Benefits, to majority group members, of being in a minority at school?
January 31, 2015 8:48 AM
Do members of majority groups benefit from going to schools where they are in a minority?
I'm interested in research and information about benefits experienced by majority group members who attend schools where the majority of people do not share that background.
Primarily my question relates to ethnic and religious majorities, but I am also interested in material relating to other areas, like sexuality.
I am in Britain, and I'm mainly thinking about the experiences of white British children in schools with a majority of non-white children, but I am interested in broader answers to the question above the fold.
This pdf examines some related issues, but isn't sufficiently focused on the specific situation I'm interested in here.
I'm interested in research and information about benefits experienced by majority group members who attend schools where the majority of people do not share that background.
Primarily my question relates to ethnic and religious majorities, but I am also interested in material relating to other areas, like sexuality.
I am in Britain, and I'm mainly thinking about the experiences of white British children in schools with a majority of non-white children, but I am interested in broader answers to the question above the fold.
This pdf examines some related issues, but isn't sufficiently focused on the specific situation I'm interested in here.
I think it depends on what you mean by "benefit." I worked for years in communities where white kids made up a small percentage of the population. In terms of just straight-up practical benefits: at my last school, virtually all of the non-Hispanic white kids spoke Spanish. This is an awesome life skill that they just sort of picked up, because a lot of social interactions naturally happen in Spanish. (The kids who didn't pick it up - usually because they started at the school in 4th or 5th grade - tended to struggle socially, which is the flip side.) But I think this only worked because the non-Hispanic white kids were such a tiny minority - like 1 kid per class, at most - so they had to figure it out to fit in. I've also worked in communities where the white kids just isolate themselves if there's a critical mass.
I also worked for a while in a community where most of the kids were Muslim. I did feel like the white kids there (who were white Eastern European immigrants, mostly, so still maybe not the "majority group" you're looking for?) were a lot more sensitive to cultural differences than other kids I've worked with, in a way that was really positive for the community. Things like: they didn't just expect that everyone celebrated Christmas, or related to their families in the same way, or ate the same food. True story: once I was putting up a display of Halloween books and an eight-year-old white kid says, "But don't you think that will make all the kids who don't do Halloween feel left out?"
posted by goodbyewaffles at 9:42 AM on January 31, 2015
I also worked for a while in a community where most of the kids were Muslim. I did feel like the white kids there (who were white Eastern European immigrants, mostly, so still maybe not the "majority group" you're looking for?) were a lot more sensitive to cultural differences than other kids I've worked with, in a way that was really positive for the community. Things like: they didn't just expect that everyone celebrated Christmas, or related to their families in the same way, or ate the same food. True story: once I was putting up a display of Halloween books and an eight-year-old white kid says, "But don't you think that will make all the kids who don't do Halloween feel left out?"
posted by goodbyewaffles at 9:42 AM on January 31, 2015
I've been in this situation various ways, including having my (whiteish) kids enrolled in activities with almost all Indian families.
the advantages I've experienced to being a temporary minority are:
1. more likelihood of being exposed to something genuinely different because the people around you are in their element. So for instance, the Indian parents at my kid's almost-all-Indian dance classes are relaxed and chat with me about classes their kids take that I wouldn't have heard about otherwise, etc. And my girl gets to make friends she might not make in her own school.
2. a not entirely pleasant, but eye-opening, experience of what it feels like to be a visually obvious minority - to look different and sound different in an uncamouflagable way. I live every day as a religious and cultural minority in the US, but it really is a different experience to literally stand out in a crowd.
posted by fingersandtoes at 9:49 AM on January 31, 2015
the advantages I've experienced to being a temporary minority are:
1. more likelihood of being exposed to something genuinely different because the people around you are in their element. So for instance, the Indian parents at my kid's almost-all-Indian dance classes are relaxed and chat with me about classes their kids take that I wouldn't have heard about otherwise, etc. And my girl gets to make friends she might not make in her own school.
