After seperation with child, do you consider ex family still?
October 24, 2016 9:02 AM Subscribe
I have been seperated, and have lived seperately for 3 months from my ex, we have a 14 month old daughter. Looking through my past questions, it's clear I have a hard time setting and sticking to boundaries, and especially hard now in this instance when I'm trying to co-parent with someone who acts as if we are still together, and tells his family we are, and doesn't really listen or believe me when I say I have nothing left to give or hope for. Am I terrible for feeling as if he is not part of my family and I don't want to be part of his due to the fact that we are seperated now?
His family is in a different country, so we communicate via messages a lot just because we are all close. They know we are not living together, but a few of them are visiting at the end of the month and have never been here before, they seem to be assuming they will be staying with me for the holidays, or that this will be one happy family, and I'm not sure if this is a cultural thing or not, or how to handle this. I am extremely uncomfortable, my family wants nothing to do with him, although him and I are cordial the holidays have been causing me severe stress and anxiety. My family obvouisly is in love with our daughter and wants to be a part, he doesn't have his "own house" or place yet, and rents out a room from an air b n b account so he has no baby room for her, so his visits take place at my house.
Culturally, he says family is family, his family still welcomes me with open arms and hopes to see us back together. He still says he hasn't let go of me because he feels his heart and soul have always been connected to me and that he will "win" me back. I don't buy it, and said he gave up when he confessed he had loved another woman for a year of us being together, and has already started dating someone new within a month of our seperation. Family is huge in his culture. And I don't want to offend, but I don't know how to go about this... He almost has a way of assuming or worming his way back in, and it feels as if boundaries are being crossed because he is telling his family we are back together when we are not. My family wants nothing to do with him, but always speak positively of him and encourage his relationship with our daughter. They just do not like the person he was for me and what he has done/said.
I feel bad taking her out of town for the holidays because that means he wiill be alone, but I also feel weird playing happy family when we are not together. I feel as if he is creating a reality without me knowing and I feel trapped in a sense. I of course still love this man, and I would do anything to work it out to be a family, I don't know why he hasn't given up hope on us when he has told me he wasn't in love with me and has already begun to see others. I can't even begin to explain the anxiety I'm feeling. Is it terrible of me to consider him not part of my family now that we are seperated, and to not want to be a part of his? If I were to continue welcoming him into my family and me into his, I would 1) lose my family because they don't want to be around him much 2) feel as if I am leading him on when he keeps telling me he will not give up and fight for me 3) keep myself in limbo when all I want is to focus on me right now and hopefully in the FUTURE have a family of my own.
His family is in a different country, so we communicate via messages a lot just because we are all close. They know we are not living together, but a few of them are visiting at the end of the month and have never been here before, they seem to be assuming they will be staying with me for the holidays, or that this will be one happy family, and I'm not sure if this is a cultural thing or not, or how to handle this. I am extremely uncomfortable, my family wants nothing to do with him, although him and I are cordial the holidays have been causing me severe stress and anxiety. My family obvouisly is in love with our daughter and wants to be a part, he doesn't have his "own house" or place yet, and rents out a room from an air b n b account so he has no baby room for her, so his visits take place at my house.
Culturally, he says family is family, his family still welcomes me with open arms and hopes to see us back together. He still says he hasn't let go of me because he feels his heart and soul have always been connected to me and that he will "win" me back. I don't buy it, and said he gave up when he confessed he had loved another woman for a year of us being together, and has already started dating someone new within a month of our seperation. Family is huge in his culture. And I don't want to offend, but I don't know how to go about this... He almost has a way of assuming or worming his way back in, and it feels as if boundaries are being crossed because he is telling his family we are back together when we are not. My family wants nothing to do with him, but always speak positively of him and encourage his relationship with our daughter. They just do not like the person he was for me and what he has done/said.
