Relationships, marriages, co-workers, ugliness
December 17, 2016 10:06 PM Subscribe
Firstly, I have had (more than) a bit to drink tonight, so I apologize in advance for the following. Though I think it's only by drinking that I am able to write this in the first place. :P It's probably more honest that way, anyway.
Firstly, I have had (more than) a bit to drink tonight, so I apologize in advance for the following. Though I think it's only by drinking that I am able to write this in the first place. :P It's probably more honest that way, anyway.
Here's the background: I've always had a great relationship with one of my co-workers, we really get along. She's been on mat-leave for the last 9 months, so I had not seen much of her. But she came in for a work party the other month, and I suggested we grab a coffee, to catch up. The catch-up was fun. So, we had another. And another. And over the course of a few months, things have progressed to the point where she is now texting me multiple times a day, every day. The tone of our interactions has gone from being just friendly, to flirty. And tonight she admitted to being attracted to me, by txt.
Honestly I had no intention of things going this way when I originally asked her out to coffee -- though I would be lying if I said I hadn't seen this coming for the last month or so. And I have gone along with it, every step of the way.
The logical part of my brain is very much No No No. This woman is married (her marriage is on the rocks). And she is my co-worker. But. But. I really do enjoy her. I am separated myself (not recently). And though I have been dating people off and on, so far at least, all of the women I have gone on dates with have seemed flat and uninteresting when compared with my co-worker.
In a different universe, different situation, I would not hesitate to make a move. But here. And now. I don't want to be the other man. And I don't want to create a mess at work. (We're a small shop.)
I have told my co-worker exactly this, by txt. She is going away for a week, and we have agreed to meet up for a coffee when she gets back, to discuss this.
I am not sure exactly what I am even asking, here. Maybe, if any of you have found yourselves in a similar situation, how did you navigate it? (Respectfully, please refrain from judging. I know that I should have put a stop to this back when I first felt the vibe. But I didn't, because I liked it. And a part of me really wants to say, the hell with it, maybe this could work, and maybe it could be amazing...) Has this situation ever worked out for anyone, ever?
Hivemind, tell me not to be a douche. Tell me to smarten up.
Firstly, I have had (more than) a bit to drink tonight, so I apologize in advance for the following. Though I think it's only by drinking that I am able to write this in the first place. :P It's probably more honest that way, anyway.
Here's the background: I've always had a great relationship with one of my co-workers, we really get along. She's been on mat-leave for the last 9 months, so I had not seen much of her. But she came in for a work party the other month, and I suggested we grab a coffee, to catch up. The catch-up was fun. So, we had another. And another. And over the course of a few months, things have progressed to the point where she is now texting me multiple times a day, every day. The tone of our interactions has gone from being just friendly, to flirty. And tonight she admitted to being attracted to me, by txt.
Honestly I had no intention of things going this way when I originally asked her out to coffee -- though I would be lying if I said I hadn't seen this coming for the last month or so. And I have gone along with it, every step of the way.
The logical part of my brain is very much No No No. This woman is married (her marriage is on the rocks). And she is my co-worker. But. But. I really do enjoy her. I am separated myself (not recently). And though I have been dating people off and on, so far at least, all of the women I have gone on dates with have seemed flat and uninteresting when compared with my co-worker.
In a different universe, different situation, I would not hesitate to make a move. But here. And now. I don't want to be the other man. And I don't want to create a mess at work. (We're a small shop.)
I have told my co-worker exactly this, by txt. She is going away for a week, and we have agreed to meet up for a coffee when she gets back, to discuss this.
I am not sure exactly what I am even asking, here. Maybe, if any of you have found yourselves in a similar situation, how did you navigate it? (Respectfully, please refrain from judging. I know that I should have put a stop to this back when I first felt the vibe. But I didn't, because I liked it. And a part of me really wants to say, the hell with it, maybe this could work, and maybe it could be amazing...) Has this situation ever worked out for anyone, ever?
Hivemind, tell me not to be a douche. Tell me to smarten up.
This post was deleted for the following reason: poster's request -- Eyebrows McGee
This situation has never worked out for anyone, ever.
