Flattening drywall texture

June 24, 2018 6:40 PM

Have you or anyone you know ever flattened drywall texture? I'm trying to figure out if it's at all practical as a DIY project.

There are DIY guides. Basically, you take joint compound, apply it with a paint roller, then trowel it smooth. You sand as the final step. It didn't sound too bad.

But when I called a drywall company to ask about it, they said they couldn't give a definitive price without coming on site, but that a low-end project cost around $10k! That makes me think it's way more work than these blogs make it sound like.

I'd like to spend no more than two weeks of evenings after work (about 2-4 hours after getting my toddler to bed) and weekends (maybe about the same, actually, 3-5 hours / day). If all I got done was this (maybe 20' x 25') living room and entrance hallway, that might count as a victory.

Probably I should just skip to just painting the place, but the texture is so ugly. It's somewhere between popcorn and a heavy orange peel. I keep trying to plan the paint job but keep going back to wondering if I should try to flatten it before painting, for fear I'll hate the final look no matter how great our paint color.

Any words of wisdom or advice? I know there are a lot of experienced professionals and DIYers here.

posted by slidell to Home & Garden (29 answers total)

This is one of those things where you're paying the drywall contractor $2,000 to do the job and $8,000 to know how to do it well.

It's not something I'd relish doing myself. If it's really bumpy, maybe just run a random orbital sander over it to knock the texture down a bit.
posted by humboldt32 at 6:58 PM on June 24, 2018 [2 favorites]

I have horrific textured walls (it is a thing in older houses in Pittsburgh, nearly impossible to escape) and concluded it wasn't worth it to smooth them. The impression I got is that it is tedious, hard work to get it right. I think if it was easy-ish to do I wouldn't have visited so many many homes with textured walls in 2015 when I was last house hunting.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:01 PM on June 24, 2018 [2 favorites]

.... and another $1000 for the pros to bring their sheeting and clean up after themselves. Because oh, the mess.

I had popcorn ceilings redone by pros. I really stink at drywall work. I appreciate what an art it is. This is something I'd hire out, because of the skill level of finish work. I do a lot myself, but walls' worth of texture? Nope out.
posted by Dashy at 7:26 PM on June 24, 2018 [2 favorites]

the kind of spray on popcorn that is common on many American suburban ceilings

...may contains asbestos if it dates from before the mid-1980s. Production of new asbestos-containing materials was banned in '78 but it was fine to continue using any existing inventory, so there isn't a hard cut-off date.

If you're comparing the texture to popcorn when you talk to contractors, they may want to look at it to determine if they're dealing with an abatement situation, and the ballpark estimate might reflect this. (It's also possible that it really is that expensive--I don't have any direct experience.)

Also, you probably don't want to do any flattening, sanding or scraping of the original material if it does contain asbestos. If you'd like to get it tested, having a someone come out to take a sample will probably run $100-200. It's usually fairly inexpensive have additional samples taken at the same time so if you've ever wondered about your pipe wrap, floor/ceiling tile, attic insulation etc. you could have it tested the same time.
posted by pullayup at 7:27 PM on June 24, 2018 [4 favorites]

AFTER you get it tested for asbestos, the trick is to get the old stuff a *little* wet, which makes it a little easier to smooth out.

But the *real* trick is to throw up second layer of new thin ceiling drywall on top of the old stuff. Much, much faster and cheaper (in hours)! If the old stuff has asbestos, this is just about the only way to do this without paying a fortune for abatement.
posted by cfraenkel at 7:38 PM on June 24, 2018 [3 favorites]

I did a probably 200 sq ft area myself last december - it was walls, not ceilings, not asbestos, and so heavily nicotine-impregnated that I wanted it gone, not just covered up. I used a hand sander, went heavy on the mask and eyewear, and it took me a weekend. It sucked, but it was totally doable. It did not leave me with a perfectly smooth surface - there's still some pattern there - but the pattern is entirely indents and once primed, totally visually innocuous.

