Violated Boundaries, Mother Edition
February 2, 2020 5:07 PM Subscribe
My mom has a long-standing history of focusing on all the negatives, especially as it relates to her relationship with me. Every few months she tries to begin a feud with me over a perceived slight, but her latest is a doozy. She's spinning over a remark I apparently made post-surgery when I was taking Percocet.
She was chatting and asked when I would come visit her and apparently I said, "Never." I do not remember saying this, being completely loopy.
Regardless, she has brought this up to me twice and the last time, I shut it down. I was on meds, it was stupid, I was sorry, and I would not engage on this ever again. I told her I would not spin with her into an endless hole of regret and sadness over something I said when I was wasted.
But she brought it up again-- and was very upset and said she hadn't slept in months (!) and could no longer carry this burden of knives in her heart and other extreme over the top ranting. She's devastated over our relationship (this is a common theme in her rants) and needs to know what she did to me to make me hate her so much (I don't hate her but stuff like this sure doesn't endear her to me).
I reminded her we had put this to bed months ago and she knew I would not engage with this again. So she yelled a bit and then said she would never speak to me again.
For years, our conversations have revolved around her bitter unhappiness and me saying I am not listening to that.
She has tendencies towards BPD and is really only happy when there's trouble within the family or she's feuding with a neighbor. She thrives on drama and does not want solutions. For instance, I bought a house with room for her and her husband and she said she'd move over her dead body, which seemed odd because all she does is complain about where she lives in combination with desperate yearning to be closer to her family. She doesn't want to be happy. You can't win with her.
None of this is new, but I just feel I'm DONE with all her crap. The more I thought about it, the more I realize I don't actually want to talk to her, because every conversation is just recriminations about me or complaints about her husband. She's exhausting and angry and just negative and mean. I am sad this is her life but conversely, I can't help her, I'm tired of being her punching bag and I really want to stick with my boundaries.
I am NOT asking for advice about how to continue a relationship with her. Right now I do not want that. I am wondering how to feel more okay with this decision to keep her out of my life.
She was chatting and asked when I would come visit her and apparently I said, "Never." I do not remember saying this, being completely loopy.
Regardless, she has brought this up to me twice and the last time, I shut it down. I was on meds, it was stupid, I was sorry, and I would not engage on this ever again. I told her I would not spin with her into an endless hole of regret and sadness over something I said when I was wasted.
But she brought it up again-- and was very upset and said she hadn't slept in months (!) and could no longer carry this burden of knives in her heart and other extreme over the top ranting. She's devastated over our relationship (this is a common theme in her rants) and needs to know what she did to me to make me hate her so much (I don't hate her but stuff like this sure doesn't endear her to me).
I reminded her we had put this to bed months ago and she knew I would not engage with this again. So she yelled a bit and then said she would never speak to me again.
For years, our conversations have revolved around her bitter unhappiness and me saying I am not listening to that.
She has tendencies towards BPD and is really only happy when there's trouble within the family or she's feuding with a neighbor. She thrives on drama and does not want solutions. For instance, I bought a house with room for her and her husband and she said she'd move over her dead body, which seemed odd because all she does is complain about where she lives in combination with desperate yearning to be closer to her family. She doesn't want to be happy. You can't win with her.
None of this is new, but I just feel I'm DONE with all her crap. The more I thought about it, the more I realize I don't actually want to talk to her, because every conversation is just recriminations about me or complaints about her husband. She's exhausting and angry and just negative and mean. I am sad this is her life but conversely, I can't help her, I'm tired of being her punching bag and I really want to stick with my boundaries.
I am NOT asking for advice about how to continue a relationship with her. Right now I do not want that. I am wondering how to feel more okay with this decision to keep her out of my life.
You've decided to stop sticking your hand in the fire despite the fact that it once cooked you several meals! I am in favour of this wise move on your part. Stay well away from fire and only negotiate with it carefully and with full awareness of how it can hurt you, and you'll do fine.
posted by seanmpuckett at 6:05 PM on February 2, 2020 [5 favorites]
posted by seanmpuckett at 6:05 PM on February 2, 2020 [5 favorites]
There’s a literary trope where women or other somehow powerless people can say what they actually mean under the cover of madness or inebriation. Think of that saying ‘in vino veritas’ or how Ophelia tackles her ill treatment by all the men in her life in her scenes as a mad woman.