You do not date married women. You do not date married women with a newborn. You do not date married women you work with, in a small company, who have a newborn. You do not date married women, in a small company, with a newborn, who are clearly having marital problems and running away from them by flirting with you.
I am sending you refreshing yet bracing slaps across the internet. Whatever fun you think this will be, it is not worth it.
posted by mochapickle at 10:13 PM on December 17, 2016 [101 favorites]
You do not date married women. You do not date married women with a newborn. You do not date married women you work with, in a small company, who have a newborn. You do not date married women, in a small company, with a newborn, who are clearly having marital problems and running away from them by flirting with you.
I am sending you refreshing yet bracing slaps across the internet. Whatever fun you think this will be, it is not worth it.
posted by mochapickle at 10:13 PM on December 17, 2016 [101 favorites]
Best answer: The (possibly not-so-)secret dream underneath all of this for you (and possibly for her) is that you'll be the getaway car to take her away from her bad marriage, and that you'll drive off into the sunset, and that it will be happily ever after.
This is a common dream. But this is never the outcome.
Cut it off: kindly, clearly, and completely.
If she needs to end her marriage, she needs to do it on her own terms without thinking of you as the white knight waiting for her. And if you're to go on and find a new and healthy relationship of your own, it needs to be with someone who is already single and ready to date.
I know all of this because, yes, I've been in this situation. Twice. Once I did the wrong thing, and it brought me happiness in the short run and grief in the long run. The next time I did the right thing, and it brought me grief in the short run and happiness in the long run.
posted by the return of the thin white sock at 10:18 PM on December 17, 2016 [51 favorites]
This is a common dream. But this is never the outcome.
Cut it off: kindly, clearly, and completely.
If she needs to end her marriage, she needs to do it on her own terms without thinking of you as the white knight waiting for her. And if you're to go on and find a new and healthy relationship of your own, it needs to be with someone who is already single and ready to date.
I know all of this because, yes, I've been in this situation. Twice. Once I did the wrong thing, and it brought me happiness in the short run and grief in the long run. The next time I did the right thing, and it brought me grief in the short run and happiness in the long run.
posted by the return of the thin white sock at 10:18 PM on December 17, 2016 [51 favorites]
No coffee. No discuss. Nothing to discuss. No more meeting outside of work.
Consider finding a new workplace if possible.
posted by sacchan at 10:19 PM on December 17, 2016 [26 favorites]
Consider finding a new workplace if possible.
posted by sacchan at 10:19 PM on December 17, 2016 [26 favorites]
Nope, because nope. Two red flags that I see. One, she is married with a young child at home. You don't want to get yourself involved in that with a ten foot people. Her marriage may be on the way out like you said, but she needs to figure that out and things would be very messy for you to be involved. Two, the fact that you guys work together complicates thing even more. Kindly, the best thing you can do for the both of you right now is to end things and not meet up again.
posted by snowysoul at 10:26 PM on December 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by snowysoul at 10:26 PM on December 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
I've got this!
NUMBER ONE - her hormones are really effecting her feelings. You have no idea. After my son was born, I used to be able to sense the Earth "breathing." I was astounded years later to find this was not unique! So while you both are sharing a genuine attraction....
NUMBER TWO - most couples that separate and divorce, do so within a year or two of having a child. Man, it's the worst most stressful change to a marriage. Ever. Bar none. It's crisis time. She's in crisis.
Her family can recover if she and her husband start counseling + you back the fuck off. Or you can cause her family to break apart.
What do you want to do here?
posted by jbenben at 10:33 PM on December 17, 2016 [37 favorites]
NUMBER ONE - her hormones are really effecting her feelings. You have no idea. After my son was born, I used to be able to sense the Earth "breathing." I was astounded years later to find this was not unique! So while you both are sharing a genuine attraction....
NUMBER TWO - most couples that separate and divorce, do so within a year or two of having a child. Man, it's the worst most stressful change to a marriage. Ever. Bar none. It's crisis time. She's in crisis.
Her family can recover if she and her husband start counseling + you back the fuck off. Or you can cause her family to break apart.
