How to not obsess over coworker dynamic?
April 15, 2020 9:25 PM Subscribe
I really struggle with coworkers deviating from my idea of the values governing coworker behavior. I don't expect to be friends with everyone but I do expect people to not be rude, and to not treat people hugely differently unless there is bad blood or something. I have a complicated political situation and I need to get some support.
Coworker is very, very strategic. Identified the peer with the most informal power and went to town building an alliance. I had been building rapport also prior to their arrival, but I am no match for that level of strategy and fakeness. Said peer sees this person as a good friend already. This person has basically ignored my existence. We do need to collaborate on things. The culture is very "let's have social gatherings outside of work" which obviously won't happen right now but everyone is basically friendly. Except this person barely ever communicates with me beyond what is absolutely necessary for the job. They aren't doing anything "wrong" but it's also rude to not answer communication. Today I sent them communication with a request to modify a process and they answered me basically cc-ing everyone else and saying no they won't do anything I am requesting. I have tried to build some kind of working alliance with this person but they are clearly uninterested. How do I not let this bother me? It's very hard being literally the only person in the department that they ignore. It triggers all kinds of baggage for me. I was bullied as a kid and have an anxious attachment style and the combination makes this kind of ignoring really hard on me. I would love to not care. I would love to not personalize this. I would love to be able to be more "strategic" myself, here. That's not my style at all, but I think this person is politically threatening and I need help understanding how to neutralize them as well as not be bothered by this. It seems that my only means of neutralizing them is to out-ally the person with the informal power but I am not able to compete on my coworker's level in this area, and I will just get obsessed over it and sabotage myself somehow. I'd rather perform well for the person that signs my reviews but the politically powerful peer also has tons and tons of influence and I would appreciate being able to befriend that person since I just moved here and the culture lends itself to making friends at work.
I'm just feeling unsure how to navigate this because I am really bad at politics and would rather everyone just be safe, be nice, be courteous and respectful. For the most part I have been spoiled and been able to experience exactly that at work. I don't know how to handle this.
Coworker is very, very strategic. Identified the peer with the most informal power and went to town building an alliance. I had been building rapport also prior to their arrival, but I am no match for that level of strategy and fakeness. Said peer sees this person as a good friend already. This person has basically ignored my existence. We do need to collaborate on things. The culture is very "let's have social gatherings outside of work" which obviously won't happen right now but everyone is basically friendly. Except this person barely ever communicates with me beyond what is absolutely necessary for the job. They aren't doing anything "wrong" but it's also rude to not answer communication. Today I sent them communication with a request to modify a process and they answered me basically cc-ing everyone else and saying no they won't do anything I am requesting. I have tried to build some kind of working alliance with this person but they are clearly uninterested. How do I not let this bother me? It's very hard being literally the only person in the department that they ignore. It triggers all kinds of baggage for me. I was bullied as a kid and have an anxious attachment style and the combination makes this kind of ignoring really hard on me. I would love to not care. I would love to not personalize this. I would love to be able to be more "strategic" myself, here. That's not my style at all, but I think this person is politically threatening and I need help understanding how to neutralize them as well as not be bothered by this. It seems that my only means of neutralizing them is to out-ally the person with the informal power but I am not able to compete on my coworker's level in this area, and I will just get obsessed over it and sabotage myself somehow. I'd rather perform well for the person that signs my reviews but the politically powerful peer also has tons and tons of influence and I would appreciate being able to befriend that person since I just moved here and the culture lends itself to making friends at work.
I'm just feeling unsure how to navigate this because I am really bad at politics and would rather everyone just be safe, be nice, be courteous and respectful. For the most part I have been spoiled and been able to experience exactly that at work. I don't know how to handle this.
You'll care less when you have your own solid support base and don't feel so vulnerable, so that might be a good place to start. You are probably spot on that a lot is going on that you don't quite get, that you are vulnerable, and that this person is specifically reacting to you. So the goal is to get into a position where their reactions can't harm you, emotionally and professionally. Part of that is probably building a separate support base and setting up your own narrative in the department. Part of that is probably getting therapy / whatever you need to feel less anxious and fixate less on this. Part of that is probably, after you have started working on the other steps, working out how to repair your relationship with them.
Reading your post, I wonder how other people would see this story. There are big gaps here. You're implying a lot but not providing many details or concrete examples. I'm sure that you're reporting things as you feel they are, but would someone else feel the same way about these events? If they might see things differently, what can you change about your behavior to push the narrative in a different direction?
For example, would your boss say that your refused request was reasonable? CC'ing everyone like that sounds an awful lot like they don't think your request is reasonable and are creating a paper trail they can point to. So, maybe it's time to ask your boss in a lowkey informal way if they really were the right person to make that request of, or if there was some step you accidentally missed, etc.
Have you been able to participate in the culture of making friends at work aside from these specific people? How are coworkers navigating current restrictions, and can you do that?
posted by Ahniya at 10:04 PM on April 15, 2020 [19 favorites]
Reading your post, I wonder how other people would see this story. There are big gaps here. You're implying a lot but not providing many details or concrete examples. I'm sure that you're reporting things as you feel they are, but would someone else feel the same way about these events? If they might see things differently, what can you change about your behavior to push the narrative in a different direction?