I feel bad taking her out of town for the holidays because that means he wiill be alone, but I also feel weird playing happy family when we are not together. I feel as if he is creating a reality without me knowing and I feel trapped in a sense. I of course still love this man, and I would do anything to work it out to be a family, I don't know why he hasn't given up hope on us when he has told me he wasn't in love with me and has already begun to see others. I can't even begin to explain the anxiety I'm feeling. Is it terrible of me to consider him not part of my family now that we are seperated, and to not want to be a part of his? If I were to continue welcoming him into my family and me into his, I would 1) lose my family because they don't want to be around him much 2) feel as if I am leading him on when he keeps telling me he will not give up and fight for me 3) keep myself in limbo when all I want is to focus on me right now and hopefully in the FUTURE have a family of my own.
In a clean separation sometimes people can see themselves and their exes as familial because of their child. Others do not. There is no right or wrong answer. Your ex is terrible with boundaries. You do not have to keep your separation private your ex's family. You can (and probably should) let them know you are going to be out of town during this holiday season and are unable to host them. You should make damn sure your ex isn't hosting them in your house (seriously you should change the locks if you haven't already, I haven't gone through your past questions).
And ultimately, you have to toss up big boundary walls with your ex. Because, again, in a friendly separation maybe visits at your place might be okay but in this case it's clearly not, so you should be pushing for
- him having visits with your child outside the house so that he gets a clear sense that your home is not his
- legally outlines separation agreement (you can get this even if you are not divorcing right now) that spell out things like child support
- shutting down any talk of him that you are getting back together. Like literally when he starts talking that way in person or in real time you just say "You know that is not happening, Stop talking about it or I will end this conversation" and if he mentions it in email just act like he never said it
This doesn't have to be forever and you can (and probably should) try to maintain a relationship between your child and your child's grandparents but that actually doesn't need to be moderated by your ex. You can, in the future, find ways for your child and them to interact, and that is actually a normal thing. You don't have to get embroiled in details but can just do the same disengagement when they try to talk with you about you and your ex's future.
posted by jessamyn at 9:15 AM on October 24, 2016 [7 favorites]
And ultimately, you have to toss up big boundary walls with your ex. Because, again, in a friendly separation maybe visits at your place might be okay but in this case it's clearly not, so you should be pushing for
- him having visits with your child outside the house so that he gets a clear sense that your home is not his
- legally outlines separation agreement (you can get this even if you are not divorcing right now) that spell out things like child support
- shutting down any talk of him that you are getting back together. Like literally when he starts talking that way in person or in real time you just say "You know that is not happening, Stop talking about it or I will end this conversation" and if he mentions it in email just act like he never said it
This doesn't have to be forever and you can (and probably should) try to maintain a relationship between your child and your child's grandparents but that actually doesn't need to be moderated by your ex. You can, in the future, find ways for your child and them to interact, and that is actually a normal thing. You don't have to get embroiled in details but can just do the same disengagement when they try to talk with you about you and your ex's future.
posted by jessamyn at 9:15 AM on October 24, 2016 [7 favorites]
Therapy. Lawyer. Custody agreement.
Airbnb's are not cheap, by staying in one he puts off custody visits that happen outside of your home. This is high level shenanigans you are dealing with and you need help.
- Get legal agreements that spell out everything.
- This person is not your family and you do not have to anything other than cordial.
- Set expectations now concerning the holidays. Yes you should leave town and do not not not play happy family for his relatives. That's crazy. Be an adult and schedule a visit or two with his family, you do not (and absolutely should not) have to participate in the visit.
- If you have custody concerns, talk over your options with a lawyer.
posted by jbenben at 9:19 AM on October 24, 2016 [14 favorites]
Airbnb's are not cheap, by staying in one he puts off custody visits that happen outside of your home. This is high level shenanigans you are dealing with and you need help.
- Get legal agreements that spell out everything.
- This person is not your family and you do not have to anything other than cordial.
- Set expectations now concerning the holidays. Yes you should leave town and do not not not play happy family for his relatives. That's crazy. Be an adult and schedule a visit or two with his family, you do not (and absolutely should not) have to participate in the visit.
