BART Queue Etiquette

December 3, 2014 5:56 PM

I'm new to the San Francisco Bay Area and take the BART system to work. I noticed that in the underground downtown stations, the spots where the doors are going to be are marked. So that's nice. Then the people make neat little lines around these spots. That's nice too. But then when a train comes, people on the line who don't want that train just stand there, and everyone else on the line has to figure out who's not moving and then chaotically stream around them.

My question: Are they rude for doing that or am I the rude one for rejecting this sham of a system and sneaking in ahead of the line? Do they all hate me? I just want a seat.

I've commuted on Chicago's CTA and NYC's subway system and from that point of view it's bizarre that someone would plant themselves in front of an open door and not either get on the train or get out of the way. But when in Rome do as the Romans do, which I can get with. But I don't really want to perform this charade and then not get a seat for my long-ass ride if no one else cares. Please enlighten me.

posted by bleep to Human Relations (15 answers total)

They're really not stepping aside? Most people do. That's odd. You need to step aside to let the people off before you can get on.

If they're not getting on the train, feel free to get on board (provided people who are "detraining" have done so).
posted by potsmokinghippieoverlord at 6:03 PM on December 3, 2014

CTA and MTA trains have three sets of doors per car. BART did things a little differently, adding more seats but having only two doors per car in their similarly-sized cars. While the added seats are nice, the missing door makes getting on and off the train more difficult. As such, large areas of the platform go unused, resulting in those ridiculous long lines, and it's also hard for someone in the middle of a crowded train to get off - especially when people are coming in from all sides at the door.

Now, it's easy to tell if someone in the line isn't getting on the train: they move up closer to the train and then signal in a subtle way that they're not getting on, often by stepping over a couple of inches but not so far that it looks like they're getting out of line. You will see this if you look. Just walk around them. It's not hard, and you'll get on the train.

Don't jump the queue, man. It's not a solution, you're making the problem worse. It disrespects everyone who was queuing orderly (and was there first), and it's especially bad for people trying to get off a train who were far away from the doors or who are blocked by the flood of people getting on. The more orderly the entrance into the train the better.

The BART District knows this is a problem. The new BART cars going into manufacturing will have three doors per side and are expected to ultimately (albeit after several years) alleviate much of this problem.
posted by eschatfische at 6:12 PM on December 3, 2014

Response by poster: No, the lines form on either side of the black box that marks where the door will be so people can get off. Although at downtown stations in the evening there's not many getting off.

In my month's worth of daily observation I have looked for any kind of signal of who's getting on the next train and who isn't and I could not see any.

It's also not true that CTA trains have 3 entrances, they only have 2.
posted by bleep at 6:15 PM on December 3, 2014

As someone who has commuted on BART in the past, I can agree that these lines are awfully weird. But I also have witnessed many people whom are not getting on that current train step to one side when a different train arrives. After about 3 seconds the boarding generally becomes a free-for-all anyhow. It probably depends on what stops you are getting on at, as when I got on at civic center there were more orderly lines (with people stepping aside) as opposed to the crazyness of powell, montgomery, and embarcadero. I think you might also need to accept the fact that during commute hours, very few people get seats and that sucks.
posted by ruhroh at 6:22 PM on December 3, 2014 [1 favorite]

What is rude depends on what is considered the standard behavior, doesn't it? And on BART, it's normal to wait in line for your train, especially at the downtown stops, but to step out of the way if it's not your train currently at the platform. I lived in SF for 7 years and commuted trans-bay for 2, and it never seemed to be a problem that there were people in the same line for a different train. Just go around them, chaotically or not. You're probably not going to get a seat anyway, getting on the train downtown, so it's not worth the dirty looks you'd get by going around the side.

Another reason to not shove your way through around the side is that the side areas are intended for people getting off the train. People will always do this anyway, but they are assholes. Don't be one of them!
posted by StrangerInAStrainedLand at 6:27 PM on December 3, 2014

You're technically right about the CTA trains - each individual car only has two doors. However, the CTA cars are substantially shorter (48' vs BART's 70'-75'), meaning that the CTA has three doors in the same amount of space on the platform that BART only has two (so there are far more spaces on the platform for entrance and exit on the CTA, and riders can disembark more quickly). I should have been more clear, but my point still stands.

I've ridden the BART nearly every day in San Francisco for almost a decade, and have frequently stood in the lines downtown during evening rush hour. Seriously, you can tell when someone's getting on a different train.

Also, as someone who has also *gotten off the trains* at the downtown stations during the evening commute, I have frequently been blocked by people pushing onto the train from three different directions, with nowhere to go to disembark, and that's infinitely more frustrating than discovering that people in line are waiting for another train and I have to walk around them.

