Please recommend books about young women manipulating men
August 6, 2019 9:06 PM Subscribe
My brother Alex is dating a girl who is insecure, manipulative and has depression and anxiety problems. Alex’s girlfriend uses him as a psychotherapist for when she has a crisis. Sometimes she calls him in the middle of the night and Alex talks to her for hours to mitigate the crisis. This girl also regularly threatens Alex with taking her life if he will leave her.
We were telling Alex that these relationships are unhealthy, and about his girlfriend's codependency and manipulation. No success. Alex loves her and feels good about helping her to cope with her psychological problems, he feels like a superman.
This unhealthy relationship takes tall on our family. We all live in a small house and sometimes it feels like living in a psychiatric emergency department. She recently threatened Alex with committing suicide if he will go to a college in a different city.
We would like to give Alex some books that talk about the relationship similar to his. We hope that after reading these books he will realize that the relationship is unhealthy and will set up firmer boundaries with his girlfriend.
This unhealthy relationship takes tall on our family. We all live in a small house and sometimes it feels like living in a psychiatric emergency department. She recently threatened Alex with committing suicide if he will go to a college in a different city.
We would like to give Alex some books that talk about the relationship similar to his. We hope that after reading these books he will realize that the relationship is unhealthy and will set up firmer boundaries with his girlfriend.
Maybe don't try to cast her as a manipulator -- he doesn't need to see her as some kind of villain. She needs something, and she thinks she's getting it from him.
A huge problem with this is that if she needs something more than what he can offer, and something terrible happens, or she becomes angry or super sad or something -- he's going to fail her and he's going to feel very, very bad.
Another huge problem is that playing the role of therapist / parent / big brother that much is not really compatible with romantic partner. It's romantic in a way, but he won't be able to respect her as a powerful woman in her own right, eventually, or at least not feel it in a thrilling way. Or something -- I feel like I'm not describing this well, but something like that.
So - the first point is probably easier to address. Books that show the complexities and power of depression or suicidality would probably be helpful. If her problems are serious, she deserves a professional, and time to address them. If he continues to "treat" her as an amateur -- he's not taking them as seriously as he should, maybe.
posted by amtho at 9:44 PM on August 6, 2019 [9 favorites]
A huge problem with this is that if she needs something more than what he can offer, and something terrible happens, or she becomes angry or super sad or something -- he's going to fail her and he's going to feel very, very bad.
Another huge problem is that playing the role of therapist / parent / big brother that much is not really compatible with romantic partner. It's romantic in a way, but he won't be able to respect her as a powerful woman in her own right, eventually, or at least not feel it in a thrilling way. Or something -- I feel like I'm not describing this well, but something like that.
So - the first point is probably easier to address. Books that show the complexities and power of depression or suicidality would probably be helpful. If her problems are serious, she deserves a professional, and time to address them. If he continues to "treat" her as an amateur -- he's not taking them as seriously as he should, maybe.
posted by amtho at 9:44 PM on August 6, 2019 [9 favorites]
I am so sorry that you are in this situation.
The relationship you describe is not merely unhealthy. Threatening suicide if a partner leaves is emotional abuse. Do whatever you can to persuade Alex to see a counselor or call a relationship abuse hotline. It sounds like you'll want to get the whole family on the same page and lay out the situation as clearly as possible.
I googled a bit and the best informational links I could find were these two. Hopefully another commenter can offer more resources.
posted by YoloMortemPeccatoris at 10:00 PM on August 6, 2019 [4 favorites]
The relationship you describe is not merely unhealthy. Threatening suicide if a partner leaves is emotional abuse. Do whatever you can to persuade Alex to see a counselor or call a relationship abuse hotline. It sounds like you'll want to get the whole family on the same page and lay out the situation as clearly as possible.
