intentional about this. You won't stumble into diversity in the Pacific Northwest, at least not Oregon.
Of course, within the larger metro areas, some neighborhoods will be more diverse, but again, you have to look for them if you value that. My kids attended majority Black schools in Portland, and that wasn't an accident but because of specific decisions I made about neighborhoods. It looks like there's more of a non-white population in Tacoma (which I don't know at all) than Portland metro. I also suspect there it would be easy to move into an all white neighborhood in Tacoma if you're focused on school rankings. What we regard as "good" schools generally tend to be white schools. This is not a coincidence but because schools with more white kids have more resources and wealth.
Having said all that, here are a few places to consider in the Portland metro area, which is the area I know a bit better:
Beaverton and some west-side suburbs of Portland: this is going to tick your boxes for suburbs, good schools, and some diversity. Because of Nike and Intel and other large employers right in and near Beaverton, there are more Asians in particular. But the numbers are still small: 73% white, 10.5% Asian, and some other groups listed here. Also look at Tigard and Tualitin, which have larger Latino populations, and other west side towns and neighborhoods.
On the east side in Portland, there's the David Douglas School District, which has more diversity and a good reputation, but I don't know if it's going to tick your boxes. East 82nd Ave in Portland is a center for the Asian community here as well.
Portland has a very small downtown. Most of Portland is actually neighborhoods that might be read as suburban, with single family homes with yards, especially off the main streets.
Your price range seems fine for these areas, based on what I know now.
I also think that this is going to be a harder adjustment for you than you realize. I'm not saying not to do it, but the early sunset is a real challenge for folks here, and especially, I'd say, my friends from the southwest. Winters can be a bit demoralizing here for lots of folks, with the early sunsets and rain (add in a pandemic and oof!). One of the reasons folks here spend time outdoors, I think, is to offset this. We take advantage of our dry summers, and being outside year-round is a good way to try to manage how grim and dark winter can be. Another strategy for managing this is to plan to take trips to Arizona or other sunny places in the winter. I've not always done this, but a few days in the sun, even if it's not hot, can make a difference for mental health.
posted by bluedaisy at 10:58 AM on January 10, 2022 [7 favorites]
Response by poster: I'd like to make a clarification about my post, if I may.
I said "decent" schools, which I actually categorize differently than "good" schools.
Good: Mostly white, well funded, lots of extracurricular activities, kids test mostly at grade level, few kids getting free or reduced lunch.
Decent: Bigger diverse population, Not as well funded, not many extra activities, kids might not be testing at grade level and many kids might be on reduced or free lunch. But the kids and the staff are doing their best, and there's no actual violence except the occasional school yard fight.
(Active shooter situations are, of course, a different issue entirely, god help us all)
I realize that this is the kind of judgement that's not easy to make until you're actually on the ground, talking to folks in the neighborhood. I'm willing to do this. The calculations also change drastically from Elementary to Middle to High school, but since Kid Objects isn't even in Elementary yet, I'm not going to borrow trouble and mostly focus on Elementary level now.
We can provide any technology, extracurriculars, or tutors our kid needs that the school can't provide. We know how lucky and privileged we are to be able to do this. I'm was hoping she can make friends from a lot of backgrounds, so that she doesn't grow up in an white, upper-middle class school bubble (which is totally what our current district is like, but we didn't have kids when we moved here, so we didn't even check).
posted by sharp pointy objects at 11:22 AM on January 10, 2022
I said "decent" schools, which I actually categorize differently than "good" schools.
Good: Mostly white, well funded, lots of extracurricular activities, kids test mostly at grade level, few kids getting free or reduced lunch.
Decent: Bigger diverse population, Not as well funded, not many extra activities, kids might not be testing at grade level and many kids might be on reduced or free lunch. But the kids and the staff are doing their best, and there's no actual violence except the occasional school yard fight.
(Active shooter situations are, of course, a different issue entirely, god help us all)
I realize that this is the kind of judgement that's not easy to make until you're actually on the ground, talking to folks in the neighborhood. I'm willing to do this. The calculations also change drastically from Elementary to Middle to High school, but since Kid Objects isn't even in Elementary yet, I'm not going to borrow trouble and mostly focus on Elementary level now.
