It's clean, but it's not clean enough, apparently.
June 25, 2015 1:00 PM   Subscribe

I travel fairly frequently, and when I had a roommate, she watched my three cats while I was gone. Well, she moved out. So I found a couple who were offering to housesit for free in exchange for a place to stay in my (very expensive) area. I thought it was a win-win. Well, I left, and when I checked in, they told me that my apartment needed to be deep-cleaned and they wanted me to pay for it.

They did visit my condo before I left, and didn't seem put off by the state of the place. I had vacuumed, swept and mopped, cleaned all the surfaces, washed the sheets and towels, got rid of clutter and recycling, and made sure the litter area was as clean as possible. This took a ton of effort - I spent several hours a day cleaning in the week before I left.

So when they asked about having it cleaned, I was a little shocked. They told me in that first message (this is all via text, by the way) that they had gotten a quote and asked if I would pay the $100 cost. I responded the next day that I wasn't sure I could afford that, but I would think about it. They responded that they had already had it done so that they could "settle in" and we can talk about it when I return home.

I'm torn here.

I have autoimmune, chronic pain and motor neuron issues that make it hard to do more intense cleaning like scrubbing the floors and vacuuming the stairs. I could see that those two things weren't done, but I have trouble with seeing the need for a multiple person 5-hour deep clean.

There's also a big part of me that feels like I shouldn't be responsible for the cost, given that I left a clean house and they are staying for free in an apartment that I paid 2k for in the month I'm away in an area where average rent is a lot higher than that. They were previously staying with friends or in hotels.

I also won't see the benefits of the deep clean in a month when I return. That amount of money is not insubstantial to me either. I left them $40 because I knew they would have to replace the litter (which is about $15), but I did make sure there was more than enough cat food. There is also a lot of food in the apartment (non-perishable) that I told them they were welcome to eat. Whatever was left from the $40 after paying for litter was theirs.

I want to be fair here. What is my responsibility in this situation? How should I handle this situation in a reasonable and fair manner?

Thanks.
posted by guster4lovers to Human Relations (78 answers total) 4 users marked this as a favorite
 
No. No way. This is insane behavior on their part. Tell them you're very sorry they felt the place was not clean enough but that you can't afford the $100. And then don't ask them to house sit ever again.
posted by something something at 1:03 PM on June 25, 2015 [134 favorites]


You have absolutely no responsibility to pay for the cleaning in this situation, which is an absurd one. If the couple visited your place (and they're staying for free and have the nerve to ask you for money?!?!) beforehand, they were clearly aware of the relative cleanliness of the place, and you are under absolutely no compulsion to help them with this. If anyone is going to pay for a cleaning of this apartment it should be the couple at the end of their tenure there.
posted by andrewesque at 1:03 PM on June 25, 2015 [20 favorites]


These people are nuts.
posted by entropone at 1:04 PM on June 25, 2015 [7 favorites]


So they are staying in your place but taking care of your cats? Pay the $100.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:04 PM on June 25, 2015


Hell no don't pay it! They didn't even MENTION this to you before they went ahead and did it. That is because they know it's a crazy thing to demand. Request beforehand? Maybe. Demand repayment for after the fact? Wow no.
posted by showbiz_liz at 1:06 PM on June 25, 2015 [11 favorites]


Having them invite strangers into your apartment to clean it for you is in itself a violation. They had no business doing that while you weren't there; charging you money for it on top of that is simply absurd. You absolutely are not on the hook to pay this, because you didn't agree to it. I think it'd be worth pressing the point that they had absolutely no business hiring strangers to do work in your dwelling in the first place.
posted by mister pointy at 1:07 PM on June 25, 2015 [69 favorites]


Absolutely no way on earth! It's not their house, they should have asked before they got it cleaned, and not expected you to pay for it. Can you get someone else in to look after the cats and ask them to leave now? I wouldn't be happy with these con artists in my flat...
posted by intensitymultiply at 1:07 PM on June 25, 2015 [10 favorites]


In what apartment in what world does $100 get you a "deep cleaning?" I'd even be skeptical if they were talking about splitting it three ways and it actually cost $300. $100 isn't an hour's work for a cleaning crew that will do anything beyond what you've already done.

I'd be entertaining the idea that they're trying to gouge you for $100 and no cleaning was done at all.

