Counsellor acting unethically?
April 23, 2016 9:37 AM Subscribe
If a counsellor is refusing to follow the law on reporting child protection concerns, is this okay?
If a mom who has suffered abuse has kids and sometimes reports stuff to her counsellor - some of which is obvious abuse by the ex - is it okay for the counsellor to ignore the law on this and not report? This is in a jurisdiction where all adults have the duty to report suspected or likely abuse or neglect, even if they aren't sure it counts, and where they have the duty to report even if they think someone else has reported it or it's been investigated.
The counsellor thinks it makes far more sense for the mom to identify cases of abuse and have control over reporting. When the mom brings stuff up, the counsellor never mentions duty to report. Mom has pushed this conflict to the side for many years, but is now really starting to feel that this is unethical and damaging for her, since it basically condones the abuse and adds to her confusion. When finally confronted, counsellor has said she thinks the CPS people here are a complete mess and unlikely to help - they have previous taken the ex's word even when there were bruises and cuts and the kid was disclosing to medical professionals. The counsellor thinks that reporting takes away the mother's power and that the counsellor is prepared to accept any consequences of not reporting But mom is starting to feel this is very unethical and that the counsellor is just becoming part of the system of injustice. However, she is otherwise extremely happy with the counsellor and feels she has made really good progress. But she feels that the counsellor is breaking the law and acting unethically and, having gone through this for many years, is not sure what to do about this. Mom does think that it is helpful for her (mom) to have control over her life, reporting and how things are shared, but she also thinks this is really unethical and that it basically puts her in the position of, in some ways, feeling like her counsellor is part of the same system of abuse and minimization that her ex engages in. Mom has asked several friends, including counsellors and social workers, if this is okay and they all point to the law, but the counsellor says she doesn't care what other people think, because she does not think this is helpful to her client's therapy progress. Mom is feeling really distressed because she can't figure out which sets of ethics is more important.
If a mom who has suffered abuse has kids and sometimes reports stuff to her counsellor - some of which is obvious abuse by the ex - is it okay for the counsellor to ignore the law on this and not report? This is in a jurisdiction where all adults have the duty to report suspected or likely abuse or neglect, even if they aren't sure it counts, and where they have the duty to report even if they think someone else has reported it or it's been investigated.
The counsellor thinks it makes far more sense for the mom to identify cases of abuse and have control over reporting. When the mom brings stuff up, the counsellor never mentions duty to report. Mom has pushed this conflict to the side for many years, but is now really starting to feel that this is unethical and damaging for her, since it basically condones the abuse and adds to her confusion. When finally confronted, counsellor has said she thinks the CPS people here are a complete mess and unlikely to help - they have previous taken the ex's word even when there were bruises and cuts and the kid was disclosing to medical professionals. The counsellor thinks that reporting takes away the mother's power and that the counsellor is prepared to accept any consequences of not reporting But mom is starting to feel this is very unethical and that the counsellor is just becoming part of the system of injustice. However, she is otherwise extremely happy with the counsellor and feels she has made really good progress. But she feels that the counsellor is breaking the law and acting unethically and, having gone through this for many years, is not sure what to do about this. Mom does think that it is helpful for her (mom) to have control over her life, reporting and how things are shared, but she also thinks this is really unethical and that it basically puts her in the position of, in some ways, feeling like her counsellor is part of the same system of abuse and minimization that her ex engages in. Mom has asked several friends, including counsellors and social workers, if this is okay and they all point to the law, but the counsellor says she doesn't care what other people think, because she does not think this is helpful to her client's therapy progress. Mom is feeling really distressed because she can't figure out which sets of ethics is more important.
This post was deleted for the following reason: Sorry, this question already has a lot of the flavor of "amirite" - that is, building in the answer you want to hear as the only acceptable answer... and combined with the "for a friend" aspect, it puts the whole thing into unworkable territory for AskMe. Once you've asked several questions for the same friend, that person should get their own account so they can speak for themselves directly. -- LobsterMitten
Best answer: In my view, the welfare of a child trumps any other concerns. There's a reason why there are mandated reporters--to protect children.
The correct thing to do here is to protect the children. If the counsellor won't, it's up to the mother to do so. And then report the hell out of the counsellor for refusing to do her legal and ethical duty to look after children.
I get, from personal experience, that establishing a therapeutic relationship is extremely difficult and thus very hard to give up. That inconvenience doesn't matter stacked up against children being abused.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 9:55 AM on April 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
The correct thing to do here is to protect the children. If the counsellor won't, it's up to the mother to do so. And then report the hell out of the counsellor for refusing to do her legal and ethical duty to look after children.