- If you have custody concerns, talk over your options with a lawyer.
posted by jbenben at 9:19 AM on October 24, 2016 [14 favorites]
Also, you're correct to identify that his telling you he was in love with someone else + him currently dating others is totally incongruent with repairing or maintaining any sort of close, intimate, or romantic relationship with you. That's why I suggested therapy, because you need help keeping the facts straight while you process what's happened. His words and his actions don't match and that hurts. It's the worst, I'm sorry. It gets easier once you learn how to maintain clarity despite the mixed messages.
posted by jbenben at 9:24 AM on October 24, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by jbenben at 9:24 AM on October 24, 2016 [5 favorites]
Best answer: In the last few questions you've been told therapy would be extremely valuable for you. I feel the need to echo this: please get counseling.
As for your ex, you need to be able to disengage from all this emotional stuff (some of which is coming from his manipulative behavior, some of which is coming from how you're responding to him.) It's very difficult to disengage without trying to "still be a family;" in your situation I judge it to be basically impossible to continue the "family" line of thinking and also protect yourself and your child.
Anyway, you clearly need dispassionate support to set up and maintain a system that will work for you. This can't be someone in your family who despises the ex - it needs to be someone who isn't involved. My parents utilized friends from church for this, in the first few years after the divorce; their mediator was their pastor.
posted by SMPA at 9:24 AM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
As for your ex, you need to be able to disengage from all this emotional stuff (some of which is coming from his manipulative behavior, some of which is coming from how you're responding to him.) It's very difficult to disengage without trying to "still be a family;" in your situation I judge it to be basically impossible to continue the "family" line of thinking and also protect yourself and your child.
Anyway, you clearly need dispassionate support to set up and maintain a system that will work for you. This can't be someone in your family who despises the ex - it needs to be someone who isn't involved. My parents utilized friends from church for this, in the first few years after the divorce; their mediator was their pastor.
posted by SMPA at 9:24 AM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Just a quick response, I am currently in two different forms of therapy, and to further his current living arrangements I believe he hasn't committedto a more stable place because he is convinced we will be back together, he can not seem to grasp that I'm not willing to make this work for our daughters sake.
posted by MamaBee223 at 9:40 AM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by MamaBee223 at 9:40 AM on October 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
to further his current living arrangements I believe he hasn't committ e to w more stable place because he is convinced we will be back together, he can not seem to grasp that I'm not willing to make this work for our daughters sake.
"I will not let you spend time in my house, with or without our daughter present. You can pick her up and drop her off at the front door."
I have been inside my ex's house once in the decade since we separated. I have stood outside in the pouring rain while our daughter ran back inside to get one more suitcase. I'm okay with that, because I'm an adult human being and my ex is an adult human being who gets to control their own living space.
posted by Etrigan at 9:49 AM on October 24, 2016 [5 favorites]
"I will not let you spend time in my house, with or without our daughter present. You can pick her up and drop her off at the front door."
I have been inside my ex's house once in the decade since we separated. I have stood outside in the pouring rain while our daughter ran back inside to get one more suitcase. I'm okay with that, because I'm an adult human being and my ex is an adult human being who gets to control their own living space.
posted by Etrigan at 9:49 AM on October 24, 2016 [5 favorites]
Best answer: he can not seem to grasp that I'm not willing to make this work for our daughters sake.
Ugh, I really hope you're not buying into this narrative of getting back together with this man "for your daughter's sake." Please be very clear: he wants you back FOR HIS SAKE. Growing up in a household where her father rides roughshod over her mother's wishes and boundaries will not benefit your daughter in any way.
Having read your previous questions I think you have done a very good thing by separating, and I hope you will continue to do the work to make this more complete. Teach your daughter that your/her wishes matter, and that you shouldn't sacrifice that "to avoid offending" people.
Remember that establishing firm boundaries, getting a legal custody arrangement in place, and refusing to let this man suck you back in is good for both you AND your daughter's sake.
posted by DingoMutt at 9:50 AM on October 24, 2016 [13 favorites]
Ugh, I really hope you're not buying into this narrative of getting back together with this man "for your daughter's sake." Please be very clear: he wants you back FOR HIS SAKE. Growing up in a household where her father rides roughshod over her mother's wishes and boundaries will not benefit your daughter in any way.
