Help me understand my introverted(?) friends better
December 8, 2016 11:02 AM Subscribe
Many of my friendships are driven by me — I’ll be the one to suggest the next date. In some of my relationships I do this 100% of the time, according to my calendar. (I'm married, mid-30s.)
I realized that people I like often describe themselves as very shy, or introverted, or mention that they have trouble making friends or are “not good at email”.
I'm a little insecure so I tend to interpret this as rejection. I’d like to understand my friends a bit better so I don’t do that.
These are usually good friendships, we have a great time together, I’ll get an occasional invite back. But I find myself driving them. If I don’t follow up with the next idea, I might not hear back… ever. I’ve had that happen a couple times.
I’m chalking it up to relationship-passivity right now, as opposed to my friends just not liking me very much. I’m a little insecure so it’s a struggle to remind myself of that, sometimes!
I’m also extremely good at keeping up with people, calendaring, responding to email etc. So it’s hard for me to understand people who aren’t.
If you are someone who “isn’t good at email” or are introverted or are otherwise passive in your relationships — can you tell me more about why? It is it about dislike, or something else? Does it bother you if a friendship kind of “goes away” for that reason, or do you not think about it that way? What else should I know about you?
Thanks!
These are usually good friendships, we have a great time together, I’ll get an occasional invite back. But I find myself driving them. If I don’t follow up with the next idea, I might not hear back… ever. I’ve had that happen a couple times.
I’m chalking it up to relationship-passivity right now, as opposed to my friends just not liking me very much. I’m a little insecure so it’s a struggle to remind myself of that, sometimes!
I’m also extremely good at keeping up with people, calendaring, responding to email etc. So it’s hard for me to understand people who aren’t.
If you are someone who “isn’t good at email” or are introverted or are otherwise passive in your relationships — can you tell me more about why? It is it about dislike, or something else? Does it bother you if a friendship kind of “goes away” for that reason, or do you not think about it that way? What else should I know about you?
Thanks!
Response by poster: I won't babysit the thread, but people do usually respond when I email them. It's just that I have to take the initiative. Thanks for asking that question.
posted by thumpasor at 11:08 AM on December 8, 2016
posted by thumpasor at 11:08 AM on December 8, 2016
Best answer: As an introvert, I don't reach out/take initiative because I don't want to bother my friends and loved ones. It's not that I don't love or care about them - it's kind of the opposite.
posted by INFJ at 11:10 AM on December 8, 2016 [39 favorites]
posted by INFJ at 11:10 AM on December 8, 2016 [39 favorites]
Best answer: I'm maybe what you would call a gregarious introvert. Good at a party, literally need to collapse on the floor in silence for like a whole day after.
For me, when I am bad at email and friends, it's mostly a combination of:
1) I have the energy to do like one, maybe two things per week.
2) I hate turning people down because I fear they will take it personally, conversely, I also take rejection personally, so I hate to ask.
3) I am in a very different socioeconomic bracket from ~80% of my friends--namely I'm in a much lower one. This means I work a lot more, and less predictably.
4) My life is constant chaos and churn and just...yeah, putting "chaos" into a calendar is about as effective as you'd think.
So what this means is that (hypothetical) you email me, and I'm thinking:
hey! Thumpasor! I haven't seen thumpasor in ages! But holy shit, I'm working 3 jobs this week, AND somehow I'm supposed to put together a thing for partner's birthday, and fuck me running it is Christmas in 2 weeks, oh shit that means it's almost the 15th, I need to fucking fix my insurance before the 15th, whoops, the cat's sick. Sonofa...
...did I have an email? Well, whatever it was, it's buried under literally 34 work emails now. I'll try to get back to that tonight....
Yeah I have those friends who also work insane hours but manage to make plans every night of the week, but I am just not physically, financially, or emotionally capable of that.
INITIATING plans? Dear god, I haven't had the brain space to THINK of a plan since February.
So, you know. I'm probably not one of your actual friends but my friends don't really get to see the sad, destabilized disaster that is my life. Instead it just looks like I never make any plans and have to bail "for work" all the time, which I'm sure they think is a lie. Yes, I am sad when friendships drift away, but I find that the really good ones don't--or rather, they tend to resume seamlessly when there's a minute to breathe.
TL;DR you don't know, man, some of those friends might really be treading water in ways you don't know about. If they respond, they probably like you.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 11:17 AM on December 8, 2016 [27 favorites]
For me, when I am bad at email and friends, it's mostly a combination of:
1) I have the energy to do like one, maybe two things per week.
2) I hate turning people down because I fear they will take it personally, conversely, I also take rejection personally, so I hate to ask.
3) I am in a very different socioeconomic bracket from ~80% of my friends--namely I'm in a much lower one. This means I work a lot more, and less predictably.
4) My life is constant chaos and churn and just...yeah, putting "chaos" into a calendar is about as effective as you'd think.
So what this means is that (hypothetical) you email me, and I'm thinking:
hey! Thumpasor! I haven't seen thumpasor in ages! But holy shit, I'm working 3 jobs this week, AND somehow I'm supposed to put together a thing for partner's birthday, and fuck me running it is Christmas in 2 weeks, oh shit that means it's almost the 15th, I need to fucking fix my insurance before the 15th, whoops, the cat's sick. Sonofa...
...did I have an email? Well, whatever it was, it's buried under literally 34 work emails now. I'll try to get back to that tonight....
Yeah I have those friends who also work insane hours but manage to make plans every night of the week, but I am just not physically, financially, or emotionally capable of that.
INITIATING plans? Dear god, I haven't had the brain space to THINK of a plan since February.
So, you know. I'm probably not one of your actual friends but my friends don't really get to see the sad, destabilized disaster that is my life. Instead it just looks like I never make any plans and have to bail "for work" all the time, which I'm sure they think is a lie. Yes, I am sad when friendships drift away, but I find that the really good ones don't--or rather, they tend to resume seamlessly when there's a minute to breathe.
TL;DR you don't know, man, some of those friends might really be treading water in ways you don't know about. If they respond, they probably like you.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 11:17 AM on December 8, 2016 [27 favorites]
Best answer: Yup, what INFJ said. I also find I have to overcome a lot of inertia, for lack of a better word, when it comes to organizing. Once I'm in the moment and doing things, I tend to enjoy myself and people seem to think I'm pleasant enough to be around, but it often takes quite an effort of will to actually get myself out and doing a thing. That's arguably more "depression" than "introversion," but maybe it's useful info. I also tend to need a bit of time to myself to read a book, mess around with art or design, etc, in a self-directed sort of way, after going out and doing social things. So for instance after going out with coworkers one night last week, I stayed in completely the next night just to get back on an even keel.
I think I'm less "making plans/initiating contact" shy than some of your friends but I think some of this generalizes.
posted by Alterscape at 11:18 AM on December 8, 2016 [6 favorites]
I think I'm less "making plans/initiating contact" shy than some of your friends but I think some of this generalizes.
posted by Alterscape at 11:18 AM on December 8, 2016 [6 favorites]
Best answer: I am introverted and terrible at relationship upkeep. I *have* to be a driver in relationships at work, with my kids, with my partner, etc. so I am very grateful for people not in those categories who are like you.
I do a few things that I hope show my introverted love to my planner-friends. I reply quickly and commit one way or another when they extend invitations - including "I wish I could, thank you for thinking of me, please keep me in the loop for future events" with regrets. And I keep in weird non-sequitur-ish touch via text when I see/think of something that reminds me of them. So I'm probably never going to invite you to dinner, but I will send you pictures of snarky greeting cards I see that have inside jokes in them.
