Why do users lie and exaggerate about computer issues?
November 12, 2015 8:24 AM Subscribe
PsychologyFilter: When users talk to technical support personnel about computer issues, why do they so often exaggerate (and often just outright lie) about things? It's extremely common, and it seems to be unique to computers.
If you've ever worked in a technical role, you know what I'm talking about. "I can't load one particular website" becomes "the Internet is down". "Two posts (out of a hundred) are missing from our site" becomes "all of the posts are gone". "One specific feature of the application is behaving strangely" becomes "the application won't do anything".
You ask them whether they've done X. They swear that they haven't. Then, upon investigating, you find clear evidence that they did do X—but they still steadfastly deny it. Or, you ask them to try solution Y. They claim that they tried it, but it didn't work. Then you discover out that they never actually did Y.
It happens constantly. Why do people do this? I'm genuinely curious about the psychology behind it. It almost always comes from the less-technically-savvy users.
When you approach a specialist for help with a problem, they need to know the bare facts of the situation before they can make an accurate diagnosis and recommendation. Hyperbole doesn't help—in fact, it just makes it harder to get to the bottom of the issue and fix the problem.
But this principle isn't specific to computers or "technical" fields. When you call the mechanic, you don't tell them that your car won't start when, in reality, it's just idling funny. When you go to the doctor with a queasy stomach, you don't tell them that you've been vomiting blood. If you want the clerk at the garden store to give advice about the worms on your tomatoes, you don't tell them that your entire neighborhood has been stripped of vegetation by a plague of locusts. The same applies to getting advice on a problem with your roasts from a chef, getting athletic shoe recommendations at a shoe store, etc.
And if the doctor prescribes a medication, or the clerk recommends a particular spray, you don't just ignore their advice and then claim (i.e., lie) that you followed it.
So why do people do this when it comes to computers?
I guess that any answer to this question will necessarily be speculation—but perhaps you've had some sort of insight into it. A couple of guesses:
If you've ever worked in a technical role, you know what I'm talking about. "I can't load one particular website" becomes "the Internet is down". "Two posts (out of a hundred) are missing from our site" becomes "all of the posts are gone". "One specific feature of the application is behaving strangely" becomes "the application won't do anything".
You ask them whether they've done X. They swear that they haven't. Then, upon investigating, you find clear evidence that they did do X—but they still steadfastly deny it. Or, you ask them to try solution Y. They claim that they tried it, but it didn't work. Then you discover out that they never actually did Y.
It happens constantly. Why do people do this? I'm genuinely curious about the psychology behind it. It almost always comes from the less-technically-savvy users.
When you approach a specialist for help with a problem, they need to know the bare facts of the situation before they can make an accurate diagnosis and recommendation. Hyperbole doesn't help—in fact, it just makes it harder to get to the bottom of the issue and fix the problem.
But this principle isn't specific to computers or "technical" fields. When you call the mechanic, you don't tell them that your car won't start when, in reality, it's just idling funny. When you go to the doctor with a queasy stomach, you don't tell them that you've been vomiting blood. If you want the clerk at the garden store to give advice about the worms on your tomatoes, you don't tell them that your entire neighborhood has been stripped of vegetation by a plague of locusts. The same applies to getting advice on a problem with your roasts from a chef, getting athletic shoe recommendations at a shoe store, etc.
And if the doctor prescribes a medication, or the clerk recommends a particular spray, you don't just ignore their advice and then claim (i.e., lie) that you followed it.
So why do people do this when it comes to computers?
I guess that any answer to this question will necessarily be speculation—but perhaps you've had some sort of insight into it. A couple of guesses:
- Maybe people think that exaggerating the severity of the problem will compel support folks to treat their issue with more urgency?
- Maybe I'm wrong, and people really do lie and exaggerate when talking to specialists in other fields (such as doctors and mechanics)? (Still, I'd be curious to know what motivates people to do this.)
Best answer: Oh, I think everyone does this with experts they are going to for help. I think if you spoke to doctors (heck, there's a whole show about it, it's called House), mechanics, plumbers etc... you'll find they all have clients who catastrophise, lie, and otherwise try to cover up their own mistakes or ignorance. And they don't know enough about the field to know that the expert they're speaking with will know they are lying.
My users are much more prone to the exaggeration and catastrophising than the lying, but they're already a population that have to be treated with kid gloves and I don't even try to poke them enough that they might be prompted to lie. I don't even want to go there, it will not end well for me.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:30 AM on November 12, 2015 [16 favorites]
My users are much more prone to the exaggeration and catastrophising than the lying, but they're already a population that have to be treated with kid gloves and I don't even try to poke them enough that they might be prompted to lie. I don't even want to go there, it will not end well for me.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:30 AM on November 12, 2015 [16 favorites]
Sometimes, I think it's confusion - people think they did Y, for instance, but they did it wrong, or didn't realize what Y actually was.
I think there's also the culture of IT dudes on the phone who drawl condescendingly "did you try restarting it?" when you've already described the problem, told them you restarted twice, etc etc. That is, it's a mutual problem - the expectation that IT dudes are going to condescend and ignore what you actually say makes it easier either to lie or to panic and lie-by-accident.
posted by Frowner at 8:31 AM on November 12, 2015 [76 favorites]
I think there's also the culture of IT dudes on the phone who drawl condescendingly "did you try restarting it?" when you've already described the problem, told them you restarted twice, etc etc. That is, it's a mutual problem - the expectation that IT dudes are going to condescend and ignore what you actually say makes it easier either to lie or to panic and lie-by-accident.
posted by Frowner at 8:31 AM on November 12, 2015 [76 favorites]
Speaking from experience I can tell you that for some people a computer may as well be the space shuttle when it comes to operating it and or diagnosing issues. When it doesn't do the one thing they want it to do, even though other functions are still working, then the whole thing is broken to them.
I think part of it is fear, part of it is expecting to get quicker/better/more personalized support if their issue is extreme or unusual. Some people just feel better when the IT person shows up in person to "fix" (ie reboot) their computer.
To these sort of people a momentary network hiccup equals "nothing is working!!!! The whole system is downnnn!!!"
posted by eatcake at 8:32 AM on November 12, 2015 [7 favorites]
I think part of it is fear, part of it is expecting to get quicker/better/more personalized support if their issue is extreme or unusual. Some people just feel better when the IT person shows up in person to "fix" (ie reboot) their computer.
To these sort of people a momentary network hiccup equals "nothing is working!!!! The whole system is downnnn!!!"
posted by eatcake at 8:32 AM on November 12, 2015 [7 favorites]
Best answer: Malingering and factitious disorder are a couple of terms used in medicine (referring to two different things in modern usage, as I understand it.)
posted by XMLicious at 8:35 AM on November 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by XMLicious at 8:35 AM on November 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I don't think it's unique to IT. My wife is a veterinarian and she describes similar issues that people have with the operation of their dogs and cats.
posted by dweingart at 8:39 AM on November 12, 2015 [8 favorites]
posted by dweingart at 8:39 AM on November 12, 2015 [8 favorites]
Best answer: Many people aren't good at accepting blame and taking responsibility, so they evade it by lying.
posted by fivesavagepalms at 8:40 AM on November 12, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by fivesavagepalms at 8:40 AM on November 12, 2015 [4 favorites]
You need to watch for your own confirmation bias here too. Of course an IT tech support person is going to have a solid work day of interactions of this type -- the 99% of people who sorted through their own issue and figured out the problem on their own through their own troubleshooting and/or reading the documentation didn't have to contact the IT tech support person.
See also a police officer's perception of the general public. The people who don't need help don't call for help.
posted by frontmn23 at 8:40 AM on November 12, 2015 [44 favorites]
See also a police officer's perception of the general public. The people who don't need help don't call for help.
posted by frontmn23 at 8:40 AM on November 12, 2015 [44 favorites]
To an unsophisticated user, the difference between "the site I need won't load" and "the internet is down" and "these two posts are gone" vs. "all the posts are gone" is a nuance that may as well not exist. That's not necessarily lying nor is it intentional representation; it's a description of behavior created by someone who probably doesn't have the language and skills to accurately recognize what's going on, much less describe the problem.
Knowing the right information to give to an IT expert to assist in debugging is not an intuitive skill if you don't have experience in it yourself. That's why you're the expert and why you're necessary at all. As Don Draper would say, that's what the money is for.
posted by Andrhia at 8:42 AM on November 12, 2015 [61 favorites]
Knowing the right information to give to an IT expert to assist in debugging is not an intuitive skill if you don't have experience in it yourself. That's why you're the expert and why you're necessary at all. As Don Draper would say, that's what the money is for.
posted by Andrhia at 8:42 AM on November 12, 2015 [61 favorites]
I agree with soren_lorenson - I think that actually people do this. Consider anti-biotics - not only will the doctors and pharmacists be quite clear about dosing, and taking all of the pills unless told not to by the doctor because of adverse reactions, but who hasn't come across a friend/relative who has a stash of old anti-biotics that they stopped taking as soon as they felt a bit better, and now have that store "just in case."
I think that as you've had users horribly report things, and lie about doing things that you'll be more aware about specifically not doing that when you're facing an expert. As well, with computers, (sometimes) you can actively show that they did or did not do a course of action, so there's a brilliant point for confirmation bias vs. all the other times that there's a suspicion that a client isn't following their therapy regime.
Heck, how many people do you think tell their dental hygenist "oh, I usually floss." when they mean "I own floss. The same floss for ten years now. But I own some and fully intend to start regularly using it." ?
posted by nobeagle at 8:42 AM on November 12, 2015 [4 favorites]
I think that as you've had users horribly report things, and lie about doing things that you'll be more aware about specifically not doing that when you're facing an expert. As well, with computers, (sometimes) you can actively show that they did or did not do a course of action, so there's a brilliant point for confirmation bias vs. all the other times that there's a suspicion that a client isn't following their therapy regime.
Heck, how many people do you think tell their dental hygenist "oh, I usually floss." when they mean "I own floss. The same floss for ten years now. But I own some and fully intend to start regularly using it." ?
posted by nobeagle at 8:42 AM on November 12, 2015 [4 favorites]
Technology confuses and frightens a lot of people, makes them feel dumb. People do silly things when they are confused and frightened and afraid that they are dumb.
I think it's also that they've picked up various bits of jargon and don't actually know what it means. So when an elderly consultant would come in to the office and say "my email was hacked" I knew right away that what she meant was that something was happening with her email that she didn't understand, and which likely had nothing to do with someone else accessing her inbox. (she was trying to get to an aol inbox from the gmail login page.)