Having read your previous questions I think you have done a very good thing by separating, and I hope you will continue to do the work to make this more complete. Teach your daughter that your/her wishes matter, and that you shouldn't sacrifice that "to avoid offending" people.
Remember that establishing firm boundaries, getting a legal custody arrangement in place, and refusing to let this man suck you back in is good for both you AND your daughter's sake.
posted by DingoMutt at 9:50 AM on October 24, 2016 [13 favorites]
Family law exists to resolve situations like yours. I don't know where you live, but in my location the process of dissolving a marriage with child custody components aims to (1) minimize disruption of the childrens' lives while (2) ensuring that both parents have a quality of life that's as close as possible to the status quo during the marriage. In broad strokes, that's it. You can think of one another however you please once the relationship is defined as separate in the eyes of the law and custody arrangements have been agreed upon by all parties.
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 10:03 AM on October 24, 2016
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 10:03 AM on October 24, 2016
Best answer: Family is family, but that means, like, don't be a jerk in 20+ years when your child gets married and wants both of you there. You need to be able to be civil, and there will be events in your daughter's life where you two will need to deal with each other sans drama.
"Family is family" might also mean that you don't pull a jerk move like taking your kid out of town for the holidays so that she can't see her father and extended family on her dad's side. (I'm in my 30s, my siblings are all long since grown, and it is still not the done thing to make holiday plans that privilege one parent over the other at Christmas.)
"Family is family" doesn't mean you have to pretend like you're still together to his family of origin, or that you have to host his people for the holidays.
You need to tell your ex that this isn't happening. That you're not hosting anyone or pretending to still be together. You will be in town, and you will send your child over to visit with his side of the family, but that's it.
posted by Sara C. at 10:08 AM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
"Family is family" might also mean that you don't pull a jerk move like taking your kid out of town for the holidays so that she can't see her father and extended family on her dad's side. (I'm in my 30s, my siblings are all long since grown, and it is still not the done thing to make holiday plans that privilege one parent over the other at Christmas.)
"Family is family" doesn't mean you have to pretend like you're still together to his family of origin, or that you have to host his people for the holidays.
You need to tell your ex that this isn't happening. That you're not hosting anyone or pretending to still be together. You will be in town, and you will send your child over to visit with his side of the family, but that's it.
posted by Sara C. at 10:08 AM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
Best answer: For a variety of reasons, you should talk with a family law attorney before doing
A N Y T H I N G at all here. There is some advice here that is nice from an emotional perspective but not so good from a legal standpoint. Really, I would not do a damned thing to change the status quo until a family lawyer in my jurisdiction said "Stop doing X; do Y instead." IANAL and have no idea what the laws are like in your area, but if you were in my area there are some suggestions about the status quo between you/your ex/the kid/visiting that would not be a good idea, here. Could vary wildly in your part of the world. Solution: attorney. This doesn't mean you have to throw down thousands to get a bulldog on retainer tomorrow -- just get a consultation and an overview of your rights and likely outcomes and what things you do and do not want to to do ASAP.
posted by kmennie at 10:14 AM on October 24, 2016 [5 favorites]
A N Y T H I N G at all here. There is some advice here that is nice from an emotional perspective but not so good from a legal standpoint. Really, I would not do a damned thing to change the status quo until a family lawyer in my jurisdiction said "Stop doing X; do Y instead." IANAL and have no idea what the laws are like in your area, but if you were in my area there are some suggestions about the status quo between you/your ex/the kid/visiting that would not be a good idea, here. Could vary wildly in your part of the world. Solution: attorney. This doesn't mean you have to throw down thousands to get a bulldog on retainer tomorrow -- just get a consultation and an overview of your rights and likely outcomes and what things you do and do not want to to do ASAP.
posted by kmennie at 10:14 AM on October 24, 2016 [5 favorites]
I agree with those who have said that getting a legal agreement in place is a good idea. You guys need to have a clear agreement in place about things like where/when visitation will take place and what to do about holidays. YOU don't have to have a family-type relationship with your ex and his family, but you don't get to decide that your daughter never gets to see her dad or grandparents around the holidays. I can't 100% tell from your answer, but it sounds like relatives are visiting from a pretty long distance in order to see their granddaughter. You absolutely do not need to host them, but I don't think it's kosher to simply deny them any visitation at all. I would talk to your ex, figure out which days he is going to have visitation over the holidays (and it's fine to coordinate this with your travel -- maybe your daughter spends X-mas Eve with your ex and his family, and then Christmas Day you travel for holidays with your extended family). Then, tell him it's his responsibility for what he's doing with that time, but it won't be happening in your home.