For example, would your boss say that your refused request was reasonable? CC'ing everyone like that sounds an awful lot like they don't think your request is reasonable and are creating a paper trail they can point to. So, maybe it's time to ask your boss in a lowkey informal way if they really were the right person to make that request of, or if there was some step you accidentally missed, etc.
Have you been able to participate in the culture of making friends at work aside from these specific people? How are coworkers navigating current restrictions, and can you do that?
posted by Ahniya at 10:04 PM on April 15, 2020 [19 favorites]
I agree with Ahniya about needing to know more details. From your description, I'm not sure if the person is (a) ambitious or (b) a bully.
If they are merely ambitious and you are not in direct competition with them, you can build up a relationship with them by helping them out and/or doing things that make them look good. You could even talk with them one on one and ask if there are ways to collaborate, and suggest some of your own.
If they are a bully, and actually wish you personal harm, then in my personal experience, as a fellow non-politically-adept person, there is really no way to win and you should instead focus on building up your skills and resume in order to get a new job. A while ago I had a job where there were several toxic bullies, and I regret the amount of time I spent trying to "figure out how to work with them" when I should have focused on getting the hell out of there. Good luck!
posted by rogerroger at 10:20 PM on April 15, 2020 [10 favorites]
If they are merely ambitious and you are not in direct competition with them, you can build up a relationship with them by helping them out and/or doing things that make them look good. You could even talk with them one on one and ask if there are ways to collaborate, and suggest some of your own.
If they are a bully, and actually wish you personal harm, then in my personal experience, as a fellow non-politically-adept person, there is really no way to win and you should instead focus on building up your skills and resume in order to get a new job. A while ago I had a job where there were several toxic bullies, and I regret the amount of time I spent trying to "figure out how to work with them" when I should have focused on getting the hell out of there. Good luck!
posted by rogerroger at 10:20 PM on April 15, 2020 [10 favorites]
The person who turns it into a competition always loses. It might not be until the long run, but the competition always turns against the person at some point.
If you become more strategic in your actions, you are DEFINITELY turning it into a competition. Your coworker might have already started it -- but you're not in their head, and you don't know for sure what they're thinking. It's possible they aren't being competitive, just boorish or clueless or maybe their own form of anxious that conflicts with your variety. You might know their motives, but you definitely know yours. And the person who turns it into a competition loses. (especially since you won't be as good at it as they might be, if your suspicions are true.)
Instead, can you lean into actions that go the opposite direction from your anxiety? Not denying or ignoring your anxiety; it sounds like you've got great insight on your feelings and where they come from, and ignoring them will just make you feel worse. But not letting your feelings drive your actions. Could there be an alternate explanation for their actions? Maybe you remind them of someone in their life that intimidated them, and the feeling is transferring to you. Maybe they're deeply insecure about their position since they're new so they're trying to really wow the bosses, especially now that a recession is looming. Maybe something hard is happening in their life and they only have so much social energy, so they're allocating it where it makes the most impact. Maybe they're not very socially skilled and don't even realize they're slighting you. Can you find some reason, even if it's a totally made-up story, to offer this person compassion?
They might not deserve it. But if they mistreat someone who's been nothing but sweet to them, they will have horribly miscalculated and they'll lose the competition. And you can sleep at night knowing that you acted rightly and from a good place, even as your anxiety tried to hijack your brain.
posted by lilac girl at 11:04 PM on April 15, 2020 [8 favorites]
If you become more strategic in your actions, you are DEFINITELY turning it into a competition. Your coworker might have already started it -- but you're not in their head, and you don't know for sure what they're thinking. It's possible they aren't being competitive, just boorish or clueless or maybe their own form of anxious that conflicts with your variety. You might know their motives, but you definitely know yours. And the person who turns it into a competition loses. (especially since you won't be as good at it as they might be, if your suspicions are true.)
Instead, can you lean into actions that go the opposite direction from your anxiety? Not denying or ignoring your anxiety; it sounds like you've got great insight on your feelings and where they come from, and ignoring them will just make you feel worse. But not letting your feelings drive your actions. Could there be an alternate explanation for their actions? Maybe you remind them of someone in their life that intimidated them, and the feeling is transferring to you. Maybe they're deeply insecure about their position since they're new so they're trying to really wow the bosses, especially now that a recession is looming. Maybe something hard is happening in their life and they only have so much social energy, so they're allocating it where it makes the most impact. Maybe they're not very socially skilled and don't even realize they're slighting you. Can you find some reason, even if it's a totally made-up story, to offer this person compassion?
They might not deserve it. But if they mistreat someone who's been nothing but sweet to them, they will have horribly miscalculated and they'll lose the competition. And you can sleep at night knowing that you acted rightly and from a good place, even as your anxiety tried to hijack your brain.
posted by lilac girl at 11:04 PM on April 15, 2020 [8 favorites]
Also, maybe, OP's behavior has been atypical for this workplace for some reason. Anxiety, lack of training, or what have you. Leaning into being the best worker who is genuinely kind and non-judgemental is still the right response, because then other people recognize that whatever mistake was made was just an aberration brought on by extraordinary circumstances, and OP can feel confident they handled this situation in the best way they could. It's a win/win strategy.
posted by Ahniya at 12:58 AM on April 16, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by Ahniya at 12:58 AM on April 16, 2020 [1 favorite]
If you don’t want to obsess about your dynamic with these coworkers, I would gently suggest that not writing multiple AskMeFi questions about it would be a good way to start.