We can provide any technology, extracurriculars, or tutors our kid needs that the school can't provide. We know how lucky and privileged we are to be able to do this. I'm was hoping she can make friends from a lot of backgrounds, so that she doesn't grow up in an white, upper-middle class school bubble (which is totally what our current district is like, but we didn't have kids when we moved here, so we didn't even check).
posted by sharp pointy objects at 11:22 AM on January 10, 2022
Best answer: Based on your update, I think you will find Tacoma will meet your needs. There's great cultural institutions (parks, museums) that provide those extracurriculars you will want for your kid, diverse schools, a variety of food markets, interesting scenery, somewhat walkable neighborhoods. Farther South, even in Olympia, things get way more white and more red until you get to the Portland suburbs. Olympia has a bubble but it's still pretty white and housing is limited.
posted by Maude_the_destroyer at 11:45 AM on January 10, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by Maude_the_destroyer at 11:45 AM on January 10, 2022 [5 favorites]
You've gotten a lot of good, specific advice on locations. I'd agree with the suggestion to add Bellingham to your list of places to look at, but also agree with all of the caveats above about diversity and schools throughout the region.
The thought of raising Kid Objects here too, of trying to make it through another twenty years of oppressive, debilitating summers, and low level Republican craziness, actively makes my anxiety shoot through the roof.
Specific to climate, there are a couple of things to note about northwest summers. First, it does get hot (much more so recently than in the past, due to climate change), but very few structures have AC or are otherwise designed for the heat. Second, summers in recent years have meant intense smoke events from wild fires that have created extremely unhealthy air conditions blanketing the region (often at the same time as the heat), making the usual outdoors escape-from-the-heat options unavailable. You may still like it much better than where you are, but do make sure you have considered the bad along with the good.
posted by Dip Flash at 11:52 AM on January 10, 2022 [7 favorites]
The thought of raising Kid Objects here too, of trying to make it through another twenty years of oppressive, debilitating summers, and low level Republican craziness, actively makes my anxiety shoot through the roof.
Specific to climate, there are a couple of things to note about northwest summers. First, it does get hot (much more so recently than in the past, due to climate change), but very few structures have AC or are otherwise designed for the heat. Second, summers in recent years have meant intense smoke events from wild fires that have created extremely unhealthy air conditions blanketing the region (often at the same time as the heat), making the usual outdoors escape-from-the-heat options unavailable. You may still like it much better than where you are, but do make sure you have considered the bad along with the good.
posted by Dip Flash at 11:52 AM on January 10, 2022 [7 favorites]
First, it does get hot (much more so recently than in the past, due to climate change), but very few structures have AC or are otherwise designed for the heat. Second, summers in recent years have meant intense smoke events from wild fires that have created extremely unhealthy air conditions blanketing the region (often at the same time as the heat), making the usual outdoors escape-from-the-heat options unavailable.
To add: the heat and smoke issues have been the subjects of multiple FPPs on this site over the past few years; you may find the various first-person reports and comments in those threads to be of interest.
posted by Dip Flash at 12:31 PM on January 10, 2022 [4 favorites]
To add: the heat and smoke issues have been the subjects of multiple FPPs on this site over the past few years; you may find the various first-person reports and comments in those threads to be of interest.
posted by Dip Flash at 12:31 PM on January 10, 2022 [4 favorites]
I figure we'd probably rent for a year or so after getting up there to get a feel for whatever city we end up picking.
I'd be afraid that if the housing market stays the way it has been that that $800K limit isn't going to go nearly as far in a year or two as it will now. In my little neck of the woods prices have gone up 30% in 2021. I know of places where they've got up by almost HALF. I recommend you do your homework and get a place that might be your new forever home, but might just be a base while you learn more about the area. If you get off the ladder, it may well be difficult/much more expensive to get back on.
posted by kate4914 at 12:45 PM on January 10, 2022 [2 favorites]
I'd be afraid that if the housing market stays the way it has been that that $800K limit isn't going to go nearly as far in a year or two as it will now. In my little neck of the woods prices have gone up 30% in 2021. I know of places where they've got up by almost HALF. I recommend you do your homework and get a place that might be your new forever home, but might just be a base while you learn more about the area. If you get off the ladder, it may well be difficult/much more expensive to get back on.
posted by kate4914 at 12:45 PM on January 10, 2022 [2 favorites]
White Center, Burien, Des Moines, SeaTac, Tukwila.
I'd recommend staying clear of the Seattle/Bellevue commute watershed if you're not tethered to jobs or family in the area. Your budget will get you a better quality of life in Tacoma or Olympia, and suitable diversity exists in those places, too.
There are also lots of lovely towns in Washington and Oregon that aren't on the I-5 corridor. Port Townsend! Hood River! Astoria!