I will say, if you do it this way, learn from me, get a sander with a hookup to a shop vac, and don't cover the space in a solid quarter inch of paint dust. I'm still finding it in places six months later.
posted by restless_nomad at 7:54 PM on June 24, 2018 [3 favorites]

Ok so I'm in the unique position of 1) having just chosen to go with a really cheap guy over a more expensive company for this exact thing, and 2) spending what's turning into two weeks fixing all the mistakes the guy left, badly, myself. Had I a time machine I'd go with the more expensive company and I'd be painting right now instead of sanding, watching YouTube desperately, making more mistakes, sobbing, repeat.
posted by Temeraria at 8:00 PM on June 24, 2018 [3 favorites]

Wait, ceiling-style texture? Or wall-style texture? Your mention of orange-peel makes me think the latter, but everyone seems to be zooming in on ceiling?

...if it’s wall texturing then it’s just drywall mud, with no asbestos. If so, it can be smoothed by using a flexible trowel and a steady hand to apply new drywall mud in all of the low spots (basically, you scrape against the high spots). Then sand, and paint. PITA, and a mess, but nobody is going to die and you may be able to get it done in the time you’ve allotted if you’re already decent at applying drywall mud.

So, if you can lay down mud fairly smooth on a seam, give it a try! Make sure you use a flexible trowel or you’ll want to kill yourself. Again, use a flexible trowel — you need to be able to drive the mud onto the wall in one smooth motion. I dunno, maybe you could do it with a regular trowel, but IMHO you’d have to be a wizard to make that work well.

...but I’ll say this: I’ve got it on my walls (CA), and I’m not gonna remove it because I value my time, and $10K would help buy me a new deck instead...
posted by aramaic at 8:06 PM on June 24, 2018 [2 favorites]

Best answer: There are DIY guides. Basically, you take joint compound, apply it with a paint roller, then trowel it smooth. You sand as the final step. It didn't sound too bad.

It is in theory very easy to do. If you've ever done any plaster work at all, you'd know that doing plaster work well is the hard part.

Texture on walls and ceilings exist to mask small imperfections in the layers underneath. You'll appreciate this more once you try to join to fussy joints.

I'd advise you to start small. Do a closet or something and see how it goes. Plaster is not a difficult thing to do, but takes time and practice to master. Allow yourself room to learn and it shouldn't be too difficult to do on your own.

And as someone pointed out - if your house is old enough asbestos (and/or lead paint) is a concern.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 9:31 PM on June 24, 2018

If you give up on smoothing it and decide to just paint it, flat paint sheen helps to make the texture less noticable.
posted by ilovewinter at 9:54 PM on June 24, 2018 [2 favorites]

If you’re going to DIY the entire house (or go room by room) - invest in a proper Festool drywall sander and a HEPA vacuum. Yeah, they’re a small fortune but it’ll make the process go from suck to a pleasure. And when you’re done you can easily sell for 70-80% of what you paid for them. These German made tools are like the Apple of tools and retain their value like crazy and have a crazy following on the used market.
posted by donguanella at 9:59 PM on June 24, 2018 [4 favorites]

Response by poster: I'm really appreciating all the thoughts and words of advice.

If it helps, here are some images:
Most of the living room
Living room ceiling
Front entry
Hallway (with some great patches)
Hallway (very thick texture in general)
Closet ceiling (does that look like popcorn?)

(You can also see the horrible mud color of the walls that I'm desperate to paint over.)

I'm trying to find out when this house was built to get a sense of whether asbestos might be a risk. Aside from that, the mention of HEPA makes me wonder, is any of this stuff totally noxious for your health? My sense is that drywall dust is just kind of an irritant, right? Is joint compound any different?