Most of what you’re talking is *your* attribution of motive/meaning to *other people’s* behavior. This is something that humans in general are very bad at, those of us who struggle with anxiety maybe even more so. It is generally better to just recognize and accept that these people are independent beings with their own thoughts, plans, and desires that are entirely outside of your knowledge.
You probably can’t win by being more political. You might be able to succeed by doing good work and building authentic relationships (and in a workplace a relationship can be authentic and very surface level at the same time, IMO). If that doesn’t work, or if you’re not able to do good work/build relationships, this workplace is probably a bad fit for you, and that’s OK too (I mean obviously having to work someplace that’s a bad fit and/or find another job sucks, but it’s no reflection on your worth or abilities).
I know it’s hard, but I think you need to dial your focus on these people waaaay back. If I knew that a coworker was thinking about me this way I would feel very wary of them. Use therapy and or/medication to help you do make the change if they’re available to you and necessary
posted by mskyle at 4:18 AM on April 16, 2020 [22 favorites]
Most of what you’re talking is *your* attribution of motive/meaning to *other people’s* behavior. This is something that humans in general are very bad at, those of us who struggle with anxiety maybe even more so. It is generally better to just recognize and accept that these people are independent beings with their own thoughts, plans, and desires that are entirely outside of your knowledge.
You probably can’t win by being more political. You might be able to succeed by doing good work and building authentic relationships (and in a workplace a relationship can be authentic and very surface level at the same time, IMO). If that doesn’t work, or if you’re not able to do good work/build relationships, this workplace is probably a bad fit for you, and that’s OK too (I mean obviously having to work someplace that’s a bad fit and/or find another job sucks, but it’s no reflection on your worth or abilities).
I know it’s hard, but I think you need to dial your focus on these people waaaay back. If I knew that a coworker was thinking about me this way I would feel very wary of them. Use therapy and or/medication to help you do make the change if they’re available to you and necessary
posted by mskyle at 4:18 AM on April 16, 2020 [22 favorites]
I have experienced this. In personal interactions it's called the "cut direct" and it is a very effective passive-aggressive way to get what you want. Historically it was in personal lives where people were stuck with whoever was in their family or town; now we can change friends but it's at work where we are stuck with people we don't necessarily like or respect.
In both cases, the rudeness is a competitive response to limited resources - good projects, opportunities for advancement, the boss's approval, the spotlight in the office social circle, job security - whether they're real or imagined.
You and the new rude person are responding to the same limited resources. You said they "Identified the peer with the most informal power and went to town building an alliance" - but you also said that you had been trying to do the same thing before they arrived, without success.
So it is not that this person is a terrible scheming manipulator, but that you both recognize something in this workplace that requires you to compete and forge alliances with "in" people. You were doing ok before they got there, because nobody else was competing with you. But the new person feels the need to compete with you and their approach is simply more effective than yours.
So I would ask you to consider whether there really is only room for one person to "win" here? If you are a person who lives with a scarcity mindset, you live in a world of real/perceived limits and you'll be hypersensitive to anyone else around you who acts on the same impulses. A person with an abundance mindset might not even notice a new person trying to freeze them out; it just wouldn't work - they're not motivated by the approval of others and they don't feel the need to defend their turf. It works on you because you agree that there's only room for one of you - and that your success depends on the acceptance/approval of other people.
The new rude person may have a scarcity mindset too, but their response is to go on the offensive rather than the defensive to stay safe. Or this person might just be really, really good at soft skills, and since you aren't, you see malicious intent that might not be there.
Either way, figuring out the other person isn't your job. Your job is to figure out why you felt the need to compete even before this person arrived, and why you see a new person reading the room and promoting their own self-interest as a competitor to fear. If there's a built-in problem at your workplace, then moving on might be a better option than trying to compete with a stronger competitor. But you'd be taking your mindset with you to the next job.
I don't know how to change a scarcity mindset. It is how I live, and in more practical situations it is how I have succeeded or endured. But it is not a productive or healthy approach to interpersonal situations. There are lots of resources available that address it. Maybe something there will resonate and help you.
posted by headnsouth at 4:23 AM on April 16, 2020 [12 favorites]
In both cases, the rudeness is a competitive response to limited resources - good projects, opportunities for advancement, the boss's approval, the spotlight in the office social circle, job security - whether they're real or imagined.
You and the new rude person are responding to the same limited resources. You said they "Identified the peer with the most informal power and went to town building an alliance" - but you also said that you had been trying to do the same thing before they arrived, without success.
So it is not that this person is a terrible scheming manipulator, but that you both recognize something in this workplace that requires you to compete and forge alliances with "in" people. You were doing ok before they got there, because nobody else was competing with you. But the new person feels the need to compete with you and their approach is simply more effective than yours.