The media contributes to this as well, calling every single incident of technology-related malfeasance a "hacking" even if it's something as stupid as "business exec leaves printed out private email right out where anyone can see it and someone sees it and leaks the information".
posted by poffin boffin at 8:42 AM on November 12, 2015 [13 favorites]
I think it's also that they've picked up various bits of jargon and don't actually know what it means. So when an elderly consultant would come in to the office and say "my email was hacked" I knew right away that what she meant was that something was happening with her email that she didn't understand, and which likely had nothing to do with someone else accessing her inbox. (she was trying to get to an aol inbox from the gmail login page.)
The media contributes to this as well, calling every single incident of technology-related malfeasance a "hacking" even if it's something as stupid as "business exec leaves printed out private email right out where anyone can see it and someone sees it and leaks the information".
posted by poffin boffin at 8:42 AM on November 12, 2015 [13 favorites]
Ask a doctor, it's not unique to IT.
It's largely a perspective problem. To many of my users, not being able to enter a purchase order is "the system is down". And because they "don't understand computers" they don't "read the pop-up box telling them what's wrong". The ticket says the system is down. What system? The system! All that stuff there that does stuff, the system.
That's pretty much the same way I went to the doctor after a car accident saying my hip hurts when what I had was sciatica. I didn't know much about how the system works, all I can tell you is that I have a pain right here.
posted by Lyn Never at 8:44 AM on November 12, 2015 [4 favorites]
It's largely a perspective problem. To many of my users, not being able to enter a purchase order is "the system is down". And because they "don't understand computers" they don't "read the pop-up box telling them what's wrong". The ticket says the system is down. What system? The system! All that stuff there that does stuff, the system.
That's pretty much the same way I went to the doctor after a car accident saying my hip hurts when what I had was sciatica. I didn't know much about how the system works, all I can tell you is that I have a pain right here.
posted by Lyn Never at 8:44 AM on November 12, 2015 [4 favorites]
I think there's also the cultural position of computers - not knowing how technology works is to be a Dumb Old; being able to do technology things is to be smart, with-it, etc. This is something that both IT people and computer users feel, as we can see by the assumption in many threads of this nature that "users" are ipso facto dumb liars.
IT people think you're dumb if you can't do stuff or hesitate for even a moment in following directions. Users think they're dumb if they can't do stuff or hesitate in following directions. The motive to lie - right there, because no one likes to think they're dumb.
Also, for many people work computers "might as well be the space shuttle" because they tend to be different from and configured differently from home computers. I can't even update Adobe products on my work computer without calling in to request administrative rights. My work computer is a Dell. I've never owned a Dell and all my OSes at home have either been Mac ones or ubuntu. I can't poke around on this computer because it's locked down pretty tight and also I am at work and am not getting paid to do so. I don't get training on how this computer works.
I'm not a computer person but I know how to do basic stuff with my computer, or at least how to figure out what's likely to be wrong. My work computer? A giant black hole. I've picked up a bit from when IT has remoted it to fix stuff, but I can't actually do those things because I don't have admin rights.
posted by Frowner at 8:45 AM on November 12, 2015 [5 favorites]
IT people think you're dumb if you can't do stuff or hesitate for even a moment in following directions. Users think they're dumb if they can't do stuff or hesitate in following directions. The motive to lie - right there, because no one likes to think they're dumb.
Also, for many people work computers "might as well be the space shuttle" because they tend to be different from and configured differently from home computers. I can't even update Adobe products on my work computer without calling in to request administrative rights. My work computer is a Dell. I've never owned a Dell and all my OSes at home have either been Mac ones or ubuntu. I can't poke around on this computer because it's locked down pretty tight and also I am at work and am not getting paid to do so. I don't get training on how this computer works.
I'm not a computer person but I know how to do basic stuff with my computer, or at least how to figure out what's likely to be wrong. My work computer? A giant black hole. I've picked up a bit from when IT has remoted it to fix stuff, but I can't actually do those things because I don't have admin rights.
posted by Frowner at 8:45 AM on November 12, 2015 [5 favorites]
I think there are a couple of semi-related issues that lead to the behaviors you observe.
The main one is that the average keyboard jockey doesn't know shit about anything but the top layer of whatever small group of programs they use and yet they spend their entire day operating this machine and so feel like they should/must have a good handle on it. So, when a site they use all the time won't load they don't even check if Google still works and THE WHOLE INTERNET IS GONE. Or, they've been monkeying with settings that happen to be exactly what you're asking about when you ask if they've done X, but they actually have no idea what they've done (and to invert that, you tell them they need to do Y, but they have no idea what that is). And on top of that, they hold an identity in which they are good at their jobs and the job is on the computer so they're good at computering.
Another thing that I know happens because it's happened to me more than once talking to tech support. I have done X because it's the standard fix and it didn't work, but of course when I do it again because you told me to it works.
And finally, it certainly does happen in other fields. Patients routinely lie to doctors and disregard their orders. Another good example of this being rampant is recipes. Chris Kimball of America's Test Kitchen complains about this all the time. People talk to him saying, "this recipe didn't work at all!" and then after a few questions he find they simply didn't follow the procedure laid out in the recipe.
posted by cmoj at 8:47 AM on November 12, 2015 [6 favorites]
The main one is that the average keyboard jockey doesn't know shit about anything but the top layer of whatever small group of programs they use and yet they spend their entire day operating this machine and so feel like they should/must have a good handle on it. So, when a site they use all the time won't load they don't even check if Google still works and THE WHOLE INTERNET IS GONE. Or, they've been monkeying with settings that happen to be exactly what you're asking about when you ask if they've done X, but they actually have no idea what they've done (and to invert that, you tell them they need to do Y, but they have no idea what that is). And on top of that, they hold an identity in which they are good at their jobs and the job is on the computer so they're good at computering.
Another thing that I know happens because it's happened to me more than once talking to tech support. I have done X because it's the standard fix and it didn't work, but of course when I do it again because you told me to it works.
And finally, it certainly does happen in other fields. Patients routinely lie to doctors and disregard their orders. Another good example of this being rampant is recipes. Chris Kimball of America's Test Kitchen complains about this all the time. People talk to him saying, "this recipe didn't work at all!" and then after a few questions he find they simply didn't follow the procedure laid out in the recipe.
posted by cmoj at 8:47 AM on November 12, 2015 [6 favorites]
Three things:
People honestly forget all the things they've tried to fix a problem. Or they did do the steps but separated in time (like maybe they deleted a file in the morning and emptied the recycle bin in the afternoon thereby permanently deleting a file) (Or they uninstalled MFC 3 weeks ago and are just now for the first time using the program that requires it).
Users are embarrassed to be calling tech support. I think this is because Microsoft and Apple and others have been expounding on how easy the systems are to use for so long that they feel stupid when they have a problem. No one feels embarrassed to call a mechanic when their engine won't start but most people feel foolish when their computer won't start. Also a lot of support people make users feel dumb with poor computer side manner.
Finally tech support people use jargon that users don't understand or understand differently. So the user ends up answering a different question than the support person thinks they are asking. And they will reasonably call support before fully fleshing out the problem (your two sites down -> whole internet not working example).
Good support works around thing like this by watching their language and approach; for example not asking the users whether their machine is unplugged but instead having them unplug and plug in the machine "'cause sometimes the plug gets loose and needs to get reset". This way if the plug is unplugged the user notices it one their own and can save face by plugging it in in and reporting the problem solved. There are thousands of approach tricks like this that elevate people from script kiddie to support professional.
posted by Mitheral at 8:49 AM on November 12, 2015 [26 favorites]
People honestly forget all the things they've tried to fix a problem. Or they did do the steps but separated in time (like maybe they deleted a file in the morning and emptied the recycle bin in the afternoon thereby permanently deleting a file) (Or they uninstalled MFC 3 weeks ago and are just now for the first time using the program that requires it).
Users are embarrassed to be calling tech support. I think this is because Microsoft and Apple and others have been expounding on how easy the systems are to use for so long that they feel stupid when they have a problem. No one feels embarrassed to call a mechanic when their engine won't start but most people feel foolish when their computer won't start. Also a lot of support people make users feel dumb with poor computer side manner.
Finally tech support people use jargon that users don't understand or understand differently. So the user ends up answering a different question than the support person thinks they are asking. And they will reasonably call support before fully fleshing out the problem (your two sites down -> whole internet not working example).
Good support works around thing like this by watching their language and approach; for example not asking the users whether their machine is unplugged but instead having them unplug and plug in the machine "'cause sometimes the plug gets loose and needs to get reset". This way if the plug is unplugged the user notices it one their own and can save face by plugging it in in and reporting the problem solved. There are thousands of approach tricks like this that elevate people from script kiddie to support professional.
posted by Mitheral at 8:49 AM on November 12, 2015 [26 favorites]
I've worked in tech support person and have seen this. I've also been a guy bringing an iMac to the Apple Store.
In the latter case, I made sure not to exaggerate anything, but I was still very wary of getting dismissed. So, I was very hardline with the "no, I already tried that" and "no, it is definitely not that because…" It sucked to have to be that way, but it increased my chances of getting my iMac display replaced because I know it's in their best interest to not have to replace an iMac display.
If I was less aware of the technical details involved in my problem, then what would I do? I'd want to make sure I got my foot in the door, so maybe exaggerating would seem like a viable option. The other would to just be straight-up obstinate, which sounds more tiring.
posted by ignignokt at 8:50 AM on November 12, 2015 [3 favorites]
In the latter case, I made sure not to exaggerate anything, but I was still very wary of getting dismissed. So, I was very hardline with the "no, I already tried that" and "no, it is definitely not that because…" It sucked to have to be that way, but it increased my chances of getting my iMac display replaced because I know it's in their best interest to not have to replace an iMac display.
If I was less aware of the technical details involved in my problem, then what would I do? I'd want to make sure I got my foot in the door, so maybe exaggerating would seem like a viable option. The other would to just be straight-up obstinate, which sounds more tiring.
posted by ignignokt at 8:50 AM on November 12, 2015 [3 favorites]
Actually, when I have computer problems, and I say "two posts are missing" (from your example), I don't get any help. BUT, when I say something catostrophic has happened, I do get help.
