First time dating – is it me, or is this just how it is, for everyone?
December 27, 2014 10:38 PM Subscribe
So, as a mid-20-something-slightly-hard-of-hearing-SF-based dude, I’d never dated before up until about three months ago when I decided to make an OKC profile. Since then, I’ve gone on a whole bunch of dates, and on the whole, I’ve found the whole experience very insightful *and* rather frustrating.
Before I started dating, I thought my issue would be getting dates, and not what happens on them – that once I had the date, I’d be set. But it’s the other way around – I get around 5-10 incoming messages on OKC a day, more if I’m more active on the site; some even go so far as to give their number and ask me out to drinks in their first message. That’s well and good, but my experience on dates thus far has been somewhat mixed.
Out of those 25 dates I’ve been on in the last three months, there’ve been only maybe three or so people whom I’d have liked to see again, and out of those three, I’ve managed to go on second dates with two of them. I made plans with the other person to go out for a third, and they just… disappeared. That really sucked. The other, we mutually decided that there wasn’t really a spark and we’d be better off being friends for now, so hopefully we’ll regroup after the holidays. That one really hurt, but oh well – given that I’ve never been in a relationship before, nor have I ever had sex before – for crying out loud, I only had my first makeout a few months ago with an OKC date.
Aside from those three people, my other dates’ve been kind of meh. I’ve been wondering how I could make them better; it feels like either I’m checked out or the other person is – probably more often the latter than the former – and usually within the first five minutes or so. That makes me wonder if I’m doing something offputting. Overall, I feel really proud of myself that I’ve been putting myself out there, but what I’m having trouble with is how to approach a date. These are the issues that I’m wrestling with right now:
Having said all this, what can I do to make my dating experience less frustrating for myself as well for others? How do I get better at flirting and connecting, and recognizing when I want to do it, with the right person? How can I tell if I’m doing something off-putting? I’ve found myself wishing for some way I could get impartial feedback… but I don’t really know where to turn for that.
Before I started dating, I thought my issue would be getting dates, and not what happens on them – that once I had the date, I’d be set. But it’s the other way around – I get around 5-10 incoming messages on OKC a day, more if I’m more active on the site; some even go so far as to give their number and ask me out to drinks in their first message. That’s well and good, but my experience on dates thus far has been somewhat mixed.
Out of those 25 dates I’ve been on in the last three months, there’ve been only maybe three or so people whom I’d have liked to see again, and out of those three, I’ve managed to go on second dates with two of them. I made plans with the other person to go out for a third, and they just… disappeared. That really sucked. The other, we mutually decided that there wasn’t really a spark and we’d be better off being friends for now, so hopefully we’ll regroup after the holidays. That one really hurt, but oh well – given that I’ve never been in a relationship before, nor have I ever had sex before – for crying out loud, I only had my first makeout a few months ago with an OKC date.
Aside from those three people, my other dates’ve been kind of meh. I’ve been wondering how I could make them better; it feels like either I’m checked out or the other person is – probably more often the latter than the former – and usually within the first five minutes or so. That makes me wonder if I’m doing something offputting. Overall, I feel really proud of myself that I’ve been putting myself out there, but what I’m having trouble with is how to approach a date. These are the issues that I’m wrestling with right now:
1) given that I’m pretty hard of hearing, it’s a coin flip as to whether I’ll be able to understand my date and have conversation flow smoothly. This doesn’t really have anything to do with the choice of venue or background noise, I’ve found, but something inherent to the way my date talks. In the cases where it hasn’t been a big deal, it had NO effect whatsoever on the course of the date, but when it’s an issue (which happens around a third of the time), it REALLY screws things up. I’m not sure how to manage this.Anyway, is it just a law of nature that 90%+ of all internet dates’ll never go anywhere? I might’ve been a little harsh in saying that there’ve been only three or so people I’d have liked to seen again – there were quite a few people who I found interesting, and whom I’d have liked to get to know better, but it seems like the universal standard, more or less, is to have some kind of OMG AMAZING spark or connection on the first date, or move on, which seems a little silly, but okay, whatever. Different strokes and all that. But what does that spark consist of – sexual chemistry, even if both people are looking for something more serious-ish? Or something simpler and less fraught than that, like a friendly sense of connection? I wonder if that and the issues (1)-(3) that I mentioned above are holding me back from going on second dates with possibly awesome people with whom there’s a mutual sense of being on the fence, which is kind of a shame.
2) even in the cases where (1) isn’t an issue, I feel a little detached and checked out during my dates – I’m not hurting for options, so unless I really, really, really like the other person (which has only been the case around thrice) I don't feel like I have to try very hard. By that, I mean I feel like I’m putting the onus on the other person to impress me and go out of their way to show that they like me – sure, I’ll be friendly and polite and so on, but I don’t feel compelled to go out of my way to flirt with them or something.
3) related to (2), I’ve realized that I don’t really know how to flirt or to create a connection or a spark or whatever it is that people mean by that. To be honest, I’m not sure if that’s something that I can even make happen, is it? Is it just either there or it isn’t? Does it grow out of sexual interest on my part or something like that? If so, I’ve found that I haven’t been interested in ANY of my dates in that way, at least at first. I just find it very difficult to be attracted to someone I barely know and the whole assembly-line nature of it makes everyone seem interchangeable. Related to this, I’ve noticed that with people I tend to be very, very close, or we’re not at all – there’s no in-between. I wonder if my tendency to not really keep casual friends or acquaintances has anything to do with my finding it tough to feel much for new people.
4) and finally, I feel a little at odds with the cultural norm that, as a dude, I should be sleeping around or otherwise banging as many women as possible and not calling them again or whatever the flavor of the day is. Even though that’s not really my goal – I’d ideally like to get into something a little more serious than that: if not a LTR, at least something that lasts beyond a few dates -- I feel a little ashamed that I’m not living up to that ideal. I know, it sounds ridiculous, but – and I honestly don’t mean to slut-shame or be sex-negative or anything by this – who are these people who seemingly end up taking most of their first dates home with them, and what are they doing that I’m not?
Having said all this, what can I do to make my dating experience less frustrating for myself as well for others? How do I get better at flirting and connecting, and recognizing when I want to do it, with the right person? How can I tell if I’m doing something off-putting? I’ve found myself wishing for some way I could get impartial feedback… but I don’t really know where to turn for that.
what can I do to make my dating experience less frustrating for myself as well for others?
Get your hearing checked and get a hearing aid if necessary. Maybe I missed something, but this seems like a no-brainer. Best of luck moving forward!
posted by Specklet at 11:31 PM on December 27, 2014 [20 favorites]
Get your hearing checked and get a hearing aid if necessary. Maybe I missed something, but this seems like a no-brainer. Best of luck moving forward!
posted by Specklet at 11:31 PM on December 27, 2014 [20 favorites]
OKCupid first dates are not the same thing as "normal" first dates! The standard model involves chatting someone up at a bar, or hitting it off at a reception, or whatever, followed by a "date." (The guys in your #4 who are so successful at sex after first dates are following the standard script.) The good thing about the old-fashioned method is that all the unconscious hind-brain animal parts of attraction are already well-handled by the time you get around to meeting someone for dinner; when they aren't, it never gets that far anyway.
OKCupid pushes some b.s. about how their algorithm will point you to good matches so you don't need to get to know people, but savvy OKC daters don't pay much attention to the "pre-selection online" parts of that at all. The only thing one should do online (according to them) is to move as quickly as possible to meet IRL and start from there.
What this means is that the OKCupid first date corresponds to striking up a conversation in a bar with a stranger.
One comment I've heard more than a few times is that your first few OKCupid IRL dates don't count as real dates. They're just preliminaries, so you shouldn't get as upset when they end soon or fail to engage. You're not a loser because women don't want to hook up with you after one of them; women don't tend to hook up immediately after flirty chats at the bus stop either.
In short: you are going to have to resign yourself to a higher occurrence of "kissing frogs," so for the sake of your own sanity, back away from obsessing too much about the outcomes of those first dates.
posted by Harvey Kilobit at 11:39 PM on December 27, 2014 [21 favorites]
OKCupid pushes some b.s. about how their algorithm will point you to good matches so you don't need to get to know people, but savvy OKC daters don't pay much attention to the "pre-selection online" parts of that at all. The only thing one should do online (according to them) is to move as quickly as possible to meet IRL and start from there.
What this means is that the OKCupid first date corresponds to striking up a conversation in a bar with a stranger.
One comment I've heard more than a few times is that your first few OKCupid IRL dates don't count as real dates. They're just preliminaries, so you shouldn't get as upset when they end soon or fail to engage. You're not a loser because women don't want to hook up with you after one of them; women don't tend to hook up immediately after flirty chats at the bus stop either.
In short: you are going to have to resign yourself to a higher occurrence of "kissing frogs," so for the sake of your own sanity, back away from obsessing too much about the outcomes of those first dates.
posted by Harvey Kilobit at 11:39 PM on December 27, 2014 [21 favorites]
First of all, it's totally normal to not want to kiss/sleep with/date/marry the vast majority of people you meet. Since it sounds like you are fairly indiscriminately going out with people who message you on OKCupid, it makes sense that a lot of them wouldn't be a great fit for you. If you were romantically compatible with 90% of the humans out there, you'd know it already.
