Said I'd Move for Relationship; Changed Mind
May 20, 2019 8:45 AM Subscribe
Hi. Just looking for some feedback, TIA. When my BF and I got together 3 years ago, he lived by the beach in Fla, I lived in NYC (he's from here originally). Long-distance was great for a while but at 40 and 42, we decided to have a child before time ran out. (We'd been together for 2 years ten years ago also, so had history.) While trying for a baby he explained he did not want to leave Fla, where his job is based so I said I'd move there. My best friend had just moved to Cali for a guy, and it was winter in NYC so it seemed like a good idea. While pregnant, we started fighting a lot. I went to visit him in Fla and we explored some neighborhoods and I hated it and also being pregnant made me feel REALLY attached to my mom & family (his mom/bro/niece are also in NYC area) and basically I changed my mind about wanting to move there. I obviously felt horrible and explained that to him in the hopes he would decide to relocate back in NYC.
Our daughter is now 15 months and we're both madly in love with her. We've stayed together as bf/gf but it's been tough. We've been in Fla for 5 months out of her life, 2 mos during maternity leave, 3 months this winter when I went freelance for work.
The rest of the time he's up north with me in NYC, miserable & stressed about working remotely (which he's not really allowed to do as much as he does), but doing it for our daughter. We haven't been intimate in two years and he's not affectionate or loving. He wouldn't be that affectionate even if happy, but still, it's nothing now.
I've agonized over the guilt of changing my mind. He's accused me of being a used car salesman, using him to get pregnant, not caring about him, etc.
He's inflexible about relocating here even though our families are here & we have a nice life with daycare, our kid-friendly neighborhood, etc.
I've asked if he'll commit to relationship and be affectionate/intimate if we DO move to Fla even though I don't want to and he can't commit, he doesn't know. He can't forgive me for saying I'd move & changing my mind.
As it stands, we're thinking we'll break up and he'll go back to Fla and come back to see baby as often as he can. But that's a sad nightmare for him and of course me.
Do I need to suck it up, let go of life I love here for my child and move to Fla, even if it's for a BF who's a great dad but iffy about me? Is that the right thing to do because I said I would go originally, and it's only fair? Or is it OK that I believe my son would have a better life here for a multitude of reasons?
Our daughter is now 15 months and we're both madly in love with her. We've stayed together as bf/gf but it's been tough. We've been in Fla for 5 months out of her life, 2 mos during maternity leave, 3 months this winter when I went freelance for work.
The rest of the time he's up north with me in NYC, miserable & stressed about working remotely (which he's not really allowed to do as much as he does), but doing it for our daughter. We haven't been intimate in two years and he's not affectionate or loving. He wouldn't be that affectionate even if happy, but still, it's nothing now.
I've agonized over the guilt of changing my mind. He's accused me of being a used car salesman, using him to get pregnant, not caring about him, etc.
He's inflexible about relocating here even though our families are here & we have a nice life with daycare, our kid-friendly neighborhood, etc.
I've asked if he'll commit to relationship and be affectionate/intimate if we DO move to Fla even though I don't want to and he can't commit, he doesn't know. He can't forgive me for saying I'd move & changing my mind.
As it stands, we're thinking we'll break up and he'll go back to Fla and come back to see baby as often as he can. But that's a sad nightmare for him and of course me.
Do I need to suck it up, let go of life I love here for my child and move to Fla, even if it's for a BF who's a great dad but iffy about me? Is that the right thing to do because I said I would go originally, and it's only fair? Or is it OK that I believe my son would have a better life here for a multitude of reasons?
This post was deleted for the following reason: poster's request -- LobsterMitten
Do what provides your child the most harmonious upbringing possible. In this case that looks like this:
As it stands, we're thinking we'll break up and he'll go back to Fla and come back to see baby as often as he can.
That means your child has a loving parent and extended family most of the time, and another loving parent when he can be in NY and when she can visit him in FL. And it means mom isn't miserable in an unloving relationship and dad isn't miserable away from his livelihood and the life he's made for himself.
Two self-assured, positive, loving parents who are separate but can work well together on their child's behalf is an exponentially better relationship model for your child than two parents who carry huge resentments and aren't affectionate.
But that's a sad nightmare for him and of course me.
In the short term yes, but it frees you both up to find more compatible mates later. And more importantly, it wouldn't be a sad nightmare for your daughter.
posted by headnsouth at 8:55 AM on May 20, 2019 [68 favorites]
As it stands, we're thinking we'll break up and he'll go back to Fla and come back to see baby as often as he can.
That means your child has a loving parent and extended family most of the time, and another loving parent when he can be in NY and when she can visit him in FL. And it means mom isn't miserable in an unloving relationship and dad isn't miserable away from his livelihood and the life he's made for himself.
Two self-assured, positive, loving parents who are separate but can work well together on their child's behalf is an exponentially better relationship model for your child than two parents who carry huge resentments and aren't affectionate.
But that's a sad nightmare for him and of course me.
In the short term yes, but it frees you both up to find more compatible mates later. And more importantly, it wouldn't be a sad nightmare for your daughter.
posted by headnsouth at 8:55 AM on May 20, 2019 [68 favorites]
I feel bad for your boyfriend but it sounds like you two are able to at least talk. Yes, for him this is a sad nightmare. But these things happen and you have to do what’s best for everyone as a whole. We have also a sad nightmare situation- We were living together as a family in a culturally vibrant cosmopolitan city but we’re completely isolated with no family. My children have sensory issues and special needs and the big city and all it’s stimulation was too much and me and the kids ended up going to our house in his hometown where we could give them a better chance at a relaxed and quiet preschool years... it’s an 8 hour plus journey for him almost every weekend. His job is not flexible but we do have an end point in a couple years and we do desire to be together. He’s had to come to terms with it but it wasn’t easy. People have constantly had to tell him that life’s not a fairytale and you have to put the kids first. It it’s hard to separate as a family and have the poor father schlepping a million miles to see his children- but- life’s not a fairytale and this shall all too pass.
posted by catspajammies at 9:11 AM on May 20, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by catspajammies at 9:11 AM on May 20, 2019 [1 favorite]
Unless his job is a once in a lifetime opportunity that is tied into that specific location in florida (like being mayor or coach of a major league team), I don’t see just the two options you have presented. He could choose to relocate back to being close to his toddler. That he is planning on prioritizing his job over his child tells you how the relationship would work out in a few years when something else came up that made him make a hard decision. You were wise not to move to Florida in the midst of pregnancy and fighting, and to remain with extensive supports (unless my math is wrong you were also both trying to get pregnant when only a few months into your relationship - which is far too early to make major, potentially financially devastating decisions like moving across the country, which again in my mind absolves you of “promises” made in the heat of limerance).
posted by saucysault at 9:15 AM on May 20, 2019 [25 favorites]
posted by saucysault at 9:15 AM on May 20, 2019 [25 favorites]
As it stands, we're thinking we'll break up and he'll go back to Fla and come back to see baby as often as he can.