How much easier in that sober moment of realising after the Percocet wore off if you could say to your mother ‘I said that huh? Interesting. Maybe I need to investigate those feelings more when I’m feeling clearer.’ And then do that.
posted by honey-barbara at 6:07 PM on February 2, 2020 [1 favorite]
How much easier in that sober moment of realising after the Percocet wore off if you could say to your mother ‘I said that huh? Interesting. Maybe I need to investigate those feelings more when I’m feeling clearer.’ And then do that.
posted by honey-barbara at 6:07 PM on February 2, 2020 [1 favorite]
To avoid abusing edit window: where you are now in your situation you could probably still do that.
‘You have brought up many, many times this statement I made when I was not really awake. You’ve been upset by it, and I acknowledge that. I have denied it means something, but with the intervening months of your reminders, I have been sitting with what it means. It means I think, that I said something true, not as in ‘never’ seeing you, but in expressing resentment about what it is like when we are together and how hurtful it often is. I can’t see this changing because you are frequently hurting me in your interactions, and perhaps the ‘never’ of my twilight statement reflects that.’
And you know, even more interesting about the ‘never’ statement is your own hurt about her refusal to join you in your space, symbolised by a home with room for her. She keeps rejecting you, and nothing annoys a person who threatens or performs abandonment, is being on the receiving end of such enactments.
posted by honey-barbara at 6:15 PM on February 2, 2020 [3 favorites]
‘You have brought up many, many times this statement I made when I was not really awake. You’ve been upset by it, and I acknowledge that. I have denied it means something, but with the intervening months of your reminders, I have been sitting with what it means. It means I think, that I said something true, not as in ‘never’ seeing you, but in expressing resentment about what it is like when we are together and how hurtful it often is. I can’t see this changing because you are frequently hurting me in your interactions, and perhaps the ‘never’ of my twilight statement reflects that.’
And you know, even more interesting about the ‘never’ statement is your own hurt about her refusal to join you in your space, symbolised by a home with room for her. She keeps rejecting you, and nothing annoys a person who threatens or performs abandonment, is being on the receiving end of such enactments.
posted by honey-barbara at 6:15 PM on February 2, 2020 [3 favorites]
I’m sorry this has happened to you. It isn’t fair or right.
You asked how to be okay with this fundamentally not okay situation (nobody gives up on a close relative because it feels awesome — you do it because it is the least painful option). I think this is one of those situations where you have to do the thing, and let the feeling follow on its own time. It will probably be slow. That doesn’t mean you’re doing anything wrong.
Who do you have that you can call if/when you feel guilty about not calling your mother / angry that you haven’t received the kind of warmth we’re “supposed to” have from a parent / other hard feelings? What can you distract yourself with at those times? How do you take care of yourself during an illness or a heartbreak?
Captain Awkward has written a ton about this, in case you would find it validating to read stories from other people in bad/unrecoverable situations with family.
posted by eirias at 6:19 PM on February 2, 2020 [2 favorites]
You asked how to be okay with this fundamentally not okay situation (nobody gives up on a close relative because it feels awesome — you do it because it is the least painful option). I think this is one of those situations where you have to do the thing, and let the feeling follow on its own time. It will probably be slow. That doesn’t mean you’re doing anything wrong.
Who do you have that you can call if/when you feel guilty about not calling your mother / angry that you haven’t received the kind of warmth we’re “supposed to” have from a parent / other hard feelings? What can you distract yourself with at those times? How do you take care of yourself during an illness or a heartbreak?
Captain Awkward has written a ton about this, in case you would find it validating to read stories from other people in bad/unrecoverable situations with family.
posted by eirias at 6:19 PM on February 2, 2020 [2 favorites]
Best answer: Because you sound somewhat ambivalent about the permanence of this, you could try something like:
“Mom, it really upsets me that you keep bullying me over something I said when I was on pain medication. You are being a jerk and trying to make me feel bad for something I had no control over. It’s like being mad at me for something you dreamed about me. I asked you to stop bringing it up and you won’t listen, so I’m taking a break from our calls/visits for a while.”
posted by sallybrown at 6:23 PM on February 2, 2020 [21 favorites]
“Mom, it really upsets me that you keep bullying me over something I said when I was on pain medication. You are being a jerk and trying to make me feel bad for something I had no control over. It’s like being mad at me for something you dreamed about me. I asked you to stop bringing it up and you won’t listen, so I’m taking a break from our calls/visits for a while.”
posted by sallybrown at 6:23 PM on February 2, 2020 [21 favorites]
Best answer: Here's how to feel okay about it: she will never stop. She will never have a moment where she realizes that your existence isn't solely to spite her, to harm her, to cause her some sort of indescribable anguish which she must nevertheless describe, repeatedly, to anyone who will listen, at great length, despite it having no basis in reality. Nothing you ever do will make her understand this, because it's not even ABOUT you! It's only about her!! Out of everything and everyone on this earth, she will always be the center, until the day she dies. And walking away from that is the only way to extricate yourself from her persecution fantasies. You will never, ever logic or reason her into understanding that you're not doing anything to her and that she's doing everything to herself.