That said, you make it sound a bit like you're conducting your dates as if they were job interviews, with the onus on the other person to impress you, and that doesn't sound very fun. Ideally, the date is an experience of mutual discovery. You guys discover each other (and you also discover whatever it is that you're experiencing on the date, like a walk, or a museum, or food or whatever). I think it's natural to not be instantly attracted to strangers, but then if you meet someone and five minutes later you're like "gosh, I am not instantly attracted to this girl, I'll just sit back and see if she can impress me even though I am pretty sure I'm ready to go home already," you might well be missing the way you'd like the person if you discovered them properly.*
Anyway, maybe you could try the date more like a pleasant investigation. Who is this person? What might you find interesting about them? What might you like about them? Think of it as a treasure hunt. Be curious. Even if this person isn't YOUR special someone, even if they aren't YOUR cup of tea, somebody loves them and hopes that they'd have a good date. Look at them through the eyes of someone who already cares about their well being. Maybe at the end of the date you'll discover that you like them better than you did at the beginning. Worst case scenario, at least you'll have had a slightly more intriguing hour or two than you would have had if you were just sitting back "waiting for them to impress you."
*I can say from personal experience that some of the most serious relationships of my life, I thought the person was kind of a bonehead the first time we met. Clearly my "chemistry" is not instantaneous and perhaps yours is not either.
posted by feets at 11:39 PM on December 27, 2014 [23 favorites]
That said, you make it sound a bit like you're conducting your dates as if they were job interviews, with the onus on the other person to impress you, and that doesn't sound very fun. Ideally, the date is an experience of mutual discovery. You guys discover each other (and you also discover whatever it is that you're experiencing on the date, like a walk, or a museum, or food or whatever). I think it's natural to not be instantly attracted to strangers, but then if you meet someone and five minutes later you're like "gosh, I am not instantly attracted to this girl, I'll just sit back and see if she can impress me even though I am pretty sure I'm ready to go home already," you might well be missing the way you'd like the person if you discovered them properly.*
Anyway, maybe you could try the date more like a pleasant investigation. Who is this person? What might you find interesting about them? What might you like about them? Think of it as a treasure hunt. Be curious. Even if this person isn't YOUR special someone, even if they aren't YOUR cup of tea, somebody loves them and hopes that they'd have a good date. Look at them through the eyes of someone who already cares about their well being. Maybe at the end of the date you'll discover that you like them better than you did at the beginning. Worst case scenario, at least you'll have had a slightly more intriguing hour or two than you would have had if you were just sitting back "waiting for them to impress you."
*I can say from personal experience that some of the most serious relationships of my life, I thought the person was kind of a bonehead the first time we met. Clearly my "chemistry" is not instantaneous and perhaps yours is not either.
posted by feets at 11:39 PM on December 27, 2014 [23 favorites]
I can't comment on any issues related to your hearing but from a world away (late 40s woman), I have to say that dating is, I think, more difficult than ever before, and my theory is that its due to an increasingly individual-structured society. I think that dating sites (all of them) have changed (by usage, not design) from places to connect with people to places to shop for people. As each newcomer is put through the dating wringer of being selected for a try-out before sudden abandonment, they learn to protect themselves by adopting this behaviour as well. Daters become a commodity and cease to be people with feelings and flaws, hopes and uniquenesses.
That said, I have developed some rules of thumbs that go something like this (YMMV):
I am upfront about the (usually) less preferred aspects of myself including but not limited to intelligence, lack of interest in sports, overweight.
I assume that even nice interesting people don't read my profile.
If the potential dater can't be polite in chat, then there is a nearly zero chance they will be good company, but I usually give people one free pass in case they're having a shitty day.
My minimum requirements in a potential dater include courtesy, interest in some non-physical activity and humour.
As a woman, I've ceased being the one who initiates dates or conversation because such a high proportion of men reacted negatively. It's sad that I'm missing out on guys that would appreciate it, but it was so common a behaviour. (I mention this so you can be aware that some women might like to chat with you more but leave it to you to make next move).
This is based on 4 years of dating post-20 year marriage with an uncounted number of conversations, probably over 100 dates, and 3 or 4 nice guys that I saw more than once, but not longer than 3 months.
In another Askme (i think) there was a discussion about whether it was more polite to abruptly end contact or to let the other person know why (my preferred method) and I believe the general consensus was that immediately you're not interested, cease contact with no explanation. If you're like me, the first 20(0) times this occurs, it's hurtful.
I don't know exactly what a spark is either, but I'm now of the opinion that if the other person and I can have fun each time we're together (conversation, activities, etc), we share enough similar values, and we find each other attractive - this is super-fucking-amazing, and lets see each other regularly until it stops working. Some people think that this criteria is called settling.
Oh, some of my results are due to the age group I'm in - a lot of people post marriage actively avoid relationships. It might be true of your age group - I don't know.
Good luck.
posted by b33j at 11:55 PM on December 27, 2014 [18 favorites]
That said, I have developed some rules of thumbs that go something like this (YMMV):
I am upfront about the (usually) less preferred aspects of myself including but not limited to intelligence, lack of interest in sports, overweight.
I assume that even nice interesting people don't read my profile.
If the potential dater can't be polite in chat, then there is a nearly zero chance they will be good company, but I usually give people one free pass in case they're having a shitty day.
My minimum requirements in a potential dater include courtesy, interest in some non-physical activity and humour.
As a woman, I've ceased being the one who initiates dates or conversation because such a high proportion of men reacted negatively. It's sad that I'm missing out on guys that would appreciate it, but it was so common a behaviour. (I mention this so you can be aware that some women might like to chat with you more but leave it to you to make next move).
This is based on 4 years of dating post-20 year marriage with an uncounted number of conversations, probably over 100 dates, and 3 or 4 nice guys that I saw more than once, but not longer than 3 months.
In another Askme (i think) there was a discussion about whether it was more polite to abruptly end contact or to let the other person know why (my preferred method) and I believe the general consensus was that immediately you're not interested, cease contact with no explanation. If you're like me, the first 20(0) times this occurs, it's hurtful.
I don't know exactly what a spark is either, but I'm now of the opinion that if the other person and I can have fun each time we're together (conversation, activities, etc), we share enough similar values, and we find each other attractive - this is super-fucking-amazing, and lets see each other regularly until it stops working. Some people think that this criteria is called settling.
Oh, some of my results are due to the age group I'm in - a lot of people post marriage actively avoid relationships. It might be true of your age group - I don't know.
Good luck.
posted by b33j at 11:55 PM on December 27, 2014 [18 favorites]
Its everyone. I remember going on dates with people I'd known for months through friends or school and discovering we had nothing to talk about outside that environment. Its hard to meet someone you really click with.
posted by fshgrl at 12:31 AM on December 28, 2014
posted by fshgrl at 12:31 AM on December 28, 2014
Are you going on dates with the people who give you their number in the first message? If so, cut that out!
While you shouldn't be spending weeks and weeks messaging before meeting in person, meeting up after one message would be way too quick. I'd say that a good average number of messages before meeting in person is six.
posted by kinddieserzeit at 12:34 AM on December 28, 2014 [1 favorite]
While you shouldn't be spending weeks and weeks messaging before meeting in person, meeting up after one message would be way too quick. I'd say that a good average number of messages before meeting in person is six.
posted by kinddieserzeit at 12:34 AM on December 28, 2014 [1 favorite]
It is everyone. Online dating is brutal. (It can work! It's often the best option we have! But it's often brutal and sometimes feels like a job. You are not alone.)
posted by Countess Sandwich at 12:37 AM on December 28, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by Countess Sandwich at 12:37 AM on December 28, 2014 [2 favorites]
- Is it just either there or it isn’t? Yes, imo.
- Does it grow out of sexual interest on my part or something like that? Yup, yours and the other person's.
- If so, I’ve found that I haven’t been interested in ANY of my dates in that way, at least at first. I just find it very difficult to be attracted to someone I barely know and the whole assembly-line nature of it makes everyone seem interchangeable. That's fair enough. Not everyone is hot to trot for/with everyone.
- who are these people who seemingly end up taking most of their first dates home with them, and what are they doing that I’m not? Probably, people who are older or more experienced or extroverted or aroused or drunk than you've been/are. At least some of the time, some of them are thinking, "eh, why not".
posted by cotton dress sock at 12:58 AM on December 28, 2014
- Does it grow out of sexual interest on my part or something like that? Yup, yours and the other person's.
- If so, I’ve found that I haven’t been interested in ANY of my dates in that way, at least at first. I just find it very difficult to be attracted to someone I barely know and the whole assembly-line nature of it makes everyone seem interchangeable. That's fair enough. Not everyone is hot to trot for/with everyone.
- who are these people who seemingly end up taking most of their first dates home with them, and what are they doing that I’m not? Probably, people who are older or more experienced or extroverted or aroused or drunk than you've been/are. At least some of the time, some of them are thinking, "eh, why not".
posted by cotton dress sock at 12:58 AM on December 28, 2014
I'm not technically hard of hearing, but a hearing test showed that in one ear I'm less than average; I find that I have a hard time understanding men who have deeper voices than average unless they have perfect diction. It's like the timbre is too low for my ear to be able to distinguish the sounds or something.
"This doesn’t really have anything to do with the choice of venue or background noise, I’ve found, but something inherent to the way my date talks. In the cases where it hasn’t been a big deal, it had NO effect whatsoever on the course of the date, but when it’s an issue (which happens around a third of the time)"
So 1/3 of the time you're with people you can't understand them or communicate without lots of effort?? I find this to be a huge issue, not one exclusive to dating. Communication is huge in even every day interaction, let alone during the process of finding someone to potentially be in a committed relationship with. I can only speak for myself, but if I went on a date with someone who had trouble understanding me I would personally find that to be a big obstacle and not one I might be willing to tackle for someone I had only just met.