So basically -- I don't think you need to treat this guy like YOUR family, but absent some issue of abuse, etc. (which at least from this post you don't say anything about), you also don't get to deny your daughter HER family -- and her dad is certainly her family.
posted by rainbowbrite at 10:16 AM on October 24, 2016
So basically -- I don't think you need to treat this guy like YOUR family, but absent some issue of abuse, etc. (which at least from this post you don't say anything about), you also don't get to deny your daughter HER family -- and her dad is certainly her family.
posted by rainbowbrite at 10:16 AM on October 24, 2016
You are legally required to allow visitation with the father unless there is harm or abuse after you divorce. His family has no rights in the matter. After that, never get between your daughter and her extended family or bad mouth him or them. It would be best if they could have their Christmas day and you and your family have a separate Christmas. Don't let him draw you into his fantasy and lies. Speak out, and be firm in letting the family know your marriage is done and dusted.
posted by BlueHorse at 10:25 AM on October 24, 2016
posted by BlueHorse at 10:25 AM on October 24, 2016
Best answer: To your ex: "We are NOT family, due to your own choices. It won't be possible for your family to stay with me when they visit, and it's up to you to explain this to them."
To his family: "It won't be possible for you to stay with me during your visit. Please work out your travel details with ex."
And then just keep repeating. "It won't be possible."
posted by raisingsand at 10:29 AM on October 24, 2016 [9 favorites]
To his family: "It won't be possible for you to stay with me during your visit. Please work out your travel details with ex."
And then just keep repeating. "It won't be possible."
posted by raisingsand at 10:29 AM on October 24, 2016 [9 favorites]
Response by poster: Thank you everyone. I am in NO WAY referring to taking her away from her father for a Holiday, to solely be away from him or his family. I am not the type of person, I encourage them and their relationship- I have and do bend over backwards to make sure she is always available to him. I think it is a misunderstanding becasue I didn't provide details. Yes, his family has met her, Yes, they will be in town from far but they will be here for 2 weeks. Every year I go to my family for xmas for 3 days... I only meant on the specific holiday, and I am not taking her anywhere for the other holiday that he celebrates (Thanksgiving), I am keeping her local so that he can decide what he wants to do with her for Thanksgiving. I am also coordinating with the family so they are available to her for a few days before and after Chrismas day. He has never been much of a Christmas person anyway. I am in no way just removing her from town to keep her away from her father or his family, those are not my intentions and never will be. My feelings were coming from the fact that he is assuming he will be hosting at my house since that is where he sees her now. He has no stable home right now to "host" her at, he comes and sees her for a couple hours at a time at my house, or takes her out for a couple hours in between nap/bedtime, while I do chores or get things done... I don't allow visits at his "home" because he has no room or crib for her nap time/bed time she is only 14 months and still naps twice and needs a crib, so her taking him to his "place" for a holiday would consist of 2 hours at a time. He is roomates with 3 different individuals whom he just met, and I have never met. He is allowed visitiaton whenever he wants it, and I have never denied his request once- I have been upset on more than one occasion because of him cancelling on his daughter. I have a lawyer providing me input. We can not have christmas day because my family is 8 hours away, so I have to spend a couple days there and obviously I can not invite him to spend the weekend at my families.
posted by MamaBee223 at 10:36 AM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by MamaBee223 at 10:36 AM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
Best answer: The "every year I do x" tradition is something that will probably have to bend now that you have a kid with someone you aren't together with anymore.