I get, from personal experience, that establishing a therapeutic relationship is extremely difficult and thus very hard to give up. That inconvenience doesn't matter stacked up against children being abused.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 9:55 AM on April 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
Why is the mom refusing to report this herself? What does she think will happen differently if the counselor, not the mom, is the reporter?
And while it's true counselors are usually mandated reporters, in this case does the counselor know of the abuse first-hand, or only second-hand and through the mother? (I.e, does the counselor know about any abuse through talking directly to and/or directly observing the child involved?) That may make a legal difference.
posted by easily confused at 9:59 AM on April 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
And while it's true counselors are usually mandated reporters, in this case does the counselor know of the abuse first-hand, or only second-hand and through the mother? (I.e, does the counselor know about any abuse through talking directly to and/or directly observing the child involved?) That may make a legal difference.
posted by easily confused at 9:59 AM on April 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
In "The Gift of Fear," Gavin de Becker talks about restraining orders and how sometimes people think that simply filing a restraining order will protect them, whereas in some cases it makes the abuse worse. The cliche is that "pieces of paper don't stop bullets." Not to minimize the mom's sense of discomfort with this, but is it possible that the counselor is proceeding carefully along these lines?
I get the sense not, since the counselor seems to be trying to empower the mother to report, but the treading carefully made me think of that book.
posted by spelunkingplato at 9:59 AM on April 23, 2016
I get the sense not, since the counselor seems to be trying to empower the mother to report, but the treading carefully made me think of that book.
posted by spelunkingplato at 9:59 AM on April 23, 2016
Response by poster: Just to be clear, the mother and some other agencies have made multiple reports. The mom even took a complaint far up the chain and asked for an appeal. But the mom is very, very concerned that, over the years, when she has questioned whether stuff is abuse or whether it's reportable, the counsellor has refused to answer or said she needs to answer that and also has never brought up reporting anything the mom has disclosed. Mom found this made things very confusing because the counsellor said at the very first meeting that she must legally report any suspicions and that she would always tell the mom if this happened. So the mom, while questioning what is going on and whether things are okay, has sometimes thought that maybe she just is crazy because surely the counsellor would have said this stuff is abuse and reportable.
Yes, it is second hand. But the law here says you have to report second hand information.
posted by Chaussette and the Pussy Cats at 10:06 AM on April 23, 2016
Yes, it is second hand. But the law here says you have to report second hand information.
posted by Chaussette and the Pussy Cats at 10:06 AM on April 23, 2016
Putting myself in the counselor's position (I am a mandated reporter in my state but do not carry a client caseload...I am someone who does initial intake assessments)...if I am relatively certain the abuse being disclosed to me has already been reported I do not have to report that abuse again. So this is where we don't really know what kind of conversation is going on between the mom and the counselor, which affects our answers somewhat. Is mom ruminating on some past abuse that has already been reported and investigated? Is mom ruminating on feeling victimized still and counselor is trying to work her past that? Is mom wanting multiple people to report on the same abuse thinking that the more reports there are the better the case is? These nuances can affect how the counselor is responding.
Also, when someone asks me if a particular event is child abuse, I try REALLY hard to dodge that answer because I am simply not qualified to determine if an event fits the legal definition of abuse. That's the role of the investigators and/or judge (depending on how the case moves through the system). I can state that a situation should be reported, but cannot comment on the likelihood of it being investigated and founded. It's possible the counselor is doing the same thing. From what you are saying so far, it sounds like there is more nuance to the conversations between counselor and client that we are missing.
posted by MultiFaceted at 10:20 AM on April 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
Also, when someone asks me if a particular event is child abuse, I try REALLY hard to dodge that answer because I am simply not qualified to determine if an event fits the legal definition of abuse. That's the role of the investigators and/or judge (depending on how the case moves through the system). I can state that a situation should be reported, but cannot comment on the likelihood of it being investigated and founded. It's possible the counselor is doing the same thing. From what you are saying so far, it sounds like there is more nuance to the conversations between counselor and client that we are missing.
posted by MultiFaceted at 10:20 AM on April 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
Best answer: My understanding of mandated reporting is that it exists in part for exactly these situations. That's why it's mandated.