2. a not entirely pleasant, but eye-opening, experience of what it feels like to be a visually obvious minority - to look different and sound different in an uncamouflagable way. I live every day as a religious and cultural minority in the US, but it really is a different experience to literally stand out in a crowd.
posted by fingersandtoes at 9:49 AM on January 31, 2015
I am white and I went to a majority black school, in the south, in the 70's and 80's. I'm comfortable with all races and cultures but, I was raised like that so I don't think that counts as a benefit, as a few of my white friends who also attended the same school grew up to be racists.
There were plenty of drawbacks. There were only 3 date-able white boys in my class and they all had girlfriends so, I didn't date in high school (I've only ever been attracted to white men). My guidance counselor was hell bent on helping the black students and left the white students to fend for ourselves. I didn't hear about GPA until two weeks before graduation when they wanted me to calculate my GPA. If I would have had an active counselor or another adult that gave a damn, I could have been top of my class, instead, I was number 7. I was bullied by certain black students from time to time (one girl body slammed me) because I was white.
I suppose the only benefit that I can think of is that I sat next to really poor children. Kids that did not have running water and smelled bad. Kids that did not have enough to eat. This experience made me very compassionate and I don't judge people harshly because of it. I have a full understanding of what it means to be poor in America and a great admiration for the few who make it out of those circumstances.
posted by myselfasme at 9:53 AM on January 31, 2015
There were plenty of drawbacks. There were only 3 date-able white boys in my class and they all had girlfriends so, I didn't date in high school (I've only ever been attracted to white men). My guidance counselor was hell bent on helping the black students and left the white students to fend for ourselves. I didn't hear about GPA until two weeks before graduation when they wanted me to calculate my GPA. If I would have had an active counselor or another adult that gave a damn, I could have been top of my class, instead, I was number 7. I was bullied by certain black students from time to time (one girl body slammed me) because I was white.
I suppose the only benefit that I can think of is that I sat next to really poor children. Kids that did not have running water and smelled bad. Kids that did not have enough to eat. This experience made me very compassionate and I don't judge people harshly because of it. I have a full understanding of what it means to be poor in America and a great admiration for the few who make it out of those circumstances.
posted by myselfasme at 9:53 AM on January 31, 2015
I actually attended heterogeneous schools (to use their wording) in the very region mentioned in the article. I now teach at a diverse school, albeit in a different area, so I've continued that tradition: in fact, I could not see myself working at a school that isn't diverse because it's one of the most important things for me. (Of course, I realize the privilege in such statement since I'm white.)
Therefore, it's a bit hard to describe the benefits because they feel so obvious and inherent to me! (I'll work on specifics though.) It frustrates me when people talk about how they only want to send their kids to "good schools." First, let's face it, all parents want their children to attend a "good school." The speakers I'm thinking of are generally white and trying to say that they want their children to attend white, middle-class schools; they're not wanting to sound racist but there's so much latent racism there, it's undeniable! And, technically, it's "fine" if people want to segregate themselves in 2015 (not really) but, ultimately, I think they're missing out on benefits that are much greater.
Like the article says, people have greater "cultural competency" that often leads to a stronger moral compass, increased social skills, and real-world awareness (including that of white privilege.) Plus, there's the extra fun stuff that comes with sharing cultures: experiencing how birthdays are celebrated differently, hearing different languages, seeing how grandparents (for one example) are involved differently in different cultures.
The first diverse school I attended was via voluntary busing: my parents wanted us to get away from the horrible, conservative, so-called "good school" (that people moved across the street to attend?!) that we were going to. Chances are, a school that celebrates (versus just tolerates or worse) cultural diversity also is a more open place for people of different abilities, SES, genders identities, sexual orientations, and more. They're liked more open to trying new technology, teaching methodologies, and more. Education feels more student-centered and experimental (in a good way); teachers are trying to fit the education around the students rather than trying to force the students into "sink or swim" learning, which really doesn't even benefit most students in the majority group either!