More charitably, they're idiots and assholes. If you can, kick them out and get someone else. Don't pay them.
posted by cmoj at 1:10 PM on June 25, 2015 [60 favorites]


What the FUCK??? No. That is absolutely beyond the pale. They're staying in your place for free (except for performing a minor service) and they have it cleaned without clearing it with you first because it doesn't live up to their standards? That's bad enough, but now they want you to pay for it? Are they serious? No. That's nuts. The answer is no; there's nothing to discuss, unless they want to discuss how they got to be such entitled assholes.
posted by holborne at 1:11 PM on June 25, 2015 [6 favorites]


No, don't pay it but also NO do not discuss it until you get back. The last thing you want is a dispute that causes them to depart prematurely, leaving your cats without care.
posted by DarlingBri at 1:16 PM on June 25, 2015 [84 favorites]


Do you have any friends who might be able to replace these folks as your temporary cat-sitters, or do you know of a reputable paid service in your area? I would not trust people who behaved like this (a) in my home, or (b) with the care of my cats. I would consider spending money if you have to -- even if it has to be more than $100 -- but on cat-sitters you trust, not on a cleaning crew.
posted by brina at 1:16 PM on June 25, 2015 [9 favorites]


In what apartment in what world does $100 get you a "deep cleaning?" I'd even be skeptical if they were talking about splitting it three ways and it actually cost $300. $100 isn't an hour's work for a cleaning crew that will do anything beyond what you've already done.

This. Nobody's out there offering "deep cleaning" of apartments for 100 bucks. Nobody. Something is off here.
posted by phunniemee at 1:17 PM on June 25, 2015 [33 favorites]


I doubt that the $100 is for someone they hired. I would first of all say no, but out of curiosity I'd also like to see a receipt from the cleaning company that supposedly did this. I also find it very creepy that they possibly let a strange cleaning crew into your place, especially when they don't know if you perhaps have chemical allergies or something.
posted by Crystalinne at 1:20 PM on June 25, 2015 [4 favorites]


Eh, often cleaning companies will do really cheap deals for first-time customers. I can believe they hired someone to 'deep clean' for $100. (They probably didn't do a very thorough job though.)
posted by showbiz_liz at 1:21 PM on June 25, 2015 [1 favorite]


Response by poster: Cats have no special needs. The three of them are all 11-12 years old and require little more than opposable thumbs to open a can twice a day. I also have a very small herb garden (two pots in my front patio) that require watering every other day. That is the extent of the care required.

My apartment is small - while it's a two-bedroom condo, my assumption is that the cleaning focused on the living area downstairs (small dining room, kitchen, and living room) and bathroom. $100 seemed reasonable for the size of the area, though I did think it was odd for multiple people to clean for five hours for that price.
posted by guster4lovers at 1:21 PM on June 25, 2015


You should agree with them to discuss it when you get home, and not really mention it any further. When you get home and your cats and house are both safe, you can then refuse to pay. Also obviously if you have the opportunity to find someone more trustworthy to replace them right away, that would be ideal.
posted by poffin boffin at 1:29 PM on June 25, 2015 [15 favorites]


I'm confused. These people are staying in your apartment at no charge (in return for taking care of the cats, and, I presume, "keeping an eye out") and they are demanding that you must deep clean your apartment before they stay there? And after they checked the place out and approved it?

Seems fishy to me, especially given that they "got a quote". Feels like they are angling for a $100 payoff.
posted by theorique at 1:35 PM on June 25, 2015 [5 favorites]


I think you need to be prepared for the possibility that these people are scamming you and that your personal belongings may be in jeopardy.
posted by Hermione Granger at 1:37 PM on June 25, 2015 [77 favorites]


Commercial cleaner services generally don't "deep clean" in my experience. They make things presentable and get rid of surface dirt. I have hired such a few times on move-out from rentals. For $100, they would get a couple hours most likely, maybe a half-day worth of cleaning. That means washing a tub, but not scrubbing the grout, for example, cleaning the floors, but not doing the windows or washing the walls. Not a deep cleaning, by any means.
posted by bonehead at 1:37 PM on June 25, 2015 [3 favorites]


You're letting them stay in your place for feeding cats and cleaning the litter box. This is not an exchange that requires you to do a deep clean. It's pretty fishy, I'd just agree that yes, of course you will talk about it when you return, then refuse at that point. And look for a new petsitter immediately.
posted by jeather at 1:37 PM on June 25, 2015 [2 favorites]


I have twice had people scam me in tenant/sublet situations - maybe it's a meme among the criminally inclined. How did you recruit these people? Not that that's a sure bet - both times the scammers came from presumably reliable sources.
posted by mmiddle at 1:37 PM on June 25, 2015 [1 favorite]


Yeah I would definitely have a local friend drop by your place and make sure everything looks okay if that's at all possible. As long as we're spitballing re: nefarious intent here, it occurs to me that the "deep cleaning" could be to cover some kind of accident or damage.
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:41 PM on June 25, 2015 [18 favorites]


Do you know these people, or did you find them on Craigslist?

Do not pay for this. What they did is super-rude. They knew the condition of your place and agreed to say there, and then (allegedly) brought strangers into your home to do work that you hadn't authorized, and *then* ask you to pay for it. That's unbelievable.

The reasonable and fair thing to do is to accept their offer to talk about it when you get back. Then come home, put your stuff in your place, recover your keys and get them off of your property. Then refuse to pay or even discuss it for the reasons stated above.