You have to let it go and love yourself, secure in the factual knowledge that you have not spent a lifetime deliberately harming her with fiendish calculated cruelties and violations of the geneva conventions or whatever the fuck she believes you to have done. I don't even know you! I don't know a fucking thing about you! But I do know that whatever she is telling you, whatever heinous crimes she alleges you have committed against her very soul, IT'S NOT TRUE. She has a disease. It sucks. Your life should go on. Let it go on.
posted by poffin boffin at 6:24 PM on February 2, 2020 [37 favorites]
You have to let it go and love yourself, secure in the factual knowledge that you have not spent a lifetime deliberately harming her with fiendish calculated cruelties and violations of the geneva conventions or whatever the fuck she believes you to have done. I don't even know you! I don't know a fucking thing about you! But I do know that whatever she is telling you, whatever heinous crimes she alleges you have committed against her very soul, IT'S NOT TRUE. She has a disease. It sucks. Your life should go on. Let it go on.
posted by poffin boffin at 6:24 PM on February 2, 2020 [37 favorites]
Best answer: Be prepared to experience real grief, and carve out time for yourself to grieve. It doesn't matter that the relationship has been unfulfilling and damaging; there will still be grief. Care for yourself. Your experience as an adult woman will be different than people around you who can call up or rely on their mothers. Don't mistake grief for having made a mistake about what you need.
posted by unstrungharp at 6:28 PM on February 2, 2020 [31 favorites]
posted by unstrungharp at 6:28 PM on February 2, 2020 [31 favorites]
How to feel more ok with this? Remind yourself that you come first, and you are doing this for your own mental health. You are making the right choice. If this was anyone else, you likely wouldn't invite this into your life, right? Remind yourself you are doing this for the following reasons:
She is is really only happy when there's trouble within the family or she's feuding with a neighbor.
She thrives on drama and does not want solutions.
She doesn't want to be happy. You can't win with her.
Every conversation is just recriminations about me or complaints about her husband.
She's exhausting and angry and just negative and mean.
I can't help her, I'm tired of being her punching bag
What unstrung harp says about grief is very wise; listen to them.
posted by foxjacket at 6:45 PM on February 2, 2020 [2 favorites]
She is is really only happy when there's trouble within the family or she's feuding with a neighbor.
She thrives on drama and does not want solutions.
She doesn't want to be happy. You can't win with her.
Every conversation is just recriminations about me or complaints about her husband.
She's exhausting and angry and just negative and mean.
I can't help her, I'm tired of being her punching bag
What unstrung harp says about grief is very wise; listen to them.
posted by foxjacket at 6:45 PM on February 2, 2020 [2 favorites]
Best answer: My husband sent me a link to this and said, "This could be you." He was right. My mom and dad divorced when I was seven. My dad and stepmom and I have a fantastic close relationship, but it was my mom I always lived closest to. My mom will never be happy, and for my entire life I heard how she wished she'd had all boys (instead of a boy and two girls). I was never enough, ever. She was happy to list all the ways she had "sacrificed" things for me, and how much trouble I was to raise. She thought nothing of expecting me to pick her up at the airport with no notice at 11pm, and when I got there she introduced me to her friends as, "This is [routergirl]. I would tell you her last name but she's been married so many times I can't remember it right now." I thought she was nuts, and I thought I had successfully been letting it roll off me.