Sure, there were some challenges but it was a life-changing experience in the best way. Having a diverse friends group and interracial relationships has always come/felt natural to me and I've chosen to live a life that is very intercultural, in terms of my career, travel, and interests. (I noticed how my world got less diverse when I started post-secondary education but that changed later.) Again, I recognize how this all smacks of privilege but at least I can recognize that (and I never fail to be shocked at how many white people don't realize their privilege still, eek!)
Therefore, as I said before, to me heterogeneous schools seem like the best scenario for everyone (yes, I'm super biased!) I'm not sure if this is what you're looking for: I'm sure you can get a great deal of stories here, if not statistics. I recommend George Mason University for statistics and studies because it's a very diverse university in a very diverse area. They have PhDs in Cultural Studies and a PhD in Education with a specialization in Multilingual/Multicultural Education.
posted by smorgasbord at 10:05 AM on January 31, 2015
Therefore, it's a bit hard to describe the benefits because they feel so obvious and inherent to me! (I'll work on specifics though.) It frustrates me when people talk about how they only want to send their kids to "good schools." First, let's face it, all parents want their children to attend a "good school." The speakers I'm thinking of are generally white and trying to say that they want their children to attend white, middle-class schools; they're not wanting to sound racist but there's so much latent racism there, it's undeniable! And, technically, it's "fine" if people want to segregate themselves in 2015 (not really) but, ultimately, I think they're missing out on benefits that are much greater.
Like the article says, people have greater "cultural competency" that often leads to a stronger moral compass, increased social skills, and real-world awareness (including that of white privilege.) Plus, there's the extra fun stuff that comes with sharing cultures: experiencing how birthdays are celebrated differently, hearing different languages, seeing how grandparents (for one example) are involved differently in different cultures.
The first diverse school I attended was via voluntary busing: my parents wanted us to get away from the horrible, conservative, so-called "good school" (that people moved across the street to attend?!) that we were going to. Chances are, a school that celebrates (versus just tolerates or worse) cultural diversity also is a more open place for people of different abilities, SES, genders identities, sexual orientations, and more. They're liked more open to trying new technology, teaching methodologies, and more. Education feels more student-centered and experimental (in a good way); teachers are trying to fit the education around the students rather than trying to force the students into "sink or swim" learning, which really doesn't even benefit most students in the majority group either!
Sure, there were some challenges but it was a life-changing experience in the best way. Having a diverse friends group and interracial relationships has always come/felt natural to me and I've chosen to live a life that is very intercultural, in terms of my career, travel, and interests. (I noticed how my world got less diverse when I started post-secondary education but that changed later.) Again, I recognize how this all smacks of privilege but at least I can recognize that (and I never fail to be shocked at how many white people don't realize their privilege still, eek!)
Therefore, as I said before, to me heterogeneous schools seem like the best scenario for everyone (yes, I'm super biased!) I'm not sure if this is what you're looking for: I'm sure you can get a great deal of stories here, if not statistics. I recommend George Mason University for statistics and studies because it's a very diverse university in a very diverse area. They have PhDs in Cultural Studies and a PhD in Education with a specialization in Multilingual/Multicultural Education.
posted by smorgasbord at 10:05 AM on January 31, 2015
Although it explores a school in suburban Chicago (1970's) you may find Friends Disappear: The Battle for Racial Equality in Evanston by Mary Barr to be interesting. I went to that HS around this time and can vouch for the even-handedness of her perspective (though I've not finished the book).
posted by cleroy at 11:10 AM on January 31, 2015
posted by cleroy at 11:10 AM on January 31, 2015
Anecdote: I attended schools that were about 80% Hispanic. My wife learned to speak Spanish at her school in Connecticut. I learned to speak Spanish at my school in Southern California. When she speaks Spanish, she sounds like a parody of an American trying to speak Spanish. Like, she can't even roll her Rs. When I speak Spanish, I'm told I sound like I was born and raised in Tijuana.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 11:18 AM on January 31, 2015
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 11:18 AM on January 31, 2015
I was one of two white girls in my elementary school class, and then went on to a junior high/high school program that was maybe 5-10% white. Most of the other students were black, though the high school had a good amount of Hispanic kids, too.