What do you want to do here?
posted by jbenben at 10:33 PM on December 17, 2016 [37 favorites]
You are reacting to the fantasy of this. The reality is you'd be a homewrecker and playing second fiddle to a drooling, diaper-messing newborn baby who will need, and deserves, 20 times the attention from its mother than you will ever get. Or worse, the baby doesn't get that attention it requires during these crucial formative months because mommy is off with some guy she works with. Don't be that guy. Reality will be so much harsher than you are imagining.
posted by cecic at 10:46 PM on December 17, 2016 [17 favorites]
posted by cecic at 10:46 PM on December 17, 2016 [17 favorites]
I can't stress enough how emotionally sensitive and open this woman is right now via her status as a mother of a newborn. You're probably completely lovely, and so seem to her better than you are in terms of partnership... The truth is that her partner and father of their child is her husband. And he's having a hard time right now. And you are already contributing to their discord.
Being great parents means keeping the marriage healthy. That's the low bar that's hard to achieve with someone like you providing weirdness. Stop interfering. Wish this family well and get out of this situation which is none of your business.
posted by jbenben at 10:47 PM on December 17, 2016 [9 favorites]
Being great parents means keeping the marriage healthy. That's the low bar that's hard to achieve with someone like you providing weirdness. Stop interfering. Wish this family well and get out of this situation which is none of your business.
posted by jbenben at 10:47 PM on December 17, 2016 [9 favorites]
If you want to be a good guy, give her a list of other people that you know about, in her life, to turn to for support: her Mom, her friends by name, sympathetic female coworkers, a new mothers' group that you look up. When she gets back, set her up on a group lunch that you _don't_ attend (if you can, include at least one person that you know doesn't like you, so you'll be extra sure not to go). Give her other options, make those other options prominent and easy for her, and then remove yourself as an option.
If you just want to be an OK guy, find other things for yourself to do. Make steps to find other people. It's challenging these days, but its doable. Find a meetup. Set up a Metafilter IRL event. Ask other coworkers to lunch or drinks. Plan ahead to talk about things other than this new mother you've been spending so much time on -- this will also be challenging, but think about what you're interested in: cooking? movies? specific things you're working on with your coworkers?
posted by amtho at 11:09 PM on December 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
If you just want to be an OK guy, find other things for yourself to do. Make steps to find other people. It's challenging these days, but its doable. Find a meetup. Set up a Metafilter IRL event. Ask other coworkers to lunch or drinks. Plan ahead to talk about things other than this new mother you've been spending so much time on -- this will also be challenging, but think about what you're interested in: cooking? movies? specific things you're working on with your coworkers?
posted by amtho at 11:09 PM on December 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
Her marriage is most likely rocky because she just had a baby. You know how people are always saying we should support people who have babies? The way you do that is by being a friend, not by macking on her now while her whole life is in turmoil
I have a friend who just had a baby with a certified jackass. I'd be thrilled if she left him. But not for some guy at work, that's a TERRIBLE idea all round. It will make nothing better- it gives jackass a reason to blame her for ruining the relationship when it's really his fault, it potentially messes up her financial stability and it puts her right into another relationship with a guy who sleeps with married women who are new mothers.
posted by fshgrl at 11:11 PM on December 17, 2016 [5 favorites]
I have a friend who just had a baby with a certified jackass. I'd be thrilled if she left him. But not for some guy at work, that's a TERRIBLE idea all round. It will make nothing better- it gives jackass a reason to blame her for ruining the relationship when it's really his fault, it potentially messes up her financial stability and it puts her right into another relationship with a guy who sleeps with married women who are new mothers.
posted by fshgrl at 11:11 PM on December 17, 2016 [5 favorites]
You stop skydiving by not jumping out of planes. Or at least not opening doors on airplanes in flight.
You stop a possible emotional affair by not flirting. Not meeting socially, period. Especially not alone. You stop texting. You stop having coffee meetings to 'discuss our relationship'
Even if she is a great match, this is entirely the worst time. You have a ton of logical reasons to not pursue this. They are sound, and smart, and sane. Give her a year, or three. If she worked on her marriage, separated, divorced, and is interested, well, then you know. And you did the honorable thing; especially by waiting for her hormones and life to settle down.
