What happens when Mom breaks the rules?
September 8, 2014 6:16 PM Subscribe
My sister smokes pot recreationally. She has young kids who know about it and are really bothered by it. Where does a concerned aunt step in?
My sister's parenting style is very hands-off. She lets her kids do pretty much whatever they want and she also does whatever she wants. It's worked out beautifully for the most part because her kids are sweet and thoughtful people by nature. The issue that has cropped up is that she openly admits to them that she smokes pot and they are against it. In school they are taught it's wrong/illegal and they're very upset that their mom is breaking the law. These are young kids. They have come to myself and other family members wanting to talk about it, and I'm feeling helpless to actually do anything. My sister knows it bothers the kids (I've been there when they argue about it), and her response is to keep smoking and to tell the kids that it's a secret for their family and that they (the kids) are not allowed to tell anyone or talk about it with people at school. This strikes me as really problematic. I have no control over my sister's actions, so I'm not sure what I can do to make the situation better other than listen to the kids and tell them I understand. What is my responsibility here as their aunt?
Just as a side note: I don't believe she smokes pot around them. Just when she's out with friends.
My sister's parenting style is very hands-off. She lets her kids do pretty much whatever they want and she also does whatever she wants. It's worked out beautifully for the most part because her kids are sweet and thoughtful people by nature. The issue that has cropped up is that she openly admits to them that she smokes pot and they are against it. In school they are taught it's wrong/illegal and they're very upset that their mom is breaking the law. These are young kids. They have come to myself and other family members wanting to talk about it, and I'm feeling helpless to actually do anything. My sister knows it bothers the kids (I've been there when they argue about it), and her response is to keep smoking and to tell the kids that it's a secret for their family and that they (the kids) are not allowed to tell anyone or talk about it with people at school. This strikes me as really problematic. I have no control over my sister's actions, so I'm not sure what I can do to make the situation better other than listen to the kids and tell them I understand. What is my responsibility here as their aunt?
Just as a side note: I don't believe she smokes pot around them. Just when she's out with friends.
I remember being totally aghast when I first found out my dad had smoked weed, since I swallowed every word DARE had to say to me.
If I were your sister, I would give them a very frank talk about drugs from the perspective of a person who has used them, distinguishing between something like weed and something like heroin, and also emphasizing the practical reasons why adults are in a different place than kids with respect to drugs (including their still-developing brains and also the fact that federal financial aid can be impossible to get with a drug conviction). My dad did this for me around age 12 and I consider it a gold star parenting moment.
It might also be a good opportunity to discuss why uncritically believing everything you learn in school isn't necessarily good.
posted by showbiz_liz at 6:24 PM on September 8, 2014 [71 favorites]
If I were your sister, I would give them a very frank talk about drugs from the perspective of a person who has used them, distinguishing between something like weed and something like heroin, and also emphasizing the practical reasons why adults are in a different place than kids with respect to drugs (including their still-developing brains and also the fact that federal financial aid can be impossible to get with a drug conviction). My dad did this for me around age 12 and I consider it a gold star parenting moment.
It might also be a good opportunity to discuss why uncritically believing everything you learn in school isn't necessarily good.
posted by showbiz_liz at 6:24 PM on September 8, 2014 [71 favorites]
You're anonymous but it would be very helpful to know if you mean young kids like 4 or like 10. The answers would depend a lot.
Fwiw, I have friends who grew up with pothead parents in the 80s. No harm no foul.
posted by k8t at 6:25 PM on September 8, 2014 [4 favorites]
Fwiw, I have friends who grew up with pothead parents in the 80s. No harm no foul.
posted by k8t at 6:25 PM on September 8, 2014 [4 favorites]
I'd definitely suggest in passing to your sister that she stops mentioning it to her kids.
If it upsets them then now is not the time to be giving them the speech about making your own choices. Eventually that time will come and then she can discuss the issues with them.
As for you, just nod and agree and be there. It's a hard one, but it sounds like it'll work out in the end.
posted by Youremyworld at 6:29 PM on September 8, 2014 [3 favorites]
If it upsets them then now is not the time to be giving them the speech about making your own choices. Eventually that time will come and then she can discuss the issues with them.
As for you, just nod and agree and be there. It's a hard one, but it sounds like it'll work out in the end.
posted by Youremyworld at 6:29 PM on September 8, 2014 [3 favorites]
Part of this is that the kids are probably scared. "This is illegal" easily translates in a kid's mind to "Mom is going to go to jail and we're going to lose everything and be all alone if anyone finds out." Depending on where you live, and -- as is the unfortunate reality -- what your family's ethnic background is, you may not be in a lot of danger of this and may be able to explain to the kids that smoking being illegal is more likely to mean she'd have to pay a fine if the cops caught her.
You could explain that smoking weed is now legal in two US states and decriminalized in others, and that medical marijuana has helped people, so it's not an issue where everyone is on the same side.
You could also talk a little bit about how adulthood means being responsible for your decisions and that one thing you can do as an adult is weigh the risks and benefits of a decision you're going to make and decide whether you feel like it's safe/comfortable for you, and that right now the kids should follow rules and are right to, but being able to decide when to follow rules is a privilege the kids will have themselves when they are adults.
(n.b. this is my take as a non-parent.)
posted by capricorn at 6:43 PM on September 8, 2014 [21 favorites]
You could explain that smoking weed is now legal in two US states and decriminalized in others, and that medical marijuana has helped people, so it's not an issue where everyone is on the same side.
You could also talk a little bit about how adulthood means being responsible for your decisions and that one thing you can do as an adult is weigh the risks and benefits of a decision you're going to make and decide whether you feel like it's safe/comfortable for you, and that right now the kids should follow rules and are right to, but being able to decide when to follow rules is a privilege the kids will have themselves when they are adults.
(n.b. this is my take as a non-parent.)
posted by capricorn at 6:43 PM on September 8, 2014 [21 favorites]
I bet that the kids are scared and flipped out on some level. They can easily think "I was told drugs are unhealthy and illegal, oh no, mom's going to die or we're going to be taken away or she's going to be arrested." It sounds like you got to a point where you realized your job as an aunt is to listen to them, and talk to them—without undermining your sister. That sounds right. And thinking of them as unnerved or frightened might be helpful to you; preventing them from going down the "my mom is bad" or "my mom is a hypocrite" road would also be helpful to everyone. Them using this situation to undermine her authority or credibility as a parent is in appropriate. (We don't know anything about your sister and her parenting boundaries in general, so we can't speak to that.)