A complicating factor is that I'm also Jewish, and there was a good amount of antisemitism going on. I could probably try to unpack which parts were because of being white and which parts were because of being Jewish, but, eh.
I like to think that I'm more culturally sensitive because of this, but I also don't think it's a destined outcome. I've met a bunch of other people who went to majority-minority schools who can't seem to divorce any prejudice they might have felt against them from the realities of systemic racism. So they'll say things like 'oh, I know how it is to be a minority' or 'people were racist against me, I got over it', when really - after you leave the school or that neighborhood (as long as you can leave that school or that neighborhood), the negatives get left behind, too.
Uh, an unforeseen consequence is that I spent my teenage years being really uncomfortable in groups that were 100% white, especially after I transferred high schools. At my first high school, the only kids that hung out with only white kids were the white supremacists. So, after I transferred to a school that was majority white, I mostly hung out with the immigrant kids - which was eye opening in a completely different way. Also, my Spanish vocab is shit, but my pronunciation is awesome.
posted by dinty_moore at 11:26 AM on January 31, 2015
A complicating factor is that I'm also Jewish, and there was a good amount of antisemitism going on. I could probably try to unpack which parts were because of being white and which parts were because of being Jewish, but, eh.
I like to think that I'm more culturally sensitive because of this, but I also don't think it's a destined outcome. I've met a bunch of other people who went to majority-minority schools who can't seem to divorce any prejudice they might have felt against them from the realities of systemic racism. So they'll say things like 'oh, I know how it is to be a minority' or 'people were racist against me, I got over it', when really - after you leave the school or that neighborhood (as long as you can leave that school or that neighborhood), the negatives get left behind, too.
Uh, an unforeseen consequence is that I spent my teenage years being really uncomfortable in groups that were 100% white, especially after I transferred high schools. At my first high school, the only kids that hung out with only white kids were the white supremacists. So, after I transferred to a school that was majority white, I mostly hung out with the immigrant kids - which was eye opening in a completely different way. Also, my Spanish vocab is shit, but my pronunciation is awesome.
posted by dinty_moore at 11:26 AM on January 31, 2015
It frustrates me when people talk about how they only want to send their kids to "good schools." First, let's face it, all parents want their children to attend a "good school.
True, but certain families are willing to make specific social and financial sacrifices to move to "good" school districts, whereas other parents might not be willing or able to make the same decisions.
Some of the most blatantly racist things I've heard coming out of other people's mouths came from people who grew up in mixed neighborhoods where the ethnic/racial rivalries became so pronounced that people learned to hate each other. It isn't an automatic given.
posted by deanc at 11:39 AM on January 31, 2015
True, but certain families are willing to make specific social and financial sacrifices to move to "good" school districts, whereas other parents might not be willing or able to make the same decisions.
Some of the most blatantly racist things I've heard coming out of other people's mouths came from people who grew up in mixed neighborhoods where the ethnic/racial rivalries became so pronounced that people learned to hate each other. It isn't an automatic given.
posted by deanc at 11:39 AM on January 31, 2015
Hmm, advantages and disadvantages of being in a majority black school in an inner city area as a white kid?
Advantages:
Feeling an affinity/deep empathy with/for minority groups/individuals that is often hard for majorities to grasp.
An unusual/interesting experience
Insights around exposure to black on black racism etc
Experiences you can't get from sociology text books
Disadvantages:
Being hated for my colour or what it was deemed to represent to people and confusion and distress at this as an 11 year old.
