How seriously to take horrible new mold problem at work?
June 10, 2015 9:39 AM Subscribe
There is a very intense mold smell that has appeared out of nowhere throughout my workplace, no one can locate the origin, and even with all doors and windows open, the situation is off-the-charts terrible. I endured it for some hours, but couldn't manage it any longer than that.
I didn't want to be a troublemaker yesterday, so I endured 4 hours of it, until my lungs felt like they were filled with sand, and I had two deep black circles under my burning eyes. I finally went home halfway through the workday, and then called out today.
I have always been very allergic to mold, and even had to be moved to a different, less-humid region of the country as a child, solely because the allergy was so severe. (Debilitating relentless headaches and sinus issues, etc., not something directly life-threatening like asthma.)
I have no idea how to handle this new development. The company is very small, the owner is never present in the office, has a very strong profits-over-people perspective, is non-proactive on things like this, and he is the only one with the power to properly address it. The owner had another employee come poke around halfheartedly yesterday looking for the origin, and that seems to be the extent of things so far. (Personally, I suspect it is in the walls, or in the HVAC system, or both, just because it is everywhere throughout our two floor office and part of the adjacent warehouse.)
I don't see this being resolved soon, and I feel terrible making my coworkers cover my work in my absence. It is a huge, huge problem in a tiny office like ours.
My main questions are:
Is 'new' mold (as opposed to long-standing mold) basically benign? Is it possible a moldy environment is not really a health danger, assuming it is not a specifically 'toxic mold'? Should I suck it up and go in anyway? (Every cell in my body is screaming NO!) Do I have any legal protection (NYC)? If I am fired for refusing to come into a profoundly moldy workplace, would I likely be eligible for unemployment?
The situation feels so extreme, and I felt so insane for even being there for 10 minutes yesterday, let alone the four hours I stuck around... that I feel like I'd risk anything to not put myself in that situation again, but I would love to know if anyone has any input at all re: these questions, or if anyone has faced a situation like this. I have no savings, live paycheck to paycheck, and actually have a semi-decent wage all things considered (thanks to my manager advocating for me, and I don't want to cause problems for him either.) So, on the one hand, this is all a big risk, and on the other hand, my body is like 'I don't care about your thoughts, you are staying far away from that place for now.
I don't want to be all 'woo-woo' and 'toxic environment' and all that... but it absolutely does not feel healthy, and yet I cannot take multiple days off work without serious repercussions, and I am really torn about what to do if this does not magically resolve on its own.Thanks for any info/ideas/thoughts!
I didn't want to be a troublemaker yesterday, so I endured 4 hours of it, until my lungs felt like they were filled with sand, and I had two deep black circles under my burning eyes. I finally went home halfway through the workday, and then called out today.
I have always been very allergic to mold, and even had to be moved to a different, less-humid region of the country as a child, solely because the allergy was so severe. (Debilitating relentless headaches and sinus issues, etc., not something directly life-threatening like asthma.)
I have no idea how to handle this new development. The company is very small, the owner is never present in the office, has a very strong profits-over-people perspective, is non-proactive on things like this, and he is the only one with the power to properly address it. The owner had another employee come poke around halfheartedly yesterday looking for the origin, and that seems to be the extent of things so far. (Personally, I suspect it is in the walls, or in the HVAC system, or both, just because it is everywhere throughout our two floor office and part of the adjacent warehouse.)
I don't see this being resolved soon, and I feel terrible making my coworkers cover my work in my absence. It is a huge, huge problem in a tiny office like ours.
My main questions are:
Is 'new' mold (as opposed to long-standing mold) basically benign? Is it possible a moldy environment is not really a health danger, assuming it is not a specifically 'toxic mold'? Should I suck it up and go in anyway? (Every cell in my body is screaming NO!) Do I have any legal protection (NYC)? If I am fired for refusing to come into a profoundly moldy workplace, would I likely be eligible for unemployment?
The situation feels so extreme, and I felt so insane for even being there for 10 minutes yesterday, let alone the four hours I stuck around... that I feel like I'd risk anything to not put myself in that situation again, but I would love to know if anyone has any input at all re: these questions, or if anyone has faced a situation like this. I have no savings, live paycheck to paycheck, and actually have a semi-decent wage all things considered (thanks to my manager advocating for me, and I don't want to cause problems for him either.) So, on the one hand, this is all a big risk, and on the other hand, my body is like 'I don't care about your thoughts, you are staying far away from that place for now.
I don't want to be all 'woo-woo' and 'toxic environment' and all that... but it absolutely does not feel healthy, and yet I cannot take multiple days off work without serious repercussions, and I am really torn about what to do if this does not magically resolve on its own.Thanks for any info/ideas/thoughts!