I don't want to bum you out, but at this point I would start to be uncomfortable with letting these two people stay in my place for a month unsupervised.
posted by Poppa Bear at 1:42 PM on June 25, 2015 [10 favorites]


I just Googled [average cost for house sitting]. Here's the first result.
posted by amtho at 1:48 PM on June 25, 2015 [2 favorites]


I don't think these guys are on the up-and-up either and I'd be having someone local dropping by pretty soon if I were you. Whatever you do, ABSOLUTELY do not send them any money while you're away.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 1:54 PM on June 25, 2015 [3 favorites]


Jesus God no. They're lying. $100 gets you about 3 hrs of regular cleaning.

I truly hope that this isn't one of those things where a random stays in a place for long enough to be considered "tenants" who then become squatters you have to evict!
posted by tristeza at 1:56 PM on June 25, 2015


Response by poster: I would like to slow the shift towards "they are scamming you" answers with a few details. There are a few reasons they needed a place to stay in my area, and they are legitimate. Both are independent contractors in various industries, but particularly in the house organisation and event planning industries. I have references, LinkedIn profiles, etc. My feeling was that as home organisers, they probably are used to a higher standard of cleaning than I find necessary.
posted by guster4lovers at 2:00 PM on June 25, 2015


Five hours of cleaning for one person is $20 an hour. I'm not 100% sure of the current exchange rate, but I think that's about £15, which isn't much. For 2 people, that's $10/hr. Something fishy is going on here. Ask for a receipt, but do not part with any money. In fact, call the cleaning company while they're there, using the number from their website, NOT the number on the receipt and ask them what the cleaning actually entailed. Then watch the blood drain from their faces as they figure out that they've been caught scamming you.

Also, it's so incredibly rude to call someone else in like this. Were I in your cat-sitter's situation, I'd be concerned about inviting a friend round for coffee. This is a replace-my-scarf level of rudeness.
posted by Solomon at 2:00 PM on June 25, 2015 [9 favorites]


Eh, often cleaning companies will do really cheap deals for first-time customers. I can believe they hired someone to 'deep clean' for $100. (They probably didn't do a very thorough job though.)

$100 seemed reasonable for the size of the area, though I did think it was odd for multiple people to clean for five hours for that price.

After some googling, Angie's List says a deep cleaning can cost $200-$400, so I'm changing my verdict to plausible on the cost of cleaning for the area cleaned, especially if they may be accounting for splitting the cost.

That said, still no. Ask them to email you a copy of the receipt and tell them you'll discuss it when you get back. I could see eating $100 if it made them happy and you agreed to it beforehand, but still no way what with them doing this unilaterally and then asking for the money.
posted by cmoj at 2:02 PM on June 25, 2015 [1 favorite]


Yeah ok re your update, but still, what the fuck. That is presumptuous beyond belief. They are offering a service, and they're staying for free, and it's your house, and what the fuck. Who do they think they are? Can you pay a neighbour to come by?
posted by cotton dress sock at 2:02 PM on June 25, 2015 [5 favorites]


I just Googled [average cost for house sitting]. Here's the first result.

This couple agreed to stay there for free. The OP does not need to retroactively pay them because they are now demanding it. A free place to stay in a desirable city was apparently considered payment enough by both parties.
posted by showbiz_liz at 2:03 PM on June 25, 2015 [22 favorites]


Five hours of cleaning for one person is $20 an hour. I'm not 100% sure of the current exchange rate, but I think that's about £15, which isn't much. For 2 people, that's $10/hr.

This is a separate issue of shittyness, but $10 an hour would be a fairly standard wage for manual labor in the US. Even in California, minimum wage is $9 an hour.
posted by cmoj at 2:07 PM on June 25, 2015 [1 favorite]


LOL!! They are crazy.

Email or text them and say, "Sorry, but the staying-for-free deal was for the apartment as-is. And I had already cleaned it myself. The cost of the deep clean is on you."
posted by amaire at 2:07 PM on June 25, 2015 [1 favorite]


I have housesat/petsat for people for free multiple times. You've already made the agreement; you offered them a place to stay in exchange for the catsitting. When you talk to them, be firm on this, and emphasize the value of your apartment. You have zero responsibility to pay, and you shouldn't.
posted by three_red_balloons at 2:08 PM on June 25, 2015 [3 favorites]


Personally, since they said they could talk to you about it when you returned, I would wait; no need to anger crazy people who are still in your home and taking care of your pets.
posted by three_red_balloons at 2:09 PM on June 25, 2015 [38 favorites]


I'm going to add a "not crazy" vote - if they just got the carpet cleaned, it could have been $100. I know that's not what most people imagine when they hear "deep clean", but the cats, etc., make me think that a carpet cleaning might have made sense. Also, if there was a cat smell, the odds are that the OP woudn't notice it. Additionally, the visitors might not have noticed it earlier -- their visit may have been brief, they might not have spent much time in the affected rooms, the windows might have been open if the weather were cooler, etc.
posted by amtho at 2:12 PM on June 25, 2015 [1 favorite]


I just paid to have a deep cleaning of a kitchen done. I hired a local cleaning service that I found on Google. It was $70 and I tipped $30. They really got everything; it was a team of three people and it was done in an hour. They washed the counters, the floors, the window and sill, the inside of all cabinets, the fridge, the stovetop and inside of the oven, they tidied up, etc. So if your housesitters asked for one or two very specific small jobs from a company that sends multiple people, I can see how it would cost $100.

