Can I please get a copy of that "This Is How People Act" memo?
April 6, 2014 7:08 PM Subscribe
Currently, I'm in grad school in DC. I feel like I'm putting my foot in it at every turn, especially toward people in positions of authority, like professors and bosses. At this point, I think there are probably lots of things I'm doing wrong that I don't even know about! Please tell me what the unwritten rules are for being a nice, friendly, pleasant person in this milieu, because I can't figure them out.
What are some things that I should make sure to do, in order to show respect and consideration for others on a day-to-day level? What faux pas I should avoid at all costs? How should I do clothes/hair/makeup "properly," and which subjects of conversations are (in)appropriate?
Things I'm working on currently: punctuality and not over-sharing. Success has been mixed but I'm (reasonably) undaunted.
What are some things that I should make sure to do, in order to show respect and consideration for others on a day-to-day level? What faux pas I should avoid at all costs? How should I do clothes/hair/makeup "properly," and which subjects of conversations are (in)appropriate?
Things I'm working on currently: punctuality and not over-sharing. Success has been mixed but I'm (reasonably) undaunted.
This seems kind of impossibly broad. Is there something specific you think that grad school people act? If so, it probably matters what kind of grad school you're in (an MBA program versus a Theoretical Physics Ph.D. program is going to very, very different). Can you give some examples of why you think you're "putting your foot in it"?
Otherwise, it's just like... be a nice person? Read some stuff about how to act with coworkers in a business setting, I guess? Though in my personal experience we were way, way, closer than that, even with the professors.
posted by brainmouse at 7:15 PM on April 6, 2014 [3 favorites]
Otherwise, it's just like... be a nice person? Read some stuff about how to act with coworkers in a business setting, I guess? Though in my personal experience we were way, way, closer than that, even with the professors.
posted by brainmouse at 7:15 PM on April 6, 2014 [3 favorites]
Don't call your bosses or professors "dude" or "man" or anything like that, but since you're old enough to be in grad school, you can also skip the "ma'am" or "sir" unless explicitly told to use those. Don't show up for class or work in dirty clothes, holey clothes, or clothes that look like (or are!) pajamas. Don't gossip.
I don't know. Is any of this helping? I have no idea what it is you're getting wrong, so I can't tell what kind of advice you need or want. I've lived in DC and didn't find that treating people there properly was any different from anywhere else I've lived, really.
posted by rtha at 7:25 PM on April 6, 2014
I don't know. Is any of this helping? I have no idea what it is you're getting wrong, so I can't tell what kind of advice you need or want. I've lived in DC and didn't find that treating people there properly was any different from anywhere else I've lived, really.
posted by rtha at 7:25 PM on April 6, 2014
The big rule of grad school is that your career started when you started grad school. Dress like the profession you are aspiring to. Act like the profession you aspire to. If you want to be a scientist/professor act like a scientist/professor.
However, remember that you are not yet a scientist/professor with regards to status. You have to walk a tightrope between showing agency and asking permission. Treat everyone as a potential reference letter writer, including your classmates (believe it or not some of them will be more successful than you and be able to do you favors in the future)
posted by srboisvert at 7:34 PM on April 6, 2014 [9 favorites]
However, remember that you are not yet a scientist/professor with regards to status. You have to walk a tightrope between showing agency and asking permission. Treat everyone as a potential reference letter writer, including your classmates (believe it or not some of them will be more successful than you and be able to do you favors in the future)
posted by srboisvert at 7:34 PM on April 6, 2014 [9 favorites]
It seems like the further east you go, the more likely people are to refer to professors as "Dr X" or "Professor X" (both to their faces and when referring to them when they're not around), though it'll obviously vary with subject and department. Maybe it's worth paying attention to see if your classmates do this.
posted by hoyland at 7:34 PM on April 6, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by hoyland at 7:34 PM on April 6, 2014 [1 favorite]
Two things I've made sure to do is to always refer to professors/advisors/mentors by their proper titles (Dr./Professor/etc.) despite the fact that many of my colleagues are on a first-name basis, and to read and refer to their work in class discussions and research.
posted by a.steele at 7:35 PM on April 6, 2014
posted by a.steele at 7:35 PM on April 6, 2014
Best answer: You can't dodge punctuality.
I was chronically late when I was in graduate school the first time around, and a good friend took me aside and told me that being late to something was the most direct way to show disrespect for the person hosting the event. I had quite frankly never thought of things that way; I always told myself that things 'just happened' to me or that time 'just got away from me' as I was trying to make it to appointments.
So I started giving myself way, way too much time to get to appointments. As it turns out, my conception of 'way, way too much' was about what everyone else though of as 'just enough' time. So eventually, I learned how to be punctual.
I cannot tell you how important this was to my life. When you're no longer the unreliable friend/colleague/employee/relative, you realize how much easier things are.
So if I were you, I'd focus on that.
Be on time. Many other things will follow.
posted by yellowcandy at 7:41 PM on April 6, 2014 [22 favorites]
I was chronically late when I was in graduate school the first time around, and a good friend took me aside and told me that being late to something was the most direct way to show disrespect for the person hosting the event. I had quite frankly never thought of things that way; I always told myself that things 'just happened' to me or that time 'just got away from me' as I was trying to make it to appointments.
So I started giving myself way, way too much time to get to appointments. As it turns out, my conception of 'way, way too much' was about what everyone else though of as 'just enough' time. So eventually, I learned how to be punctual.
I cannot tell you how important this was to my life. When you're no longer the unreliable friend/colleague/employee/relative, you realize how much easier things are.
So if I were you, I'd focus on that.
Be on time. Many other things will follow.
posted by yellowcandy at 7:41 PM on April 6, 2014 [22 favorites]
Best answer: Defer defer defer. Don't overtly challenge them, look smarter than them or knock down their ideas. Present options and ideas and let them make the decision.
When they ask for something, even if it's something so boring and horrible that makes you want to stab out your own eyeballs, say "yes absolutely" and if you can't do it say "I want to do this for you but XYZ will make it a challenge, I could ABC instead" or let him/her remove obstacle XYZ. But never say 'no' outright.
Know your place in the pecking order and act it. Then people will like your 'can-do' attitude and help you move up (or if they don't you go somewhere else that has more opportunity).
posted by St. Peepsburg at 7:42 PM on April 6, 2014 [3 favorites]
When they ask for something, even if it's something so boring and horrible that makes you want to stab out your own eyeballs, say "yes absolutely" and if you can't do it say "I want to do this for you but XYZ will make it a challenge, I could ABC instead" or let him/her remove obstacle XYZ. But never say 'no' outright.
Know your place in the pecking order and act it. Then people will like your 'can-do' attitude and help you move up (or if they don't you go somewhere else that has more opportunity).
posted by St. Peepsburg at 7:42 PM on April 6, 2014 [3 favorites]
Nthing that your question is a bit abstract/general without further details (specific examples), but a couple things that might help based on my experience at grad school:
Your professors - even though some may be close-ish in age to you and people dress fairly casually in universities - are NOT your friends (or rather, not JUST your friends). They are people in positions of authority/power over you and are constantly evaluating you. So always be professional with respect to keeping your private life separate from your work/grad-school life. They really don't want to know about that stuff for the most part, especially if you over-share re: sex, drugs, drama, etc. You need to present yourself as a potential future colleague, not a basket-case.