It kind of sounds like you are already broken up. You note that he's not affectionate or loving, and even worse, he's accused you of being a used car salesman, using him to get pregnant, not caring about him, etc. This sounds like more than feeling 'iffy' about you, and like it's minimizing how awful the current situation is, but your instincts seem to be on the right track.
You have the right to do what is best for you and your child, and being miserable in Florida, isolated from your support system, it sounds like a situation that would only get worse. If he was able to give you the emotional support that you deserve, then this would be a different Ask, i.e. trying to weigh his wonderfulness versus the wonderfulness of your family. But it isn't.
He can't forgive me for saying I'd move & changing my mind.
You may also want to seek some therapy to help cope with this. I feel so sad for you that someone could treat you like this, but ThereIsHelp.
posted by Little Dawn at 9:17 AM on May 20, 2019 [15 favorites]
It kind of sounds like you are already broken up. You note that he's not affectionate or loving, and even worse, he's accused you of being a used car salesman, using him to get pregnant, not caring about him, etc. This sounds like more than feeling 'iffy' about you, and like it's minimizing how awful the current situation is, but your instincts seem to be on the right track.
You have the right to do what is best for you and your child, and being miserable in Florida, isolated from your support system, it sounds like a situation that would only get worse. If he was able to give you the emotional support that you deserve, then this would be a different Ask, i.e. trying to weigh his wonderfulness versus the wonderfulness of your family. But it isn't.
He can't forgive me for saying I'd move & changing my mind.
You may also want to seek some therapy to help cope with this. I feel so sad for you that someone could treat you like this, but ThereIsHelp.
posted by Little Dawn at 9:17 AM on May 20, 2019 [15 favorites]
Response by poster: ONE MORE NOTE: I should add that before we got pregnant he made a BIG thing about how he never ever wanted to move back home to NYC area. He brings that up often — that he laid everything out on the table BEFORE we went further... We can't have a conversation without him pointing this out. So I said, "you don't have to, I'll move!" and then, well, things changed. And in fairness I may not have completely thought it through before saying it — it sounded feasible and doable at the time, and like the right thing to do. I just figured it would all work out. As much as I meant I'd move, I also thought he'd come around and want to live up north eventually anyway. I am a wishful thinking type, he's a realist.
posted by LibraNYC at 9:33 AM on May 20, 2019
posted by LibraNYC at 9:33 AM on May 20, 2019
I do think your promise to move to Florida for his work is meaningful, especially if his work can't easily move to NYC (if he could easily move I think you would have said that). You knew about your friends, family, and neighborhood before you made the promise to move to Florida, so I just don't see how "things changed" other than, when push came to shove, you were unwilling to live up to the promises you made.
I briefly lived in Florida and I hated it, so I hear you about giving Florida a try and a pass. But since you've only lived there two months here, three months there, I don't think you've given it the old college try yet. Would you be willing to spend a full 12 months in Florida and see how you like it?
posted by crazy with stars at 9:37 AM on May 20, 2019 [12 favorites]
I briefly lived in Florida and I hated it, so I hear you about giving Florida a try and a pass. But since you've only lived there two months here, three months there, I don't think you've given it the old college try yet. Would you be willing to spend a full 12 months in Florida and see how you like it?
posted by crazy with stars at 9:37 AM on May 20, 2019 [12 favorites]
He's inflexible about relocating here even though our families are here & we have a nice life with daycare, our kid-friendly neighborhood, etc.
No matter what you see as the benefits, you cannot reasonably call him inflexible for not wanting to go along with a complete change of life plans because you changed your mind about something you had agreed to.
posted by Smearcase at 9:47 AM on May 20, 2019 [47 favorites]
No matter what you see as the benefits, you cannot reasonably call him inflexible for not wanting to go along with a complete change of life plans because you changed your mind about something you had agreed to.
posted by Smearcase at 9:47 AM on May 20, 2019 [47 favorites]
I don't think he's unreasonable or "inflexible" to be upset that you changed your mind about a commitment you made, knowing it was so important to him.
But this:
He's accused me of being a used car salesman, using him to get pregnant, not caring about him, etc.
This is a man with a bad character. Perhaps more importantly, someone who doesn't love you. This relationship has no future. Break up with him and let him get back to his FL life. I wouldn't build castles on his making long-term efforts to see his daughter, though; if he does, great, but, seriously, start thinking of yourself as a single parent and plan accordingly.
posted by praemunire at 10:10 AM on May 20, 2019 [27 favorites]
But this:
He's accused me of being a used car salesman, using him to get pregnant, not caring about him, etc.
This is a man with a bad character. Perhaps more importantly, someone who doesn't love you. This relationship has no future. Break up with him and let him get back to his FL life. I wouldn't build castles on his making long-term efforts to see his daughter, though; if he does, great, but, seriously, start thinking of yourself as a single parent and plan accordingly.
posted by praemunire at 10:10 AM on May 20, 2019 [27 favorites]
You're allowed to change your mind; this is a thing that people who are individuals and have agency are entitled to do.
He's allowed to stick to his original plan, ditto.
It sucks sometimes when people don't agree on something. But a thing that adults do is cope, strategise, and deal with it. Neither of you are wrong, neither of you are bad , it's just sometimes people don't see eye to eye, and you both gotta make the best of it.
posted by seanmpuckett at 10:30 AM on May 20, 2019 [21 favorites]
He's allowed to stick to his original plan, ditto.
It sucks sometimes when people don't agree on something. But a thing that adults do is cope, strategise, and deal with it. Neither of you are wrong, neither of you are bad , it's just sometimes people don't see eye to eye, and you both gotta make the best of it.
posted by seanmpuckett at 10:30 AM on May 20, 2019 [21 favorites]
I am favoriting headnsouth and Little Dawn's answers above a million times over. Don't go.