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 1:25 PM on January 10, 2022 [3 favorites]
I'd recommend staying clear of the Seattle/Bellevue commute watershed if you're not tethered to jobs or family in the area. Your budget will get you a better quality of life in Tacoma or Olympia, and suitable diversity exists in those places, too.
There are also lots of lovely towns in Washington and Oregon that aren't on the I-5 corridor. Port Townsend! Hood River! Astoria!
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 1:25 PM on January 10, 2022 [3 favorites]
Lifetime Seattle resident here. Tacoma is cool once you get over the aroma, and Olympia I've always thought is a sweet place with a lot of interesting people in it (being the seat of government and historic in other ways) while not being too big.
Two other places to consider outside the immediate Seattle area are Everett and Bellingham, about half an hour and an hour to the north respectively. Everett is a modest but nice place but suffers from being just far enough from Seattle and Bellingham that a lot of interesting businesses and people move there instead. I have family in Bellingham and they like it - lots of different districts, easy access to Seattle and Vancouver (almost equidistant, border notwithstanding) and the San Juans if you're inclined that way. It's probably got the better schools of the two.
Depending on your lifestyle you might consider the west side of the Puget Sound, as qxntpqbbbqxl notes. Cute spots, touristy at present but plenty of neat little towns in our own sun belt (the Olympic rain shadow gives some of these places amazing weather). These are definitely small towns though.
Vancouver is a great place (I have family there too) but I don't know if the international thing is worth the almost guaranteed trouble it'll be right now.
posted by BlackLeotardFront at 1:46 PM on January 10, 2022
Two other places to consider outside the immediate Seattle area are Everett and Bellingham, about half an hour and an hour to the north respectively. Everett is a modest but nice place but suffers from being just far enough from Seattle and Bellingham that a lot of interesting businesses and people move there instead. I have family in Bellingham and they like it - lots of different districts, easy access to Seattle and Vancouver (almost equidistant, border notwithstanding) and the San Juans if you're inclined that way. It's probably got the better schools of the two.
Depending on your lifestyle you might consider the west side of the Puget Sound, as qxntpqbbbqxl notes. Cute spots, touristy at present but plenty of neat little towns in our own sun belt (the Olympic rain shadow gives some of these places amazing weather). These are definitely small towns though.
Vancouver is a great place (I have family there too) but I don't know if the international thing is worth the almost guaranteed trouble it'll be right now.
posted by BlackLeotardFront at 1:46 PM on January 10, 2022
Best answer: Hillsboro and Woodburn are two towns in Oregon that have a higher than (Oregon) average Latino population. Hillsboro is pretty blue, with some of the usual Oregon wackiness of anti-vax Socialists or conservative Christians supporting Bernie Sanders. It's part of the Portland Metro area but Portland's effect is really a more recent thing, becoming more noticeable in the last 6 or 7 years. It still has a very rural feel around the edges, which makes sense since it's the furthest town west on the MAX Train line and until recently something like 10% of the town was farmland.
Woodburn is another thing of itself. It's known for an outlet mall but per Wikipedia: "The racial makeup of the city was 60.4% White, 0.5% African American, 2.8% Native American, 0.8% Asian, 0.1% Pacific Islander, 31.5% from other races, and 3.8% from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino of any race were 58.9% of the population." It also has a large population of Russian Old Believers and Mennonites, so it's a very mixed bag. I mention it because while it's small, it's very diverse and the community has put a lot of money from the outlet mall into schools and the like. The city council, school board and such represent the racial makeup of the town as well, so it's not whites at the top everyone else down below.
I've never lived in either, although I'm local and have been to Woodburn for non-shopping reasons a couple of times. Most people go for shopping but it's also on the way to places like Silver Falls State Park or Mt Angel Octoberfest (unfortunately a gathering place for Nazi sympathizers). I'm fairly close to Hillsboro and go over there every week or two, so have seen the changes first hand.
I have family that lives in Mesa and I can't really think of anything in Oregon or Washington that's close, so I guess that's a good thing. Spokane maybe a little bit?
posted by fiercekitten at 3:43 PM on January 10, 2022 [1 favorite]
Woodburn is another thing of itself. It's known for an outlet mall but per Wikipedia: "The racial makeup of the city was 60.4% White, 0.5% African American, 2.8% Native American, 0.8% Asian, 0.1% Pacific Islander, 31.5% from other races, and 3.8% from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino of any race were 58.9% of the population." It also has a large population of Russian Old Believers and Mennonites, so it's a very mixed bag. I mention it because while it's small, it's very diverse and the community has put a lot of money from the outlet mall into schools and the like. The city council, school board and such represent the racial makeup of the town as well, so it's not whites at the top everyone else down below.