I googled a bit and the best informational links I could find were these two. Hopefully another commenter can offer more resources.
posted by YoloMortemPeccatoris at 10:00 PM on August 6, 2019 [4 favorites]
Alex needs to realize that he’s not doing her any favors by standing in as a therapist for her when he’s untrained an unable to properly help her while she’s in crisis. It’s easier for her to lean on him than it is for her to do what it’s going to take to get better. She needs a trained therapist and/or psychiatrist. If she’s threatening suicide, she needs real help that Alex, despite his good intentions, cannot provide. Would he be able to see that he’s contributing to her illness if it’s framed that way? He’s no hero if he’s the one that’s inadvertently standing in the way of her getting proper professional help.
posted by quince at 10:17 PM on August 6, 2019 [6 favorites]
posted by quince at 10:17 PM on August 6, 2019 [6 favorites]
Alex is youngish? This is not a healthy relationship because the dynamics are terrible but the intense feelings and the drama and the superhero rush of being wanted and needed is really, really heady. Especially if you are a young person who hasn't got a lot of control and success in other parts of your life.
What helped my kids in similar situations was a) Not Judging the Partner - they broke up and reconciled over and over with that person and until it was super-over, badmouthing them was a wrong move because it made us the enemy. Be neutral, even though it kills you. Do not get sucked into their drama, do not editorialise, just offer very practical neutral advice. Alex will be miserable and mad at her on Monday, love her on Tuesday, and remember that you said she was a bitch on Monday. Don't do that.
b) Get Alex a counsellor. If he won't go to a counsellor himself, go to family counselling. Sign him up for seven cups of tea to talk about his relationship. Or give him a printed list of phone numbers for phone counselling or online or text counselling services locally appropriate to his age. If he's at school (and esp. if he's a minor), push him to talk to the school counselling service. Say "hey relationship skills HELP both of you." Don't sell this as "this will help you leave her" but "this will help both of you".
c) Buy relationship self-help books, especially ones for teens. Sign up to youtube channels for relationship advice. Watch and read them with them. For one of my kids it was I think the 5 languages book, another kid was all about some Australian youtube channel guy who did simple relationship advice. I pre-screened it to see that the advice wasn't sexist/pick-up artist crud. Having a pile of relationship-advice graphic novels, books and then forwarding youtube links - helped eventually break up two godawful partners of their own choosing when they went "oh, wait that behaviour IS bad"
d) encourage other friends and interests. Keep Alex involved with other friends and interests, even if that means you pay for pizza night at your house for his gamer friends, you guys call up cousins and go out for mandatory family fun weekend - do stuff that makes his social support system big and strong. Make sure he isn't isolated and that he has other relationships in his life to compare this one in his head so when his girlfriend says something gaslighting to him, his brain can fight back with healthy messages.
e) If you can deal with it, have her in your home for hanging out. It was way harder for the horrible partners to be mean when they were at our house among the normal rhythm of things because it was so obvious that we were just being chill and it deflated the whole "secret isolated Romeo&Juliet" drama. They couldn't accuse us of being unwelcoming and forbidding and they ended up looking like assholes.
f) I would sit down with Alex and go over a safety plan for his girlfriend's suicide threats. That's hugely stressful for anyone to deal with. Even if they're manipulative, if they're coming from a teenager (less than 20ish), they're a desperate cry for attention. She should have one with her therapist, but if she doesn't have family to help her, letting Alex have a safety plan that he can turn to in a crisis and that he knows he has his family to help with will take a huge weight off his back. A safety plan is basically a list of what to do specifically if someone makes a suicide threat, discussed in advance, and then you can carry it out when the threat is made: example.
Good luck. Dealing with loved ones in crappy relationships is so hard. I am into week two of being super-sad over something related with one of my kids and it is just - arrr! Why do they do such stupid stuff when everyone around them can see how stupid it is? And then I remember that I was married to a complete asshole for two decades who started our romantic relationship by choking me, so I think we gotta cut each other some slack - the heart is a fucking idiot.
