My PhD supervisor is moving to a different university. Should I go with?

March 27, 2016 3:40 AM

My PhD supervisor is getting a new job. I want to move with him, but the new university doesn’t seem as good as my current one. It is decidedly weaker in my field and much less well-known overall. I am not sure whether I should go to the new university, stay at the current one, or try to graduate from my current university while also working with my current supervisor.

I started my engineering PhD a little under a year ago at a large research university in Australia. My supervisor has been really great, and I’ve really gotten into my PhD topic. My supervisor, an early career researcher, just told me that he’s most likely going to move the group to another university about a 2 hours flight away. The new university is offering him a permanent role/more funding, and current university is not. He really wants me to come with him, but I'm not quite sure.

My options, as far as I can see it are:
1. Move to my supervisor’s new university and transfer my PhD scholarship over so I’m a student of the new university (I’ve confirmed this is possible).
2. Move to the new University, and somehow continue my candidature at the current university. This would probably be my preferred option, but my supervisor cannot guarantee it at this point, as it would depend on the bureaucracy of the current university and the approval of the department heads.
3. Stay at the current university and find a new supervisor/project. I’m not keen on this option because I don’t know anyone at my current institution that I want to work with (however, it is a very large university, and I don't know everyone).
4. Try to transfer to a third, different university (not sure how feasible this one is, and don't have anyone in mind)

I’d really like to stay with my current supervisor, as he’s pretty awesome. My project also looks very promising, not only academically, but commercially as well. We’ve actually got interest from a couple of external investors who want to invest in a spin out, so I could in theory create my own job at the end, which would be amazing (although far from guaranteed).

I really don’t mind moving to a new city and lab. I am in no way attached to my current university, and don’t have a strong network here. However, my current place does have a good reputation and is the leader in my field in my country. My current university is also one of the top research institutions here, while the new university is not strong research-wise and is ranked way lower (in fact, I had only vaguely heard of this new university before my supervisor brought it up). My supervisor assures me that the new university is investing heavily in our research field and has a new research centre with all the required facilities. However, my concern is that a degree from this university may have less currency, job-wise. I wonder if this could have a big effect on my career prospects? My career goal is to get into industrial R&D in some form, but also don’t want to rule out academic options. I imagine where you did your PhD would matter somewhat in both cases.

So I’m trying to figure out which of my options I should pursue. As mentioned, I’m not sure how easy it will be to keep doing my PhD at my current place while also moving with my current supervisor. If it was possible, it would definitely not be easy – e.g., I would have to fly back to my current city often to do the confirmation, tie up coursework, etc. So, it then becomes a matter of how much I should fight to get my degree from the original institution (or if I should just transfer).

posted by cestlavie to Work & Money (17 answers total)

Wow, this is a complex question.

Yes, a top university will increase your odds of becoming a professor. It may also look better to recruiters.

That being said, you are going to need publications to get any other kind of job. I project you really like and an advisor you get along with help with both of those. I have no idea how people finish PhDs on projects their not into or with advisors they can't get along with. They seem both miserable and incredibly self disciplined.

Getting a job has a lot to do with connections. If you're great at making them, which university you're at had less impact. The same if your advisor is incredibly well connected. Finally, working with companies before you graduate can nearly guarantee a good job upon graduation (when both parties get along) and those situations seem ideal to me.

Good luck.
posted by Kalmya at 3:54 AM on March 27, 2016 [2 favorites]

In the life sciences field, your individual track record (publications and grants/fellowships) is much, much more important than your university. And having a project you like with a supportive supervisor with whom you get along is invaluable. So I'd stick with your current supervisor, and go with him, as chances are you and your project would move to the back burner if you stay at your current institution.
That being said, I'm not sure how much university reputation matters in the engineering field.
posted by emd3737 at 4:13 AM on March 27, 2016 [4 favorites]

In the U.S. university rank is important in getting an academic research professorship in engineering. A very, very strong publication record is required to become a professor at an institution ranked higher than your phd university. You only need a very strong publication record to become a professor if you started at a top institution. I'm not sure how this translates to Australia.
posted by Kalmya at 4:22 AM on March 27, 2016

Wait until you know whether option 2 is possible. A friend had a similar situation, moved with the supervisor to the new university but got a co-supervisor at the old prestigious university and got the degree still from there. The co-supervisor just stated what their requirements for graduation were and otherwise the supervision was done by the old advisor. Worked out well.
posted by meijusa at 4:25 AM on March 27, 2016 [6 favorites]