My parents grew pot and dried it in the oven, which I knew about in sixth or seventh grade; I certainly thought nothing of it, but those were simpler times, or something.
(They really do go for the kids in the schools quite strongly now; some of which is really good! Like, there's no greater look of horror right now than some pre-teen who spies someone with a cigarette. Great! Smoking rates are down. They certainly don't mention in school that a majority of Americans support legalization, and that almost 20 million teens and adults are thought to have smoked pot in the last month.)
(On preview: well yes, what Capricorn said!)
posted by RJ Reynolds at 6:46 PM on September 8, 2014 [6 favorites]
My parents grew pot and dried it in the oven, which I knew about in sixth or seventh grade; I certainly thought nothing of it, but those were simpler times, or something.
(They really do go for the kids in the schools quite strongly now; some of which is really good! Like, there's no greater look of horror right now than some pre-teen who spies someone with a cigarette. Great! Smoking rates are down. They certainly don't mention in school that a majority of Americans support legalization, and that almost 20 million teens and adults are thought to have smoked pot in the last month.)
(On preview: well yes, what Capricorn said!)
posted by RJ Reynolds at 6:46 PM on September 8, 2014 [6 favorites]
I think that you're on the right track with listening sympathetically and telling them that you understand. As grown-ups, we can understand the moral calculus that makes people think it's fine to smoke pot recreationally even though it's illegal, but little kids aren't necessarily in a developmental place where they can understand that reasoning. Little kids are often really black-and-white thinkers, and there's a whole stage of moral development where they're pretty obsessed with following the rules. They'll be able to deal with complexity and ambiguity as they get older, but they probably can't wrap their heads around that now. Nothing you're going to say is going to make it make sense to them. So I would tell them that you understand that it's upsetting to them, but that the important thing is that their mom loves them very much and takes good care of them and would never do anything to hurt them. And then maybe suggest to your sister that it's not fair to expect her kids to keep her secrets, because that seems to me to be a much bigger parenting fail than smoking a bit of pot.
(Also not a parent.)
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:46 PM on September 8, 2014 [3 favorites]
(Also not a parent.)
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:46 PM on September 8, 2014 [3 favorites]
My biggest concern is teaching the kids that there are family secrets they should not tell anyone about. I mean, nobody wants their kids spilling their embarrassing secrets (remember the episode of Malcolm in the Middle where Dewey writes an opera about this parents' arguments and discussions about gas in the bedroom?). However, I'd want to make sure the kids understood the difference between this and anyone telling them that it's a secret that they're playing this "special game" or that they have to keep it a secret if someone hurts them.
I'm not sure how to make that distinction, especially given that we don't know how old the kids are, but it would be a good idea to make sure kids get this difference.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 6:48 PM on September 8, 2014 [6 favorites]
I'm not sure how to make that distinction, especially given that we don't know how old the kids are, but it would be a good idea to make sure kids get this difference.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 6:48 PM on September 8, 2014 [6 favorites]
This really depends on how legally risky it is for your sister to use cannabis in her jurisdiction.
If there's a possibility that your sister's life would be upended if her children reported her to the wrong person, she shouldn't be open about it with them. Kids are unpredictable, and I'd bring that up with your sister.
If there's no real legal problem and she's not using cannabis to excess, I'd stay out of it.
posted by ripley_ at 6:50 PM on September 8, 2014 [2 favorites]
If there's a possibility that your sister's life would be upended if her children reported her to the wrong person, she shouldn't be open about it with them. Kids are unpredictable, and I'd bring that up with your sister.
If there's no real legal problem and she's not using cannabis to excess, I'd stay out of it.
posted by ripley_ at 6:50 PM on September 8, 2014 [2 favorites]
If the kids are upset it could just come out at school and that is a risk to talk to your sister about. Depending what they've heard about drugs they could think an overdose could happen at any moment and she could die. Or jail. Or never seeing their mom again. That is a responsibility and worry these children shouldn't have. She can hold off for a few years until she is the cool mom for smoking pot.
posted by AlexiaSky at 6:54 PM on September 8, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by AlexiaSky at 6:54 PM on September 8, 2014 [2 favorites]
"My sister knows it bothers the kids (I've been there when they argue about it), and her response is to keep smoking and to tell the kids that it's a secret for their family and that they (the kids) are not allowed to tell anyone or talk about it with people at school. "
Yeah, Jesus, this is like grooming them for predators (if they're younger elementary school).
I think you can tell your sister she either needs to accept that it is NOT a secret and let the kids talk about it as they wish, or she needs to KEEP HER OWN DAMN SECRET from the kids. It's monstrously unfair to burden children with adult secrets.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 7:01 PM on September 8, 2014 [58 favorites]
Yeah, Jesus, this is like grooming them for predators (if they're younger elementary school).
I think you can tell your sister she either needs to accept that it is NOT a secret and let the kids talk about it as they wish, or she needs to KEEP HER OWN DAMN SECRET from the kids. It's monstrously unfair to burden children with adult secrets.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 7:01 PM on September 8, 2014 [58 favorites]
My friends mom is a pothead. My friend had a LOT of experiences both sexual and drug in nature at WAY too young an age.
Your job is to offer the opposing viewpoint, framed thusly, "I know that you're bothered by the fact that Mom smokes. I agree with you, it's wrong and it's a bad idea, but she's an adult and she gets to decide how she wants to live her life. She's still a great mom and she loves you SO MUCH."
What you don't want is the kids narking her out. That would be bad. You need to sit down with your sister and say, "Look, smoke, don't smoke, that's on you. It's not fair to make the kids keep your secret for you. So tell them you're not going to talk about it with them anymore and stop making them feel responsible for something they can't control."
After that. all you can be is a responsible adult who really listens to the kids.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 7:07 PM on September 8, 2014 [6 favorites]
Your job is to offer the opposing viewpoint, framed thusly, "I know that you're bothered by the fact that Mom smokes. I agree with you, it's wrong and it's a bad idea, but she's an adult and she gets to decide how she wants to live her life. She's still a great mom and she loves you SO MUCH."