Therefore, even if I know it's not catostrophic, but I need the help, I may exaggerate. Sure, I may piss off the IT guy, and it might cause problems in the future when it is catostrophic, but I'd rather get my help now, than try and puzzle through stuff that I don't fully understand when that's not my job.
posted by China Grover at 8:50 AM on November 12, 2015 [9 favorites]
Therefore, even if I know it's not catostrophic, but I need the help, I may exaggerate. Sure, I may piss off the IT guy, and it might cause problems in the future when it is catostrophic, but I'd rather get my help now, than try and puzzle through stuff that I don't fully understand when that's not my job.
posted by China Grover at 8:50 AM on November 12, 2015 [9 favorites]
Computers also have the problem that it is easy to accidentally do something, and then have no idea how to undo it, and no way to even see that you did that. So when someone insists that you did that thing, and that was the cause of your problem, is it really lying to insist that you didn't do it?
posted by smackfu at 8:56 AM on November 12, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by smackfu at 8:56 AM on November 12, 2015 [4 favorites]
If it is true that users are "lying," then I think the better question is: why do computer "support" people never believe users when users say there is a problem? The default always seems to be "you're definitely an idiot and don't know how to computer."
It's a Kafkaesque game theory scenario.
posted by Nevin at 8:57 AM on November 12, 2015 [6 favorites]
It's a Kafkaesque game theory scenario.
posted by Nevin at 8:57 AM on November 12, 2015 [6 favorites]
With a fair percentage of the people I deal with, it's about passing the blame. Assistant is tasked by their boss with sending out a notification from our web application to a number of people. Assistant sends the wrong notification, or sends it to the wrong people. Assistant calls us to say that the application is broken and is sending the wrong notification emails, and his/her boss is expecting this to be fixed immediately.
This makes the assistant look marginally less incompetent to their boss. It also means that I (assuming the problem gets escalated to me) have to pretend to investigate the issue for some amount of time, and then politely offer to go through the process with Assistant to make sure it all works this time. Which of course it does.
posted by pipeski at 8:59 AM on November 12, 2015
This makes the assistant look marginally less incompetent to their boss. It also means that I (assuming the problem gets escalated to me) have to pretend to investigate the issue for some amount of time, and then politely offer to go through the process with Assistant to make sure it all works this time. Which of course it does.
posted by pipeski at 8:59 AM on November 12, 2015
They don't have the expertise you do, so their phrasing reflects their problem as they see it (to them, the internet is broken because they can't use it the way they need to), not your expert assessment (site won't load).
Sort of like you're doing here-- you aren't a behavioral expert so you make broad extrapolations (users generally exaggerate and lie and this is unique to your field) based on how certain behaviors affect you.
posted by kapers at 9:03 AM on November 12, 2015 [14 favorites]
Sort of like you're doing here-- you aren't a behavioral expert so you make broad extrapolations (users generally exaggerate and lie and this is unique to your field) based on how certain behaviors affect you.
posted by kapers at 9:03 AM on November 12, 2015 [14 favorites]
What I do a lot with both IT support staff and doctors is I often have a narrative in my own head about what I think is wrong, and I present this narrative as fact instead of presenting just a list of observable behaviors. I'm also a person who catastrophizes in life in general, so I'm prone to jump to the more extreme conclusions. I'm not lying -- I'm interpreting and trying to be helpful at the same time.
So, say I'm having trouble running a program on my computer that uses Java. And I've just installed and reinstalled Java a few times, and it's not working to open something I need to use. So I'll create links in my mind to form a narrative about what I think is causing a problem (based, of course, on like zero technical knowledge), call the IT person, and say something like "This program is not working for me, and it's because I'm not using the right version of Java, so I need you to figure out which is the right version to install." And then we go through like a ton of back and forth and it turns out that Java is not the problem, it's something else entirely.
One reason I do this is because I truly am trying to be helpful and offer a ready-made solution. Like, "Hi, I need your help, but I feel bad using your time and so here is a little gift I made you with all the information you need to solve this quickly." Part of this, too, is that I want them to think I'm smart and to like me. Basic people-pleasing.
So, don't think of it as lying or anything deliberately malicious. In my case, at least, it's a combination of the storytelling impulse and fucked-up, but fairly commonplace, personal psychology.
posted by megancita at 9:06 AM on November 12, 2015 [4 favorites]
So, say I'm having trouble running a program on my computer that uses Java. And I've just installed and reinstalled Java a few times, and it's not working to open something I need to use. So I'll create links in my mind to form a narrative about what I think is causing a problem (based, of course, on like zero technical knowledge), call the IT person, and say something like "This program is not working for me, and it's because I'm not using the right version of Java, so I need you to figure out which is the right version to install." And then we go through like a ton of back and forth and it turns out that Java is not the problem, it's something else entirely.
One reason I do this is because I truly am trying to be helpful and offer a ready-made solution. Like, "Hi, I need your help, but I feel bad using your time and so here is a little gift I made you with all the information you need to solve this quickly." Part of this, too, is that I want them to think I'm smart and to like me. Basic people-pleasing.
So, don't think of it as lying or anything deliberately malicious. In my case, at least, it's a combination of the storytelling impulse and fucked-up, but fairly commonplace, personal psychology.
posted by megancita at 9:06 AM on November 12, 2015 [4 favorites]
People don't want to admit that a pile of metal and plastic got the better of them.
posted by joan_holloway at 9:06 AM on November 12, 2015
posted by joan_holloway at 9:06 AM on November 12, 2015
This is a common problem librarians face when working the reference desk. Generally, the first question posed is very far away from what the patron is actually looking for. It's a double whammy of not understanding how libraries work and being embarrassed to admit they don't understand a topic. I'm sure this is very similar to IT transactions.
posted by galvanized unicorn at 9:10 AM on November 12, 2015 [9 favorites]
posted by galvanized unicorn at 9:10 AM on November 12, 2015 [9 favorites]
Particular fun when you roll in any sort of bias (ageism, sexism, etc). Users are definitely not the only trouble here.
Personally I present all of the information I have about what went wrong, but I am not an expert and may not know what is relevant. I'm also likely to get irritable quickly because I am so bloody sick of various biased IT folk assuming I'm an idiot when I walk in the door. And I get extra irritable when the piece of info the IT person decides they need after plenty of iterations-- turns out to be one I sent them in the very first email/support ticket, which they didn't read because they assumed I was too stupid to have anything useful to say.
See also physicians who assume women are exaggerating their pain, or who decide that all of an overweight person's health problems are caused solely by their weight.
(If a system, be it the computer itself or the way your IT ticket structure is set up, results in many users making the same mistake-- the problem is not the users, it's the system.)
posted by nat at 9:12 AM on November 12, 2015 [8 favorites]
Personally I present all of the information I have about what went wrong, but I am not an expert and may not know what is relevant. I'm also likely to get irritable quickly because I am so bloody sick of various biased IT folk assuming I'm an idiot when I walk in the door. And I get extra irritable when the piece of info the IT person decides they need after plenty of iterations-- turns out to be one I sent them in the very first email/support ticket, which they didn't read because they assumed I was too stupid to have anything useful to say.
See also physicians who assume women are exaggerating their pain, or who decide that all of an overweight person's health problems are caused solely by their weight.
(If a system, be it the computer itself or the way your IT ticket structure is set up, results in many users making the same mistake-- the problem is not the users, it's the system.)
posted by nat at 9:12 AM on November 12, 2015 [8 favorites]
I'm 10 years into a jack-of-all-trades IT position. Your website won't load? Me. You need status pulled out the database that runs our case management software? Me. You need someone to figure out the best way to use technology to accomplish a given task? Me. So I'm help desk, database guy, business analyst, etc. all in one. Plus this morning I was called to unjam a filing cabinet, so sometimes if it doesn't use electricity, it's still my problem.
Because of this, people tend to exaggerate so they can seem more important. "The internet is down!" sounds way more important than "I can't connect to this vendor's website". "The printer is dead again" is something I hear all the time, never "the printer needs more paper to continue printing". "This process doesn't work for me, look what happened" is what I'll be told, never "I'm sorry, I tried to follow the instructions our company was sent and I got stuck, can you give me a hand?".
Why?
If the problem is a disaster, I should drop what I'm doing and help them.
If the problem can be blamed on a device that can't blame back, blame the device so it can't be you're fault.
If the problem is following directions, just insist that they're too confusing and the IT person should be walking around to 150 workstations and doing it by hand.
I try to address this by explaining to people a few key things. First, there's 150 of them and one of me. If I can't properly triage, then important problems get ignored because someone cried wolf.
Second, that often the solution to the problem is right in front of them (Load Tray 2 Plain Letter means exactly what it says). In the most polite way possible, I tell people to read whatever is in front of them and will read it aloud with them in a "let's figure this out together" sort of way. I don't do it to make them feel stupid for not reading, I do it to encourage people to know how to use technology. It's not just a fad, this computer thing is here to stay!
And even if they cannot understand whatever message things say, it's important to me to know what it says. If anyone comes to me and says "I have an error" but then tells me they closed it without noting it, I tell them "sounds like you're doing OK then, let me know if it happens again and either leave the error on the screen or write it down for me". It took maybe 9 months, but no one comes to me with an error they didn't bother to write down any more.
Third, I explain to people that when a giant company (Fortune 50) has decided to upgraded software XYZ and that after the upgrade, users need to follow 5 steps, that yes, it is expected that they should follow those 5 steps. Not ask the IT person (or whomever else is around) to follow those 5 steps for them. This isn't a case of "be IT person for the day", it's a case of "using computers and being able to follow directions that involve a computer is a job requirement".
At the end of the day, 90% of my troubleshooting time is because of 10% of the people. Treat those people as the proper resource drain that they are to the organization.
posted by Brian Puccio at 9:20 AM on November 12, 2015 [3 favorites]
Because of this, people tend to exaggerate so they can seem more important. "The internet is down!" sounds way more important than "I can't connect to this vendor's website". "The printer is dead again" is something I hear all the time, never "the printer needs more paper to continue printing". "This process doesn't work for me, look what happened" is what I'll be told, never "I'm sorry, I tried to follow the instructions our company was sent and I got stuck, can you give me a hand?".
Why?
If the problem is a disaster, I should drop what I'm doing and help them.
If the problem can be blamed on a device that can't blame back, blame the device so it can't be you're fault.
If the problem is following directions, just insist that they're too confusing and the IT person should be walking around to 150 workstations and doing it by hand.
I try to address this by explaining to people a few key things. First, there's 150 of them and one of me. If I can't properly triage, then important problems get ignored because someone cried wolf.
Second, that often the solution to the problem is right in front of them (Load Tray 2 Plain Letter means exactly what it says). In the most polite way possible, I tell people to read whatever is in front of them and will read it aloud with them in a "let's figure this out together" sort of way. I don't do it to make them feel stupid for not reading, I do it to encourage people to know how to use technology. It's not just a fad, this computer thing is here to stay!