This post was deleted for the following reason: poster's request -- cortex
First question: Are you sure this smell is actually mold? We've had a couple Mystery Smells at my office that ended up being something different. At least one of them was a dead ringer for mildew (to me at least) but ended up being the result of a household solvent spill.
Second question: Who owns your building? If it's your company (or the folks who own your company), that may not help. But if the building is owned by some other party, it may be easier to escalate to the landlord.
Are there any other coworkers who agree with you that this is unacceptable? Presenting a united front will increase your chances of getting this successfully resolved.
As far as health risks go -- it depends on a whole lot of factors, including what type of mold is involved and whether you are a sensitive individual. (Sounds like you are.) You may be able to mitigate the health impacts resulting from allergic response to this somewhat by using an antihistamine and steroid nasal spray (if you don't use these already) and an air purifier. However, these will only help so much.
Finally, I would note that you have the advantage of living in NYC, which is one of the few US cities with actual mold guidelines. I'm sure calling 311 can give you more information about your options in this situation.
posted by pie ninja at 9:52 AM on June 10, 2015
Second question: Who owns your building? If it's your company (or the folks who own your company), that may not help. But if the building is owned by some other party, it may be easier to escalate to the landlord.
Are there any other coworkers who agree with you that this is unacceptable? Presenting a united front will increase your chances of getting this successfully resolved.
As far as health risks go -- it depends on a whole lot of factors, including what type of mold is involved and whether you are a sensitive individual. (Sounds like you are.) You may be able to mitigate the health impacts resulting from allergic response to this somewhat by using an antihistamine and steroid nasal spray (if you don't use these already) and an air purifier. However, these will only help so much.
Finally, I would note that you have the advantage of living in NYC, which is one of the few US cities with actual mold guidelines. I'm sure calling 311 can give you more information about your options in this situation.
posted by pie ninja at 9:52 AM on June 10, 2015
Go to a doctor and get current documentation confirming your severe mold allergy.
After that.... I know you have a range of options, some of them include seeking the advice of a lawyer, filing appropriate complaints.
There are off the shelf mold tests, but I think you need a sample from the source. Mold is taken kinda seriously, so for sure you have protections. I just don't know how you invoke these.
I will say one thing.... The mold was in the air before you could smell it.
As a short term fix, you should get a doctor prescribed antihistamine and go back to work.
posted by jbenben at 9:56 AM on June 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
After that.... I know you have a range of options, some of them include seeking the advice of a lawyer, filing appropriate complaints.
There are off the shelf mold tests, but I think you need a sample from the source. Mold is taken kinda seriously, so for sure you have protections. I just don't know how you invoke these.
I will say one thing.... The mold was in the air before you could smell it.
As a short term fix, you should get a doctor prescribed antihistamine and go back to work.
posted by jbenben at 9:56 AM on June 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
If it were me, I would not go in while the mold is an issue. This is a health hazard (as your body already demonstrated!), and your employer needs to do something about it ASAP.
I would bring it to the boss/owner's attention in writing and see how they respond -- odds are good you're not the only person this is bothering/affecting, but I would probably see a doctor and get documentation of that visit as well.
OSHA's site also contains information on how to report the situation to OSHA if needed, including the kinds of protections available to you (they will keep your name confidential, etc.) Of course, if you're the only one to complain to the boss & then OSHA gets in touch with them to follow up, that might out you -- but it is illegal (according to OSHA's website) to fire someone for raising workplace safety concerns. (I realize that that doesn't mean you wouldn't have an issue, but I would take that to mean that unemployment eligibility shouldn't be a concern.)
posted by dryad at 9:56 AM on June 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
I would bring it to the boss/owner's attention in writing and see how they respond -- odds are good you're not the only person this is bothering/affecting, but I would probably see a doctor and get documentation of that visit as well.
OSHA's site also contains information on how to report the situation to OSHA if needed, including the kinds of protections available to you (they will keep your name confidential, etc.) Of course, if you're the only one to complain to the boss & then OSHA gets in touch with them to follow up, that might out you -- but it is illegal (according to OSHA's website) to fire someone for raising workplace safety concerns. (I realize that that doesn't mean you wouldn't have an issue, but I would take that to mean that unemployment eligibility shouldn't be a concern.)
posted by dryad at 9:56 AM on June 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Just wanted to chime in and add that every single person in the office is suffering and quietly freaking out, rather than me being sensitive and detecting something subtle. The intensity is about equivalent to raw sewage pouring into the office, but it is mold rather than sewage.
posted by thegreatfleecircus at 10:14 AM on June 10, 2015
posted by thegreatfleecircus at 10:14 AM on June 10, 2015
How do you know its mold?