What you don't want is the kids narking her out. That would be bad. You need to sit down with your sister and say, "Look, smoke, don't smoke, that's on you. It's not fair to make the kids keep your secret for you. So tell them you're not going to talk about it with them anymore and stop making them feel responsible for something they can't control."
After that. all you can be is a responsible adult who really listens to the kids.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 7:07 PM on September 8, 2014 [6 favorites]
It's been my experience working in social services that when very young children (under 6) express concern about parents' drug use, it is because they are concerned about abandonment. It's worth reading up on child development in this area, and stepping in to address their needs age-appropriately. It's possible that your role may just need to be reassurance: "You can always talk to me, I will never get you in trouble, and if you need anything, I will always take care of you. I love you."
posted by juniperesque at 7:16 PM on September 8, 2014 [10 favorites]
posted by juniperesque at 7:16 PM on September 8, 2014 [10 favorites]
I think you should ignore the advice to butt out. In fact, I think you should butt in more and tell your sister that she's being an enormous asshat by putting her children in the position of keeping a secret like this. And be a pain in her ass, too, about this.
This is where I'm coming from: My parents were totally hands off too, generally. I did what I wanted when I wanted and answered to no one, even as a small child. My father was an addict. Not just pot, but many, many, many things. As a child, I had to keep his secrets and I resented the hell out it. I always wondered why people--adults--didn't call him on it and save me and my brothers from the shitty thing that was happening to us. No one ever did. And what's more, as an adult, I'm still paying the price for that kind of secret keeping. I have been in therapy for years, trying to figure out why I have trouble trusting people, why getting close to people is impossible, why I believe the worst is always about to happen. You get the picture.
Be the adult who stands up for what's right and tell your sister to either put up (quit smoking pot) or shut up (quit telling her kids that they have to keep her shitty secrets).
posted by GoLikeHellMachine at 7:22 PM on September 8, 2014 [13 favorites]
This is where I'm coming from: My parents were totally hands off too, generally. I did what I wanted when I wanted and answered to no one, even as a small child. My father was an addict. Not just pot, but many, many, many things. As a child, I had to keep his secrets and I resented the hell out it. I always wondered why people--adults--didn't call him on it and save me and my brothers from the shitty thing that was happening to us. No one ever did. And what's more, as an adult, I'm still paying the price for that kind of secret keeping. I have been in therapy for years, trying to figure out why I have trouble trusting people, why getting close to people is impossible, why I believe the worst is always about to happen. You get the picture.
Be the adult who stands up for what's right and tell your sister to either put up (quit smoking pot) or shut up (quit telling her kids that they have to keep her shitty secrets).
posted by GoLikeHellMachine at 7:22 PM on September 8, 2014 [13 favorites]
My friends mom is a pothead. My friend had a LOT of experiences both sexual and drug in nature at WAY too young an age.
I have dozens of friends - dozens - who were raised by pot heads and are fully contributing and healthy members of society. I know about a dozen or so teens and young adults who's parents were pot heads - every single one of those teens / young adults have university education and healthy attitude to sex and drugs. If anything, the people I have seen who are irresponsible with drinking, drugs, and sex at an early age were from repressed, fundamentalist religious backgrounds. Who's anecdotes should triumph here?
I would never tell a child that "I agree with you, it's wrong and it's a bad idea,"; holy undermining the parent there. The kids need critical thinking skills around complicated issues like pot, not swallowing the anti-pot propaganda wholesale.
Maybe the solution for the parent is to move the family to somewhere that practices evidence- based justice (realistic laws around pot use) and has less judgemental adults feeding the kids the DARE misinformation because the mom smokes pot occasionally when she is out with her friends.
And I agree clarifying on age is needed here. I'm having a hard time reconciling "young kids" with "arguing with their mom"; plus DARE in my area is taught when the kids are around 12.
posted by saucysault at 7:23 PM on September 8, 2014 [12 favorites]
I have dozens of friends - dozens - who were raised by pot heads and are fully contributing and healthy members of society. I know about a dozen or so teens and young adults who's parents were pot heads - every single one of those teens / young adults have university education and healthy attitude to sex and drugs. If anything, the people I have seen who are irresponsible with drinking, drugs, and sex at an early age were from repressed, fundamentalist religious backgrounds. Who's anecdotes should triumph here?
I would never tell a child that "I agree with you, it's wrong and it's a bad idea,"; holy undermining the parent there. The kids need critical thinking skills around complicated issues like pot, not swallowing the anti-pot propaganda wholesale.
Maybe the solution for the parent is to move the family to somewhere that practices evidence- based justice (realistic laws around pot use) and has less judgemental adults feeding the kids the DARE misinformation because the mom smokes pot occasionally when she is out with her friends.
And I agree clarifying on age is needed here. I'm having a hard time reconciling "young kids" with "arguing with their mom"; plus DARE in my area is taught when the kids are around 12.
posted by saucysault at 7:23 PM on September 8, 2014 [12 favorites]
What juniperesque said. Any other attempt to make things better will likely be misconstrued as meddling, regardless of your intentions. Support and love go a long, long way.
I do think your sister should let go of this family secret theory. Being forced to lie about something you disagree with anyway is a recipe for resentment and mistrust.
posted by doyouknowwhoIam? at 7:26 PM on September 8, 2014
I do think your sister should let go of this family secret theory. Being forced to lie about something you disagree with anyway is a recipe for resentment and mistrust.
posted by doyouknowwhoIam? at 7:26 PM on September 8, 2014
Isn't pot legal in some States? Kind of like alcohol?
I know that if my kids' "auntie" admonished me about my weekend beer habit, I would be highly annoyed. I would be seriously pissed if my kids' "auntie" pulled them aside and said what I was doing was wrong.
It's the same thing, right?
What is your real issue here?
posted by Nevin at 7:28 PM on September 8, 2014
I know that if my kids' "auntie" admonished me about my weekend beer habit, I would be highly annoyed. I would be seriously pissed if my kids' "auntie" pulled them aside and said what I was doing was wrong.
It's the same thing, right?
