There goes the neighborhood...

July 26, 2017 1:20 PM

My partner and I are trying to rent out our house. The tenants of the house next door have put up a sign in their window that I think is discouraging/will discourage people from renting our house. I don't know what to do about it.

So, my partner and I are buying a new house and want to rent out our current house. The tenants of the other half of the duplex (i.e., our next door neighbors), who recently moved in, have a sign prominently displayed in their front window that says:

Attention Burglars
[Picture of a big gun]
Please carry ID with you
So we can notify
Your next of kin

I am very worried that this sign is going to scare off any prospective tenants, but I'm not sure what to do about it, and am afraid that if I ask them to take it down, they will react violently (all my interactions with them until now have been entirely pleasant, but they also have this horrible sign up in their window that is basically them threatening to kill people, so, you know).

We are working with a property management company to find renters, if that's relevant. Also, I have never met the owner of the house next door, just the tenants (2 college-aged bros and their girlfriends and their three dogs). Also, this is the lowest-crime neighborhood in Philadelphia.

posted by coppermoss to Human Relations (41 answers total)

For what it's worth, I'm a life-long renter, and I'd be alarmed by this sign, not because I would question the safety of the neighborhood, but because I would think living next door to these people would be unpleasant.
posted by Automocar at 1:25 PM on July 26, 2017 [80 favorites]

Yes, I'm sorry to say that as someone who recently went through the rental process a sign like that would definitely make me cross your duplex off my list. I would not want to deal with living next to the kind of people who would put up that sign.

You say that you've never met the owner, just the tenants - is there any way you can find out who the owner is? Maybe they're reasonable and would be willing to help if you explained the situation?

Otherwise, if these are college kids next door maybe they're just being dumb and immature. Is there one you think might be more reasonable if you could talk to him/her on their own? Again, perhaps if you could explain your concern in as neutral of a way as you can muster, they might be willing to take the damn thing down.
posted by DingoMutt at 1:30 PM on July 26, 2017 [6 favorites]

Take over a plate of cookies and ask them to take it down. If they've been pleasant, and you bring them nomnoms, they will at least be nice about it if they say no.
posted by DoubleLune at 1:39 PM on July 26, 2017 [17 favorites]

am afraid that if I ask them to take it down, they will react violently (all my interactions with them until now have been entirely pleasant
I think you're horriblizing a bit (I recognize, because I do it too). Ask the friendliest one, explain why, the worst is they'll say no. It is highly unlikely they will do anything threatening to you, because to them, it's just a jokey sign they haven't really thought through.
posted by sageleaf at 1:42 PM on July 26, 2017 [17 favorites]

I wouldn't move in to a duplex next to that sign if I had a choice, and it's also an invitation to burglary. Stolen guns are fairly valuable for use in committing other crime. In most states, you can't legally kill someone simply for taking your laptop or cell phone. That sign is almost certainly not a deterrent. It's more like a 'steal me' sign.
posted by cnc at 1:55 PM on July 26, 2017 [4 favorites]

If it were me I'd go over with a plate of cookies or a six pack or whatever seems welcome and ask them for help.
Tell them you're in the middle of looking for a tenant and you think their scary sign is scaring off potential tenants - would they be willing to take it down until you've found a tenant?

Even if they refuse or laugh in your face or something I don't see a reason to expect violence from them solely on account of that sign.
posted by Omnomnom at 1:55 PM on July 26, 2017 [12 favorites]

The sign sends a message that burglary is a problem around your neighborhood. Go over to your neighbors, bring some cookies, ask them pretty please if they could take it down while you get your place rented. Offer to get them another sign (my neighborhood has a few that say SMILE YOU'RE ON CAMERA which I think is less alarming.)

Doesn't need to be a big deal.
posted by fingersandtoes at 1:55 PM on July 26, 2017 [7 favorites]

Just ask them to take it down until they have met the new renters. Once the new renters know them, and how cool they are, the sign won't matter. Be nice about it.
posted by Oyéah at 1:55 PM on July 26, 2017 [1 favorite]

If the political climate wasn't what it currently is, I *may* have considered your apartment if I liked everything else about it.