Here is the secret to getting a seat: take the trains going in the other direction for a few stops (ie, if you're heading to the East Bay at night, head in the opposite direction down to 16th or 24th St Mission or even Glen Park.) Get off the train. Move to the spaces on the opposite platform for the head or tail car of your desired train heading back to San Francisco. There you go.
posted by eschatfische at 6:36 PM on December 3, 2014 [3 favorites]

Best answer: I've been taking BART for decades. People are dumb and do exactly what you're seeing. You have to be an "excuse me" person or just go around them. It's not changing, these BART riders are really attached to their spot where the door opens. They won't figure it out. An additional aggravation is that there are always people who purposefully snake in the door when it opens, in front of anybody who is also waiting or getting on at the same time.
posted by rhizome at 7:01 PM on December 3, 2014 [1 favorite]

Best answer: I've done this shtick for almost four years when I had my job. Some people will indeed stand subtly to the side of the line if the next train isn't theirs, but most people won't. I never figured it out: if you're not getting on the next train, then why are you in line...? Ugh.

Just follow the folks who ARE getting on the train. Don't jump the queue. I saw one young girl do it once with her friend, in front of this middle-aged guy, and he started yelling at her. The girl yelled back, and I had to get off the next stop to avoid listening to the resulting clusterfuck.

eschatfische's seat-snatching secret (get on the tail car) is one that I follow, though I don't go so far as to backtrack a few stops.
posted by curagea at 7:58 PM on December 3, 2014 [1 favorite]

Best answer: It's better to step to the side if it's not your train, but not everyone does it. I think an "excuse me" directed at people who don't step aside is totally appropriate -- norms of transit etiquette have to be enforced, gently, by the community. (I haven't come up with a polite way to remind people to take off their backpacks when the train is crowded.)
posted by unreadyhero at 8:02 PM on December 3, 2014 [1 favorite]

Best answer: As someone who lived in NYC and now takes BART daily this drives me crazy so you are not alone. It comes off as so, so incredibly rude and it is! I'm shocked to hear people in this thread say "most people subtly move the side" because in my experience this is a small minority. There are definitely people who just stand there, on purpose, in everyone's way, because... their pre-coffee asshole state compels them? Everyone else is usually staring deep into their phone.

Personally I just say "excuse me" and if I have to bump past them to get in the train well, don't stand in the damn door! It is bizarre. Not sure if you have noticed but they seem to be experimenting with different signage around the boarding zones to get people to stop doing what every single person in NYC figured out the first time they got on a train.
posted by bradbane at 8:33 PM on December 3, 2014 [1 favorite]

Response by poster: If I were them I'd just get rid of the boarding zone marks. If you don't know where the doors will be you can't line up in advance. When the train shows up people boarding move to the platform and everyone else hangs back. The line forms quickly around where the doors land. People stand aside to let people off. There's no confusion and no begrudging the ones who got ahead of you.

But okay, I don't live there anymore and apparently people do care so I will do it their way. It's a small price to pay for an otherwise amazing place to live. Thanks for your feedback.
posted by bleep at 8:52 PM on December 3, 2014

Just keep your place in the line of people who are entering the train, and don't worry about the people you're moving around. Don't jump in front of the people who are also trying to get on the train, but moving around people who aren't trying to get on is par for the course.

The people who are waiting in line when it's not their train are waiting so they can be the first in line for when their train comes. Is this not obvious?
posted by verbyournouns at 9:29 PM on December 3, 2014 [1 favorite]

Some of the Japanese stations that serve multiple train lines from the same platform will actually have different colored lines painted on the platform so you can stand in the correct one for your train. I haven't ridden BART for 20 years; maybe they should try the same thing.

Can't be THAT crowded, though. I'd be afraid to stand blocking a train door here because the crowd would just sweep me into the wrong train.
posted by ctmf at 11:01 PM on December 3, 2014

I don't think I've ever had a problem with the folks not getting on the train when I need to get on. It's obviously better if they step off to the side so they can step right back into the line (some do, some don't), but personally I pause a beat and if the person in front of me isn't moving either forward or to the side, I walk around them and keep moving because I assume they're getting the next train.

(What drives me mad is when a single line forms at the marker instead of the usual double line for the downtown stations, I don't want to skip the folks who are already lined up, but a single file line at rush hour doesn't work so well).
posted by TwoWordReview at 10:40 AM on December 4, 2014

Response by poster: Ok well I'm playing the game but I feel like a jerk. I hope you just get used to it.
posted by bleep at 6:52 PM on December 8, 2014