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 10:22 PM on August 6, 2019 [52 favorites]
What helped my kids in similar situations was a) Not Judging the Partner - they broke up and reconciled over and over with that person and until it was super-over, badmouthing them was a wrong move because it made us the enemy. Be neutral, even though it kills you. Do not get sucked into their drama, do not editorialise, just offer very practical neutral advice. Alex will be miserable and mad at her on Monday, love her on Tuesday, and remember that you said she was a bitch on Monday. Don't do that.
b) Get Alex a counsellor. If he won't go to a counsellor himself, go to family counselling. Sign him up for seven cups of tea to talk about his relationship. Or give him a printed list of phone numbers for phone counselling or online or text counselling services locally appropriate to his age. If he's at school (and esp. if he's a minor), push him to talk to the school counselling service. Say "hey relationship skills HELP both of you." Don't sell this as "this will help you leave her" but "this will help both of you".
c) Buy relationship self-help books, especially ones for teens. Sign up to youtube channels for relationship advice. Watch and read them with them. For one of my kids it was I think the 5 languages book, another kid was all about some Australian youtube channel guy who did simple relationship advice. I pre-screened it to see that the advice wasn't sexist/pick-up artist crud. Having a pile of relationship-advice graphic novels, books and then forwarding youtube links - helped eventually break up two godawful partners of their own choosing when they went "oh, wait that behaviour IS bad"
d) encourage other friends and interests. Keep Alex involved with other friends and interests, even if that means you pay for pizza night at your house for his gamer friends, you guys call up cousins and go out for mandatory family fun weekend - do stuff that makes his social support system big and strong. Make sure he isn't isolated and that he has other relationships in his life to compare this one in his head so when his girlfriend says something gaslighting to him, his brain can fight back with healthy messages.
e) If you can deal with it, have her in your home for hanging out. It was way harder for the horrible partners to be mean when they were at our house among the normal rhythm of things because it was so obvious that we were just being chill and it deflated the whole "secret isolated Romeo&Juliet" drama. They couldn't accuse us of being unwelcoming and forbidding and they ended up looking like assholes.
f) I would sit down with Alex and go over a safety plan for his girlfriend's suicide threats. That's hugely stressful for anyone to deal with. Even if they're manipulative, if they're coming from a teenager (less than 20ish), they're a desperate cry for attention. She should have one with her therapist, but if she doesn't have family to help her, letting Alex have a safety plan that he can turn to in a crisis and that he knows he has his family to help with will take a huge weight off his back. A safety plan is basically a list of what to do specifically if someone makes a suicide threat, discussed in advance, and then you can carry it out when the threat is made: example.
Good luck. Dealing with loved ones in crappy relationships is so hard. I am into week two of being super-sad over something related with one of my kids and it is just - arrr! Why do they do such stupid stuff when everyone around them can see how stupid it is? And then I remember that I was married to a complete asshole for two decades who started our romantic relationship by choking me, so I think we gotta cut each other some slack - the heart is a fucking idiot.
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 10:22 PM on August 6, 2019 [52 favorites]
Scarleteen is a q and a website by Planned Parenthood with topics on sexuality but also healthy relationships. Maybe some of the articles would be helpful even if he’s not a teen.
posted by Waiting for Pierce Inverarity at 3:48 AM on August 7, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by Waiting for Pierce Inverarity at 3:48 AM on August 7, 2019 [3 favorites]
I’d strongly advise against framing this in terms of “young women manipulating men” as in your title, especially considering today’s social climate. (And maybe completely avoid YouTube?) It’s a short hop from “my girlfriend is emotionally manipulative and abusive” to “women are emotionally manipulative and abusive,” especially when you’re young and vulnerable and on the edge of heartbreak. His girlfriend’s behavior is harmful, absolutely, but it’s the sort of thing people of all genders and ages do.
And it’s easy for young people to learn the wrong lesson from a bad experience, and for that to color their experiences for years and end up making things worse and harder to fix, know what I mean?
I agree with the advice to find a therapist for Alex. And the safety plan idea is good too; it’ll help Alex navigate her threats and it can get her closer to seeking professional help instead of using him.
posted by Metroid Baby at 4:31 AM on August 7, 2019 [31 favorites]
And it’s easy for young people to learn the wrong lesson from a bad experience, and for that to color their experiences for years and end up making things worse and harder to fix, know what I mean?