I don't offer the same things extroverts offer, but I do offer something to people I care about. See if you can figure out what these people are offering. If nothing, then they are friendly acquaintances and not *friends.* But they may be offering something you haven't noticed.
posted by headnsouth at 11:20 AM on December 8, 2016 [7 favorites]
I do a few things that I hope show my introverted love to my planner-friends. I reply quickly and commit one way or another when they extend invitations - including "I wish I could, thank you for thinking of me, please keep me in the loop for future events" with regrets. And I keep in weird non-sequitur-ish touch via text when I see/think of something that reminds me of them. So I'm probably never going to invite you to dinner, but I will send you pictures of snarky greeting cards I see that have inside jokes in them.
I don't offer the same things extroverts offer, but I do offer something to people I care about. See if you can figure out what these people are offering. If nothing, then they are friendly acquaintances and not *friends.* But they may be offering something you haven't noticed.
posted by headnsouth at 11:20 AM on December 8, 2016 [7 favorites]
Best answer: I guess I'm an introvert, although all the recent internet hoopla about how it's okay to be an introvert makes me reluctant to accept the label. I could happily go without seeing people (other than my husband) for a long, long time; I love my friends and family, but I just don't feel like I need to see them in person very often.
I don't think this is all down to personality styles, though: people are also busy and tired. Amongst my friends, even though I'm introverted I often have to be the one to initiate plans because my life is the least complicated; others have jobs with atypical schedules or kids to drive around to soccer practice or volunteer commitments. When you combine your average middle class weekday exhaustion with somebody who often feels drained rather than energized by social commitments, well... I'm childless with a 9:00 to 5:00 job and even so it's pretty hard to get me out of the house on a weeknight.
You may also be more of an organizer type of person than the average person - the fact that you keep a calendar by which you can reference past social commitments leads me to believe this is the case. (And I'm a career executive assistant who loves that shit, too, so I'm not throwing shade.) We are people who are generally good at scheduling and managing the details of our lives, and it's easy to forget not everyone is this way.
posted by something something at 11:20 AM on December 8, 2016 [6 favorites]
I don't think this is all down to personality styles, though: people are also busy and tired. Amongst my friends, even though I'm introverted I often have to be the one to initiate plans because my life is the least complicated; others have jobs with atypical schedules or kids to drive around to soccer practice or volunteer commitments. When you combine your average middle class weekday exhaustion with somebody who often feels drained rather than energized by social commitments, well... I'm childless with a 9:00 to 5:00 job and even so it's pretty hard to get me out of the house on a weeknight.
You may also be more of an organizer type of person than the average person - the fact that you keep a calendar by which you can reference past social commitments leads me to believe this is the case. (And I'm a career executive assistant who loves that shit, too, so I'm not throwing shade.) We are people who are generally good at scheduling and managing the details of our lives, and it's easy to forget not everyone is this way.
posted by something something at 11:20 AM on December 8, 2016 [6 favorites]
Best answer: I am a terrible friend, in that I do love my people, but I usually don't want to hang out. I will hang out, assent to a date and follow through, or sometimes even initiate, as a form of "friendship vitamins". I don't want my relationships to wither altogether. But my ideal discretionary time is generally spent either alone or with Spouse Person.
posted by sandettie light vessel automatic at 11:21 AM on December 8, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by sandettie light vessel automatic at 11:21 AM on December 8, 2016 [10 favorites]
Best answer: My rough process of initiating contact:
It's been too soon, they won't want to hear from me yet.
OK its the right time but what if I say something stupid. I'll definitely look weird if I say that. Should I ask about x? No they might be upset or offended. God, imagine if I bitched about the wrong person. I bet they don't even like me really. They'll read it and roll their eyes.
Repeat this stage ad nauseum.
About three months later: oh god I can't write to them now I'll look ridiculous I bet they've forgotten who I am
(Yeah, I'm working on it)
posted by threetwentytwo at 11:22 AM on December 8, 2016 [9 favorites]
It's been too soon, they won't want to hear from me yet.
OK its the right time but what if I say something stupid. I'll definitely look weird if I say that. Should I ask about x? No they might be upset or offended. God, imagine if I bitched about the wrong person. I bet they don't even like me really. They'll read it and roll their eyes.
Repeat this stage ad nauseum.
About three months later: oh god I can't write to them now I'll look ridiculous I bet they've forgotten who I am
(Yeah, I'm working on it)
posted by threetwentytwo at 11:22 AM on December 8, 2016 [9 favorites]
Best answer: I don't think this has as much to do with introversion as you wanting friends with more going on and more ideas of things they want to do and to include you in them just like you like to include them in your ideas. Reciprocity is a thing!
posted by rhizome at 11:26 AM on December 8, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by rhizome at 11:26 AM on December 8, 2016 [5 favorites]
Best answer: I'm generally introverted and also terrified of rejection (family of origin issues) so I seldom initiate because I assume the other person would initiate if they actually wanted to see me and I'm scared of putting myself out there and finding that they don't.
It doesn't naturally occur to me at all that the person might be waiting for me to initiate plans, and this is something I have to consciously remind myself of whenever I'm wondering why I haven't heard from someone in a while.
posted by terretu at 11:28 AM on December 8, 2016 [6 favorites]
It doesn't naturally occur to me at all that the person might be waiting for me to initiate plans, and this is something I have to consciously remind myself of whenever I'm wondering why I haven't heard from someone in a while.
posted by terretu at 11:28 AM on December 8, 2016 [6 favorites]
Best answer: There are people that I've repeatedly made plans with and have never once reciprocated. I don't actually think it's because they dislike me, because I assume they would not accept invitations so readily. I actually think they aren't inviting anyone else to anything either. Which is cool but I'd rather have people in my life where I don't have to do all the work.
The idea that since someone is your friend you are obligated to keep inviting them to your plans is something right out of the Geek Social Fallacies. Maybe you should prioritize meeting new people who might want a more balanced friendship.
posted by grouse at 11:36 AM on December 8, 2016 [2 favorites]
The idea that since someone is your friend you are obligated to keep inviting them to your plans is something right out of the Geek Social Fallacies. Maybe you should prioritize meeting new people who might want a more balanced friendship.
posted by grouse at 11:36 AM on December 8, 2016 [2 favorites]
Best answer: I'm generally the initiator and I've found a couple things that help with my introverted friends. But beware, once you're the initiator it's hard to get out of that dynamic. They just figure that if you still like them, you'd initiate, since that's what you've been doing
- A standing date. Every week or two you have dinner/drinks/brunch. You only have to initiate once.
- Give them options: "Hey, what about a movie tomorrow night, or we could go bowling or have brunch on Sunday, what do you think?" If they say sure, put the rest of the planning on them. "OK, you pick the movie and tell me when/where and I'll be there."
- Put the next one back on them. After you hang out, as you're parting say "text me if you want to do something next weekend."
You should be able to tell if they don't like you by the % of invites they turn down/flake out on, and how they act when you do hang out. Do they seem like they're doing it out of obligation?
posted by AFABulous at 11:39 AM on December 8, 2016 [2 favorites]
- A standing date. Every week or two you have dinner/drinks/brunch. You only have to initiate once.
- Give them options: "Hey, what about a movie tomorrow night, or we could go bowling or have brunch on Sunday, what do you think?" If they say sure, put the rest of the planning on them. "OK, you pick the movie and tell me when/where and I'll be there."
- Put the next one back on them. After you hang out, as you're parting say "text me if you want to do something next weekend."
