Ain't no shame in our game!!!
March 14, 2018 11:42 AM Subscribe
I'm a (sometimes more, sometimes less) fat man, and was a fat boy. I have a thin wife, one solid 5 yo son, one skinny 3 yo boy, and one chunky 3 yo girl. My kids call me squishy. The 5 yo called me fat. I agreed with him, but my wife was disturbed.
What are best practices to teach body acceptance and non-fat shaming to my kids?
How should I deal with statements that have a strong factual component "Daddy, you are fat" when those same words are used as insults? I do things like pinch my beautiful girl's belly fat and kvell over it, and she giggles and giggles. Should I quit that stuff?
Seriously, just looking for the best way not to give anyone a complex.
How should I deal with statements that have a strong factual component "Daddy, you are fat" when those same words are used as insults? I do things like pinch my beautiful girl's belly fat and kvell over it, and she giggles and giggles. Should I quit that stuff?
Seriously, just looking for the best way not to give anyone a complex.
Best answer: I think just treating it like a statement of fact, with no values associated with it, is great. Or you can use it as an opening to a conversation about bodies, again, with no values or judgment. I also think pinching your toddler's belly fat, if she enjoys it, is good. It's good to teach kids by example that bodies are different and any kind of body can be a source of wonder and fun.
I grew up with a fat dad and was a chunky kid and he had all sorts of fat shame that he telegraphed to his kids. He got upset when I called him fat (when I was around the age of your son) even though he made fun of himself for being fat. When I got older, he was concerned about me becoming fat, to the point where his attitudes helped me develop some disordered eating that, surprise surprise, led me to be a really overweight adult. I only started unpacking this stuff in my thirties. I really wish he'd had the maturity and emotional intelligence you obviously have, to accept his body and, by extension, mine.
posted by the sockening at 12:01 PM on March 14, 2018 [14 favorites]
I grew up with a fat dad and was a chunky kid and he had all sorts of fat shame that he telegraphed to his kids. He got upset when I called him fat (when I was around the age of your son) even though he made fun of himself for being fat. When I got older, he was concerned about me becoming fat, to the point where his attitudes helped me develop some disordered eating that, surprise surprise, led me to be a really overweight adult. I only started unpacking this stuff in my thirties. I really wish he'd had the maturity and emotional intelligence you obviously have, to accept his body and, by extension, mine.
posted by the sockening at 12:01 PM on March 14, 2018 [14 favorites]
I think when your "solid 5 yo son" calls you fat, he is really saying 'you're fat, but I'm not' because he fears being seen as fat himself, and needs to define himself as 'not fat'.
So I believe your approach to him should be on the one hand to reassure him that he isn't fat and there are things he can do with your help to keep from getting fat, and on the other to tell him that there's nothing wrong with being fat, and that it hurts people's feelings to call them fat and he shouldn't do that -- and he knows that last bit down deep because he doesn't want to be called fat himself, but it's such a kid thing to accuse other people of being the thing you are most afraid you are yourself.
posted by jamjam at 12:19 PM on March 14, 2018 [1 favorite]
So I believe your approach to him should be on the one hand to reassure him that he isn't fat and there are things he can do with your help to keep from getting fat, and on the other to tell him that there's nothing wrong with being fat, and that it hurts people's feelings to call them fat and he shouldn't do that -- and he knows that last bit down deep because he doesn't want to be called fat himself, but it's such a kid thing to accuse other people of being the thing you are most afraid you are yourself.
posted by jamjam at 12:19 PM on March 14, 2018 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Treat "fat" as an attribute like any other. People can be fat, thin, tall, short, brown-eyed, blue-eyed, athletic, unathletic. It's just a description, nothing more, nothing less.
Make your kids aware that it's not polite to comment on other peoples' appearances unless it's immediate family or very close friends.
posted by erst at 12:22 PM on March 14, 2018 [23 favorites]
Make your kids aware that it's not polite to comment on other peoples' appearances unless it's immediate family or very close friends.
posted by erst at 12:22 PM on March 14, 2018 [23 favorites]
Best answer: I think when your "solid 5 yo son" calls you fat, he is really saying 'you're fat, but I'm not' because he fears being seen as fat himself, and needs to define himself as 'not fat'.
