Do I need a waiver form for small bicycle race?
October 21, 2015 7:59 AM Subscribe
I am gonna host a bicycle race on some pasture that I own. The first edition will only involve 6-12 persons, but if it is fun (it will be), I'd like to expand/make it a regular (monthly or quarterly event). Do I need a waiver form for participants to sign, do you think? Is this kind of form easy to generate/find? This is in Kansas. I have homeowners and farm insurance. YANML.
If it's going to be more than just a few folks you know and trust, I'd say that you do. And if you do, I think getting a lawyer to set it up is the way to do it.
posted by bonehead at 8:26 AM on October 21, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by bonehead at 8:26 AM on October 21, 2015 [2 favorites]
Does your policy cover this?
There's no requirement that you do a waiver. It simply comes down to how much are you willing to risk if someone sues you.
posted by humboldt32 at 8:38 AM on October 21, 2015
There's no requirement that you do a waiver. It simply comes down to how much are you willing to risk if someone sues you.
posted by humboldt32 at 8:38 AM on October 21, 2015
Wow, yes, yes DEAR GOD, YES!! You want them to sign waivers, and you probably should consult with an attorney in your jurisdiction to determine whether there's anything special to add to the waiver.
You also probably want to talk to your insurance agent, or an insurance broker, to see what kind of insurance you need for such a thing, and whether what you currently have covers this activity (which, it probably doesn't).
You are wagering the farm (literally) that if someone hits a gopher hole and breaks their neck, their family won't sue you into oblivion (not a legal term).
IAAL, IANYL, TINLA.
posted by China Grover at 8:41 AM on October 21, 2015 [8 favorites]
You also probably want to talk to your insurance agent, or an insurance broker, to see what kind of insurance you need for such a thing, and whether what you currently have covers this activity (which, it probably doesn't).
You are wagering the farm (literally) that if someone hits a gopher hole and breaks their neck, their family won't sue you into oblivion (not a legal term).
IAAL, IANYL, TINLA.
posted by China Grover at 8:41 AM on October 21, 2015 [8 favorites]
Best answer: If it's just a few friends, you may be covered by your homeowners policy, but you'll need to check to be sure.
If this turns into anything larger, yes you definitely will need to be covered --- either with insurance or with waivers, but yes you'll need SOMETHING to cover yourself.
But depending on the property, that might not be all you need: if this was a rental property, not a place you own, you might also need the owner's/your landlord's written permission. And depending on the county, you might require zoning permission. (And if the event grows: food/drink sales might involve the health department. And what about parking or you neighbors? Probably way early to consider these things, but they're good to keep in mind for heading off future problems.)
posted by easily confused at 8:48 AM on October 21, 2015
If this turns into anything larger, yes you definitely will need to be covered --- either with insurance or with waivers, but yes you'll need SOMETHING to cover yourself.
But depending on the property, that might not be all you need: if this was a rental property, not a place you own, you might also need the owner's/your landlord's written permission. And depending on the county, you might require zoning permission. (And if the event grows: food/drink sales might involve the health department. And what about parking or you neighbors? Probably way early to consider these things, but they're good to keep in mind for heading off future problems.)
posted by easily confused at 8:48 AM on October 21, 2015
Best answer: I don't know where you are located but in my locale (BC, Canada) even a waiver isn't going to protect you at all. At best they're a due-diligence thing.
You want, need must have insurance. Your homeowners (here) would not even begin to cover any liability.
And getting said insurance is slow, expensive and difficult. The only really affordable way of doing so is to be a sanctioned body operating under a sporting federation that already has a registration and insurance agreement. IE: if you are going to have people come home you don't know, charge fees, offer spectating, award pries or even refer to the event as anything other than "a couple friends & I are going for an afternoon ride on the back '40" you're going to have to look into:
It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye and then you, individually, specifically are boned.
posted by mce at 9:29 AM on October 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
You want, need must have insurance. Your homeowners (here) would not even begin to cover any liability.
And getting said insurance is slow, expensive and difficult. The only really affordable way of doing so is to be a sanctioned body operating under a sporting federation that already has a registration and insurance agreement. IE: if you are going to have people come home you don't know, charge fees, offer spectating, award pries or even refer to the event as anything other than "a couple friends & I are going for an afternoon ride on the back '40" you're going to have to look into:
- finding your most appropriate local sanctioning body (cyclocross maybe?)
- forming a club/team
- probably forming a non profit to operate said club and reduce individual liability
- satisfying said sanctioning body's requirements for club registration
- ensuring all participants are also registered members of the sanction body
- getting your event sanctioned which will probably also require event insurance and adherence to all relevant sport specific bylaws & course regulations
- And then you can invite people for the afternoon.
It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye and then you, individually, specifically are boned.
posted by mce at 9:29 AM on October 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Thanks everybody so far! Okay, sounds like I definitely need to work on covering my ass.