And even if they cannot understand whatever message things say, it's important to me to know what it says. If anyone comes to me and says "I have an error" but then tells me they closed it without noting it, I tell them "sounds like you're doing OK then, let me know if it happens again and either leave the error on the screen or write it down for me". It took maybe 9 months, but no one comes to me with an error they didn't bother to write down any more.
Third, I explain to people that when a giant company (Fortune 50) has decided to upgraded software XYZ and that after the upgrade, users need to follow 5 steps, that yes, it is expected that they should follow those 5 steps. Not ask the IT person (or whomever else is around) to follow those 5 steps for them. This isn't a case of "be IT person for the day", it's a case of "using computers and being able to follow directions that involve a computer is a job requirement".
bondcliff:This isn't always the case. I don't expect people to understand the SELECT query to get the stats they need for their 6 month project their department has been doing. I do expect them to understand that if they don't enter the information consistently into our case management I can't pull it out consistently. I do expect them to follow directions that the thousands of other people follow without issue (and when they can't, not to blame the person who wrote them when most everyone else seemed to manage just fine). I do expect them not to lie.
Most IT people only care about how smart and knowledgeable they are. They don't care that it's not a user's job to understand this stuff they way IT people do.
At the end of the day, 90% of my troubleshooting time is because of 10% of the people. Treat those people as the proper resource drain that they are to the organization.
posted by Brian Puccio at 9:20 AM on November 12, 2015 [3 favorites]
I think this often happens when people seek an expert's help. I'm a logistics expert (boring), one of my best friends is a Neuroscientist (cool) but we both get people who come to us with very similar huge exaggerations of issues, because as other have noted, they are afraid they won't get help.
A much smaller portion of the time people are lying because they did something stupid and are trying to hide it. But 9 out of 10 it's people needing help and feeling like their real issue isn't important enough. I think we as specialists, bear some responsibility for engendering a atmosphere of importance around what we do that requires a "threshold of severity" for that help to be diligently and seriously given.
posted by French Fry at 9:23 AM on November 12, 2015 [2 favorites]
A much smaller portion of the time people are lying because they did something stupid and are trying to hide it. But 9 out of 10 it's people needing help and feeling like their real issue isn't important enough. I think we as specialists, bear some responsibility for engendering a atmosphere of importance around what we do that requires a "threshold of severity" for that help to be diligently and seriously given.
posted by French Fry at 9:23 AM on November 12, 2015 [2 favorites]
Funnily enough, I just got a "this extremely common workflow is entirely broken!!!" email. I am 99.9% sure that the user is actually failing to click the Submit button and that's why their entry isn't registering, but the application I support is also totally dumb and the fact that there's a Submit button at all is non-intuitive. My reply was to ask the user to please give me a call so he can talk me through what he's doing and what is and is not happening on his end. I'm fairly sure that there will be a point where I say, "And now you should click Submit." and he'll say, "Oh! Huh." But I don't want to put the cart before the horse because stranger things have happened than there being a big dumb bug in this application. And if he didn't notice the Submit button? Well, I didn't design this dumb UI, I'm not going to take that personally.
My role in the institutional hierarchy here is very very low on the totem pole. I can't get angry or snippy at users because the users are often tenured professors and they will try to end me if they don't like my attitude. It has trained me to be able to talk people off cliffs without implying that the error indeed lies between keyboard and chair.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:26 AM on November 12, 2015
My role in the institutional hierarchy here is very very low on the totem pole. I can't get angry or snippy at users because the users are often tenured professors and they will try to end me if they don't like my attitude. It has trained me to be able to talk people off cliffs without implying that the error indeed lies between keyboard and chair.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:26 AM on November 12, 2015
I remember trying to get my computer fixed in Germany... and although my German was reasonably good, I simply didn't have the vocabulary to say "A portion of the screen has blacked out for no apparent reason; otherwise, the computer works normally." I told them "Das Bildschirm ist kaputt!" Same when the hard drive emitted horrific grinding noises and the computer wouldn't boot up after a restart, instead displaying a plain grey screen. "Die Festplatte ist kaputt!" I'd bet the average user doesn't have the vocabulary to describe computer problems in the way the average IT guy would find most useful, and it's doubly hard if they're trying to do it in another language.
And people do hide things from their doctors, or from other people who they're trying to get help from. I have genuinely forgotten to tell medical professionals that I'm taking a particular medication. Many people don't take prescribed medication - or don't take it correctly for whatever reason (not understanding the instructions, not being able to afford the medication, deciding they'd rather live with a condition than the side-effects of a medication etc.). They may not realise that certain information is pertinent, or they're trying to save face because they know they've made a mistake but don't want to look really stupid. I know less about cars than I know about computers, so I'd probably describe a car problem as being worse than it really is.
posted by Rissa at 9:27 AM on November 12, 2015 [2 favorites]
And people do hide things from their doctors, or from other people who they're trying to get help from. I have genuinely forgotten to tell medical professionals that I'm taking a particular medication. Many people don't take prescribed medication - or don't take it correctly for whatever reason (not understanding the instructions, not being able to afford the medication, deciding they'd rather live with a condition than the side-effects of a medication etc.). They may not realise that certain information is pertinent, or they're trying to save face because they know they've made a mistake but don't want to look really stupid. I know less about cars than I know about computers, so I'd probably describe a car problem as being worse than it really is.
posted by Rissa at 9:27 AM on November 12, 2015 [2 favorites]
Another librarian example: I cannot TELL you how many times someone has told me "It's not on the shelf! I checked!" when in fact it was on the shelf. They usually had been out into the stacks but they weren't looking in quite the right place and they gave up quickly because it was unfamiliar.
Oh and I was a librarian at a pharmacy school - people absolutley do lie to their doctor and pharmacist about whether they have been taking their medications, and they absolutely do not follow instructions, and they exaggerate and/or minimize their symptoms. It's a huge thing.
This is just normal human behavior, coupled with the lack of vocabulary/awareness of what's pertinent that others have mentioned.
posted by mskyle at 9:37 AM on November 12, 2015 [2 favorites]
Oh and I was a librarian at a pharmacy school - people absolutley do lie to their doctor and pharmacist about whether they have been taking their medications, and they absolutely do not follow instructions, and they exaggerate and/or minimize their symptoms. It's a huge thing.
This is just normal human behavior, coupled with the lack of vocabulary/awareness of what's pertinent that others have mentioned.
posted by mskyle at 9:37 AM on November 12, 2015 [2 favorites]
Computers and networks are very complex things, obviously. Being human is partly about making general conclusions about complex phenomena. This can be a problem when you need to isolate a specific reason why something isn't working. This is not restricted to "users." I've seen IT colleagues make erroneous conclusions about print servers, say, just because two people had completely different problems that happened to involve printing. The tendency to globalize problems and/or jump to conclusions based on superficial similarities is only worse when you know very little about the complex device in front of you. Truth is, most people don't need to know those complexities, and they are not confronted with them until something breaks. The solution, I think, is to ask questions. And probably not assume they are lying.
posted by baseballpajamas at 9:38 AM on November 12, 2015
posted by baseballpajamas at 9:38 AM on November 12, 2015
I have run a service providing tech support for older disabled people. They're not lying. They don't understand how it works in the same way you do, and they don't have your vocabulary to explain it.
Our classic example was "I can't read my emails" - could mean the WiFi was down, could mean the motherboard was fried, could mean a virus, could mean they'd deleted the shortcut that their nephew had handily labelled 'Emails'. Our volunteers would always ask us for more information about the problems before they went to visit the customer, but even though our team were good at propping people to try to get to the source of the problem, our customers often just didn't have the understanding and the language to explain it. It was only when someone was in their home in front of the computer that you could be sure what had happened.
So many people only know how to do certain specific tasks in certain specific ways on their computers. See also - the many problems when MS introduced the ribbon; people who bring up google and then search for the website they want to visit; the many people who don't understand the difference between a search engine and a browser.
The flip side of that were the people who'd apply to volunteer who thought they were good with computers, who really only knew how to do a limited set of things and the moment they were faced with a slightly different set up, they were stuck.
posted by Helga-woo at 9:48 AM on November 12, 2015 [2 favorites]
Our classic example was "I can't read my emails" - could mean the WiFi was down, could mean the motherboard was fried, could mean a virus, could mean they'd deleted the shortcut that their nephew had handily labelled 'Emails'. Our volunteers would always ask us for more information about the problems before they went to visit the customer, but even though our team were good at propping people to try to get to the source of the problem, our customers often just didn't have the understanding and the language to explain it. It was only when someone was in their home in front of the computer that you could be sure what had happened.
So many people only know how to do certain specific tasks in certain specific ways on their computers. See also - the many problems when MS introduced the ribbon; people who bring up google and then search for the website they want to visit; the many people who don't understand the difference between a search engine and a browser.
The flip side of that were the people who'd apply to volunteer who thought they were good with computers, who really only knew how to do a limited set of things and the moment they were faced with a slightly different set up, they were stuck.
posted by Helga-woo at 9:48 AM on November 12, 2015 [2 favorites]
This isn't lying. It's an inexperienced user explaining a problem to the best of their abilities given their lack of knowledge of and experience with a technical topic. Very, very few people possess the vocabulary and background knowledge to assess and address a technical issue, much less communicate it to a tech support expert.
Calling it lying is condescending and not remotely appropriate.
posted by Hermione Granger at 9:52 AM on November 12, 2015 [23 favorites]
Calling it lying is condescending and not remotely appropriate.
posted by Hermione Granger at 9:52 AM on November 12, 2015 [23 favorites]
When I've lied, it was usually in response to "have you tried this?"
My thought process was "Shit, that was so obvious! I'll look like an idiot if I admit I haven't tried it!" And then I panicked.
This is not IT-specific, though.
posted by Omnomnom at 10:03 AM on November 12, 2015
My thought process was "Shit, that was so obvious! I'll look like an idiot if I admit I haven't tried it!" And then I panicked.
This is not IT-specific, though.
posted by Omnomnom at 10:03 AM on November 12, 2015
I kinda do this for a living.
Pay attention to the answers telling you this is a problem across disciplines - IT, medicine, libraries, etc. Fundamentally, it's a communication issue. I also like to think of it in terms of the four stages of competence.
Your question is making a lot of presumptions (ex. - you're presuming that they're knowingly lying or exaggerating the problem). Many of these answers are, as well ("this isn't lying" - a not insignificant number of times it most definitely is lying). The trick here is to drill down past the assumptions on both sides to what the problem actually is - not what the problem is claimed to be. Maybe the set of presumptions on both sides is the same - often, they're not. Even if they're the same, they might be wrong.