I've never lived in either, although I'm local and have been to Woodburn for non-shopping reasons a couple of times. Most people go for shopping but it's also on the way to places like Silver Falls State Park or Mt Angel Octoberfest (unfortunately a gathering place for Nazi sympathizers). I'm fairly close to Hillsboro and go over there every week or two, so have seen the changes first hand.
I have family that lives in Mesa and I can't really think of anything in Oregon or Washington that's close, so I guess that's a good thing. Spokane maybe a little bit?
posted by fiercekitten at 3:43 PM on January 10, 2022 [1 favorite]
I live / lived in Olympia for 2021 and Tacoma in 2020 (give or take a few months. Currently moving out of the area because of pandemic isolation.)
I find Oly a little bit conservative / like a bedroom community (I'm on the west side) with subdivisions and strip malls. Downtown is east side, and has some older businesses yet is a little run down IMO. I don't know what it's like outside of a pandemic but I get a real provincial vibe. The Evergreen State University doesn't seem to impact the community much, but again, without a pandemic it might? No idea about schools. It's very close to nature on the Olympic Peninsula, but annoyingly far from the airport. Free bus system, but no easy transit to SEA, Tacoma or Seattle.
I really liked Tacoma. I lived on the south side -- the not gentrified area. Yes it has a blue collar past, and an active and fascinating port, but there is no "aroma" (eyeroll. Seattle looks down on Tacoma). North of 6th Street is charming and older-- seems nice and neighborhoody. Definitely your price range can put you there. I'd look around the walkable Proctor District (where the farmers market is held every saturday). Lots of BLM signs and libraries. Tacoma evidently has transit to the airport / Seattle, and it's close enough to Lyft/Uber there. It does have great Indian food and the gorgeous Port Defiance Park.
The downside to the area is traffic (there is one and only one highway due to the water, the mountains, and a massive Air Force/ Army base), large unhoused population, an a lack of what I'll call "civic community" amenities like Parks and Rec centers since there are no state taxes to pay for them.
Feel free to MeMail me for any other details.
posted by travertina at 5:00 PM on January 10, 2022 [1 favorite]
I find Oly a little bit conservative / like a bedroom community (I'm on the west side) with subdivisions and strip malls. Downtown is east side, and has some older businesses yet is a little run down IMO. I don't know what it's like outside of a pandemic but I get a real provincial vibe. The Evergreen State University doesn't seem to impact the community much, but again, without a pandemic it might? No idea about schools. It's very close to nature on the Olympic Peninsula, but annoyingly far from the airport. Free bus system, but no easy transit to SEA, Tacoma or Seattle.
I really liked Tacoma. I lived on the south side -- the not gentrified area. Yes it has a blue collar past, and an active and fascinating port, but there is no "aroma" (eyeroll. Seattle looks down on Tacoma). North of 6th Street is charming and older-- seems nice and neighborhoody. Definitely your price range can put you there. I'd look around the walkable Proctor District (where the farmers market is held every saturday). Lots of BLM signs and libraries. Tacoma evidently has transit to the airport / Seattle, and it's close enough to Lyft/Uber there. It does have great Indian food and the gorgeous Port Defiance Park.
The downside to the area is traffic (there is one and only one highway due to the water, the mountains, and a massive Air Force/ Army base), large unhoused population, an a lack of what I'll call "civic community" amenities like Parks and Rec centers since there are no state taxes to pay for them.
Feel free to MeMail me for any other details.
posted by travertina at 5:00 PM on January 10, 2022 [1 favorite]
Though I absolutely detest the whole "people with money moving there and ruining it for the locals" that's happened/still happening, Hood River and the communities immediately surrounding it would likely be blue-enough - just don't go any further east. Less snow in general the closer to the freeway you are. In Hood River itself, you'd probably fit right in. The schools are generally considered pretty good... at least, until Covid pretty much destroyed the ability of any public school to be "good".
And, so long as heavily Hispanic is sufficient, it's easily the most diverse but not divisive place I've been in Oregon or Washington. Statistics show something like 30-40% Hispanic for the valley, but I suspect it's actually higher... an awful lot of people won't fill out census stuff, or acknowledge accurate numbers, and I'm not sure anyone even bothered to try to really make them with this last census, thanks to Covid. There IS a smattering of other groups, they're just nowhere near as prominent.