Then I met my now husband. He came to visit and stayed with me, in a house I shared with my mom. He was baffled. He said, "Why do you let her talk to you like that? You don't let anyone treat you like that." I blew it off, you know, oh, she's my mom, she's just like that. Then something weird happened. Suddenly I couldn't stop seeing how she treated me. And connecting it to how I felt about myself. How I never thought I was enough, in any way, for anything. That I would always be scrabbling off the edge of success, that I would owe any great things to her and all bad things would be my fault. That my brother, who we were raised to believe can do no wrong, really isn't that great of a guy. Once I saw it, I couldn't unsee it. It was so obvious. How had I thought I'd been ignoring it all these years? It had snuck in and twisted how I treated myself. My kids lived with us, and she would make up rules, not tell anyone, and then yell at them for breaking them. She told my youngest he should go to college and my oldest he shouldn't bother looking for more than a trade school. She was treating my kids like she treated us - favoritism, unpredictability, wild mood swings, offenses no one knew existed. One year she sold me and my kids on this great plan she had to go have Thanksgiving with my sister in Arizona. We said great, you guys should spend time together! A few days later she sat next to my youngest, then six, on the couch and proceeded to sob loudly. He said, "What's wrong, grandma?" She said, "No one wants me around for Thanksgiving. You all want me out of my house." He came to me, like, "um, mom? Grandma is having a problem and I don't know what to do."
She never much liked my husband because he didn't bend to her. He expected logic and sense, and if she was irrational, he ignored her. It drove her nuts. One year she was dramatically whining about how hard it is to cook Thanksgiving dinner every year, so he came out and cooked. He was happy to. The whole time he cooked she would wander into the kitchen, look into a pot or the oven, and say, "Oh. Hm. You're doing it THAT way?" You could tell from her tone he might as well smear feces on the wall and call it a day. But bless him, he just said, "Yes." And kept on.
Large screaming fights over perceived wrongs were common. My mom kicked me out then told me of course I wasn't kicked out. I paid half the mortgage payments and yet she always needed more money, and often spent hours shopping at the mall. She was snide, and rude, and biting. Sure, she could be fun sometimes, and we laughed a lot, but you never knew when it was going to go pear shaped. When I was in my 30's my dad finally told me that my mom was diagnosed as having a borderline personality disorder when we were young, but that she has denied it ever since. I believe it. She has denied it and gets offended if you even suggest it to her. For a brief time she was on medication and she was LOVELY to be around for long periods of time. Then she decided she didn't need it and it was a hellish nightmare for weeks, before I said, "Maybe you should look into going back on the medication?" Softly, I said it, of course, gently, knowing this was dangerous territory. Sure enough, she slammed the lid on the washer (she'd been doing laundry) and said, "How dare you presume to know what is best for me! Who do you think you are? With all your problems it's pretty rich to think you can give me any advice." Not that it matters, but I was a single mom of three boys who took overloaded semesters of college and worked full time to get on my feet. I was pretty bad ass and I didn't even know it. I still thought I was a mess.
That is my mom. My mom, who I last spoke to when she told me marrying my husband was a mistake, that moving to where he lived in Canada would be a disaster, that it would never work. That was in 2009, the year I married him. We have been happy - are still happy, in fact, weirdly so - ever since. The first few years were rough. It felt a little like I was coming out of a war zone. I was tired a lot, slept a lot. It took some time to realize my self hatred was largely thanks to her. I had to rediscover me. Not my mom's me, but the real me. The me I am rather than the story she told about who I was, if that makes sense. I have not regretted my decision. Not once. I did not say "I am not going to speak to you anymore," I just...moved out (with warning, of course) and gave her no new address or number. Sometimes I miss her. The funny her. The good her. But that part of her was so often ruined by some imagined offense or dramatics that you never knew how long you had.
The hardest part is that my brother has not spoken to me for three years now because he doesn't understand my choice. I miss him sometimes, but part of me is like, dude, if you were half the wondrous being my mom thinks you are, you would at least respect my decision, table any objections you have, and continue to have a relationship with me. My sister totally gets it and is supportive. My dad and I still are very close, and he gets it and doesn't add to any negativity about her. Sometimes I wonder what I would do if my mom got ill, like terminally so. Or... if something happened to her, would I fly down and see her? I don't know. I'd like to think I would. Because she does love me in her own screwed up way. It isn't her that damaged me, its her untreated mental illness. But because she refuses to even see someone about it, or consider it, she is its accomplice in the damage it does. And to maintain my own sanity, I cannot allow her back into my life.
Make the choice that is right for you. I know that is no help. But you need to protect yourself. Consider her mental health issues the enemy. Is she contributing to them by not addressing them? Is she downright refusing to even consider they might exist? There is no shame (absolutely none) in cutting toxicity out of your life. You are worthy. You are enough. You are more than enough. Start there. And if you ever need to talk, memail me. It's a weird topic, and a lot of people don't get it. A lot of people say, like my brother, "But she's your MOM!" My life has been a lovely thing over the last ten years without her in it. Sure, it had lovely times before. And I still have troubles that crop up. But I no longer reach out to her hoping she will somehow be there for me when she never was before. I no longer hear her criticisms, and when I fail at something, that little voice that used to say, "Well of course you screwed that up," is gone. I banished it. My husband helped. He's amazing. I've learned to mother myself, I suppose. Sometimes you have to.