My family holiday traditions changed a lot after my parents split up. One of the main things that changed is that we used to travel to spend Christmas with my mom's side of the family. This became impossible after my parents' divorce because both parents wanted to see us, and there was no way my dad was going out of town to spend Christmas with his ex's family. So we made the change to spend Christmas in the town where both of my parents live.
Even now, every few years someone will propose going to Cancun or on a ski trip or something instead of the traditional family Christmas, and then we remember "wait but what about Dad..." and go back to the way our parents have been dividing Christmas since they split up almost 20 years ago.
You should probably say goodbye to whatever "but I always" family holiday traditions you had before you split up from the father of your child, unless your ex is on board with not seeing your daughter during that time of year (a hard sell in most divorced families I know). Holidays SUCK for divorced families where both parents are actually involved in the kids' lives. It's just how it is.
posted by Sara C. at 11:17 AM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
My family holiday traditions changed a lot after my parents split up. One of the main things that changed is that we used to travel to spend Christmas with my mom's side of the family. This became impossible after my parents' divorce because both parents wanted to see us, and there was no way my dad was going out of town to spend Christmas with his ex's family. So we made the change to spend Christmas in the town where both of my parents live.
Even now, every few years someone will propose going to Cancun or on a ski trip or something instead of the traditional family Christmas, and then we remember "wait but what about Dad..." and go back to the way our parents have been dividing Christmas since they split up almost 20 years ago.
You should probably say goodbye to whatever "but I always" family holiday traditions you had before you split up from the father of your child, unless your ex is on board with not seeing your daughter during that time of year (a hard sell in most divorced families I know). Holidays SUCK for divorced families where both parents are actually involved in the kids' lives. It's just how it is.
posted by Sara C. at 11:17 AM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
What is reasonable is that when his family visits, they should have similar visitation rights as he does. So that means visits to your house for a few hours at a time or visits to his place (or where ever they are staying) for a few hours. It is not reasonable for you to have them stay at your place - you want to be very clear that you respect his family as part of your daughter's family but they are no longer YOUR family since he is no longer your husband. It is then his problem to figure out where they are going to stay. It is up to him what he tells his family but make it clear that you will not lie for him and pretend things are other than they are. (I'm sure he will ask you to pretend in order to avoid upsetting them - don't agree!)
In terms of Christmas, if he is OK with what you are proposing - he gets priority for Thanksgiving, you get priority for Christmas and the day before and after, you will support access for the rest of the Christmas holiday then that is a reasonable proposal. But just because it seems reasonable to you doesn't mean that he will agree and you would need to have a tricky negotiation.
By the way, lots of divorced families split Christmas - one year Mom gets Thanksgiving and New Years, Dad gets Christmas and the next year it is reversed. In these families, there is no problem with traveling and spending holidays where ever and with whoever the designated parents chooses. The problem is this is your first time through and don't have an agreement yet.
posted by metahawk at 11:31 AM on October 24, 2016
In terms of Christmas, if he is OK with what you are proposing - he gets priority for Thanksgiving, you get priority for Christmas and the day before and after, you will support access for the rest of the Christmas holiday then that is a reasonable proposal. But just because it seems reasonable to you doesn't mean that he will agree and you would need to have a tricky negotiation.
By the way, lots of divorced families split Christmas - one year Mom gets Thanksgiving and New Years, Dad gets Christmas and the next year it is reversed. In these families, there is no problem with traveling and spending holidays where ever and with whoever the designated parents chooses. The problem is this is your first time through and don't have an agreement yet.
posted by metahawk at 11:31 AM on October 24, 2016
When my father left, he and his entire extended family cut all ties. I haven't seen or heard from any of them in decades. I Heard it Through the Grapevine when his parents died. We're all fine and okay with it.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 12:41 PM on October 24, 2016
posted by The Underpants Monster at 12:41 PM on October 24, 2016
Best answer: He needs to find a place to have custodial visits. He's taking advantage of you and maintaining a territorial(for lack of a better word) presence in your home. You're behaving in the best interest of your child, but he will get away with as much as he can, as much as you let him, and then some. The sooner you tighten the boundaries, the sooner you increase your expectations of him, the sooner you can rebuild your life. I know this from bitter experience.