However, especially as a person of color, this would be an immediate no for me because your neighbors' sign conjures up very unpleasant stereotypes (regardless of whether or not these people actually fit them.) In my experience, individuals that are similarly vocal about the use of firearms - as well as those who believe jokes in that vein are amusing - share ideals that are less than inclusive.
posted by Everydayville at 1:59 PM on July 26, 2017 [15 favorites]

Nope nope nope this sign is totally inappropriate. Worse than implying that the crime is worse than it is, it very effectively communicates that they are assholes and probably racist. (I'm sure they don't think it's racist. I'm sure they're like "naw we want everyone to think we're badass, including white people!" I'm also sure that they are prone to some profiling.)

I'd possibly start with a note or quick visit explaining that their sign is offensive, asking for attempted burglary of their valuable weaponry, and preventing prospective tenants from wanting to be their next-door neighbors.

And I'd be perfectly comfortable snitching straight to the owners of the house, frankly, as this sort of behavior reduces their property value.
posted by desuetude at 2:13 PM on July 26, 2017

I have seen lease agreements that prohibit posting of any kind of signage that is viewable from the street. I would start with the owner and see if that's the case.
posted by danny the boy at 2:44 PM on July 26, 2017 [7 favorites]

Wait is the sign the property of college kids living in the duplex? Because if so this problem can be solved with cookies and cash.
posted by DarlingBri at 2:44 PM on July 26, 2017 [4 favorites]

If a six-pack and asking nicely doesn't do it, I'd offer them $100 to make the problem go away. Assuming you don't think they would actively come up with new ways of interfering with your rental process to extort further concessions.
posted by grouse at 2:59 PM on July 26, 2017

Seconding the person who said that some (maybe even many? most?) leases prohibit displaying these kinds of signs. My partner and I are accidental landlords, and the lease we have our tenants sign -- which is a standard, got-the-template from the internet kind of a lease -- prohibits this in a clause deep down in the document that I'm sure few even read. And if it were me, I would way rather talk to the home owner than the person -- howsoever nice they may be -- who thought it was a good idea or a funny thing to hang up this sign.

Contact the owner. Also, I really wouldn't go the cookies-beer-cash route. If you're about to be landlords, you should start practicing your best most professional, impersonal, by-the-book, going through the proper channels, letter of the law kind of self when it comes to your home and your community. Ask me how I know that such practice will come in handy later...
posted by pinkacademic at 3:34 PM on July 26, 2017 [3 favorites]

do you think their landlord would like it if the situation was reversed? appeal to their landlord. landlord to landlord. tell the landlord you won't allow signs and flags if they don't. and, as a landlord, I have had a similar situation so I gave them notice in detail about the lease that they signed that said no decorations without my approval including signs and flags. they moved out rather than change. good riddance.

and people saying bribe the tenants is a bad idea. what if I were Black and you had bribed the tenants to take a Confederate flag out of their window and then I move in unaware. I'd be really pissed.
posted by cda at 3:35 PM on July 26, 2017 [2 favorites]

Response by poster: Do you have any advice on figuring out who the landlord is/how to get in touch with them?
posted by coppermoss at 3:47 PM on July 26, 2017

Finding the landlord/owner/property management company is probably most easily determined by paying a visit to your county's Department of Property Records. Most of them are now online. With the address, you can look up the owner information, usually in the form of who the property tax bill gets sent to. Or just call the county and ask. There's almost certainly licensing stuff on record with the city, too, for rentals, so you could also call the city and ask them about the owner.
posted by Lunaloon at 3:58 PM on July 26, 2017 [2 favorites]

Have you checked the land registry or equivalent record in your jurisdiction? That should tell you the owner.
posted by koahiatamadl at 3:58 PM on July 26, 2017

This is an issue between you and you neighbors. Having their landlord come down on them instead of you talking to them is passive aggressive and seems more likely to lead to an escalation.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 4:19 PM on July 26, 2017 [17 favorites]

You said they're college kids and their girlfriends? They're probably more scared of you than you are of them. Go over and ask nicely, and go from there!
posted by katypickle at 5:02 PM on July 26, 2017 [3 favorites]

I'd just talk to them about it. Worst that can happen, they get all pissed and reveal that they are actually not nice people. Then you can stop guessing, maybe think about what you'll do going forward. Best case scenario they take it down, you get a sense of them, and forge a new friendship.
posted by vrakatar at 5:08 PM on July 26, 2017