Edited to add: Sorry, I wrote without reading other comments. YES GRIEF! Unstrungharp is right. That may be what I went through those first few years.
Edited again (god, sorry I am going on way too long) to add that she now tells my brother and sister how wonderful I met my husband because without him who knows where I would have ended up. Hahahahaha.
posted by routergirl at 6:58 PM on February 2, 2020 [68 favorites]
Then I met my now husband. He came to visit and stayed with me, in a house I shared with my mom. He was baffled. He said, "Why do you let her talk to you like that? You don't let anyone treat you like that." I blew it off, you know, oh, she's my mom, she's just like that. Then something weird happened. Suddenly I couldn't stop seeing how she treated me. And connecting it to how I felt about myself. How I never thought I was enough, in any way, for anything. That I would always be scrabbling off the edge of success, that I would owe any great things to her and all bad things would be my fault. That my brother, who we were raised to believe can do no wrong, really isn't that great of a guy. Once I saw it, I couldn't unsee it. It was so obvious. How had I thought I'd been ignoring it all these years? It had snuck in and twisted how I treated myself. My kids lived with us, and she would make up rules, not tell anyone, and then yell at them for breaking them. She told my youngest he should go to college and my oldest he shouldn't bother looking for more than a trade school. She was treating my kids like she treated us - favoritism, unpredictability, wild mood swings, offenses no one knew existed. One year she sold me and my kids on this great plan she had to go have Thanksgiving with my sister in Arizona. We said great, you guys should spend time together! A few days later she sat next to my youngest, then six, on the couch and proceeded to sob loudly. He said, "What's wrong, grandma?" She said, "No one wants me around for Thanksgiving. You all want me out of my house." He came to me, like, "um, mom? Grandma is having a problem and I don't know what to do."
She never much liked my husband because he didn't bend to her. He expected logic and sense, and if she was irrational, he ignored her. It drove her nuts. One year she was dramatically whining about how hard it is to cook Thanksgiving dinner every year, so he came out and cooked. He was happy to. The whole time he cooked she would wander into the kitchen, look into a pot or the oven, and say, "Oh. Hm. You're doing it THAT way?" You could tell from her tone he might as well smear feces on the wall and call it a day. But bless him, he just said, "Yes." And kept on.
Large screaming fights over perceived wrongs were common. My mom kicked me out then told me of course I wasn't kicked out. I paid half the mortgage payments and yet she always needed more money, and often spent hours shopping at the mall. She was snide, and rude, and biting. Sure, she could be fun sometimes, and we laughed a lot, but you never knew when it was going to go pear shaped. When I was in my 30's my dad finally told me that my mom was diagnosed as having a borderline personality disorder when we were young, but that she has denied it ever since. I believe it. She has denied it and gets offended if you even suggest it to her. For a brief time she was on medication and she was LOVELY to be around for long periods of time. Then she decided she didn't need it and it was a hellish nightmare for weeks, before I said, "Maybe you should look into going back on the medication?" Softly, I said it, of course, gently, knowing this was dangerous territory. Sure enough, she slammed the lid on the washer (she'd been doing laundry) and said, "How dare you presume to know what is best for me! Who do you think you are? With all your problems it's pretty rich to think you can give me any advice." Not that it matters, but I was a single mom of three boys who took overloaded semesters of college and worked full time to get on my feet. I was pretty bad ass and I didn't even know it. I still thought I was a mess.
That is my mom. My mom, who I last spoke to when she told me marrying my husband was a mistake, that moving to where he lived in Canada would be a disaster, that it would never work. That was in 2009, the year I married him. We have been happy - are still happy, in fact, weirdly so - ever since. The first few years were rough. It felt a little like I was coming out of a war zone. I was tired a lot, slept a lot. It took some time to realize my self hatred was largely thanks to her. I had to rediscover me. Not my mom's me, but the real me. The me I am rather than the story she told about who I was, if that makes sense. I have not regretted my decision. Not once. I did not say "I am not going to speak to you anymore," I just...moved out (with warning, of course) and gave her no new address or number. Sometimes I miss her. The funny her. The good her. But that part of her was so often ruined by some imagined offense or dramatics that you never knew how long you had.