I know there are probably times that kids are being abused and it's hopeless and I can't pretend to know the truth to the idea that there is no hope for these kids of help. But I find the idea of counseling a client to let her kids be abused extremely problematic.
posted by warriorqueen at 10:21 AM on April 23, 2016
I know there are probably times that kids are being abused and it's hopeless and I can't pretend to know the truth to the idea that there is no hope for these kids of help. But I find the idea of counseling a client to let her kids be abused extremely problematic.
posted by warriorqueen at 10:21 AM on April 23, 2016
Legal stuff aside, and only thinking about ethics, I imagine that the counselor figures that (a) reporting abuse won't help the children (and she has evidence to support that); (b) reporting abuse may harm her client in various ways and only the client knows how that will go for her, so it's safer for her client to let her decide; and (c) it is the mother's responsibility to determine how best to protect her kids.
I'm not sure why the mother sees this as being part of the system of abuse. I almost get the impression that the mom doesn't want to take responsibility for reporting but wants someone else to? If she asks the counselor to report something for her, will she?
posted by metasarah at 10:21 AM on April 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm not sure why the mother sees this as being part of the system of abuse. I almost get the impression that the mom doesn't want to take responsibility for reporting but wants someone else to? If she asks the counselor to report something for her, will she?
posted by metasarah at 10:21 AM on April 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Mom just about always reports and, on later reports, has reported stuff that wasn't reported earlier. But Mom has a serious ethical problem with others not reporting when the law says they are supposed to. However, Mom is unsure if she's unrealistic to expect others to follow the law. But, given how often her ex breaks the law, she just feels like everyone else is part of this big system of breaking the law. Mom is not trying to get anyone to report past abuse - this is stuff that keeps coming up and isn't going away.
posted by Chaussette and the Pussy Cats at 10:28 AM on April 23, 2016
posted by Chaussette and the Pussy Cats at 10:28 AM on April 23, 2016
Best answer: Sometimes, when people have been in abusive situations and have had no overt ways of exerting power over situations, they respond by becoming passive aggressive and manipulative. It's the only way they can get their needs met without provoking further abuse. So they don't feel safe enough to say "I am going to stop this abuse". Instead, they say "my counsellor is mandated to report this abuse, nothing to do with me".
They may then seek the authority of third parties to support this - again, "it's not that I disagree with my counsellor, but the internet says x, y and z". Or within families "Cousin Sally says you're being really selfish" instead of "I don't want you to do this".
I am getting similar feelings with this post - the passive third person voice, the appeals to third party authorities. It may be that your counsellor is trying to break these unhealthy patterns, and is trying not to avoid getting into a weird power dynamic where you try to force her into doing what you want her to do without actually owning the fact that that is what you want.
Apologies if I'm completely off base, but I would start by talking frankly to the counsellor about what your goals are re: the counsellor reporting, and see how you can go about getting those goals met on your own.
posted by tinkletown at 10:30 AM on April 23, 2016 [6 favorites]
They may then seek the authority of third parties to support this - again, "it's not that I disagree with my counsellor, but the internet says x, y and z". Or within families "Cousin Sally says you're being really selfish" instead of "I don't want you to do this".
I am getting similar feelings with this post - the passive third person voice, the appeals to third party authorities. It may be that your counsellor is trying to break these unhealthy patterns, and is trying not to avoid getting into a weird power dynamic where you try to force her into doing what you want her to do without actually owning the fact that that is what you want.
Apologies if I'm completely off base, but I would start by talking frankly to the counsellor about what your goals are re: the counsellor reporting, and see how you can go about getting those goals met on your own.
posted by tinkletown at 10:30 AM on April 23, 2016 [6 favorites]
Response by poster: This post is in the third person because that's how we agreed I would write this post and because it's a stylistic convention - I have kids with medical problems and my doctor says stuff like, "Mom says ____" when I am sitting there is the same room, so I do the same when I am discussing others. She's repeatedly made reports, so it's not that she isn't reporting. It's that she is very concerned about the law around child protection not being followed. Mom has no qualms about telling the counsellor she thinks this is really wrong.
posted by Chaussette and the Pussy Cats at 10:41 AM on April 23, 2016
posted by Chaussette and the Pussy Cats at 10:41 AM on April 23, 2016
This thread is closed to new comments.
Now, if the counselor is trying to get mom to report abuse in order to have agency and control over her life that is a different conversation that we are only getting one side of at the moment. And there is a difference in reporting versus filing a police report (in my state mandated reporters can fax a form to the child abuse hotline sharing the details they know, and the investigators take it from there. They made it easy to do to avoid barriers to reporting). But the counselor can't circumvent the law for a therapeutic goal.
posted by MultiFaceted at 9:51 AM on April 23, 2016