While I think that what they did was boundary crossing and rude, I don't think they're scamming you. But if you give in and send them $100 right now, this will show them that your set boundaries are not necessarily solid and that they can push you into doing things they want. Like perhaps letting them stay longer, or deciding that they want to be paid for some reason, or whatever. Plus, it reinforces to them that their really crummy behavior in this situation was fine. I can't believe they just had people in your home cleaning without your permission and that they expected you to pay for it. That is ridiculous, and they should know it's ridiculous. They are either boundary-crossers who have just begun trying to push yours; or, they are willfully ignorant of polite behavior. Either way, not great. Sorry you have to deal with this.

Wait to talk about it until you get home; just don't engage with the topic further now via text or any other medium. When you get back, say that you are sorry, but it won't be possible for you to pay them the $100. Be firm and polite and don't waver. You do not need to give them any explanations or reasons as to why you can't give them the $100. You're sorry; it just won't be possible. Thank them for their time and never call them again.
posted by sockermom at 2:16 PM on June 25, 2015 [6 favorites]


This really does seem presumptuous of them... I have house/cat-sat/watered plants for free in exchange for a few weeks in a desirable area, and even when the apartment in question has been basically a DISASTER AREA I would never have considered having someone in to clean without the permission of the householder, never mind asking them to pay for the cleaning. To me, putting up with other people's standards of housekeeping is part of the deal when housesitting. And your house-sitters saw/smelled/whatevered the apartment before they moved in.

When you come back, tell them you're sorry but you won't be able to reimburse them for the cleaning. And feel ZERO guilt.
posted by mskyle at 2:16 PM on June 25, 2015 [8 favorites]


I sublet my apartment to someone once, years ago now, who had similarly seen the place beforehand and been okay with it, then called me up after she'd moved in to complain about needing to clean it for (reasons). She wanted a reduction in the (already reduced rent). I said no, she got over it and life went on.

That is pretty much exactly what should happen here (although I agree that you should wait until you're home and they're out to deliver the "no"). Unless you went and, I dunno, let your cats and friends and family all crap on the floors after they'd first seen the place, there is just no freaking way it's reasonable for them to expect you to pay for the privilege of having unvetted strangers come into YOUR home to perform actions you neither needed nor wanted.

"No" is the way to go here.
posted by DingoMutt at 2:19 PM on June 25, 2015 [4 favorites]


OK, well, with your update I guess probably they're not outright scamming you. However, the fact that a good chunk of the thread immediately went to seriously nefarious places should be an indicator to you of just how far beyond "standard" their behavior goes.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 2:21 PM on June 25, 2015 [8 favorites]


Do this: Agree to the deep cleaning. But also insist that they pay for a deep cleaning when they leave.
posted by Mac-Expert at 2:35 PM on June 25, 2015 [5 favorites]


The fair thing here would have been for them to raise their concerns about the condition of your place before agreeing to house-sit, and they had a chance to do so. You don't change the terms of a deal in mid-course or after.
posted by adamrice at 2:40 PM on June 25, 2015 [6 favorites]


If I needed a place to stay, I would have cleaned your place, taken care of the cats, AND asked if there was anything I else I could take care of in exchange for one month rent.

Geesh! Some people!
posted by she's not there at 3:39 PM on June 25, 2015 [10 favorites]


I think you urgently need to get one of your friends to pay a visit. Unannounced. If there's some way you can get a key to said friend without going through these petsitters, do so.

Now that these people's honesty is in question, the FIRST thing I would do is establish that your pets are safe.

I also would not question the charges now and would wait until your return to dispute the charge. These people are inappropriate, possibly dishonest, and they have your cats.
posted by tel3path at 3:44 PM on June 25, 2015 [6 favorites]


Any chance you can ask a close friend who has been to your house a few times to be real with you and state whether your house smelled like cat and whether they thought it was dirty?

I've been to plenty of houses of friends and people with cats and the level of cleanliness was not up to snuff for me. But they were perfectly ok with it themselves and truly thought it was clean. I think you need an opinion of someone who loves you and can be honest.

The answer may persuade you to pay for cleaning or tell these folks to get bent.
posted by vivzan at 4:07 PM on June 25, 2015 [1 favorite]


This is ludicrous on their part. When you get back, tell them you will give them the hundred bucks if they pay you the market rate for an extended stay hotel in your area.
posted by winna at 4:16 PM on June 25, 2015 [2 favorites]


Just so you know, I live in a really expensive area and people here rent out their homes for about 4 to 6k a month during peak vacation months. They occasionally offer a rent discount if guests agree to care for pets. Under no circumstances is anyone paying for "house sitting". Their offer of "free" house sitting is a load; in the age of the share economy, an apartment in an expensive area is a commodity. They undoubtedly know this and are just taking fuller advantage of you.