Good Lord, there's no reason to think this at all. A 5 year old could easily be making an observation about your body. He may or may not be attaching judgment to it.
So I believe your approach to him should be on the one hand to reassure him that he isn't fat and there are things he can do with your help to keep from getting fat, and on the other to tell him that there's nothing wrong with being fat, and that it hurts people's feelings to call them fat and he shouldn't do that
You can't reassure him that he's not fat and that he can keep from getting fat and simultaneously tell him there's nothing wrong with being fat. That's asking for complete cognitive dissonance. You can't even promise he can keep from getting fat - that may or may not be in his and your control (there are many reasons for weight gain, including medication). The best thing to do is try to divorce being fat from being lazy, stupid, smelly - all the other words that "fat" has come to stand for in our culture. Body size activists don't have a problem with the word "fat" in itself - the problem is the value judgment attached.
The best way to teach body acceptance to your kids is to accept your own body. And theirs.
posted by FencingGal at 12:36 PM on March 14, 2018 [35 favorites]
Good Lord, there's no reason to think this at all. A 5 year old could easily be making an observation about your body. He may or may not be attaching judgment to it.
So I believe your approach to him should be on the one hand to reassure him that he isn't fat and there are things he can do with your help to keep from getting fat, and on the other to tell him that there's nothing wrong with being fat, and that it hurts people's feelings to call them fat and he shouldn't do that
You can't reassure him that he's not fat and that he can keep from getting fat and simultaneously tell him there's nothing wrong with being fat. That's asking for complete cognitive dissonance. You can't even promise he can keep from getting fat - that may or may not be in his and your control (there are many reasons for weight gain, including medication). The best thing to do is try to divorce being fat from being lazy, stupid, smelly - all the other words that "fat" has come to stand for in our culture. Body size activists don't have a problem with the word "fat" in itself - the problem is the value judgment attached.
The best way to teach body acceptance to your kids is to accept your own body. And theirs.
posted by FencingGal at 12:36 PM on March 14, 2018 [35 favorites]
Best answer: My dad was always thin. My mom was an average sized child, a fattish teenager, a skinny college student with an eating disorder and someone who was never quite comfy with her body size after that. Her mother was a model. I am more or less average size but I fluctuate, and am sometimes concerned about it. My sister is heavier and a lot more accepting of her own body even though you'd think it might be the opposite. My mom used to talk a little bit about her disordered eating and body image and talked a lot about how when she had kids, she got a better grip on some of her body stuff because "Hey, it works!" and that sort of attitude "I'm happy with what my body does, for the most part, and I can work to make it better in parts, and I can accept the parts I can't do much with." is the one I try to stick with.
So for you, I think focusing on function and acceptance while giving kids a (small, so small) reality check about what the larger world is likely to be like is helpful. Nothing wrong with pinching your daughter's belly, but don't use terminology that, if she were to hear it from other people, might be an insult. And telling kids that insulting people by talking about their bodies is not really that cool (and insults generally are sort of not great). So working towards subjective health approaches is a lot better than assuming there's a normative body type (I know you know this, just thinking of ways to talk about it) and talking about how body and brain and actions and feelings are all part of who we are.
posted by jessamyn at 12:52 PM on March 14, 2018 [8 favorites]
So for you, I think focusing on function and acceptance while giving kids a (small, so small) reality check about what the larger world is likely to be like is helpful. Nothing wrong with pinching your daughter's belly, but don't use terminology that, if she were to hear it from other people, might be an insult. And telling kids that insulting people by talking about their bodies is not really that cool (and insults generally are sort of not great). So working towards subjective health approaches is a lot better than assuming there's a normative body type (I know you know this, just thinking of ways to talk about it) and talking about how body and brain and actions and feelings are all part of who we are.
posted by jessamyn at 12:52 PM on March 14, 2018 [8 favorites]
I don't think there is any deep, dark meaning to a five-year-old saying his dad is fat - I think it's just a little kid making an observation. He's noticing that bodies come in different shapes and sizes.