So I would ask you to consider whether there really is only room for one person to "win" here? If you are a person who lives with a scarcity mindset, you live in a world of real/perceived limits and you'll be hypersensitive to anyone else around you who acts on the same impulses. A person with an abundance mindset might not even notice a new person trying to freeze them out; it just wouldn't work - they're not motivated by the approval of others and they don't feel the need to defend their turf. It works on you because you agree that there's only room for one of you - and that your success depends on the acceptance/approval of other people.
The new rude person may have a scarcity mindset too, but their response is to go on the offensive rather than the defensive to stay safe. Or this person might just be really, really good at soft skills, and since you aren't, you see malicious intent that might not be there.
Either way, figuring out the other person isn't your job. Your job is to figure out why you felt the need to compete even before this person arrived, and why you see a new person reading the room and promoting their own self-interest as a competitor to fear. If there's a built-in problem at your workplace, then moving on might be a better option than trying to compete with a stronger competitor. But you'd be taking your mindset with you to the next job.
I don't know how to change a scarcity mindset. It is how I live, and in more practical situations it is how I have succeeded or endured. But it is not a productive or healthy approach to interpersonal situations. There are lots of resources available that address it. Maybe something there will resonate and help you.
posted by headnsouth at 4:23 AM on April 16, 2020 [12 favorites]
Response by poster: One quick clarification regarding something headnsouth said. When I arrived in the position I was trying to make friends with everyone in the department because I came from a place where my main friends were made at work, and everyone seemed friendly and open to that here also. I wasn't trying to build allies for political reasons just make friends. It's feeling this other person being so strategic while also not attempting to make any sort of basic friendship with me that has made me feel a certain way. They are turning it into some kind of political environment while not even practicing basic courtesy to be inclusive, and I'm out of my depth with that and also confused since our field of study does not generally work that way - at all. I was hoping to just have friends, some of whom I could also rely on to help me learn the landscape. Sure, friends watch your back in political situations but my initial goals weren't focused that way. In my last workplace everyone was allied against toxic behaviors in management. There weren't warring factions or strategic maneuvering or if there was maneuvering those people didn't shut anyone else out in the process. I just don't know how to process it without getting in a weird emotional place.
Thank you for all the insight so far. Please keep it coming.
posted by crunchy potato at 5:25 AM on April 16, 2020
Thank you for all the insight so far. Please keep it coming.
posted by crunchy potato at 5:25 AM on April 16, 2020
I would love to not care. I would love to not personalize this. I would love to be able to be more "strategic" myself, here. That's not my style at all, but I think this person is politically threatening and I need help understanding how to neutralize them as well as not be bothered by this.
You can only control your own behaviour. You cannot "neutralize" another co-worker , especially when 1) you are not in a position of authority and 2) you admit you are inept at corporate politics.
It doesn't sound like you're coming from a place of huge career ambition, which would have made my advice different. Instead, you sound like just want to become comfortable with yourself and your position at work. To that end, you need to focus way more on your own work and your own state of mind. It might be worth considering some short term therapy. This is the second question you've had about this person and the fixation isn't helping you at all, especially when you admit you do not have the skills (or even necessarily the desire!) to play them at their own game.
I'd rather perform well for the person that signs my reviews
This is the most important and right thing to do to help yourself. The last thing you want is to get distracted by someone else in some other department where you second guess your own work and start dropping the ball.
but the politically powerful peer also has tons and tons of influence and I would appreciate being able to befriend that person since I just moved here and the culture lends itself to making friends at work.
Honestly, this isn't high school where befriending the most popular girl in school is going to get you at the cool table. Focus on making your own connections through your own work and competence. Your own work will speak for you, why are you relying on befriending someone you don't even trust?
In my opinion, from your description I don't see how this person is "politically threatening" to you. They sound like they just have a different idea of how friendly they want to be with you as a colleague. This is something you have to learn to deal with and it will serve you well to be flexible in your expectations and approach with different kinds of colleagues. Just stay impeccably professional. That's literally all you can do. By all means, document your interactions so at the first sign of them throwing you under the bus you can call foul to your manager, but in the meantime, I don't think there's much you can do to change this person and more importantly, I don't see why you should when there seems to be little chance of success and little benefit.
There is nothing wrong with steering clear of corporate politics. I myself hate corporate politics. I never get involved. And I personally don't think my career has suffered one bit for it. I plug away and do my work and build my capital as a trustworthy and straightforward employee and colleague. Focus on the long game.
posted by like_neon at 5:51 AM on April 16, 2020 [16 favorites]
You can only control your own behaviour. You cannot "neutralize" another co-worker , especially when 1) you are not in a position of authority and 2) you admit you are inept at corporate politics.
It doesn't sound like you're coming from a place of huge career ambition, which would have made my advice different. Instead, you sound like just want to become comfortable with yourself and your position at work. To that end, you need to focus way more on your own work and your own state of mind. It might be worth considering some short term therapy. This is the second question you've had about this person and the fixation isn't helping you at all, especially when you admit you do not have the skills (or even necessarily the desire!) to play them at their own game.
I'd rather perform well for the person that signs my reviews
This is the most important and right thing to do to help yourself. The last thing you want is to get distracted by someone else in some other department where you second guess your own work and start dropping the ball.
but the politically powerful peer also has tons and tons of influence and I would appreciate being able to befriend that person since I just moved here and the culture lends itself to making friends at work.