The hardest part is that my brother has not spoken to me for three years now because he doesn't understand my choice. I miss him sometimes, but part of me is like, dude, if you were half the wondrous being my mom thinks you are, you would at least respect my decision, table any objections you have, and continue to have a relationship with me. My sister totally gets it and is supportive. My dad and I still are very close, and he gets it and doesn't add to any negativity about her. Sometimes I wonder what I would do if my mom got ill, like terminally so. Or... if something happened to her, would I fly down and see her? I don't know. I'd like to think I would. Because she does love me in her own screwed up way. It isn't her that damaged me, its her untreated mental illness. But because she refuses to even see someone about it, or consider it, she is its accomplice in the damage it does. And to maintain my own sanity, I cannot allow her back into my life.
Make the choice that is right for you. I know that is no help. But you need to protect yourself. Consider her mental health issues the enemy. Is she contributing to them by not addressing them? Is she downright refusing to even consider they might exist? There is no shame (absolutely none) in cutting toxicity out of your life. You are worthy. You are enough. You are more than enough. Start there. And if you ever need to talk, memail me. It's a weird topic, and a lot of people don't get it. A lot of people say, like my brother, "But she's your MOM!" My life has been a lovely thing over the last ten years without her in it. Sure, it had lovely times before. And I still have troubles that crop up. But I no longer reach out to her hoping she will somehow be there for me when she never was before. I no longer hear her criticisms, and when I fail at something, that little voice that used to say, "Well of course you screwed that up," is gone. I banished it. My husband helped. He's amazing. I've learned to mother myself, I suppose. Sometimes you have to.
Edited to add: Sorry, I wrote without reading other comments. YES GRIEF! Unstrungharp is right. That may be what I went through those first few years.
Edited again (god, sorry I am going on way too long) to add that she now tells my brother and sister how wonderful I met my husband because without him who knows where I would have ended up. Hahahahaha.
posted by routergirl at 6:58 PM on February 2, 2020 [68 favorites]
I had a person in my life like your mom (not a family member) You want to feel more OK about keeping her out of your life? Remind yourself that YOUR LIFE belongs to you, and you don't need any termites eating around the edges of it. You owe her nothing.
"...could no longer carry this burden of knives in her heart..."
I admit I hooted when I read this. Such melodrama!
posted by BostonTerrier at 7:19 PM on February 2, 2020 [3 favorites]
"...could no longer carry this burden of knives in her heart..."
I admit I hooted when I read this. Such melodrama!
posted by BostonTerrier at 7:19 PM on February 2, 2020 [3 favorites]
Best answer: There's a book called "Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents" that has helped me and may help you immensely. It explains a lot of the head-bashing we go through trying to understand that we expect an adult who raised us somewhat well to be capable of emotional growth and depth, but... some of us don't have those parents. And sometimes there's not one final straw or one Real Abusive moment that's the cutoff point. Sometimes it's just the 50th interaction where you realize this person makes you actively unhappy. You'd probably divorce a spouse if you realized that, and it's okay to distance yourself from a parent, too.
posted by nakedmolerats at 8:00 PM on February 2, 2020 [10 favorites]
posted by nakedmolerats at 8:00 PM on February 2, 2020 [10 favorites]
You do not have to let people treat you like garbage just because you are related to them.
You can choose not to let this person into your life for a day, a week, a month, a year, or ever again.
I can say from experience that I only really began to get healthy emotionally when I cut my mother out of my life - and when I found out, years later, that she had died, it was the most liberating feeling in the world, because I knew that she could never, ever hurt me again.
Some people might say that makes me heartless. I frame it, instead, as giving myself the care, concern and nurturing that my mother could not. I know for a fact that if I had seen my mother prior to her death, even on her deathbed, she would have used it as an opportunity to hurl blame and shame and guilt at me for not being enough, not doing enough, the same way she did my entire life. It was a kindness to us both that I did not give her the opportunity to be her worst self (her only self) one last time. And I have zero regrets. None.
Do what is best and kindest and most nurturing for yourself. Because she cannot, and will not, and you deserve that kindness.
posted by WaywardPlane at 8:06 PM on February 2, 2020 [7 favorites]
You can choose not to let this person into your life for a day, a week, a month, a year, or ever again.
I can say from experience that I only really began to get healthy emotionally when I cut my mother out of my life - and when I found out, years later, that she had died, it was the most liberating feeling in the world, because I knew that she could never, ever hurt me again.