I agree with the advice to find a therapist for Alex. And the safety plan idea is good too; it’ll help Alex navigate her threats and it can get her closer to seeking professional help instead of using him.
posted by Metroid Baby at 4:31 AM on August 7, 2019 [31 favorites]
Response by poster: Update: Thanks so much to everyone for your answers! My brother's girlfriend is seeing a therapist already. Aside from this problem, she is a nice and smart person. She is ambitious, strong and motivated when it comes to other areas of her life. I feel that she can work on her behavior and become a better partner if she wanted to. The problem is that since my brother keeps encouraging her manipulative behavior she will continue to act the way she does.
posted by ivanka at 4:37 AM on August 7, 2019
posted by ivanka at 4:37 AM on August 7, 2019
One thing you could do is warn Alex that he is an amateur without training trying to do the job of a therapist with a team of professionals as back-up. If he screws up the consequences are too high. If he over sleeps some morning she could kill herself. If he catches the flu and is too groggy to respond properly she could kill herself. If he goes out to the store to buy a new pair of pants she could kill herself...
Maybe pointing out that anyone threatening suicide has a genuine life-threatening illness and he wouldn't try to do surgery on his friend if she had a life threatening illness within reach of a hospital and paramedics, why would he stay in this circle for anything more than the ability to dial 911 and get her to professional care as fast as possible. It's irresponsible for an ordinary person to evaluate someone else's suicide risk. The responsible thing for him to do is get her into the care of people who have a pharmacological tool kit and and many possible things they could do to help which he doesn't have.
posted by Jane the Brown at 4:49 AM on August 7, 2019
Maybe pointing out that anyone threatening suicide has a genuine life-threatening illness and he wouldn't try to do surgery on his friend if she had a life threatening illness within reach of a hospital and paramedics, why would he stay in this circle for anything more than the ability to dial 911 and get her to professional care as fast as possible. It's irresponsible for an ordinary person to evaluate someone else's suicide risk. The responsible thing for him to do is get her into the care of people who have a pharmacological tool kit and and many possible things they could do to help which he doesn't have.
posted by Jane the Brown at 4:49 AM on August 7, 2019
Best answer: Every time she threatens suicide or has a crisis, she needs to be taken to emerg for her own protection. If he started doing that he wouldn't be at risk for devastating guilt if she successfully self harms, and very likely she would dial back that behaviour right away. It would also make her feel heard in a way that his listening and making encouraging sounds does not.
posted by Jane the Brown at 4:52 AM on August 7, 2019 [9 favorites]
posted by Jane the Brown at 4:52 AM on August 7, 2019 [9 favorites]
edit: I'm jumping way back to the top because there is something you might be able to show him that... could help. It's the documentary on HBO recently about the boyfriend who committed suicide while the girlfriend encouraged him via text. It will show an unhealthy attachment and is very sad. Mental health is no joke. I still don't think this is the answer, but you will be much more likely to get him to watch something and you can watch it with him than read a whole book.
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There's a reason we're not throwing book recommendations at you. It won't work. There's a very recent question on here about a dad who gave his child a book and hoped they'd read and talk about it (or write an essay) and the reaction was... not good. If we did a straw poll of people on AskMe who answer/read questions regularly on how well convincing someone they need to do something works... I feel fairly confident that no one would say that is a successful method.
So we're answering your actual question which is "How do I stop Alex from continuing in this abusive cycle?" I'd like to take a page from a man who deradicalizes white nationalists, weird detour I know, but here's what he says about how he does it and this does apply to all human attachment.
Bayoumy: What are some of the things that prompt these people to question their beliefs?
Picciolini: Certainly not facts. It’s very emotional. I try to take them through an emotional journey where they come to the conclusion that they’ve changed, and it’s not me telling them that they’ve changed. What I’ve found least effective is me telling them that they’re wrong, or me telling them that they need to think a certain way. Typically these people are pretty idealistic, although they’re lost, typically pretty bruised emotionally, and they have very low self-esteem.
If you're not in an antagonistic "You WILL listen to me." cycle right now with Alex, could you start a conversation about how he feels during her long tirades? Just let him talk and prompt gently with open-ended questions. You can talk about how that would make you feel. "It would scare me if someone I loved said I could cause their suicide." is what I'm thinking right now! But I think if you let him talk, he will come out and realize some things. Antagonism us vs. them will not solve this problem. A book won't solve the problem. Processing his emotions will maybe solve it.