Number two is a pretty common scenario, I'd be very surprised if they didn't have everything in place for that already. As an example, I wasn't based at a university at all for my PhD and moved all around the country working in different labs (this was in NZ). I did a lot of meetings by teleconference or by the Uni professor coming to me or, yes, by going to the Uni myself for the occasional meeting and for the oral exam at the end. None if it was a big deal and I benefitted a lot by having input from multiple organisations. So definitely follow up on that option with your department because your situation (ie professor moving) is not unusual at all
posted by shelleycat at 4:28 AM on March 27, 2016 [1 favorite]

I personally know people who have done option 2 (although not in Australia and not in engineering). You should push hard for that and you should ask your supervisor to do the same. Presuming that he has some good ties at the current university, you may be able to get a second co-advisor that just signs the necessary paperwork.
posted by Betelgeuse at 4:34 AM on March 27, 2016 [1 favorite]

nthing that 2 is common and 3/4 are bad ideas. but if you go with 2 do keep in touch with, and accommodate, whoever is your contact at your "official" university. it's a big red flag if they start to question what you're doing, because you need them on your side for your final viva / examination.
posted by andrewcooke at 5:05 AM on March 27, 2016

In my experience, which is in US universities, option 2 is usually what happens. If a student has completed coursework, selected an advisor and begun research, they usually end up with a degree from the university where those things were done.

You will have to return to your original university for committee meetings as well as your defense. It will be harder to wrangle the herd of cats that is your committee - they are less invested in you than if you were physically at the same university. The advice to be friendly and nice to your contacts at your original university is good advice.

Good luck!
posted by sciencegeek at 5:21 AM on March 27, 2016

Intending no disrespect to people who've already answered, but the stakes here are high and you will only be able to get truly helpful answers from people who are familiar with your specific engineering field, in Australia, at the two relevant departments. I'd recommend looking up recent (3-10 years out) phds and contacting them for advice.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 5:28 AM on March 27, 2016 [16 favorites]

Intending no disrespect to people who've already answered, but the stakes here are high and you will only be able to get truly helpful answers from people who are familiar with your specific engineering field, in Australia, at the two relevant departments. I'd recommend looking up recent (3-10 years out) phds and contacting them for advice.

I agree with this. Here in the US, everyone I have known in this situation chose to physically follow the advisor, sometimes getting their PhD from the new place and sometimes from the old place, depending mostly on how far along they were. The one exception was a guy I knew who chose your option #3; he did end up graduating but it added a fair bit of time due to needing to refocus on a different set of questions.

But that is here, and your system and hiring norms are probably different enough to make this kind of general advice not worth very much. The advice to talk to semi-recent graduates who can speak directly to those issues is perfect.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:33 AM on March 27, 2016

Have you spoken with anyone at your University's postgraduate office, or with the postgraduate coordinator in your department? This is a situation that has almost certainly happened before, and these people will be able to tell you what the University's policies are. Don't rely on your supervisor to give you this information.
posted by Shal at 8:30 AM on March 27, 2016

I've done option 2 (because the move was a little late for option 1), and it was fine. It was basically identical to option 1 except for the name of the awarding body on my degree certificate.

I would be VERY careful about options 3&4 - it's hard to overstate how much of a PhD can come down to a good working relationship with your supervisor, and starting that from scratch would be a big risk. IME academia in the sciences is much more about who you've worked/collaborated with than where you did so ("Oh, you worked in Prof X's group? Where has she moved to now?"). Nthing ROU_Xenophobe's advice, though - definitely check with others.
posted by doop at 9:02 AM on March 27, 2016

You're early enough in your program that either going with your supervisor or staying and finding a new one are both good options. I don't recommend staying at the current university and doing long-distance with your supervisor as sole supervisor, the quality of his help will take a nosedive, and you will likely suffer for it.

To make an informed decision either way, you should definitely investigate your options for other supervising researchers at your current university, and arrange to meet them.

If you are thinking an academic career is something you want to keep as an option, the name of the institution is very important to other institutions. It shouldn't be a problem to stay at your current institution - someone will be quite happy to take you on given that you already have funding. But you must find someone who will be a good mentor in both personality compatibility and ability to guide you in the kind of research you want to pursue. This will make all the difference in a quality thesis and your mental health by the end... another 3 years is a long time to go.

If you're 100% set on going into industrial research, the name of your supervisor often carries as much weight as the institution - they're interested in specific projects, and proven track records of the research team itself, after all. The money follows the research lead, and with time and publications, the reputation of the team at the new institution will grow. The new facilities would also be quite appealing to me as a researcher - new equipment can make a huge difference in the detection capabilities and spectrum of analyses you can do on your experimental products.