"but something inherent to the way my date talks"
Does this mean that you need someone with a higher timbre in voice; a more resonant voice; or perhaps someone with impeccable diction- in order to understand them? If so, why not try to eliminate that 1/3 of people by making it very clear on your profile the requirements of speech necessary. Since so many people don't bother reading profiles it might not eliminate the problem entirely, but hopefully you won't be wasting as much time. And who knows- you might even attract one or two hot actor types who have taken years of speech training and want to show off their skills. :)
Also- have you considered learning sign language so that you can become social with communities that are more hard of hearing than you are? I tried learning it myself once. (My intentions back then were not pure. There was a guy who I found super attractive working at school near my job and he was deaf. I pretended I was learning it so that I could volunteer to help deaf kids, but the truth was this guy was gorgeous and I wanted to get all up in that.) We never hooked up, but I was able to make friends with a couple of people in the deaf community. If I hadn't moved away I would've kept it up because it was a fun thing to learn and you make great connections with people that you otherwise wouldn't be able to.
posted by rancher at 2:33 AM on December 28, 2014 [1 favorite]
"This doesn’t really have anything to do with the choice of venue or background noise, I’ve found, but something inherent to the way my date talks. In the cases where it hasn’t been a big deal, it had NO effect whatsoever on the course of the date, but when it’s an issue (which happens around a third of the time)"
So 1/3 of the time you're with people you can't understand them or communicate without lots of effort?? I find this to be a huge issue, not one exclusive to dating. Communication is huge in even every day interaction, let alone during the process of finding someone to potentially be in a committed relationship with. I can only speak for myself, but if I went on a date with someone who had trouble understanding me I would personally find that to be a big obstacle and not one I might be willing to tackle for someone I had only just met.
"but something inherent to the way my date talks"
Does this mean that you need someone with a higher timbre in voice; a more resonant voice; or perhaps someone with impeccable diction- in order to understand them? If so, why not try to eliminate that 1/3 of people by making it very clear on your profile the requirements of speech necessary. Since so many people don't bother reading profiles it might not eliminate the problem entirely, but hopefully you won't be wasting as much time. And who knows- you might even attract one or two hot actor types who have taken years of speech training and want to show off their skills. :)
Also- have you considered learning sign language so that you can become social with communities that are more hard of hearing than you are? I tried learning it myself once. (My intentions back then were not pure. There was a guy who I found super attractive working at school near my job and he was deaf. I pretended I was learning it so that I could volunteer to help deaf kids, but the truth was this guy was gorgeous and I wanted to get all up in that.) We never hooked up, but I was able to make friends with a couple of people in the deaf community. If I hadn't moved away I would've kept it up because it was a fun thing to learn and you make great connections with people that you otherwise wouldn't be able to.
posted by rancher at 2:33 AM on December 28, 2014 [1 favorite]
You say you're not "hurting for options"- but presumably that's as long as the options you want are 'which slightly awkward kind of first date shall I go on next?' I really don't want to be unkind but you sound rather arrogant for someone in their 20s who has no sexual experience. I expect that is coming across to your dates. I would take a more objective look at how you come across.
posted by KateViolet at 2:55 AM on December 28, 2014 [23 favorites]
posted by KateViolet at 2:55 AM on December 28, 2014 [23 favorites]
Sometimes boredom is a mask for fear. If you've had no sexual experience, boredom can be an easy way out for your brain, without you even realizing it; it can be much easier to simply shut your emotions and interest down than to experiment with scary new ways to create a connection with someone.
So start trying to connect with people in ways that push yourself out of your comfort zone. That might start with something as simple as small talk. Simple, but, if you're an intense-or-nothing person as you describe, it'll possibly be quite difficult to do without getting bored. Small talk is where people make their first tentative bids for connection.
Which leads directly to:
Don't be made a fool of by your boredom.
posted by clawsoon at 3:51 AM on December 28, 2014 [9 favorites]
So start trying to connect with people in ways that push yourself out of your comfort zone. That might start with something as simple as small talk. Simple, but, if you're an intense-or-nothing person as you describe, it'll possibly be quite difficult to do without getting bored. Small talk is where people make their first tentative bids for connection.
Which leads directly to:
I’ve realized that I don’t really know how to flirt or to create a connection or a spark or whatever it is that people mean by that. To be honest, I’m not sure if that’s something that I can even make happen, is it?You can't force it to happen, but you can make it much more likely. When someone makes a bid for connection, you can respond in three basic ways: Turn toward, turn away, or turn against. You're doing a lot of turning away. That kills connections. On your many dates, practise doing small talk with interest and good humor, even when you are convinced you'll be bored. That will start to give you the skills to not destroy your chances for a second date on those rare occasions when you do feel a more intense attraction.
Don't be made a fool of by your boredom.
posted by clawsoon at 3:51 AM on December 28, 2014 [9 favorites]
You need to spend more time messaging before the date to make sure you actually like this person in advance. Then meet them for coffee only (1 hour tops) so if there is no connection its not a waste of your time. Also, do you tell these people you are hard of hearing before you meet? Do you let them know the best way for them to communicate with you (i.e don't cover mouth when talking or whatever helps)?
posted by Toddles at 4:41 AM on December 28, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by Toddles at 4:41 AM on December 28, 2014 [3 favorites]
who are these people who seemingly end up taking most of their first dates home with them, and what are they doing that I’m not?
I doubt they are being quite as successful as that, but likely they are both selecting first dates who seem more likely to want sex (based on profiles and messages) and are making a direct enough move during every date ("Want to come back to my place?") that they get a direct yes or no, rather than a vague "Let's totally meet up again, maybe". If you aren't making a move, you aren't going to be hooking up very much -- which is ok, but it's good to be honest about how the results you are getting are caused by what you are doing.
That said, I agree with the people saying that you need to get the hearing thing more sorted out. I have just a tiny bit of hearing loss (from years of loud machinery, guns, and loud music) that makes it hard to understand a person when other people are talking behind them, like in crowded bars, so I can imagine how difficult it would be to really not be hearing the other person. I don't know what the best solution is -- hearing aids? picking better venues? being upfront about needing your dates to speak really clearly? -- but right now this is killing 1/3 of your dates, so solving this needs to be the first priority.
posted by Dip Flash at 5:46 AM on December 28, 2014 [1 favorite]
I doubt they are being quite as successful as that, but likely they are both selecting first dates who seem more likely to want sex (based on profiles and messages) and are making a direct enough move during every date ("Want to come back to my place?") that they get a direct yes or no, rather than a vague "Let's totally meet up again, maybe". If you aren't making a move, you aren't going to be hooking up very much -- which is ok, but it's good to be honest about how the results you are getting are caused by what you are doing.
That said, I agree with the people saying that you need to get the hearing thing more sorted out. I have just a tiny bit of hearing loss (from years of loud machinery, guns, and loud music) that makes it hard to understand a person when other people are talking behind them, like in crowded bars, so I can imagine how difficult it would be to really not be hearing the other person. I don't know what the best solution is -- hearing aids? picking better venues? being upfront about needing your dates to speak really clearly? -- but right now this is killing 1/3 of your dates, so solving this needs to be the first priority.
posted by Dip Flash at 5:46 AM on December 28, 2014 [1 favorite]
The difference between dating and on-line dating is that when you make a date with someone you already know through either a social or professional setting, you're not meeting for the first time. If you meet someone at happy hour, you have an opportunity to see if you click there, if you do, your first date isn't about compatibility or spark, you've already established that. So yes, 10:1 seems about right for blind dates. Which is what OKC dates are.
About 25 years ago, I went on a date with someone who was hard of hearing and as much as I tried, my charm is in my wit, and the poor guy could NOT keep the flow of conversation going. It made me very self-conscious. If you do not have hearing aids, get them. Why this guy didn't have them, I don't know, but I have never worked so hard on a date in my life.
Conversation is the most important way we learn about each other. So employ whatever technology you can to facilitate that.
As for all that sleeping around, it's okay for some folks, but really, it can be very empty and lonely if what you want is connection. Sex is not intimacy.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 5:59 AM on December 28, 2014 [5 favorites]
About 25 years ago, I went on a date with someone who was hard of hearing and as much as I tried, my charm is in my wit, and the poor guy could NOT keep the flow of conversation going. It made me very self-conscious. If you do not have hearing aids, get them. Why this guy didn't have them, I don't know, but I have never worked so hard on a date in my life.
Conversation is the most important way we learn about each other. So employ whatever technology you can to facilitate that.
As for all that sleeping around, it's okay for some folks, but really, it can be very empty and lonely if what you want is connection. Sex is not intimacy.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 5:59 AM on December 28, 2014 [5 favorites]
unless I really, really, really like the other person
I think this is an unnecessarily and unproductively high standard to place on who you consider pursuing a second date with. You should only marry someone you really, really, really like. But you're not getting married; you're just wanting a second date, and maybe possibly some sexual/romantic closeness beyond that. Your standard for going on a second date should be that you enjoyed spending time with them and didn't find any obvious turn-offs (even if there wasn't a "spark").
Think of it this way: what if you did save all your second dates only for women who are really super-duper perfect for you, and you do wind up in a budding relationship with Ms. Right and you screw it up and jeopardize things due to inexperience of never being in a relationship? I think it would be good for you to have some--I hate to say it, but the word that comes to mind is "practice" or "starter" relationships where there's no expectation that everything is so serious and perfect. There's a middle ground between one-night stands and searching for Ms. Right.
posted by drlith at 6:03 AM on December 28, 2014 [9 favorites]
I think this is an unnecessarily and unproductively high standard to place on who you consider pursuing a second date with. You should only marry someone you really, really, really like. But you're not getting married; you're just wanting a second date, and maybe possibly some sexual/romantic closeness beyond that. Your standard for going on a second date should be that you enjoyed spending time with them and didn't find any obvious turn-offs (even if there wasn't a "spark").