Could it be a dead animal in the walls instead of mold?
That could explain the sudden onset of a nasty smell with no obvious water damage or flood.
posted by bottlebrushtree at 10:21 AM on June 10, 2015 [2 favorites]
Could it be a dead animal in the walls instead of mold?
That could explain the sudden onset of a nasty smell with no obvious water damage or flood.
posted by bottlebrushtree at 10:21 AM on June 10, 2015 [2 favorites]
Came in to say what bottlebrushtree did. Dead does not always smell "dead."
posted by gnomeloaf at 10:28 AM on June 10, 2015
posted by gnomeloaf at 10:28 AM on June 10, 2015
Response by poster: Apologies for threadsitting, but we had a huge torrential rainstorm last week in NYC which flooded sections of Brooklyn and resulted in me wading through huge lakes of water in the street and receiving flood warning messages on my phone.
Also, the smell is in every corner, every spot, of a two story office building. So one animal dying in one wall or ceiling could not be producing that smell across the entire building and out into the warehouse too. I admit I am no expert, but I would be shocked if it was something other than mold.
posted by thegreatfleecircus at 10:30 AM on June 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
Also, the smell is in every corner, every spot, of a two story office building. So one animal dying in one wall or ceiling could not be producing that smell across the entire building and out into the warehouse too. I admit I am no expert, but I would be shocked if it was something other than mold.
posted by thegreatfleecircus at 10:30 AM on June 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
People who are not already sensitive to mold can develop problems by being exposed to it in a situation like yours. With your existing problem, going back into this environment may lead to serious health issues. Don't do it.
An option is to go to the hardware store and get a serious hazmat mask. It will need to protect your mouth, nose, and eyes. You can try that for a period at work, to see if the symptoms are reduced. You will find it is uncomfortable, however. In addition, you should change your clothes as you leave work, and wash them on hot. Open all of the doors and windows and vent with fans.
It sounds like the office space will have to be gutted, sanitized, and rebuilt. Your paperwork may be OK. The computers will have to be blown out to get the spores out.
The situation seriously sucks. I have been in moldy houses, post hurricanes, and the people living in them suffer.
posted by Midnight Skulker at 10:34 AM on June 10, 2015
An option is to go to the hardware store and get a serious hazmat mask. It will need to protect your mouth, nose, and eyes. You can try that for a period at work, to see if the symptoms are reduced. You will find it is uncomfortable, however. In addition, you should change your clothes as you leave work, and wash them on hot. Open all of the doors and windows and vent with fans.
It sounds like the office space will have to be gutted, sanitized, and rebuilt. Your paperwork may be OK. The computers will have to be blown out to get the spores out.
The situation seriously sucks. I have been in moldy houses, post hurricanes, and the people living in them suffer.
posted by Midnight Skulker at 10:34 AM on June 10, 2015
"...but it is mold rather than sewage."
Without identifying the source, you don't know that it is mold for sure. Your symptoms could be a reaction to the smell, but it could be from a different source. The source may/may not be a health hazard. We all just don't know!
So the smell is bad enough that all of the doors and windows are open, but not bad enough for anyone to do anything about it? This does not make sense.
Nthing to call 311. The fire department can also come out and do an immediate inspection (what if it is a chemical leak instead of mold? How could you know for sure without having the source identified??)
I'm not trying to argue with you. I don't think even a doctor could 100% confirm your reaction without knowing the source. I find it weird the solution is, "open the doors + windows and ignore it."
Mold so severe that the doors and windows need to be open should have been causing you symptoms long before it was detectable by smell. You really don't know what this is. Your description that no one in is addressing the problem doesn't quite track.
Try going back to work. Urge management to address the smell of it is still present.
You aren't even in the building right now. No source of any smell has been identified. I don't think you can solve this from the outside.
posted by jbenben at 10:35 AM on June 10, 2015 [2 favorites]
Without identifying the source, you don't know that it is mold for sure. Your symptoms could be a reaction to the smell, but it could be from a different source. The source may/may not be a health hazard. We all just don't know!
So the smell is bad enough that all of the doors and windows are open, but not bad enough for anyone to do anything about it? This does not make sense.
Nthing to call 311. The fire department can also come out and do an immediate inspection (what if it is a chemical leak instead of mold? How could you know for sure without having the source identified??)
I'm not trying to argue with you. I don't think even a doctor could 100% confirm your reaction without knowing the source. I find it weird the solution is, "open the doors + windows and ignore it."
Mold so severe that the doors and windows need to be open should have been causing you symptoms long before it was detectable by smell. You really don't know what this is. Your description that no one in is addressing the problem doesn't quite track.