You should be able to tell if they don't like you by the % of invites they turn down/flake out on, and how they act when you do hang out. Do they seem like they're doing it out of obligation?
posted by AFABulous at 11:39 AM on December 8, 2016 [2 favorites]
Best answer: I am the person who does not usually drive the friendship, and much time can elapse before I think of contacting even people I really like. I usually have two or three people (including an S.O.) who I talk to very regularly to maintain a daily knowledge of ordinary life. And then there are people I have to talk to regularly, such as colleagues. But my very good friends, people I really am fond of and really like hanging out with? I am very rarely the initiator. The reason is probably counter-intuitive but may comfort you. My friends remain in my head. I feel as if they are with me; I'm thinking of them, feeling their friendship. So I don't exactly "miss" them. Ironically, outside of the two or three I talk to almost constantly, the closer I feel a friend internally, the less likely I am to remember to call them.
posted by flourpot at 11:41 AM on December 8, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by flourpot at 11:41 AM on December 8, 2016 [5 favorites]
Best answer: I think people fall into different roles within friendships. Or they are assigned different roles. Sometimes this is fine, sometimes not-so-much.
In one particular group, I'm the person who has remained in touch with everyone. Anyone in this group knows that I know everyone's contact info and at least general life situation. Not through any tremendous effort, I've just never had a falling out with any of them. I consider that a fine role.
I have had other friends who don't get in touch and don't stay in touch. After a certain amount of time, I tend to no longer consider them friends. It isn't out of anger or punishment - it's just, if we are never in touch, and you don't make any effort at all to be in touch, then we aren't really friends anymore.
It sounds like your role in the group is social director. You make plans, you get people together. It sounds like they happily get together when you make the plans. In a way that sounds positive, but then it isn't very reciprocal.
Have you tried initiating plans without suggesting specifics? "Do you guys want to get together soon? If so, do you have any ideas of what to do?" It might help shift the dynamic a little.
posted by Cranialtorque at 11:48 AM on December 8, 2016 [2 favorites]
In one particular group, I'm the person who has remained in touch with everyone. Anyone in this group knows that I know everyone's contact info and at least general life situation. Not through any tremendous effort, I've just never had a falling out with any of them. I consider that a fine role.
I have had other friends who don't get in touch and don't stay in touch. After a certain amount of time, I tend to no longer consider them friends. It isn't out of anger or punishment - it's just, if we are never in touch, and you don't make any effort at all to be in touch, then we aren't really friends anymore.
It sounds like your role in the group is social director. You make plans, you get people together. It sounds like they happily get together when you make the plans. In a way that sounds positive, but then it isn't very reciprocal.
Have you tried initiating plans without suggesting specifics? "Do you guys want to get together soon? If so, do you have any ideas of what to do?" It might help shift the dynamic a little.
posted by Cranialtorque at 11:48 AM on December 8, 2016 [2 favorites]
Best answer: Also a "gregarious introvert", I guess - 2nd everything said by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese.
If you are someone who “isn’t good at email” or are introverted or are otherwise passive in your relationships — can you tell me more about why? It is it about dislike, or something else?
It's not about dislike, it's about overwhelm (and in my case, like some others, lack of organizational skill). Though I can see this looking a lot like "fading out" in the absence of information.
Does it bother you if a friendship kind of “goes away” for that reason, or do you not think about it that way?
In my head the friendship has not necessarily "gone away" at all - I think fondly of the person, and still internally feel "close" to them. (I suspect FB contributes to this perception somewhat.) I know that friendship takes active work, and more frequent contact, it's just that I'm not always able to do that. That said, I think some other non-introverted friends sort of feel the same way, and do the same thing, for different reasons (e.g. they have children or other more demanding obligations). I think part of it might be life stage/age, in my case.
I think if the dynamic is unclear to you, if you're judging it based on initiation/frequency of contact, you have to sort of trust your memory of that relationship over time, and how things go when you do see them. Is it like no time has passed? Everything comfortable and good-feeling? If that's the case, and you can accept less frequent contact, and be happy to see them when you do, maybe it's a question of adjusting expectations and spreading more of your friendship around (if you're positioned to do that/have energy etc). It's fair to decide for yourself whether it's worth your energy/time, it may not be.
posted by cotton dress sock at 11:49 AM on December 8, 2016 [8 favorites]
If you are someone who “isn’t good at email” or are introverted or are otherwise passive in your relationships — can you tell me more about why? It is it about dislike, or something else?
It's not about dislike, it's about overwhelm (and in my case, like some others, lack of organizational skill). Though I can see this looking a lot like "fading out" in the absence of information.
Does it bother you if a friendship kind of “goes away” for that reason, or do you not think about it that way?
In my head the friendship has not necessarily "gone away" at all - I think fondly of the person, and still internally feel "close" to them. (I suspect FB contributes to this perception somewhat.) I know that friendship takes active work, and more frequent contact, it's just that I'm not always able to do that. That said, I think some other non-introverted friends sort of feel the same way, and do the same thing, for different reasons (e.g. they have children or other more demanding obligations). I think part of it might be life stage/age, in my case.
I think if the dynamic is unclear to you, if you're judging it based on initiation/frequency of contact, you have to sort of trust your memory of that relationship over time, and how things go when you do see them. Is it like no time has passed? Everything comfortable and good-feeling? If that's the case, and you can accept less frequent contact, and be happy to see them when you do, maybe it's a question of adjusting expectations and spreading more of your friendship around (if you're positioned to do that/have energy etc). It's fair to decide for yourself whether it's worth your energy/time, it may not be.
posted by cotton dress sock at 11:49 AM on December 8, 2016 [8 favorites]
Best answer: Before I had a kid, I was usually assuming that no one wanted to spend time with me, so I never reached out. I also tend to panic at the idea of spending time 1 on 1 with someone I don't know really well. I start worrying about what we'll talk about, how I'll not have anything interesting to say, etc. and would usually talk myself out of actually committing to anything.
Now I've got a kid and it's just made all of those things worse, because it's been so long since I did anything with my friends, I'm convinced that I'm a bad friend and no one wants to spend time with me. Just like the whole prospect of making conversation is even worse now because all I do is work, care for the toddler, and sleep, and who wants to hear about that.
So, I guess that's an anxious introvert's take on things.
posted by cabingirl at 12:00 PM on December 8, 2016 [4 favorites]
Now I've got a kid and it's just made all of those things worse, because it's been so long since I did anything with my friends, I'm convinced that I'm a bad friend and no one wants to spend time with me. Just like the whole prospect of making conversation is even worse now because all I do is work, care for the toddler, and sleep, and who wants to hear about that.
So, I guess that's an anxious introvert's take on things.
posted by cabingirl at 12:00 PM on December 8, 2016 [4 favorites]
Best answer: I'm like you! Or I was until I had my a baby, but I still am pretty extroverted and am OK with taking the lead in organizing social events. (I don't however, stay in contact with people very much who don't reciprocate at all or are always flakey... it just doesn't feel great.)
I think a lot of people in our age group (I'm also in my mid-30's) are just ... busy and overwhelmed a lot of times. I don't quite "get it" either, as I find relationships super important to me, and give me a lot of meaning in this adulting life which is so grinding sometimes, but I don't think everyone is that way.
I find just saying hi through texting, and see where people are at is easier than leaping into email with a big plan, etc. And if I get a hi! how's it going! miss you too! Then I might actually suggest a plan, or see when a good time to see each other in real life are.
I also have maybe 3-4 friends I consider ... very secure friendships, so I just assume we will connect when we can. And I can always reach out "Hey, wanna hang out? It's been awhile! I miss you!" ... and we understand it's important to do. It's tricky. I'm curious about this, too.
posted by Rocket26 at 12:00 PM on December 8, 2016
I think a lot of people in our age group (I'm also in my mid-30's) are just ... busy and overwhelmed a lot of times. I don't quite "get it" either, as I find relationships super important to me, and give me a lot of meaning in this adulting life which is so grinding sometimes, but I don't think everyone is that way.
I find just saying hi through texting, and see where people are at is easier than leaping into email with a big plan, etc. And if I get a hi! how's it going! miss you too! Then I might actually suggest a plan, or see when a good time to see each other in real life are.