If you already have interested potential investors for your current project, that could mean a great deal of benefit for you - additional stipend possibly, future job prospects, great contacts. It would be worth talking to them about the project moving to the other institution and if they would continue to be interested there.

--> A fourth option may be to get a new research supervisor at your current institution and have your old supervisor remain part of your committee, if he's willing. Ideally you could have co-advisors, but this would require talking to your supervisor to see i) whether he's willing and ii) who he would recommend. Their relationship would be quite important. You still need someone available to you day-to-day to guide your progress, your old supervisor would only check in periodically. I would only consider this if both supervisors were wholly on-board.
posted by lizbunny at 9:06 AM on March 27, 2016 [1 favorite]

In response to doop's IME about academia's priorities -

IME if you ultimately want to get a job as a tenured professor in the sciences, the departments and university do highly value where you did your program.

When it comes to the research itself, yes your social network and professional affiliation with other prominent researchers is very important for your professional growth and success. But outside of that circle of researchers, the rest of the academic world isn't likely to know those researchers by name, their institutions are what's important because that's what is recognizable.

And unfortunately that is what the people in charge of hiring are most concerned about, improving their institution's visibility with perceived alignment with higher-profile institutions.

I've been a spectator to the hiring practices of my old department for 15 years now, left about 5 years ago but still have friends there who have been keeping me updated on the gossip and drama. New profs, profs leaving, graduates trying to further their academic careers... i do not miss being so affected by political maneuverings of academic management.
posted by lizbunny at 9:31 AM on March 27, 2016 [1 favorite]

Just to echo ROU Xenophobe's comment: you really should not be relying on us for advice here. Well intentioned though it may be, most of the comments you're going to get here will come from people whose primary experience pertains to a radically different university system (Australia is not very similar to the US in this respect) and to very different disciplines (most of us aren't in your field).

A few idle thoughts:

- You probably don't have time to start a new project. If you are in Australia then you are probably funded through an APA scholarship. If you are 1 year into your candidature, you have only 2 years of funding left. Switching projects at this stage can be a risky proposition, and institutions are often wary of this because their funding is tied to your completion in a timely fashion. If you're going to switch now you'll need a clear plan to complete quickly.

- The reputation of universities is a tricky business. Australians might indeed make a big distinction between the Universities of New South Wales and New England, for instance, but most international colleagues of mine wouldn't have the slightest clue, nor would they see much reason to care. Similarly. you say you're considering industry R&D. Go8 universities (mostly, not always) tend to have the strongest academic reputations, but they aren't always well regarded by industry because they emphasise basic research over applied research. Depending on where your advisor is moving to, there's a pretty good chance that no-one in industry will care all that much.

- Most importantly... the difference between fields is huge. I know that in my sub-discipline in Australia the university wouldn't matter all that much, and I'd probably suggest going with your advisor if you don't have a problem with moving cities. But I know several people who I trust who would say it works the other way around in their field.

In short: I cannot recommend strongly enough the advice to ignore all of us on Metafilter and go find someone who knows the lay of the land in your field in Australia.
posted by langtonsant at 2:01 PM on March 27, 2016 [5 favorites]

Response by poster: Thanks guys for all the advice so far. I agree I should probably be seeking out local people to talk to instead of the internet. BUT it's a bit difficult as I'm apparently the only one who knows at this stage about the move, so am bound to secrecy. Hopefully it will become public soon and I can being picking others brains in person.

I agree with the comment by langtonsant that maybe brand isn't as important in the Australian context. I don't think people overseas, particularly in industry, will really know much about our uni's here. I am definitely leaning towards industrial career. Unlike universities, they're probably not perpetually looking up tables of university rankings.

I will probably prioritise options 1 and 2, given the importance of the supervisor relationship and the limited time/funding to finish this degree, as pointed out. Going down in prestige would be annoying, but maybe palatable. I will definitely try my best to find a way to stay at my current place for the degree though while I get more info.
posted by cestlavie at 4:54 PM on March 27, 2016

In my experience, your Option 2 is generally only considered for medium/senior students with under two years to go. When my adviser announced his intention to move to a different university, the dividing line in our group (12-15 students) was whether we could finish the physical experiment before the move date. I collected all the data I needed, and started writing, and actually finished before he left. Others stayed on writing and graduated from University1 after he'd left; I think that process involved re-organization of the thesis committee to have co-chairs, because an external was not allowed to be the sole dissertation adviser? So my advice is, look into your university's rules. Also, it's good that you're thinking about your options but really you don't have enough info yet, this will be an easier decision once he's made the announcement and you can discuss with the department and the universities.
posted by aimedwander at 10:23 AM on March 28, 2016 [1 favorite]