Think of it this way: what if you did save all your second dates only for women who are really super-duper perfect for you, and you do wind up in a budding relationship with Ms. Right and you screw it up and jeopardize things due to inexperience of never being in a relationship? I think it would be good for you to have some--I hate to say it, but the word that comes to mind is "practice" or "starter" relationships where there's no expectation that everything is so serious and perfect. There's a middle ground between one-night stands and searching for Ms. Right.
posted by drlith at 6:03 AM on December 28, 2014 [9 favorites]
A quote on boring dates, from Metafilter favourite Intimate Connections:
The first thing you have to realize is that there are no boring or uninteresting people in the world. That's right! There's not one person who's even slightly uninteresting. There are only dull, boring interactions between people. But even these are quite fascinating, and furthermore they can nearly always be instantly transformed into dynamic, exciting ones.posted by clawsoon at 7:13 AM on December 28, 2014 [11 favorites]
How? It's very simple. If you feel bored with someone, say so. That's guaranteed to liven things up quickly! Just acknowledge how bored you're feeling and ask if the other person feels the same way. See if you can find out why the two of you are interacting in such a stuffy, dull way. The aim of this maneuver is not to reject or put the other person down, but to encourage more openness and directness in both of you. If you fell 'bored' with someone, it's almost a sure bet that you're both being pretty inhibited about expressing what you're really feeling. Maybe you're trying too hard to be polite or impress each other, or perhaps you're annoyed because you want something you're not getting. .... Being more assertive and honest is generally an instant cure!
I am only going to address the hard-of-hearing part. I wear hearing aids and have since age 5, but conversations can still be difficult. I do a lot of educated guessing at what people are saying, but when meeting someone new, you really need to be able to distinguish between "I deal drugs for a living" and "I weave rugs for a living." Over time, you'll get used to their voice and they'll get used to accommodating you (or not, in which case, dump their ass).
So when you're on the date, I would be upfront the first time you can't quite hear what they're saying. Here are some things I might say:
"Wow, it's kind of loud in here, do you mind speaking up a bit? I'm hard of hearing."
"I'm hard of hearing but I'm a good lip reader, plus you have a cute mouth [wink]"
"I didn't get that, did you say you're from LA? Oh, East Bay. Gotcha."
"Do you mind speaking a little slower? I'm hard of hearing and I don't want to miss anything you say."
Yes, the person might get annoyed at having to repeat themselves. Fuck them. They can go date someone else who is perfect and never makes them feel any discomfort.
If you do not have hearing aids, get them.
These cost thousands of dollars and are not usually covered by insurance (yes, really!). It's likely that OP has considered it and cannot afford it. OP, if you do have great insurance, it's worthwhile to consult an audiologist because hearing aids are lifechanging. There is NO SHAME in wearing them, either. Again, anyone who judges you for your hearing can just fuck right off.
posted by desjardins at 7:34 AM on December 28, 2014 [19 favorites]
So when you're on the date, I would be upfront the first time you can't quite hear what they're saying. Here are some things I might say:
"Wow, it's kind of loud in here, do you mind speaking up a bit? I'm hard of hearing."
"I'm hard of hearing but I'm a good lip reader, plus you have a cute mouth [wink]"
"I didn't get that, did you say you're from LA? Oh, East Bay. Gotcha."
"Do you mind speaking a little slower? I'm hard of hearing and I don't want to miss anything you say."
Yes, the person might get annoyed at having to repeat themselves. Fuck them. They can go date someone else who is perfect and never makes them feel any discomfort.
If you do not have hearing aids, get them.
These cost thousands of dollars and are not usually covered by insurance (yes, really!). It's likely that OP has considered it and cannot afford it. OP, if you do have great insurance, it's worthwhile to consult an audiologist because hearing aids are lifechanging. There is NO SHAME in wearing them, either. Again, anyone who judges you for your hearing can just fuck right off.
posted by desjardins at 7:34 AM on December 28, 2014 [19 favorites]
I feel the Spark is related to a friendly sense of connection. You want someone in your life? For however long. Make them feel welcome. Appreciate that they showed up. Put out the welcome mat and entertain and be entertained. Humor is a good way, but be careful with it. In any case, it might take some being uncomfortable if it doesn’t come easy to you but you think someone could be worth the effort.
I once had an at-first-sight Feeling for a guy for more than a year, and never thought he’d seek me out after our first Meet Not-Cute. He did. But though he made a charming effort, he was not the best at flirting. One example was when he said something, then left without waiting for a response or reaction, rather than trying to have a conversation with me. The effort lasted a week, reaching its culmination when he finally did initiate an actual conversation with me and sounded annoyed the entire time. I tried to be patient and polite (I'm actually very good at this) during that conversation and to keep the exchange going, but I guess I didn't react as well as I thought. Afterward, he stopped completely.
Honestly, I would’ve given him my number if he’d asked during Awkward Flirt #1. I was sure I had responded encouragingly (jokes, smiles, compliment regarding clothing article) because I was elated he had actually talked to me... We were both interested, but we couldn't match up as human beings relating to each other.
Point is, technique helps.
Find something to talk about, show the other person who you are and that helps you learn who they are. This doesn't have to be a dark childhood tell-all. Look at what's around you, what's happening. Nothing profound--what's in the room? Does the other person like the sport on the bar TV? Are you outside? Are there stars? Do they like stars? Well, why? Work with what you've got. The way you see the world either meshes with the way they see it, complements it, or it doesn't match up at all. I guess figuring that out is part of why we go through all this.
posted by artful at 9:22 AM on December 28, 2014
I once had an at-first-sight Feeling for a guy for more than a year, and never thought he’d seek me out after our first Meet Not-Cute. He did. But though he made a charming effort, he was not the best at flirting. One example was when he said something, then left without waiting for a response or reaction, rather than trying to have a conversation with me. The effort lasted a week, reaching its culmination when he finally did initiate an actual conversation with me and sounded annoyed the entire time. I tried to be patient and polite (I'm actually very good at this) during that conversation and to keep the exchange going, but I guess I didn't react as well as I thought. Afterward, he stopped completely.
Honestly, I would’ve given him my number if he’d asked during Awkward Flirt #1. I was sure I had responded encouragingly (jokes, smiles, compliment regarding clothing article) because I was elated he had actually talked to me... We were both interested, but we couldn't match up as human beings relating to each other.
Point is, technique helps.
Find something to talk about, show the other person who you are and that helps you learn who they are. This doesn't have to be a dark childhood tell-all. Look at what's around you, what's happening. Nothing profound--what's in the room? Does the other person like the sport on the bar TV? Are you outside? Are there stars? Do they like stars? Well, why? Work with what you've got. The way you see the world either meshes with the way they see it, complements it, or it doesn't match up at all. I guess figuring that out is part of why we go through all this.
posted by artful at 9:22 AM on December 28, 2014
Hi SF-dude, It sounds like there is a lot of good news here and I think there are just a few different perspectives you can think about regarding the points that you've brought up.
It sounds great that you are getting so much interest on the site. You have a profile that women are reacting to positively and want to get to know you better in person. That is everything you can ask for from a dating website.
From there on, your dating life sounds very, very normal and characteristic of what we *all* go through. It has it's highs and lows. Triumphs and disappointments. That is the nature of the beast. Just because you encountered some of those lows and dissapointments, doesn't mean that you are doing anything wrong or are deficient in experience/personality/approach.
is it just a law of nature that 90%+ of all internet dates’ll never go anywhere?
Yes, this is true. Statistics reported in scientific journals on relationships and dating sites themselves report numbers like this. (I can't find the original research, but this blurb gives the gist) There are times when it will be a "no" for you right off the bat, others where you are fairly interested and want to see where it will go, and then even rarer, the moments when you meet someone and there are full out fireworks the first date for you. The same possibilities and range of responses happen in the women that are on the other side of the table from you. 80-90% of the time, the responses in each person aren't mutually compatible. You are in it to find that 10-20% and see what that develops into.
I’ve realized that I don’t really know how to flirt or to create a connection
This is not a duty of yours to create. If you adopt into this view of dating, that it is your responsibility to act out a certain role, or do certain behaviors, to create a connection between you two, then you are putting way too much pressure on yourself. Self pressure in dating almost always stifles things- you simply cannot be yourself and let the best parts of your personality shine. Connection is not something that two people consciously create with one another, but rather a byproduct or outcome of what happens when they are together. It is an important distinction to make, which I think a lot of dating advice columns never do. Being thoughtful, romantic, exciting in planning and setting up dates creates the atmosphere and context for you two to have the experiences and opportunities to connect- not manufacture the connection itself.
By that, I mean I feel like I’m putting the onus on the other person to impress me and go out of their way to show that they like me
It is a two way street. You both have the onus to engage the other person and find out what they are about. If you are really interested in them, you will feel compelled to do that, and vice versa.
I just find it very difficult to be attracted to someone I barely know and the whole assembly-line nature of it makes everyone seem interchangeable.
I find that I am prone to feeling this way if I am going out on too many dates, too frequently. Everything does start to seem like an assembly line, and my ability to be interested in even wonderful people can start to suffer. You are getting lots of interest on the site. Be a little more selective and go on less dates with higher quality people that you initially are more excited about.