In addition to showing up on time, listen carefully to what the profs are implicitly and explicitly asking you to do work-wise. They may get frustrated with grad students who aren't getting sh*t done and who are always asking "oh, what was it you wanted?" or "now explain that to me again?". You are supposed to be smart and have initiative, so step up.
And watch how your fellow grad students - especially the ones who seem to be the academics' favourite (there always is one or two) - behave around the profs and how they spend their time (i.e., what work are they getting done). Do what they do.
posted by Halo in reverse at 7:42 PM on April 6, 2014 [2 favorites]
Your professors - even though some may be close-ish in age to you and people dress fairly casually in universities - are NOT your friends (or rather, not JUST your friends). They are people in positions of authority/power over you and are constantly evaluating you. So always be professional with respect to keeping your private life separate from your work/grad-school life. They really don't want to know about that stuff for the most part, especially if you over-share re: sex, drugs, drama, etc. You need to present yourself as a potential future colleague, not a basket-case.
In addition to showing up on time, listen carefully to what the profs are implicitly and explicitly asking you to do work-wise. They may get frustrated with grad students who aren't getting sh*t done and who are always asking "oh, what was it you wanted?" or "now explain that to me again?". You are supposed to be smart and have initiative, so step up.
And watch how your fellow grad students - especially the ones who seem to be the academics' favourite (there always is one or two) - behave around the profs and how they spend their time (i.e., what work are they getting done). Do what they do.
posted by Halo in reverse at 7:42 PM on April 6, 2014 [2 favorites]
Just looked through your history (btw: it's a MPP folks), could your interpersonal troubles be related to your older question about missing deadlines and disregarding the reading reqs? There you wrote:
"I just can't catch up, feel overwhelmed, and am having a really hard time understanding the unwritten rules of what I should be doing (as in, what is it OK if I slack on and what is it NOT OK to slack on, what is a hard deadline and what is just a target, etc)."
Is this still the core of the problem?
posted by travelwithcats at 7:46 PM on April 6, 2014
"I just can't catch up, feel overwhelmed, and am having a really hard time understanding the unwritten rules of what I should be doing (as in, what is it OK if I slack on and what is it NOT OK to slack on, what is a hard deadline and what is just a target, etc)."
Is this still the core of the problem?
posted by travelwithcats at 7:46 PM on April 6, 2014
Ok, it looks like you've mentioned this "other people know things I don't know" feeling before.
Can you elaborate? What bad things have happened due to you "not knowing" whatever it is that you don't know? What social circles are you used to hanging around in, and how is it different from the one you perceive your classmates and professors to belong to?
And -- I wouldn't say that 'East' means 'Dr.". A well-respected professor in my department was universally called Spike, both to his face and referentially, and we were at latitude -71.411, "pretty damn east." But yes, if other people call Dr. X Dr. X, call her Dr. X!
posted by batter_my_heart at 7:46 PM on April 6, 2014 [1 favorite]
Can you elaborate? What bad things have happened due to you "not knowing" whatever it is that you don't know? What social circles are you used to hanging around in, and how is it different from the one you perceive your classmates and professors to belong to?
And -- I wouldn't say that 'East' means 'Dr.". A well-respected professor in my department was universally called Spike, both to his face and referentially, and we were at latitude -71.411, "pretty damn east." But yes, if other people call Dr. X Dr. X, call her Dr. X!
posted by batter_my_heart at 7:46 PM on April 6, 2014 [1 favorite]
I learned this too late in graduate school: treat it like a job, because it is a job.
Wake up early, dress like you're going to work, get on the bus or in your car or on your bike and go in to school, sit down at the library or in your office if you're one of the few lucky students to have an office, and get to work. Have lunch between 12 and 12:30 or 1:00, be on time to all meetings or lectures or courses that you have to attend that day, and go home after putting in eight to ten hours of work. Try to go to happy hours occasionally - once every two or three weeks. Don't make friends with your fellow students, but be social and friendly with them. Save your weekends for making actual friends outside of school and spend time doing fun things that are unrelated to your job.
Just treat it like a job, because it is a job. Show up, do good work, and keep your social life separate from your work life.
posted by sockermom at 8:05 PM on April 6, 2014 [12 favorites]
Wake up early, dress like you're going to work, get on the bus or in your car or on your bike and go in to school, sit down at the library or in your office if you're one of the few lucky students to have an office, and get to work. Have lunch between 12 and 12:30 or 1:00, be on time to all meetings or lectures or courses that you have to attend that day, and go home after putting in eight to ten hours of work. Try to go to happy hours occasionally - once every two or three weeks. Don't make friends with your fellow students, but be social and friendly with them. Save your weekends for making actual friends outside of school and spend time doing fun things that are unrelated to your job.
Just treat it like a job, because it is a job. Show up, do good work, and keep your social life separate from your work life.
posted by sockermom at 8:05 PM on April 6, 2014 [12 favorites]
Second that punctuality bit. When I have to wait more than 60 seconds for somebody to show up for a meeting, I can feel my brain registering a little disrespect for that person, even if they have a good excuse.
posted by deathpanels at 8:06 PM on April 6, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by deathpanels at 8:06 PM on April 6, 2014 [2 favorites]
It's not a memo it's a book
The authors are not "neurotypical" so they have had to reverse engineer and articulate the rules the majority of folks somehow pick up seemingly by osmosis.
Fascinating look at society from an outsider perspective.
posted by otherchaz at 8:43 PM on April 6, 2014 [4 favorites]
The authors are not "neurotypical" so they have had to reverse engineer and articulate the rules the majority of folks somehow pick up seemingly by osmosis.
Fascinating look at society from an outsider perspective.
posted by otherchaz at 8:43 PM on April 6, 2014 [4 favorites]
Response by poster: This seems kind of impossibly broad. Is there something specific you think that grad school people act? If so, it probably matters what kind of grad school you're in (an MBA program versus a Theoretical Physics Ph.D. program is going to very, very different). Can you give some examples of why you think you're "putting your foot in it"?
I'm in a public policy program, so people are by and large training to be bureaucrats (policy analysts, consultants, etc).
I'm sorry if this question is too broad to answer. The main problem is that it feels like I'm a foreign exchange student, like there's some kind of culture clash going on and I just can't seem to assimilate. I'd like to know how to assimilate!
Examples of ways I think I'm messing up: In class, I think that from my professors' perspective, I tend to derail discussions away from the models we're learning about by asking about real-life issues or examples that I think fit into those models -- I've tried to stop, because it seems to drive them up a wall, but I still end up putting my foot in it fairly often because I can't seem to predict what will be irrelevant and what won't. That issue comes up in assignments like problem sets, papers, and tests, too -- I seem to have a completely different idea than the professors and other students of what's important and what's not, and am constantly misunderstanding the questions they're asking. Basically, it seems like their response to what I'm saying/writing always ends up being, "that's not wrong, but it's not what I care about." That's similar to the kind of miscommunication that I feel like comes up between the other students and myself, where I feel like I end up either seeming too chilly and withdrawn or overly familiar and tacky, and we can't quite hit the sweet spot of casual friendliness. There are probably also lots of ways that I'm putting my foot in it that I'm not even picking up on, because this is the stuff that ends up having obvious consequences, like my assignments getting marked down or conversations grinding to a halt.
When it comes to professors in particular, I know that I'm being insubordinate all the time, and that's actually a problem that has come up for me my entire life (with teachers, bosses, etc), but I frankly don't know what I'm doing wrong or what "right" would be? I *feel* respect for them and use formal titles and things like that, but people are constantly thinking that I'm not listening or trying to question their authority or ignoring instructions or making light of things, etc, but I'm actually just misunderstanding what they want.