Wait and don't pay them in person when their free stay at your expensive apartment is at an end. What nerve.
posted by TryTheTilapia at 4:33 PM on June 25, 2015 [13 favorites]


Did they spill red wine on the carpet, got a carpet cleaner to quickly come and clean it and now charging you for it?
posted by artdrectr at 4:39 PM on June 25, 2015 [8 favorites]


I suppose I can imagine myself trying to settle in and saying "wow, there's more cat hair around than I'd noticed before" or "gee, I guess I didn't take a close enough look at the bathroom and it needs some attention". I can even imagine making the decision to hire cleaners to bring the place up to my standard of cleanliness if I were going to be there for an extended stay.

But I would understand that to do so would be for my own personal comfort and enjoyment of the property during my stay. I cannot imagine under the circumstances that you've described asking the person I'm renting from to turn around and pay for something when it was my decision to have the work done. That's a level of hubris that I can't relate to.

Now, other than this issue, is there the possibility that you would ever have them cat-sit again? Let's say your choices are these people, or boarding your cats. One way or the other you are still going to have to pay your $2K rent, so take their free stay out of the equation. They are saving you the cost of boarding, and presumably providing peace of mind with regard to the welfare of your cats. So what is that worth to you? It might be worth the hundred bucks, if you ever thought of asking for their help again. Of course, I expect you would go into any future agreement with the explicit understanding that you won't be paying any additional costs.

If you get to a point where you would never ask for their help again, I would probably tell them, once you're home, that it was their decision to spend the money for their own comfort level, and sorry, no, reimbursement we not be possible.
posted by vignettist at 4:45 PM on June 25, 2015 [1 favorite]


Whatever their reasons, this was completely uncalled for. They are at best entitled douchenozzles.

I would recommend emailing them back to ask for a receipt but not otherwise engaging with them regarding this issue. Call the cleaning company to verify that it actually happened and see what the circumstances in the apartment were; I'm also suspicious that they might have caused a mess and are trying to pin the cost on you. Refuse to pay when you get back and find someone else to look after your cats.
posted by fox problems at 4:48 PM on June 25, 2015


Housesitting is a job. It's work. They're not invited guests, they're providing a service to you. Yes, even in Northern California.

When asking someone to housesit, you either 1) pay them for it or 2) make a mutual agreement where it's rent-free in exchange for taking care of your pets, picking up the mail, general stuff like that.

There is a reasonable expectation of cleanliness in the latter agreement. You're not the one doing them a favor, it's the other way around. For example, petsitting in the Bay Area for three cats is $42/per visit. Yes, it's expensive to rent here, but housesitting is a mutual agreement and it's possible that the OP isn't fulfilling her end by providing a clean home.
posted by vivzan at 5:14 PM on June 25, 2015 [2 favorites]


They were previously staying with friends or in hotels.

I disagree with the arguments above that they are providing a service to you. You are providing a service to THEM, and it's worth a lot more than the "service" they're providing to you which is the suit and tie version of a hobo that washes your windshield with newspaper and demands cash. TryTheTilapia is 100% correct above.

IF, and only IF you were charging them rent in some way they would have an argument for a discount simply for housesitting and taking care of your cat and stuff. If that had been brought up during the negotiations it would have been a legitimate point. If you had agreed to the cleaning that would be a legitimate point.

The thing is, they aren't asking for money for catsitting and housesitting. They're asking for money for cleaning, which you didn't want. The agreed value of free housing minus catsitting was handshaked to be zero ALREADY. Now they're trying to change the deal because they want some walking around money.

Either they just want some cash, or they have unreasonable standards and no common decency.


I legitimately would not trust these people in my house. This isn't MeFi story time, but i have NEVER EVER EVER had a situation like this go smoothly after something dumb like this came up, and i've had expensive things stolen or held hostage afterwards more than once.

I seriously see this as some kind of thing like, business is hard for them right now and they're just shaking you down. I know plenty of people who are contractors monkeybarring between gigs and they all have their own fucking houses. The fact that they, as a couple, have just been bouncing around like this while "employed" makes me wonder not only how much they're actually applying themselves to their work for living expenses and not just party money, but also just... i don't know, their general trustworthiness.

It sounds like you don't even really know these people and you're giving them a megadeal. They should be sucking your fucking metaphorical wang. The fact that they're here and have sort of run out of friend-rope makes me think that either they want to have a nice place to themselves for a month without paying rent(and hope to continue that deal somewhere else) or have burned previous bridges, or just, something not-great like that.


On preview, would it be possible to talk to the people they were most recently staying with without them involved? Like on the phone or something, and not on their phone they walked over to that person while they're right there?

I'm just extremely suspicious of their track record the more i reflect on this. At absolute best they're uncouth assholes. At worst, i feel like you're getting set up for a gigantic headache.