I have lived this. DO. NOT. GO.
posted by somanyamys at 10:38 AM on May 20, 2019 [18 favorites]
I have lived this. DO. NOT. GO.
posted by somanyamys at 10:38 AM on May 20, 2019 [18 favorites]
I agree that probably the best case scenario is a child who sees one parent (probably him) occasionally and lives with the other. I agree you should not move and you should break up.
But, I can see why he's upset. He agreed to have a baby on the understanding that you both would be in that child's life on a daily basis, in the area he's said he needs to live in. You really were lying if you didn't take him seriously, and made promises thinking he would change his mind. This doesn't make you a terrible person, but wow, that would hugely upset me in his shoes.
If what he said is typical, then I agree he's bad news. If he's just dealing with the initial shock that now his choices are reversed from what was presented, he might get past that initial response.
posted by warriorqueen at 10:46 AM on May 20, 2019 [9 favorites]
But, I can see why he's upset. He agreed to have a baby on the understanding that you both would be in that child's life on a daily basis, in the area he's said he needs to live in. You really were lying if you didn't take him seriously, and made promises thinking he would change his mind. This doesn't make you a terrible person, but wow, that would hugely upset me in his shoes.
If what he said is typical, then I agree he's bad news. If he's just dealing with the initial shock that now his choices are reversed from what was presented, he might get past that initial response.
posted by warriorqueen at 10:46 AM on May 20, 2019 [9 favorites]
I actually REALLY get why he's mad at you -- you said you'd move with him and then you changed your mind and said you assumed it would "all work out," presumably via his deciding he didn't actually want to do what he told you he specifically wanted to, and had to, do. He DID lay it all out for you and you agreed and now you are reneging, with his kid. Don't get me wrong, it sounds like he's being a real asshole about it at the moment, but you pulled a dick move here yourself.
Having said all that -- you guys are in this shit together now! So why waste any more time here? Nowhere in this post do you mention that you even love him. Break up and make the best of it! Figure out a generous custody schedule, see a lawyer to get your details hammered out, and stop dragging this out for everyone.
posted by Countess Sandwich at 10:50 AM on May 20, 2019 [45 favorites]
Having said all that -- you guys are in this shit together now! So why waste any more time here? Nowhere in this post do you mention that you even love him. Break up and make the best of it! Figure out a generous custody schedule, see a lawyer to get your details hammered out, and stop dragging this out for everyone.
posted by Countess Sandwich at 10:50 AM on May 20, 2019 [45 favorites]
Based on your update it sounds like you and partner were at an impass where you both wanted to advance your relationship and have a child, but neither of you wanted to move. Unfortunately, it doesn’t sound like you were able to address this as a team. He made it clear that he would not compromise; you didn’t believe him when he told you staying in FL was more important to him than your relationship; and neither of you seems to have given much thought to what such a big, unilateral compromise by you would mean for you and your relationship.
Given that foundation, I don’t think it is fair to lay all of this at your feet. Of course it is hard that you changed your mind about moving, but arguably what happened was that you realized that the relationship wasn’t in a place where you felt comfortable making that big a unilateral compromise. And, from what you’ve written, this internet stranger thinks you made the right call. His calling you a used car salesman instead of trying to understand why you’ve changed your mind is a pretty strong indication that he’s not able to be your partner.
So, yes acknowledge that with the benefit of hindsight you realize you shouldn’t have agreed to move when you did, but you now know you were right not to move and it is time to agree on a Plan B that involves compromises that you can both live with long term.
posted by ElizaMain at 10:51 AM on May 20, 2019 [7 favorites]
Given that foundation, I don’t think it is fair to lay all of this at your feet. Of course it is hard that you changed your mind about moving, but arguably what happened was that you realized that the relationship wasn’t in a place where you felt comfortable making that big a unilateral compromise. And, from what you’ve written, this internet stranger thinks you made the right call. His calling you a used car salesman instead of trying to understand why you’ve changed your mind is a pretty strong indication that he’s not able to be your partner.
So, yes acknowledge that with the benefit of hindsight you realize you shouldn’t have agreed to move when you did, but you now know you were right not to move and it is time to agree on a Plan B that involves compromises that you can both live with long term.
posted by ElizaMain at 10:51 AM on May 20, 2019 [7 favorites]
This post kinda frames having extended family nearby as always a net benefit/resource. Depending on some people's family dynamics, being as far away from extended family as possible feels like a much safer place to raise their children.
Which is to say more specifically: both your desires to live where you want to live probably come from the same good place, even if the reality of what that looks like is very different for each of you.
posted by whimsicalnymph at 11:03 AM on May 20, 2019 [2 favorites]
Which is to say more specifically: both your desires to live where you want to live probably come from the same good place, even if the reality of what that looks like is very different for each of you.
posted by whimsicalnymph at 11:03 AM on May 20, 2019 [2 favorites]
Is that the right thing to do because I said I would go originally, and it's only fair? . . . I should add that before we got pregnant he made a BIG thing about how he never ever wanted to move back home to NYC area. He brings that up often — that he laid everything out on the table BEFORE we went further... We can't have a conversation without him pointing this out. So I said, "you don't have to, I'll move!" and then, well, things changed.
Just to address this point—there are some things in life where it’s important for you to stand by a prior agreement, like when you agreed to cover someone’s work shift even though you got a concert ticket at the last second, or if you RSVP’d to a dinner party even though you’d rather be at home. Having a kid, and deciding where to raise your kid, is not one of those things. Having a kid changes your life, your relationship with your partner, and you, in a lot of ways. It’s normal for you to feel bad about this situation or to apologize to him for making an agreement you now don’t want to keep. But you couldn’t have possibly known what life would be like with your kid. He needs to understand that. That agreement about moving was a contract written in a different world. Both of you need to work toward an agreement focusing on the present and the future, not the past.
posted by sallybrown at 11:21 AM on May 20, 2019 [19 favorites]
Just to address this point—there are some things in life where it’s important for you to stand by a prior agreement, like when you agreed to cover someone’s work shift even though you got a concert ticket at the last second, or if you RSVP’d to a dinner party even though you’d rather be at home. Having a kid, and deciding where to raise your kid, is not one of those things. Having a kid changes your life, your relationship with your partner, and you, in a lot of ways. It’s normal for you to feel bad about this situation or to apologize to him for making an agreement you now don’t want to keep. But you couldn’t have possibly known what life would be like with your kid. He needs to understand that. That agreement about moving was a contract written in a different world. Both of you need to work toward an agreement focusing on the present and the future, not the past.
posted by sallybrown at 11:21 AM on May 20, 2019 [19 favorites]
see a lawyer to get your details hammered out
Especially because he's already demonstrated what seems like emotionally abusive conduct (it's one thing to be disappointed in your decision, it's entirely another to continue to insult and demean and accuse you of untrue and horrible things for it) you can review the MeFi Wiki Get a Lawyer page for information and links to resources related to finding an attorney in New York as soon as possible.