Honestly, this isn't high school where befriending the most popular girl in school is going to get you at the cool table. Focus on making your own connections through your own work and competence. Your own work will speak for you, why are you relying on befriending someone you don't even trust?
In my opinion, from your description I don't see how this person is "politically threatening" to you. They sound like they just have a different idea of how friendly they want to be with you as a colleague. This is something you have to learn to deal with and it will serve you well to be flexible in your expectations and approach with different kinds of colleagues. Just stay impeccably professional. That's literally all you can do. By all means, document your interactions so at the first sign of them throwing you under the bus you can call foul to your manager, but in the meantime, I don't think there's much you can do to change this person and more importantly, I don't see why you should when there seems to be little chance of success and little benefit.
There is nothing wrong with steering clear of corporate politics. I myself hate corporate politics. I never get involved. And I personally don't think my career has suffered one bit for it. I plug away and do my work and build my capital as a trustworthy and straightforward employee and colleague. Focus on the long game.
posted by like_neon at 5:51 AM on April 16, 2020 [16 favorites]
Best answer: As others have noted, without a lot more detail and maybe another perspective, there's just really no way for us to say what's going on here - maybe you're reading things into the situation that aren't there, maybe the other person is a strategic mastermind who hates you for some reason, who knows?
The good news is that regardless of what the explanation is, your best response is the same: keep your head down, do your own work well, be civil and communicate with this person exactly to the extent needed, develop your own working relationships with your other peers, and try not to dwell on what the other person is doing or not doing. If there is some sort of rivalry brewing, don't give it fuel by trying to get into a political intrigue that you don't like and aren't good at anyway. Just do your own job well and build your own relationships.
For something that's an actual work issue with getting your own things done, like the sudden escalation of your request into a cc-everyone frenzy, it might be worth bringing it up with your own supervisor at your next check-in meeting just as a "hey, that escalated weirdly in a way I wasn't expecting, and I'm wondering if there's some context I should know or some other way you'd prefer I handle requests like that in future."
If it helps at all to imagine it from a different perspective, I can almost imagine this question coming from a particular person I work with. I have significantly better working relationships with other people in the office than I do with this particular person. It's not that I dislike them, or am in any way trying to take away from their own ability to form their own relationships! It's just that our personal styles of interacting with coworkers are so different that it's sometimes hard to know how to interact - this person wants to be so much more personal-friendly than I do. It feels like if I try to meet them halfway, they jump allll the way into wanting to be Close! Personal! Buddies! and so I end up sort of policing my personal interaction boundaries with them more firmly/frequently than I do with other people at the office because they push harder on them and I don't ever feel I can relax and just have a polite chat without it suddenly becoming a whole lot more personal than I want to get at work because I do keep a pretty tight lid on personal stuff at work. Or even on the non-personal front, there are certain processes that I much prefer to handle by email and that all previous people in this job have handled by email, but this person always just shows up at my desk and wants to talk about it on the spot, when I've had no time to consider it, and so sometimes my response is probably not as thorough or helpful as I want it to be. Another person in a similar role will set up a time to talk, or email me about the thing, and that works much better for me so our interactions tend to go better. The person I don't work as well with isn't doing anything wrong! And the work gets done! But our personalities and work styles just don't click as well. It is what it is, we get our work done and I don't lose sleep over it, but I'd be horrified to know the other person was really upset over it vs. likewise chalking it up to a "not everyone in the office is going to click as well personally" and moving on with their day.
posted by Stacey at 6:30 AM on April 16, 2020 [6 favorites]
The good news is that regardless of what the explanation is, your best response is the same: keep your head down, do your own work well, be civil and communicate with this person exactly to the extent needed, develop your own working relationships with your other peers, and try not to dwell on what the other person is doing or not doing. If there is some sort of rivalry brewing, don't give it fuel by trying to get into a political intrigue that you don't like and aren't good at anyway. Just do your own job well and build your own relationships.
For something that's an actual work issue with getting your own things done, like the sudden escalation of your request into a cc-everyone frenzy, it might be worth bringing it up with your own supervisor at your next check-in meeting just as a "hey, that escalated weirdly in a way I wasn't expecting, and I'm wondering if there's some context I should know or some other way you'd prefer I handle requests like that in future."
If it helps at all to imagine it from a different perspective, I can almost imagine this question coming from a particular person I work with. I have significantly better working relationships with other people in the office than I do with this particular person. It's not that I dislike them, or am in any way trying to take away from their own ability to form their own relationships! It's just that our personal styles of interacting with coworkers are so different that it's sometimes hard to know how to interact - this person wants to be so much more personal-friendly than I do. It feels like if I try to meet them halfway, they jump allll the way into wanting to be Close! Personal! Buddies! and so I end up sort of policing my personal interaction boundaries with them more firmly/frequently than I do with other people at the office because they push harder on them and I don't ever feel I can relax and just have a polite chat without it suddenly becoming a whole lot more personal than I want to get at work because I do keep a pretty tight lid on personal stuff at work. Or even on the non-personal front, there are certain processes that I much prefer to handle by email and that all previous people in this job have handled by email, but this person always just shows up at my desk and wants to talk about it on the spot, when I've had no time to consider it, and so sometimes my response is probably not as thorough or helpful as I want it to be. Another person in a similar role will set up a time to talk, or email me about the thing, and that works much better for me so our interactions tend to go better. The person I don't work as well with isn't doing anything wrong! And the work gets done! But our personalities and work styles just don't click as well. It is what it is, we get our work done and I don't lose sleep over it, but I'd be horrified to know the other person was really upset over it vs. likewise chalking it up to a "not everyone in the office is going to click as well personally" and moving on with their day.