I also have maybe 3-4 friends I consider ... very secure friendships, so I just assume we will connect when we can. And I can always reach out "Hey, wanna hang out? It's been awhile! I miss you!" ... and we understand it's important to do. It's tricky. I'm curious about this, too.
posted by Rocket26 at 12:00 PM on December 8, 2016
Best answer: I'm introverted - I have friends I really value who I see four or five times a year. I sometimes reach out, but obviously we don't coordinate often. This is because by the time I've done work, groceries, cat care, exercise, [metafilter], chores, etc, I'm really emotionally exhausted and it's difficult to make myself take initiative. I'm better at responding because part of the work has been done. But seriously, I don't see people more because it's hard for me to have the being-in-the-world energy after I've done all the other things.
One thing that really helps my social life: default socializing. Saturday is always reading group, or Thursday is always volunteer-at-friends'-project night, every other Sunday is always brunch, etc. (I don't have all those things set up right now.) Default socializing means that the burden is off the extrovert and the overall energy required to do the thing is pretty much only "get up in time for brunch, go to brunch". Can you set up a "let's get together for brunch on the first Sunday of every month" thing?
posted by Frowner at 12:03 PM on December 8, 2016 [5 favorites]
One thing that really helps my social life: default socializing. Saturday is always reading group, or Thursday is always volunteer-at-friends'-project night, every other Sunday is always brunch, etc. (I don't have all those things set up right now.) Default socializing means that the burden is off the extrovert and the overall energy required to do the thing is pretty much only "get up in time for brunch, go to brunch". Can you set up a "let's get together for brunch on the first Sunday of every month" thing?
posted by Frowner at 12:03 PM on December 8, 2016 [5 favorites]
Best answer: I'm pretty awful at initiating. Every year my top resolution is reach out more, and every year but two I have failed at it. Here are some reasons why:
1. Habit. I have a habit of doing a few things -- a regular wine night with one friend group, working out together with another friend, chatting a couple of friends online. But a habit I did not develop during my Bullied Youth is to come home at the end of the day and think "who could I call/what plans could I make?" In my particular case this was partly because I had very unpredictable parents who often made plans with friends hell, like "Call and cancel because [random chore I had no idea I had to do, like washing all the venetian blinds] is not done." It was also because I didn't really have great friends for a long time.
This sucks, I recognize it is a habit I need to change, and yet for me it is honestly harder than losing 30 lbs or exercising.
2. Bad experiences -- see above. I was raised in a hugely unpredictable household, where coming home every day you never knew whether you were going to get loving mom or angry mom. Phones freak me the f*** out. I am grateful for text and FB and email but even that feels...scary. Contacting someone when it might bother them is a high-wire act for me. So that makes #1 harder to break. It takes me about half an hr to work up the energy to contact someone out of the blue.
3. My life is something I enjoy but I don't really have amazing ideas for get togethers; I'm not up on the latest restaurants, and I really want to invite people home but right now I never know whether my elderly cat whom I adore has accidentally peed somewhere. I do have friends that I feel confident are fine with all that, but then there's this grey area of friends where I would love to invite them but...don't.
4. I have kids, the same crazy parents as mentioned above one of whom has a cognitive issue, and my mother-in-law lives with me...and my job has emergencies. I also get migraines from time to time. I have had to reschedule so many things that it embarrasses me. So that holds me back.
I will say...I am so, so grateful to my friends who are willing to do the emotional labour lifting of getting together. I understand that reciprocity is a thing and I recognize that this is a quirk in me that annoys many people, and have lost connections as a result. But for me what works best is as Frowner said, either default socializing or the other person initiating.
posted by warriorqueen at 12:13 PM on December 8, 2016 [1 favorite]
1. Habit. I have a habit of doing a few things -- a regular wine night with one friend group, working out together with another friend, chatting a couple of friends online. But a habit I did not develop during my Bullied Youth is to come home at the end of the day and think "who could I call/what plans could I make?" In my particular case this was partly because I had very unpredictable parents who often made plans with friends hell, like "Call and cancel because [random chore I had no idea I had to do, like washing all the venetian blinds] is not done." It was also because I didn't really have great friends for a long time.
This sucks, I recognize it is a habit I need to change, and yet for me it is honestly harder than losing 30 lbs or exercising.
2. Bad experiences -- see above. I was raised in a hugely unpredictable household, where coming home every day you never knew whether you were going to get loving mom or angry mom. Phones freak me the f*** out. I am grateful for text and FB and email but even that feels...scary. Contacting someone when it might bother them is a high-wire act for me. So that makes #1 harder to break. It takes me about half an hr to work up the energy to contact someone out of the blue.
3. My life is something I enjoy but I don't really have amazing ideas for get togethers; I'm not up on the latest restaurants, and I really want to invite people home but right now I never know whether my elderly cat whom I adore has accidentally peed somewhere. I do have friends that I feel confident are fine with all that, but then there's this grey area of friends where I would love to invite them but...don't.
4. I have kids, the same crazy parents as mentioned above one of whom has a cognitive issue, and my mother-in-law lives with me...and my job has emergencies. I also get migraines from time to time. I have had to reschedule so many things that it embarrasses me. So that holds me back.
I will say...I am so, so grateful to my friends who are willing to do the emotional labour lifting of getting together. I understand that reciprocity is a thing and I recognize that this is a quirk in me that annoys many people, and have lost connections as a result. But for me what works best is as Frowner said, either default socializing or the other person initiating.
posted by warriorqueen at 12:13 PM on December 8, 2016 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I'm like you, but a friend once told me that the introverted column in this comic sums up her passivity and lack of initiative in relationships pretty well.
posted by anderjen at 12:14 PM on December 8, 2016 [13 favorites]
posted by anderjen at 12:14 PM on December 8, 2016 [13 favorites]
Best answer: You mentioned email... literally none of my friends use email anymore. Maybe only to send a large attachment. Do you try other methods of contact? My conversations are 60% Facebook messenger, 30% text and 10% Twitter DM. My friends are between 25-45 years old.
posted by AFABulous at 12:17 PM on December 8, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by AFABulous at 12:17 PM on December 8, 2016 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I'm pretty introverted. My best friend lives on the opposite coast for me - I see her maybe once a year. And, honestly, that is totally fine with me. Whenever we get together, it's like no time has passed and it's really fun. Other local friends I have, I see maybe 1x a month, or every couple months. And again, this is enough for me. Being social for me is a lot of emotional work. I can do it, and most people seem to think I'm fine when we hang out. But after a social engagement, I just want to be left alone with my spouse for awhile. Sometimes it'll be weeks before I hang out with a friend again. This is also because I have to engage with people at work, which also drains my emotional tank.
So, for me, it's not about dislike if I'm not calling you up as my friend. I'm usually just emotionally exhausted, and I already feel close to you that I don't need to see you frequently. I also do the random texting thing to keep in touch that headnsouth described above. I've lost most of my extroverted friends at this point, and it's mostly because they didn't understand that I didn't want to hang out so often, and it didn't mean I hated them, it just meant I needed more space to feel emotionally level.
Also, I agree with what others said above that some people just aren't planners. I tend to try to plan things occasionally, and I have the same problems you described of getting people to respond or getting them to initiate things themselves for once.
I would say, in your situation, I'd just take your introvert friends at face value. Unless they tell you they dislike you and don't want to see you anymore, they are probably just busy/emotionally drained/etc.
posted by FireFountain at 12:37 PM on December 8, 2016 [4 favorites]
So, for me, it's not about dislike if I'm not calling you up as my friend. I'm usually just emotionally exhausted, and I already feel close to you that I don't need to see you frequently. I also do the random texting thing to keep in touch that headnsouth described above. I've lost most of my extroverted friends at this point, and it's mostly because they didn't understand that I didn't want to hang out so often, and it didn't mean I hated them, it just meant I needed more space to feel emotionally level.