What is your real issue here?
posted by Nevin at 7:28 PM on September 8, 2014
The kids might feel a lot better if they had a realistic understanding of how common it is for adults to smoke pot and to break the law in general. Lots of parents drive over the speed limit, don't report all their income to the IRS, smoke pot, etc. They probably know plenty of other adults who smoke pot - maybe even some of their teachers. But they don't know about it because those other people keep it a secret, just like their mother does. If their mother feels it's okay to break a law she doesn't agree with when it's a victimless crime, she has a lot of company. Nothing she's doing is out of the ordinary.
The kids might also feel better if they had a realistic idea of how harmful pot is compared to alcohol and other drugs and if they had a realistic idea of the likely consequences if their mother got caught (especially if the consequences where she lives aren't likely to be severe.)
I get the impression that you disapprove of your sister's actions as much as her kids do. So it might be hard for you to minimize the whole thing in order to set the kids' minds at ease, but I think I'd probably go for the minimizing approach myself. I guess you need to decide whether you're more interested in helping the kids feel better or in getting your sister to reconsider her lifestyle choices.
posted by Redstart at 7:37 PM on September 8, 2014 [2 favorites]
The kids might also feel better if they had a realistic idea of how harmful pot is compared to alcohol and other drugs and if they had a realistic idea of the likely consequences if their mother got caught (especially if the consequences where she lives aren't likely to be severe.)
I get the impression that you disapprove of your sister's actions as much as her kids do. So it might be hard for you to minimize the whole thing in order to set the kids' minds at ease, but I think I'd probably go for the minimizing approach myself. I guess you need to decide whether you're more interested in helping the kids feel better or in getting your sister to reconsider her lifestyle choices.
posted by Redstart at 7:37 PM on September 8, 2014 [2 favorites]
I'm a teacher, and I've been influenced by the book Childism by Elisabeth Young-Bruehl.
I don't know whether what I'm suggesting here is supported by that book, but my thinking is that there wouldn't be an issue on AskMe with an adult saying they had a problem with the drug use of their adult partner. The advice would be just to leave the relationship.
These children don't have a choice to leave the relationship, and it's not clear to me why they shouldn't be taken seriously when expressing an opinion about their mother's drug use. Especially when the opinion they're expressing is the one sanctioned by law, and when adults oppose themselves to drug use on the basis of similar information to what the kids are getting in school, and are regarded as being entitled to their opinions.
Your sister's drug use is causing a problem in her family. I think she made a mistake by telling her kids about it, and I don't know that there is an easy way to put the toothpaste back in the tube here. I think she should stop.
Pot's supposed to be a drug that's "not a big deal." If your kids know you smoke pot, you're making it a big deal. If your kids are telling you to stop, and you're not, it's a big deal.
posted by alphanerd at 7:37 PM on September 8, 2014 [14 favorites]
I don't know whether what I'm suggesting here is supported by that book, but my thinking is that there wouldn't be an issue on AskMe with an adult saying they had a problem with the drug use of their adult partner. The advice would be just to leave the relationship.
These children don't have a choice to leave the relationship, and it's not clear to me why they shouldn't be taken seriously when expressing an opinion about their mother's drug use. Especially when the opinion they're expressing is the one sanctioned by law, and when adults oppose themselves to drug use on the basis of similar information to what the kids are getting in school, and are regarded as being entitled to their opinions.
Your sister's drug use is causing a problem in her family. I think she made a mistake by telling her kids about it, and I don't know that there is an easy way to put the toothpaste back in the tube here. I think she should stop.
Pot's supposed to be a drug that's "not a big deal." If your kids know you smoke pot, you're making it a big deal. If your kids are telling you to stop, and you're not, it's a big deal.
posted by alphanerd at 7:37 PM on September 8, 2014 [14 favorites]
The kids are making something that isn't a big deal into a big deal, mostly because their mom is handling this so awfully. Telling them it's a secret is freaking them out, because it buys directly into the anti-drug propaganda they are being told at school. There's a lot of things mom could be doing to settle them down, but there's very little you can do. All you can do is to not raise the panic level, and to not give into the idea that panicking childrens' opinions on something they know nothing about have merit. Don't tell them you agree with them, even if you do, because then they'll more convinced something must be done. Just laugh it off like the small matter that it actually is. Beyond that, there is nothing you can do.
posted by spaltavian at 7:53 PM on September 8, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by spaltavian at 7:53 PM on September 8, 2014 [1 favorite]
Your sister is freaking her children out.
You need to calmly but firmly pull her aside and tell her to cut this bullsh&t out immediately.
Tell her she needs to suck it up, apologize to her kids, and then lie and tell them she quit smoking pot and she won't do it again.
Tell her she needs to compartmentalize/hide this part of her life and keep it away from her family.
Tell her she'll be lucky if she nips this potential disaster in the bud before a teacher, parent, or anyone else reports her, and either CPS or the police show up.
Tell her having a family means she takes precautions if she's going to do something that breaks the law, especially if the law is draconian and stupid, because her job as an adult and parent is to shield her family from unnecessary hardship.
Tell her it is her job as a parent and an adult to shield her children from unnecessary stress and risk.
I'm so sorry you have to step in. Good luck
posted by jbenben at 7:54 PM on September 8, 2014 [12 favorites]
You need to calmly but firmly pull her aside and tell her to cut this bullsh&t out immediately.
Tell her she needs to suck it up, apologize to her kids, and then lie and tell them she quit smoking pot and she won't do it again.
Tell her she needs to compartmentalize/hide this part of her life and keep it away from her family.
Tell her she'll be lucky if she nips this potential disaster in the bud before a teacher, parent, or anyone else reports her, and either CPS or the police show up.
Tell her having a family means she takes precautions if she's going to do something that breaks the law, especially if the law is draconian and stupid, because her job as an adult and parent is to shield her family from unnecessary hardship.
Tell her it is her job as a parent and an adult to shield her children from unnecessary stress and risk.
I'm so sorry you have to step in. Good luck
posted by jbenben at 7:54 PM on September 8, 2014 [12 favorites]
This is a bubbling bucket bong of drama. Keep out of it.
posted by turbid dahlia at 7:55 PM on September 8, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by turbid dahlia at 7:55 PM on September 8, 2014 [2 favorites]
In your role as an aunt, probably the best thing you can do is assuage their fears for them. Depending on what they're afraid of and what their maturity levels are, you could dispel some myths or put risks in proportion. I have never seen an anti-drug program that didn't go overboard to some extent, and unfortunately, kids have to learn pretty early that sometimes their schools are wrong about a lot of things.