I don't see any downside to going over and (nicely! with smiles! low-key!) asking them if they would temporarily take the sign down while you get the place rented. Personally I'd duck the entire second amendment stuff by just saying that you are worried that the sign will make people think that crime is a problem, but really it will just depend on how they are. I mean, maybe they put it up ironically as a joke and don't actually believe in armed self defense -- there is no way to know without having that conversation.
posted by Dip Flash at 5:12 PM on July 26, 2017 [6 favorites]

I would definitely not go over their head to the landlord first. Asking nicely for college bros, no problem. Going over to the landlord puts you in the position of the bad guy in like every college movie ever, they may think it hilarious to try other means of discouraging your renters.
posted by corb at 5:25 PM on July 26, 2017 [7 favorites]

I feel for you. Your neighbors seem to have put you between a rock and a hard place. But I would counsel against appealing to the landlord before you so much as step next door and talk with them. In my experience, and especially since they are college kids, the probability that you can solve it by just talking with them is about 99% provided you don't show up on their doorstep with an attitude. Most people—yes, even people who hang a sign like that in their window—like to help other people, especially people they know. Explain your situation and I'll bet they'll be happy to take it down. And if that doesn't work, at least you won't appear to be a total dick if you end up having to go to the landlord.
posted by bricoleur at 5:48 PM on July 26, 2017

Yeah, try to approach them nicely. I'll just say that I have lived in relatively high-crime neighbourhoods in Philly, and I would rather live there than next to someone with that sign.
posted by 256 at 5:49 PM on July 26, 2017

This is an issue between you and you neighbors. Having their landlord come down on them instead of you talking to them is passive aggressive and seems more likely to lead to an escalation.

There are two kinds of answers in this thread. One that treats this as a relationship problem between neighbors, and one that treats this as an issue between two business owners who don't live on premises. I don't think it's a stretch to say that many folks are coming at this from their experience as renters/neighbors, and not as landlords.

Considering you don't live there anymore, and that there will likely be many generations of tenants on both properties, I suggest you develop a cordial working relationship with your property-owner neighbor. Someone upthread asked what you would want to have happen if the situation was reversed, and your tenants were making it difficult for your neighbor to rent their house. For me the answer is absolutely not "negotiate directly with my tenants", for like, multiple reasons...
posted by danny the boy at 5:59 PM on July 26, 2017 [11 favorites]

Considering you don't live there anymore

It's not unequivocally clear from the OP, but it seems that they do, in fact, still live next door to these people. As long as that is the case, being neighborly trumps being businesslike, from both the human and, most likely, the business perspective. But if and when that is no longer the case, negotiating with the landlord would be the more socially acceptable avenue and more likely to result in success.
posted by bricoleur at 6:59 PM on July 26, 2017

"Dude, Your sign's totally hysterical, but someone just pointed out that it gives off the impression that we live in a dangerous neighborhood. I'm trying to rent out the place next door and don't want to scare anyone off. Here's a case of beer if you'll take it down for a few weeks. Tha'd totally rock. Your awesome!"
posted by Vaike at 7:35 PM on July 26, 2017 [10 favorites]

Property records lookup for Philadelphia.
posted by desuetude at 7:41 PM on July 26, 2017

The sign is literally threatening personal harm and people are acting surprised that you feel threatened?? Do we live in the same world?! I absolutely don't think this should be your problem! Is it in your lease that you have to help find new tenants? Can you not just ask whoever is in charge of the lease to contact the other duplex tenants to tell them to take down the sign?
posted by masquesoporfavor at 7:57 PM on July 26, 2017 [2 favorites]

Sorry I guess I'm not clear based on the wording here. Do you also live in the duplex or in a house NEXT to the duplex? The "other half" threw me off.
posted by masquesoporfavor at 8:00 PM on July 26, 2017

FWIW, there is no chance in hell I would knock on the door, unannounced, of a person with a sign like that in their window.
posted by My Dad at 8:57 PM on July 26, 2017 [5 favorites]