Wake up early, dress like you're going to work, get on the bus or in your car or on your bike and go in to school, sit down at the library or in your office if you're one of the few lucky students to have an office, and get to work. Have lunch between 12 and 12:30 or 1:00, be on time to all meetings or lectures or courses that you have to attend that day, and go home after putting in eight to ten hours of work. Try to go to happy hours occasionally - once every two or three weeks. Don't make friends with your fellow students, but be social and friendly with them. Save your weekends for making actual friends outside of school and spend time doing fun things that are unrelated to your job.
Up until I quit working for school, I'd been supporting myself as a waitress. I actually like that work a lot (and feel like I'm good at it!), but I've pretty much hit my ceiling in terms of earnings there and feel like I'll be aging out relatively soon anyway -- which is why I decided to get more education. Adapting to a 9-5 schedule is something I've been consciously working on, but even after about five months of being in school full time and not working, I can't say I've been successful at doing that. That's a worry in its own right, but I'll try to double down on it.
I'd prefer to do things the way I'm used to at work! But it seems like my concept of "work" and "professional," etc, isn't calibrated in the way it should be for grad school here. I'm also having a lot of trouble being motivated and organized when money/pay isn't on the line, but that's a whole other kettle of fish, because I *hate* not earning money (but can't work during the academic year at risk of losing my fellowship).
Anyway, hope that makes things more clear/specific? Suggestions for other resources (books, videos, etc) would also be great.
posted by rue72 at 8:56 PM on April 6, 2014
I'm in a public policy program, so people are by and large training to be bureaucrats (policy analysts, consultants, etc).
I'm sorry if this question is too broad to answer. The main problem is that it feels like I'm a foreign exchange student, like there's some kind of culture clash going on and I just can't seem to assimilate. I'd like to know how to assimilate!
Examples of ways I think I'm messing up: In class, I think that from my professors' perspective, I tend to derail discussions away from the models we're learning about by asking about real-life issues or examples that I think fit into those models -- I've tried to stop, because it seems to drive them up a wall, but I still end up putting my foot in it fairly often because I can't seem to predict what will be irrelevant and what won't. That issue comes up in assignments like problem sets, papers, and tests, too -- I seem to have a completely different idea than the professors and other students of what's important and what's not, and am constantly misunderstanding the questions they're asking. Basically, it seems like their response to what I'm saying/writing always ends up being, "that's not wrong, but it's not what I care about." That's similar to the kind of miscommunication that I feel like comes up between the other students and myself, where I feel like I end up either seeming too chilly and withdrawn or overly familiar and tacky, and we can't quite hit the sweet spot of casual friendliness. There are probably also lots of ways that I'm putting my foot in it that I'm not even picking up on, because this is the stuff that ends up having obvious consequences, like my assignments getting marked down or conversations grinding to a halt.
When it comes to professors in particular, I know that I'm being insubordinate all the time, and that's actually a problem that has come up for me my entire life (with teachers, bosses, etc), but I frankly don't know what I'm doing wrong or what "right" would be? I *feel* respect for them and use formal titles and things like that, but people are constantly thinking that I'm not listening or trying to question their authority or ignoring instructions or making light of things, etc, but I'm actually just misunderstanding what they want.
Wake up early, dress like you're going to work, get on the bus or in your car or on your bike and go in to school, sit down at the library or in your office if you're one of the few lucky students to have an office, and get to work. Have lunch between 12 and 12:30 or 1:00, be on time to all meetings or lectures or courses that you have to attend that day, and go home after putting in eight to ten hours of work. Try to go to happy hours occasionally - once every two or three weeks. Don't make friends with your fellow students, but be social and friendly with them. Save your weekends for making actual friends outside of school and spend time doing fun things that are unrelated to your job.
Up until I quit working for school, I'd been supporting myself as a waitress. I actually like that work a lot (and feel like I'm good at it!), but I've pretty much hit my ceiling in terms of earnings there and feel like I'll be aging out relatively soon anyway -- which is why I decided to get more education. Adapting to a 9-5 schedule is something I've been consciously working on, but even after about five months of being in school full time and not working, I can't say I've been successful at doing that. That's a worry in its own right, but I'll try to double down on it.
I'd prefer to do things the way I'm used to at work! But it seems like my concept of "work" and "professional," etc, isn't calibrated in the way it should be for grad school here. I'm also having a lot of trouble being motivated and organized when money/pay isn't on the line, but that's a whole other kettle of fish, because I *hate* not earning money (but can't work during the academic year at risk of losing my fellowship).
Anyway, hope that makes things more clear/specific? Suggestions for other resources (books, videos, etc) would also be great.
posted by rue72 at 8:56 PM on April 6, 2014
Best answer: Do you have ADHD or another issue that makes being on time/controlling your impulse to share things difficult? Seriously, is this a thing you should consider?
I very much agree with the young rope-rider here. What you're describing, in this question and the other related one, sounds like ADHD or a learning disability to me. Your school's office for disabilities or the counseling office may have referrals for a psychological evaluation.
posted by jaguar at 9:05 PM on April 6, 2014 [2 favorites]
I very much agree with the young rope-rider here. What you're describing, in this question and the other related one, sounds like ADHD or a learning disability to me. Your school's office for disabilities or the counseling office may have referrals for a psychological evaluation.
posted by jaguar at 9:05 PM on April 6, 2014 [2 favorites]
(And you'll want an evaluation by a psychologist (not a therapist or counselor or psychiatrist), because those are generally the reports that will hold weight with your school's disability office, which is the office that will help with accommodations that can help you with your studies.)
posted by jaguar at 9:08 PM on April 6, 2014
posted by jaguar at 9:08 PM on April 6, 2014
If this has been a problem your whole life, I agree, you really need to talk this over with a professional, and school counseling services are usually pretty good at dealing with these sorts of things. But, generally, it seems like the problem with not understanding what they want is that you really need to stop at some point and ask if you're understanding what they want, given that you're so often mistaken, and if you aren't 100% sure that you do, when you're not talking about exams, clarify. But don't clarify in class. Class is not the place for that. Clarify during office hours or by email.
Otherwise, I don't want to say this is necessarily the problem, but if you have a chronic ongoing problem with not understanding what your professors want in all kinds of assignments across all kinds of classes in this program, I think at some point you need to stop in and talk to an advisor or something about whether this is really a good program for you. It might be that you are just not good with this sort of material. This part doesn't sound like a social graces problem, it sounds like a problem with comprehension of subject matter. Part of that comprehension is knowing that if the test question is "what happened after 1957?", 1958 might be correct, but what the teacher is looking for a particular best answer that has to deal with the material you're currently covering, and if you don't know what that best answer is, you probably don't know the material as well as you might think you do.
posted by Sequence at 9:50 PM on April 6, 2014 [1 favorite]
Otherwise, I don't want to say this is necessarily the problem, but if you have a chronic ongoing problem with not understanding what your professors want in all kinds of assignments across all kinds of classes in this program, I think at some point you need to stop in and talk to an advisor or something about whether this is really a good program for you. It might be that you are just not good with this sort of material. This part doesn't sound like a social graces problem, it sounds like a problem with comprehension of subject matter. Part of that comprehension is knowing that if the test question is "what happened after 1957?", 1958 might be correct, but what the teacher is looking for a particular best answer that has to deal with the material you're currently covering, and if you don't know what that best answer is, you probably don't know the material as well as you might think you do.
posted by Sequence at 9:50 PM on April 6, 2014 [1 favorite]
I'm also having a lot of trouble being motivated and organized when money/pay isn't on the line
Money is on the line though. The work you do and connections you make right now are going to really direct your future career, which will translate into your future money. It isn't a direct hourly sort of compensation, but it is your money on the line.