My friend had her cat stolen in a dumb situation when someone was convinced she "owed them money" who had been staying there. It took the police, court, and several months to resolve. I'm really paranoid for you, and i don't think it's unfounded at all.
posted by emptythought at 5:47 PM on June 25, 2015 [13 favorites]


Nope sorry, vivsan, not necessarily. Anecdata: my house-sitters are paying me $100 a week plus bills to stay in my fab place in a great area. Housesitting is negotiated, not set in concrete as a 'house owner is doing house sitter a favour/ house sitter is doing house owner a favour' binary. It was negotiated in the visit the OP scheduled with these people. That is when they should have brought up this issue, not after having organised it and paid for it.

Being asked to stump up $100 for a deep clean would be a non-starter for me, and many others above. House-sitters are rated on various sites, if they are professional, and this little adventure would cost them a bad review or few stars from me. It's audacious and scammy. But, as suggested above, take them at their word that you'll chat about it when you get back. If they insist on payment [how? why? who knows, but whatever] then as it happens, paying for a deep clean on departure from an extended house-sitting gig is pretty standard. You could offer to waive that if they insist.
posted by honey-barbara at 5:48 PM on June 25, 2015 [6 favorites]


To answer the questions: you have zero responsibility to pay them a cent.

(If their cleanliness standards are sooooooo high and this is soooooooo important to them, why didn't they take a closer look at things when they first saw the place?)

How to be fair and reasonable in handling this? They did say they'd discuss it when you return so it seems like you can leave it aside for now.

When you're back, politely tell them it won't be possible. If they push it, politely let them know that you have nothing more to say about it. If they want to push it further, I hope you won't be shy in telling them they need to leave your apartment.

Is it possible to have someone with you when you address this?

(I wouldn't think you were crazy or paranoid if you change the lock or locks after you come back.)
posted by ambient2 at 6:27 PM on June 25, 2015


Be careful, and check ALL your valuables (including the "hidden" things) as soon as you get home. Our last petsitter "friend" decided he deserved more money and pawned some of our stuff while we are gone. It's nearly a year later and we are still discovering rarely-used items that are missing.
posted by belladonna at 6:28 PM on June 25, 2015 [5 favorites]


Lots of strong emotions here! I disagree with those who seem to suggest that you have done *them* a favor, or that it is clear that they are scamming you. Even if you paid the $100, you'd be coming out way ahead of the going rate for pet sitting. Pet sitting is work, and if you hired a professional for overnight visits, it would be at least $45.00 a night in an urban area.

That said, they shouldn't have sprung this on you after the agreement was reached. Even if your home is unusually dirty, they had the option to raise the issue when you first met. Unless they weren't allowed access to your full apartment during the visit.

I think, morally speaking, you could pay or not pay; whatever you do, for the sake of your pets, don't dispute this until you return.
posted by girl flaneur at 6:33 PM on June 25, 2015 [1 favorite]


When asking someone to housesit, you either 1) pay them for it or 2) make a mutual agreement where it's rent-free in exchange for taking care of your pets, picking up the mail, general stuff like that.

Yes, and 2) was precisely the deal they made. If they were not happy with that arrangement, they were free to decline it. Having accepted it, they're not entitled to ask for an additional $100 that's purportedly for a cleaning service the OP didn't even request. And they're sure as hell not entitled, under any circumstances, to act as the homeowners, which is what they did when they hired a cleaner because the place wasn't up to their standards.

I'm really kinda poleaxed that anyone seriously believes this behavior is A-OK and that OP is somehow the unreasonable one. Jeez.
posted by holborne at 6:34 PM on June 25, 2015 [18 favorites]


Apologies for my earlier response. Your question rendered me incoherent (more so than usual) . If it indeed took some time for them to decide that your place was not to their standards (again, seriously!?), the reasonable and fair thing for them to do would have been to ask for permission to hire a cleaner, maybe the very day they "settled in". (Or to vacuum.) It wasn't in the original agreement; the money you'd have saved compared to any counterfactual situation is irrelevant. You're under no kind of obligation to pay for this.
posted by cotton dress sock at 7:07 PM on June 25, 2015 [4 favorites]


This is straight up crazy; crazy enough that I would worry for your pets and your valuables - these people seem to have no sense of social norms, or shame. Just tell them you'll discuss it when you get home, and when you get home (after you check and make sure that your stuff is in place) tell them to take a hike. They were not authorized to hire cleaners for your home - they were not authorized to let strangers in at all; much less to run up cleaning bills you never agreed to. What nonsense.
posted by fingersandtoes at 7:31 PM on June 25, 2015 [5 favorites]


Hmm. I was initially in the "this is outlandish" camp, especially since they went ahead without hearing back from you, but I've house-sat at ridiculously gross places (not saying yours is), so I can imagine a situation where one would be warranted. (If you described issues like a moldy shower curtain, an area of the carpet where the cat tends to pee, etc., then I'd lean toward paying them, but it doesn't sound like that.)