In the best case scenario, this will be a low-cost mediated settlement, especially because his pattern of behavior suggests that this will likely not go well for him in court, because the family court is only interested in the best interest of the child, not his sense of control over you and your right to make your own decisions. Back when I practiced family law (and this is not legal advice, YMMV) defendants like this got destroyed in court because they were unable to prioritize their children over their own needs, so I hope you are able to achieve a reasonable settlement.
posted by Little Dawn at 11:49 AM on May 20, 2019 [8 favorites]
Especially because he's already demonstrated what seems like emotionally abusive conduct (it's one thing to be disappointed in your decision, it's entirely another to continue to insult and demean and accuse you of untrue and horrible things for it) you can review the MeFi Wiki Get a Lawyer page for information and links to resources related to finding an attorney in New York as soon as possible.
In the best case scenario, this will be a low-cost mediated settlement, especially because his pattern of behavior suggests that this will likely not go well for him in court, because the family court is only interested in the best interest of the child, not his sense of control over you and your right to make your own decisions. Back when I practiced family law (and this is not legal advice, YMMV) defendants like this got destroyed in court because they were unable to prioritize their children over their own needs, so I hope you are able to achieve a reasonable settlement.
posted by Little Dawn at 11:49 AM on May 20, 2019 [8 favorites]
I totally get the guilt, and I think it's admirable that you're taking responsibility and acknowledging your part in a challenging situation. It's fair that the other parent is frustrated, and it sounds like it was a mistake.
But let's be real here - it also sounds like if you moved, you'd be the primary caretaker of a small child in a location you hate with no local friends/family. And the worst part - a partner who works full time and who isn't willing to say they'll support you with affection, let alone intimacy. DO NOT DO THIS TO YOURSELF OR YOUR CHILD. He's not required to force himself to be miserable to move to NY, but you are also not required to make yourself miserable in Fla., and there are some icky dynamics in him wanting you to move, and yet saying he'll never forgive you.
posted by BlueBlueElectricBlue at 11:54 AM on May 20, 2019 [19 favorites]
But let's be real here - it also sounds like if you moved, you'd be the primary caretaker of a small child in a location you hate with no local friends/family. And the worst part - a partner who works full time and who isn't willing to say they'll support you with affection, let alone intimacy. DO NOT DO THIS TO YOURSELF OR YOUR CHILD. He's not required to force himself to be miserable to move to NY, but you are also not required to make yourself miserable in Fla., and there are some icky dynamics in him wanting you to move, and yet saying he'll never forgive you.
posted by BlueBlueElectricBlue at 11:54 AM on May 20, 2019 [19 favorites]
I think it doesn't really matter if it was fair of you to change your mind on Florida or not. The facts as they stand now are that your relationship has deteriorated, you live in New York, and you don't want to move to Florida. I would consult an attorney ASAP to find out the best way you can protect yourself from having to share custody 50-50 between states (if that's even a thing).
posted by schwinggg! at 12:00 PM on May 20, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by schwinggg! at 12:00 PM on May 20, 2019 [2 favorites]
In my view I think two parents should try to stay together for the good of the child, unless mentally ill, abusive, or substance abuse or addiction. Why not? You liked one another enough to be in a relationship and you pre-planned a pregnancy together.
If I liked or loved my boyfriend enough to decide to have a child with him I might follow him to wherever because: family life and love.
Florida is not wonderful because of its neighborhoods. It's wonderful for its natural beauty and sunshine and beaches and slower pace of life. I am a Floridian and don't blame you if you don't want to live here. It can be an immense culture shock with the sprawl and the heat and lack of culture. Although culture be found aplenty and a great life can be had in Florida.
Wherever you go there you are. You can decide to be happy or miserable wherever you live. If having two parents in the house for your child is important to you, you might try to adapt to Florida. If you are miserable in the state of Florida that's less important than being miserable in your relationship, or with yourself. Good luck.
posted by loveandhappiness at 2:01 PM on May 20, 2019
If I liked or loved my boyfriend enough to decide to have a child with him I might follow him to wherever because: family life and love.
Florida is not wonderful because of its neighborhoods. It's wonderful for its natural beauty and sunshine and beaches and slower pace of life. I am a Floridian and don't blame you if you don't want to live here. It can be an immense culture shock with the sprawl and the heat and lack of culture. Although culture be found aplenty and a great life can be had in Florida.
Wherever you go there you are. You can decide to be happy or miserable wherever you live. If having two parents in the house for your child is important to you, you might try to adapt to Florida. If you are miserable in the state of Florida that's less important than being miserable in your relationship, or with yourself. Good luck.
posted by loveandhappiness at 2:01 PM on May 20, 2019
Y'all need to go to a couples counseling session or two. No amount of internet advice will supplant the need for the two of you to have an impartial, well-trained, patient third party sitting in on your discussions about this situation. This is about communication between the two of you, not some missing piece of information or advice that exists out in the world independent of either of you.
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 2:02 PM on May 20, 2019 [6 favorites]
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 2:02 PM on May 20, 2019 [6 favorites]
Please talk to a lawyer in New York before considering a move to Florida, even temporarily, because you could get stuck in Florida for a very long time. This is not legal advice, just a warning about how urgent legal advice can be in situations like this, particularly when the other parent seems to believe that you have done something wrong by wanting to stay in the best environment for you and your young child.
posted by Little Dawn at 2:10 PM on May 20, 2019 [8 favorites]
posted by Little Dawn at 2:10 PM on May 20, 2019 [8 favorites]
He's inflexible about relocating here even though our families are here & we have a nice life with daycare, our kid-friendly neighborhood, etc.
You made that promise. You are breaking it. Best outcome is you admit you are wrong and the two of you break up. That is fair. The rest of what you are saying is making excuses for breaking a promise you broke.