Also, I agree with what others said above that some people just aren't planners. I tend to try to plan things occasionally, and I have the same problems you described of getting people to respond or getting them to initiate things themselves for once.
I would say, in your situation, I'd just take your introvert friends at face value. Unless they tell you they dislike you and don't want to see you anymore, they are probably just busy/emotionally drained/etc.
posted by FireFountain at 12:37 PM on December 8, 2016 [4 favorites]
Best answer: I had a large reply to your question typed out but I deleted it because I didn't want to bother anyone. If it weren't for my wife I would never have people over to the house. And I certainly wouldn't go out to spend time with people, even though I might enjoy their company once arrived. So don't take it personally.
posted by Silvertree at 12:46 PM on December 8, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Silvertree at 12:46 PM on December 8, 2016 [4 favorites]
Best answer: I am an introvert (I am not your introvert, your introvert mileage may vary). I also have probably-diagnosable social anxiety, which is a completely different thing from introversion, but I think in my case the two sort of amplify each other.
Sometimes I'm hesitant to initiate plans because my friends seem to be way more cool and interesting and have a lot more going on - e.g. they'll have gone to all the hip new restaurants in town with all their other cooler friends, and I'm the one who's like "so, uh, want to go to TGI McFranchise's?" If I've done low-key stuff with a friend before, I'm much more likely to initiate.
In addition, I'm kind of all-around not very good at keeping up social activity. Texts, emails, in-person conversations, anything. It's a skill I often have to work at. It's like trying to play a sport when I've seen it on TV and maybe even understand the rules, but I don't quite understand the techniques. Sometimes I can play along, and it's great and feels natural and I enjoy it, but a lot of the time I drop the ball and it rolls off into the bushes and I'm suddenly very aware of how I'm standing and holding my racket and I'm sure it's wrong and I just don't know what to do next - and the longer I just stand there the harder it gets to get back in the game.
posted by Metroid Baby at 12:48 PM on December 8, 2016 [8 favorites]
Sometimes I'm hesitant to initiate plans because my friends seem to be way more cool and interesting and have a lot more going on - e.g. they'll have gone to all the hip new restaurants in town with all their other cooler friends, and I'm the one who's like "so, uh, want to go to TGI McFranchise's?" If I've done low-key stuff with a friend before, I'm much more likely to initiate.
In addition, I'm kind of all-around not very good at keeping up social activity. Texts, emails, in-person conversations, anything. It's a skill I often have to work at. It's like trying to play a sport when I've seen it on TV and maybe even understand the rules, but I don't quite understand the techniques. Sometimes I can play along, and it's great and feels natural and I enjoy it, but a lot of the time I drop the ball and it rolls off into the bushes and I'm suddenly very aware of how I'm standing and holding my racket and I'm sure it's wrong and I just don't know what to do next - and the longer I just stand there the harder it gets to get back in the game.
posted by Metroid Baby at 12:48 PM on December 8, 2016 [8 favorites]
Best answer: I've been thinking about this a bit more, and my experience matches what a couple others mentioned upthread, that I enjoy a much higher success rate of seeing my friends (all mid-30s, partnered, with kids) if the activity is 1) always clearly defined and 2) scheduled absurdly far in advance. For example, I have one friend where we get together for dinner once every month or two. Another friend's office is near mine, so we meet up for lunch whenever her schedule allows. Another friend and I have movie night at her place on the regular. It's almost always the same thing every time, and that's what seems to work best at this stage in our lives. I have one friend whose overtures I usually acknowledge in a friendly way but don't actively pursue because trying to get together with her is always so nebulous and I positively dread the pressure of the planning process with its drawn-out "I don't know, what do you want to do" dance.
I've had a couple friends fade on me due to what is very obviously social anxiety, so I don't take that personally as 1) dislike of me isn't even part of the equation in that instance, and b) it's clear they are doing the same thing to other people.
posted by anderjen at 1:16 PM on December 8, 2016
I've had a couple friends fade on me due to what is very obviously social anxiety, so I don't take that personally as 1) dislike of me isn't even part of the equation in that instance, and b) it's clear they are doing the same thing to other people.
posted by anderjen at 1:16 PM on December 8, 2016
Best answer: I'm pretty much in your situation. My primary thing is that I have a weekly friends dinner where a core group of about five friends--sometimes more, sometimes less--come over and we hang out, and then sometimes make side plans for other stuff. But I am kind of The Boss of Socializing in my friend group.
Not long ago, one of them said something about how I hosted all these things because I was the one who had my shit together. Now, that's weird and I certainly wouldn't think I was the most sorted person in that group, but there might be something to it. I've just come into that role. My house is one of those houses where people come and go at all hours (we probably look like drug dealers), and there really are a lot of people who have me as an emergency contact and stuff like that. So I think people think of me as being trustworthy and reliable, and they tend to assume I will take care of things. I guess I'm kind of a friend mom, just to a bunch of ladies who are mostly older than me.
But another reason that I'm usually in charge of that stuff, I suspect, is that I am I guess kind of fussy. I am always a bit uncomfortable at other people's houses, and there are a lot of common socializing type activities I don't really enjoy, so this is the best way for me to socialize regularly. If I didn't, I probably wouldn't see my friends very often. Because I used to be one of those flaky, never planning people who just let friendships fizzle out until I decided not to be.
There is one woman who is on my regular invite list who very rarely comes, and I considered that maybe she just didn't like me or something, but then I realized a couple of things. 1) Her life is pretty dramatic, both specifically right now, and also as a general rule, and I am not central to those issues; and 2) I don't have the time or inclination to worry about people being passive aggressive. If someone wants to be mean to me or reject me or something, they have to tell me like grownups rather than waiting around for me to guess. Because it isn't fair to normal, well meaning people to go around accusing them of being passive aggressive. I don't harass her or anything, of course, but I just told her I could leave her on the invite list just in case she ever felt like getting out of the house or something, but that she shouldn't feel obligated, she said she'd really like that, and I chose to take her at her word.
It is much more likely that your friends are just socially awkward, insecure, busy, or even just lazy and unmotivated than it is that they're trying to passive aggressively reject you. And if they were doing that, then fuck 'em. As long as you're not being creepy or ignoring their boundaries or whatever, it is perfectly acceptable for you to interpret their politeness at face value. What's the worst that will happen? You will be the sucker who was actually friendly toward someone who was trying to insult you in the most cowardly possible way? I am way more OK with that than I would with being the person who was suspicious and hostile toward someone who was trying to be friendly.
posted by ernielundquist at 1:20 PM on December 8, 2016 [1 favorite]
Not long ago, one of them said something about how I hosted all these things because I was the one who had my shit together. Now, that's weird and I certainly wouldn't think I was the most sorted person in that group, but there might be something to it. I've just come into that role. My house is one of those houses where people come and go at all hours (we probably look like drug dealers), and there really are a lot of people who have me as an emergency contact and stuff like that. So I think people think of me as being trustworthy and reliable, and they tend to assume I will take care of things. I guess I'm kind of a friend mom, just to a bunch of ladies who are mostly older than me.
But another reason that I'm usually in charge of that stuff, I suspect, is that I am I guess kind of fussy. I am always a bit uncomfortable at other people's houses, and there are a lot of common socializing type activities I don't really enjoy, so this is the best way for me to socialize regularly. If I didn't, I probably wouldn't see my friends very often. Because I used to be one of those flaky, never planning people who just let friendships fizzle out until I decided not to be.