My son was three or four when someone at his day care told them all about how dangerous and terrible drugs were, and then told them that beer, cigarettes, and coffee were all drugs. He came home thinking that every adult he knew was a drug addict.
It sounds like you don't approve of your sister's parenting style overall. I mean, you're attributing her kids' good qualities to nature, as though they are flourishing despite rather than because of her parenting.
Maybe you need to step back a little and support your sister. She's dealing with enough underminers as it is right now.
posted by ernielundquist at 8:00 PM on September 8, 2014 [2 favorites]
My son was three or four when someone at his day care told them all about how dangerous and terrible drugs were, and then told them that beer, cigarettes, and coffee were all drugs. He came home thinking that every adult he knew was a drug addict.
It sounds like you don't approve of your sister's parenting style overall. I mean, you're attributing her kids' good qualities to nature, as though they are flourishing despite rather than because of her parenting.
Maybe you need to step back a little and support your sister. She's dealing with enough underminers as it is right now.
posted by ernielundquist at 8:00 PM on September 8, 2014 [2 favorites]
There's a picture book about this, called "it's just a plant" which might be helpful. It talks about the legal status of weed and wht some grownups use it but why it's not a good idea for kids.
I was raised by potheads and didn't drink or smoke up until I was in college, had sex only when it was legal to do so, have a master's degree and write books for kids, fwiw.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 8:00 PM on September 8, 2014 [6 favorites]
I was raised by potheads and didn't drink or smoke up until I was in college, had sex only when it was legal to do so, have a master's degree and write books for kids, fwiw.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 8:00 PM on September 8, 2014 [6 favorites]
My personal approach would be along the lines of PhoBWanKenobi. Also, there is value in helping them gain some critical thinking skills and understanding that not everything they learn in school is true. Realistically your family probably balances or will need to balance classroom lessons with your own family's values throughout their education. And really, we're talking about her family values here, not yours.
Mostly, they probably need to be reassured their mother is not going to jail, and you need to have a quiet, peaceful word with your sister to double-check she's aware and mindful of the possession limits for her state. Since we don't know what state that is, nobody here is in a position to guess.
posted by DarlingBri at 8:15 PM on September 8, 2014
Mostly, they probably need to be reassured their mother is not going to jail, and you need to have a quiet, peaceful word with your sister to double-check she's aware and mindful of the possession limits for her state. Since we don't know what state that is, nobody here is in a position to guess.
posted by DarlingBri at 8:15 PM on September 8, 2014
The fact that the kids are upset and worried is a problem in and of itself. The problem isn't solved when you, as the adult, determine the truth value of what they're worried about. The problem is solved when they feel more secure and stop being so worried. To take the line that they're just kids and they don't know what they're talking about so it's okay to just laugh it off is, like, yikes, really awful caretaking.
posted by alphanerd at 8:18 PM on September 8, 2014 [4 favorites]
posted by alphanerd at 8:18 PM on September 8, 2014 [4 favorites]
What is my responsibility here as their aunt?
To be understanding and kind about this relatively trivial family issue, and not to be meddlesome or drama-seeking and make a bigger problem out of it. It's quite easy to explain to kids that their school's anti-drug propaganda is ludicrously inaccurate and designed only to scare them, and you should do that, as anyone should if a kid asks them. It's also quite easy to explain not to talk to people at school about it. (And parenthetically, the people in this thread suggesting that helping kids understand not to spread their family secrets around to everyone at school is "grooming them for predators" are being ridiculous. Families are allowed to have secrets, and want to keep them, without those secrets being movie-of-the-week horror material.)
I promise you, as someone who had this talk with my own pot-smoking parents, that all it takes to communicate is the same honest and reasonable attitude you'd bring to any other conversation. And there's really nothing wrong with what you've described of your sister's parenting. Just be supportive and kind to everyone involved, kids and parents both; explain to the kids why it's not really the problem they may be imagining, and explain to the mom that the kids seem really worried about it so maybe it's time to talk to them in more detail about why and how they're being lied to at school.
posted by RogerB at 8:39 PM on September 8, 2014 [4 favorites]
To be understanding and kind about this relatively trivial family issue, and not to be meddlesome or drama-seeking and make a bigger problem out of it. It's quite easy to explain to kids that their school's anti-drug propaganda is ludicrously inaccurate and designed only to scare them, and you should do that, as anyone should if a kid asks them. It's also quite easy to explain not to talk to people at school about it. (And parenthetically, the people in this thread suggesting that helping kids understand not to spread their family secrets around to everyone at school is "grooming them for predators" are being ridiculous. Families are allowed to have secrets, and want to keep them, without those secrets being movie-of-the-week horror material.)
I promise you, as someone who had this talk with my own pot-smoking parents, that all it takes to communicate is the same honest and reasonable attitude you'd bring to any other conversation. And there's really nothing wrong with what you've described of your sister's parenting. Just be supportive and kind to everyone involved, kids and parents both; explain to the kids why it's not really the problem they may be imagining, and explain to the mom that the kids seem really worried about it so maybe it's time to talk to them in more detail about why and how they're being lied to at school.
posted by RogerB at 8:39 PM on September 8, 2014 [4 favorites]
Just because something is against the law, it doesn't mean it's wrong. There are laws that are outdated, nonsensical, or even outright unethical. It will be a great opportunity for the kids to learn this basic fact of life.
In the case at hand, there are already two states (Colorado, Washington) where recreational marijuana use is legal, and in a few dozen years, it will without a doubt be legal everywhere in the US. The analogy is maybe a little too strong, but imagine Rosa Parks' kids would have expressed concerns that she was breaking the seggregation laws. What would you have told them?
posted by tecg at 9:34 PM on September 8, 2014 [1 favorite]
In the case at hand, there are already two states (Colorado, Washington) where recreational marijuana use is legal, and in a few dozen years, it will without a doubt be legal everywhere in the US. The analogy is maybe a little too strong, but imagine Rosa Parks' kids would have expressed concerns that she was breaking the seggregation laws. What would you have told them?
posted by tecg at 9:34 PM on September 8, 2014 [1 favorite]
I think your responsibility as the aunt is to support their mother. It would be different if she were endangering the children or herself -- in that case, you would need to make difficult decisions about what's best for the kids. But it doesn't sound like that's what's needed here.