posted by Stacey at 6:30 AM on April 16, 2020 [6 favorites]
Best answer: I see a real paradox in this question, and it's a repeat of your previous question (which is fine, I just see you're still struggling with this issue). So your paradox is that you are writing as if you have perfect knowledge of how this person acts with other people (even online since we're all remote?) and how they think of everyone, but you don't have perfect knowledge how to act "very strategic". You write it as if you know the first part... but you don't.
Gently, this is in your head. I get it, I'm very anxious too. We build entire worlds out of someone not responding to a thing or simply answering "Okay." Usually okay means okay, but to us, anxious people, it can mean everything from "Wow, I failed something." to "Wow, they hate my guts.", etc.
This is in your head. But I just want you to answer one question and if you can answer it affirmatively, I'll concede it is not in your head... how do you know (KNOW know) that they are only acting this way with you? How do you know they respond affirmatively to others always and right away? Like really dig in and write down your evidence.
Anxiety does a really clever thing. It builds one thing into a crisis to have that as a fixation point. It tells you that you KNOW every negative thing perfectly, but that you don't know any positive thing ever. Even if someone said "Great job!" you'd wonder if they were lying/it was a fluke. If you don't handle the anxiety, you will always have a new problem that isn't really about the problem at hand. Most everyone is a work in progress on this, we're never fully done and that's okay.
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 7:24 AM on April 16, 2020 [15 favorites]
Gently, this is in your head. I get it, I'm very anxious too. We build entire worlds out of someone not responding to a thing or simply answering "Okay." Usually okay means okay, but to us, anxious people, it can mean everything from "Wow, I failed something." to "Wow, they hate my guts.", etc.
This is in your head. But I just want you to answer one question and if you can answer it affirmatively, I'll concede it is not in your head... how do you know (KNOW know) that they are only acting this way with you? How do you know they respond affirmatively to others always and right away? Like really dig in and write down your evidence.
Anxiety does a really clever thing. It builds one thing into a crisis to have that as a fixation point. It tells you that you KNOW every negative thing perfectly, but that you don't know any positive thing ever. Even if someone said "Great job!" you'd wonder if they were lying/it was a fluke. If you don't handle the anxiety, you will always have a new problem that isn't really about the problem at hand. Most everyone is a work in progress on this, we're never fully done and that's okay.
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 7:24 AM on April 16, 2020 [15 favorites]
Best answer: I know someone kind of like this. The best approach I've found is to be as polite and cordial as I can bring myself to be, try to find moments of connection on their terms (because seeking it out when they don't feel like it doesn't work and just leads to their patronizing me with unasked-for advice or offers of "help" I don't want), realize that I don't actually want to connect with them otherwise and that's OK, keep a wary eye out as they network and make workplace connections, never trust them to have my or my peers' best interests in mind, and keep an informal mental or home log of disingenuous things they do in case it ever comes up or someone influential notices the pattern.
Something I've learned is that if you're seeing behavior you don't like in someone like this, there's almost certainly someone else who doesn't like it either. You're not going to be the only one. Your job here, whether they ultimately become allied with everyone in the company and rise to the top or they shoot themselves in the foot by being overly aggressive, is to come out looking like the total professional who doesn't let personal feelings about colleagues affect your work. They might well be in your world for a long time or end up running something, so you've got to find a way to disengage from those threatening feelings and be more detached about their presence and influence. But if anyone influential ever asks, you know how you feel and you will have a few notes on things you've noticed.
I can see why they feel like a threat, if you have to work with them all the time and they're playing nice with seemingly everyone but you. I've seen this lead to very bad things, so it's good to be aware of it and keep an eye on things. But you have to be subtle and careful in how you respond to what you're seeing. It might turn out to be nothing, and maybe they're just learning how to act in this environment. It might turn out to be the thing that leads to their taking over something you care about deeply and ostracizing you from it. I think it's too soon to know that yet, but it's definitely a good time to strengthen your alliances and relationships across the company, as well as in your department, and use your expertise and existing knowledge to your advantage.