However, I wouldn't recommend anyone move there that is going to have an issue with whether or not someone is documented. It's no one's business but their own, and those that try to start guessing are usually wrong, anyway.
Honestly, the biggest challenge the entire Gorge faces is the wide break between the people with money and the people without. THAT's where the problems crop up at times, especially in the schools. It's very little about race and all about money, but then, I suspect that's the case all the way around.
If your family enjoys - or would like to enjoy - outdoor sports, there's really no better home base for it in the NW. And it's close enough to the Portland metro area to enjoy it when you want to, and avoid it when you don't.
posted by stormyteal at 6:25 PM on January 10, 2022
And, so long as heavily Hispanic is sufficient, it's easily the most diverse but not divisive place I've been in Oregon or Washington. Statistics show something like 30-40% Hispanic for the valley, but I suspect it's actually higher... an awful lot of people won't fill out census stuff, or acknowledge accurate numbers, and I'm not sure anyone even bothered to try to really make them with this last census, thanks to Covid. There IS a smattering of other groups, they're just nowhere near as prominent.
However, I wouldn't recommend anyone move there that is going to have an issue with whether or not someone is documented. It's no one's business but their own, and those that try to start guessing are usually wrong, anyway.
Honestly, the biggest challenge the entire Gorge faces is the wide break between the people with money and the people without. THAT's where the problems crop up at times, especially in the schools. It's very little about race and all about money, but then, I suspect that's the case all the way around.
If your family enjoys - or would like to enjoy - outdoor sports, there's really no better home base for it in the NW. And it's close enough to the Portland metro area to enjoy it when you want to, and avoid it when you don't.
posted by stormyteal at 6:25 PM on January 10, 2022
I’ll throw a plug in for Eugene/Springfield. Housing prices climbing fast here but you can definitely get something lovely for your budget here still. Really white, like most of the PNW-but our kids’ neighborhood school is dual immersion with 50% Native Spanish speakers, and definitely more blue than red.
posted by purenitrous at 7:01 PM on January 10, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by purenitrous at 7:01 PM on January 10, 2022 [1 favorite]
In California, the Sacramento area may in fact satisfy all of your criteria, including price.
posted by eviemath at 10:55 PM on January 10, 2022
posted by eviemath at 10:55 PM on January 10, 2022
Maybe it’s selective blindness but I’m not seeing anything that rules out Bellingham. It’s a little far from a major metro (I can’t wait for easy day trips to BC), but for me that’s almost a bonus. (I was in Philly for over a decade.) SAD is worse than almost anywhere else in CONUS but we deal with it by taking up winter sports and SAD lamps.
It’s hard for me to evaluate racial/ethnic diversity, but yeah it’s very white, over 80%, way more white people than Philly, that’s for sure. We live near a middle school and the crowds of kids we see are majority but not overwhelmingly white (though your goalposts on that will vary). We’re in a more diverse neighborhood, walking distance from a few Mexican groceries and butchers.
It’s getting expensive, but way less than Seattle and environs, and within your budget to get what you want. It’s a little bit of a blue bubble (Costco and Home Depot bumper sticker game is a scene) but you also get the lifted beat up pickup truck (which would normally be a nope nope nope nope for me) sporting twin rainbow flags.
We’re only a year and a half in but like it well enough. It’s notoriously hard to make friends at the best of times… and we arrived in March 2020.
posted by supercres at 10:58 PM on January 10, 2022
It’s hard for me to evaluate racial/ethnic diversity, but yeah it’s very white, over 80%, way more white people than Philly, that’s for sure. We live near a middle school and the crowds of kids we see are majority but not overwhelmingly white (though your goalposts on that will vary). We’re in a more diverse neighborhood, walking distance from a few Mexican groceries and butchers.
It’s getting expensive, but way less than Seattle and environs, and within your budget to get what you want. It’s a little bit of a blue bubble (Costco and Home Depot bumper sticker game is a scene) but you also get the lifted beat up pickup truck (which would normally be a nope nope nope nope for me) sporting twin rainbow flags.
We’re only a year and a half in but like it well enough. It’s notoriously hard to make friends at the best of times… and we arrived in March 2020.
posted by supercres at 10:58 PM on January 10, 2022
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posted by matildaben at 9:38 AM on January 10, 2022 [1 favorite]