I'd been supporting myself as a waitress. I actually like that work a lot (and feel like I'm good at it!), but I've pretty much hit my ceiling in terms of earnings there and feel like I'll be aging out relatively soon anyway -- which is why I decided to get more education
It's not that making more money shouldn't be a reason to pursue further education, but it shouldn't probably be the *only* reason, especially for graduate education. I'm not actually getting the sense that you actually like what you're studying? As a future policy wonk/bureaucrat, your whole life is going to be 9-5, more or less, with a lot of political maneuvering, and a high degree of professionalism. I mean, yeah, I think if this is the route you're dedicated to, you've just really gotta buckle down and get to it.
I tend to derail discussions away from the models we're learning about by asking about real-life issues or examples that I think fit into those models
Basically, it seems like their response to what I'm saying/writing always ends up being, "that's not wrong, but it's not what I care about.
As far as this goes, it's good you're aware of it. Probably not a huge deal in the grand scheme, but I would suggest just trying to listen more. Absorb. If you don't have something really pertinent and interesting to add, don't. You're paying to get knowledge from folks who have a lot more knowledge and experience than you do. I realize part of grad school is being ambitious and adding your own two cents, but try to strike a balance. If you find yourself sharing a lot of personal anecdotes in class that don't seem to land as really furthering the discussion, just hang back a bit. Saying less but making sure the things you do say have import and gravity and novelty is pretty much a formula for success in any field.
posted by Lutoslawski at 9:59 PM on April 6, 2014 [1 favorite]
Money is on the line though. The work you do and connections you make right now are going to really direct your future career, which will translate into your future money. It isn't a direct hourly sort of compensation, but it is your money on the line.
I'd been supporting myself as a waitress. I actually like that work a lot (and feel like I'm good at it!), but I've pretty much hit my ceiling in terms of earnings there and feel like I'll be aging out relatively soon anyway -- which is why I decided to get more education
It's not that making more money shouldn't be a reason to pursue further education, but it shouldn't probably be the *only* reason, especially for graduate education. I'm not actually getting the sense that you actually like what you're studying? As a future policy wonk/bureaucrat, your whole life is going to be 9-5, more or less, with a lot of political maneuvering, and a high degree of professionalism. I mean, yeah, I think if this is the route you're dedicated to, you've just really gotta buckle down and get to it.
I tend to derail discussions away from the models we're learning about by asking about real-life issues or examples that I think fit into those models
Basically, it seems like their response to what I'm saying/writing always ends up being, "that's not wrong, but it's not what I care about.
As far as this goes, it's good you're aware of it. Probably not a huge deal in the grand scheme, but I would suggest just trying to listen more. Absorb. If you don't have something really pertinent and interesting to add, don't. You're paying to get knowledge from folks who have a lot more knowledge and experience than you do. I realize part of grad school is being ambitious and adding your own two cents, but try to strike a balance. If you find yourself sharing a lot of personal anecdotes in class that don't seem to land as really furthering the discussion, just hang back a bit. Saying less but making sure the things you do say have import and gravity and novelty is pretty much a formula for success in any field.
posted by Lutoslawski at 9:59 PM on April 6, 2014 [1 favorite]
I'd prefer to do things the way I'm used to at work! But it seems like my concept of "work" and "professional," etc, isn't calibrated in the way it should be for grad school here.
And just to add: yeah, I mean, being a waitress is a totally different atmosphere with totally different expectations than getting an MPP. I think to some extent you're looking for discrete changes when I think maybe you just need to shift your paradigm and expectations generally.
posted by Lutoslawski at 10:05 PM on April 6, 2014
And just to add: yeah, I mean, being a waitress is a totally different atmosphere with totally different expectations than getting an MPP. I think to some extent you're looking for discrete changes when I think maybe you just need to shift your paradigm and expectations generally.
posted by Lutoslawski at 10:05 PM on April 6, 2014
Best answer: First, my department had a similar professional masters program and every year there were a few people who were socially unprepared in some of the ways you describe. They struggled in some ways but every single one of them graduated -- as long as you are passing your classes and are capable of completing your exit requirement project (usually a thesis or professional report), you are going to graduate and get the same degree as everyone else. So it's not a dire situation, but you are right to focus on it because the norms and expectations of a professional masters program intentionally mirror those of the working world, and the same skills that work in one are needed in the other.
So second, I think there are a couple of things being conflated in this question. One is about how to read social situations and deal with your personal issues, and that honestly seems more like something to talk about with a good therapist, rather than something you can solve here. But another aspect of the question is about the transition between different professional settings and being an outsider to academia, and that's something for which there are a lot of resources within academia. Your grad school (and/or diversity office, disabilities office, etc) should have resources for this, and there are books and papers on this as well, variously targeted at first generation students, women, foreign students, or students from underrepresented groups, but all overlapping.
People have borrowed James Scott's phrase "the hidden transcript" to describe all of the things you are just magically supposed to know when you walk into the ivory tower, but that no one usually says publicly. This puts anyone not in the loop at a clear disadvantage, so people have gone to considerable effort to explicate the hidden transcript to help level the playing field. It's things like knowing when to be formal and when to be informal, how to dress, and what questions to ask in class or office hours, for example, and continuing into the job hunt and transition to post-masters professional employment.
posted by Dip Flash at 10:23 PM on April 6, 2014 [3 favorites]
So second, I think there are a couple of things being conflated in this question. One is about how to read social situations and deal with your personal issues, and that honestly seems more like something to talk about with a good therapist, rather than something you can solve here. But another aspect of the question is about the transition between different professional settings and being an outsider to academia, and that's something for which there are a lot of resources within academia. Your grad school (and/or diversity office, disabilities office, etc) should have resources for this, and there are books and papers on this as well, variously targeted at first generation students, women, foreign students, or students from underrepresented groups, but all overlapping.
People have borrowed James Scott's phrase "the hidden transcript" to describe all of the things you are just magically supposed to know when you walk into the ivory tower, but that no one usually says publicly. This puts anyone not in the loop at a clear disadvantage, so people have gone to considerable effort to explicate the hidden transcript to help level the playing field. It's things like knowing when to be formal and when to be informal, how to dress, and what questions to ask in class or office hours, for example, and continuing into the job hunt and transition to post-masters professional employment.
posted by Dip Flash at 10:23 PM on April 6, 2014 [3 favorites]
I'm not in academia, so I could be way off here.
But a lot of the interpersonal problems you're describing could boil down to the perception that you're a slacker. You say you have trouble knowing which things have to get done and which can be slacked off on. If you've made the wrong decision on that a few times, when you bring up a point in class and it's not received well, it could be that it's because somewhere in the back of their minds people are thinking "ARGH, you were late and you didn't finish your piece for group work." And even if what you say is "not wrong," they are predisposed to disagree because they see you as not taking things seriously enough. [I mean it could also be that you are unconventionally brilliant and your ideas have the potential to rock the foundations of your field of study, which would naturally create some pushback].