I'm also having trouble imagining how it would work to scrape the texture off, given that it's beneath at least one layer of paint. I've been understanding this as a "fill the valleys" thing, not a "sand off the mountain peaks" thing. But let me know if that's the wrong idea. Thanks again for all the advice!
posted by slidell at 10:20 PM on June 24, 2018

Response by poster: Apparently it was built in 1964, according to Zillow, so I guess asbestos is a possibility.
posted by slidell at 10:28 PM on June 24, 2018

Aside from that, the mention of HEPA makes me wonder, is any of this stuff totally noxious for your health? My sense is that drywall dust is just kind of an irritant, right? Is joint compound any different?

Plaster/drywall/compound are comprised of very fine particles of various types. When you work them (sanding, cutting, etc.) it gets everywhere. Prolonged exposure can lead to silicosis or cancer (CDC pdf link). A good vacuum and ventilator can go a long way to minimize the risks associated with even incidental exposure.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 10:35 PM on June 24, 2018 [2 favorites]

10k to fix over a thousand square feet of this isn’t out of line. It will take multiple days and make a huge mess which they will have to clean up and they will do a near perfect job. And they will have tools that make it easier but you have no use for.

Me, if I was being real cheap, I would buy a 16” wide taping knife and low dust compound and plan on two perpendicular coats that would get applied, let dry, scraped to remove mistake ridges and wet wiped to smooth. Then look at it with a low angle light source and see if there’s any actual sanding to do. Follow up with another carefully applied coat if needed and or hit it with flat paint / wallpaper.

Upthread advice for a sander with shopvac attachment is essential for sanity. As is a small work scaffold/ platform (not a ladder) if you can’t reach the ceiling.
posted by seanmpuckett at 4:54 AM on June 25, 2018 [3 favorites]

Note the texture has acoustic properties so your rooms will sound different if you smooth the walls/ ceiling.
posted by seanmpuckett at 4:56 AM on June 25, 2018

You can do it but it's going to be a huge amount of work and unlikely that an amateur will be able to get a nice smooth even surface without a huge amount of sanding. The professionals I've worked with are so good that they can put a layer of wet mud on so smoothly that it hardly needs any sanding. When I do it, I'm a painter but not a plasterer, it needs a ton of messy sanding and then touchup patching when I'm done sanding.

Watching really good plasterers work is almost like watching a dance performance, especially if they're working on stilts. They've usually learned the trade as they grew up in the family business and have been doing it so long that it's all muscle memory.
posted by octothorpe at 4:57 AM on June 25, 2018

I did a space about the size of yours. It took me over two weeks of constant daily work, I was in a ton of pain by the end (I also did my ceiling and my neck is still sore), and the house was a damn mess from the dust (and I used dropcloths over everything). And I have prior experience with mudding.

If you can afford to pay people? Pay people.
posted by elsietheeel at 7:01 AM on June 25, 2018 [2 favorites]

For the walls, lead paint's a more likely concern than asbestos. The ceiling's a possible source of both. Most of what this means for you is that sanding before applying joint compound might not be feasible, and if you're going to disturb those surfaces you should be testing them first. Probably even if you don't plan to disturb them, since this is not a neat process (and lead testing's likely free). Reducing the peaks before filling in the valleys can mean you don't have to put quite so much work into getting a smooth result. It is a lot of work either way, though.

My process for smoothing textured walls in a place that was built after lead paint and asbestos popcorn ceilings were phased out:

• Remove everything from room, including flooring if that's going to be replaced.
• Seal off anything that can be sealed off.
• Sand down the high spots of the wall texture. May result in interesting spotted effect with multiple layers of paint showing through.
• Sponge down the walls with water (repeat this step after pretty much every step from here out).
• Slap a bunch of diluted joint compound on walls, use large taping knives to smooth it to a very thin layer.
• Lightly sand to remove any large bumps (try not to entirely remove all the compound you just applied).
• Repeat the last two steps until it feels smooth enough (it might only take two layers if you're actually good at this. I was not.)
• Prime and paint walls with usual processes (do not skip using a separate primer here; the joint compound will suck all the joy out of the paint otherwise.)