Bear in mind that kids do get really heavily propagandized in American schools these days, and they are not equipped to handle it well. I don't have kids myself, but I remember my then 11-year-old niece having a screaming sobbing meltdown *fit* one year at the cottage, when she looked out the window and saw her father smoking a cigar by the fire. (He didn't normally smoke: it was a one-off celebrating a work promotion.) That same year, two of my other nieces had developed really strong feelings about fire safety, and relentlessly hassled all the adults about it. Kids are super literal and non-nuanced ;)
I think as their aunt the most helpful thing you can do is be reassuring with them. If they're hearing at school that drugs kill and drug users are evil and go to prison and their kids are taken away and made homeless, or whatever, they are probably scared. And probably also confused trying to integrate their idea of their mom (who they probably love and respect) with the image they're seeing of her through the eyes of the school (reckless, bad, doomed). And because there is so much anti-drug propaganda, and because many drugs are illegal, they probably are unaware that lots of adults do drugs, not just their mom and her friends. You, as a trusted adult, can help heal this disconnect by normalizing the situation. You can tell them that lots of adults smoke pot recreationally, that many people believe it is less dangerous than alcohol, and that although it is still illegal in many places its use is generally tolerated. You don't need to lie -- if you feel like smoking pot is not a great idea, you can probably say some mild version of that. But it would be a kindness to these kids, to tell them that what their mom is doing is not that unusual.
I'll also say, I disagree with the people saying families can't have secrets and still be healthy and functioning. Of course they can. This is not a burdensome secret: this is just discretion.
posted by Susan PG at 10:28 PM on September 8, 2014 [2 favorites]
Bear in mind that kids do get really heavily propagandized in American schools these days, and they are not equipped to handle it well. I don't have kids myself, but I remember my then 11-year-old niece having a screaming sobbing meltdown *fit* one year at the cottage, when she looked out the window and saw her father smoking a cigar by the fire. (He didn't normally smoke: it was a one-off celebrating a work promotion.) That same year, two of my other nieces had developed really strong feelings about fire safety, and relentlessly hassled all the adults about it. Kids are super literal and non-nuanced ;)
I think as their aunt the most helpful thing you can do is be reassuring with them. If they're hearing at school that drugs kill and drug users are evil and go to prison and their kids are taken away and made homeless, or whatever, they are probably scared. And probably also confused trying to integrate their idea of their mom (who they probably love and respect) with the image they're seeing of her through the eyes of the school (reckless, bad, doomed). And because there is so much anti-drug propaganda, and because many drugs are illegal, they probably are unaware that lots of adults do drugs, not just their mom and her friends. You, as a trusted adult, can help heal this disconnect by normalizing the situation. You can tell them that lots of adults smoke pot recreationally, that many people believe it is less dangerous than alcohol, and that although it is still illegal in many places its use is generally tolerated. You don't need to lie -- if you feel like smoking pot is not a great idea, you can probably say some mild version of that. But it would be a kindness to these kids, to tell them that what their mom is doing is not that unusual.
I'll also say, I disagree with the people saying families can't have secrets and still be healthy and functioning. Of course they can. This is not a burdensome secret: this is just discretion.
posted by Susan PG at 10:28 PM on September 8, 2014 [2 favorites]
My own kids are 13, 10, and 7. The 7yo doesn't know we smoke but the older two do; the 13-year-old has actually seen us because his shift to a teenagerish sleep schedule caught us by surprise and he wandered through the living room looking for a snack one night long after we thought he was asleep.
We've talked about pot as an interesting case where some people have very strong negative opinions about it, but other people see it as relatively harmless; we've pointed out that it's legal in some places in the US and not in others; we've explained that in some places, you can get a prescription for it to use it medically. We've tried to help our kids understand that, not just on this issue but in many situations, people make different decisions for themselves rather than there being a single right answer. I bought the book It's Just a Plant as a joke gift for a friend, and it turned out to be pretty good for a member of the didactic children's books genre, so the older two and I read it and discussed the information in it and the issues the book raised. I've also talked to them about who I think good adults would be to talk to if they were curious about any drugs, or concerned, but didn't feel they could talk to me or my partner. We have talked some about the need to be discreet about it, because some people have strong negative reactions, in a kind of parallel way to how we've handled profanity, which is that using certain words themselves isn't necessarily a bad thing, but that being thoughtful about where you are and in what company is a good idea.
Our lives are made easier by the fact that the older two homeschool and haven't been exposed to DARE. The youngest is in public school and I dread him encountering DARE and other things like it.
I think there's good advice up-thread to think about what the kids are afraid of and reassure them about those things. Are they worried their mom might be arrested? That using pot will make her sick? Etc.
Of course, you can't really approach this without edging into the dreaded realm of unsolicited advice, so you need to treat very lightly with your sister. The kids may be worried, but they're not actually being harmed, and it doesn't sound from your description like your sister's pot smoking is interfering with her life in any way. In your shoes, I don't know that you can do much more than be ready with thoughts and ideas should your sister or her kids bring up the subject; otherwise, this seems to me to fall squarely into the category of parenting issues that you really need to leave up to the actual parent. Save "sis, we need to talk" for the rare time when it really needs to happen, and you can use all the goodwill you've build up by being supporting and non-judgmental to make a difference where it can really count.
posted by not that girl at 10:35 PM on September 8, 2014 [4 favorites]
We've talked about pot as an interesting case where some people have very strong negative opinions about it, but other people see it as relatively harmless; we've pointed out that it's legal in some places in the US and not in others; we've explained that in some places, you can get a prescription for it to use it medically. We've tried to help our kids understand that, not just on this issue but in many situations, people make different decisions for themselves rather than there being a single right answer. I bought the book It's Just a Plant as a joke gift for a friend, and it turned out to be pretty good for a member of the didactic children's books genre, so the older two and I read it and discussed the information in it and the issues the book raised. I've also talked to them about who I think good adults would be to talk to if they were curious about any drugs, or concerned, but didn't feel they could talk to me or my partner. We have talked some about the need to be discreet about it, because some people have strong negative reactions, in a kind of parallel way to how we've handled profanity, which is that using certain words themselves isn't necessarily a bad thing, but that being thoughtful about where you are and in what company is a good idea.