Also, if you pursue and get caught, what if you get fired? What if SHE gets fired? How do you bear that?
posted by Jacen at 11:13 PM on December 17, 2016 [5 favorites]
You stop a possible emotional affair by not flirting. Not meeting socially, period. Especially not alone. You stop texting. You stop having coffee meetings to 'discuss our relationship'
Even if she is a great match, this is entirely the worst time. You have a ton of logical reasons to not pursue this. They are sound, and smart, and sane. Give her a year, or three. If she worked on her marriage, separated, divorced, and is interested, well, then you know. And you did the honorable thing; especially by waiting for her hormones and life to settle down.
Also, if you pursue and get caught, what if you get fired? What if SHE gets fired? How do you bear that?
posted by Jacen at 11:13 PM on December 17, 2016 [5 favorites]
Response by poster: I appreciate the responses. This is of course the answer I knew already. But it's helpful to have it vocalized, strongly.
posted by rabbitfufu at 11:32 PM on December 17, 2016 [15 favorites]
posted by rabbitfufu at 11:32 PM on December 17, 2016 [15 favorites]
If one more voice helps--sweet baby Jesus, do the right thing and walk far far away from the situation. And please don't get further involved by setting up some lunch with her mom and girlfriends. Or suggesting she get counseling with her husband. Just one text that says, "Hey, X. You are a lovely person but I need to step back from this for quite a number of reasons. I wish you and your family all the best." And then DO NOT ENGAGE.
posted by whitewall at 12:08 AM on December 18, 2016 [15 favorites]
posted by whitewall at 12:08 AM on December 18, 2016 [15 favorites]
I don't have kids myself. But I've been in a position myself where a female friend--I'm also female, and nonstraight--has suddenly become incredibly attentive to me and made romantic overtures during that precise time period. And I just want to say that yes, you need to put a stop to this, but that I get why you wound up in this position. I initially read it as, "with a baby in the house, she wouldn't be acting like this unless she REALLY REALLY REALLY liked me". But it's really the opposite of that, and I wish I'd known that at the time. It happened in a more minor way a second time after that with a completely different friend and made me realize that it's just A Thing, and it was my responsibility to pull back and maintain a little more distance with people with very young kids in future.
My experience suggests that even if the bad marriage part of this wasn't in the picture, she probably still wouldn't be making the time/energy for you six months from now, so I guess the up side is that you're really almost certainly not sacrificing anything by backing off now, just avoiding the short period of intense drama (and long-term consequences thereof) that would happen otherwise.
posted by Sequence at 12:32 AM on December 18, 2016 [2 favorites]
My experience suggests that even if the bad marriage part of this wasn't in the picture, she probably still wouldn't be making the time/energy for you six months from now, so I guess the up side is that you're really almost certainly not sacrificing anything by backing off now, just avoiding the short period of intense drama (and long-term consequences thereof) that would happen otherwise.
posted by Sequence at 12:32 AM on December 18, 2016 [2 favorites]
You already know what to do—just came to offer a some words to repeat to yourself that might help keep you focused.
Your current tack holds a world of pain for everyone involved. Ending this right now may be momentarily uncomfortable, but it's a decision neither of you will live to regret.
posted by she's not there at 1:24 AM on December 18, 2016
Your current tack holds a world of pain for everyone involved. Ending this right now may be momentarily uncomfortable, but it's a decision neither of you will live to regret.
posted by she's not there at 1:24 AM on December 18, 2016
It sounds like you know what you should do by this point. As for the how-to, head on over to the "No Contact" guidelines threads on loveshack.org. They will hook you up and steel your brain for what's to come next.
The part about her being a mom of an infant struck me. Unless you're a complete douche, which you aren't, you have to consider the impact it would have on this baby if you were to get romantically/physically involved. There's no scenario that doesn't detract from her ability to give the baby the attention it needs.
Remind her the baby is her focus, encourage her to find therapy or support so she can get to her own place of clarity about her marriage, and then take a big step out of the way.
posted by phreckles at 3:04 AM on December 18, 2016
The part about her being a mom of an infant struck me. Unless you're a complete douche, which you aren't, you have to consider the impact it would have on this baby if you were to get romantically/physically involved. There's no scenario that doesn't detract from her ability to give the baby the attention it needs.
