Why are dogs so extra afraid of thunder?
November 14, 2015 9:19 PM Subscribe
This is really a multiple-part, branching question. 1. Are wolves that afraid of thunder? 2. If they aren't, why are dogs? (Subquestion: Did we have something to do with it?) 3. If they are, why haven't they evolved out of it? And it goes on from there. Cats in my experience don't freak out nearly as much. I don't know about things like elephants or hyenas, who also must face grave threat from lightning.
There doesn't seem to be a shred of anything worth reading about this anywhere.
Why would they evolve out of it? Has any dog every died of this? Has any dog ever refused to mate with a dog that is afraid of thunder? Has any human ever selectively bred against this? (actually, that last one might happen for some kinds of working dogs...it would be interesting to see if the the thunder phobia varies across breeds, even within fur types).
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 9:52 PM on November 14, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 9:52 PM on November 14, 2015 [6 favorites]
I don't think it's all dogs.
We had a fox terrier who was terrified of thunder and fireworks too. would hide under the covers of peoples beds and then poop himself.
We also had a German Shepard (not a show breed, but a working dog from a police breeder) and she did not get scared of thunder or loud noises at all. This could be the breeding maybe? You wouldnt want the dog to run away scared of loud noises.
No special training or anything that would explain it for either of them.
posted by Iax at 11:43 PM on November 14, 2015
We had a fox terrier who was terrified of thunder and fireworks too. would hide under the covers of peoples beds and then poop himself.
We also had a German Shepard (not a show breed, but a working dog from a police breeder) and she did not get scared of thunder or loud noises at all. This could be the breeding maybe? You wouldnt want the dog to run away scared of loud noises.
No special training or anything that would explain it for either of them.
posted by Iax at 11:43 PM on November 14, 2015
The selection pressures on dogs are different than on wild animals. They are being bred for their looks now to the exclusion of everything else, including being bred for features that are actually a detriment to their physical health and ability to mate with other dogs.
From what I understand, some breeds are much more prone to anxiety and excitability than others. These breeds are likely the same ones that suffer most from fear of thunder. If bred with calmer dog breeds this trait could disappear.
posted by treehorn+bunny at 12:04 AM on November 15, 2015 [6 favorites]
From what I understand, some breeds are much more prone to anxiety and excitability than others. These breeds are likely the same ones that suffer most from fear of thunder. If bred with calmer dog breeds this trait could disappear.
posted by treehorn+bunny at 12:04 AM on November 15, 2015 [6 favorites]
My dog isn't afraid of thunder at all. He isn't afraid of fireworks, either, though I haven't exposed him to anything really crazy.
He does get kind of restless if there is a lot of wind, as does all the wildlife around us. A hunting person I know says it is because their senses are confused, particularly all the scents get thrown around in ways they can't parse.
Back to thunder-storms: my experience is that dogs (and other domestic animals) latch on to whatever sentiment they are getting from their owners - often dogs who are scared of other dogs and act aggressively are in reality reacting to what their owners are subconsciously communicating. So maybe even if one is trying to hide ones fear of thunder and lightning, the animals can read whatever emotion you are actually feeling and react with that.
Not much science to back this opinion up with, though.
posted by mumimor at 1:40 AM on November 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
He does get kind of restless if there is a lot of wind, as does all the wildlife around us. A hunting person I know says it is because their senses are confused, particularly all the scents get thrown around in ways they can't parse.
Back to thunder-storms: my experience is that dogs (and other domestic animals) latch on to whatever sentiment they are getting from their owners - often dogs who are scared of other dogs and act aggressively are in reality reacting to what their owners are subconsciously communicating. So maybe even if one is trying to hide ones fear of thunder and lightning, the animals can read whatever emotion you are actually feeling and react with that.
Not much science to back this opinion up with, though.
posted by mumimor at 1:40 AM on November 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
Came here to say what treehorn+bunny said ... selection pressure/evolution is directed by humans.