Now, the trick is how to get to what's needed instead of what's asked - without being insulting? I've found very few professions really spend very much time thinking about this part of the problem, and focus almost exclusively on the technical or tactical troubleshooting. There's no one size fits all answer here because you don't know how easily insulted either party will be. I've personally experienced doctors speculatively asking me if hives on my back were due to some ethnic ritual, and my wife has been asked if I beat her (actual phrasing "is your home life safe?"). I can clutch my pearls and be pissed off and insulted, or I can try and make the best of our interaction - but that's me. Others are going to form a twitter mob or presume lying. Don't be the latter. Solve their actual problem. Use your more outrageous cases to entertain your co-workers at the bar.
In terms of how to actually do that - I do a lot of "help me understand this part" and "let me play that bit back to you to make sure I understood you." Sometimes my playback will be deliberately wrong in the interests of provoking clarification.
posted by NoRelationToLea at 10:08 AM on November 12, 2015 [8 favorites]
Pay attention to the answers telling you this is a problem across disciplines - IT, medicine, libraries, etc. Fundamentally, it's a communication issue. I also like to think of it in terms of the four stages of competence.
Your question is making a lot of presumptions (ex. - you're presuming that they're knowingly lying or exaggerating the problem). Many of these answers are, as well ("this isn't lying" - a not insignificant number of times it most definitely is lying). The trick here is to drill down past the assumptions on both sides to what the problem actually is - not what the problem is claimed to be. Maybe the set of presumptions on both sides is the same - often, they're not. Even if they're the same, they might be wrong.
Now, the trick is how to get to what's needed instead of what's asked - without being insulting? I've found very few professions really spend very much time thinking about this part of the problem, and focus almost exclusively on the technical or tactical troubleshooting. There's no one size fits all answer here because you don't know how easily insulted either party will be. I've personally experienced doctors speculatively asking me if hives on my back were due to some ethnic ritual, and my wife has been asked if I beat her (actual phrasing "is your home life safe?"). I can clutch my pearls and be pissed off and insulted, or I can try and make the best of our interaction - but that's me. Others are going to form a twitter mob or presume lying. Don't be the latter. Solve their actual problem. Use your more outrageous cases to entertain your co-workers at the bar.
In terms of how to actually do that - I do a lot of "help me understand this part" and "let me play that bit back to you to make sure I understood you." Sometimes my playback will be deliberately wrong in the interests of provoking clarification.
posted by NoRelationToLea at 10:08 AM on November 12, 2015 [8 favorites]
My main experience when doing tech support was that people called when 1) they were frustrated, because something didn't work, AND 2) they were super defensive, because they were afraid it was their own damn fault. And often it was! But saying "so, by calling this your backup, you mean it was your only copy anywhere" was just going to make that person even closer to tears.
So one of the things I tried to do was to reassure people early on, mostly because upset people make me upset. But the upside of this was that people (once they realized I wasn't going to join in on calling them a moron for forgetting the password they had to change every few weeks) would be more accurate, more willing to listen and just more Helpful in letting me diagnose the problem.
posted by ldthomps at 10:08 AM on November 12, 2015 [3 favorites]
So one of the things I tried to do was to reassure people early on, mostly because upset people make me upset. But the upside of this was that people (once they realized I wasn't going to join in on calling them a moron for forgetting the password they had to change every few weeks) would be more accurate, more willing to listen and just more Helpful in letting me diagnose the problem.
posted by ldthomps at 10:08 AM on November 12, 2015 [3 favorites]
It's also that technical support is slow to respond and sometimes overly flip when they do so. If you're the person who can't get their work completed because the system isn't working, then it's a real problem for you. An answer from tech support which is basically "no one else has that problem, reboot and call me later" is fine if the reboot solves it, but is a problem for the person who's going to need to stay late to complete their work.
Sometimes people exaggerate because it's the only way to get attention for tech support.
posted by 26.2 at 10:10 AM on November 12, 2015
Sometimes people exaggerate because it's the only way to get attention for tech support.
posted by 26.2 at 10:10 AM on November 12, 2015
China Grover: "Actually, when I have computer problems, and I say "two posts are missing" (from your example), I don't get any help. BUT, when I say something catostrophic has happened, I do get help. "
This is not to be underestimated. When someone who knows what they are talking about calls IT for help, (in my experience), the end result is not help.
I have called before and offered info such as "Line X in script Y calls an outdated script plug-in. This line is now causing your script to fail on the default web browser for Platform X. You need to update the script that is called, the new version of this script can simply be dropped in to replace the old one with no further code changes needed."
What I get back is generally crickets, or I am just referred through loops of people and multiple tech help scripts, until I finally either get a manager who understands that my take is correct, or I give up and say "your whole website is broken".
posted by caution live frogs at 10:29 AM on November 12, 2015 [6 favorites]
This is not to be underestimated. When someone who knows what they are talking about calls IT for help, (in my experience), the end result is not help.
I have called before and offered info such as "Line X in script Y calls an outdated script plug-in. This line is now causing your script to fail on the default web browser for Platform X. You need to update the script that is called, the new version of this script can simply be dropped in to replace the old one with no further code changes needed."
What I get back is generally crickets, or I am just referred through loops of people and multiple tech help scripts, until I finally either get a manager who understands that my take is correct, or I give up and say "your whole website is broken".
posted by caution live frogs at 10:29 AM on November 12, 2015 [6 favorites]
My guess, based on being a late-GenX/Millennial-cusp type person who has experienced years of working in offices, talking to my parents, etc. is that people get overwhelmed, and they don't know a lot about how computers work, so they tend to catastrophize.
I get a lot of "X Device is broken!" complaints in the above situations, which almost invariably are
A) not broken in the slightest
B) often unrelated to the issue at hand, for example "my iPad is broken!" often equals "the office's router needs to be reset"
and/or
C) something easily googled, with a dead simple solution that comes up right at the top of the search results.
This is probably not that different from how people behave with their cars. I pride myself on knowing stuff about stuff and doing things myself, but even I have been known to bring my car into the shop because CAR ABOUT TO EXPLODE PLEASE SAVE ME and then be told it's a faulty O2 sensor that maybe should be replaced whenever I get around to it but certainly isn't urgent.
Also, yes, my father is a primary care doctor and people lie, catastrophize, and do basically this exact same thing with healthcare issues all the time. See also "I have a cold, please give me a Z-pak!"
posted by Sara C. at 10:50 AM on November 12, 2015 [2 favorites]
I get a lot of "X Device is broken!" complaints in the above situations, which almost invariably are
A) not broken in the slightest
B) often unrelated to the issue at hand, for example "my iPad is broken!" often equals "the office's router needs to be reset"
and/or
C) something easily googled, with a dead simple solution that comes up right at the top of the search results.
This is probably not that different from how people behave with their cars. I pride myself on knowing stuff about stuff and doing things myself, but even I have been known to bring my car into the shop because CAR ABOUT TO EXPLODE PLEASE SAVE ME and then be told it's a faulty O2 sensor that maybe should be replaced whenever I get around to it but certainly isn't urgent.
Also, yes, my father is a primary care doctor and people lie, catastrophize, and do basically this exact same thing with healthcare issues all the time. See also "I have a cold, please give me a Z-pak!"
posted by Sara C. at 10:50 AM on November 12, 2015 [2 favorites]
My take on it:
Many people, even smart people, are genuinely clueless about what they just did and how it all works. Test me--I'd flail sooner than I'd care to admit.
My mom is actually pretty good at doing the stuff she learned to do on her computer, but if her favourite news site doesn't load the weather forecast video, she'll report to me "today my computer is really crazy" and I have to talk her out of it.
Related, I think, is the "magic"-kind-of-aspect of microelectronics. If something is wrong, potentially everything can go wrong pretty soon, so doom-thinker-Brain just provides some random version from along that anticipated path of doom.
posted by Namlit at 10:56 AM on November 12, 2015
Many people, even smart people, are genuinely clueless about what they just did and how it all works. Test me--I'd flail sooner than I'd care to admit.
My mom is actually pretty good at doing the stuff she learned to do on her computer, but if her favourite news site doesn't load the weather forecast video, she'll report to me "today my computer is really crazy" and I have to talk her out of it.
Related, I think, is the "magic"-kind-of-aspect of microelectronics. If something is wrong, potentially everything can go wrong pretty soon, so doom-thinker-Brain just provides some random version from along that anticipated path of doom.
posted by Namlit at 10:56 AM on November 12, 2015
I do this for a living, helping computer novices fix things about their computers. I do this for a job, I don't work for a vendor or a school, and I do it because I LOVE IT, so I have a perspective that may be a little different.
1. people aren't lying. They may have a different viewpoint of the issue than you do, but they're rarely doing it on purpose. Sometimes they are doing it because they may be lazy, other times because they don't understand a thing other times because they are stressed out and are having trouble communicating.
2. 50% of everyone are sub-average communicators in general. They can't pick a restaurant, they can't talk about issues in their relationships, they can't tell when someone else wants out of the conversation, why would they be any better at talking about tech support issues?
3. Usually, initially, they think the computer is a magic box and that you are a magician. So they figure you will wave a wand and it doesn't matter what is wrong, you will fix it. Then they get jaded and after a while decide that it doesn't matter what is wrong, you might or might not fix it (randomly) and will make them feel stupid for doing it.
4. I DO THIS TOO. I recently submitted a bug report to a website about a thing their website did without actually trying it on more than one browser. Now I could argue that it's stupid to have a website that doesn't work on any major browser but it was also stupid of me to not try a few browsers before telling them it was a bug. This was more because I was overconfident about my own abilities.
People very much do not understand the huge hanging spinning mobile that is technology.... They don't know what is software and what is hardware. They don't know what is a setting they could change and what is a thing an administrator needs to change or what is unchangeable. They don't know what "defaults" even mean much less how to change them. They don't know that turning it off and on again fixes 75% of everything. And we teach them. And some of them don't remember because ... they are bad at remembering. They aren't prioritizing you and your knowledge. They have other more pressing issues. They don't care. They care deeply but they can only learn from lists not flow charts. They care too much and have emotional meltdowns instead of constructive problem-solving sessions.
Basically whatever is keeping them from knowing these things about computers in the first place in 2015 (difference between "Internet is down" and "I can't load a website") is likely the same thing that is keeping them from learning once you teach them. We have no technological safety net for people who are just not going to be able to learn some things. Framing this as them intentionally obfuscating things is you being unclear about the reality of the situation these people are in.
posted by jessamyn at 11:20 AM on November 12, 2015 [31 favorites]
1. people aren't lying. They may have a different viewpoint of the issue than you do, but they're rarely doing it on purpose. Sometimes they are doing it because they may be lazy, other times because they don't understand a thing other times because they are stressed out and are having trouble communicating.