Remind her the baby is her focus, encourage her to find therapy or support so she can get to her own place of clarity about her marriage, and then take a big step out of the way.
posted by phreckles at 3:04 AM on December 18, 2016
a guy who sleeps with married women who are new mothers.
You know when people say, "Don't be that guy"? You are kind of being "that guy" right now, and it really isn't something that you want to be known for.
Don't meet for coffee to discuss, or have long late-night phone conversations (or worse, conversations about it at work). Cut off the social contact and limit your interactions to purely professional ones at work when required. Move on and find someone new, and she can figure out her marriage just fine without you.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:45 AM on December 18, 2016 [2 favorites]
You know when people say, "Don't be that guy"? You are kind of being "that guy" right now, and it really isn't something that you want to be known for.
Don't meet for coffee to discuss, or have long late-night phone conversations (or worse, conversations about it at work). Cut off the social contact and limit your interactions to purely professional ones at work when required. Move on and find someone new, and she can figure out her marriage just fine without you.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:45 AM on December 18, 2016 [2 favorites]
From another angle... both of you are likely to suffer professionally from an affair too. You think this won't get out at work?? Especially in a small shop? You're risking your job here. And... you're risking the job of a (possibly soon to be) single mother of an infant. If you care about her think about the worst case situations for her life, and her kid's life. Even in a best case situation work wise, you will always be That Guy, and she will always be That Woman to the rest of your coworkers. Stop now!!
I know she's doing the reaching out and a lot of this is on her, but you really don't want to participate in any of this mess!
posted by Caravantea at 7:53 AM on December 18, 2016 [2 favorites]
I know she's doing the reaching out and a lot of this is on her, but you really don't want to participate in any of this mess!
posted by Caravantea at 7:53 AM on December 18, 2016 [2 favorites]
we have agreed to meet up for a coffee when she gets back, to discuss this.
Cancel this. There is nothing to negotiate. Just stop.
posted by sadmadglad at 8:09 AM on December 18, 2016 [5 favorites]
Cancel this. There is nothing to negotiate. Just stop.
posted by sadmadglad at 8:09 AM on December 18, 2016 [5 favorites]
Nothing's hotter than talking about how you'll just have to secretly be in love with each other because your love is forbidden. So ...that's not a good idea.
posted by chesty_a_arthur at 9:03 AM on December 18, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by chesty_a_arthur at 9:03 AM on December 18, 2016 [4 favorites]
No, don't go on your lil drama date with her. All it will do is heighten and prolong the drama which is of course what you want as it's exciting but is a terrible idea.
The reason your dates have all felt flat in comparison is because you haven't built up this whole dramatic forbidden fruit fantasy about them. She might be great but she's not magic; the magic is the naughtiness, the fantasy, the drama. She can't save you from your life nor you from hers.
Mat leave as in, she just had a baby? How much of a disaster do you really want to contribute to?
You know what to do. You know this is a fantasy that as soon as it became real would be boring, messy, ugly, and flat like the rest of all of our boring messy flat lives.
Per your request for a reality check: grow the f up and snap out of it pal!
posted by kapers at 9:31 AM on December 18, 2016
The reason your dates have all felt flat in comparison is because you haven't built up this whole dramatic forbidden fruit fantasy about them. She might be great but she's not magic; the magic is the naughtiness, the fantasy, the drama. She can't save you from your life nor you from hers.
Mat leave as in, she just had a baby? How much of a disaster do you really want to contribute to?
You know what to do. You know this is a fantasy that as soon as it became real would be boring, messy, ugly, and flat like the rest of all of our boring messy flat lives.
Per your request for a reality check: grow the f up and snap out of it pal!
posted by kapers at 9:31 AM on December 18, 2016
Don't go out for coffee. That's just a way for the two of you to have a date while pretending you are being good.
posted by Alluring Mouthbreather at 9:47 AM on December 18, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Alluring Mouthbreather at 9:47 AM on December 18, 2016 [2 favorites]
Best answer: I'm clearly coming at this from a very different perspective from most other answers, and one that's decidedly in the minority and therefore probably wrong.