As some are saying, not all dogs are afraid has been my experience. I had one that seemed actually pissed off about it. She would run outside and bark like WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON OUT HERE WE'RE TRYING TO CHILL OUT IF YOU DON'T MIND.
posted by falsedmitri at 1:51 AM on November 15, 2015 [11 favorites]
As some are saying, not all dogs are afraid has been my experience. I had one that seemed actually pissed off about it. She would run outside and bark like WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON OUT HERE WE'RE TRYING TO CHILL OUT IF YOU DON'T MIND.
posted by falsedmitri at 1:51 AM on November 15, 2015 [11 favorites]
My dog is really chill most of the time, but if there's a really terrific crack of thunder he will flinch, look alert, and beeline for shelter, which actually seems like a pretty useful response and something I can see a wolf doing.
posted by Juliet Banana at 2:30 AM on November 15, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Juliet Banana at 2:30 AM on November 15, 2015 [2 favorites]
If it's starting to get stormy and my windows are open, my dog will run to them and sniff furiously at the terror air. He definitely knows when a storm is coming and goes into prep mode. But thunder? Meh. He sleeps right through it, dgaf. It's like once he decides we're all safe then nothing outside matters.
I've always figured it's because he's spent his whole life, since he was 9 weeks old, in a very loud and rowdy neighborhood, where crashes and bangs are just a part of life. It's normal for him.
It's not like he's some big tough guy, either. He's afraid of plastic bags.
posted by phunniemee at 5:06 AM on November 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
I've always figured it's because he's spent his whole life, since he was 9 weeks old, in a very loud and rowdy neighborhood, where crashes and bangs are just a part of life. It's normal for him.
It's not like he's some big tough guy, either. He's afraid of plastic bags.
posted by phunniemee at 5:06 AM on November 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
I think some dogs (maybe all) can sense something, maybe the barometric pressure change or static, as noted above. I use 1 of my dogs to determine how bad a storm is going to be. My oldest dog will start trembling, pacing, sitting in odd corners of the house, and generally look pathetically terrified even before any thunder is heard, if it's a really bad storm.
posted by Fig at 5:31 AM on November 15, 2015
posted by Fig at 5:31 AM on November 15, 2015
It might be of interest that, if I'm not mistaken, animals that were to be used in the military during combat and used in other circumstances like hunting have to be trained so that they're not gun shy. I looked up a definition of gunshy and by chance an example usage Wiktionary gives is,
2007, Paul Long, Training Pointing Dogs, 2nd edition, page 38:posted by XMLicious at 6:17 AM on November 15, 2015But very few dogs become gunshy if they are introduced to the bang while they are overcome with the delight of chasing game, particularly if the trainer begins with a light noise and works up to louder noises in easy stages
For the record, all three of my cats are bothered by lightning and one is outright terrified of it. Some domesticated animals react poorly to novel stimuli; in the wild this probably wouldn't end well (too scared to hunt?).
posted by Nyx at 6:46 AM on November 15, 2015
posted by Nyx at 6:46 AM on November 15, 2015
Agreed on both counts: 1) Not all dogs 2) We don't actually know what they're reacting to.
On the first point, one of my dogs is terrified of sky noises (but significantly more of weather noise and fireworks than Naval Air Show directly over our house one weekend every year, which terrified *me*), the other two aren't huge fans of tornadoes and hail and refuse to get wet if it's raining, but they don't even react to thunder and lightning.
On the second, it has been observed that some fearful dogs choose a hiding place that provides an earth/ground, such as behind the toilet or in a bathtub, when they do not choose those places to hide for other reasons (sick, strangers, tired, in trouble). There are some theories that dogs, being very badly-bred wolves, do not properly process the same signals that most wildlife take as "go home because the weather's going to get nasty" - the dog is trying to do what its instincts say, it's just very bad at it.
My one dog with the sky noise problem is generally a significantly more nervous dog than the others, and the most sensitive (me just getting frustrated at a misbehaving computer or irritating email is enough to drive him from the room). He is also afraid of the broom. I think he just doesn't dog very well.
posted by Lyn Never at 8:05 AM on November 15, 2015 [2 favorites]
On the first point, one of my dogs is terrified of sky noises (but significantly more of weather noise and fireworks than Naval Air Show directly over our house one weekend every year, which terrified *me*), the other two aren't huge fans of tornadoes and hail and refuse to get wet if it's raining, but they don't even react to thunder and lightning.
