Do banks really monitor ATMs for left cash?
April 29, 2020 7:22 PM Subscribe
I keep seeing oft repeated line that if someone is trying to deposit money or otherwise leaves money in the ATM, you're next in line and the person who left it is gone, that taking the money is stealing and the bank will track you down. I have several questions, 1. Is this really illegal or does this fall under abandoned cash? 2. Are there instances of banks really tracking down the person who took the cash?
I can't imagine the several hundred dollars left from a deposit or withdrawal would be worth it and the bank would count it as a "loss" if anything, rather then call the police on a customer.
To be clear I'm not asking what the ethical thing to do is, but I've seen it oft repeated on Reddit and Quora that the bank will track you down based on your transaction and camera. I really can't believe this is the case, even if it is actually illegal. I am not asking theoretically if they can track someone down, but if it is something banks do, because I can't imagine launching even an internal investigation would quickly burn up whatever money was left in the ATM, in terms of time people are spent trying to track someone down vs doing something else.
I can't imagine the several hundred dollars left from a deposit or withdrawal would be worth it and the bank would count it as a "loss" if anything, rather then call the police on a customer.
To be clear I'm not asking what the ethical thing to do is, but I've seen it oft repeated on Reddit and Quora that the bank will track you down based on your transaction and camera. I really can't believe this is the case, even if it is actually illegal. I am not asking theoretically if they can track someone down, but if it is something banks do, because I can't imagine launching even an internal investigation would quickly burn up whatever money was left in the ATM, in terms of time people are spent trying to track someone down vs doing something else.
If you're just passing through a strange town, that'd be one thing, but staff also know their regular customers pretty well. It might just be a case of "Oh, that was Fred."
posted by kate4914 at 8:04 PM on April 29, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by kate4914 at 8:04 PM on April 29, 2020 [1 favorite]
Is there such a concept as "abandoned cash"? All cash belongs to someone, and money found in at ATM near certainly belongs to the last user. Anyone who takes that money has to know that it belongs to someone else. So if you know it's not yours but keep it anyway (as opposed to handing it to the bank), that could be seen as criminal behaviour.
Banks have a duty to look after their customers' money. If they fail to do that, they open themselves up to claims of negligence.
posted by scruss at 8:08 PM on April 29, 2020 [1 favorite]
Banks have a duty to look after their customers' money. If they fail to do that, they open themselves up to claims of negligence.
posted by scruss at 8:08 PM on April 29, 2020 [1 favorite]
Theft by finding.
Banks have entire branches of people dedicated to detecting, investigating and preventing fraud and theft. They have well-established relationships with law enforcement and streamlined procedures for dealing with them. A couple of clicks is all it takes to send your date/time-stamped photograph / video to the nearest PD.
I'm aware (through a former job) of a case in Australia where a large bank tracked somebody down over an extra $50 note that was dispensed from a machine. This was trivial, because they had their card details, which were linked to their account, and they had nice clear shots of the person clearly counting the notes, identifying the extra one, then quickly making their escape. But it shows how little marginal utility is required for a bank to point a large existing capability at somebody. The people are getting paid to do this stuff anyway, so why not go after the $50?
A similar level of effort applies to social welfare fraud and overpayments. The bar for deciding whether to chase a debt is very, very low (in my country, anyway).
posted by some little punk in a rocket at 8:24 PM on April 29, 2020 [1 favorite]
Banks have entire branches of people dedicated to detecting, investigating and preventing fraud and theft. They have well-established relationships with law enforcement and streamlined procedures for dealing with them. A couple of clicks is all it takes to send your date/time-stamped photograph / video to the nearest PD.
I'm aware (through a former job) of a case in Australia where a large bank tracked somebody down over an extra $50 note that was dispensed from a machine. This was trivial, because they had their card details, which were linked to their account, and they had nice clear shots of the person clearly counting the notes, identifying the extra one, then quickly making their escape. But it shows how little marginal utility is required for a bank to point a large existing capability at somebody. The people are getting paid to do this stuff anyway, so why not go after the $50?