Definitely go with a vacuum sander attachment; even cheap ones are pretty great for reducing the dust that will get absolutely everywhere. Use appropriate protective equipment: ventilator mask, earplugs (shop vacuum noise), safety glasses. Cover your hair if you don't want to wash joint compound out of it. (You do not.)
posted by asperity at 8:11 AM on June 25, 2018 [1 favorite]

The houses in my neighborhood have that horrid wall texturing. It's basically a layer of joint mud-ish stuff sprayed onto the drywall. Contractors did this because it's far cheaper and quicker to have a guy quickly spray-down all the walls than it is to have a crew tape-and-mud-and-smooth the joints.

You can absolutely put an a additional layer of mud over the entire wall and have it smoothed. As you've found out, this is a very expensive job. Most of the cost comes from the labor involved in getting a good smooth finish over the expanse of an entire wall. Plus, you now have another layer of mud on the walls, which means you now have slightly thicker-than-standard walls with what is a fairly soft/powdery covering, which effects things like what size and type of wall anchors and whatnot you can use (ask me how I know)

FWIW, my neighbor behind me hates the textured walls, so he essentially gutted his house down to the studs, hung all new drywall and did the preferred taped-and-mud-joints finish.
posted by Thorzdad at 8:38 AM on June 25, 2018 [3 favorites]

My 1960s house has the same textured walls and I promise you, after I had them painted with flat finish paint the bumps practically disappeared. Any color works. Eggshell finish is also fine but you don't want anything in the semi-gloss or beyond category.
posted by joan_holloway at 10:25 AM on June 25, 2018 [1 favorite]

If you are adding a thin layer of drywall compound to the existing wall to mute (but not smooth) the texture, you will need to sand it a bit, damp sponge the chalky residue off, and then trowel a thin coat of compound in place. This way it will adhere to the wall. Thin coats and plenty of drying time are key to prevent cracking and peeling.

A perfectly smooth texture is an art form. Go for subdued texture.
The repaired sections may need some reverse engineering to add a bit of texture, or they will stand out.

This is the time to repair any cracks or holes, especially at the corners and wall joints. You may need to tape and bed some places. No worries, just do several thin coats until the tape disappears. Corner trowels -- you need them.

My nephew took a long time working a stylized swirl trowel pattern on one of his living room walls, like this. He said he'd never do that again.

Invest in some Kilz or Zinsser primer to get the new paint to adhere. This also smooths out the transitions between old painted drywall and new compound.

And a resounding yes to everyone who has warned about drywall dust getting everywhere. Invest in goggles, face masks, bandanas, gloves, a separate change of clothes and shoes. It's summer -- have a place to sit down under a fan and drink some water.
Drywall compound isn't smelly but you will need to take breaks and get out of the area, especially if you have been sanding between coats. Do not breath in the drywall dust, new or old.

I highly recommend "O'Keefe's Working Hands" and Shea Moisture soap, since I inevitably poke my fingers into the drywall compound to smooth it out and move it around.
Good luck!
posted by TrishaU at 11:35 AM on June 25, 2018 [1 favorite]

Response by poster: Okay, I'm still feeling a bit daunted and confused, so let me throw this out there for you to critique:

- Step 1: test for asbestos and lead. That's underway (though if anyone knows a good lab in Sac, let me know).

- Step 2: find an unobtrusive area and test out a method with a lot of scraping and/or sanding. Try spraying it with water and scraping the texture off with a paint scraper, or if necessary a sander with a vacuum attachment. Expect to have to do a skim coat of joint compound at the end.

- Step 3: on another wall in the same closet, try the method I saw in the blog post: roll on some joint compound, and use a big soft trowel to flatten it. I'll add TrishaU's steps: do a bit of light sanding to rough it up at the start, and then wipe off the dust with a damp sponge. Give it 2-3 coats, letting it dry thoroughly in between, basically as asperity described.