He can take your daughter to story time at the Library, get a pass to the Children's museum, maybe visit on specified days for dinner and a story, but it should be scheduled and limited. He should pay child support.
You should teach her to love and respect her Dad and her Dad's family, facilitate healthy communication, be flexible with time for them to call and visit. He should be doing this, but may not, and it is in your child's best interest. If you can be in town with her for part of the time they are visiting, great. You have zero obligation to provide them with a pace to stay. If you want them to visit, fine, if not, say no. Say it pleasantly and firmly.
She can learn from you how to be caring & decent without being a pushover.
posted by theora55 at 2:21 PM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
He can take your daughter to story time at the Library, get a pass to the Children's museum, maybe visit on specified days for dinner and a story, but it should be scheduled and limited. He should pay child support.
You should teach her to love and respect her Dad and her Dad's family, facilitate healthy communication, be flexible with time for them to call and visit. He should be doing this, but may not, and it is in your child's best interest. If you can be in town with her for part of the time they are visiting, great. You have zero obligation to provide them with a pace to stay. If you want them to visit, fine, if not, say no. Say it pleasantly and firmly.
She can learn from you how to be caring & decent without being a pushover.
posted by theora55 at 2:21 PM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
Best answer: I nth the custodial visits issue. It's supposed to be "yay, daddy-daughter" time, NOT "look how lovely our family time is, if only mommy would come to her senses we could have this always" time.
You are under zero obligation to play hostess to his relatives. They are his relatives, not yours (read the emotional labor thread). You can drop off your daughter for them to spend time with her, but absolutely do not even have to invite them in to your house. At all. Ever.
He can get an extended stay hotel to stay with his relatives. Not your problem.
Have you considered the possibility that he might not even want to get back together after his relatives leave? That he just needs you as a hostess while they're there? Just a thought. What a sleazy way to worm himself back into your home. Just creepy!
Regardless, "getting back together for the kids sake" is a horrible idea. There are tons of studies available that prove that. Kids pick up on the resentment. They know when things are off.
Plus, kids are emulators. Do you want your daughter to grow up believing:
Daddy's wishes and demands are the Law of the Land. Mommy's wishes are - haha! what a joke - Mommy can only wish what daddy allows.
She could grow up either not listening to you - because why should she? Daddy never does! - or thinking it's perfectly normal to acquiesce to all her romantic partners* wishes/demands, after all, mommy never had to right to have boundaries with daddy.
* or roommates, coworkers, friends, etc.
Boundaries are a good thing and you are entitled to them. So is your daughter. So is everyone else on the planet. Never let anyone convince you otherwise.
posted by Neekee at 7:05 PM on October 24, 2016 [5 favorites]
You are under zero obligation to play hostess to his relatives. They are his relatives, not yours (read the emotional labor thread). You can drop off your daughter for them to spend time with her, but absolutely do not even have to invite them in to your house. At all. Ever.
He can get an extended stay hotel to stay with his relatives. Not your problem.
Have you considered the possibility that he might not even want to get back together after his relatives leave? That he just needs you as a hostess while they're there? Just a thought. What a sleazy way to worm himself back into your home. Just creepy!
Regardless, "getting back together for the kids sake" is a horrible idea. There are tons of studies available that prove that. Kids pick up on the resentment. They know when things are off.
Plus, kids are emulators. Do you want your daughter to grow up believing:
Daddy's wishes and demands are the Law of the Land. Mommy's wishes are - haha! what a joke - Mommy can only wish what daddy allows.
She could grow up either not listening to you - because why should she? Daddy never does! - or thinking it's perfectly normal to acquiesce to all her romantic partners* wishes/demands, after all, mommy never had to right to have boundaries with daddy.
* or roommates, coworkers, friends, etc.
Boundaries are a good thing and you are entitled to them. So is your daughter. So is everyone else on the planet. Never let anyone convince you otherwise.
posted by Neekee at 7:05 PM on October 24, 2016 [5 favorites]
Best answer: Having him spend time with her at your place seems messy and confusing. I can understand why you don't want him at his place, but could the visits be shorter so he's collecting her post nap and returning her before the next one? And once she drops the naps it should be him taking her out some place, not hanging around yours. I always found it ironic that when your parents are together you have to amuse yourself on weekends but as a divorced kid it's suddenly activities galore! on weekends as dad realises how much work it is keeping children occupied.