But, the idea that the woman you're interested in can't be trusted to make her own decisions, 'cause hormones, seems incredibly ugly and dismissive of her agency. Your prospective date is a big girl, and even if she makes decisions we wouldn't make for her, she's entitled to do so. The default metafilter assumption that preserving monogamous marriage is always a good thing and that the tribe needs to rally in order to defend it shows a real lack of imagination and compassion. (I love my spouse. But pretending marriage isn't awful for most people most of the time is just silly.)
History is full of terrible marriages that ended, to everyone's benefit, because of an office romance. And, history is full of secret romantic indiscretions that have enriched the lives of people otherwise confined to soul-crushing boredom with no ill consequences at all. History of also full of terrible decisions that have ruined great marriages and left people in personal and financial distress. Which case applies here is something none of us can tell you. Trusting your prospective date to figure out which one is true seems like a pretty basic level of respect that I'd hope you'd grant anyone you're interested in bedding.
I assume neither of you are in an official position of authority over the other. (If that's not true, then stop right now and go wash your mouth out with soap.) You should expect that this will end badly, ruin your workplace interactions, and that one of you will have to quit for the good of the firm. Since being an out-of-work single mother is fucking awful, you'd better try hard to make sure the person who quits is you. If it's still worth it, then I say, go for it.
Life if short. Marriage is mostly awful. Pretending otherwise in the interest of propriety will only lead to death bed regrets.
posted by eotvos at 9:53 AM on December 18, 2016 [6 favorites]
But, the idea that the woman you're interested in can't be trusted to make her own decisions, 'cause hormones, seems incredibly ugly and dismissive of her agency. Your prospective date is a big girl, and even if she makes decisions we wouldn't make for her, she's entitled to do so. The default metafilter assumption that preserving monogamous marriage is always a good thing and that the tribe needs to rally in order to defend it shows a real lack of imagination and compassion. (I love my spouse. But pretending marriage isn't awful for most people most of the time is just silly.)
History is full of terrible marriages that ended, to everyone's benefit, because of an office romance. And, history is full of secret romantic indiscretions that have enriched the lives of people otherwise confined to soul-crushing boredom with no ill consequences at all. History of also full of terrible decisions that have ruined great marriages and left people in personal and financial distress. Which case applies here is something none of us can tell you. Trusting your prospective date to figure out which one is true seems like a pretty basic level of respect that I'd hope you'd grant anyone you're interested in bedding.
I assume neither of you are in an official position of authority over the other. (If that's not true, then stop right now and go wash your mouth out with soap.) You should expect that this will end badly, ruin your workplace interactions, and that one of you will have to quit for the good of the firm. Since being an out-of-work single mother is fucking awful, you'd better try hard to make sure the person who quits is you. If it's still worth it, then I say, go for it.
Life if short. Marriage is mostly awful. Pretending otherwise in the interest of propriety will only lead to death bed regrets.
posted by eotvos at 9:53 AM on December 18, 2016 [6 favorites]
Response by poster: Good morning. Well, thanks again everyone for your responses. I have put a stop to this, and I feel better for it.
Respectfully, I disagree with all of the advice to go no-contact, and am of the opinion at least one more coffee needs to happen. This has nothing to do with finding a way to secretly have another 'forbidden' date -- as has been suggested above -- and everything to do with preserving a good working relationship with someone who I deeply respect. My co-worker summed it up: "I need to look you in the eye, to be sure that we are both cool." This makes complete sense to me. And because we are both mature adults, I see no reason why this needs to turn into a big dramatic 'thing.'
posted by rabbitfufu at 10:04 AM on December 18, 2016 [1 favorite]
Respectfully, I disagree with all of the advice to go no-contact, and am of the opinion at least one more coffee needs to happen. This has nothing to do with finding a way to secretly have another 'forbidden' date -- as has been suggested above -- and everything to do with preserving a good working relationship with someone who I deeply respect. My co-worker summed it up: "I need to look you in the eye, to be sure that we are both cool." This makes complete sense to me. And because we are both mature adults, I see no reason why this needs to turn into a big dramatic 'thing.'
posted by rabbitfufu at 10:04 AM on December 18, 2016 [1 favorite]
After the baby is born and your co-worker comes in smelling of vomit and poop, I predict the bloom will soon be off the rose.
posted by BostonTerrier at 10:42 AM on December 18, 2016
posted by BostonTerrier at 10:42 AM on December 18, 2016
And because we are both mature adults
HA! That is the LAST thing either of you are being right now.