Try going back to work. Urge management to address the smell of it is still present.
You aren't even in the building right now. No source of any smell has been identified. I don't think you can solve this from the outside.
posted by jbenben at 10:35 AM on June 10, 2015 [2 favorites]
Your statement about the rainstorm implies that a roof leak has taken place, or that water has intruded at ground level. It is in stored items on the floor, or in the wall insulation.
posted by Midnight Skulker at 10:37 AM on June 10, 2015
posted by Midnight Skulker at 10:37 AM on June 10, 2015
Ok, please don't take this the wrong way, but a quick look a your previous questions suggests that you have some anxiety issues that you are struggling with. I think it is important to point this out, not to undermine your complaints, but to suggest that your anxiety might be making the situation worse. Quite apart from the current issue with your office, you may want to consider getting some help with this. There will always be something that can trigger anxiety.
Obviously, if you have a mold allergy, you should do what you can to mitigate the effects of mold exposure on your health. But unless you have family that can support you financially, I'm not sure I would simply stop showing up to work. You don't even know if there is a mold issue in your office.
First, go to a doctor and get some allergy meds. There are many great allergy medicines out there, and it is good to show that you sought medical attention if it turns out there is a problem with the air quality in your office.
Second, write to your employer and ask for a professional assessment of your air quality. If you can, get your coworkers to sign your letter.
Third, ask your employer if you can work at least part time from home until this situation has been resolved. Try your best to remain calm and professional.
If your employer does nothing, you may consider bringing in other agencies. However, please be aware that this will take a *long* time to fix even if you can get your employer on board; if he needs to be coerced, it will take months and maybe years. You may decide it makes more sense to seek employment elsewhere (this obviously isn't just, but it may be prudent)
posted by girl flaneur at 10:37 AM on June 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
Obviously, if you have a mold allergy, you should do what you can to mitigate the effects of mold exposure on your health. But unless you have family that can support you financially, I'm not sure I would simply stop showing up to work. You don't even know if there is a mold issue in your office.
First, go to a doctor and get some allergy meds. There are many great allergy medicines out there, and it is good to show that you sought medical attention if it turns out there is a problem with the air quality in your office.
Second, write to your employer and ask for a professional assessment of your air quality. If you can, get your coworkers to sign your letter.
Third, ask your employer if you can work at least part time from home until this situation has been resolved. Try your best to remain calm and professional.
If your employer does nothing, you may consider bringing in other agencies. However, please be aware that this will take a *long* time to fix even if you can get your employer on board; if he needs to be coerced, it will take months and maybe years. You may decide it makes more sense to seek employment elsewhere (this obviously isn't just, but it may be prudent)
posted by girl flaneur at 10:37 AM on June 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
Does the owner of your workplace also own the building? In New York most people work out of buildings that are leased to the businesses. I would think that there would be an external property or building manager that would be interested that there is an environmental factor with their property that is creating problematic situation for the people inside of it.
I was once worked on the concourse level (read basement) of a midtown Manhattan office building. The restaurant above had a leak that created a mold problem - things escalated. It wasn't our boss that fixed the problem it was the property manager. Anyone in our office can independently contact building or property management to come take a look at a problem with the facility. There is generally a contact person for such a thing.
posted by rdnnyc at 10:42 AM on June 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
I was once worked on the concourse level (read basement) of a midtown Manhattan office building. The restaurant above had a leak that created a mold problem - things escalated. It wasn't our boss that fixed the problem it was the property manager. Anyone in our office can independently contact building or property management to come take a look at a problem with the facility. There is generally a contact person for such a thing.
posted by rdnnyc at 10:42 AM on June 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
Mod note: Couple comments removed. Asker, you're under no obligation to credit any particular advice in here, so if something strikes you as off the mark it's totally fine to roll your eyes and move on or whatever, but you need to not get in arguments with folks whose answers you dislike.
posted by cortex (staff) at 10:56 AM on June 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by cortex (staff) at 10:56 AM on June 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
Do seek advice from a lawyer or legal clinic. In my jurisdiction you could still get unemployment in this situation, but you need legal advice and you would need to be very careful about how you handle this. I don't know much about what the resources are near you, but I would suspect that there might be worker's advocates or an employment law clinic somewhere if you can't afford a lawyer. A brief consultation with a lawyer might also not be too expensive.
posted by lookoutbelow at 11:04 AM on June 10, 2015
posted by lookoutbelow at 11:04 AM on June 10, 2015
This thread is closed to new comments.
But maybe talk to your doctor and see if you can get some sort of documentation for mold's effects on your health? Good luck--this sounds like a really bad situation.
posted by rachelpapers at 9:50 AM on June 10, 2015