Our lives are made easier by the fact that the older two homeschool and haven't been exposed to DARE. The youngest is in public school and I dread him encountering DARE and other things like it.
I think there's good advice up-thread to think about what the kids are afraid of and reassure them about those things. Are they worried their mom might be arrested? That using pot will make her sick? Etc.
Of course, you can't really approach this without edging into the dreaded realm of unsolicited advice, so you need to treat very lightly with your sister. The kids may be worried, but they're not actually being harmed, and it doesn't sound from your description like your sister's pot smoking is interfering with her life in any way. In your shoes, I don't know that you can do much more than be ready with thoughts and ideas should your sister or her kids bring up the subject; otherwise, this seems to me to fall squarely into the category of parenting issues that you really need to leave up to the actual parent. Save "sis, we need to talk" for the rare time when it really needs to happen, and you can use all the goodwill you've build up by being supporting and non-judgmental to make a difference where it can really count.
posted by not that girl at 10:35 PM on September 8, 2014 [4 favorites]
How old is "young kids?"
If you know they don't like it, I am guessing their mom does. If anything, you could talk to her and see if she has talked to them about it. I think she should talk to her kids about pot, explain the difference between it and other drugs, maybe the varying legal status, and make sure the kids don't have the wrong idea about what's going on. But you can't tell her to not smoke pot and lecture her on her kids' feelings. At most, you can gently nudge she talk to them about it if she hasn't already.
Growing up I had classmates whose parents smoked cigarettes and they hated it. They were taught in school how horrible it is. The parents did not stop smoking. The kids had to deal with it. I imagine it's a similar thing.
posted by AppleTurnover at 11:03 PM on September 8, 2014
If you know they don't like it, I am guessing their mom does. If anything, you could talk to her and see if she has talked to them about it. I think she should talk to her kids about pot, explain the difference between it and other drugs, maybe the varying legal status, and make sure the kids don't have the wrong idea about what's going on. But you can't tell her to not smoke pot and lecture her on her kids' feelings. At most, you can gently nudge she talk to them about it if she hasn't already.
Growing up I had classmates whose parents smoked cigarettes and they hated it. They were taught in school how horrible it is. The parents did not stop smoking. The kids had to deal with it. I imagine it's a similar thing.
posted by AppleTurnover at 11:03 PM on September 8, 2014
If you're in a state that's legalized medical marijuana, maybe give your sister a hundred bucks to go get a "medical" license for her birthday/Christmas/etc. Suddenly it's not a terrible secret any more.
posted by egypturnash at 11:09 PM on September 8, 2014
posted by egypturnash at 11:09 PM on September 8, 2014
I just want to point out that this:
She has young kids who know about it...
and this:
Just as a side note: I don't believe she smokes pot around them.
don't go together unless there's a third element. Are you sure she's not smoking it around them (in which case I'd be concerned about their second hand exposure)? Or is she talking about her use around them all the time (in which case, I'd be worried about her common sense)?
posted by NotMyselfRightNow at 5:13 AM on September 9, 2014 [3 favorites]
She has young kids who know about it...
and this:
Just as a side note: I don't believe she smokes pot around them.
don't go together unless there's a third element. Are you sure she's not smoking it around them (in which case I'd be concerned about their second hand exposure)? Or is she talking about her use around them all the time (in which case, I'd be worried about her common sense)?
posted by NotMyselfRightNow at 5:13 AM on September 9, 2014 [3 favorites]
...my thinking is that there wouldn't be an issue on AskMe with an adult saying they had a problem with the drug use of their adult partner. The advice would be just to leave the relationship
Ah, but it would depend on the context. "My partner smokes up on the weekends to relax. I worry about cops crashing through our door" would be answered by reassurance of the low odds there and inquiries as to how discreet his habits are, and people comparing it to having a few beers on the weekend, and the only difference would be that we'd say "you can decide that anything at all is a dealbreaker for you," and of course the kids can't make that decision...
...and they shouldn't get to, because assuming the parenting quality is reasonable parents are grown-ups and allowed to have reasonable vices.
It really sounds like the family is dealing with the fall-out of some lousy propaganda from school and that is the source of the problem, not Mom's recreational habits. I would counteract that and have a non-DARE talk about it. The "It's Just a Plant" book mentioned above might be a little young but still useful. I would not add to the propaganda by saying you are anti-pot; if you are, I'd just step away from this one.
When we had a houseguest going through chemo who openly smoked boatloads of weed, my young daughter got a complete explanation (and, having seen its palliative effects, she was much in favour of this habit for our friend) and the suggestion that it might not be a thing to tell others, because that is [friend's] decision to discuss it or not discuss it with people. Lots of families and people close to them have little secrets and I think the idea that it's wrong for them to be asked to exercise discretion is problematic is silly. Personally, I think both the sharing of the information (responsible adults you love use X, not often) and the request for privacy are highly appropriate and good lessons to learn. Like many parents I drink beer in front of my daughter. I tell her why I then cannot drive; probably she will eventually drink beer herself, and I'd like her to have a decent model for it. I could also do without her Girl Guides leaders getting a full account of Saturday's BBQ with the part about Mummy not being able to drive, you know? I think your sister is being reasonable.
posted by kmennie at 5:56 AM on September 9, 2014 [4 favorites]
Ah, but it would depend on the context. "My partner smokes up on the weekends to relax. I worry about cops crashing through our door" would be answered by reassurance of the low odds there and inquiries as to how discreet his habits are, and people comparing it to having a few beers on the weekend, and the only difference would be that we'd say "you can decide that anything at all is a dealbreaker for you," and of course the kids can't make that decision...
...and they shouldn't get to, because assuming the parenting quality is reasonable parents are grown-ups and allowed to have reasonable vices.
It really sounds like the family is dealing with the fall-out of some lousy propaganda from school and that is the source of the problem, not Mom's recreational habits. I would counteract that and have a non-DARE talk about it. The "It's Just a Plant" book mentioned above might be a little young but still useful. I would not add to the propaganda by saying you are anti-pot; if you are, I'd just step away from this one.