Some people might say that makes me heartless. I frame it, instead, as giving myself the care, concern and nurturing that my mother could not. I know for a fact that if I had seen my mother prior to her death, even on her deathbed, she would have used it as an opportunity to hurl blame and shame and guilt at me for not being enough, not doing enough, the same way she did my entire life. It was a kindness to us both that I did not give her the opportunity to be her worst self (her only self) one last time. And I have zero regrets. None.
Do what is best and kindest and most nurturing for yourself. Because she cannot, and will not, and you deserve that kindness.
posted by WaywardPlane at 8:06 PM on February 2, 2020 [7 favorites]
I also had a conversation with someone awhile back whose sibling was estranged from their parent. The group I was with made the usual "that's a shame, life is short, etc." small talk and the person said "you know, I think that's actually exactly what Sibling thinks - life is short and they don't want to spend it with people they don't like to spend time with."
Of course every family is different, but it's a useful counterpoint to the more common guilt response.
posted by nakedmolerats at 8:07 PM on February 2, 2020 [2 favorites]
Of course every family is different, but it's a useful counterpoint to the more common guilt response.
posted by nakedmolerats at 8:07 PM on February 2, 2020 [2 favorites]
I am no-contact with my mom. It's been about 4 years. There were periods before that of no-contact and limited contact. Every time I allowed contact to resume, I regretted it. It was more of the same. And not only that, there was the additional feeling of being a sucker for believing it might change.
I'm not sure there is a good answer to your question. I often feel incredibly guilty even though I know she will never give me the respect needed for a relationship. She's just not capable. But I still feel like a bad person. Time makes it easier. Also, letting key people you're close to know the situation makes it less of a shameful secret you have to keep.
Maybe make yourself a sign that says "It has been [# of] days since Mom made me feel like shit" and update it every day as a reminder of what awaits you if you open communication again. It's easy to forget how shitty it can feel, and maybe something to help you remember that there's no joy in communicating with her will help you accept that you've made the right choice.
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 8:37 PM on February 2, 2020 [1 favorite]
I'm not sure there is a good answer to your question. I often feel incredibly guilty even though I know she will never give me the respect needed for a relationship. She's just not capable. But I still feel like a bad person. Time makes it easier. Also, letting key people you're close to know the situation makes it less of a shameful secret you have to keep.
Maybe make yourself a sign that says "It has been [# of] days since Mom made me feel like shit" and update it every day as a reminder of what awaits you if you open communication again. It's easy to forget how shitty it can feel, and maybe something to help you remember that there's no joy in communicating with her will help you accept that you've made the right choice.
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 8:37 PM on February 2, 2020 [1 favorite]
Sounds like a really reasonable boundary to this internet stranger. If it helps, you can frame it (to yourself) as a temporary measure. You don't have to cut her off forever; you do need some space from her right now. If things change in either of your lives, such that more contact makes sense and feels ok, you're open to gathering more data about her behaviour & reassessing your level of contact at that time.
posted by pseudostrabismus at 9:24 PM on February 2, 2020
posted by pseudostrabismus at 9:24 PM on February 2, 2020
I have been no contact with both of my parents for about 3 years and my sister for about 1 year. I have grieved and in some ways continue to grieve for the family I wish I'd had, a family who liked me, respected me, and offered me an unconditional love instead of a half-love based around judgments and requirements and put downs. But I didn't have that wonderful family - I got a group of people who did not like me or respect me, who doled out love like it was morsels from the king's plate and I was lucky to have the scraps, and who spent a lifetime trying to make me feel like shit for being who I am. The grief will go on, but the freedom of knowing that I could choose, and did choose, my own sanity and future joy instead of that ongoing saga of hurt and pain is well worth the grief, 3 years (and 1 year) out.