A similar level of effort applies to social welfare fraud and overpayments. The bar for deciding whether to chase a debt is very, very low (in my country, anyway).
posted by some little punk in a rocket at 8:24 PM on April 29, 2020 [1 favorite]
Given ATMs I know it's difficult for me to understand how this theoretical could happen.
posted by Rash at 9:03 PM on April 29, 2020 [1 favorite]
- Deposits
- When prompted, the slot opens. If nothing's inserted within a few seconds, the slot closes; transaction canceled. Would/Could a patron really leave the deposit elsewhere at this point, somewhere outside the machine?
- Withdrawals
- The slot opens and cash appears. If the cash isn't taken within a few seconds, the machine sucks it back inside and the slot closes, transaction cancelled. How could somebody else get that cash?
posted by Rash at 9:03 PM on April 29, 2020 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Given ATMs I know it's difficult for me to understand how this theoretical could happen.
I agree, I found the premise hard to believe if I hadn't seen it several times asked on Reddit, "Cash at location x" with some implausible excuse as to why they couldn't do the obvious like return it to the bank. I purposely didn't bring this up to not confuse the question even more.
Is there such a concept as "abandoned cash"? All cash belongs to someone, and money found in at ATM near certainly belongs to the last user. Anyone who takes that money has to know that it belongs to someone else. So if you know it's not yours but keep it anyway (as opposed to handing it to the bank),
I'm guessing these statutes fall under "lost and unclaimed property" in the United States, each varies by state as to how it is to be treated depending on the amount. Also I'm not about to get into law dealing with possession as I'm sure that's incredibly dense and complex and not intuitive, but based on my initial reading of several states, each has a different set of procedures as to what to do if you find "lost property" ... from writing an affidavit to a circuit judge in a county to placing an ad in the newspaper.
posted by geoff. at 9:19 PM on April 29, 2020
I agree, I found the premise hard to believe if I hadn't seen it several times asked on Reddit, "Cash at location x" with some implausible excuse as to why they couldn't do the obvious like return it to the bank. I purposely didn't bring this up to not confuse the question even more.
Is there such a concept as "abandoned cash"? All cash belongs to someone, and money found in at ATM near certainly belongs to the last user. Anyone who takes that money has to know that it belongs to someone else. So if you know it's not yours but keep it anyway (as opposed to handing it to the bank),
I'm guessing these statutes fall under "lost and unclaimed property" in the United States, each varies by state as to how it is to be treated depending on the amount. Also I'm not about to get into law dealing with possession as I'm sure that's incredibly dense and complex and not intuitive, but based on my initial reading of several states, each has a different set of procedures as to what to do if you find "lost property" ... from writing an affidavit to a circuit judge in a county to placing an ad in the newspaper.
posted by geoff. at 9:19 PM on April 29, 2020
Once a few years ago at a cash machine attached to my bank, I withdrew $100, only instead of 5 $20s, I received 4 $20s and a $50.
I went into the bank and flagged down one of the people sitting at a desk across from the tellers and asked to see the manager, was able to talk to an asst. manager, and tried to give the extra money back. No, he couldn't take it because there was no accounting category for it, and it would screw up some balance sheet or other in a way that would be hard to correct. "But what about the person who put the wrong bill in there? Won't they get in trouble?" Answer: 'I don't know, but I don't think so. Is there anything else I can help you with?'
posted by jamjam at 9:20 PM on April 29, 2020 [2 favorites]
I went into the bank and flagged down one of the people sitting at a desk across from the tellers and asked to see the manager, was able to talk to an asst. manager, and tried to give the extra money back. No, he couldn't take it because there was no accounting category for it, and it would screw up some balance sheet or other in a way that would be hard to correct. "But what about the person who put the wrong bill in there? Won't they get in trouble?" Answer: 'I don't know, but I don't think so. Is there anything else I can help you with?'
posted by jamjam at 9:20 PM on April 29, 2020 [2 favorites]
Withdrawals
The slot opens and cash appears. If the cash isn't taken within a few seconds, the machine sucks it back inside and the slot closes, transaction cancelled. How could somebody else get that cash?
The link provided by mbrubeck shows exactly how this can happen.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 10:49 PM on April 29, 2020
The slot opens and cash appears. If the cash isn't taken within a few seconds, the machine sucks it back inside and the slot closes, transaction cancelled. How could somebody else get that cash?