2. 50% of everyone are sub-average communicators in general. They can't pick a restaurant, they can't talk about issues in their relationships, they can't tell when someone else wants out of the conversation, why would they be any better at talking about tech support issues?
3. Usually, initially, they think the computer is a magic box and that you are a magician. So they figure you will wave a wand and it doesn't matter what is wrong, you will fix it. Then they get jaded and after a while decide that it doesn't matter what is wrong, you might or might not fix it (randomly) and will make them feel stupid for doing it.
4. I DO THIS TOO. I recently submitted a bug report to a website about a thing their website did without actually trying it on more than one browser. Now I could argue that it's stupid to have a website that doesn't work on any major browser but it was also stupid of me to not try a few browsers before telling them it was a bug. This was more because I was overconfident about my own abilities.
People very much do not understand the huge hanging spinning mobile that is technology.... They don't know what is software and what is hardware. They don't know what is a setting they could change and what is a thing an administrator needs to change or what is unchangeable. They don't know what "defaults" even mean much less how to change them. They don't know that turning it off and on again fixes 75% of everything. And we teach them. And some of them don't remember because ... they are bad at remembering. They aren't prioritizing you and your knowledge. They have other more pressing issues. They don't care. They care deeply but they can only learn from lists not flow charts. They care too much and have emotional meltdowns instead of constructive problem-solving sessions.
Basically whatever is keeping them from knowing these things about computers in the first place in 2015 (difference between "Internet is down" and "I can't load a website") is likely the same thing that is keeping them from learning once you teach them. We have no technological safety net for people who are just not going to be able to learn some things. Framing this as them intentionally obfuscating things is you being unclear about the reality of the situation these people are in.
posted by jessamyn at 11:20 AM on November 12, 2015 [31 favorites]
Software engineer with customer-facing support experience here.
The ability to make fine-grained diagnostic distinctions about complex systems is something that does not come naturally to some (most?) people. Even those of us who do work in this field hone this skill over time. It's obvious to us that "foobar.com won't load" is not the same condition as "the internet is down" but for a lay user that distinction is not clear. They have a limited understanding that "can't reach website" == "network broken" but likely are not aware of nuances like regional services, intranet vs. internet, etc.—and there is no reason to expect that they would be aware of such details as this isn't their field. Users who do apply systematizing thinking can form their own diagnostic narratives based on their observations of the system in question, and while from our perspective these narratives might seem exaggerated or weird to us they aren't unreasonable when we take the user's view of the system into account.
Broadly, people can feel nervous and disempowered when interacting with complex systems that they must rely on in order to perform essential job or life-management functions. This nervousness is not confined to software or computer/network systems—consider the profound distrust one often hears when people talk about automobile mechanics. Nervousness can cause people to exaggerate, to behave fearfully with respect to the complex system, and to formulate rigid and ritualistic modes of interaction to produce a desired behavior or work around perceived degradation ("My car will start if I twiddle the radio knob twice and wait two minutes"). In software specifically, I often hear users refer to The System as a first-class entity, one that they often talk about as acting with a sort of limited intent. "Why doesn't The System do XYZ?" and "Why won't The System let me do such-and-such?: are frequent questions, indicating a perspective that software systems are all-encompassing, quasi-intelligent, and not necessarily benevolent.
When providing support I never assume that users are lying to me or deliberately exaggerating. Some individuals may be prone to such behavior but that is a problem with those individuals. Some people may feel forced to exaggerate because their questions or problems were not taken seriously in the past, and that is a problem with us as service providers being dismissive or condescending to our customers.
posted by 4rtemis at 11:41 AM on November 12, 2015 [6 favorites]
The ability to make fine-grained diagnostic distinctions about complex systems is something that does not come naturally to some (most?) people. Even those of us who do work in this field hone this skill over time. It's obvious to us that "foobar.com won't load" is not the same condition as "the internet is down" but for a lay user that distinction is not clear. They have a limited understanding that "can't reach website" == "network broken" but likely are not aware of nuances like regional services, intranet vs. internet, etc.—and there is no reason to expect that they would be aware of such details as this isn't their field. Users who do apply systematizing thinking can form their own diagnostic narratives based on their observations of the system in question, and while from our perspective these narratives might seem exaggerated or weird to us they aren't unreasonable when we take the user's view of the system into account.
Broadly, people can feel nervous and disempowered when interacting with complex systems that they must rely on in order to perform essential job or life-management functions. This nervousness is not confined to software or computer/network systems—consider the profound distrust one often hears when people talk about automobile mechanics. Nervousness can cause people to exaggerate, to behave fearfully with respect to the complex system, and to formulate rigid and ritualistic modes of interaction to produce a desired behavior or work around perceived degradation ("My car will start if I twiddle the radio knob twice and wait two minutes"). In software specifically, I often hear users refer to The System as a first-class entity, one that they often talk about as acting with a sort of limited intent. "Why doesn't The System do XYZ?" and "Why won't The System let me do such-and-such?: are frequent questions, indicating a perspective that software systems are all-encompassing, quasi-intelligent, and not necessarily benevolent.
When providing support I never assume that users are lying to me or deliberately exaggerating. Some individuals may be prone to such behavior but that is a problem with those individuals. Some people may feel forced to exaggerate because their questions or problems were not taken seriously in the past, and that is a problem with us as service providers being dismissive or condescending to our customers.
posted by 4rtemis at 11:41 AM on November 12, 2015 [6 favorites]
You ask them whether they've done X. They swear that they haven't.
I once changed my password and forgot I had. I got into a near argument with a tech support person over it. Just plain forgetfulness could explain at least some of this phenom.
Some are better than others at picking up abstraction. I had to explain the tree directory structure to a close friend at least 5 times before she got it.
Databases can be tricky. Sometimes updates take a while and sometimes fields revert without warning. This seemed to happen at a vendor's website I was using, leading to a lot of confusion.
posted by telstar at 11:51 AM on November 12, 2015
I once changed my password and forgot I had. I got into a near argument with a tech support person over it. Just plain forgetfulness could explain at least some of this phenom.
Some are better than others at picking up abstraction. I had to explain the tree directory structure to a close friend at least 5 times before she got it.
Databases can be tricky. Sometimes updates take a while and sometimes fields revert without warning. This seemed to happen at a vendor's website I was using, leading to a lot of confusion.
posted by telstar at 11:51 AM on November 12, 2015
It's tough to be patient when you have a support job, but it's a two way street. . Our IT people were constantly denying there were server issues (too many users!) because they knew they couldn't do much about it because the company was not going to invest in a fix. It would take 7-8 reports of server issues before they would actually deign to believe you. Overtime they "upgraded our functionality" there would be glitches and they would deny that too- until they figured out a work around. Often they found a glitch effecting everyone and would have a "fix" but only use word of mouth instead of the mass email we deserved. It was political- they did not want to document problems!
Like us, they were too busy to cope with a big upsurge in work, and took it out on us, often blaming the issues on us. Literally the work tickets would claim user error when it was not. Politics!
I would try and cut to the chase by letting them know (because they would waste 5 minutes asking) which portal, server and log in I used- as well as what I tried to do to resolve it already!- and it was rarely appreciated. I felt they a few were overwhelmed, and wanted to give out canned answers. I learned to reach out to people who actually wanted to solve the problem instead of making it appear on paper that I was the problem. That is corporate America in a nutshell.
posted by TenaciousB at 12:00 PM on November 12, 2015
Like us, they were too busy to cope with a big upsurge in work, and took it out on us, often blaming the issues on us. Literally the work tickets would claim user error when it was not. Politics!
I would try and cut to the chase by letting them know (because they would waste 5 minutes asking) which portal, server and log in I used- as well as what I tried to do to resolve it already!- and it was rarely appreciated. I felt they a few were overwhelmed, and wanted to give out canned answers. I learned to reach out to people who actually wanted to solve the problem instead of making it appear on paper that I was the problem. That is corporate America in a nutshell.
posted by TenaciousB at 12:00 PM on November 12, 2015
Tangent:
NoRelationToLea: my wife has been asked if I beat her (actual phrasing "is your home life safe?")
I live alone, and any time I go to a medical professional for anything at all, I get asked "do you feel safe at home?" right after they ask "are you in any pain today?" It's absolutely standard, and has been for several years, as a way to give domestic abuse sufferers an opening to get help without having to do the incredibly hard work of reaching out.
posted by current resident at 12:03 PM on November 12, 2015 [7 favorites]
NoRelationToLea: my wife has been asked if I beat her (actual phrasing "is your home life safe?")
I live alone, and any time I go to a medical professional for anything at all, I get asked "do you feel safe at home?" right after they ask "are you in any pain today?" It's absolutely standard, and has been for several years, as a way to give domestic abuse sufferers an opening to get help without having to do the incredibly hard work of reaching out.
posted by current resident at 12:03 PM on November 12, 2015 [7 favorites]
First, people think exclusively in terms of their own goals. If for you "the Internet" is "the thing where I look at photos of my grandkids which have been sent to my Hotmail account", then anything which disrupts that task is "the Internet is broken" and the fact that other sites load is completely irrelevant. I have heard "my telephone is broken" where the underlying cause was not topping up the balance. The mental model is me:the system:my goal and we don't care about the terminology. The Internet is down!
Also, people assume that the system can't be understood. People are no more going to read the dialogue box than you would sit and pore through a restaurant menu in an alphabet you can't read. Why bother? Doing so would be a wilfully stupid use of your time, right? If that's your only option, point, smile and hope, or walk away, or ask someone that does understand the language.
Finally, you are part of the system. The same way people use heuristics to print out, or get to their email, or know that when a little rectangle pops up you should always click on "X" (or is it always "OK"?), they have a good idea what to say to you to get you to come and fix it. It's the same way you might restrict yourself to saying "Am I under arrest? I want to speak to my lawyer. No comment" when approached by police, even if everything is probably fine. Why risk it?
None of this is exclusive to computing, I think it would happen almost any time that people use a system they don't understand and have to communicate with an expert about. Doctors have been mentioned several times, and I'm also reminded of a recent FPP about people claiming to have allergies in order to avoid certain foods at restaurants. It's not so much deception as misaimed communication.
posted by Wrinkled Stumpskin at 12:06 PM on November 12, 2015 [3 favorites]
Also, people assume that the system can't be understood. People are no more going to read the dialogue box than you would sit and pore through a restaurant menu in an alphabet you can't read. Why bother? Doing so would be a wilfully stupid use of your time, right? If that's your only option, point, smile and hope, or walk away, or ask someone that does understand the language.