On the second, it has been observed that some fearful dogs choose a hiding place that provides an earth/ground, such as behind the toilet or in a bathtub, when they do not choose those places to hide for other reasons (sick, strangers, tired, in trouble). There are some theories that dogs, being very badly-bred wolves, do not properly process the same signals that most wildlife take as "go home because the weather's going to get nasty" - the dog is trying to do what its instincts say, it's just very bad at it.
My one dog with the sky noise problem is generally a significantly more nervous dog than the others, and the most sensitive (me just getting frustrated at a misbehaving computer or irritating email is enough to drive him from the room). He is also afraid of the broom. I think he just doesn't dog very well.
posted by Lyn Never at 8:05 AM on November 15, 2015 [2 favorites]
I have a border collie-Aussie mix who is terrified of both thunder and fireworks. With storms, she usually will start being upset before actual thunder can be heard, and we've presumed it has something to do with barometric changes.
She shakes, comes to us for reassurance, and preferably also hides under something at the same time (so if we're sitting at the kitchen or dining room table when a storm is brewing, that's ideal because she can hide under the table but touching our feet).
I know it's not a feeling she's picking up from us, because she's been this way with a variety of people, including the family she originally lived with, me, my ex, and my mom. She also is already upset if a human comes home when a storm has already started.
I too am surprised it hasn't evolved out. I do think that dogs who are that terrified may well be shortening their lives, especially if they had to be out in the weather as wild dogs would have. She's worried us greatly with just how anxious she becomes. Raising the heart rate so much and pumping adrenaline for an extended time can't be good.
Also, she's a working dog on both sides of her family tree. I wouldn't think terror of thunder would be a helpful trait for working dogs and am surprised it wasn't intentionally bred out.
The only med the vet ever offered was horrifying--it resulted in her lying still but if you got close to her it was still obvious her heart rate was up and my impression when I cuddled her was that she was still scared. I later read that this med simply limits the expression of terror, not the terror itself. So clearly designed to make the owners feel better, but not the dog. Sometimes I can't believe what assholes people can be. Whoever thought that was a good idea should be shot.
posted by mysterious_stranger at 12:56 AM on November 16, 2015
She shakes, comes to us for reassurance, and preferably also hides under something at the same time (so if we're sitting at the kitchen or dining room table when a storm is brewing, that's ideal because she can hide under the table but touching our feet).
I know it's not a feeling she's picking up from us, because she's been this way with a variety of people, including the family she originally lived with, me, my ex, and my mom. She also is already upset if a human comes home when a storm has already started.
I too am surprised it hasn't evolved out. I do think that dogs who are that terrified may well be shortening their lives, especially if they had to be out in the weather as wild dogs would have. She's worried us greatly with just how anxious she becomes. Raising the heart rate so much and pumping adrenaline for an extended time can't be good.
Also, she's a working dog on both sides of her family tree. I wouldn't think terror of thunder would be a helpful trait for working dogs and am surprised it wasn't intentionally bred out.
The only med the vet ever offered was horrifying--it resulted in her lying still but if you got close to her it was still obvious her heart rate was up and my impression when I cuddled her was that she was still scared. I later read that this med simply limits the expression of terror, not the terror itself. So clearly designed to make the owners feel better, but not the dog. Sometimes I can't believe what assholes people can be. Whoever thought that was a good idea should be shot.
posted by mysterious_stranger at 12:56 AM on November 16, 2015
Tufts University did a survey on thunder phobia in dogs, they found herding breeds tended to be more thunder phobic than other breeds, with their explanation being that being bred for their reactivity and suppressed prey drive lead to thunder phobia as a byproduct of the desired herding traits. The paper discusses a lot more about the phobia as well. Link to the study here.
posted by Orca at 11:11 AM on November 16, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Orca at 11:11 AM on November 16, 2015 [2 favorites]
As a data point, I've observed wolves during a thunderstorm and did not see them reacting in any way to the actual thunder. I think that when you live every moment of your life in the wild, all day and all night for years, and thunder never bites you in the neck, it doesn't rank high enough to worry over.
posted by scrubjay at 9:16 PM on December 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by scrubjay at 9:16 PM on December 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
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If that's the case, then I would think wolves would be less affected because A) They probably have different kinds of fur than a lot of dogs, likely with more grease that shields them from static. B) They get at least a little wet when it rains and you don't feel static when you're wet (at least I don't).
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 9:50 PM on November 14, 2015