Second, even if you were going to try and make it work--do you have a job in NY? What prospects of employment does he have there? He is already violating workplace rules to work remotely now. If you are bringing in more, it makes some sense to move to NYC. But if you are not currently employed it makes zero sense.
posted by Ironmouth at 2:13 PM on May 20, 2019 [3 favorites]
You made that promise. You are breaking it. Best outcome is you admit you are wrong and the two of you break up. That is fair. The rest of what you are saying is making excuses for breaking a promise you broke.
Second, even if you were going to try and make it work--do you have a job in NY? What prospects of employment does he have there? He is already violating workplace rules to work remotely now. If you are bringing in more, it makes some sense to move to NYC. But if you are not currently employed it makes zero sense.
posted by Ironmouth at 2:13 PM on May 20, 2019 [3 favorites]
Must the two of you be in either NYC or Florida? Would it be possible for the two of you to choose a third location that both of you would be happy with?
posted by orange swan at 2:16 PM on May 20, 2019 [4 favorites]
posted by orange swan at 2:16 PM on May 20, 2019 [4 favorites]
I would not leave my extensive support system to be with a person with whom I had no intimacy and did not act loving towards me at the first sign of trouble. Were I to move, it would be after lots of couples counseling and with an escape plan dimly in mind with the necessary capital to execute said plan. YMMV. Best of luck.
posted by Pretty Good Talker at 2:46 PM on May 20, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by Pretty Good Talker at 2:46 PM on May 20, 2019 [1 favorite]
mrs tough love and I have raised a couple of kids who are now out on their own. That’s going to color my answer.
To me this is two separate issues:
Issue 1: Your guilt over breaking your promise.
I kind of understand why your BF is upset. But I think it says good things about you that you feel poorly about ‘breaking your promise’ - a lot of people would just shrug it off without a 2nd thought: “oops!”
But I think the real issue here is: *there are promises that should never be made*. And *there are promises that should never be believed*. You erred in making a promise in the face of massive life-changes (pregnancy) - you didn’t appreciate how much life would change when you became a parent.
Similarly, your BF should not have put a lot of faith in such a promise. I’m guessing it’s the result of youthful inexperience plus ‘reality avoidance’, ie “she promised, so we’re set, I don’t need to think about it anymore.” I’ll also guess that a lot of his unhappiness comes from feeling stupid, ie “I should have known better!” Because, yeah: he really *should* have known better. But he’s far from alone.
In short:
- No, you are not bound by your ‘promise’.
- You should stop feeling guilty about it and take it as a life lesson.
- He should stop feeling dumb (or betrayed or whatever) and take it as a life lesson.
- Given that you both love the child, you should both focus on doing what is best for her.
- This vaguely reminds me of an O’Henry short story.
Issue 2: What is your future as a family?
I am very old school: what kind of money do each of you make? How much money do each of you expect to make over the next 10-20 years? Is there a large difference in the amounts? If one of you is making $100K+/year, and one of you is making $25K/year - I’m sure there are people who will disagree, but if the parents are good people who generally get along well together then IMHO / IME ‘better income’ is ‘better for the child’.
There are other factors: living close to friends and family can be a plus or a minus - AskMeFi is chock full of cautionary tales. I’d ask: how well does your BF get along with your Mom? Again IMHO / IME: a bad relationship with nearby in-laws is *not* ‘better for the child’.
Pragmatically? It seems like you hold all of the cards. As much as anyone might think it is (or should be) a joint decision - it’s really *your* decision. If the money / income thing is a wash, and you decide on NYC, could y’all do a “long distance commute” kind of relationship? (He flies home on weekends, stays in a cheap FL apartment 4-5 days a week?) Or - is there any kind of perk you could offer BF to help him get over his buttheadedness? (let him buy a Corvette or something?) Yeah, I’m also old school in that I think it’s usually best for the child if the parents stay together.
If I could say one thing to you and your BF: when people talk about making sacrifices for their children? This is what they’re talking about.
I wish all three of you the best.
posted by doctor tough love at 3:18 PM on May 20, 2019 [5 favorites]
To me this is two separate issues:
Issue 1: Your guilt over breaking your promise.
I kind of understand why your BF is upset. But I think it says good things about you that you feel poorly about ‘breaking your promise’ - a lot of people would just shrug it off without a 2nd thought: “oops!”
But I think the real issue here is: *there are promises that should never be made*. And *there are promises that should never be believed*. You erred in making a promise in the face of massive life-changes (pregnancy) - you didn’t appreciate how much life would change when you became a parent.
Similarly, your BF should not have put a lot of faith in such a promise. I’m guessing it’s the result of youthful inexperience plus ‘reality avoidance’, ie “she promised, so we’re set, I don’t need to think about it anymore.” I’ll also guess that a lot of his unhappiness comes from feeling stupid, ie “I should have known better!” Because, yeah: he really *should* have known better. But he’s far from alone.
In short:
- No, you are not bound by your ‘promise’.
- You should stop feeling guilty about it and take it as a life lesson.
- He should stop feeling dumb (or betrayed or whatever) and take it as a life lesson.
- Given that you both love the child, you should both focus on doing what is best for her.
- This vaguely reminds me of an O’Henry short story.
Issue 2: What is your future as a family?
I am very old school: what kind of money do each of you make? How much money do each of you expect to make over the next 10-20 years? Is there a large difference in the amounts? If one of you is making $100K+/year, and one of you is making $25K/year - I’m sure there are people who will disagree, but if the parents are good people who generally get along well together then IMHO / IME ‘better income’ is ‘better for the child’.
There are other factors: living close to friends and family can be a plus or a minus - AskMeFi is chock full of cautionary tales. I’d ask: how well does your BF get along with your Mom? Again IMHO / IME: a bad relationship with nearby in-laws is *not* ‘better for the child’.
Pragmatically? It seems like you hold all of the cards. As much as anyone might think it is (or should be) a joint decision - it’s really *your* decision. If the money / income thing is a wash, and you decide on NYC, could y’all do a “long distance commute” kind of relationship? (He flies home on weekends, stays in a cheap FL apartment 4-5 days a week?) Or - is there any kind of perk you could offer BF to help him get over his buttheadedness? (let him buy a Corvette or something?) Yeah, I’m also old school in that I think it’s usually best for the child if the parents stay together.
If I could say one thing to you and your BF: when people talk about making sacrifices for their children? This is what they’re talking about.