Still, I think the way I'd handle it is, if I came home and felt like "wow, this place is so much cleaner than when I left," then I'd either offer to split it or pay the whole thing, depending on how intense that feeling was. But if I felt it wasn't much better, I'd probably say that things seemed basically the same as I left them and I don't see that the cleaning had much lasting benefit.
posted by slidell at 8:17 PM on June 25, 2015


I live in the Bay area and sometimes pet-sit in peoples' houses. I have done this both for money and in exchange for a place to live. It is totally normal to take care of a low-maintenance animal in exchange for a place to live, if it is for a significant length of time (a month or more) and you don't otherwise have another place to call your own in the area. I have done this exact thing twice (maintenance cat, nice area, one month gig), and both times I felt like the person was doing me a favor because otherwise I would have been paying rent somewhere. (I did this in between leaving one permanent living space and moving to another.) In fact, I often see posts on Craigslist offering reduced--not free!--rent in exchange for taking care of a cat.

I also have paying petsitting gigs. What distinguishes these is generally one or more of the following:
1) I am not staying at the person's house; I'm making time to stop by every day to take care of the animal
2) It's a short-term gig (a few days, a week, not long enough to settle in)
3) I am still paying rent on my own room or apartment in the area
4) The animal requires a lot of care (like, say, a dog that can't be alone for more than a couple hours at a stretch.)

But in a way none of this matters, because they agreed to the arrangement you have between you and they saw the place before agreeing to it. Unless you kept saying "the house will be much much cleaner when you actually move in!" or something while giving them the tour of the house, their demand is ridiculous.
posted by needs more cowbell at 8:48 PM on June 25, 2015 [4 favorites]


The fact that surprise, they already had it done, is what seals it for me. They are not tenants and had absolutely no right to let people into your home for services without asking you.

If they are that picky about cleanliness, it was their responsibility to thoroughly vet the house before they agreed to housesit, or to clean it themselves. I think housesitting for a month and living in said house carries the expectation that you may need to mop or clean the shower.

I would absolutely insist on seeing a receipt and/or contacting the cleaner, here. If it was just some rando they hired for a benjamin, hell no.
posted by nakedmolerats at 5:40 AM on June 26, 2015


My script would be "Sure, we can discuss this when I get back" (with no intention of paying, as many others have said) "...but please don't make any more expenditures with my authorization first. Thanks :)"

If you delay the conversation, you don't want to give them the impression that you are ok with how this went down; you don't think they're scamming you, but who knows what else they may think is necessary before you return.
posted by Laura in Canada at 6:37 AM on June 26, 2015 [6 favorites]


Whatever you do, don't say no until you return. These crazy people are in your home right now, in charge of your precious pets.


Wait till you return to tell them Hell No.
posted by RichardHenryYarbo at 8:03 AM on June 26, 2015 [2 favorites]


They had a chance to see the house and if they had a problem with the condition, should have said so then. They agreed to take care of your cats in exchange for a place to stay. Done. End of story.
posted by theora55 at 8:36 AM on June 26, 2015 [2 favorites]


I think someone may have mentioned this, but I was thinking about it last night, and you may want to spend a little time checking tenancy laws where your place is. Is it possible that after a month they could be considered tenants and them spending money on the place could legally strengthen that claim, thus making it an eviction process to get them to leave? They could be counting on it taking several months to kick them out, then an ensuing process of suing/small claims court that you, someone with (the extent of which or their knowledge of which I have no idea) "autoimmune, chronic pain and motor neuron issues" might have trouble mounting?

I accept the base plausibility of the cost they claim to have incurred, but as a landlord, there's something about the whole thing that makes my legal-hassle senses tingle. Their actions seem calculated.
posted by cmoj at 8:59 AM on June 26, 2015 [6 favorites]


It has been brought to my attention that California is indeed a 30-day tenancy state, and I see that the law stated in the DCA Who is a "Landlord and Who is a "Tenant" pamphlet doesn't seem to specifically cover this situation, placing your case in what seems to be a gray area. Since the status of this particular housing arrangement may be in question, both the act of authorizing work by a cleaning crew (as a tenant could!) and the act of attempting to obtain your tacit approval of them doing so by paying for it or even simply not kicking them out immediately could be an attempt to establish themselves in the eyes of the law as tenants.

Do you even plan to be gone for 30 days? Did you sign anything with these people that includes dates and responsibilities? I assume you would have mentioned that if you had, and I don't know how much that would protect you anyway.

I am not a lawyer in any way, and I know nothing about California tenant law precedents, but this is colored very much like a hassle that you do not want any part of.

Best case scenario, these people are somewhat clueless and entitled. Worst case scenario, it takes months of money, paperwork, and courts to get them out of your house, followed by more months of money, court, and paperwork if you should attempt to recover compensation.

I'm a little paranoid myself because I've been through a similar nightmare, but I don't think I'm overreacting given the information available to me. I know that $100 being a notable ask on your budget makes the situation that much more difficult, but if I were dealing with this situation, I'd do whatever I had to to get them out well in advance of 30 days to head off any ambiguity. Come home early, find someone else to come in for the
last week. Anything. I'd be very sorry to roust them if they really were on the level, but let me reiterate that you do not want to deal with the potential legal situation here. Do not give them the chance to attain tenant status.
posted by cmoj at 12:53 PM on June 26, 2015 [9 favorites]


To add to what cmoj says, what does your lease say about letting someone stay more than X days? I've never signed(nor, when my parents were landlords, did they ever give out) a lease that said someone could stay for more than one or two weeks exactly for that reason.