Re: the hearing issue. It is hard to give pinpointed advice because we don't know what your hearing capabilities are and what noise levels you can work with, but I would realize that anyone who values you and wants to date you is going to have to accept your hearing situation and work with you on whatever makes things easiest for you. If during your dates, you find that you cannot hear well and need to move to a different seat or table or even venue, I see a tremendous amount of value in laying out what your hearing situation is and what you need to do. You will see how empathetic and accommodating the other person is right off the bat and you need someone who is accommodating and accepting in your life- not the opposite.
Finally, (cliche time) the golden rule is that there are no rules. Everyone will try to tell you this and that rule, "never take someone to x for date number y", "always send a follow up message saying z", "Make sure you ask about i, j, k." Consider them, but don't feel compelled. Use your own experiences as the best teacher. Be your own person. The most valuable commodities in dating, and what drive people wild, are individuality and authenticity.
posted by incolorinred at 9:56 AM on December 28, 2014 [3 favorites]
It sounds great that you are getting so much interest on the site. You have a profile that women are reacting to positively and want to get to know you better in person. That is everything you can ask for from a dating website.
From there on, your dating life sounds very, very normal and characteristic of what we *all* go through. It has it's highs and lows. Triumphs and disappointments. That is the nature of the beast. Just because you encountered some of those lows and dissapointments, doesn't mean that you are doing anything wrong or are deficient in experience/personality/approach.
is it just a law of nature that 90%+ of all internet dates’ll never go anywhere?
Yes, this is true. Statistics reported in scientific journals on relationships and dating sites themselves report numbers like this. (I can't find the original research, but this blurb gives the gist) There are times when it will be a "no" for you right off the bat, others where you are fairly interested and want to see where it will go, and then even rarer, the moments when you meet someone and there are full out fireworks the first date for you. The same possibilities and range of responses happen in the women that are on the other side of the table from you. 80-90% of the time, the responses in each person aren't mutually compatible. You are in it to find that 10-20% and see what that develops into.
I’ve realized that I don’t really know how to flirt or to create a connection
This is not a duty of yours to create. If you adopt into this view of dating, that it is your responsibility to act out a certain role, or do certain behaviors, to create a connection between you two, then you are putting way too much pressure on yourself. Self pressure in dating almost always stifles things- you simply cannot be yourself and let the best parts of your personality shine. Connection is not something that two people consciously create with one another, but rather a byproduct or outcome of what happens when they are together. It is an important distinction to make, which I think a lot of dating advice columns never do. Being thoughtful, romantic, exciting in planning and setting up dates creates the atmosphere and context for you two to have the experiences and opportunities to connect- not manufacture the connection itself.
By that, I mean I feel like I’m putting the onus on the other person to impress me and go out of their way to show that they like me
It is a two way street. You both have the onus to engage the other person and find out what they are about. If you are really interested in them, you will feel compelled to do that, and vice versa.
I just find it very difficult to be attracted to someone I barely know and the whole assembly-line nature of it makes everyone seem interchangeable.
I find that I am prone to feeling this way if I am going out on too many dates, too frequently. Everything does start to seem like an assembly line, and my ability to be interested in even wonderful people can start to suffer. You are getting lots of interest on the site. Be a little more selective and go on less dates with higher quality people that you initially are more excited about.
Re: the hearing issue. It is hard to give pinpointed advice because we don't know what your hearing capabilities are and what noise levels you can work with, but I would realize that anyone who values you and wants to date you is going to have to accept your hearing situation and work with you on whatever makes things easiest for you. If during your dates, you find that you cannot hear well and need to move to a different seat or table or even venue, I see a tremendous amount of value in laying out what your hearing situation is and what you need to do. You will see how empathetic and accommodating the other person is right off the bat and you need someone who is accommodating and accepting in your life- not the opposite.
Finally, (cliche time) the golden rule is that there are no rules. Everyone will try to tell you this and that rule, "never take someone to x for date number y", "always send a follow up message saying z", "Make sure you ask about i, j, k." Consider them, but don't feel compelled. Use your own experiences as the best teacher. Be your own person. The most valuable commodities in dating, and what drive people wild, are individuality and authenticity.
posted by incolorinred at 9:56 AM on December 28, 2014 [3 favorites]
I agree with Harvey Kilobit upthread - first OKC dates should be seen as preliminary meet-ups. I like to go for day time coffee - that keeps it short, inexpensive, with low expectations, and the caffeine helps keep the energy up. Grabbing a coffee and walking together is even better. After a half hour, you'll both know whether you find the other person interesting enough to go out on a date.
After that, my preferred first date is lunch. Again - low expectation, reasonably inexpensive, and an opportunity to chat more in depth.
This is a pleasant method for getting to know people, and allows some time for a spark to develop before the possibility of sex is even on the horizon - (the spark isn't always immediate in my experience).
And definitely be upfront if you're having trouble hearing them, or if things are awkward - I LOVE people who are direct (and a bit jokey) about life's foibles.
posted by jenmakes at 11:30 AM on December 28, 2014 [1 favorite]
After that, my preferred first date is lunch. Again - low expectation, reasonably inexpensive, and an opportunity to chat more in depth.
This is a pleasant method for getting to know people, and allows some time for a spark to develop before the possibility of sex is even on the horizon - (the spark isn't always immediate in my experience).
And definitely be upfront if you're having trouble hearing them, or if things are awkward - I LOVE people who are direct (and a bit jokey) about life's foibles.
posted by jenmakes at 11:30 AM on December 28, 2014 [1 favorite]
Out of those 25 dates I’ve been on in the last three months, there’ve been only maybe three or so people whom I’d have liked to see again, and out of those three, I’ve managed to go on second dates with two of them.
Anyway, is it just a law of nature that 90%+ of all internet dates’ll never go anywhere?
Yeah, even in the days before internet dating, it wasn't all that odd to have a bunch of times when you went on one or two dates, and that was it. And, IME, now that you can easily find more people and arrange more first dates, the numbers have shifted even further towards more first dates not going much of anywhere. Generally speaking, you're fine here, totally normal.
1) given that I’m pretty hard of hearing, it’s a coin flip as to whether I’ll be able to understand my date and have conversation flow smoothly. [. . . ] I’m not sure how to manage this.
I think it's OK to mention that you're hard of hearing early on in the date, especially if you're actually having trouble understanding your date. Just a casual, "I'm sorry, I didn't catch that, I'm actually a little hard of hearing." I get that maybe you don't want to make a Big Deal of your partial disability, but most people probably won't make a big deal out of it if you don't, most people won't think less of you or mock you (and if they do, they're big jerks and good riddance), it could actually take your conversation to some interesting places, and possibly you and your date can figure out ways to improve the situation. Of course, if it's more about the pitch or timbre or your date's voice, there may not be much you can do about it.
2) even in the cases where (1) isn’t an issue, I feel a little detached and checked out during my dates – I’m not hurting for options, so unless I really, really, really like the other person (which has only been the case around thrice) I don't feel like I have to try very hard. By that, I mean I feel like I’m putting the onus on the other person to impress me and go out of their way to show that they like me – sure, I’ll be friendly and polite and so on, but I don’t feel compelled to go out of my way to flirt with them or something.
Well, on the one hand, given that OKC dates are basically blind dates, I think it's pretty normal to maybe be a little reserved and detached in the initial stages of a first date - you really barely know each other, you want to gather some evidence that the person you're out with isn't a total psychopath before you open up.
On the other hand, yeah, it's entirely possible that your awareness of your myriad of options is making you treat the date maybe a liiiiiiiiiittle too casually, and that you are signaling this in your behavior, by doing things like leaning away from your date (especially with arms folded), not looking at them, looking around the room a bunch, fiddling with the silverware, not making much of an effort to keep the conversation going, stuff like that. Which can all be read as signals that you're not interested in them, which can create a sort of feedback loop, where you act disinterested, so your date figures, "Well, he's not interested, so no point in me investing a lot of effort into the date myself", and the whole thing winds up "meh."
Tying in with some of your other questions, what is it that makes you decide you "really, really, really like" the person you're on a date with? Especially in the early stages of the date? Thinking about this may help clarify some things in your own head about why you choose who to go on dates with and how you behave on the date.
I’ve realized that I don’t really know how to flirt
Me neither, and I've got 20 years on you. Not so much flirting intentionally, anyway. And I still manage to go on dates and have relationships. It's OK if you never really develop this "skill." Being genuinely interested in the other person, and showing that by actually processing and responding to the things they say will do you just fine. Eye contact helps, too.
To be honest, I’m not sure if that’s something that I can even make happen, is it? Is it just either there or it isn’t? Does it grow out of sexual interest on my part or something like that?
Less of an either/or situation, more of a mixture or "it depends" kinda thing, IME. ("Depends on what?", you ask? "Beats the hell outta me", I reply. Partly pheromones, I suspect, which is not something you or your date have any damn control over.) I mean, I don't think you can make it happen (and approaching it as something you can MAKE happen may be a dangerous road to go down - more on that in a minute), but yeah, sometimes it's "ZAP!!" right from the get go, other times the ZAP takes some time to develop. For now, until you get some more experience under your belt, I wouldn't over-think this. Just go on more dates and see what happens.
I just find it very difficult to be attracted to someone I barely know
Nothing wrong with this, you're fine.
the whole assembly-line nature of it makes everyone seem interchangeable.
Sort of contradicting my own "get more experience" advice above, but going on fewer dates - or at least not so many so quickly - might make this feel less assembly-line to you.
I mean, dating in general is kind of about finding a sort of personal balance point - on the one hand, there's an element of "playing the odds" to it, where since most dates aren't really going to go anywhere, the more people you date the better chance you (theoretically) have of finding a good match, but on the other hand going on a lot of dates that don't go anywhere can be emotionally and psychologically draining and frustrating enough that you might just give up.