- Step 4: Decide between the scraping method or the skim coat method, or that neither works, in which case decide between living with it, paying an arm and a leg, or hanging new drywall. I'm pretty sure I'll just live with it.

If anyone has advice about which mud / joint compound to use, let me know. Thanks!
posted by slidell at 2:25 PM on June 25, 2018

Western Analytical Lab. Not in Sac but who cares, they work by mail. Note that there are a few other areas of your home that can have asbestos so look into the matter again if you are going to rip up old flooring, do something to the wall separating the garage from the house, etc.

Asbestos is fine if you encapsulate it with paint or some other impervious material, it's when you disturb it with cutting or sanding etc that you get trouble.
posted by aramaic at 2:47 PM on June 25, 2018

I'm cheap, so I have used the premixed sheetrock from Lowes. The dry mix is also useful, but I prefer the premix. I do not use the quick-drying formula.
I like having a variety of trowel lengths and a couple of mud trays. I usually put the bag of compound in a five-gallon plastic bucket with lid (usually repurposed from paint) and cover the open bag with some plastic wrap to keep it from drying. Eventually the smaller amounts are put into one-gallon plastic buckets, also available at Lowes.

Usually I slap on a fair amount of mud, then clean the edge of the trowel and smooth it down to a thin, thin layer. Keep cleaning the edge of the trowel between strokes to prevent streaks in the mud.
I scrape my trowels back into the mud tray to stretch the amount I'm using. Again, remove dried bits if this is messing up your work.

Sometimes I thin the mud with some water. Once it begins to dry out, throw it out and wash the first tray, and switch to a clean mud tray.
posted by TrishaU at 2:56 PM on June 25, 2018 [1 favorite]

Ahhhh damn slidell, I moved away from Sac a year ago. If I hadn't I'd have lent you all my leftover tools.

I'll note that I did *not* sand or scrape, but instead painted the walls with a cheap drywall primer that was sort of like a thinned and colored PVA glue. That helped the skim coat stick and saved me a lot of time and mess and issues with lead paint or asbestos.

Also I tried the roller and flexible trowel/squeegee method and wasn't satisfied, so I went with a standard hawk (or sometimes pan) and rectangular trowel to slather it on thick and fast enough (using either 45 minute or 90 minute mud, depending on the size of the area I was mudding), then used the squeegee trowel plus a spray bottle to smooth it down.
posted by elsietheeel at 2:57 PM on June 25, 2018 [1 favorite]

We have the same texture on all of our walls and we went ahead and just painted. If it's any help I can say that the texture is less visible on the walls where we used a fairly matte paint and more visible where we used glossy paint (kitchen and bathroom).
posted by Miss Matheson at 4:10 PM on June 25, 2018 [1 favorite]

Just to let you know, once you test for asbestos and they find it, you have to declare it when you sell the house and it's sort of that thing that people sort of assume is there but don't want to buy a house that officially has it. Just saying, you want to realize that testing for asbestos may have consequences to your resale value. You will need to factor that in to weighing your pros and cons.
posted by Foam Pants at 11:34 PM on June 25, 2018

Just as a point on subsequent property sale, keeping in mind that this depends upon your specific region and the relevant laws therein as well as your personal sense of decency, but: a number (most?) of the analytical labs are careful to leave no particular paper trail on your end, and they do not report to a central authority, so a person could choose to forget certain details of information they once paid to discover, and then simply check the "don't know" boxes on any real estate disclosures......

[Now, full disclosure, in my case I paid for professional removal, and have the paperwork to prove it as well as an EPA registration as a polluter (neat? maybe?) because I further paid for appropriate disposal of the tainted material and am therefore a registered customer of a hazardous waste disposal facility. It really wasn't such a terrible hassle, and now I don't have to worry about killing anyone that doesn't deserve it. Abatement/removal contractors are generally pretty good, at least in California.]
posted by aramaic at 4:05 PM on June 26, 2018 [1 favorite]