Where does your voting precinct fall on the blue - red continuum? This site is deep blue, so it's not surprising posters agree with your view. The farther your precinct falls from from the deep blue end of the political spectrum, the less the sign will be a problem. Here is a precinct map for 2016 election. There are others. If you know your precinct number, it's probably easier to find it on text based results unless you know the shape of the precinct.
posted by Homer42 at 11:25 PM on July 26, 2017

Not to argue with others' responses, but just to offer a contrasting data point: I live in one of the most politically left U. S. cities and see variations on this sign all the time. The most common one has a picture of a revolver and says "Never mind the dog, beware of owner." I find it distasteful but unremarkable, and as far as I can tell, one of these signs on a house is not much of a predictor of what kind of people live there (politically, culturally, temperamentally).

Now, part of the context is that there really is a ton of property crime here, and police are ineffective, so almost everyone does something to try to ward off burglars (whether by fence, window bars, a dog in the yard, a security system, or just stupid signage); anyone who is used to it knows that it isn't a reflection on the friendliness of the people. Maybe none of this is at all normative in your low-crime area. But maybe your recently arrived neighbors don't know that. Given that you've already interacted with them and found them pleasant, I think you can talk to them about their sign without fearing the worst.
posted by aws17576 at 3:56 PM on July 27, 2017 [4 favorites]

One more thing: it's also possible that your neighbors aren't particularly worried about burglary, and that this just appeals to their sense of humor. Which, again, I would find distasteful and immature, but not necessarily indicative of a violent nature. The owner of a comic shop I used to patronize put up a sign that said "Shoplifters will be beaten to death." Yuck. But he was an OK guy and it was 100% black humor to him. It's not that unusual.
posted by aws17576 at 4:10 PM on July 27, 2017

leave it be. Prospective renters have the right to know what kind of living situation (including neighbors) they are gettibg into.
posted by pintapicasso at 2:31 AM on July 28, 2017

> Where does your voting precinct fall on the blue - red continuum? This site is deep blue, so it's not surprising posters agree with your view. The farther your precinct falls from from the deep blue end of the political spectrum, the less the sign will be a problem.

They already said they're in Philadelphia, so, that'd be one of those very dark blue spots on the map.

Anyway, in the decidedly more conservative area where I grew up, putting a sign like this on the outside of your house would have gotten you shunned by your neighbors. It's one thing to make a snarky remark among friends along these lines, it's quite another to decorate your house with a threat for passers-by.
posted by desuetude at 7:05 AM on July 28, 2017

Your interactions up to now have been all right? Ask them about the sign. Is it a joke or is it their perception that they have to worry about break-ins? If they seem not too defensive/not too heavily invested in it, you could mention your concerns about potential tenants thinking it's a high-crime area. Then of course, there are potential (valid) concerns about your neighbors being jerks. I do think putting up such a sign suggests insensitivity at the very least. Talking to them might give some indication of how serious that problem is.
posted by BibiRose at 8:42 AM on July 28, 2017

Stressing that this may be less sincere and more a burglary deterrent. My 90-year old grandmother would put signage like this in her front door because she was afraid of living alone. It's worth checking before you take the nuclear option.
posted by corb at 9:00 AM on July 28, 2017

I would not want to live next to gun people, so I would be glad they warned me about themselves. Let some like-minded people move in. If it's fake, though, that would be a different story.

One way or the other, you and your partner should talk to the neighbors about this move: "Hi, we're moving out, strangers are moving in, people from the moving company may be coming by, etc. Just thought you would like to know." And that's the time to ask them about the sign: "By the way, I noticed the sign. Is that for real or just a bluff to scare off bad guys? Just curious. I don't own a gun myself. Sometimes thought about it. Never could make up my mind..." (Leaving it open to them making a recommendation one way or the other.)

If you need to make the explanation more solid: "Anyway, there are going to be strangers moving in, and they, like everyone else, will have friends and family who will drop by. And being new to the place, they may even walk up the wrong path some night and knock on the wrong door. I want nobody hurt over misunderstandings or bad handwriting or whatever."
posted by pracowity at 5:19 AM on July 29, 2017

Response by poster: Update: never got around to talking to the neighbors about the sign, but we found tenants in spite of it. Thanks for all your advice!
posted by coppermoss at 1:02 PM on August 26, 2017 [1 favorite]