I get that right now you're in the first excited flush of "Whoa, awesome, there are people out there actually willing to go out with me!!!", but if you're feeling that it's all a bit too mechanical, I think that's a sign that you should slow down a little, go on fewer dates, but with the people you like better.
I feel a little at odds with the cultural norm that, as a dude, I should be sleeping around or otherwise banging as many women as possible and not calling them again or whatever the flavor of the day is.
Good.
Also, you are FAR from the only dude who feels this way about these cultural norms. There's nothing wrong with you.
This is, bluntly, a bullshit idea that is part of what people are referring to when they talk about how we live in a sexist and/or patriarchal society.
It is, of course, WAY too fucking complex a subject to go into detail here, but my short opinion is that the cultural norm functions as 1) as way to excuse shitty behavior from men, so they don't have to face the consequences of their actions, 2) a way for men to maintain an unjustified dominance over women (and not needing to face the consequences is definitely one of the ways to establish dominance), and 3) a way to sell us crap - since a lot of men are worried that they're not living up to this supposed "ideal" it's an easy way for advertisers to push our buttons and convince us that if we only buy this beer/razor/hair gel/car, we'll get laid a lot more.
who are these people who seemingly end up taking most of their first dates home with them,
Often, fictional.
I mean, sex on the first date (or on the first meeting) definitely happens, but given the cultural assumption that dudes are aiming to fuck anything that moves, there's no small amount of pressure on us to claim that it's happening even when it isn't. Because then we're "real" men. And commercials and TV shows and movies are of course, totally made up in the first place.
Worth thinking about where and when and how you're picking up these stories of guys getting laid on the first date.
I think it's also worth noting that a lot of the "sex with minimal effort" stories you hear about may be happening in the context of parties and going to certain clubs and bars where a relatively high percentage of people there are open to the idea of hooking up that night; maybe not so much in dinner-and-a-movie "date" dates situation. And also maybe in the context of people slightly younger than you, still in college, which is kind of a different dynamic than people in their mid-20's.
and what are they doing that I’m not?
OK, this ties back to my earlier point about being careful about the idea that sparks and/or sex is something you can make happen. Because, yeah, of course women are in some ways biologically different from men, and they have their own slightly different set of cultural gender "norms" they've been raised under.
But they're not, y'know, aliens from another planet. They're still just human beings, more like you than not.
Which means that they should have an equal say in the decision about whether to have sex with a guy on first dates - you can't necessarily figure that the guy is doing anything besides being lucky enough to be the right person in the right place at the right time.
And it also means that they're individuals, there's no Secret Woman Code, no set of things to say or behaviors or actions that will raise your chances of hooking up ASAP with any woman you go out with. One woman might think that the way you push your glasses up your nose is adorable, the next loves your smile and sense of humor, the next just thinks you have a great ass, and any one or more of these things could be the thing that makes them think, "Yeah, I'm willing to go home with him tonight." And to repeat, this doesn't happen because women are a mysterious and unpredictable Other - it happens because they're individual unique people, just like you have your own individual set of reasons why you "really, really, really like" some people you go out with more than others.
Thinking that there is such a code could easily be the first step on the road to some serious misogyny and Pick-Up Artist (PUA) bullshit. Because the supposed foolproof "codes" don't work, and it's really easy to blame the women for being un-cooperative when they don't.
but it seems like the universal standard, more or less, is to have some kind of OMG AMAZING spark or connection on the first date, or move on, which seems a little silly, but okay, whatever.
Yeah, this is a thing that tends to be another cultural "norm", for all genders. But keep in mind that the women you're dating are carrying part of the load here, too - it's up to each woman to consider whether Immediate Spark is necessary, and if it is, for them, and you and her don't have that immediate spark, well . . . . it's not that either of you are Right or Wrong, you just have different expectations for a relationship, and that's OK.
And again, you can't really (and shouldn't really try to) make or convince or persuade someone who feels this way to give you a second shot. Yes, it's a shame that some women (and men, for that matter, so, y'know, people) aren't willing to stretch things out a little longer to see if anything develops, but they have their own reasons for doing that, and you have to respect their decision. This can be one of the tough things about dating - learning through experience to kinda let this stuff roll off your back, let it go and not let it bother you so much. To realize that likely you didn't do anything wrong, and you likely might not have a way to convince someone to get off the fence.
How can I tell if I’m doing something off-putting? I’ve found myself wishing for some way I could get impartial feedback… but I don’t really know where to turn for that.
If you have platonic women friends, their 2 cents might be useful, especially with body language and some behavioral things that you might not have noticed yourself doing. But again, women are individuals, so it's entirely possible that one will say, "Beards equals awesome", and another will say, "Beards are foul" and you're sitting there thinking, "Well, shit, beard or no beard, which is it?" Which is just another sign that there's nothing that holds true for ALL women, so you're just gonna have to muddle though a lot of it on your own, just like the rest of us.
You'll be fine.
posted by soundguy99 at 1:38 PM on December 28, 2014 [3 favorites]
Anyway, is it just a law of nature that 90%+ of all internet dates’ll never go anywhere?
Yeah, even in the days before internet dating, it wasn't all that odd to have a bunch of times when you went on one or two dates, and that was it. And, IME, now that you can easily find more people and arrange more first dates, the numbers have shifted even further towards more first dates not going much of anywhere. Generally speaking, you're fine here, totally normal.
1) given that I’m pretty hard of hearing, it’s a coin flip as to whether I’ll be able to understand my date and have conversation flow smoothly. [. . . ] I’m not sure how to manage this.
I think it's OK to mention that you're hard of hearing early on in the date, especially if you're actually having trouble understanding your date. Just a casual, "I'm sorry, I didn't catch that, I'm actually a little hard of hearing." I get that maybe you don't want to make a Big Deal of your partial disability, but most people probably won't make a big deal out of it if you don't, most people won't think less of you or mock you (and if they do, they're big jerks and good riddance), it could actually take your conversation to some interesting places, and possibly you and your date can figure out ways to improve the situation. Of course, if it's more about the pitch or timbre or your date's voice, there may not be much you can do about it.
2) even in the cases where (1) isn’t an issue, I feel a little detached and checked out during my dates – I’m not hurting for options, so unless I really, really, really like the other person (which has only been the case around thrice) I don't feel like I have to try very hard. By that, I mean I feel like I’m putting the onus on the other person to impress me and go out of their way to show that they like me – sure, I’ll be friendly and polite and so on, but I don’t feel compelled to go out of my way to flirt with them or something.
Well, on the one hand, given that OKC dates are basically blind dates, I think it's pretty normal to maybe be a little reserved and detached in the initial stages of a first date - you really barely know each other, you want to gather some evidence that the person you're out with isn't a total psychopath before you open up.
On the other hand, yeah, it's entirely possible that your awareness of your myriad of options is making you treat the date maybe a liiiiiiiiiittle too casually, and that you are signaling this in your behavior, by doing things like leaning away from your date (especially with arms folded), not looking at them, looking around the room a bunch, fiddling with the silverware, not making much of an effort to keep the conversation going, stuff like that. Which can all be read as signals that you're not interested in them, which can create a sort of feedback loop, where you act disinterested, so your date figures, "Well, he's not interested, so no point in me investing a lot of effort into the date myself", and the whole thing winds up "meh."
Tying in with some of your other questions, what is it that makes you decide you "really, really, really like" the person you're on a date with? Especially in the early stages of the date? Thinking about this may help clarify some things in your own head about why you choose who to go on dates with and how you behave on the date.
I’ve realized that I don’t really know how to flirt
Me neither, and I've got 20 years on you. Not so much flirting intentionally, anyway. And I still manage to go on dates and have relationships. It's OK if you never really develop this "skill." Being genuinely interested in the other person, and showing that by actually processing and responding to the things they say will do you just fine. Eye contact helps, too.
To be honest, I’m not sure if that’s something that I can even make happen, is it? Is it just either there or it isn’t? Does it grow out of sexual interest on my part or something like that?
Less of an either/or situation, more of a mixture or "it depends" kinda thing, IME. ("Depends on what?", you ask? "Beats the hell outta me", I reply. Partly pheromones, I suspect, which is not something you or your date have any damn control over.) I mean, I don't think you can make it happen (and approaching it as something you can MAKE happen may be a dangerous road to go down - more on that in a minute), but yeah, sometimes it's "ZAP!!" right from the get go, other times the ZAP takes some time to develop. For now, until you get some more experience under your belt, I wouldn't over-think this. Just go on more dates and see what happens.
I just find it very difficult to be attracted to someone I barely know
Nothing wrong with this, you're fine.
the whole assembly-line nature of it makes everyone seem interchangeable.
Sort of contradicting my own "get more experience" advice above, but going on fewer dates - or at least not so many so quickly - might make this feel less assembly-line to you.
I mean, dating in general is kind of about finding a sort of personal balance point - on the one hand, there's an element of "playing the odds" to it, where since most dates aren't really going to go anywhere, the more people you date the better chance you (theoretically) have of finding a good match, but on the other hand going on a lot of dates that don't go anywhere can be emotionally and psychologically draining and frustrating enough that you might just give up.
I get that right now you're in the first excited flush of "Whoa, awesome, there are people out there actually willing to go out with me!!!", but if you're feeling that it's all a bit too mechanical, I think that's a sign that you should slow down a little, go on fewer dates, but with the people you like better.
I feel a little at odds with the cultural norm that, as a dude, I should be sleeping around or otherwise banging as many women as possible and not calling them again or whatever the flavor of the day is.
Good.
Also, you are FAR from the only dude who feels this way about these cultural norms. There's nothing wrong with you.