Upthread it's suggested that you get evaluated for ADHD. That couldn't hurt. If you do have ADHD (or depression, or anxiety or any number of other issues) it's almost certainly a big part of your problem, and solving that will help things a lot.
Can you talk to an advisor about your difficulties and get advice?
In the meantime I suggest striving for ultra-clear communication. When you realize that you've come across as being disrespectful, talk to that person afterwards. Apologize. Insert a short explanation of your difficulty in that area. If there's something you can do to make things better, offer to do that thing. When you aren't sure what the expectation is around a date, ask up-front "Is this a deadline or a target? I will do my best to meet it but I want to make sure I understand what's at stake."
posted by bunderful at 5:51 AM on April 7, 2014 [1 favorite]
But a lot of the interpersonal problems you're describing could boil down to the perception that you're a slacker. You say you have trouble knowing which things have to get done and which can be slacked off on. If you've made the wrong decision on that a few times, when you bring up a point in class and it's not received well, it could be that it's because somewhere in the back of their minds people are thinking "ARGH, you were late and you didn't finish your piece for group work." And even if what you say is "not wrong," they are predisposed to disagree because they see you as not taking things seriously enough. [I mean it could also be that you are unconventionally brilliant and your ideas have the potential to rock the foundations of your field of study, which would naturally create some pushback].
Upthread it's suggested that you get evaluated for ADHD. That couldn't hurt. If you do have ADHD (or depression, or anxiety or any number of other issues) it's almost certainly a big part of your problem, and solving that will help things a lot.
Can you talk to an advisor about your difficulties and get advice?
In the meantime I suggest striving for ultra-clear communication. When you realize that you've come across as being disrespectful, talk to that person afterwards. Apologize. Insert a short explanation of your difficulty in that area. If there's something you can do to make things better, offer to do that thing. When you aren't sure what the expectation is around a date, ask up-front "Is this a deadline or a target? I will do my best to meet it but I want to make sure I understand what's at stake."
posted by bunderful at 5:51 AM on April 7, 2014 [1 favorite]
I have a trainee in my professional job who, I imagine, could be asking the same questions about her interactions with various team members. One of the things she seems to struggle with is that she seems to listen in the beginning, then her brain kicks in and she starts to 'think' because she assumes she has understood what is required. Then she gets carried away with what she thinks she's supposed to do and misses all the important information that was communicated after she stopped listening...result is that people are unhappy with her because she does not deliver reliable quality and status and she gets frustrated because she genuinely tries. When we debrief work 9 times out of 10 I hear the words 'but I thought/assumed'...as I've been training people for years I appreciate that this trainee and I do not intuitively understand each other but I also know that I usually do manage to train people well so...
If you are one of these people who stop listening as soon as they think they have understood something stop doing that. Assume you know nothing and listen to all that is being said. Then validate what you think you've understood after class.
If you don't manage to do that two things will happen. You frustrate people and they don't want to work with you because they can't rely on you. What I mean by that is that they cannot assume you'll do what you're supposed to do the way it should be done. Secondly, you irritate people because you thinking you know when you clearly don't and using that as an excuse regularly is arrogant. What you're saying indirectly is that you don't need to be told because you already know or need less instruction or whatever. That's unlikeable even in people who manage to deliver. But by the sound of it you don't manage to deliver...at that point people don't like working with you because it's hard to work with unreliable people and don't like you because you seem to feel superior when you're not.
posted by koahiatamadl at 6:38 AM on April 7, 2014 [6 favorites]
If you are one of these people who stop listening as soon as they think they have understood something stop doing that. Assume you know nothing and listen to all that is being said. Then validate what you think you've understood after class.
If you don't manage to do that two things will happen. You frustrate people and they don't want to work with you because they can't rely on you. What I mean by that is that they cannot assume you'll do what you're supposed to do the way it should be done. Secondly, you irritate people because you thinking you know when you clearly don't and using that as an excuse regularly is arrogant. What you're saying indirectly is that you don't need to be told because you already know or need less instruction or whatever. That's unlikeable even in people who manage to deliver. But by the sound of it you don't manage to deliver...at that point people don't like working with you because it's hard to work with unreliable people and don't like you because you seem to feel superior when you're not.
posted by koahiatamadl at 6:38 AM on April 7, 2014 [6 favorites]
Best answer: Until you can gauge the appropriate amount of questioning and classroom participation, don't participate in class discussions. Listen to what other students are asking and discussing and make notes about how they differ from your usual questions and contributions.
If you require additional information or confirmation of what is being assigned, speak with the professor after class or in office hours, so as not to derail the class. This will also keep your assignments on topic.
Get evaluated for a learning disability, what you are describing does sound like an attention or processing issue. If so, find out what, if any, accomodation will be provided and take advantage of it.
Dress neatly. Your clothing should be clean and in good repair. Ditto your shoes. Get a nice haircut. If you use makeup, don't go in the direction of bozofication. Use just enough to give a clean, healthy appearance. Natural colors, and not a lot of it. Get your eyebrows arched. Done. You should spend about 5 minutes total on make up. Maybe 15 on your hair on days you shampoo and blow dry. Bathe daily, don't stink and don't use perfume. Too many people are allergic. Save perfume for yourself, or your private life.
I think that if you stop contributing in class, and start listening, that you'll pick up on the things that you're missing. Wanting to over-share and to talk a lot in class is a CLASSIC indicator of insecurity, almost like you want to demonstrate to the professor and your classmates that you deserve your place in your program. You will be better served to quiet down, and just listen.
The quieter you are, the easier it is to like you. I had to learn a lot of this myself. Life is so much better when you let the teacher teach and your classmates learn, without your input.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 6:49 AM on April 7, 2014 [4 favorites]
If you require additional information or confirmation of what is being assigned, speak with the professor after class or in office hours, so as not to derail the class. This will also keep your assignments on topic.
Get evaluated for a learning disability, what you are describing does sound like an attention or processing issue. If so, find out what, if any, accomodation will be provided and take advantage of it.
Dress neatly. Your clothing should be clean and in good repair. Ditto your shoes. Get a nice haircut. If you use makeup, don't go in the direction of bozofication. Use just enough to give a clean, healthy appearance. Natural colors, and not a lot of it. Get your eyebrows arched. Done. You should spend about 5 minutes total on make up. Maybe 15 on your hair on days you shampoo and blow dry. Bathe daily, don't stink and don't use perfume. Too many people are allergic. Save perfume for yourself, or your private life.
I think that if you stop contributing in class, and start listening, that you'll pick up on the things that you're missing. Wanting to over-share and to talk a lot in class is a CLASSIC indicator of insecurity, almost like you want to demonstrate to the professor and your classmates that you deserve your place in your program. You will be better served to quiet down, and just listen.
The quieter you are, the easier it is to like you. I had to learn a lot of this myself. Life is so much better when you let the teacher teach and your classmates learn, without your input.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 6:49 AM on April 7, 2014 [4 favorites]
Best answer: people are constantly thinking that I'm not listening or trying to question their authority or ignoring instructions or making light of things, etc, but I'm actually just misunderstanding what they want
I sometimes misunderstand people because I tend to be very literal-minded. In the moment, I really think I do understand what people mean, because I understand each of the words and can make sense of them. But there is often an unspoken context that I miss. So I have had to develop a habit where I ask questions to test my understanding, and I restate and summarize what was said, even when I think I've understood. I would rather people think that I'm too meticulous about getting everything right than miss something because I thought I got it.