There is nothing to "discuss." One brief "As I'm sure you know, we need to return to keeping our work relationship a strictly professional one. Best regards, Rabbitfufu" text or e-mail, and then keep your damn distance.
You started this saying "Hivemind, tell me not to be a douche," and despite the hive having told you that the coffee is bullshit, are still stumping for the coffee. Preserving a good working relationship = no more coffee.
The "both mature adults" thing really made me sigh. No. You are not seeing this as a mature adult would. A mature adult would knock if off immediately. You favourited the only answer telling you to go forward with being a douche.
Just end the flirtation and keep everything professional. Cut it off -- not in person -- stop replying to personal messages.
IF her marriage falls to hell, well, stick around and wait about two years until the divorce/custody/support issues are hopefully winding down to a conclusion, and until she has found her footing as a cheerful, independent single mother, not a confused and unhappy woman going from one bad relationship straight into another with a guy she barely knows when she has a toddler occupying the majority of her time. If she's not so fabulous that you can't put her on the back burner for a couple of years, it is definitely not worth going forward and being a homewrecker here. Taking advice from a person with the view that "Marriage is mostly awful" is really the blind leading the blind, and, re-reading your question, not at all the sort of thing you claimed to have come in here for.
(I live next door to a "homewrecker." The whole street knows what happened there; people are unfailingly sympathetic to the ex who moved out once she found out what was going on, and the new young blonde and her perpetually ill-mannered husband are persona non grata in the neighbourhood. There's a big stigma attached to that word for very sound reasons. But if you wait and behave as the "mature adult" you're claiming to be, it becomes a very different deal.)
In re. "The default metafilter assumption that preserving monogamous marriage is always a good thing and that the tribe needs to rally in order to defend it shows a real lack of imagination and compassion" -- that is not the default assumption here, far from it. Many marriage questions get a "DTMFA" pile-on. The default is that if a marriage needs to end, it should end in a mutually respectful manner, and that there are good ways and bad ways to end them. Coffee Co-worker is already having an emotional affair behind her husband's back; C.C. probably doesn't need to hurt him further. If she wants to pursue OP, she should get her affairs in order first.
posted by kmennie at 12:22 PM on December 18, 2016 [9 favorites]
HA! That is the LAST thing either of you are being right now.
There is nothing to "discuss." One brief "As I'm sure you know, we need to return to keeping our work relationship a strictly professional one. Best regards, Rabbitfufu" text or e-mail, and then keep your damn distance.
You started this saying "Hivemind, tell me not to be a douche," and despite the hive having told you that the coffee is bullshit, are still stumping for the coffee. Preserving a good working relationship = no more coffee.
The "both mature adults" thing really made me sigh. No. You are not seeing this as a mature adult would. A mature adult would knock if off immediately. You favourited the only answer telling you to go forward with being a douche.
Just end the flirtation and keep everything professional. Cut it off -- not in person -- stop replying to personal messages.
IF her marriage falls to hell, well, stick around and wait about two years until the divorce/custody/support issues are hopefully winding down to a conclusion, and until she has found her footing as a cheerful, independent single mother, not a confused and unhappy woman going from one bad relationship straight into another with a guy she barely knows when she has a toddler occupying the majority of her time. If she's not so fabulous that you can't put her on the back burner for a couple of years, it is definitely not worth going forward and being a homewrecker here. Taking advice from a person with the view that "Marriage is mostly awful" is really the blind leading the blind, and, re-reading your question, not at all the sort of thing you claimed to have come in here for.
