My future just doesn't fit anymore
November 1, 2013 10:09 AM Subscribe
When leaving is terrifying, but staying's unbearable: please help me figure out what to do.
I've been with my husband since age 18; almost a dozen years. Married half that. In so many ways I won the relationship lottery. He's my best friend. We've had, and still have, incredible times together. He's supportive, hilarious, very attractive and makes a ton of money (I don't). We do have our issues, but most everything is either fixable (communication) or I've been able to suck up (traditional gender roles that chafe, living in his hometown city for 12 years because of his very high-paying job, while I'm dying to live elsewhere, to travel long-term, to move near MY family and friends). We've attended couples therapy three times, but so far it's felt awfully (and painfully) beside the point.
Because this is me. Months later, I still feel the same. I've been in individual therapy the whole while, gone to a meeting at the Center, hit up a few lesbian bars. But because I'm married, I just don't have enough information; I am at the end of my leash, as far as figuring it out. Right now, I am mostly attracted to women. But I'm not entirely unattracted to men; if I were it'd be so much simpler. I wouldn't feel like there's something wrong with me – why can't I desire this incredible man who loves me so much?
I have never dealt with anything this agonizing, this painful. Which has kept me in this limbo for months, marking time. Continuing to have sex with him, even if it makes me turn my face and cry, because the pain of distance is even more unbearable. (At least he's mostly stopped the badgering.) Waiting to feel differently. But nothing changes, and on clear days, I realize that sex can't be a feat of endurance for the rest of my life. And that all those other things I've sucked up really are important to me. And that there's nothing wrong with that – even though sometimes it feels like there's chorus of people in my head (like my mom) telling me otherwise.
But the reality of leaving him terrifies me. It's being alone for the first time in my adult life. Supporting myself. Losing my house (because I sure can't pay the mortgage); though I'm mostly antsy to leave, this city (my support system is all elsewhere, mostly in famously expensive SF); the entire life we've built together for over a decade. And most of all, it's me not being with him – my partner, my best friend.
What complicates things further, we both want kids, and time might be limited for him for medical reasons. He is pushing me to make a decision. He is against a trial separation. It's either in, or out, and it's all on me, he says.
When I am completely honest with myself, I know I'm already too far out. I've confronted too much, had too many realizations I can't turn back or swallow back down. I'm not going to miraculously become sexually attracted to him. There's no way I'll be able to continue into our future – even our dreamy hetero rich-guy future – without resentment building and building, without regrets, without bitterness. And he deserves to be set free, because this limbo sucks for him too. And if I can be strong enough while we're in this amicable place, that's much better than any further down the line.
But I am so, so scared. I'm scared of pain, of loneliness, and especially of regret. Has anyone been through something similar? How do you know you're making the right decision? Other than telling him (oh god), what should my first steps be? We are in CA. I'll save some of the logistical stuff for future questions, because I'm sure I'll have plenty. Last of all, on those evenings I'm weakened by terror and anxiety, and everything in me longs to reach for him, how do I not?
I've done my best to pare this down, so let me know if you need any more information. Feel free to email me at morninganyway(at)gmail(dot)com. Thank you so much.
(And please, do be kind.)
I've been with my husband since age 18; almost a dozen years. Married half that. In so many ways I won the relationship lottery. He's my best friend. We've had, and still have, incredible times together. He's supportive, hilarious, very attractive and makes a ton of money (I don't). We do have our issues, but most everything is either fixable (communication) or I've been able to suck up (traditional gender roles that chafe, living in his hometown city for 12 years because of his very high-paying job, while I'm dying to live elsewhere, to travel long-term, to move near MY family and friends). We've attended couples therapy three times, but so far it's felt awfully (and painfully) beside the point.
Because this is me. Months later, I still feel the same. I've been in individual therapy the whole while, gone to a meeting at the Center, hit up a few lesbian bars. But because I'm married, I just don't have enough information; I am at the end of my leash, as far as figuring it out. Right now, I am mostly attracted to women. But I'm not entirely unattracted to men; if I were it'd be so much simpler. I wouldn't feel like there's something wrong with me – why can't I desire this incredible man who loves me so much?