When a misunderstanding happens anyway, I say "I misunderstood. I thought that's what you were asking for. It was my mistake."
Going a little overboard with checking my understanding can come across as respectful in conversations (it's part of active listening), and I bet it works well for restaurant servers, but not in class. In class, it's seen as hogging attention. Check your understanding with fellow students first. Just ask the person sitting next to you in class, or even better: form a study group. If you can get any kind of tutoring or peer assistance, use that time to test your understanding. If you are connected with fellow students on social media, go ahead and post something like "Is [current event] an example of [theory]?" because if you're right, you'll look smart. If you're wrong, a certain subset of students won't be able to resist correcting you, and you'll end up getting the right information.
posted by Bentobox Humperdinck at 7:38 AM on April 7, 2014 [1 favorite]
I sometimes misunderstand people because I tend to be very literal-minded. In the moment, I really think I do understand what people mean, because I understand each of the words and can make sense of them. But there is often an unspoken context that I miss. So I have had to develop a habit where I ask questions to test my understanding, and I restate and summarize what was said, even when I think I've understood. I would rather people think that I'm too meticulous about getting everything right than miss something because I thought I got it.
When a misunderstanding happens anyway, I say "I misunderstood. I thought that's what you were asking for. It was my mistake."
Going a little overboard with checking my understanding can come across as respectful in conversations (it's part of active listening), and I bet it works well for restaurant servers, but not in class. In class, it's seen as hogging attention. Check your understanding with fellow students first. Just ask the person sitting next to you in class, or even better: form a study group. If you can get any kind of tutoring or peer assistance, use that time to test your understanding. If you are connected with fellow students on social media, go ahead and post something like "Is [current event] an example of [theory]?" because if you're right, you'll look smart. If you're wrong, a certain subset of students won't be able to resist correcting you, and you'll end up getting the right information.
posted by Bentobox Humperdinck at 7:38 AM on April 7, 2014 [1 favorite]
In class, I think that from my professors' perspective, I tend to derail discussions away from the models we're learning about by asking about real-life issues or examples that I think fit into those models -- I've tried to stop, because it seems to drive them up a wall, but I still end up putting my foot in it fairly often because I can't seem to predict what will be irrelevant and what won't. That issue comes up in assignments like problem sets, papers, and tests, too -- I seem to have a completely different idea than the professors and other students of what's important and what's not, and am constantly misunderstanding the questions they're asking. Basically, it seems like their response to what I'm saying/writing always ends up being, "that's not wrong, but it's not what I care about."
Spend 3-4 hours looking carefully at the syllabuses for the classes that you're taking now, and any classes that are probably in the same series (if there are any), and take some notes. What are the things that the professors in the department have decided to focus on? Are there any consistencies in the ideas, content of the readings, etc? Those are the things that your professor thinks are important, so that's what they want you to think about and ask questions about.
For example, if in your public policy course the professors are really focused on introducing you to theory and empirical research about X, then a good question might be, how does theory Y that deals with X apply to the findings of study Z? You may know a case D that seems to have something to do with X, Y or Z, but that's kind of a derail because no one else in class really has any experience with that particular case and therefore can't contribute to the discussion, and the professor has already selected examples that he or she thinks are relevant.
If you want to be very methodical about this, then you might also want to think back about specific misunderstandings that you've had in the past. Are misunderstandings happening because you aren't as familiar with the terms or theories that professors and students who have been in the program for a longer period of time are throwing around? This might cause you to misapply those concepts, either by not understanding their meaning or by applying them to cases that they were not intended to be applied to. In that case, make a list of problem concepts and theories, and then dig back into any course readings that have dealt with that concept before; you could also do a quick Google scholar search to help yourself out. Look for four or five examples of how that idea or phrase is used in research, and note the similarities and differences in those usages. Doing this a couple of times might help you get a better feel for where your professors are coming from, and if you still aren't clear, then your notes could make for an interesting conversation with one of your professors during office hours.
Also I tried not to say much to start with and hung around students who seemed to be getting things right in grad school to see what I could learn from them. The cultures of departments vary a lot, but look at where the other students are coming from to give you clues about the types of behavioral norms they expect. Are they working in government, for example? Then, broadly speaking, you should probably wear something like business casual, plain makeup, etc.
posted by _cave at 9:44 AM on April 7, 2014 [1 favorite]
Spend 3-4 hours looking carefully at the syllabuses for the classes that you're taking now, and any classes that are probably in the same series (if there are any), and take some notes. What are the things that the professors in the department have decided to focus on? Are there any consistencies in the ideas, content of the readings, etc? Those are the things that your professor thinks are important, so that's what they want you to think about and ask questions about.
For example, if in your public policy course the professors are really focused on introducing you to theory and empirical research about X, then a good question might be, how does theory Y that deals with X apply to the findings of study Z? You may know a case D that seems to have something to do with X, Y or Z, but that's kind of a derail because no one else in class really has any experience with that particular case and therefore can't contribute to the discussion, and the professor has already selected examples that he or she thinks are relevant.
If you want to be very methodical about this, then you might also want to think back about specific misunderstandings that you've had in the past. Are misunderstandings happening because you aren't as familiar with the terms or theories that professors and students who have been in the program for a longer period of time are throwing around? This might cause you to misapply those concepts, either by not understanding their meaning or by applying them to cases that they were not intended to be applied to. In that case, make a list of problem concepts and theories, and then dig back into any course readings that have dealt with that concept before; you could also do a quick Google scholar search to help yourself out. Look for four or five examples of how that idea or phrase is used in research, and note the similarities and differences in those usages. Doing this a couple of times might help you get a better feel for where your professors are coming from, and if you still aren't clear, then your notes could make for an interesting conversation with one of your professors during office hours.
Also I tried not to say much to start with and hung around students who seemed to be getting things right in grad school to see what I could learn from them. The cultures of departments vary a lot, but look at where the other students are coming from to give you clues about the types of behavioral norms they expect. Are they working in government, for example? Then, broadly speaking, you should probably wear something like business casual, plain makeup, etc.
posted by _cave at 9:44 AM on April 7, 2014 [1 favorite]
Try going a few class sessions without verbally participating and see if you find thath you learn more due to not getting tripped up in your own thoughts.
I'm trying to figure out how to say this part, but I get a sense of a ...(socio-economic) class? issue in your followup. Like maybe your classmates and professors are into highfalutin CAREERS and you come off a little more waitress-y? It's a different mindset they possess and I myself can't put my finger on it (I was a waitress, trained welder, hopefully soon to be forklist operator, but also went to a really good college after graduating at the top of my class), but are your classmates the kind of people who would not be able to handle waiting tables even if they were about to be homeless, much less enjoy it? That could cause some of this dissonance you feel. If that's teh case try the old fake it till you make it technique.
posted by WeekendJen at 12:21 PM on April 7, 2014 [1 favorite]
I'm trying to figure out how to say this part, but I get a sense of a ...(socio-economic) class? issue in your followup. Like maybe your classmates and professors are into highfalutin CAREERS and you come off a little more waitress-y? It's a different mindset they possess and I myself can't put my finger on it (I was a waitress, trained welder, hopefully soon to be forklist operator, but also went to a really good college after graduating at the top of my class), but are your classmates the kind of people who would not be able to handle waiting tables even if they were about to be homeless, much less enjoy it? That could cause some of this dissonance you feel. If that's teh case try the old fake it till you make it technique.
posted by WeekendJen at 12:21 PM on April 7, 2014 [1 favorite]
Reiterating koahiatamadl and Ruthless Bunny, with more emphasis.