(I live next door to a "homewrecker." The whole street knows what happened there; people are unfailingly sympathetic to the ex who moved out once she found out what was going on, and the new young blonde and her perpetually ill-mannered husband are persona non grata in the neighbourhood. There's a big stigma attached to that word for very sound reasons. But if you wait and behave as the "mature adult" you're claiming to be, it becomes a very different deal.)
In re. "The default metafilter assumption that preserving monogamous marriage is always a good thing and that the tribe needs to rally in order to defend it shows a real lack of imagination and compassion" -- that is not the default assumption here, far from it. Many marriage questions get a "DTMFA" pile-on. The default is that if a marriage needs to end, it should end in a mutually respectful manner, and that there are good ways and bad ways to end them. Coffee Co-worker is already having an emotional affair behind her husband's back; C.C. probably doesn't need to hurt him further. If she wants to pursue OP, she should get her affairs in order first.
posted by kmennie at 12:22 PM on December 18, 2016 [9 favorites]
Sorry, but you can look each other in the eye and say, 'we cool?' at work when you see her after her maternity leave is over in a few months time. With your co-workers in the vicinity, not alone, and then you can go back to your work and not talk. Nothing is preventing you from doing that, if that's what you feel the need to do. You know what else mature adults do? Not text each other about having a mutual attraction when they are unavailable, so forgive me when I say that you guys don't have a great track record re: maturity.
I'm not trying to be harsh, but unless you secretly hope for something to happen, then don't meet for coffee. Meeting for coffee after you've established you have a mutual attraction for each other? That's like buying a firecrakcer, lighting the fuse, and expecting to blow the fuse out with your breath before the firework goes off. Sure its possible, but why light it in the first place?
It's always easier to avoid temptation than to resist it. Avoid meeting her now.
posted by Dimes at 12:50 PM on December 18, 2016 [2 favorites]
I'm not trying to be harsh, but unless you secretly hope for something to happen, then don't meet for coffee. Meeting for coffee after you've established you have a mutual attraction for each other? That's like buying a firecrakcer, lighting the fuse, and expecting to blow the fuse out with your breath before the firework goes off. Sure its possible, but why light it in the first place?
It's always easier to avoid temptation than to resist it. Avoid meeting her now.
posted by Dimes at 12:50 PM on December 18, 2016 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: Hmm, well, at the risk of threadsitting, I will briefly respond to your comments, kmennie. I did not favourite the answer "telling me to go forward with being a douche." I favourited the answer I felt did not immediately presume to know what is best in my situation, and instead suggested I weigh the consequences, and decide accordingly. As it happens, that decision which I have now made is (mostly) inline with the rest of the advice here. So thanks to everyone for helping me to see that clearly.
Re no-contact... I agree that some distance is probably prudent. However, I have been friends with this person a long time, and I'm not convinced we can't continue to be friends. My feeling is that the key to getting over weirdness, at least in this case, is not to cut all ties -- but to acknowledge it, and then move past it. (This is the desirable solution, not least because in a few months we are going to find ourselves working across a desk again.) If I am mistaken about this, and I continue to feel a 'vibe', then no-contact is what I'll have to do. But right now I am feeling (relatively) confident that it's already a non-issue. Sorry, but y'all are just going to have to trust me on this.
Anyhow, thanks again to everyone for weighing in on my melodrama. I shant chime in again.
posted by rabbitfufu at 1:58 PM on December 18, 2016
Re no-contact... I agree that some distance is probably prudent. However, I have been friends with this person a long time, and I'm not convinced we can't continue to be friends. My feeling is that the key to getting over weirdness, at least in this case, is not to cut all ties -- but to acknowledge it, and then move past it. (This is the desirable solution, not least because in a few months we are going to find ourselves working across a desk again.) If I am mistaken about this, and I continue to feel a 'vibe', then no-contact is what I'll have to do. But right now I am feeling (relatively) confident that it's already a non-issue. Sorry, but y'all are just going to have to trust me on this.
Anyhow, thanks again to everyone for weighing in on my melodrama. I shant chime in again.
posted by rabbitfufu at 1:58 PM on December 18, 2016
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by mynameisluka at 10:12 PM on December 17, 2016 [37 favorites]