Alex should probably see a therapist himself. This might superficially make him feel good, but it's clearly not healthy and I bet it's weighing on him a lot more than people realize somewhere inside him even if he isn't aware of it. Being told you have a life directly in your hands is not an okay burden for a young adult.
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 6:41 AM on August 7, 2019 [4 favorites]
---
There's a reason we're not throwing book recommendations at you. It won't work. There's a very recent question on here about a dad who gave his child a book and hoped they'd read and talk about it (or write an essay) and the reaction was... not good. If we did a straw poll of people on AskMe who answer/read questions regularly on how well convincing someone they need to do something works... I feel fairly confident that no one would say that is a successful method.
So we're answering your actual question which is "How do I stop Alex from continuing in this abusive cycle?" I'd like to take a page from a man who deradicalizes white nationalists, weird detour I know, but here's what he says about how he does it and this does apply to all human attachment.
Bayoumy: What are some of the things that prompt these people to question their beliefs?
Picciolini: Certainly not facts. It’s very emotional. I try to take them through an emotional journey where they come to the conclusion that they’ve changed, and it’s not me telling them that they’ve changed. What I’ve found least effective is me telling them that they’re wrong, or me telling them that they need to think a certain way. Typically these people are pretty idealistic, although they’re lost, typically pretty bruised emotionally, and they have very low self-esteem.
If you're not in an antagonistic "You WILL listen to me." cycle right now with Alex, could you start a conversation about how he feels during her long tirades? Just let him talk and prompt gently with open-ended questions. You can talk about how that would make you feel. "It would scare me if someone I loved said I could cause their suicide." is what I'm thinking right now! But I think if you let him talk, he will come out and realize some things. Antagonism us vs. them will not solve this problem. A book won't solve the problem. Processing his emotions will maybe solve it.
Alex should probably see a therapist himself. This might superficially make him feel good, but it's clearly not healthy and I bet it's weighing on him a lot more than people realize somewhere inside him even if he isn't aware of it. Being told you have a life directly in your hands is not an okay burden for a young adult.
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 6:41 AM on August 7, 2019 [4 favorites]
Alex loves her and feels good about helping her to cope with her psychological problems, he feels like a superman.
For your reading list, try him on Theodore Sturgeon's "Bright Segment."
In the meanwhile, try getting him to recognize that the power-thrill he gets when he plays Big Savior is A. unhealthy, unwholesome, and deeply corrupt; and B. does not help her, but harms her. If he loves her more than he loves his own good feelings, B. might have some impact.
posted by queenofbithynia at 6:45 AM on August 7, 2019 [2 favorites]
For your reading list, try him on Theodore Sturgeon's "Bright Segment."
In the meanwhile, try getting him to recognize that the power-thrill he gets when he plays Big Savior is A. unhealthy, unwholesome, and deeply corrupt; and B. does not help her, but harms her. If he loves her more than he loves his own good feelings, B. might have some impact.
posted by queenofbithynia at 6:45 AM on August 7, 2019 [2 favorites]
Issendai: How to Keep Someone With You Forever
posted by Little Dawn at 7:14 AM on August 7, 2019 [8 favorites]
posted by Little Dawn at 7:14 AM on August 7, 2019 [8 favorites]
Tell him that if they get married and she doesn't figure out now to care for herself he'll be doing this work for the rest of his life before getting burned out in early middle age, and have nothing left to give when all the other shit that happens to people, happens to them.
sorry, books - maybe look for something on "caregiver burnout" so he'll know what to look forward to
posted by turkeybrain at 7:15 AM on August 7, 2019 [1 favorite]
sorry, books - maybe look for something on "caregiver burnout" so he'll know what to look forward to
posted by turkeybrain at 7:15 AM on August 7, 2019 [1 favorite]
You mention codependency. If I were going to give someone in your brother's position a book, it would be about that. But not to demonstrate there is something wrong with the person he is dating; rather, to suggest that this relationship pattern is quite common, that there are reasons why people keep getting involved in stuff like this and that there are ways to avoid it.