And of course keep in mind, as headnsouth talked about earlier, that this is just my perspective from having been in situations I thought were friendly and informal that ended up turning toxic. My PTSD from those situations specifically colors how I see this. So absolutely consider that perspective behind what I'm saying, too. One of the best things you can do for yourself right now is to do your best to cultivate empathy and understanding for the other person, even if it feels like that's devoting mental space and effort to understanding someone who might become your enemy. Treat it like an interview or a mental exercise, whatever it takes to hold it all at arm's length. Learn as much as you can about the other person. At best, it might help you relate to them better. At worst, it might help you see something coming before it hits you.
posted by limeonaire at 7:27 AM on April 16, 2020 [3 favorites]
Something I've learned is that if you're seeing behavior you don't like in someone like this, there's almost certainly someone else who doesn't like it either. You're not going to be the only one. Your job here, whether they ultimately become allied with everyone in the company and rise to the top or they shoot themselves in the foot by being overly aggressive, is to come out looking like the total professional who doesn't let personal feelings about colleagues affect your work. They might well be in your world for a long time or end up running something, so you've got to find a way to disengage from those threatening feelings and be more detached about their presence and influence. But if anyone influential ever asks, you know how you feel and you will have a few notes on things you've noticed.
I can see why they feel like a threat, if you have to work with them all the time and they're playing nice with seemingly everyone but you. I've seen this lead to very bad things, so it's good to be aware of it and keep an eye on things. But you have to be subtle and careful in how you respond to what you're seeing. It might turn out to be nothing, and maybe they're just learning how to act in this environment. It might turn out to be the thing that leads to their taking over something you care about deeply and ostracizing you from it. I think it's too soon to know that yet, but it's definitely a good time to strengthen your alliances and relationships across the company, as well as in your department, and use your expertise and existing knowledge to your advantage.
And of course keep in mind, as headnsouth talked about earlier, that this is just my perspective from having been in situations I thought were friendly and informal that ended up turning toxic. My PTSD from those situations specifically colors how I see this. So absolutely consider that perspective behind what I'm saying, too. One of the best things you can do for yourself right now is to do your best to cultivate empathy and understanding for the other person, even if it feels like that's devoting mental space and effort to understanding someone who might become your enemy. Treat it like an interview or a mental exercise, whatever it takes to hold it all at arm's length. Learn as much as you can about the other person. At best, it might help you relate to them better. At worst, it might help you see something coming before it hits you.
posted by limeonaire at 7:27 AM on April 16, 2020 [3 favorites]
I just wanted to gently underscore a point that others have made, which is that it's really hard for us (or probably you) to tell how much of this is anxiety speaking and how much isn't.
My baggage here is coming from an experience I had recently where I interacted with somebody who had significant anxiety about me and my behaviour, and they ended up inferring all sorts of things about my motivations and actions that had very little basis in reality. I could tell they were anxious and tried to bend over backwards to try to give them what I thought they needed (to the extent of disregarding my own needs too much), but they ended up reading even those actions in a totally different way than what I had intended. It was deeply painful to be on the receiving end of that: to be viewed with fear no matter what I did, and for them to lose sight of who I was as a person and see me just as the cardboard cutout they'd created in their head. It wasn't their fault, and I'm doing better now, but it still sucked.
Like I said, I have no idea if anything like this is going on in your situation, but the multiple questions about this topic and the vagueness of all of them makes me fear it might be. I don't have any sense you're seeing them as a real person or have any idea what their true motives are. Which is not to say you're a bad person or even necessarily wrong! Just that, I think the way for you to deal with this is to really realise that you don't know any of these things about them for sure.
All you can do is concentrate on yourself and your behaviour; the more you obsess about them the more things will get worse. I fully realise how hard this is but I see no way this ends well if you can't change your focus to you and the things you can actually affect, and stop worrying about them at all. That's true even if they are as strategic and conniving as you think they are. Even then, the best way to win is to hold your head high and sail through and not play their game.
posted by forza at 3:44 PM on April 16, 2020 [7 favorites]
My baggage here is coming from an experience I had recently where I interacted with somebody who had significant anxiety about me and my behaviour, and they ended up inferring all sorts of things about my motivations and actions that had very little basis in reality. I could tell they were anxious and tried to bend over backwards to try to give them what I thought they needed (to the extent of disregarding my own needs too much), but they ended up reading even those actions in a totally different way than what I had intended. It was deeply painful to be on the receiving end of that: to be viewed with fear no matter what I did, and for them to lose sight of who I was as a person and see me just as the cardboard cutout they'd created in their head. It wasn't their fault, and I'm doing better now, but it still sucked.
Like I said, I have no idea if anything like this is going on in your situation, but the multiple questions about this topic and the vagueness of all of them makes me fear it might be. I don't have any sense you're seeing them as a real person or have any idea what their true motives are. Which is not to say you're a bad person or even necessarily wrong! Just that, I think the way for you to deal with this is to really realise that you don't know any of these things about them for sure.
All you can do is concentrate on yourself and your behaviour; the more you obsess about them the more things will get worse. I fully realise how hard this is but I see no way this ends well if you can't change your focus to you and the things you can actually affect, and stop worrying about them at all. That's true even if they are as strategic and conniving as you think they are. Even then, the best way to win is to hold your head high and sail through and not play their game.
posted by forza at 3:44 PM on April 16, 2020 [7 favorites]
Beat this yucky climbery, fake, strategizer person at their own game by learning how to deliver a work request effectively. You won't go far at this job or any other until you learn what motivates the other people at work to complete tasks for you.
Once you get good at the "asks," find a baddass mentor who rocks similar values to yours.
Good luck. You sound awesome!
Be proud of yourself for having great values.
posted by abuckamoon at 4:14 AM on April 17, 2020 [2 favorites]
Once you get good at the "asks," find a baddass mentor who rocks similar values to yours.