I wish all three of you the best.
posted by doctor tough love at 3:18 PM on May 20, 2019 [5 favorites]
I just reread your post and I’m feeling a bit flummoxed by all the responses being hard on you for not moving. You are clearly carrying a lot of guilt for not moving, but it sounds from your question like you agreed to move to further your relationship and only chose not to move after you started fighting and weren’t getting affection and support in FL. It doesn’t sound like you ever agreed to move FL as a co-parent not partnered with your kid’s dad, but you are clearly not really partnered with this person any longer, so the thing to do is stop relitigating your romantic relationship and figure out how you can best co-parent together. Given the history, a neutral third party is probably a really good idea.
posted by ElizaMain at 3:48 PM on May 20, 2019 [7 favorites]
posted by ElizaMain at 3:48 PM on May 20, 2019 [7 favorites]
I came to my current home city (which was on my short list of never-love places) under an agreement that my partner at the time would pursue their career and we would check in on staying/going after two years.
Two years later, they denied the agreement ever existed, and refused to have any conversation about it. So we stayed.
We are divorced now, and I'm finding ways to love this city (still a struggle almost two decades later; I really don't like it here!) but -- and this is why I'm sharing this -- the worst part of it then and now was that I trusted my partner knew how I felt, understood how I felt, heard how I felt when I repeatedly (for a year) emphasized how much I didn't want to do it, and when I ultimately made the commitment to put their needs ahead of my own...so I was crushed when they denied the agreement and had no interest in acknowledging my sacrifice (before moving) and feelings about being here (two years later.)
Even then, I trusted them on another big ticket life item, and they did it again. And again, it was the breach of trust that hurt the most, along with the seeming indifference to my feelings and the impact it would have on me.
So: I don't particularly approve of the things he is saying, but I sincerely hope you have acknowledged the core unfairness to him of breaking his trust by breaking your commitment to moving, and whatever you do relationship-wise the two of you would likely benefit from counseling to help him separate how he feels (I'm assuming betrayed and unheard) from your intentions (I'm assuming good faith) so that you two can co-parent effectively (in whatever form that takes.)
posted by davejay at 3:59 PM on May 20, 2019 [12 favorites]
Two years later, they denied the agreement ever existed, and refused to have any conversation about it. So we stayed.
We are divorced now, and I'm finding ways to love this city (still a struggle almost two decades later; I really don't like it here!) but -- and this is why I'm sharing this -- the worst part of it then and now was that I trusted my partner knew how I felt, understood how I felt, heard how I felt when I repeatedly (for a year) emphasized how much I didn't want to do it, and when I ultimately made the commitment to put their needs ahead of my own...so I was crushed when they denied the agreement and had no interest in acknowledging my sacrifice (before moving) and feelings about being here (two years later.)
Even then, I trusted them on another big ticket life item, and they did it again. And again, it was the breach of trust that hurt the most, along with the seeming indifference to my feelings and the impact it would have on me.
So: I don't particularly approve of the things he is saying, but I sincerely hope you have acknowledged the core unfairness to him of breaking his trust by breaking your commitment to moving, and whatever you do relationship-wise the two of you would likely benefit from counseling to help him separate how he feels (I'm assuming betrayed and unheard) from your intentions (I'm assuming good faith) so that you two can co-parent effectively (in whatever form that takes.)
posted by davejay at 3:59 PM on May 20, 2019 [12 favorites]
Growing up in NYC sounds amazing. I mean - such cool parks, library, museum, theatre, people, food
Winter in FL is also very awesome.
Support/family around is a good thing.
Good luck. Much communication will need to happen.
Be a happy momma
posted by PistachioRoux at 4:47 PM on May 20, 2019 [3 favorites]
Winter in FL is also very awesome.
Support/family around is a good thing.
Good luck. Much communication will need to happen.
Be a happy momma
posted by PistachioRoux at 4:47 PM on May 20, 2019 [3 favorites]
If you loved each other and wanted a family together -- get an RV. Snowbird. Make the world your home.
This may change as your daughter gets old enough for school and needs her own social network, but there is a thriving RV / van life community for people who can work remotely and are happy with limited stuff and unlimited adventure.
Because it's about making a house a home. No career or city can give you that. It comes from inside.
But... if you are not a couple, pulling together, then close quarters and a growing baby will be a recipe for disaster. If you are not committed, make the break while you are still friends and make the best of two homes for your child, with mutual respect and loving support as co-parents.
She doesn't get another shot at a good childhood.
Let go of the past.
Good luck.
posted by TrishaU at 6:25 PM on May 20, 2019 [1 favorite]
This may change as your daughter gets old enough for school and needs her own social network, but there is a thriving RV / van life community for people who can work remotely and are happy with limited stuff and unlimited adventure.
Because it's about making a house a home. No career or city can give you that. It comes from inside.
But... if you are not a couple, pulling together, then close quarters and a growing baby will be a recipe for disaster. If you are not committed, make the break while you are still friends and make the best of two homes for your child, with mutual respect and loving support as co-parents.
She doesn't get another shot at a good childhood.
Let go of the past.
Good luck.
posted by TrishaU at 6:25 PM on May 20, 2019 [1 favorite]
I also thought he'd come around
So many bad relationships, so many novels, so much angst can be summed up in that phrase. The guy went out of his way to tell you who he was and what was important to him and you went along with it, thinking that you would be able to change it/him as time went on. That doesn't make you a horrible person but you took a chance and it didn't pay off.
Now is the time to accept reality and come to a compromise that gives both of you the lives you want while making your daughter's happiness and stability a priority. Even though it seems that your romantic relationship is over and has been for some time, you seem to have enough of a connection to parent your daughter together as friends. That's something not every (ex)couple has, and it's worth valuing and building on.
posted by rpfields at 6:32 PM on May 20, 2019 [8 favorites]
So many bad relationships, so many novels, so much angst can be summed up in that phrase. The guy went out of his way to tell you who he was and what was important to him and you went along with it, thinking that you would be able to change it/him as time went on. That doesn't make you a horrible person but you took a chance and it didn't pay off.
Now is the time to accept reality and come to a compromise that gives both of you the lives you want while making your daughter's happiness and stability a priority. Even though it seems that your romantic relationship is over and has been for some time, you seem to have enough of a connection to parent your daughter together as friends. That's something not every (ex)couple has, and it's worth valuing and building on.
posted by rpfields at 6:32 PM on May 20, 2019 [8 favorites]
My comment pretty much depends on which part of FL your boyfriend is from (or wants to move to). If y’all moved back, would you be somewhere fairly young/diverse, or would it be Retirement Central? What kind of support system would the three of you have there compared to NYC?