As for hosting is family; absolutely not. Even if you were a happy couple that's a big ask and you could say no, it is entirely off the table now.
Do you think he will explicitly tell them they aren't staying with you? I would feel really anxious until I knew they knew as having people turn up at my door thinking they were staying me is a nightmare scenario. I would be tempted to send an email like, so I heard you are coming for these days, Ex will have visits with baby between blah - blah o'clock on such and such dates; the times are fixed due to her naps so she will need to be returned promptly. And maybe mention some hotels/motels that are semi convenient (you don't want them super close to you!) and you can share the good activity suggestions other posters gave.
I don't want to put you in the position of organising their visit but for me I would find saying "you might want to book one of these hotels, they are convenient to X, Y& Z" is a lot easier than saying "so you know you can't stay with me, right?" and by being politely upfront about the times he'll have with baby minimises risk of being guilted into allowing more time ("we came so far! we want to see grand baby, wah wah).
Good luck. This is tough.
posted by kitten magic at 3:38 AM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
As for hosting is family; absolutely not. Even if you were a happy couple that's a big ask and you could say no, it is entirely off the table now.
Do you think he will explicitly tell them they aren't staying with you? I would feel really anxious until I knew they knew as having people turn up at my door thinking they were staying me is a nightmare scenario. I would be tempted to send an email like, so I heard you are coming for these days, Ex will have visits with baby between blah - blah o'clock on such and such dates; the times are fixed due to her naps so she will need to be returned promptly. And maybe mention some hotels/motels that are semi convenient (you don't want them super close to you!) and you can share the good activity suggestions other posters gave.
I don't want to put you in the position of organising their visit but for me I would find saying "you might want to book one of these hotels, they are convenient to X, Y& Z" is a lot easier than saying "so you know you can't stay with me, right?" and by being politely upfront about the times he'll have with baby minimises risk of being guilted into allowing more time ("we came so far! we want to see grand baby, wah wah).
Good luck. This is tough.
posted by kitten magic at 3:38 AM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
Best answer: kitten magic makes a good point. He could show up at your door with relatives and all their luggage. If that happens, would you be strong enough to say no? He might insist that it's just for the night (ha!). Or that, " OMG how could you hurt their feelings after they came all this way and break their hearts to tell them to leave???!!! They'll think they did something wrong, oh how could you??"
You need to hold your ground. Do you have a friend or relative that could come over on the day that they arrive and help you hold your ground? Ex doesn't have a key to the house, does he?
And if you do choose to email, you can write that "ex and I are no longer together, nor does he live with me anymore. Here are some great hotel choices for you."
posted by Neekee at 7:02 AM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
You need to hold your ground. Do you have a friend or relative that could come over on the day that they arrive and help you hold your ground? Ex doesn't have a key to the house, does he?
And if you do choose to email, you can write that "ex and I are no longer together, nor does he live with me anymore. Here are some great hotel choices for you."
posted by Neekee at 7:02 AM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
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Be willing to offend. People who push at your boundaries or pretend they don't even exist sure as hell aren't worried about offending you.
I feel bad taking her out of town for the holidays because that means he wiill be alone
Don't feel bad.
Is it terrible of me to consider him not part of my family now that we are separated, and to not want to be a part of his?
Not at all, not even a little bit.
If I were to continue welcoming him into my family and me into his, I would 1) lose my family because they don't want to be around him much 2) feel as if I am leading him on when he keeps telling me he will not give up and fight for me 3) keep myself in limbo when all I want is to focus on me right now and hopefully in the FUTURE have a family of my own.
This is all correct. These are solid reasons for maintaining your boundaries even as others try to chip away at them under some "we're family" pretense. Stick to your guns, don't worry about hurting feelings, look after yourself.
posted by prize bull octorok at 9:13 AM on October 24, 2016 [15 favorites]