Good luck. You sound awesome!
Be proud of yourself for having great values.
posted by abuckamoon at 4:14 AM on April 17, 2020 [2 favorites]
Best answer: Regarding the email response you received: I'm wondering if maybe it was not your place to have asked them to do something? Adding others to an email train can be a nasty move, but not always; maybe they included others on the email to reinforce that they were not taking direction from you. I can see many situations where someone who I don't work for might ask me to do something and I'd have to push back. As a new employee, you are bound to make some mistakes, so maybe it was just the wrong thing for you to do?
One piece of valuable work place advice I follow as much as possible is "assume innocence". It makes life much simpler. So, I'd say keep your focus on your job and ignore anything not related to it. For the person with the "informal" power, cultivate a good record of being responsive and helpful as makes sense, and as you would do for any colleague.
People are calling this person a bully and a fake, which may be the case, but may not be.
For what it is worth, I recently had a very difficult colleague who was a bully and a fake. At different times, I found different things helpful:
-I knew my work spoke for itself and reminded myself of this often.
-I did not complain about this employee to other employees. There were occasional issues that were unequivocally problematic, and I let my supervisor know as an FYI saying I was find managing things but wanted to make them aware.
--I occasionally wrote it out along the lines of the letter you never send. This was helpful for processing the feelings and getting them out of my head.
--I was able to get some clear lines between our roles, so we could stay out of each others' lanes.
--After a period of time, the predictability of it all made it a bit of a joke. I would send an email asking a question knowing I would not get a response, and just not sweat it.
--I knew this person was pretty damaged, so I tried to keep this point of view, understanding much of what they did and said was about their own brokenness and had nothing to do with me. I'd say the phrase, "The poor thing" whenever I'd think of this person.
--I limited the amount of time I would complain or stress over the situation, out side of work in particular. When I found myself ruminating over the latest issue, I'd force myself to physically move, start a new task, turn on the television or whatever.
--I found a few kindred spirits in the workplace and cultivated friendships which lessened the overall negativity of the situation.
--I was consistently cordial and professional but kept interaction to a minimum, did not engage with gossip or drama.
Good luck!
posted by rhonzo at 7:51 AM on April 17, 2020 [3 favorites]
One piece of valuable work place advice I follow as much as possible is "assume innocence". It makes life much simpler. So, I'd say keep your focus on your job and ignore anything not related to it. For the person with the "informal" power, cultivate a good record of being responsive and helpful as makes sense, and as you would do for any colleague.
People are calling this person a bully and a fake, which may be the case, but may not be.
For what it is worth, I recently had a very difficult colleague who was a bully and a fake. At different times, I found different things helpful:
-I knew my work spoke for itself and reminded myself of this often.
-I did not complain about this employee to other employees. There were occasional issues that were unequivocally problematic, and I let my supervisor know as an FYI saying I was find managing things but wanted to make them aware.
--I occasionally wrote it out along the lines of the letter you never send. This was helpful for processing the feelings and getting them out of my head.
--I was able to get some clear lines between our roles, so we could stay out of each others' lanes.
--After a period of time, the predictability of it all made it a bit of a joke. I would send an email asking a question knowing I would not get a response, and just not sweat it.
--I knew this person was pretty damaged, so I tried to keep this point of view, understanding much of what they did and said was about their own brokenness and had nothing to do with me. I'd say the phrase, "The poor thing" whenever I'd think of this person.
--I limited the amount of time I would complain or stress over the situation, out side of work in particular. When I found myself ruminating over the latest issue, I'd force myself to physically move, start a new task, turn on the television or whatever.
--I found a few kindred spirits in the workplace and cultivated friendships which lessened the overall negativity of the situation.
--I was consistently cordial and professional but kept interaction to a minimum, did not engage with gossip or drama.
Good luck!
posted by rhonzo at 7:51 AM on April 17, 2020 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: Thanks everyone. Having just read an article about ostracizing at work and the harm it causes, I am ready to close this thread. It might be in my head. It probably isn't as I had a feeling about this person from the beginning, and I am reacting as one would expect to being ostracized. But assuming innocence also feels better and makes it easier to interact as the person I would rather be.
If you have any additional suggestions for creating political capital despite a colleague who maneuvers in a win/lose manner or suggestions to digest this horrible anxious obsessive energy, please send a MeMail.
posted by crunchy potato at 6:20 PM on April 17, 2020 [1 favorite]
If you have any additional suggestions for creating political capital despite a colleague who maneuvers in a win/lose manner or suggestions to digest this horrible anxious obsessive energy, please send a MeMail.
posted by crunchy potato at 6:20 PM on April 17, 2020 [1 favorite]
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If you want to ally with a strategic player you need to be able to contribute something. Show your value to this person. Strategic people are transactional, they're not going to go out of their way to do more unless it will further their own goals.
So keep that in mind.
If you want to befriend this person as a friendly acquaintance, that's a separate series of social actions from your work duties. If you want a good relationship with this person to further yourself politically at work, you need to tactically shop yourself to them in every interaction you have.
posted by phunniemee at 9:39 PM on April 15, 2020 [11 favorites]