Assuming the shitty outcome they suggested comes to pass, your landlord might go "oh FUCK no" and kick you out too for violating your lease by letting them stay both past the agreed upon time limit, but also attaining tenant status(which would also be the landlords problem, obviously).

I'm not really on team "they're trying to pull a stay 30 days hotel squat", but this isn't a hypothetical situation.

I do think you're about to get fucked though, i'm just not sure how. I really hope you post an update later that nothing bad happened other than them screaming at you or being passive aggressive when you come home and don't pay them(PLEASE don't pay them, no matter how much they huff and puff and try and blow the house down or how bad you feel/are guilted).
posted by emptythought at 2:26 PM on June 26, 2015 [6 favorites]


This is dodgy as hell and in your position I would be extremely concerned for the well-being and safety of my cats. And $100 is such a weird figure for the amount of work that allegedly occurred.
posted by turbid dahlia at 3:55 PM on June 29, 2015 [2 favorites]


Actually, that's a really good point too. My friend used to work for a cleaning company that did everything from bog standard vacuum jobs to basically the equivalent of high end car detailing at million dollar condos. There is NO WAY that having a company come out and clean cost $100. That's the entire reason services like this even had room to exist, because there's a price umbrella.

This sort of deep cleaning they described would cost more than $100. And even if it was closer to a hundred, it would be like, $122.74 or something because taxes/fees/etc.(ignoring the fact it would never be that cheap, but you get my point)

I didn't even think of this before because i was so weirded out by the rest of the whole thing, but it absolutely bolsters the argument that it's a shakedown/power play.
posted by emptythought at 3:22 PM on June 30, 2015 [1 favorite]


Response by poster: In case anyone is checking back with this, here's an update.

I got home today and the house was clean and the cats seemed okay.

No mention was made of the money, and they have left the area already.

So this is over, thankfully, and I appreciate all the advice you guys had.
posted by guster4lovers at 1:00 AM on July 20, 2015 [9 favorites]


Great news, glad everything ended well. Out of curiosity, is there any evidence the apartmetn has been deep cleaned?
posted by DarlingBri at 5:11 AM on July 20, 2015 [2 favorites]


Response by poster: Well, the bathtub looks like it was cleaned more thoroughly than I left it. The kitchen was also mostly clean, but most of my appliances were in the little kitchen closet or in the cabinets above the fridge. It was kind of weird. Only the microwave was still out on the counter.

But honestly, it's hard to tell whether they cleaned the few places it wasn't fully spotless or if they had someone in to clean and it is showing the wear of them living here for a month.

They also took my 3 cats from 5 litter boxes to 2 and cleaned the rest and left them outside. Ironically, it smelled WAY more like cat pee than I've ever experienced in the four years I've lived here. And I do periodically leave for the weekend, so I've had time to acclimatise before.
posted by guster4lovers at 5:14 PM on July 26, 2015


Honestly, i'd go through pretty much everything in my house. Especially with the appliances and stuff moved. I'd look through everything and do a general inventory and be extremely concerned that small, vaguely valuable, and buried and somewhat forgotten things might have been taken.

I know this might seem overly paranoid, but i do think it's pretty weird that they demanded then and then just disappeared super quickly without bringing it up.

Are you sure your grandmothers ring isn't gone? or something like that? Thats the sort of thing i'm getting at.

It's happened to me before.
posted by emptythought at 3:54 PM on July 27, 2015 [2 favorites]


Ironically, it smelled WAY more like cat pee than I've ever experienced in the four years I've lived here

I'm guessing your cats responded to the lack of facilities by pissing in many new and exciting places.
posted by poffin boffin at 4:12 PM on July 27, 2015 [3 favorites]


Response by poster: I still haven't found anything missing, and I've gone through a lot. I think we're okay there. I'm watching online accounts etc.

What does surprise me is the stuff that's gone now. A full bottle of dishwasher soap. A full bottle of regular dish soap. A full bottle of Tide detergent. A brand new mega-pack of toilet paper and paper towels. A full bottle of hand soap in the bathroom. All the cleaning products I had are also gone. Several half -boxes of trash bags.

Some of that stuff is understandable. But the fact that all of it was drained and none of it replaced...irritating.

They've texted to "check in" but I haven't responded.
posted by guster4lovers at 12:08 AM on August 6, 2015


yeah, that's not stuff they used in "cleaning" your house. that's stuff they stole from you.
posted by poffin boffin at 10:50 AM on August 6, 2015 [6 favorites]


Good news! I'm so glad I, and most everyone else was mostly wrong!
posted by cmoj at 12:53 PM on August 9, 2015 [1 favorite]


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