This is, bluntly, a bullshit idea that is part of what people are referring to when they talk about how we live in a sexist and/or patriarchal society.
It is, of course, WAY too fucking complex a subject to go into detail here, but my short opinion is that the cultural norm functions as 1) as way to excuse shitty behavior from men, so they don't have to face the consequences of their actions, 2) a way for men to maintain an unjustified dominance over women (and not needing to face the consequences is definitely one of the ways to establish dominance), and 3) a way to sell us crap - since a lot of men are worried that they're not living up to this supposed "ideal" it's an easy way for advertisers to push our buttons and convince us that if we only buy this beer/razor/hair gel/car, we'll get laid a lot more.
who are these people who seemingly end up taking most of their first dates home with them,
Often, fictional.
I mean, sex on the first date (or on the first meeting) definitely happens, but given the cultural assumption that dudes are aiming to fuck anything that moves, there's no small amount of pressure on us to claim that it's happening even when it isn't. Because then we're "real" men. And commercials and TV shows and movies are of course, totally made up in the first place.
Worth thinking about where and when and how you're picking up these stories of guys getting laid on the first date.
I think it's also worth noting that a lot of the "sex with minimal effort" stories you hear about may be happening in the context of parties and going to certain clubs and bars where a relatively high percentage of people there are open to the idea of hooking up that night; maybe not so much in dinner-and-a-movie "date" dates situation. And also maybe in the context of people slightly younger than you, still in college, which is kind of a different dynamic than people in their mid-20's.
and what are they doing that I’m not?
OK, this ties back to my earlier point about being careful about the idea that sparks and/or sex is something you can make happen. Because, yeah, of course women are in some ways biologically different from men, and they have their own slightly different set of cultural gender "norms" they've been raised under.
But they're not, y'know, aliens from another planet. They're still just human beings, more like you than not.
Which means that they should have an equal say in the decision about whether to have sex with a guy on first dates - you can't necessarily figure that the guy is doing anything besides being lucky enough to be the right person in the right place at the right time.
And it also means that they're individuals, there's no Secret Woman Code, no set of things to say or behaviors or actions that will raise your chances of hooking up ASAP with any woman you go out with. One woman might think that the way you push your glasses up your nose is adorable, the next loves your smile and sense of humor, the next just thinks you have a great ass, and any one or more of these things could be the thing that makes them think, "Yeah, I'm willing to go home with him tonight." And to repeat, this doesn't happen because women are a mysterious and unpredictable Other - it happens because they're individual unique people, just like you have your own individual set of reasons why you "really, really, really like" some people you go out with more than others.
Thinking that there is such a code could easily be the first step on the road to some serious misogyny and Pick-Up Artist (PUA) bullshit. Because the supposed foolproof "codes" don't work, and it's really easy to blame the women for being un-cooperative when they don't.
but it seems like the universal standard, more or less, is to have some kind of OMG AMAZING spark or connection on the first date, or move on, which seems a little silly, but okay, whatever.
Yeah, this is a thing that tends to be another cultural "norm", for all genders. But keep in mind that the women you're dating are carrying part of the load here, too - it's up to each woman to consider whether Immediate Spark is necessary, and if it is, for them, and you and her don't have that immediate spark, well . . . . it's not that either of you are Right or Wrong, you just have different expectations for a relationship, and that's OK.
And again, you can't really (and shouldn't really try to) make or convince or persuade someone who feels this way to give you a second shot. Yes, it's a shame that some women (and men, for that matter, so, y'know, people) aren't willing to stretch things out a little longer to see if anything develops, but they have their own reasons for doing that, and you have to respect their decision. This can be one of the tough things about dating - learning through experience to kinda let this stuff roll off your back, let it go and not let it bother you so much. To realize that likely you didn't do anything wrong, and you likely might not have a way to convince someone to get off the fence.
How can I tell if I’m doing something off-putting? I’ve found myself wishing for some way I could get impartial feedback… but I don’t really know where to turn for that.
If you have platonic women friends, their 2 cents might be useful, especially with body language and some behavioral things that you might not have noticed yourself doing. But again, women are individuals, so it's entirely possible that one will say, "Beards equals awesome", and another will say, "Beards are foul" and you're sitting there thinking, "Well, shit, beard or no beard, which is it?" Which is just another sign that there's nothing that holds true for ALL women, so you're just gonna have to muddle though a lot of it on your own, just like the rest of us.
You'll be fine.
posted by soundguy99 at 1:38 PM on December 28, 2014 [3 favorites]
Anyway, is it just a law of nature that 90%+ of all internet dates’ll never go anywhere?
FTFY... but seriously a thousand times yes. I am cis hetero female in my mid-twenties, and to me this is the #1 sucky thing about being single: not "third-wheeling" with my couple friends, not loneliness, not lack of sex or even intimacy. Just the idea that I have to go out and make conversation with people who probably won't like talking about the things I like to talk about, or who think they're better than me, or who think I'm better than them and have some kind of complex about it, or who don't think I'm funny, or who suck at listening and asking questions so I'm doing all the legwork... dating is such a drag. And I'm an extrovert! I usually like people!
Sometimes it's helpful to step back and think about what you're actually looking for here: someone you can sit across the dinner table with, not once or twice but potentially hundreds or thousands of times. And then not just to sit across the dinner table, but to get naked and be sexual and intimate, and to meet each other's psychological needs. And then not just that person, but that person, who is geographically proximate, who's also looking for the same things, who's worked through his or her own emotional baggage and is ready to actually commit... essentially you're looking for lightning to strike the same place twice on at least, I don't know, five different dimensions.
All this to say: it shouldn't be easy. there are so very many ways a person can be wrong for you. So many people are in bad or dead-end relationships. Because it is hard. But - the silver lining - it really is just a numbers game. You're doing the right things by putting yourself out there. The more you do it, the better your odds.
Don't be afraid to fail. I've been on dates and even in relationships with great guys who I blew off or screwed up or failed to follow through with. Sometimes it had nothing to do with the guy; it was my own shit. Good guys have done the same to me- though surely I didn't think they were good guys at the time. (Sidenote: don't burn your bridges.)
One final thought with respect to that coup de foudre feeling: I think this is what gets a lot of people through the initial stages of the relationship. It's the carrot, the chemical reward in the brain that makes us willing to compromise and put someone else before ourselves before we know them enough to love them. And for sure- it is great. But I have several friends in wonderful relationships for whom this developed slowly, over the course of weeks or months, with intention--because they knew this was the person they wanted to try with. And that's OK too. For other people (or you!) that feeling might be important. Just be honest with yourself about what you need.
posted by ista at 7:03 PM on December 28, 2014 [5 favorites]
FTFY... but seriously a thousand times yes. I am cis hetero female in my mid-twenties, and to me this is the #1 sucky thing about being single: not "third-wheeling" with my couple friends, not loneliness, not lack of sex or even intimacy. Just the idea that I have to go out and make conversation with people who probably won't like talking about the things I like to talk about, or who think they're better than me, or who think I'm better than them and have some kind of complex about it, or who don't think I'm funny, or who suck at listening and asking questions so I'm doing all the legwork... dating is such a drag. And I'm an extrovert! I usually like people!
Sometimes it's helpful to step back and think about what you're actually looking for here: someone you can sit across the dinner table with, not once or twice but potentially hundreds or thousands of times. And then not just to sit across the dinner table, but to get naked and be sexual and intimate, and to meet each other's psychological needs. And then not just that person, but that person, who is geographically proximate, who's also looking for the same things, who's worked through his or her own emotional baggage and is ready to actually commit... essentially you're looking for lightning to strike the same place twice on at least, I don't know, five different dimensions.
All this to say: it shouldn't be easy. there are so very many ways a person can be wrong for you. So many people are in bad or dead-end relationships. Because it is hard. But - the silver lining - it really is just a numbers game. You're doing the right things by putting yourself out there. The more you do it, the better your odds.
Don't be afraid to fail. I've been on dates and even in relationships with great guys who I blew off or screwed up or failed to follow through with. Sometimes it had nothing to do with the guy; it was my own shit. Good guys have done the same to me- though surely I didn't think they were good guys at the time. (Sidenote: don't burn your bridges.)
One final thought with respect to that coup de foudre feeling: I think this is what gets a lot of people through the initial stages of the relationship. It's the carrot, the chemical reward in the brain that makes us willing to compromise and put someone else before ourselves before we know them enough to love them. And for sure- it is great. But I have several friends in wonderful relationships for whom this developed slowly, over the course of weeks or months, with intention--because they knew this was the person they wanted to try with. And that's OK too. For other people (or you!) that feeling might be important. Just be honest with yourself about what you need.
posted by ista at 7:03 PM on December 28, 2014 [5 favorites]
"Anyway, is it just a law of nature that 90%+ of all internet dates’ll never go anywhere?"
pretty much yes. keep trying, it's an numbers game.
posted by zdravo at 6:33 AM on December 29, 2014
pretty much yes. keep trying, it's an numbers game.
posted by zdravo at 6:33 AM on December 29, 2014
I haven't online dated, but I wanted to touch on your later points, namely:
3). I don't really know how to flirt, either, but it seems that I am able to do it. Just before I planned a recent overseas trip, a devastating breakup-like event happened in my life. It really really hurt me terribly. I couldn't cancel the trip, so I went anyway. While I was interacting with people, I found I was suddenly flirting subconsciously, with the result being that I was receiving much more sexual attention than I was used to. What changed? Namely, that I'd tried to go on this vacation in the best frame of mind I could; happy, interested, a good listener. Usually, I was pretty closed off and shy, but I made an effort to really interact with people. I had to fake it, really, because inside I was still struggling, but I found that 'faking it til I made it' really really worked. In the end, I didn't need to 'flirt' -- just being happy and engaging resulted in a lot (it was night and day!) of attention.