I also did get a lot out of the workbook mentioned above, Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents. It really helped me to pick apart the things my family taught me that were so damaging and start to uproot them. I wish you all the best.
posted by fairlynearlyready at 11:00 PM on February 2, 2020 [4 favorites]
I also did get a lot out of the workbook mentioned above, Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents. It really helped me to pick apart the things my family taught me that were so damaging and start to uproot them. I wish you all the best.
posted by fairlynearlyready at 11:00 PM on February 2, 2020 [4 favorites]
Best answer: Count me as one of the people who totally gets why you would want to cut off a poisonous family member, looks like we have a bunch of us here, hello everyone. I have only spoken to my grandmother once in the last 30 years, a 5 minute conversation where she called to ask for an airport pickup, and to stay at my house for a week! after not speaking for 20 years! In that brief phone call she managed to insult me at least twice. Now, cutting contact for me wasn't that bad, but my mom had a really hard go of it. Over the years I have had to reassure her many times that she did the right thing - My grandmother was making everyone in the family miserable, and there was nothing we'd be able to do to make her happy either. It's really ok for you to stay away from someone that causes you so much misery. Especially consider that her drama-creating ways are wayyyy more painful for you to bear than pretty much anyone else in the world, because she knows all of your sore points, and all the ways to hurt you the most. With friends and strangers, there is only so much deep chaos she can cause - she can't dig into their psyche anywhere nearly as deeply as she can into yours. Letting yourself be around for her to do that to isn't helping her be a better person. My grandmother has always had a make-friends-be-evil-lose-friends cycle throughout her life, and she always seemed at her best with new people. Let your mother be free to feud with whoever the hell she likes, and stop sharpening her claws on your heart. And let yourself have the chance to heal. My grandmother cause a lot of anguish in my family, but now we can laugh about it, because we put it behind us. You can do this, it will be ok.
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 12:36 AM on February 3, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 12:36 AM on February 3, 2020 [4 favorites]
Response by poster: I ended up sending her a short email along the lines of what sallybrown suggested and within minutes she responded with one line, "I didn't say I would never speak to you again."
It just confirmed that she just wants to pick fights, so I'm done. I checked in with my brother with whom I'm close and he applauded this and thought I had given her more than enough opportunities to play nice.
I had been in this place of trying to prove how awful she is to me, but I truly feel like I no longer need to search for evidence. Thanks to all.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 3:12 AM on February 3, 2020 [31 favorites]
It just confirmed that she just wants to pick fights, so I'm done. I checked in with my brother with whom I'm close and he applauded this and thought I had given her more than enough opportunities to play nice.
I had been in this place of trying to prove how awful she is to me, but I truly feel like I no longer need to search for evidence. Thanks to all.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 3:12 AM on February 3, 2020 [31 favorites]
You don't owe a mean and sadistic parent anything. You didn't ask to be born and you sure as hell weren't put on earth to be her sole life support or her therapist or her only friend; if she sees that as your function, that's on her, not on you. You did the right thing.
posted by holborne at 9:51 AM on February 3, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by holborne at 9:51 AM on February 3, 2020 [1 favorite]
You might find more help and support at Reddit's raisedbynarcissists sub. Good for you for taking a break from her. You don't have to define how long that break will be nor do you have to even tell her that you're doing so. Revel in the freedom it brings and treat yourself kindly when the grief comes and goes.
posted by purple_bird at 10:25 AM on February 3, 2020
posted by purple_bird at 10:25 AM on February 3, 2020
Really recommending Captain Awkward's column because she writes extensively about family boundaries and gets the complicated feelings - grief, confusion, anticlimax, dread - that come out of that. Good scripts too. Also, I totally get the feeling of needing evidence to prove what happened happened, esp. in a fam where your feelings weren't enough as a reason, you needed concrete proof - and just want to say your reaction is real and your feelings are real as they are. Real enough to act on and protect yourself. <3
posted by Geameade at 10:41 AM on February 3, 2020
posted by Geameade at 10:41 AM on February 3, 2020
Another Reddit for perspective: JustNoMIL (includes one's own mother, not just mothers-in-law). It is far from perfect and posts + advice are obviously going to be biased in a certain direction but even a quick skim will show how (unfortunately) not uncommon your experience is. They have some practical advice for going low or no contact as well, though some of it might not be proportional to your needs.
posted by automatic cabinet at 11:59 AM on February 3, 2020
posted by automatic cabinet at 11:59 AM on February 3, 2020
I have a mother like this and I went no contact and have been much happier ever since. It’s ok, and it’s even good for you to do this.
posted by rabbitrabbit at 6:56 PM on February 3, 2020
posted by rabbitrabbit at 6:56 PM on February 3, 2020
This thread is closed to new comments.
Conversely I also have a mother who often frustrates me, but she's never, not ever, said anything as toxic as the quotes you've included here. That's some beyond-the-pale shizz.
Speaking as a mother and as a daughter: sounds like your decision is not only justified but long overdue.
posted by fingersandtoes at 5:40 PM on February 2, 2020 [10 favorites]