"What were you thinking??'
March 17, 2018 8:53 PM Subscribe
Under what circumstances would you tell a close friend that they've done, or are doing, something really stupid/hurtful/wrong/inappropriate to someone else--a stranger? And does their (non criminal) transgression affect your friendship?
The evaluation reflects the world according to you, but does transgression, depending on how serious, affect your friendship, or is friendship its own bubble between you two, a thing unto itself? What happens when your friends break YOUR moral code but someone else is the victim? Does "live and let live" apply to your dear friends? Or does that apply to everyone other than those you care about? And when do you call them out on their behavior--and when, if ever, do you excommunicate them?
Let's take mandated reporting (legal abuse of minor/elder/threat to self or another) and wildly criminal activity (assault, battery, and worse) out of it and say that the transgression is mostly moral: dear friend is cheating on fiance, dear friend has cheated on a major licensing exam for a few extra points, dear friend has admitted that she's dating someone only for their money, dear friend has become a minor con artist who scams a bunch of people out twenty dollar bills on the street, dear friend is lying to the IRS about their taxes. (OK, so some criminal element possible, but nothing egregious).
Could you stay friends with someone who, over time, has become an adulterer? A tax evader? A cheater? A con artist? A golddigger? Assume friendship far predates this stuff. I'd love anecdotes if you have any.
The evaluation reflects the world according to you, but does transgression, depending on how serious, affect your friendship, or is friendship its own bubble between you two, a thing unto itself? What happens when your friends break YOUR moral code but someone else is the victim? Does "live and let live" apply to your dear friends? Or does that apply to everyone other than those you care about? And when do you call them out on their behavior--and when, if ever, do you excommunicate them?
Let's take mandated reporting (legal abuse of minor/elder/threat to self or another) and wildly criminal activity (assault, battery, and worse) out of it and say that the transgression is mostly moral: dear friend is cheating on fiance, dear friend has cheated on a major licensing exam for a few extra points, dear friend has admitted that she's dating someone only for their money, dear friend has become a minor con artist who scams a bunch of people out twenty dollar bills on the street, dear friend is lying to the IRS about their taxes. (OK, so some criminal element possible, but nothing egregious).
Could you stay friends with someone who, over time, has become an adulterer? A tax evader? A cheater? A con artist? A golddigger? Assume friendship far predates this stuff. I'd love anecdotes if you have any.
This post was deleted for the following reason: Sorry, this is chatfilter. Contact us about how to rewrite it to work for AskMe. -- Eyebrows McGee
Yeah, staying friends with anything you said is just, I don't know. Dumb on top of dumb. Get away.
posted by sanka at 9:14 PM on March 17, 2018
posted by sanka at 9:14 PM on March 17, 2018
I have remained friends with at least one person who has done the "I am going to cheat on you in a really obvious way so you break up with me because I am conflict-avoidant" thing, but I would have a lot more trouble with a chronic adulterer. I don't ask people about their relationship to the IRS, but I dislike people who brag about getting away with avoiding basic social responsibilities like not cheating, and con artists? Yeah no.
posted by restless_nomad at 9:18 PM on March 17, 2018
posted by restless_nomad at 9:18 PM on March 17, 2018
I've ended friendships over those types of things. I typically do a slow fade and stop returning their calls and entreaties to hang out. I have never actually called anyone out on behavior in advance of them asking me why our friendship was lapsing. Only twice has there been an acknowledgement that it was their moral choices that caused the end of the friendship.
In one instance, she asked me if there was something she did to cause me to pull away. I said, "We have a lot of interests in common, but I've come to realize that our values are not compatible with one another and I don't want to continue our friendship." She asked if it was because she told me she was cheating on her husband, and I said yes. She understood.
In the other instance, I would repeatedly tell her, as we were hanging out, that hearing stories of her exploits made me uncomfortable and to stop telling me about them. Since it was all she ever wanted to talk about, we soon found that there was little to talk about. She came to regard me as a wet blanket, and she moved away from our friendship of her own volition.
There is certainly something to be said for "live and let live," and in all cases, it can be said that none of my friends' behaviors victimized me. However, they did affect me; my being exposed to someone's immoral decisions made me feel like I was in a way normalizing the behavior, and repeated exposure to even their discussion of it made me feel truly bad inside. In all instances, I ultimately felt relief that I no longer had to be even peripherally involved with someone who regularly acted in ways that were inconsistent with my values.
posted by juniperesque at 9:19 PM on March 17, 2018
In one instance, she asked me if there was something she did to cause me to pull away. I said, "We have a lot of interests in common, but I've come to realize that our values are not compatible with one another and I don't want to continue our friendship." She asked if it was because she told me she was cheating on her husband, and I said yes. She understood.
In the other instance, I would repeatedly tell her, as we were hanging out, that hearing stories of her exploits made me uncomfortable and to stop telling me about them. Since it was all she ever wanted to talk about, we soon found that there was little to talk about. She came to regard me as a wet blanket, and she moved away from our friendship of her own volition.
There is certainly something to be said for "live and let live," and in all cases, it can be said that none of my friends' behaviors victimized me. However, they did affect me; my being exposed to someone's immoral decisions made me feel like I was in a way normalizing the behavior, and repeated exposure to even their discussion of it made me feel truly bad inside. In all instances, I ultimately felt relief that I no longer had to be even peripherally involved with someone who regularly acted in ways that were inconsistent with my values.
posted by juniperesque at 9:19 PM on March 17, 2018
I would have a hard time being friends with someone I didn’t respect, and I would have a hard time respecting someone who did things that were egregiously cruel and selfish. I’ve stayed friends with people who have made big mistakes and done bad things for which they were sorry, but there’s an element of not caring about other people in most of the things that you list that would probably be a deal-breaker for me.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 9:22 PM on March 17, 2018
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 9:22 PM on March 17, 2018
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posted by bq at 9:00 PM on March 17, 2018 [1 favorite]