I was born in NYC and my parents moved us to a tiny town in FL when I was almost a year old. We moved far away from 90% of my extended fam, and I never got to know them. I was a quirky, creative kid who likely would’ve thrived in NYC. Instead I grew up isolated in a weird little place where I had little family and most of the people I saw were 70 years older than me. Also, the heat is just...no. The happiest I ever was was when I escaped the state for a few years.
That was a while ago (we moved to FL in the early 80s), but some parts of FL are still bereft of opportunities and joy for younger people. Where is kiddo going to have more opportunities to thrive, to know his extended family, to feel supported and engaged?
I’ll tell you what I wish someone would’ve told my parents: It’s not just about you anymore. It’s about kiddo. She’s a priority now.
(Also, yes, you didn’t think through your promise to move, okay. But the way your boyfriend is holding it over your head sounds really emotionally unhealthy.)
posted by QuickedWeen at 6:38 PM on May 20, 2019 [2 favorites]
I was born in NYC and my parents moved us to a tiny town in FL when I was almost a year old. We moved far away from 90% of my extended fam, and I never got to know them. I was a quirky, creative kid who likely would’ve thrived in NYC. Instead I grew up isolated in a weird little place where I had little family and most of the people I saw were 70 years older than me. Also, the heat is just...no. The happiest I ever was was when I escaped the state for a few years.
That was a while ago (we moved to FL in the early 80s), but some parts of FL are still bereft of opportunities and joy for younger people. Where is kiddo going to have more opportunities to thrive, to know his extended family, to feel supported and engaged?
I’ll tell you what I wish someone would’ve told my parents: It’s not just about you anymore. It’s about kiddo. She’s a priority now.
(Also, yes, you didn’t think through your promise to move, okay. But the way your boyfriend is holding it over your head sounds really emotionally unhealthy.)
posted by QuickedWeen at 6:38 PM on May 20, 2019 [2 favorites]
Mod note: Couple comments deleted. AskMe isn't a place for back-and-forth discussion among commenters. If your comment talks about the OP in third person, that's a good hint that you're having a back-and-forth discussion with other commenters, rather than actually addressing the OP and constructively answering their question.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 7:10 PM on May 20, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 7:10 PM on May 20, 2019 [1 favorite]
If he's saying that he can't commit and can't forgive you, then believe him. Many people simply can't continue on or repair a relationship after a major betrayal of trust has occured.
If you haven't been intimate or even affectionate in 2 years, then it's likely also wishful thinking that you even still have a relationship to negotiate or save here.
If you truly want to act in the best interest of the child, then you have to immediately put away all of your own personal preferences, pros/cons lists, ideas and feelings, and proceed in fairness to the child. Decide with whom your child will primarily reside. Then the primary parent/caregiver is generally permitted to reside with the child where they have established work, secured residence and a support system and the other parent is given generous access to the child and joint decision making for the child. This may differ a lot though according to your local laws. Most places have published guidelines you can self access in relation to child custody, support, and visitation agreements to give you an idea of what a fair negotiation looks like. If you together cannot negotiate these terms without personal bias, or a lot of fighting, then this is then what mediation, lawyers and family court is for.
posted by OnefortheLast at 9:34 PM on May 20, 2019 [1 favorite]
If you haven't been intimate or even affectionate in 2 years, then it's likely also wishful thinking that you even still have a relationship to negotiate or save here.
If you truly want to act in the best interest of the child, then you have to immediately put away all of your own personal preferences, pros/cons lists, ideas and feelings, and proceed in fairness to the child. Decide with whom your child will primarily reside. Then the primary parent/caregiver is generally permitted to reside with the child where they have established work, secured residence and a support system and the other parent is given generous access to the child and joint decision making for the child. This may differ a lot though according to your local laws. Most places have published guidelines you can self access in relation to child custody, support, and visitation agreements to give you an idea of what a fair negotiation looks like. If you together cannot negotiate these terms without personal bias, or a lot of fighting, then this is then what mediation, lawyers and family court is for.
posted by OnefortheLast at 9:34 PM on May 20, 2019 [1 favorite]
Are you (and he) willing to consider giving him custody?
I grew up in the suburbs and am now a committed New Yorker. While I've never been to Florida, I can definitely imagine what you might mean by "I hated it" and your comments about a culturally rich and diverse neighborhood here. I have basically that reaction to the thought of living anywhere but New York, even places that are hardly lightweights by U.S. standards (e.g., Chicago, Seattle, SF).
So while I have a lot of sympathy for your position, your story leaves me a lot more impressed with your boyfriend than with you.
He was super-clear that he did not want to move to New York, and fathered a child thinking you and he had an understanding on that point. When it turned out you didn't, he mostly came to New York anyway, for all but the few months when your job let you come to Florida, even though his job doesn't really let him work remotely.
Meanwhile, you agreed to move a thousand miles sight unseen because "it was winter in New York", and reneged on that as soon as you saw what it would entail. It doesn't sound like you considered that promise very carefully. It also doesn't sound like you've made any attempt to keep it. I know you visited for a few months at a time when your work allowed, but there's a big difference between visiting for a defined period and making a good-faith effort to put down roots. You don't mention looking for a job down there, or trying to transition to more of that freelance work you had before.
I don't know. Obviously your story in incomplete and sometimes people are a lot harder on themselves than they deserve. But so far, you're really painting him as the more self-aware and committed parent.
posted by meaty shoe puppet at 9:53 PM on May 20, 2019 [8 favorites]
I grew up in the suburbs and am now a committed New Yorker. While I've never been to Florida, I can definitely imagine what you might mean by "I hated it" and your comments about a culturally rich and diverse neighborhood here. I have basically that reaction to the thought of living anywhere but New York, even places that are hardly lightweights by U.S. standards (e.g., Chicago, Seattle, SF).
So while I have a lot of sympathy for your position, your story leaves me a lot more impressed with your boyfriend than with you.
He was super-clear that he did not want to move to New York, and fathered a child thinking you and he had an understanding on that point. When it turned out you didn't, he mostly came to New York anyway, for all but the few months when your job let you come to Florida, even though his job doesn't really let him work remotely.
Meanwhile, you agreed to move a thousand miles sight unseen because "it was winter in New York", and reneged on that as soon as you saw what it would entail. It doesn't sound like you considered that promise very carefully. It also doesn't sound like you've made any attempt to keep it. I know you visited for a few months at a time when your work allowed, but there's a big difference between visiting for a defined period and making a good-faith effort to put down roots. You don't mention looking for a job down there, or trying to transition to more of that freelance work you had before.