The link provided by mbrubeck shows exactly how this can happen.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 10:49 PM on April 29, 2020
This is not an answer, but a personal experience. I got my cash from the ATM and found an extra crumpled up $5.00 bill. I took it inside and gave it to a clerk whose mouth actually dropped open. Apparently, it had never happened to her before.
posted by Cranberry at 12:33 AM on April 30, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by Cranberry at 12:33 AM on April 30, 2020 [1 favorite]
As a corollary to the extra money reports, I had an ABM short me a $20 bill. Went into the branch, where they checked the withdrawal record, opened up the machine, and there was my $20, wadded up in the corner of the dispenser inside the unit. They exchanged that for a less mooshed one.
→ "lost and unclaimed property"
Those situations would tend to cover property lost on transit systems, or maybe found in an abandoned stash hidden after a theft, or even if you find a random $10 blowing along an empty street. In those cases, it's not clear who the money belongs to, so the affidavit or newspaper ad route would apply. But money in or around a bank machine? It belongs to someone traceable. Most importantly, it doesn't belong to you. Finders keepers applies only to primary school playground stuff and countries with standing armies to enforce it. Reasonable effort to find its owner needs to be made before it reverts to the finder.
(in jest, not alleging in any way this is anything the OP did: you should probably take that $200 back to the bank, we're on to you ☺)
posted by scruss at 3:02 AM on April 30, 2020 [1 favorite]
→ "lost and unclaimed property"
Those situations would tend to cover property lost on transit systems, or maybe found in an abandoned stash hidden after a theft, or even if you find a random $10 blowing along an empty street. In those cases, it's not clear who the money belongs to, so the affidavit or newspaper ad route would apply. But money in or around a bank machine? It belongs to someone traceable. Most importantly, it doesn't belong to you. Finders keepers applies only to primary school playground stuff and countries with standing armies to enforce it. Reasonable effort to find its owner needs to be made before it reverts to the finder.
(in jest, not alleging in any way this is anything the OP did: you should probably take that $200 back to the bank, we're on to you ☺)
posted by scruss at 3:02 AM on April 30, 2020 [1 favorite]
I'm wondering just what the process of returning the found money would be, if the event happened after the bank closed. I suppose you could phone them the next business day and tell them to withdraw it from your account (if you have an account at that bank). Even that seems like kind of an imposition. If it happened to me while traveling, I doubt that I'd make any attempt to return the cash.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 4:46 AM on April 30, 2020
posted by Kirth Gerson at 4:46 AM on April 30, 2020
Or, just don't pick up things that aren't yours in the first place. That IS an option.
posted by humboldt32 at 9:28 AM on April 30, 2020
posted by humboldt32 at 9:28 AM on April 30, 2020
Well, if the ATM dispenses more money than I expect, are you advocating just leaving the money on the ground? How do I put it back in, if the bank is closed?
posted by Kirth Gerson at 1:00 PM on April 30, 2020
posted by Kirth Gerson at 1:00 PM on April 30, 2020
Well, if the ATM dispenses more money than I expect, are you advocating just leaving the money on the ground? How do I put it back in, if the bank is closed?
If it’s an actual bank there is usually a night deposit box.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 2:34 PM on April 30, 2020
If it’s an actual bank there is usually a night deposit box.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 2:34 PM on April 30, 2020
Yes, that's what I'm advocating. It's not your money and it's not your problem. I'm simply saying it's an option. It's what I would do, but I'm a stickler for not stealing. If I see a frisbee lying forgotten in a park, I leave that there too.
posted by humboldt32 at 12:43 PM on May 1, 2020
posted by humboldt32 at 12:43 PM on May 1, 2020
This thread is closed to new comments.
Exact laws may be different from place to place, but in general it is considered theft to take “mislaid property,” whether it’s a lost wallet or a stack of bills. For example, in Oregon: 2. Are there instances of banks really tracking down the person who took the cash?
Yes.
I can't imagine the several hundred dollars left from a deposit or withdrawal would be worth it and the bank would count it as a "loss" if anything, rather then call the police on a customer.
I'm not sure why. Filing a police report is not that much effort. If the money was mislaid by another bank customer, that customer would reasonably expect the bank to help them report the theft. The bank also has an interest in deterring future theft. Just letting a thief go without any consequence would encourage other people to steal. Stores are happy to call the cops for people shoplifting items that are much less valuable than a stack of twenties.
posted by mbrubeck at 7:44 PM on April 29, 2020 [5 favorites]