One thing you might do is introduce your kids to media (kid-safe, obviously!) that celebrates bodies of all different shapes, sizes, genders, races, abilities, etc. Little kids are making sense of their world, and discovering the variety in it. Dad is fat, and he's not the only fat guy out there! Mom is thin, and she's not the only thin person out there. And so on in all the varieties of humans in the world.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 1:31 PM on March 14, 2018 [4 favorites]
One thing you might do is introduce your kids to media (kid-safe, obviously!) that celebrates bodies of all different shapes, sizes, genders, races, abilities, etc. Little kids are making sense of their world, and discovering the variety in it. Dad is fat, and he's not the only fat guy out there! Mom is thin, and she's not the only thin person out there. And so on in all the varieties of humans in the world.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 1:31 PM on March 14, 2018 [4 favorites]
Best answer: I think your impulse to treat it as a neutral, objective statement, and neither show offense nor (if he meant to offend) encourage your son to think that these words are an effective way to anger or hurt fat people, is very good and the best way to react. you can, if you think he needs to hear it, be very straightforward and say: some people say that to hurt other people's feelings, but it doesn't work on me because there's nothing wrong with being fat. I know that and now you know it too. It's always mean to try to hurt people, and also very silly to do it that way.
but the other thing.
I do things like pinch my beautiful girl's belly fat and kvell over it, and she giggles and giggles. Should I quit that stuff?
at three your daughter's probably way too young to be aware of any meanings or descriptions you attach to her body, much less mind them. and three-year-olds barely have body types, so who knows if you'll even be inclined or able to do this in a few years, when she's more aware of what she's being praised or affectionately teased about. but I ask you, with respect, please reconsider this approach over the next couple of years, no matter how affectionate and free of meanness it is on your end (and it clearly is.)
you can do a lot to shape your childrens' views of their bodies and the values they place on them, but not everything. while you should definitely model body positivity, you should not bank on your daughter feeling good about her dad calling her "chunky" or treating her stomach as a thing to notice and poke at. she might! she might never feel appraised or separated into 'parts' by this kind of attention. clearly she doesn't now.
but with the best will in the world, I am not sure that is possible to maintain for more than a few years. I don't mean you shouldn't try to implant positive messages and behave naturally and be enthusiastic and complimentary about her physicality. but I do think maybe quit this particular angle before she's school-age. definitely by the time she's school-age try to regulate yourself out of characterizing and contrasting the kids' body types (though maybe you don't do it out loud even now.) whatever you decide to do, if you end up with one or more rounder or larger kids, don't treat their bodies as differently funny or differently cute than the others'. especially if the only one in that category is the only girl.
posted by queenofbithynia at 2:25 PM on March 14, 2018 [5 favorites]
but the other thing.
I do things like pinch my beautiful girl's belly fat and kvell over it, and she giggles and giggles. Should I quit that stuff?
at three your daughter's probably way too young to be aware of any meanings or descriptions you attach to her body, much less mind them. and three-year-olds barely have body types, so who knows if you'll even be inclined or able to do this in a few years, when she's more aware of what she's being praised or affectionately teased about. but I ask you, with respect, please reconsider this approach over the next couple of years, no matter how affectionate and free of meanness it is on your end (and it clearly is.)
you can do a lot to shape your childrens' views of their bodies and the values they place on them, but not everything. while you should definitely model body positivity, you should not bank on your daughter feeling good about her dad calling her "chunky" or treating her stomach as a thing to notice and poke at. she might! she might never feel appraised or separated into 'parts' by this kind of attention. clearly she doesn't now.
but with the best will in the world, I am not sure that is possible to maintain for more than a few years. I don't mean you shouldn't try to implant positive messages and behave naturally and be enthusiastic and complimentary about her physicality. but I do think maybe quit this particular angle before she's school-age. definitely by the time she's school-age try to regulate yourself out of characterizing and contrasting the kids' body types (though maybe you don't do it out loud even now.) whatever you decide to do, if you end up with one or more rounder or larger kids, don't treat their bodies as differently funny or differently cute than the others'. especially if the only one in that category is the only girl.
posted by queenofbithynia at 2:25 PM on March 14, 2018 [5 favorites]
I think when your "solid 5 yo son" calls you fat, he is really saying 'you're fat, but I'm not' because he fears being seen as fat himself, and needs to define himself as 'not fat'.