When we had a houseguest going through chemo who openly smoked boatloads of weed, my young daughter got a complete explanation (and, having seen its palliative effects, she was much in favour of this habit for our friend) and the suggestion that it might not be a thing to tell others, because that is [friend's] decision to discuss it or not discuss it with people. Lots of families and people close to them have little secrets and I think the idea that it's wrong for them to be asked to exercise discretion is problematic is silly. Personally, I think both the sharing of the information (responsible adults you love use X, not often) and the request for privacy are highly appropriate and good lessons to learn. Like many parents I drink beer in front of my daughter. I tell her why I then cannot drive; probably she will eventually drink beer herself, and I'd like her to have a decent model for it. I could also do without her Girl Guides leaders getting a full account of Saturday's BBQ with the part about Mummy not being able to drive, you know? I think your sister is being reasonable.
posted by kmennie at 5:56 AM on September 9, 2014 [4 favorites]
I definitely am a firm beliver in legalizing pot, and come from a family of very avid and open pot smokers. As a kid, I knew my parents smoked pot - but I also knew that in school, I was taught it was wrong. My parents also did tell me that it was wrong and something only adults did, and thats how I pretty much understood it.
Kids will form their own opinions as they grow older and it will likely change. I do think that your sister made a mistake by talking to them about it and admittiing that she does it if they are too young to understand. (This would be something I'd tell a teenager, not a small child.)
I'd stay out of it. There isn't going to be anything you can do to CHANGE it, and in several years with laws changing as they are, it's not going to matter.
posted by Sara_NOT_Sarah at 5:56 AM on September 9, 2014
Kids will form their own opinions as they grow older and it will likely change. I do think that your sister made a mistake by talking to them about it and admittiing that she does it if they are too young to understand. (This would be something I'd tell a teenager, not a small child.)
I'd stay out of it. There isn't going to be anything you can do to CHANGE it, and in several years with laws changing as they are, it's not going to matter.
posted by Sara_NOT_Sarah at 5:56 AM on September 9, 2014
If she's "hands off" to the point of neglect: the older kids have to do things with their younger siblings that a parent should or she drives high with the kids in the car, then I would get involved.
Otherwise, nthing not that girl.
posted by brujita at 6:40 AM on September 9, 2014 [1 favorite]
Otherwise, nthing not that girl.
posted by brujita at 6:40 AM on September 9, 2014 [1 favorite]
I know a mom who came down hard on her 12 year old son for internet pornography so he turned her in for smoking weed. She ended up wearing an ankle bracelet, home arrest for a while.
What I'm saying is that it is hard for kids to process what is right and what is right-right. Adults will look like hypocrites when compared to rules that kids learn and it is a painful process to sort out the bad from the good. Parents should not put additional pressure on kids in this regards.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 7:02 AM on September 9, 2014 [7 favorites]
What I'm saying is that it is hard for kids to process what is right and what is right-right. Adults will look like hypocrites when compared to rules that kids learn and it is a painful process to sort out the bad from the good. Parents should not put additional pressure on kids in this regards.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 7:02 AM on September 9, 2014 [7 favorites]
If you, as an adult and a parent, want to keep secrets about your optional behavior, then you don't tell/show your young children. You do not ask them to keep secrets for you.
As the aunt, you could talk to your sister about how the kids might be afraid of abandonment in one form or another and encourage her to address that with them.
posted by jeoc at 7:53 AM on September 9, 2014 [7 favorites]
As the aunt, you could talk to your sister about how the kids might be afraid of abandonment in one form or another and encourage her to address that with them.
posted by jeoc at 7:53 AM on September 9, 2014 [7 favorites]
" It's worked out beautifully for the most part because her kids are sweet and thoughtful people by nature."
Probably overlaying some things from my life but, to me this sounds like she has trained the kids to be adults who take care of themselves and her and, once they're old enough if they're not already, will be expected to defend her and explain away any evidence that maybe she's not the best mom.
Kids are unhappy. Mom let's them do whatever they want. Not a great situation but outside of being a good aunt there's not much you can do.
You've been there for arguements, plural, about this? That's heartbreaking. Have to wonder if the arguments started because the kids want your help.
posted by Lesser Shrew at 8:50 AM on September 9, 2014 [2 favorites]
Probably overlaying some things from my life but, to me this sounds like she has trained the kids to be adults who take care of themselves and her and, once they're old enough if they're not already, will be expected to defend her and explain away any evidence that maybe she's not the best mom.
Kids are unhappy. Mom let's them do whatever they want. Not a great situation but outside of being a good aunt there's not much you can do.
You've been there for arguements, plural, about this? That's heartbreaking. Have to wonder if the arguments started because the kids want your help.
posted by Lesser Shrew at 8:50 AM on September 9, 2014 [2 favorites]
I'm with the person above who wondered why you don't give your sister any credit for being a good mom. Kids are not, repeat not, just sweet by nature! Yes, maybe they're all born sweet, but from that point on the environment- especially the parents- have a strong effect on how kids turn out.
I stopped speaking to my then-childless sister for year when she told me I was "lucky" I had such great kids. When I gently asked her to give me a little credit for that she refused and blathered on and on about her various perfectly wonderful friends who had obnoxious kids.
Are you so down on your sister that you are perhaps blowing this out of proportion? Are you and other family members grilling these children to get the dope on mom's dope smoking? I sense you're being judgmental, and no, I haven't been smoking the specific strain of wacky weed that makes some people paranoid. If I'm wrong, and you really really care about your sister then show her your question here and everyone's responses.
Where is the children's father in all this?
posted by mareli at 6:03 AM on September 10, 2014
I stopped speaking to my then-childless sister for year when she told me I was "lucky" I had such great kids. When I gently asked her to give me a little credit for that she refused and blathered on and on about her various perfectly wonderful friends who had obnoxious kids.
Are you so down on your sister that you are perhaps blowing this out of proportion? Are you and other family members grilling these children to get the dope on mom's dope smoking? I sense you're being judgmental, and no, I haven't been smoking the specific strain of wacky weed that makes some people paranoid. If I'm wrong, and you really really care about your sister then show her your question here and everyone's responses.
Where is the children's father in all this?
posted by mareli at 6:03 AM on September 10, 2014
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This thread is closed to new comments.
However, if you insist upon chiming in, first thing - how old are these kids? Being a non-parent, I'd go in with a "chill out and let mom enjoy being an adult who has hobbies outside of raising you" conversation and if that does not work, tell your sister to just stop talking about it.
posted by banannafish at 6:22 PM on September 8, 2014 [17 favorites]