So many times, when a person says "I don't fit in," they are asking for the institution to recognize their individuality. The individual is looking for attention and validation for attributes that are not prized by the institution. Professors will write reference letters for students who get things done, who provide results, are reliable, don't rock the boat, don't muddy the water. Professors will find internships for students that make the department look good. If they think you are a loose cannon, they will not risk their own professional reputation to put you out in the field.
The ability to monitor yourself and CHOOSE to fit in with the group is part of maturity. Yes, you are giving something up. Yes, it is permanent. From now on, you will have a Professional Self and a Personal Self.
You need to go into Stealth Mode. Like sockermom points out-- graduate school is preparation for professional success. Professors won't "accept" you for your quirky, off-beat, individualistic self. That self needs to go inside a professional shell. You don't want to be recognized for standing out in any way. Imagine yourself as an infiltrator, observe the dress and behavior of the group and move silently to fit in. Follow the grooming and wardrobe examples of the most successful students. You don't want to "dress like yourself," you don't want to express your personality through your clothing, you want to cloak your personality.
For many people, success in life is predicated by getting out of bed and starting the day. You cannot burn the candle at both ends. If you have trouble waking up in the morning, you MUST GO TO BED earlier. Keep moving your bedtime earlier until you can wake up cheerful and bright at 7 or earlier.
Make an absolute, utterly sacrosanct commitment to be on time. Become obsessive about promptness. Punctuality is your number one goal. Nothing is more important. Constantly ask yourself, will this decision or activity make me ON TIME or late? The most risky decisions are unconsidered-- to waste time or neglect tasks. Set your cell phone to buzz every half hour. When it goes off, check what you are doing and get back on target. Wear a bracelet with a special meaning-- whenever you notice the bracelet, use it as a reminder to get back on target.
Never accept lack of preparation or unprofessionalism in yourself. It is humiliating, awful, distressing, to be late with an assignment. Push, push, push. Be the nasty, judgmental voice in your head saying, "Get it done, and then play." or "You must have a rough draft by Monday, no excuses."
Always do the readings before the class. Outline the reading sections, and use visual markings to show important ideas or structural concepts. Arrows, venn diagrams, clouds. If there is a section in the readings that you do not understand, mark it with a giant question mark.
Sit towards the front, toward the center, ARRIVE EARLY.
In class, concentrate on TAKING NOTES. Make mental map style diagrams that connect the ideas. If the professor refers to the readings, make a star in the margin, and later, go back and re-read that section against your notes.
If a real life scenario occurs to you, write it down, but keep engaged with the professor's line of thought-- don't skedaddle down the garden path with your own ideas.
Don't talk in class. You don't want to be a distraction, someone who derails conversations, someone who is argumentative, or obviously clueless. If it's a seminar style class, and you must contribute for part of your grade, keep your contributions limited to the material. Never provide current topic examples or real life scenarios. Stick with examples proposed by the textbook, the readings , or the professor. Always loop back to the material and the notes. Be willing to relinquish the floor immediately-- don't keep the conversation going on and on.
If you have questions about the class topics, visit the professor during office hours. Prepare for your meeting. Go back and re-read the lecture notes, re-read the assignment. Find the question marks that you made in your original notes, and write them down on a separate sheet of paper. Refine and clarify the questions against the material. Make the questions purposeful and specific, so that they will help you understand the material. Ask the professor for additional readings. As soon as you have an answer, say something nice, and then leave.
posted by ohshenandoah at 2:41 PM on April 7, 2014 [3 favorites]
So many times, when a person says "I don't fit in," they are asking for the institution to recognize their individuality. The individual is looking for attention and validation for attributes that are not prized by the institution. Professors will write reference letters for students who get things done, who provide results, are reliable, don't rock the boat, don't muddy the water. Professors will find internships for students that make the department look good. If they think you are a loose cannon, they will not risk their own professional reputation to put you out in the field.
The ability to monitor yourself and CHOOSE to fit in with the group is part of maturity. Yes, you are giving something up. Yes, it is permanent. From now on, you will have a Professional Self and a Personal Self.
You need to go into Stealth Mode. Like sockermom points out-- graduate school is preparation for professional success. Professors won't "accept" you for your quirky, off-beat, individualistic self. That self needs to go inside a professional shell. You don't want to be recognized for standing out in any way. Imagine yourself as an infiltrator, observe the dress and behavior of the group and move silently to fit in. Follow the grooming and wardrobe examples of the most successful students. You don't want to "dress like yourself," you don't want to express your personality through your clothing, you want to cloak your personality.
For many people, success in life is predicated by getting out of bed and starting the day. You cannot burn the candle at both ends. If you have trouble waking up in the morning, you MUST GO TO BED earlier. Keep moving your bedtime earlier until you can wake up cheerful and bright at 7 or earlier.
Make an absolute, utterly sacrosanct commitment to be on time. Become obsessive about promptness. Punctuality is your number one goal. Nothing is more important. Constantly ask yourself, will this decision or activity make me ON TIME or late? The most risky decisions are unconsidered-- to waste time or neglect tasks. Set your cell phone to buzz every half hour. When it goes off, check what you are doing and get back on target. Wear a bracelet with a special meaning-- whenever you notice the bracelet, use it as a reminder to get back on target.
Never accept lack of preparation or unprofessionalism in yourself. It is humiliating, awful, distressing, to be late with an assignment. Push, push, push. Be the nasty, judgmental voice in your head saying, "Get it done, and then play." or "You must have a rough draft by Monday, no excuses."
Always do the readings before the class. Outline the reading sections, and use visual markings to show important ideas or structural concepts. Arrows, venn diagrams, clouds. If there is a section in the readings that you do not understand, mark it with a giant question mark.
Sit towards the front, toward the center, ARRIVE EARLY.
In class, concentrate on TAKING NOTES. Make mental map style diagrams that connect the ideas. If the professor refers to the readings, make a star in the margin, and later, go back and re-read that section against your notes.
If a real life scenario occurs to you, write it down, but keep engaged with the professor's line of thought-- don't skedaddle down the garden path with your own ideas.
Don't talk in class. You don't want to be a distraction, someone who derails conversations, someone who is argumentative, or obviously clueless. If it's a seminar style class, and you must contribute for part of your grade, keep your contributions limited to the material. Never provide current topic examples or real life scenarios. Stick with examples proposed by the textbook, the readings , or the professor. Always loop back to the material and the notes. Be willing to relinquish the floor immediately-- don't keep the conversation going on and on.
If you have questions about the class topics, visit the professor during office hours. Prepare for your meeting. Go back and re-read the lecture notes, re-read the assignment. Find the question marks that you made in your original notes, and write them down on a separate sheet of paper. Refine and clarify the questions against the material. Make the questions purposeful and specific, so that they will help you understand the material. Ask the professor for additional readings. As soon as you have an answer, say something nice, and then leave.
posted by ohshenandoah at 2:41 PM on April 7, 2014 [3 favorites]
Best answer: Is it possible that, professional goals aside, this program (not saying the career itself, I have no idea) might be a bad fit for you, in terms of orientation, core philosophy, or values? I can imagine your contributions would be more welcome in somewhat thematically related (but not often as remunerative) masters' programs like environmental studies, social work, maybe public health, maybe urban planning. If this makes sense to you, do you have the option of taking electives that speak to you? Maybe it would be easier to get through the grindy classes if you had one or two that let you engage with ideas in the way you'd like.