Finally, you are part of the system. The same way people use heuristics to print out, or get to their email, or know that when a little rectangle pops up you should always click on "X" (or is it always "OK"?), they have a good idea what to say to you to get you to come and fix it. It's the same way you might restrict yourself to saying "Am I under arrest? I want to speak to my lawyer. No comment" when approached by police, even if everything is probably fine. Why risk it?
None of this is exclusive to computing, I think it would happen almost any time that people use a system they don't understand and have to communicate with an expert about. Doctors have been mentioned several times, and I'm also reminded of a recent FPP about people claiming to have allergies in order to avoid certain foods at restaurants. It's not so much deception as misaimed communication.
posted by Wrinkled Stumpskin at 12:06 PM on November 12, 2015 [3 favorites]
My husband works in IT and I have a decent knowledge of computers. At my last position my department often ended up helping people with tech related things (digital kits, social media, websites, etc.) I agree that this literally what people think. They think the whole blog is down because the one they're looking for is gone. They think the internet is not working because the one webpage isn't working. They literally don't think to check other places because that still doesn't solve their problem. They need THAT webpage.
As for people thinking they did X or didn't do Y, I think a lot of people honestly don't know. I've literally walked someone through a process as simple as sorting their downloads folder by Most Recent so they could easily find what they just downloaded. It changed their world - and they own a business! Some people just really don't "get" computers even though they may be smart or good at other things.
That said, I think often in IT or tech support there's an issue of people being very condescending. Like I said, I'm pretty knowledgeable about computers and my husband's a programmer. I work on a Mac and had Windows at work so there were some things I wasn't super familiar with.
However, I once sent a ticket to our tech support that one of my programs was crashing. I then explained what was happening, what I had tried, what errors I get, etc. When the guy came to help (a small company so we all know each other well) he very condescendingly said, "Well actually this program isn't crashing. It's hanging."
I'll admit. It pissed me off. Sorry that I didn't use the exact right word, but I completely explained my problem. There was a million different ways he could have said that without coming across as rude. So even I - someone who has a good tech vocabulary - was made to feel small and dumb because of one word. I think many people feel that way and get very flustered when talking to tech support. Realize it's just as frustrating for them when their thing doesn't work and they may not know the exact right words to use.
posted by Crystalinne at 12:20 PM on November 12, 2015 [4 favorites]
As for people thinking they did X or didn't do Y, I think a lot of people honestly don't know. I've literally walked someone through a process as simple as sorting their downloads folder by Most Recent so they could easily find what they just downloaded. It changed their world - and they own a business! Some people just really don't "get" computers even though they may be smart or good at other things.
That said, I think often in IT or tech support there's an issue of people being very condescending. Like I said, I'm pretty knowledgeable about computers and my husband's a programmer. I work on a Mac and had Windows at work so there were some things I wasn't super familiar with.
However, I once sent a ticket to our tech support that one of my programs was crashing. I then explained what was happening, what I had tried, what errors I get, etc. When the guy came to help (a small company so we all know each other well) he very condescendingly said, "Well actually this program isn't crashing. It's hanging."
I'll admit. It pissed me off. Sorry that I didn't use the exact right word, but I completely explained my problem. There was a million different ways he could have said that without coming across as rude. So even I - someone who has a good tech vocabulary - was made to feel small and dumb because of one word. I think many people feel that way and get very flustered when talking to tech support. Realize it's just as frustrating for them when their thing doesn't work and they may not know the exact right words to use.
posted by Crystalinne at 12:20 PM on November 12, 2015 [4 favorites]
And on a similar note it reminds me of when I lose the remote and my husband will ask if I'm sitting on it. I get annoyed and say NOOO. I already checked!! Only to find that I am, in fact, sitting on the remote. People think they know what they've tried or not tried but... it's not always the case.
posted by Crystalinne at 12:24 PM on November 12, 2015
posted by Crystalinne at 12:24 PM on November 12, 2015
I think the technically competent user is tech support's worst nightmare. Our tech support staff have to meet a specific timeline specified in the SLA. They has two approaches - one was downgrading the criticality of the ticket, the other is just closing the ticket outright. In response we wrote macros that would instantly reset criticality and reopen tickets. It was like a war until we got more (and better trained) technical support.
Short answer: Some users genuinely don't know what's happening or how to describe it. Some users are doing exactly what you trained them to do.
posted by 26.2 at 1:00 PM on November 12, 2015 [2 favorites]
Short answer: Some users genuinely don't know what's happening or how to describe it. Some users are doing exactly what you trained them to do.
posted by 26.2 at 1:00 PM on November 12, 2015 [2 favorites]
"I can't load one particular website" becomes "the Internet is down".
This in particular is one a lot of people really just don't understand, as well as related things like the difference between a web page and a web browser and another desktop application and a file system. The really fun thing is to trace how the particular way in which people fail to understand these distinctions shifts as computing changes - which, to be fair, is driven by actual blurring of the distinctions between web pages and apps, between local storage and remote, and so on.
posted by atoxyl at 4:54 PM on November 12, 2015
This in particular is one a lot of people really just don't understand, as well as related things like the difference between a web page and a web browser and another desktop application and a file system. The really fun thing is to trace how the particular way in which people fail to understand these distinctions shifts as computing changes - which, to be fair, is driven by actual blurring of the distinctions between web pages and apps, between local storage and remote, and so on.
posted by atoxyl at 4:54 PM on November 12, 2015
I feel you, but I don't think it's just computers. People with machines (valves, pumps, motors, turbines) are just as bad. I think it's a combination of not wanting to seem stupid (is it plugged in? Yes, of course! [sound of looking behind the desk]) and actually wanting to be helpful. A lot of people have already decided in their mind what the problem is often without actually having a single clue or basis to make ANY type of speculation, but they do anyway. They will attempt to lead you to the same conclusion.
It's best to just say something like, I'm going to ask you some dumb questions. It's not because I think you're dumb, but because then I can stop thinking about it and focus. It's faster this way, I promise, even if they're just formalities. What did you see that made you notice the problem? What did you expect to see?
The worst is people who tell you what they think problem is, but will not focus long enough to start at the beginning and tell you the symptoms.
posted by ctmf at 7:48 PM on November 12, 2015
It's best to just say something like, I'm going to ask you some dumb questions. It's not because I think you're dumb, but because then I can stop thinking about it and focus. It's faster this way, I promise, even if they're just formalities. What did you see that made you notice the problem? What did you expect to see?
The worst is people who tell you what they think problem is, but will not focus long enough to start at the beginning and tell you the symptoms.
posted by ctmf at 7:48 PM on November 12, 2015
Not only that, but I've seen this from both perspectives. I used to be all "computer guy" back in the day. Now I don't have the time or give-a-shit enough for that. Computer's not doing what I think it should? Broken. Put in a ticket. (but at least I limit it to observable behavior, not speculation - and my default assumption is that I'm stupid so I can be pleasantly surprised if I'm not.)
posted by ctmf at 7:52 PM on November 12, 2015
posted by ctmf at 7:52 PM on November 12, 2015
Everybody has a mental model of how the thing they are using is supposed to work. This may be wrong, or have extra steps in it (like typing the name of the URL into the Google search bar, I see this all the time), but if it works for them, then it works for them.
When that model doesn't work anymore due to a problem, they get frustrated and confused. Now this can be exceedingly frustrating when this is the core of what they are supposed to be working with all day, and frustrated/confused people may not be the most exact when reporting an issue. "This is broken!" makes sense in their context, because it is. Just what way it's broken, that's a different story.
Ideally people would be great at writing bug reports, but they may not have the domain knowledge to do so. And a the user shouldn't have to know that there's an issue with cross-domain scripting or a webservice is down so they can't order a thing. It's like asking people to rebuild a car engine before they can drive on the street.
You can also go the other way. I was on the phone with my credit union the other day to ask them about a thing, and I noticed they had a problem on their site. I described the problem to the rep as clearly as possible, but I guarantee that report never made it in one piece to the dev team, because "the SSL certificate on that domain expired two days ago" is not something most normal people say.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 11:00 PM on November 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
When that model doesn't work anymore due to a problem, they get frustrated and confused. Now this can be exceedingly frustrating when this is the core of what they are supposed to be working with all day, and frustrated/confused people may not be the most exact when reporting an issue. "This is broken!" makes sense in their context, because it is. Just what way it's broken, that's a different story.
Ideally people would be great at writing bug reports, but they may not have the domain knowledge to do so. And a the user shouldn't have to know that there's an issue with cross-domain scripting or a webservice is down so they can't order a thing. It's like asking people to rebuild a car engine before they can drive on the street.
You can also go the other way. I was on the phone with my credit union the other day to ask them about a thing, and I noticed they had a problem on their site. I described the problem to the rep as clearly as possible, but I guarantee that report never made it in one piece to the dev team, because "the SSL certificate on that domain expired two days ago" is not something most normal people say.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 11:00 PM on November 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
I don't think this is unique to IT at all. I work in a medical field and see people doing it all the time. As an example they will report something real and non life threatening (eg. cut arm) and invent life threatening symptoms (eg. "he has lost so much blood he is unconscious!") I think they exaggerate their symptoms to get seen quicker and so the medical professionals will try to fix it on the spot, rather than telling them how to fix it themselves or making them an appointment. They also say "I've already tried [solution]" because they have another solution in mind and want you to suggest that. For instance "I've already taken painkillers and it still hurts. Can I have an x-ray? I think I need that operation I saw on TV last week".
posted by intensitymultiply at 1:14 AM on November 13, 2015
posted by intensitymultiply at 1:14 AM on November 13, 2015
Don't be too hasty in your judgement. Someone who sat next to me at work had the same often repeated issue with searching for something on a database. I watched her search for the thing, spaces, lower caps etc. I searched for it. Other colleagues would search (on her computer might I add). It didn't bring up what she wanted. Every time she called the boss over he'd ask the same questions 'did you make sure you used lowercase?' 'Did you make sure you didn't add any spaces in front of the first word?' Etc. and every single time when he searched for it, he could find it. He always approached her with the roll eyes, as if she was lying. She wasn't. There is no explanation for this. It wasn't always but it happened often. Is there a scientific term for 'magic touch?'
posted by ihaveyourfoot at 6:26 AM on November 13, 2015
posted by ihaveyourfoot at 6:26 AM on November 13, 2015
This is not at all exclusive to computer users.