This person seems to be spending time in your house or at least, the relationship is taking a toll on all of you. You get to have boundaries, you know? "Brother, your relationship is your business but I don't want to be around it/hear about it all day."
posted by BibiRose at 7:17 AM on August 7, 2019 [3 favorites]
This person seems to be spending time in your house or at least, the relationship is taking a toll on all of you. You get to have boundaries, you know? "Brother, your relationship is your business but I don't want to be around it/hear about it all day."
posted by BibiRose at 7:17 AM on August 7, 2019 [3 favorites]
A therapist once told me that people who threaten suicide to manipulate their partners almost never end up actually committing suicide.
I have no idea if that's true, but it was an enormously helpful thing for me to hear at the time.
Unasked-for advice from family members -- especially in the form of "read this book, I spent fifteen minutes on Amazon and I'm pretty sure this total stranger is an expert on your life problems" -- was counterproductive to say the least. You mention shared housing though, and if there's anything you can do to stop enabling this situation, now is the time to do it.
Aside from this problem, she is a nice and smart person. She is ambitious, strong and motivated when it comes to other areas of her life. I feel that she can work on her behavior and become a better partner if she wanted to.
Every abuser has positive qualities that they use to draw others in and keep them attached.
posted by prize bull octorok at 8:34 AM on August 7, 2019
I have no idea if that's true, but it was an enormously helpful thing for me to hear at the time.
Unasked-for advice from family members -- especially in the form of "read this book, I spent fifteen minutes on Amazon and I'm pretty sure this total stranger is an expert on your life problems" -- was counterproductive to say the least. You mention shared housing though, and if there's anything you can do to stop enabling this situation, now is the time to do it.
Aside from this problem, she is a nice and smart person. She is ambitious, strong and motivated when it comes to other areas of her life. I feel that she can work on her behavior and become a better partner if she wanted to.
Every abuser has positive qualities that they use to draw others in and keep them attached.
posted by prize bull octorok at 8:34 AM on August 7, 2019
My brother's girlfriend is seeing a therapist already.
Maybe you could compare it to the situation where someone is drowning—Alex’s girlfriend is not being manipulative, she’s thrashing around like a drowning person struggling with her mental health problems. The therapist is like a lifeguard who is trained in how to rescue a drowning person. Alex is in the pool between the girlfriend and the therapist/lifeguard, and because the girlfriend is desperately struggling, all she can think to do is grab onto Alex and keep her head above water. But Alex needs to move himself out of the way so the therapist can do their job and rescue the girlfriend in a trained professional manner, and so Alex doesn’t accidentally get swamped and drown himself.
posted by sallybrown at 8:58 AM on August 7, 2019 [4 favorites]
Maybe you could compare it to the situation where someone is drowning—Alex’s girlfriend is not being manipulative, she’s thrashing around like a drowning person struggling with her mental health problems. The therapist is like a lifeguard who is trained in how to rescue a drowning person. Alex is in the pool between the girlfriend and the therapist/lifeguard, and because the girlfriend is desperately struggling, all she can think to do is grab onto Alex and keep her head above water. But Alex needs to move himself out of the way so the therapist can do their job and rescue the girlfriend in a trained professional manner, and so Alex doesn’t accidentally get swamped and drown himself.
posted by sallybrown at 8:58 AM on August 7, 2019 [4 favorites]
As long as he's the hero of the situation he won't be changing a thing. What he needs to understand is that he is hurting her by indulging her regular crises, and I dare say her therapist would agree. The heroic way of dealing with this situation is to refer her to the professional she is already engaged with.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 1:00 PM on August 7, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 1:00 PM on August 7, 2019 [3 favorites]
OP, we cannot control other people. You have told your brother what you have told him, and now the best thing you can do is to establish whatever boundaries you need to establish in order to function in a healthy way yourself with your brother and his girlfriend.
That may include saying things such as, brother I love you but I cannot hear more about your gf’s problems. It may include leaving your home to go for a nice walk if everyone else at home is busy having drama around the girlfriend. When my kid was in trouble, I realized that the best thing I could do for her was to model how to be a healthy adult.
The problem was that I had no idea how to be a healthy adult. But I started going to Al-Anon meetings and I learned about setting healthy boundaries for myself. Captain Awkward is also a wonderful resource to learn how to set appropriate boundaries.
You cannot control your brother and you cannot control any other siblings you may have and you cannot control your parents and you cannot control anyone’s girlfriend. But you can control how to respond to these different people in a way that is good for you. And you can learn how to take care of yourself if you don’t know how to do that yet.