There is one woman who is on my regular invite list who very rarely comes, and I considered that maybe she just didn't like me or something, but then I realized a couple of things. 1) Her life is pretty dramatic, both specifically right now, and also as a general rule, and I am not central to those issues; and 2) I don't have the time or inclination to worry about people being passive aggressive. If someone wants to be mean to me or reject me or something, they have to tell me like grownups rather than waiting around for me to guess. Because it isn't fair to normal, well meaning people to go around accusing them of being passive aggressive. I don't harass her or anything, of course, but I just told her I could leave her on the invite list just in case she ever felt like getting out of the house or something, but that she shouldn't feel obligated, she said she'd really like that, and I chose to take her at her word.
It is much more likely that your friends are just socially awkward, insecure, busy, or even just lazy and unmotivated than it is that they're trying to passive aggressively reject you. And if they were doing that, then fuck 'em. As long as you're not being creepy or ignoring their boundaries or whatever, it is perfectly acceptable for you to interpret their politeness at face value. What's the worst that will happen? You will be the sucker who was actually friendly toward someone who was trying to insult you in the most cowardly possible way? I am way more OK with that than I would with being the person who was suspicious and hostile toward someone who was trying to be friendly.
posted by ernielundquist at 1:20 PM on December 8, 2016 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I'm another person who's usually does most of the planning and keeping in touch. Mostly that's been fine. I'm not sure it's an "introvert/extrovert" thing; I'm suspicious of that dichotomy anyway. I do know that the stakes are higher for me than for many of my friends: I live alone so if I don't put in the work, I get no conversation at all.
As ernielundquist points out above, if you're the planner, you just have to blithely ignore what might look like rejection or dislike. It's usually just the kind of benign passivity that everyone's describing here.
But you know what? That can get really hard in the long term. Without going into more detail than anyone wants to read: it's "emotional labor", it can be difficult to maintain if you're going through a tough time, and if someone doesn't take care of it, friendships can't develop or survive. If any of you are on the edge about getting in touch with a friend, please do it.
posted by tangerine at 2:18 PM on December 8, 2016 [3 favorites]
As ernielundquist points out above, if you're the planner, you just have to blithely ignore what might look like rejection or dislike. It's usually just the kind of benign passivity that everyone's describing here.
But you know what? That can get really hard in the long term. Without going into more detail than anyone wants to read: it's "emotional labor", it can be difficult to maintain if you're going through a tough time, and if someone doesn't take care of it, friendships can't develop or survive. If any of you are on the edge about getting in touch with a friend, please do it.
posted by tangerine at 2:18 PM on December 8, 2016 [3 favorites]
Best answer: I'm an introvert. I recommend your reading "Caring for Your Introvert."
posted by Carol Anne at 2:51 PM on December 8, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Carol Anne at 2:51 PM on December 8, 2016 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Five Things You Can Do With A Friend Even If You Don't Have a lot going on:
- Sit around and talk at home.
- Hang out at home and chat while whichever of you is the host does minimally demanding house/garden work. Helping optional.
- Walk around the neighborhood. If that's too boring, walk around some other neighborhood. If necessary, take a car or public transportation to get there.
- Sit around and talk in some low-key coffee shop, university building, or park.
- Go to a museum. Or go to a store and treat it as a museum.
posted by tangerine at 2:59 PM on December 8, 2016 [4 favorites]
- Sit around and talk at home.
- Hang out at home and chat while whichever of you is the host does minimally demanding house/garden work. Helping optional.
- Walk around the neighborhood. If that's too boring, walk around some other neighborhood. If necessary, take a car or public transportation to get there.
- Sit around and talk in some low-key coffee shop, university building, or park.
- Go to a museum. Or go to a store and treat it as a museum.
posted by tangerine at 2:59 PM on December 8, 2016 [4 favorites]
Best answer: For me this disconnect is about frequency. I'll see extrovert friends and they're like "I haven't seen you in forever!!!!" and I saw them, like, a couple weeks ago, which to me feels like basically yesterday. This happens to the point where I wonder if my perception of time is actually messed up.
I am also "bad at email". I am better at email when an invitation is specifically addressed to me - like, a group text with twelve people, I probably will just ignore unless I want to go do the thing. But if someone texts me or me and one or two other people, I will definitely respond. Advance notice also helps - I need to budget my social time, so if I am already doing two social things this week and you text me about a third thing, I will almost certainly say no. But I like getting invited! And it's never personal.
posted by goodbyewaffles at 3:03 PM on December 8, 2016 [3 favorites]
I am also "bad at email". I am better at email when an invitation is specifically addressed to me - like, a group text with twelve people, I probably will just ignore unless I want to go do the thing. But if someone texts me or me and one or two other people, I will definitely respond. Advance notice also helps - I need to budget my social time, so if I am already doing two social things this week and you text me about a third thing, I will almost certainly say no. But I like getting invited! And it's never personal.
posted by goodbyewaffles at 3:03 PM on December 8, 2016 [3 favorites]
Best answer: It's not even about finding activities that are good for people who don't have a lot going on, because there's still conversation that needs to be had at these things. For some introverted people who are dealing with other life stuff, there's this fear of being...boring, and that's what makes them hesitant to spend time with people. I can't be sure my friends will actually have a good time with me, even if they initiate, so I don't invite people to stuff, and I'm somewhat reluctant to start up conversations online because said conversation might hit a "blergamot is a boring, offputting narcissist" wall.
There's a cluster of related issues that take up a lot of my headspace and resources and that I haven't made much progress on, and they're not fun or engaging to talk about. Sometimes I don't feel socially adequate around my peers who have recent vacations and weddings and craft beer tasting and other affluent-unencumbered-young-professional life stuff to share with others. I suspect that this is pretty common among introverted people who are less likely to get out there and do stuff.
posted by blerghamot at 3:21 PM on December 8, 2016 [1 favorite]
There's a cluster of related issues that take up a lot of my headspace and resources and that I haven't made much progress on, and they're not fun or engaging to talk about. Sometimes I don't feel socially adequate around my peers who have recent vacations and weddings and craft beer tasting and other affluent-unencumbered-young-professional life stuff to share with others. I suspect that this is pretty common among introverted people who are less likely to get out there and do stuff.
posted by blerghamot at 3:21 PM on December 8, 2016 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I'm an introvert who can be 'on' at parties, and be social and gregarious and get to know people, but then I come home and have to be alone and silent for at least a full day, most likely two days, to recover. I call that state peopled-out. I also have social anxiety. I'm decent at masking it, and I can show up and suit up when I must, but I dread having to do it. Socializing costs me a lot of spoons, and I try to minimize it. There are very few humans on this earth who don't drain me, no matter how much I like or love them.
And yet, because irony is the one true operating principle of this universe, I am surrounded by loved ones who all have Quality Time as their primary love language. The very thing my family, friends, and sweeties all need is the one thing that is guaranteed to drain my emotional resilience and battery. SIGH
Stuff that's helped:
posted by culfinglin at 3:32 PM on December 8, 2016 [3 favorites]
And yet, because irony is the one true operating principle of this universe, I am surrounded by loved ones who all have Quality Time as their primary love language. The very thing my family, friends, and sweeties all need is the one thing that is guaranteed to drain my emotional resilience and battery. SIGH
Stuff that's helped:
- I've asked to have phone calls/Facetime/Skype instead of meeting in person, so I don't have to get back in the car and drive (I live in LA; it's often two hours of traffic each way to meet friends).
- I've suggested playing games online together and chatting over Skype while we play, so that there's a focus on something else besides ME.
- I've asked them to let me know which big events are actually important to them that I be at, vs the events that aren't as important. Sometimes they're obvious (wedding? important. movie night? not so much), but often it's not very clear how much emotional weight an event carries.
- If a friend only ever invites me to events that are a big social group, I wind up feeling like I'm just a spear-carrier in a Greek chorus, and not particularly important. I'm much more inclined to show up if people are genuinely glad to see me, and say so.