Social isolation until a mixed race girl joined my class.
Abuse.
Having my achievements rubbished - eg being the only one working in woodwork (it was a violent, crazy place) and the Voice black newspaper coming in to do a feature on the school, pushing me off the vice to photograph a black girl who had just been hurling chairs at someones head.
Major decline in confidence that lasted for four years until settled in a new school
Development of depression
To this day my preferred environment of choice is a diverse mix of people rather than 2 groups.
posted by tanktop at 11:53 AM on January 31, 2015
Advantages:
Feeling an affinity/deep empathy with/for minority groups/individuals that is often hard for majorities to grasp.
An unusual/interesting experience
Insights around exposure to black on black racism etc
Experiences you can't get from sociology text books
Disadvantages:
Being hated for my colour or what it was deemed to represent to people and confusion and distress at this as an 11 year old.
Social isolation until a mixed race girl joined my class.
Abuse.
Having my achievements rubbished - eg being the only one working in woodwork (it was a violent, crazy place) and the Voice black newspaper coming in to do a feature on the school, pushing me off the vice to photograph a black girl who had just been hurling chairs at someones head.
Major decline in confidence that lasted for four years until settled in a new school
Development of depression
To this day my preferred environment of choice is a diverse mix of people rather than 2 groups.
posted by tanktop at 11:53 AM on January 31, 2015
Some of the most blatantly racist things I've heard coming out of other people's mouths came from people who grew up in mixed neighborhoods where the ethnic/racial rivalries became so pronounced that people learned to hate each other. It isn't an automatic given.
Oh, yeah. My first high school had a lot of neonazis, considering there weren't that many white people to begin with, and there was a suspicion that every white kid was likely to be affiliated with them (the one area where being 'the Jew' helped).
Also, I wanted to say that there's a wealth of difference between being in an environment with a mix of different cultures/races and being the one X kid. Being the one X kid is always going to suck, and is less likely to foster any sort of understanding. Having access to different experiences without feeling the isolation is a lot more likely to be beneficial, but things are still so segregated (in the US, at least), that it's hard to get that experience.
posted by dinty_moore at 12:00 PM on January 31, 2015
Oh, yeah. My first high school had a lot of neonazis, considering there weren't that many white people to begin with, and there was a suspicion that every white kid was likely to be affiliated with them (the one area where being 'the Jew' helped).
Also, I wanted to say that there's a wealth of difference between being in an environment with a mix of different cultures/races and being the one X kid. Being the one X kid is always going to suck, and is less likely to foster any sort of understanding. Having access to different experiences without feeling the isolation is a lot more likely to be beneficial, but things are still so segregated (in the US, at least), that it's hard to get that experience.
posted by dinty_moore at 12:00 PM on January 31, 2015
I'm white and I grew up and lived most of my adult life in a region of the US where white people are a minority. The disparity was greater when I went to work. Usually I was one the few white employees who wasn't in management. Almost everyone else was black or Hispanic. Being friends with black people and hearing a lot of personal stories about racist bullshit they've had to put up with, and sometimes seeing how they're treated by management and the school system, has given me a different perspective on racism in the US than most white people. And it's given me a different perspective on media. There's no way I can not see how much of it is created by and for affluent white people who have no understanding of what other people's lives are like, or any care to understand, and the biases that creates.
Of course, a lot of white people who grew in the same or similar environments socialized only with people in all-white cliques. My story is about being a white misfit, who wasn't accepted accepted in any of the main cliques, growing up in a black-majority region of the country, and being befriended by and making friends with certain people. It's not everybody's story. Growing up in an environment that's not ethnically homogeneous means that you can make friends across ethnic lines, and you can learn a lot if you do, but it doesn't mean most people will. A lot of people don't. I don't think it matters if your group is technically a minority or not.