I highly doubt that a five year old is capable of such a complex judgment, and if you attribute this to him you're in danger of reinforcing the social construct that fat = bad. As others have said, modeling confidence in your own body type, a healthy lifestyle (which does not mean that you will become thin, rather that you can be healthy and still not be thin), and a matter-of-fact attitude towards your appearance will be the best way to not create a complex in your children.
BTW, thank you for asking this. I know too many people - whose parents were probably of my parents' generation, who've have had irreversible psychological damage done to them thanks to negative criticisms of their bodies or certain body parts by their parents.
posted by Everydayville at 3:22 PM on March 14, 2018 [3 favorites]
I highly doubt that a five year old is capable of such a complex judgment, and if you attribute this to him you're in danger of reinforcing the social construct that fat = bad. As others have said, modeling confidence in your own body type, a healthy lifestyle (which does not mean that you will become thin, rather that you can be healthy and still not be thin), and a matter-of-fact attitude towards your appearance will be the best way to not create a complex in your children.
BTW, thank you for asking this. I know too many people - whose parents were probably of my parents' generation, who've have had irreversible psychological damage done to them thanks to negative criticisms of their bodies or certain body parts by their parents.
posted by Everydayville at 3:22 PM on March 14, 2018 [3 favorites]
Best answer: It’s never nice to call someone fat, even if that someone agrees with you. Even if it’s a fact. That’s the lesson to give your son here. He probably doesn’t realize it’s not nice. Anything else is projecting... This is not about body image or fat-shaming. It’s about five-year olds’ utter lack of tact.
Signed, Mom of a 3-year old and a 5-year old.
posted by amro at 3:58 PM on March 14, 2018 [1 favorite]
Signed, Mom of a 3-year old and a 5-year old.
posted by amro at 3:58 PM on March 14, 2018 [1 favorite]
with regard to the boy, two things:
1. he does need to know that it's considered impolite to comment on other people's body shapes, regardless of the comment made. It's just one of those things. Like picking the nose. It's just not done outside the house. It's ok with parents.
2. model for him that there's nothing wrong with being fat. He's just observing, now; but it won't be long before societal prejudices start infecting him, so do what you can to make your home a judgment-free place. It starts with "yep, everyone's body is different. Fat, thin, tall, short, brown, pale, freckly, muscly, wrinkly, hairy, smooth, bumpy. Humans come in lots of shapes."
with regard to the girl, yeah I'd stop pinching at her tummy if you don't do it to the boys as well. It's just not a good idea. Love and pat and squeeze her in the same way you do the other kids.
posted by fingersandtoes at 4:08 PM on March 14, 2018 [3 favorites]
1. he does need to know that it's considered impolite to comment on other people's body shapes, regardless of the comment made. It's just one of those things. Like picking the nose. It's just not done outside the house. It's ok with parents.
2. model for him that there's nothing wrong with being fat. He's just observing, now; but it won't be long before societal prejudices start infecting him, so do what you can to make your home a judgment-free place. It starts with "yep, everyone's body is different. Fat, thin, tall, short, brown, pale, freckly, muscly, wrinkly, hairy, smooth, bumpy. Humans come in lots of shapes."
with regard to the girl, yeah I'd stop pinching at her tummy if you don't do it to the boys as well. It's just not a good idea. Love and pat and squeeze her in the same way you do the other kids.
posted by fingersandtoes at 4:08 PM on March 14, 2018 [3 favorites]
Best answer: This great post on A Mighty Girl includes book recommendations for boosting body image self esteem for all ages
posted by peanut_mcgillicuty at 4:41 PM on March 14, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by peanut_mcgillicuty at 4:41 PM on March 14, 2018 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: Thanks everyone! I'm thinking through every answer here.
with regard to the girl, yeah I'd stop pinching at her tummy if you don't do it to the boys as well.