- I've suggested doing 1:1, low-key things together, like coffee or drinks at my place, rather than large parties.
- I've been upfront about my social anxiety and introversion with my close friends, and let them know that it's absolutely not personal if I don't have the energy.
- I also set myself reminders to call/text/email/IM my friends, depending upon their individual needs. Some people I only reach out to once every couple of months, some every couple of weeks, and some people need it every day.
- If I do reject an invitation to something, I extend an invitation to something else with that person. I've lost track of the times I've said, 'I'm sorry, I can't make your Thing, but if you're free in a couple of weeks, I'd love to see you for coffee.'
posted by culfinglin at 3:32 PM on December 8, 2016 [3 favorites]
Best answer: I am an introvert and I honestly don't know how people Do Friendship. My social circle has a few extroverts in it, and they are issuing invitations and suggestions to hang out, and things to do together on average about two to three nights a week each! I take them each up on the invites about one time in ten, which still means my social calendar is pretty fully booked out (like, I go out two nights a week when I'm not too busy/exhausted with work, and one night a week otherwise). I can't do more, or I don't get enough alone time.
If all my extroverted friends stopped contacting me, I imagine I'd eventually feel like I wanted some more companionship and would reach out myself. Probably about once a fortnight or once a month total. That would be about perfect. However, if it was one-on-one socialising, that would mean I'd see each friend only about once a year. So I'd probably try to do group activities about that often.
BUT if just one of my extroverted friends, e.g. you, stopped reaching out, the others would STILL fill up my social calendar further than I can handle, so to be honest, I might not notice you weren't inviting me to things anymore. If I never saw you otherwise (e.g. at those other events), I'd eventually notice, and probably drop you a line by email to catch up, but I still probably wouldn't be suggesting social activities because I would be burned out on all the other stuff.
I actually don't know how a random acquaintance would distinguish between me actively disliking them, and just being busy/introverted. That's a problem, I guess. But at least I'd say you can't take radio silence/never accepting invitations as signs of introverts not liking you.
posted by lollusc at 4:40 PM on December 8, 2016
If all my extroverted friends stopped contacting me, I imagine I'd eventually feel like I wanted some more companionship and would reach out myself. Probably about once a fortnight or once a month total. That would be about perfect. However, if it was one-on-one socialising, that would mean I'd see each friend only about once a year. So I'd probably try to do group activities about that often.
BUT if just one of my extroverted friends, e.g. you, stopped reaching out, the others would STILL fill up my social calendar further than I can handle, so to be honest, I might not notice you weren't inviting me to things anymore. If I never saw you otherwise (e.g. at those other events), I'd eventually notice, and probably drop you a line by email to catch up, but I still probably wouldn't be suggesting social activities because I would be burned out on all the other stuff.
I actually don't know how a random acquaintance would distinguish between me actively disliking them, and just being busy/introverted. That's a problem, I guess. But at least I'd say you can't take radio silence/never accepting invitations as signs of introverts not liking you.
posted by lollusc at 4:40 PM on December 8, 2016
Response by poster: Wow, thanks everyone! These are really helpful answers. If I had to pick just a few points that were most helpful:
* As an introvert, I don't reach out/take initiative because I don't want to bother my friends and loved ones. It's not that I don't love or care about them - it's kind of the opposite.
* TL;DR you don't know, man, some of those friends might really be treading water in ways you don't know about. If they respond, they probably like you.
* I think a lot of people in our age group (I'm also in my mid-30's) are just ... busy and overwhelmed a lot of times. I don't quite "get it" either, as I find relationships super important to me, and give me a lot of meaning in this adulting life which is so grinding sometimes, but I don't think everyone is that way.
* This comic
* I am an introvert and I honestly don't know how people Do Friendship.
I feel rather silly marking every answer as "best" but there you have it.
posted by thumpasor at 7:38 PM on December 8, 2016
* As an introvert, I don't reach out/take initiative because I don't want to bother my friends and loved ones. It's not that I don't love or care about them - it's kind of the opposite.
* TL;DR you don't know, man, some of those friends might really be treading water in ways you don't know about. If they respond, they probably like you.
* I think a lot of people in our age group (I'm also in my mid-30's) are just ... busy and overwhelmed a lot of times. I don't quite "get it" either, as I find relationships super important to me, and give me a lot of meaning in this adulting life which is so grinding sometimes, but I don't think everyone is that way.
* This comic
* I am an introvert and I honestly don't know how people Do Friendship.
I feel rather silly marking every answer as "best" but there you have it.
posted by thumpasor at 7:38 PM on December 8, 2016
Yikes at all the answers where people are like "I don't consider them friends anymore." It might be because I'm in my 20s and grew up with social media and texting and my friendships are based on deep shared connections and being easygoing about contact, but even as someone who is fairly ambiverted and fluctuates between introversion and extroversion, I consider each friendship and connection as a opportunity to hear and listen about their lives, share mine, and enjoy their company. Me and my friends' lives are so complicated with family, friends, work, school, and self-care, along with being politically active and healing from trauma/mental illness, that I always tend towards thinking of everyone with good intentions. My closest best friends and the person I date, we just tend to keep in touch more often and have more intimate conversations, but that's just how it flows, and I tend to share a lot about my life and am very giving with my time, attention, and energy in listening. I think all of us would wish to have more social energy to spend time with friends and initiate, but don't.
This is speaking as someone who manages their social calendar very well and loves going out and making plans, along with staying in, and spends a significant amount of time refining my relationships and interacting it. Maintaining relationships is a hobby for me, and I think for some introverts, it can be a rather difficult skill or thing to manage when life is overwhelming, especially with different needs and temperments. But I think fundamentally, everyone loves to know that they are someone worth hanging out with. If they can't hang or don't want to hang or don't initiate? It's all good, try again in a few. I just would rather send texts that help me think fondly of them, and be really affirming. Using FB also helps a great deal, there are some very close friends of mine that I haven't seen in years but we keep up to date on eachother's lives and travails, and always express so much love.
Modern life is complicated! I would rather make room for how the love is, in all its forms.
posted by yueliang at 8:25 PM on December 8, 2016
This is speaking as someone who manages their social calendar very well and loves going out and making plans, along with staying in, and spends a significant amount of time refining my relationships and interacting it. Maintaining relationships is a hobby for me, and I think for some introverts, it can be a rather difficult skill or thing to manage when life is overwhelming, especially with different needs and temperments. But I think fundamentally, everyone loves to know that they are someone worth hanging out with. If they can't hang or don't want to hang or don't initiate? It's all good, try again in a few. I just would rather send texts that help me think fondly of them, and be really affirming. Using FB also helps a great deal, there are some very close friends of mine that I haven't seen in years but we keep up to date on eachother's lives and travails, and always express so much love.
Modern life is complicated! I would rather make room for how the love is, in all its forms.
posted by yueliang at 8:25 PM on December 8, 2016
I am a huge introvert, and I have social anxiety. I've been making a special effort to grow some acquaintanceships into friendships. I wanted to suggest getting together with one of these people, who I really like! She's awesome! But I dithered, and my thought process was something like:
* She's so awesome I'm sure she'll have other plans, and she'll think I'm pathetic for not having other plans myself.
* So I should suggest a weeknight, rather than a weekend, because surely she'll already have weekend plans.
* But I don't really have any free weeknights, really. Maybe I shouldn't contact her then.
* Maybe I could gently suggest a weekend, but also include other possible dates that aren't weekends, even in they're hard for me, so that she doesn't think I'm overstepping our friendship bounds by assuming she has a Saturday night that she wants to spend with me.
* What do I suggest we do? Dinner? We have done dinner in the past. Dinner could be safe. But Saturday night dinner seems like a big ask. Are we close enough friends that I can ask that? I don't want her to feel obligated to spend Saturday night dinner with me just because she thinks I'm a big loser who doesn't have other, closer friends with whom I should be spending Saturday night.