I think I'm echoing what a lot of other people have been saying.
posted by nangar at 12:17 PM on January 31, 2015
Of course, a lot of white people who grew in the same or similar environments socialized only with people in all-white cliques. My story is about being a white misfit, who wasn't accepted accepted in any of the main cliques, growing up in a black-majority region of the country, and being befriended by and making friends with certain people. It's not everybody's story. Growing up in an environment that's not ethnically homogeneous means that you can make friends across ethnic lines, and you can learn a lot if you do, but it doesn't mean most people will. A lot of people don't. I don't think it matters if your group is technically a minority or not.
I think I'm echoing what a lot of other people have been saying.
posted by nangar at 12:17 PM on January 31, 2015
You might want to look at the research of Genevieve Siegel-Hawley and Erica Frankenberg.
posted by jgirl at 12:53 PM on January 31, 2015
posted by jgirl at 12:53 PM on January 31, 2015
I'm a white guy who benefited, but I look at the facebook posts of some of my white classmates who didn't leave the area and joined the same country clubs their parents joined, and I wonder if they benefited.
So I'd say, yes, some benefit when coupled with other experiences and mentoring.
posted by infinitewindow at 12:54 PM on January 31, 2015
So I'd say, yes, some benefit when coupled with other experiences and mentoring.
posted by infinitewindow at 12:54 PM on January 31, 2015
America and the UK are very different and I don't think that the Americans' experiences here are helpful- interesting, yes, absolutely, but not helpful. I say this as a white expatriate American who attended a majority-black high school in the US rustbelt.
posted by ethnomethodologist at 9:48 AM on February 1, 2015
posted by ethnomethodologist at 9:48 AM on February 1, 2015
I should maybe point out that the very mild experience I referenced above is atypical, because the mix of whiteish and Indian immigrant families where I live is not divided by socioeconomics or any history of animosity. It's all families who came to the area - whether from overseas or not - to work in tech, and the kids are expected to work hard in school and extracurriculars and have similar expectations of their future. Kind of a Disney version of what others in this thread have been offering, really.
posted by fingersandtoes at 10:39 AM on February 1, 2015
posted by fingersandtoes at 10:39 AM on February 1, 2015
Personal experience, I think it was a learning experience for everyone. I think I had taken aspects of my background for granted---not in a snobbish way, but just that it was such a fact of life, I never had to think about it. And then I did, because I had to deal with practicalities such as where to observe religious holidays (a small expat community was about an hour away, but they were deeply suspicious of outsiders) and where to order certain not expensive items which suddenly were very expensive.
And on the part of my classmates---well, I think they learned some nuances which were helpful. They were very used to lumping all white people together as colonial oppressors. They were quite surprised to find that I was a 'minority' too and that my ancestors had been too busy fleeing the pogroms in Europe to be colonially oppressing anybody...
posted by JoannaC at 7:37 PM on February 2, 2015
And on the part of my classmates---well, I think they learned some nuances which were helpful. They were very used to lumping all white people together as colonial oppressors. They were quite surprised to find that I was a 'minority' too and that my ancestors had been too busy fleeing the pogroms in Europe to be colonially oppressing anybody...
posted by JoannaC at 7:37 PM on February 2, 2015
If you're still reading, also look at Richard Kahlenberg's work.
posted by jgirl at 11:39 AM on February 6, 2015
posted by jgirl at 11:39 AM on February 6, 2015
One more, and I'm done.
Look at Heather L. Schwartz's work.
posted by jgirl at 1:33 PM on February 6, 2015
Look at Heather L. Schwartz's work.
posted by jgirl at 1:33 PM on February 6, 2015
I spoke too soon!!! Check out Phil Tegeler at the Poverty and Race Research Action Council. Really, really interesting stuff.
I promise I'm done now.
posted by jgirl at 3:52 PM on February 6, 2015
I promise I'm done now.
posted by jgirl at 3:52 PM on February 6, 2015
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by tanktop at 9:12 AM on January 31, 2015