That aside, speaking from recent experience (in upper-year seminars) - do not (generally, unless there are clear reasons to believe you can ignore this) let this bullshit about "free thought" get in the way of a grade. No matter how respectfully you think you're doing it, don't critique the professor's pet theory. Certainly not its central commitments, definitely not in declarative sentences, and not, if you're determined to chew on a corner of it, with any energy, at all. Maybe, if something's really bothering you, find a way to address it as obliquely and obsequiously as possible, in a question. Or all right, just ask "I was wondering if you could clarify [very small aspect]". But this isn't worth the trouble.
Seminars are there so the prof can ensure you're adequately digesting his/her ideas/the syllabus. Like anywhere (I can't believe I forgot this), people want to look good, they want to be right, they want to get through. That's it. The people who get to be right are the profs, end of. It does appear to me (now) that deference and conventionality trump other things, by a mile.
Deference and conventionality are communicated through bodily habitus, tone of voice, all that. You can't walk into a classroom like you'd normally walk into a place of work or say a gym, casual, comfortable, full of forward movement and intention. Smaller steps, arms close to body, quieter - just smaller - is I think the expectation around how students should be, physically. It's hard to approximate this if you're over 25. (This is from reflection I've engaged in recently about how I'm coming across, compared to other students.) I think, when you're going to class, maybe imagine you're going to visit somebody else's grandma, or if you've worked in a corporate setting, to a big meeting where the CEO is going to speak.
Basically yes, stick to the syllabus and don't ruffle feathers. If you've got a burning question or issue you want to address, save it for a safe environmental studies elective, or the pub, or an anonymous blog, or a sympatico organization outside of school. In class, get it out of your system by writing your thought down in your notes, and then switch your focus back to absorbing and metabolizing.
posted by cotton dress sock at 6:36 PM on April 7, 2014 [1 favorite]
That aside, speaking from recent experience (in upper-year seminars) - do not (generally, unless there are clear reasons to believe you can ignore this) let this bullshit about "free thought" get in the way of a grade. No matter how respectfully you think you're doing it, don't critique the professor's pet theory. Certainly not its central commitments, definitely not in declarative sentences, and not, if you're determined to chew on a corner of it, with any energy, at all. Maybe, if something's really bothering you, find a way to address it as obliquely and obsequiously as possible, in a question. Or all right, just ask "I was wondering if you could clarify [very small aspect]". But this isn't worth the trouble.
Seminars are there so the prof can ensure you're adequately digesting his/her ideas/the syllabus. Like anywhere (I can't believe I forgot this), people want to look good, they want to be right, they want to get through. That's it. The people who get to be right are the profs, end of. It does appear to me (now) that deference and conventionality trump other things, by a mile.
Deference and conventionality are communicated through bodily habitus, tone of voice, all that. You can't walk into a classroom like you'd normally walk into a place of work or say a gym, casual, comfortable, full of forward movement and intention. Smaller steps, arms close to body, quieter - just smaller - is I think the expectation around how students should be, physically. It's hard to approximate this if you're over 25. (This is from reflection I've engaged in recently about how I'm coming across, compared to other students.) I think, when you're going to class, maybe imagine you're going to visit somebody else's grandma, or if you've worked in a corporate setting, to a big meeting where the CEO is going to speak.
Basically yes, stick to the syllabus and don't ruffle feathers. If you've got a burning question or issue you want to address, save it for a safe environmental studies elective, or the pub, or an anonymous blog, or a sympatico organization outside of school. In class, get it out of your system by writing your thought down in your notes, and then switch your focus back to absorbing and metabolizing.
posted by cotton dress sock at 6:36 PM on April 7, 2014 [1 favorite]
You can never go wrong by reading Miss Manners. Over the years I have absorbed so much positive social behavior from her books. It's not geared towards your situation specifically but those general social skills are welcome everywhere.
I think also you could try to find a colleague (fellow student) mentor. I have pretty good social skills and I'm also a big know it all and if I were in your class and generally had a positive impression of you and you asked if you could run some stuff by me (is this on point for the paper/discussion? What kind of questions should I ask the prof? etc) I'd probably be so tickled to be asked that I'd do my best to help and really be on your team.
If not asking a fellow student, you could still try to find someone who does well the stuff you do poorly, and just pick stuff up from them the way you would a good dancer on the dance floor.
I think social interactions require a certain amount of work. Some people have been doing it for so long that they make it look easy (and may be barely aware of doing it themselves). But if at least some of the people in an interaction aren't doing some decent social lubricant work, everything feels harder, more awkward, meaner. At the same time, that kind of work is still kind of despised and seen as feminized or a sign of low status. Generally women are expected to do a lot more of it than men are, and then kind of belittled for it. It sucks but there it is. I wouldn't be surprised if you're getting extra backlash for being a woman not doing 'her share' of the social heavy lifting. But it's a learnable skill and mayve not so different than some skills I'm sure you had to home as a waitress - getting good tips is about personality (projection) as much as efficiency.
Good luck!!
posted by Salamandrous at 5:44 PM on April 9, 2014
I think also you could try to find a colleague (fellow student) mentor. I have pretty good social skills and I'm also a big know it all and if I were in your class and generally had a positive impression of you and you asked if you could run some stuff by me (is this on point for the paper/discussion? What kind of questions should I ask the prof? etc) I'd probably be so tickled to be asked that I'd do my best to help and really be on your team.
If not asking a fellow student, you could still try to find someone who does well the stuff you do poorly, and just pick stuff up from them the way you would a good dancer on the dance floor.
I think social interactions require a certain amount of work. Some people have been doing it for so long that they make it look easy (and may be barely aware of doing it themselves). But if at least some of the people in an interaction aren't doing some decent social lubricant work, everything feels harder, more awkward, meaner. At the same time, that kind of work is still kind of despised and seen as feminized or a sign of low status. Generally women are expected to do a lot more of it than men are, and then kind of belittled for it. It sucks but there it is. I wouldn't be surprised if you're getting extra backlash for being a woman not doing 'her share' of the social heavy lifting. But it's a learnable skill and mayve not so different than some skills I'm sure you had to home as a waitress - getting good tips is about personality (projection) as much as efficiency.
Good luck!!
posted by Salamandrous at 5:44 PM on April 9, 2014
Best answer: While I agree with others above that you would benefit from taking a step back and listening to the conversation in class more together with an evaluation for ADHD or similar issues, you may also be coming up against social class issues. If you're a first-generation college student (or, realistically, a first generation graduate student) even a professional master's program may present challenges for you.
You might find reading This Fine Place So Far from Home: Voices of Academics from the Working Class or Degrees of Inequality: Culture, Class, and Gender in American Higher Education or something along similar lines useful in order to better understand higher education and cue yourself into some of the customs and oddities therein. This won't solve your behavioral missteps, but it might illuminate how they're being perceived by others.
posted by librarylis at 9:34 PM on April 9, 2014 [1 favorite]
You might find reading This Fine Place So Far from Home: Voices of Academics from the Working Class or Degrees of Inequality: Culture, Class, and Gender in American Higher Education or something along similar lines useful in order to better understand higher education and cue yourself into some of the customs and oddities therein. This won't solve your behavioral missteps, but it might illuminate how they're being perceived by others.
posted by librarylis at 9:34 PM on April 9, 2014 [1 favorite]
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posted by travelwithcats at 7:15 PM on April 6, 2014