If the first "event" is just half a dozen people I know, and there are no fees (I was thinking of offering a prize), is a waiver form gonna be enough? And should I approach my ins. company with this (specifically regarding "some friends are coming over")? Or is this not really answerable here?
posted by J0 at 9:48 AM on October 21, 2015
If the first "event" is just half a dozen people I know, and there are no fees (I was thinking of offering a prize), is a waiver form gonna be enough? And should I approach my ins. company with this (specifically regarding "some friends are coming over")? Or is this not really answerable here?
posted by J0 at 9:48 AM on October 21, 2015
What's the risk of one of your friends suing you if they break a leg and need PT that's not covered by BC Health?
That's the question you need to answer. Look at your policy to start.
posted by bonehead at 9:56 AM on October 21, 2015
That's the question you need to answer. Look at your policy to start.
posted by bonehead at 9:56 AM on October 21, 2015
IANYL, but I would say that fact that the event is just a half dozen people doesn't protect you. It takes just one broken neck to expose you to liability.
posted by merejane at 11:11 AM on October 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by merejane at 11:11 AM on October 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I've run a bunch of puzzle game things that aren't at all like cycling, and weren't in Kansas. But I think the questions you're asking are pretty general:
Waivers:
There's a lot of rights you can't waive. It doesn't matter what they sign, if they get hurt because of your negligence, you're liable. But not everyone knows this, so if someone does get hurt, and it's your fault, there's a chance they might think they can't sue you, which means they won't. Also the waiver does act as a reminder for the participants to try to be responsible for their own safety. I dunno it also might if it also helps when someone gets hurt even though you weren't negligent.
Note that if you are having players sign waivers, you should also ask any helpers to do so as well.
Insurance:
Event insurance is a thing you can get. So if someone does get hurt and decides you should be paying, you'll still be covered. Whenever I've gotten permits to use public parks, or rented private event space, that has required I have event insurance. For a couple hundred people I wound up paying a couple hundred bucks, but that was a kind of long event that send people all over a city.
If it were just a dozen people and I knew them and there weren't any fees I probably wouldn't bother with insurance the first time. But if it grows, and people I didn't know were showing up, I definitely would. It might be worth talking to some places that offer event insurance and getting quotes for this, even if you're not actually going to buy any insurance, so at least you know how much it'd cost.
posted by aubilenon at 11:46 AM on October 21, 2015
Waivers:
There's a lot of rights you can't waive. It doesn't matter what they sign, if they get hurt because of your negligence, you're liable. But not everyone knows this, so if someone does get hurt, and it's your fault, there's a chance they might think they can't sue you, which means they won't. Also the waiver does act as a reminder for the participants to try to be responsible for their own safety. I dunno it also might if it also helps when someone gets hurt even though you weren't negligent.
Note that if you are having players sign waivers, you should also ask any helpers to do so as well.
Insurance:
Event insurance is a thing you can get. So if someone does get hurt and decides you should be paying, you'll still be covered. Whenever I've gotten permits to use public parks, or rented private event space, that has required I have event insurance. For a couple hundred people I wound up paying a couple hundred bucks, but that was a kind of long event that send people all over a city.
If it were just a dozen people and I knew them and there weren't any fees I probably wouldn't bother with insurance the first time. But if it grows, and people I didn't know were showing up, I definitely would. It might be worth talking to some places that offer event insurance and getting quotes for this, even if you're not actually going to buy any insurance, so at least you know how much it'd cost.
posted by aubilenon at 11:46 AM on October 21, 2015
Best answer: A common term for unsanctioned (and illegal) street bike races is "alleycats." Unsanctioned cyclocross races (so, set up on a course in a park, generally not on land the organizer owns) are generally referred to as "bandit cross." Googling these terms may reveal some answers.
I faced a lot of the same nervous nellying when I was organizing alleycats in the aftermath of a well-publicized death during unsanctioned street race Tour de Chicago.
CYA, but people who are saying it's 200% not worth it are coming at it from a lawyery standpoint, not from the viewpoint of a group of friends who really love racing bikes.
posted by Juliet Banana at 1:08 AM on October 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
I faced a lot of the same nervous nellying when I was organizing alleycats in the aftermath of a well-publicized death during unsanctioned street race Tour de Chicago.
CYA, but people who are saying it's 200% not worth it are coming at it from a lawyery standpoint, not from the viewpoint of a group of friends who really love racing bikes.
posted by Juliet Banana at 1:08 AM on October 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I don't think anyone is saying it's not worth it, though. Just make sure you have the necessary liability insurance. Start by checking the coverage you already have. And also, be aware that waivers provide limited protection; they important thing is your liability insurance coverage.
posted by merejane at 9:43 AM on October 22, 2015
posted by merejane at 9:43 AM on October 22, 2015
Response by poster: So I checked with my insurance company, and their answer was that if this "event" was not open to the public (i.e. I've just invited some friends over) and if I was not making any money on it /no fees, that I would be covered. I've ticked those boxes anyway, so I think I will put any grander ambitions on hold.
posted by J0 at 12:01 PM on October 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by J0 at 12:01 PM on October 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
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posted by exogenous at 8:23 AM on October 21, 2015