What I love about this particular recent example is that I ended up telling myself I was being silly and texting her to ask if she wanted to get together and suggesting a bunch of dates (which made me feel loser-y that I had them all free, but I did it anyway!), and she ended up picking a Saturday. And then! She texted me saying that she was so glad I asked her to do something because she had been spending way too much time alone and needed the push to get out and be with people. I was floored. This woman is so gregarious and extroverted that I just assumed she was up to her ears in invitations and fun stuff and that my request to spend time with her would be a possible bother.
And the weird thing about all this is that I'm actually perfectly happy spending time alone, so the fact that I have a bunch of nights free doesn't actually bother me, but I've been judged so harshly by extroverts in the past that I do worry they're going to judge me for not having a super-full social calendar, which makes me hesitant to be honest about my own free time. And apparently I have gigantic misconceptions about how extroverts spend their time, because I just always assume they have funner-than-me people that they'd rather hang around, and I'm typing out this (embarrassing) comment mainly to cement in my own mind that other people do enjoy spending time with me even when my social anxiety tries to convince me otherwise, because that's the script in my head that makes it hard for me to reach out. INFJ's comment that "As an introvert, I don't reach out/take initiative because I don't want to bother my friends and loved ones. It's not that I don't love or care about them - it's kind of the opposite," is exactly how I feel most of the time.
posted by lazuli at 9:13 PM on December 8, 2016 [7 favorites]
* She's so awesome I'm sure she'll have other plans, and she'll think I'm pathetic for not having other plans myself.
* So I should suggest a weeknight, rather than a weekend, because surely she'll already have weekend plans.
* But I don't really have any free weeknights, really. Maybe I shouldn't contact her then.
* Maybe I could gently suggest a weekend, but also include other possible dates that aren't weekends, even in they're hard for me, so that she doesn't think I'm overstepping our friendship bounds by assuming she has a Saturday night that she wants to spend with me.
* What do I suggest we do? Dinner? We have done dinner in the past. Dinner could be safe. But Saturday night dinner seems like a big ask. Are we close enough friends that I can ask that? I don't want her to feel obligated to spend Saturday night dinner with me just because she thinks I'm a big loser who doesn't have other, closer friends with whom I should be spending Saturday night.
What I love about this particular recent example is that I ended up telling myself I was being silly and texting her to ask if she wanted to get together and suggesting a bunch of dates (which made me feel loser-y that I had them all free, but I did it anyway!), and she ended up picking a Saturday. And then! She texted me saying that she was so glad I asked her to do something because she had been spending way too much time alone and needed the push to get out and be with people. I was floored. This woman is so gregarious and extroverted that I just assumed she was up to her ears in invitations and fun stuff and that my request to spend time with her would be a possible bother.
And the weird thing about all this is that I'm actually perfectly happy spending time alone, so the fact that I have a bunch of nights free doesn't actually bother me, but I've been judged so harshly by extroverts in the past that I do worry they're going to judge me for not having a super-full social calendar, which makes me hesitant to be honest about my own free time. And apparently I have gigantic misconceptions about how extroverts spend their time, because I just always assume they have funner-than-me people that they'd rather hang around, and I'm typing out this (embarrassing) comment mainly to cement in my own mind that other people do enjoy spending time with me even when my social anxiety tries to convince me otherwise, because that's the script in my head that makes it hard for me to reach out. INFJ's comment that "As an introvert, I don't reach out/take initiative because I don't want to bother my friends and loved ones. It's not that I don't love or care about them - it's kind of the opposite," is exactly how I feel most of the time.
posted by lazuli at 9:13 PM on December 8, 2016 [7 favorites]
As far as actual email goes, I've finally realized that I have a hard time with chatty emails because it's often one email with 5-10 different topics/ideas that I'm supposed to respond to at once, which feels overwhelming to me. One or two ideas per exchange (which is more typical for texting, dialogue on Facebook posts, and in-person communication) is better.
posted by needs more cowbell at 4:09 PM on December 9, 2016
posted by needs more cowbell at 4:09 PM on December 9, 2016
Hi! I am an introvert I think!
Why I need space:
- Social situations are pretty overwhelming. They are SO noisy, you have to give instant reactions, you have to think of things to say. Sometimes you are eating, you have to observe social etiquette, you have to make sure everyone is feeling okay, you have to self-censor and have good manners... It's a lot of work and not the most efficient use of my energy.
- I have a lot on my mind, things that are too irrelevant/random to share and it's boring to listen to other people talk when I just want to google all the details of the topics/problems/questions that I have on my mind.
- I do feel lonely sometimes, like I get that swirly chest can-someone-hug-me feeling, but I know from experience that actually socializing won't make that feeling go away, and in fact can make it feel worse! I want low quantity, high quality bonding sessions! I'm craving salad, not McDonalds (if you see what I mean).
Am I trying to reject people by not initiating meet ups:
- Nope not at all! I care about my friends deeply, I just don't think I have anything new to say to them most of the time. If there was an emergency and they needed my help, I'd be there! But I would rather finish my book than have brunch and talk about the weather or something.
Suggestions:
- Accept that introverts need space? Your friends aren't going to turn into social butterflies but they have other strengths. Embrace the diversity of your social circle!
- Change your expectations!
- Reinterpret their actions as self-preservation, not rejection - what you are noticing here is a temperament/set of behaviours, it is not an insult directed at you!
- Negotiate with them? Maybe you could compromise? If my friend asked me to contact her once a month, I think I would be okay with that. Maybe there's some middle ground?
posted by Crookshanks_Meow at 7:38 AM on December 11, 2016 [2 favorites]
Why I need space:
- Social situations are pretty overwhelming. They are SO noisy, you have to give instant reactions, you have to think of things to say. Sometimes you are eating, you have to observe social etiquette, you have to make sure everyone is feeling okay, you have to self-censor and have good manners... It's a lot of work and not the most efficient use of my energy.
- I have a lot on my mind, things that are too irrelevant/random to share and it's boring to listen to other people talk when I just want to google all the details of the topics/problems/questions that I have on my mind.
- I do feel lonely sometimes, like I get that swirly chest can-someone-hug-me feeling, but I know from experience that actually socializing won't make that feeling go away, and in fact can make it feel worse! I want low quantity, high quality bonding sessions! I'm craving salad, not McDonalds (if you see what I mean).
Am I trying to reject people by not initiating meet ups:
- Nope not at all! I care about my friends deeply, I just don't think I have anything new to say to them most of the time. If there was an emergency and they needed my help, I'd be there! But I would rather finish my book than have brunch and talk about the weather or something.
Suggestions:
- Accept that introverts need space? Your friends aren't going to turn into social butterflies but they have other strengths. Embrace the diversity of your social circle!
- Change your expectations!
- Reinterpret their actions as self-preservation, not rejection - what you are noticing here is a temperament/set of behaviours, it is not an insult directed at you!
- Negotiate with them? Maybe you could compromise? If my friend asked me to contact her once a month, I think I would be okay with that. Maybe there's some middle ground?
posted by Crookshanks_Meow at 7:38 AM on December 11, 2016 [2 favorites]
Are any of your friends single? I am single and introverted, and have some friends who are married or in long-term relationships. I'm hesitant to suggest getting together, as it's often a matter of organizing things not with one but with two people, and then being a third wheel with them, so I'd rather leave it for them to decide if they want my company. So if any of your friends are single this may also be a factor.
posted by zadcat at 9:52 PM on December 12, 2016
posted by zadcat at 9:52 PM on December 12, 2016
This thread is closed to new comments.
Are you asking about people not responding/reacting or about people not taking the initiative?
posted by I-baLL at 11:05 AM on December 8, 2016