As for 'the Spark' -- I don't really believe in it. At least for me-- I don't feel I've ever had it-- I feel that when people refer to 'the Spark' it's really just a visceral reaction to something physical in the person they like. Likewise, I feel 'the Spark' can sometimes be damaging; sometimes people are alluring because they push your buttons, but aren't good for you. Exciting, dramatic people often fit this bill, but their lack of stability is what makes them so desirable.
And I don't believe 'lack of Spark' means anything-- I had a few people who were into me and obviously felt some kind of spark for me-- but because I wasn't open to the idea of a relationship, I didn't really consider them and felt no spark for them. Sometimes, the spark is a lie. Later on, I fell crazy in love with someone I felt I had absolutely no 'spark' with at first (he felt there was on his side, though)-- but part of this was because I was really closed off to the idea of loving someone other than this person I liked, and I was sabotaging my own connection with anybody else because of it.
I really had to fight through my ambivalence to initially make a connection, because my hurt was preventing me from moving forward. For me, I had a specific 'type' in my head, partially fueled by the person I was in love with, and it was hard to pull myself out of that funk and see a future with someone else. I mean, letting go of a 'type' was one of the best things I did for myself.
And part of your ambivalence, is because of course, you don't know them. So you go on a date, and you do the inevitable split-second looking forward thing everyone does on a first date, and you think, "Gee. Can I see this person being my boyfriend/girlfriend?" And of course part of you cannot since you only just met them, and barely know them, and all you know is that they don't look great with spinach in their teeth. You don't know how they'll react when you dance around in your PJs cutely, or if try you steal a fry from their plate, because you're in that really formal weird 'getting to know' phase and everyone is acting a little weird and on their best behaviour. So, at least for me-- part of my hesitation was that. I couldn't see a future with anyone, but it was kind of because I was bailing before I truly got to know them. I found that the better I got to know someone, the more I was able to look forward and fill in those gaps, until you can sit there and say, 'oh, I can see this person as my partner!' It really just takes time.
The 'not being attracted to someone I barely know' thing-- I understand this completely and it resonates with me a lot. It's normal, and I'm similar to you. For me, attraction goes hand in hand with personality-- I can objectively see the attraction with people but I barely register it and it takes someone ridiculously good looking for me to even react. Once I get to know someone and I like them, it's like a switch is flipped and suddenly I see all these things that I missed before. Again, it's time that is the cure to this.
and 4) It's not 'weird' to not want to love them and leave them. I mean, ask yourself if you feel like you're missing out because you want to be that guy deep down, or because you think you're expected to be that guy?
Sure, for some people, sex is just sex. It doesn't necessarily need an emotional connection, or even a connection at all. It's a very positive expression of mutual desire and nothing else. For some other people, sex is all about validation, and that's the reason they might do it. And for others still, sex is about connection, and the thought of fooling around or having a one night stand is unfathomable. Who are these people? It doesn't matter, they just think different. What are they doing different? It really depends. Some people put their expectations for sex out there on the first date and it works for them, sometimes people lie about their intentions, some people are charming, sometimes people are just in the right place at the right time.
None of the reasons to have sex are wrong/right-- they're just different. It doesn't really matter what other men are doing, or even what you're 'supposed' to do. You do you.
For me, whenever I was faced with a more casual sexual encounter, I always felt like I did it for the wrong reasons (validation) and so I stopped doing that, and felt a lot better. As long as you do it for the right reasons (whatever those might be for you) then there's no wrong or right. And while I don't have to be 'in love' to do it, for me, sex is a huge trust thing, so at the very least I need to know someone for a little while. I mean, for me, part of the reason I fell in love with my boyfriend is because I trusted him enough to go there, and while it wasn't about love at all the first time we got together, it was still about connection.
I mean, I'm not an expert, since I've only had two major relationships and a handful of dates, but if I had to give advice, I'd say: Push through your dating ambivalence if you had a pleasant first date, you feel they are attractive and enjoy their personality. Re-asses your feelings after a week or two, see how your dynamic changes, and if you start to feel some kind of attraction and connection. If you're on a similar page, continue forward towards the physical. If there are red flags or still feel 'meh'-- pull the plug.
Don't feel rushed, either to get to know someone, or to bed someone, or to feel something. And remember, Hollywood kinda lies to us.
Good luck!
posted by Dimes at 9:31 AM on December 30, 2014 [1 favorite]
3). I don't really know how to flirt, either, but it seems that I am able to do it. Just before I planned a recent overseas trip, a devastating breakup-like event happened in my life. It really really hurt me terribly. I couldn't cancel the trip, so I went anyway. While I was interacting with people, I found I was suddenly flirting subconsciously, with the result being that I was receiving much more sexual attention than I was used to. What changed? Namely, that I'd tried to go on this vacation in the best frame of mind I could; happy, interested, a good listener. Usually, I was pretty closed off and shy, but I made an effort to really interact with people. I had to fake it, really, because inside I was still struggling, but I found that 'faking it til I made it' really really worked. In the end, I didn't need to 'flirt' -- just being happy and engaging resulted in a lot (it was night and day!) of attention.
As for 'the Spark' -- I don't really believe in it. At least for me-- I don't feel I've ever had it-- I feel that when people refer to 'the Spark' it's really just a visceral reaction to something physical in the person they like. Likewise, I feel 'the Spark' can sometimes be damaging; sometimes people are alluring because they push your buttons, but aren't good for you. Exciting, dramatic people often fit this bill, but their lack of stability is what makes them so desirable.
And I don't believe 'lack of Spark' means anything-- I had a few people who were into me and obviously felt some kind of spark for me-- but because I wasn't open to the idea of a relationship, I didn't really consider them and felt no spark for them. Sometimes, the spark is a lie. Later on, I fell crazy in love with someone I felt I had absolutely no 'spark' with at first (he felt there was on his side, though)-- but part of this was because I was really closed off to the idea of loving someone other than this person I liked, and I was sabotaging my own connection with anybody else because of it.
I really had to fight through my ambivalence to initially make a connection, because my hurt was preventing me from moving forward. For me, I had a specific 'type' in my head, partially fueled by the person I was in love with, and it was hard to pull myself out of that funk and see a future with someone else. I mean, letting go of a 'type' was one of the best things I did for myself.
And part of your ambivalence, is because of course, you don't know them. So you go on a date, and you do the inevitable split-second looking forward thing everyone does on a first date, and you think, "Gee. Can I see this person being my boyfriend/girlfriend?" And of course part of you cannot since you only just met them, and barely know them, and all you know is that they don't look great with spinach in their teeth. You don't know how they'll react when you dance around in your PJs cutely, or if try you steal a fry from their plate, because you're in that really formal weird 'getting to know' phase and everyone is acting a little weird and on their best behaviour. So, at least for me-- part of my hesitation was that. I couldn't see a future with anyone, but it was kind of because I was bailing before I truly got to know them. I found that the better I got to know someone, the more I was able to look forward and fill in those gaps, until you can sit there and say, 'oh, I can see this person as my partner!' It really just takes time.
The 'not being attracted to someone I barely know' thing-- I understand this completely and it resonates with me a lot. It's normal, and I'm similar to you. For me, attraction goes hand in hand with personality-- I can objectively see the attraction with people but I barely register it and it takes someone ridiculously good looking for me to even react. Once I get to know someone and I like them, it's like a switch is flipped and suddenly I see all these things that I missed before. Again, it's time that is the cure to this.
and 4) It's not 'weird' to not want to love them and leave them. I mean, ask yourself if you feel like you're missing out because you want to be that guy deep down, or because you think you're expected to be that guy?
Sure, for some people, sex is just sex. It doesn't necessarily need an emotional connection, or even a connection at all. It's a very positive expression of mutual desire and nothing else. For some other people, sex is all about validation, and that's the reason they might do it. And for others still, sex is about connection, and the thought of fooling around or having a one night stand is unfathomable. Who are these people? It doesn't matter, they just think different. What are they doing different? It really depends. Some people put their expectations for sex out there on the first date and it works for them, sometimes people lie about their intentions, some people are charming, sometimes people are just in the right place at the right time.
None of the reasons to have sex are wrong/right-- they're just different. It doesn't really matter what other men are doing, or even what you're 'supposed' to do. You do you.
For me, whenever I was faced with a more casual sexual encounter, I always felt like I did it for the wrong reasons (validation) and so I stopped doing that, and felt a lot better. As long as you do it for the right reasons (whatever those might be for you) then there's no wrong or right. And while I don't have to be 'in love' to do it, for me, sex is a huge trust thing, so at the very least I need to know someone for a little while. I mean, for me, part of the reason I fell in love with my boyfriend is because I trusted him enough to go there, and while it wasn't about love at all the first time we got together, it was still about connection.
I mean, I'm not an expert, since I've only had two major relationships and a handful of dates, but if I had to give advice, I'd say: Push through your dating ambivalence if you had a pleasant first date, you feel they are attractive and enjoy their personality. Re-asses your feelings after a week or two, see how your dynamic changes, and if you start to feel some kind of attraction and connection. If you're on a similar page, continue forward towards the physical. If there are red flags or still feel 'meh'-- pull the plug.
Don't feel rushed, either to get to know someone, or to bed someone, or to feel something. And remember, Hollywood kinda lies to us.
Good luck!
posted by Dimes at 9:31 AM on December 30, 2014 [1 favorite]
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posted by Ironmouth at 10:43 PM on December 27, 2014