I don't know. Obviously your story in incomplete and sometimes people are a lot harder on themselves than they deserve. But so far, you're really painting him as the more self-aware and committed parent.
posted by meaty shoe puppet at 9:53 PM on May 20, 2019 [8 favorites]
I have lived this. DO. NOT. GO.
This.
I uprooted my life for love once, and it's hard even with circumstances considerably less difficult than what you have laid out here.
posted by mordax at 2:29 AM on May 21, 2019 [1 favorite]
This.
I uprooted my life for love once, and it's hard even with circumstances considerably less difficult than what you have laid out here.
posted by mordax at 2:29 AM on May 21, 2019 [1 favorite]
This study showed that single mothers may actually have better living conditions and get more sleep than married mothers, especially if they get help and support from their community/family.
The point is, you don't need to be afraid of being a single mom. I think you are right that the scarier thing is moving someplace you don't want to be and feeling unsupported.
posted by thelastpolarbear at 4:22 AM on May 21, 2019 [5 favorites]
The point is, you don't need to be afraid of being a single mom. I think you are right that the scarier thing is moving someplace you don't want to be and feeling unsupported.
posted by thelastpolarbear at 4:22 AM on May 21, 2019 [5 favorites]
It sounds like staying in NYC is the right thing for you and your son, despite the promises you made and the wishes of your boyfriend. Do you deserve to be absolved of your guilt and have a clear conscience? No. Should you move to Florida so that your child's father's relationship with his son can exist in a more settled way? I would also say no. People make mistakes. You are the guilty party here, but you can't live the rest of your life trying to make sacrifices so that no one but you suffers for it.
Given what you've described, I think the ideal scenario involves you living in NYC with your son, his dad living in Florida, and a lot of travel in between. Dad can come up maybe 4-5 times a year, and then you, or ideally grandma or uncle can bring your son down there another 3-4 times a year. Once your son is school age he can go spend his school holidays down there.
Good luck. I'm sorry that you and your family are going through a tough time right now, and I hope things feel better once they get settled.
posted by tk_zk at 5:47 AM on May 21, 2019
Given what you've described, I think the ideal scenario involves you living in NYC with your son, his dad living in Florida, and a lot of travel in between. Dad can come up maybe 4-5 times a year, and then you, or ideally grandma or uncle can bring your son down there another 3-4 times a year. Once your son is school age he can go spend his school holidays down there.
Good luck. I'm sorry that you and your family are going through a tough time right now, and I hope things feel better once they get settled.
posted by tk_zk at 5:47 AM on May 21, 2019
What about compromising? A few years in Florida, a few in NYC, and take it from there?
Everything in this question is framed in black and white categories, as if changing your mind or making a decision is an absolute transformation or promise, or breaking up is a necessary evil, or making sacrifices is only good if one person is totally satisfied.
This is an unrealistic and selfish view of relationships. Your boyfriend should be sympathetic to your change of heart. Human relationships are not made of business contracts and written laws, but your boyfriend is acting as if this were the case (and so are many commenters) by punishing you for reneging. The two of you should have had a full discussion about the question before the pregnancy, with considerations of both of your desires and the many possible outcomes. Since it is too late for that, you should start that discussion now.
If you truly value your relationship with your boyfriend, then you will both compromise to make it work and to make both of you as happy as possible. You obviously don't want to move to Florida forever, and this makes perfect sense from what you said in your question. But can you move there for a little while? Or can your boyfriend find a new job somewhere else? Clearly he has made a life for himself in Florida, but he just had a child, presumably this meant he felt ready to build a new life now, a life which includes more people than just himself (for the first time ever, perhaps). He has to realize he needs to make changes. If it is not this move now, what about the many changes that your daughter will force you both to make over the next 20+ years as you raise her?
Something has to give. You can't have the perfect location, relationship, jobs, family, friends, and daughter in your life. You each have to figure out what makes you happy and how you can choose between these factors to get a satisfying result for everyone involved. But if you both feel that making sacrifices to the relationship and your new family will make you unhappy (sacrifices on both sides), then you clearly don't want that relationship after all and you will only continue to resent each other for the compromises you continue to half-heatedly make out of momentum rather than collective decision-making.
posted by poilkj at 8:32 AM on May 21, 2019
Everything in this question is framed in black and white categories, as if changing your mind or making a decision is an absolute transformation or promise, or breaking up is a necessary evil, or making sacrifices is only good if one person is totally satisfied.
This is an unrealistic and selfish view of relationships. Your boyfriend should be sympathetic to your change of heart. Human relationships are not made of business contracts and written laws, but your boyfriend is acting as if this were the case (and so are many commenters) by punishing you for reneging. The two of you should have had a full discussion about the question before the pregnancy, with considerations of both of your desires and the many possible outcomes. Since it is too late for that, you should start that discussion now.
If you truly value your relationship with your boyfriend, then you will both compromise to make it work and to make both of you as happy as possible. You obviously don't want to move to Florida forever, and this makes perfect sense from what you said in your question. But can you move there for a little while? Or can your boyfriend find a new job somewhere else? Clearly he has made a life for himself in Florida, but he just had a child, presumably this meant he felt ready to build a new life now, a life which includes more people than just himself (for the first time ever, perhaps). He has to realize he needs to make changes. If it is not this move now, what about the many changes that your daughter will force you both to make over the next 20+ years as you raise her?
Something has to give. You can't have the perfect location, relationship, jobs, family, friends, and daughter in your life. You each have to figure out what makes you happy and how you can choose between these factors to get a satisfying result for everyone involved. But if you both feel that making sacrifices to the relationship and your new family will make you unhappy (sacrifices on both sides), then you clearly don't want that relationship after all and you will only continue to resent each other for the compromises you continue to half-heatedly make out of momentum rather than collective decision-making.
posted by poilkj at 8:32 AM on May 21, 2019
Response by poster: Thank you for thoughtful responses, everyone. I appreciate the time taken and feel like I have a more well-rounded view of things, which is best-case scenario for now. Thanks again.
posted by LibraNYC at 11:04 AM on May 21, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by LibraNYC at 11:04 AM on May 21, 2019 [3 favorites]
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posted by LibraNYC at 8:51 AM on May 20, 2019