I am extremely physical with all of my kids, and they all have different ticklish zones. I pinch the girls belly because that is one of hers. Each boy has different and unique ticklish zones that I ruthlessly exploit. My concern is more about the larger cultural issues of pinching her stomach.
posted by OmieWise at 7:05 PM on March 14, 2018 [2 favorites]
with regard to the girl, yeah I'd stop pinching at her tummy if you don't do it to the boys as well.
I am extremely physical with all of my kids, and they all have different ticklish zones. I pinch the girls belly because that is one of hers. Each boy has different and unique ticklish zones that I ruthlessly exploit. My concern is more about the larger cultural issues of pinching her stomach.
posted by OmieWise at 7:05 PM on March 14, 2018 [2 favorites]
Agreeing with fingersandtoes -- generalize it and teach that we don't make fun of anybody's size, be they tall or short or fat or thin. In fact, there's no need to mention any of those at all, even when not aiming to insult someone.
posted by wryly at 10:55 AM on March 15, 2018
posted by wryly at 10:55 AM on March 15, 2018
My mom was obese when I was young. I never mentioned her weight, even as a very small child, because I knew she was unhappy about it. But when I thought about her size in comparison to others, and thought "mommy is fat" it was because I had already heard over and over again how unhealthy it supposedly was, and I assumed this meant she would die sooner. This was definitely a thing by age 4-5.
Kids do project, but I wouldn't necessarily assume it's about his own insecurities unless there have been other signs or he's reported being teased about it. My guess is he's more likely sensitive to how you (and those who resemble you) are treated, discussed, and valued by others around him.
It's uphill going, but you can model healthy self-esteem and happiness in your own skin, which goes a long way towards teaching that yeah, we have different shapes, but they're all good.
posted by notquitemaryann at 11:37 AM on March 15, 2018
Kids do project, but I wouldn't necessarily assume it's about his own insecurities unless there have been other signs or he's reported being teased about it. My guess is he's more likely sensitive to how you (and those who resemble you) are treated, discussed, and valued by others around him.
It's uphill going, but you can model healthy self-esteem and happiness in your own skin, which goes a long way towards teaching that yeah, we have different shapes, but they're all good.
posted by notquitemaryann at 11:37 AM on March 15, 2018
Response by poster: It’s Okay To Be Different, Todd Parr.
Thanks, we've got other Todd Parr books, but I hadn't seen this one.
I think when your "solid 5 yo son" calls you fat, he is really saying 'you're fat, but I'm not' because he fears being seen as fat himself, and needs to define himself as 'not fat'.
I appreciate this comment. I can see how that might play out, although I don't think it does in this case. I would also read "solid" as a potential codeword for "fleshy," from which it's a short step to "fat." In this case, though, I was actually searching for a synonym for "thin." The youngest boy is so thin, that the 5yo looks solid in comparison, but he's just bigger. He's got defined abs & visible ribs.
posted by OmieWise at 11:27 AM on April 22, 2018
Thanks, we've got other Todd Parr books, but I hadn't seen this one.
I think when your "solid 5 yo son" calls you fat, he is really saying 'you're fat, but I'm not' because he fears being seen as fat himself, and needs to define himself as 'not fat'.
I appreciate this comment. I can see how that might play out, although I don't think it does in this case. I would also read "solid" as a potential codeword for "fleshy," from which it's a short step to "fat." In this case, though, I was actually searching for a synonym for "thin." The youngest boy is so thin, that the 5yo looks solid in comparison, but he's just bigger. He's got defined abs & visible ribs.
posted by OmieWise at 11:27 AM on April 22, 2018
This thread is closed to new comments.
So, when kids tell me I'm fat, I just agree, say something like "Yep. And I have brown hair too." and move on.
posted by youcancallmeal at 11:57 AM on March 14, 2018 [15 favorites]