Focus on showing your brother how to get healthy by modeling that yourself and you will be doing good things for the entire household. Of course, your family may not like it at first. People who are bad at boundaries don’t like it when other people become good at boundaries. But then they catch on, and things often get better. Good luck!
posted by Bella Donna at 2:52 PM on August 7, 2019 [2 favorites]
That may include saying things such as, brother I love you but I cannot hear more about your gf’s problems. It may include leaving your home to go for a nice walk if everyone else at home is busy having drama around the girlfriend. When my kid was in trouble, I realized that the best thing I could do for her was to model how to be a healthy adult.
The problem was that I had no idea how to be a healthy adult. But I started going to Al-Anon meetings and I learned about setting healthy boundaries for myself. Captain Awkward is also a wonderful resource to learn how to set appropriate boundaries.
You cannot control your brother and you cannot control any other siblings you may have and you cannot control your parents and you cannot control anyone’s girlfriend. But you can control how to respond to these different people in a way that is good for you. And you can learn how to take care of yourself if you don’t know how to do that yet.
Focus on showing your brother how to get healthy by modeling that yourself and you will be doing good things for the entire household. Of course, your family may not like it at first. People who are bad at boundaries don’t like it when other people become good at boundaries. But then they catch on, and things often get better. Good luck!
posted by Bella Donna at 2:52 PM on August 7, 2019 [2 favorites]
I strongly agree with having Alex see a therapist. I have been in these kind of relationships (in a situation similar to Alex) and it took therapy to really untangle what was going on and make healthier choices.
I also want to note that while it may be true that people who threaten suicide like this usually don't actually do it, it is definitely not true all the time (one of my closest friends had an ex that did that all the time, and after the breakup he actually did commit suicide). Which of course is still not the fault of the other person in the relationship, but its exactly why therapy is helpful for Alex even if the girlfriend cannot be persuaded to go (both to talk about healthy ways to deal with her current threats and to have a resource should the worst happen).
posted by thefoxgod at 7:40 PM on August 7, 2019
I also want to note that while it may be true that people who threaten suicide like this usually don't actually do it, it is definitely not true all the time (one of my closest friends had an ex that did that all the time, and after the breakup he actually did commit suicide). Which of course is still not the fault of the other person in the relationship, but its exactly why therapy is helpful for Alex even if the girlfriend cannot be persuaded to go (both to talk about healthy ways to deal with her current threats and to have a resource should the worst happen).
posted by thefoxgod at 7:40 PM on August 7, 2019
Recognizing that you can’t make your brother do anything and he can’t make his girlfriend do anything, I think if you could give him one piece of actionable advice, it’s that someone threatening to kill themselves is an emergency and in emergencies, you call 911. And I think you demonstrate this yourself by calling 911 if you learn that his girlfriend is threatening her life. Whether it’s advice he ends up using with his girlfriend or in college or as a young adult, I think that’s a good rule of thumb.
posted by kat518 at 8:22 PM on August 7, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by kat518 at 8:22 PM on August 7, 2019 [1 favorite]
Non violent communication?
Google and practice a bit for best results but I find it to be magic in situations like these.
Gotta spend some time honing in on *exactly* what you want here. What you *need*.
Really practice it a few times. You don’t want to botch the actual conversation, when it happens, and the script doesn’t come naturally.
But if Alex is basically reasonable and you exclude anything that might be construed as judgement, it should open the dialogue a bit. In a different way than books might.
posted by OlivesAndTurkishCoffee at 8:28 PM on August 7, 2019
Google and practice a bit for best results but I find it to be magic in situations like these.
Gotta spend some time honing in on *exactly* what you want here. What you *need*.
Really practice it a few times. You don’t want to botch the actual conversation, when it happens, and the script doesn’t come naturally.
But if Alex is basically reasonable and you exclude anything that might be construed as judgement, it should open the dialogue a bit. In a different way than books might.
posted by OlivesAndTurkishCoffee at 8:28 PM on August 7, 2019
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posted by Zephyrial at 9:43 PM on August 6, 2019 [6 favorites]