To take an example from a completely different walk of life, let us consider the simple zipper. It is an extremely useful object that is omnipresent in modern life, and yet it is still slightly mysterious to a lot of people. If a zipper pull stops working, and your jacket stops zipping, do you know how to fix it? Can you differentiate at a glance between a zipper that just needs a bit of love and a zipper that needs to be completely replaced? Do you know the most efficient way to replace a zipper that is completely broken?
I can, because I used to work in outdoor education, taking kids on camping trips, and in the process I learned a lot about zippers. Mostly because it's a much bigger problem when a tent zipper stops working in the middle of nowhere and it's been raining for the last 4 days than it is when the zipper stops working on your favorite hoodie while you're at the office. We used to spend an afternoon teaching kids how to set up the tents before we went out into the mountains, and we would always emphasize: Be Nice to the Zipper. Don't Drag too Hard on it, or You'll Be Sorry (90% of zipper problems happen because the people who use them are in a hurry and aren't gentle enough with them).
Nevertheless, about halfway into any camping trip, kids would start coming up to me (because I had somehow developed a reputation as the zipper guru) and they'd say things like, "Help! Our tent is broken!" or "I don't know why, but the zipper is stuck on our tent, can you come look?" or (sometimes) "Help! I'm stuck! We're never going to be able to get out!" They weren't lying or trying to be disingenuous or obnoxious, even though the entire tent usually wasn't broken, and the reason why the zipper got stuck was usually pretty evident. They just didn't understand how zippers worked really and, honestly, they didn't care that much about how they worked: they just wanted them to work. And if you're stuck inside your tent and it's time for dinner and you're hungry, or if you're just way outside of your comfort zone because you've never gone camping before and all of a sudden the tent that is supposed to be your home for the next week seems broken, it's easy to get a little melodramatic.
I got so I really liked dealing with zippers because people think you're a hero when you can fix an important zipper, even though it reality it's not that hard and just requires a bit of patience. Even some of my friends who worked in the same industry would get sort of reverential when they came by the gear room and found me fixing tents, which I always thought was sort of funny.
Personally, I find it works better to be kind to people when they are worried and frustrated because a piece of gear isn't working instead of getting angry and condescending about it.
posted by colfax at 7:22 AM on November 13, 2015 [7 favorites]
To take an example from a completely different walk of life, let us consider the simple zipper. It is an extremely useful object that is omnipresent in modern life, and yet it is still slightly mysterious to a lot of people. If a zipper pull stops working, and your jacket stops zipping, do you know how to fix it? Can you differentiate at a glance between a zipper that just needs a bit of love and a zipper that needs to be completely replaced? Do you know the most efficient way to replace a zipper that is completely broken?
I can, because I used to work in outdoor education, taking kids on camping trips, and in the process I learned a lot about zippers. Mostly because it's a much bigger problem when a tent zipper stops working in the middle of nowhere and it's been raining for the last 4 days than it is when the zipper stops working on your favorite hoodie while you're at the office. We used to spend an afternoon teaching kids how to set up the tents before we went out into the mountains, and we would always emphasize: Be Nice to the Zipper. Don't Drag too Hard on it, or You'll Be Sorry (90% of zipper problems happen because the people who use them are in a hurry and aren't gentle enough with them).
Nevertheless, about halfway into any camping trip, kids would start coming up to me (because I had somehow developed a reputation as the zipper guru) and they'd say things like, "Help! Our tent is broken!" or "I don't know why, but the zipper is stuck on our tent, can you come look?" or (sometimes) "Help! I'm stuck! We're never going to be able to get out!" They weren't lying or trying to be disingenuous or obnoxious, even though the entire tent usually wasn't broken, and the reason why the zipper got stuck was usually pretty evident. They just didn't understand how zippers worked really and, honestly, they didn't care that much about how they worked: they just wanted them to work. And if you're stuck inside your tent and it's time for dinner and you're hungry, or if you're just way outside of your comfort zone because you've never gone camping before and all of a sudden the tent that is supposed to be your home for the next week seems broken, it's easy to get a little melodramatic.
I got so I really liked dealing with zippers because people think you're a hero when you can fix an important zipper, even though it reality it's not that hard and just requires a bit of patience. Even some of my friends who worked in the same industry would get sort of reverential when they came by the gear room and found me fixing tents, which I always thought was sort of funny.
Personally, I find it works better to be kind to people when they are worried and frustrated because a piece of gear isn't working instead of getting angry and condescending about it.
posted by colfax at 7:22 AM on November 13, 2015 [7 favorites]
and, honestly, they didn't care that much about how they worked: they just wanted them to work
This is very true. I think most people only have so many slots in their heads for expansion cards. My mother doesn't understand computers, I have only a very basic grasp of how to build furniture that is structurally sound - on a basic survival level, she's better off than I am. I have a 20-year IT career but when I look at the three remote controls on the coffee table I'm just like no. I generally just don't watch TV on the TV if my husband isn't here. There are chemicals that go in my pool but I don't know what they are, maybe adamantium and grenadine? If my husband was abducted by aliens I would probably reprioritize knowing those things (or hire someone to come turn the TV on for me) but until then I'm just going to outsource it to him and use that space for knowing how to make bread.
posted by Lyn Never at 8:27 AM on November 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
This is very true. I think most people only have so many slots in their heads for expansion cards. My mother doesn't understand computers, I have only a very basic grasp of how to build furniture that is structurally sound - on a basic survival level, she's better off than I am. I have a 20-year IT career but when I look at the three remote controls on the coffee table I'm just like no. I generally just don't watch TV on the TV if my husband isn't here. There are chemicals that go in my pool but I don't know what they are, maybe adamantium and grenadine? If my husband was abducted by aliens I would probably reprioritize knowing those things (or hire someone to come turn the TV on for me) but until then I'm just going to outsource it to him and use that space for knowing how to make bread.
posted by Lyn Never at 8:27 AM on November 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
My husband used to do IT, & bitched about this. He had a real tendency to talk down to people that didn't "get" computers without realizing he was doing it. He would complain that people always over exaggerated their problems & if they just put in some effort they could do things "right".
It was suggested (rather firmly) to him by his boss at the time, instead of making people feel stupid for things going wrong & sighing & rolling his eyes he make it a welcoming place to come for advice. Also to try to avoid using technobable where possible with none tech people. I know you have to ask the whole have you tried switching it on & off again type questions, but the trick is to not to sound so bored & patronizing when you ask. Yes it's an easy boring job for you, for the person you are dealing with the problem is stopping them from doing their particular job.
Anyway end result people started coming to him for help sooner, he got a good reputation & got poached away by a much larger company at double the pay to do much more interesting work with the largest company in our particular area, reporting directly to the CEO, because he got the hang of explaining tech in simple terms that pass on information & don't make the other people from feel stupid. Most people think of computers like microwaves, we don't need or want to know how they work, we just want to heat up our damn hot pocket & be on our way, if my hot pocket setting isn't working, in my mind the microwave is broken.
posted by wwax at 12:08 PM on November 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
It was suggested (rather firmly) to him by his boss at the time, instead of making people feel stupid for things going wrong & sighing & rolling his eyes he make it a welcoming place to come for advice. Also to try to avoid using technobable where possible with none tech people. I know you have to ask the whole have you tried switching it on & off again type questions, but the trick is to not to sound so bored & patronizing when you ask. Yes it's an easy boring job for you, for the person you are dealing with the problem is stopping them from doing their particular job.
Anyway end result people started coming to him for help sooner, he got a good reputation & got poached away by a much larger company at double the pay to do much more interesting work with the largest company in our particular area, reporting directly to the CEO, because he got the hang of explaining tech in simple terms that pass on information & don't make the other people from feel stupid. Most people think of computers like microwaves, we don't need or want to know how they work, we just want to heat up our damn hot pocket & be on our way, if my hot pocket setting isn't working, in my mind the microwave is broken.
posted by wwax at 12:08 PM on November 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
Seconding the person above who mentioned that this happens in library work, too. People don't realize what they don't know, and leap to conclusions that are logical given the knowledge they have, but which are actually wrong, and enter the conversation using the conclusions they made.
Example: I've witnessed a reference interaction where the patron came in saying they wanted a book on "Indian clothing." During the course of the reference interview, the librarian discovered that what they were actually looking for was Seminole patchwork quilt patterns. The patron assumed that Seminole patterns were from traditional clothing made by the Seminole, and asked for the logical thing based on that: books on (American) Indian clothing. What they needed were books of quilt patterns.
If you cast that interaction from a different point of view, you could get a patron angry because they didn't find their pattern and a librarian angry because the patron asked for the wrong thing, but if you gently ask for more information (and the reference interview is an art!), you can usually steer the patron to the information they really need, instead of what they though they needed.
posted by telophase at 12:16 PM on November 13, 2015
Example: I've witnessed a reference interaction where the patron came in saying they wanted a book on "Indian clothing." During the course of the reference interview, the librarian discovered that what they were actually looking for was Seminole patchwork quilt patterns. The patron assumed that Seminole patterns were from traditional clothing made by the Seminole, and asked for the logical thing based on that: books on (American) Indian clothing. What they needed were books of quilt patterns.
If you cast that interaction from a different point of view, you could get a patron angry because they didn't find their pattern and a librarian angry because the patron asked for the wrong thing, but if you gently ask for more information (and the reference interview is an art!), you can usually steer the patron to the information they really need, instead of what they though they needed.
posted by telophase at 12:16 PM on November 13, 2015
One of the things I realized when I worked for an ISP is that the way you ask the question has an incredible influence over the answer. And in my experience many tech support people ask questions in a way that biases the responses they receive. If you ask somebody "and then did you click on the "defrobulate" button?" they're going to be biased towards telling you that they did because of the way the question was asked. Whereas if you ask instead "what did you do next?" and listen to hear whether they clicked the button, you may well get a different answer.
Perhaps I'm not explaining ideally, but in many instances your tone and framing of the question clearly communicate to the person what you are expecting to hear them answer and a fair number of people will be swayed by this, even if it means that they answer incorrectly.
posted by Nerd of the North at 12:20 AM on November 14, 2015 [4 favorites]
Perhaps I'm not explaining ideally, but in many instances your tone and framing of the question clearly communicate to the person what you are expecting to hear them answer and a fair number of people will be swayed by this, even if it means that they answer incorrectly.
posted by Nerd of the North at 12:20 AM on November 14, 2015 [4 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
God, but it's such a waste of everybody's time.
posted by orangutan at 8:27 AM on November 12, 2015 [13 favorites]