I have never dealt with anything this agonizing, this painful. Which has kept me in this limbo for months, marking time. Continuing to have sex with him, even if it makes me turn my face and cry, because the pain of distance is even more unbearable. (At least he's mostly stopped the badgering.) Waiting to feel differently. But nothing changes, and on clear days, I realize that sex can't be a feat of endurance for the rest of my life. And that all those other things I've sucked up really are important to me. And that there's nothing wrong with that – even though sometimes it feels like there's chorus of people in my head (like my mom) telling me otherwise.
But the reality of leaving him terrifies me. It's being alone for the first time in my adult life. Supporting myself. Losing my house (because I sure can't pay the mortgage); though I'm mostly antsy to leave, this city (my support system is all elsewhere, mostly in famously expensive SF); the entire life we've built together for over a decade. And most of all, it's me not being with him – my partner, my best friend.
What complicates things further, we both want kids, and time might be limited for him for medical reasons. He is pushing me to make a decision. He is against a trial separation. It's either in, or out, and it's all on me, he says.
When I am completely honest with myself, I know I'm already too far out. I've confronted too much, had too many realizations I can't turn back or swallow back down. I'm not going to miraculously become sexually attracted to him. There's no way I'll be able to continue into our future – even our dreamy hetero rich-guy future – without resentment building and building, without regrets, without bitterness. And he deserves to be set free, because this limbo sucks for him too. And if I can be strong enough while we're in this amicable place, that's much better than any further down the line.
But I am so, so scared. I'm scared of pain, of loneliness, and especially of regret. Has anyone been through something similar? How do you know you're making the right decision? Other than telling him (oh god), what should my first steps be? We are in CA. I'll save some of the logistical stuff for future questions, because I'm sure I'll have plenty. Last of all, on those evenings I'm weakened by terror and anxiety, and everything in me longs to reach for him, how do I not?
I've done my best to pare this down, so let me know if you need any more information. Feel free to email me at morninganyway(at)gmail(dot)com. Thank you so much.
(And please, do be kind.)
You can't fake attraction, at least not forever. It will make you increasingly miserable if you try.
posted by Dansaman at 10:20 AM on November 1, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Dansaman at 10:20 AM on November 1, 2013 [1 favorite]
How have things been going in couples counseling?
posted by oceanjesse at 10:21 AM on November 1, 2013
posted by oceanjesse at 10:21 AM on November 1, 2013
I'm sorry you're going through this! You sound in pain, but you also sound mature, confident and kind. You can do this.
Take everything one step at a time. I think you should start by realising that the short time pain that will inevitably come with any situation like this, will be outweighed by many MANY years of happiness that is attainable in the long term.
You won't find happiness here because you're living a lie, and trust me, it will eventually be too much to bear for you.
You are doing the right thing. Just take it slowly and talk to your husband. Not only do YOU deserve a life with someone you love, but so does he.
Good luck!
posted by JenThePro at 10:22 AM on November 1, 2013 [1 favorite]
Take everything one step at a time. I think you should start by realising that the short time pain that will inevitably come with any situation like this, will be outweighed by many MANY years of happiness that is attainable in the long term.
You won't find happiness here because you're living a lie, and trust me, it will eventually be too much to bear for you.
You are doing the right thing. Just take it slowly and talk to your husband. Not only do YOU deserve a life with someone you love, but so does he.
Good luck!
posted by JenThePro at 10:22 AM on November 1, 2013 [1 favorite]
Speaking as a currently-pregnant lady, please do not introduce pregnancy and kids into this mix. All pregnancies are different, but mine has made me needier, more dependent, more emotionally volatile, more honest. It's brought any relationship problems to the surface in sharp contrast and while I suspect my marriage will be better and stronger for it, as we've worked through these problems it's also made us more deeply entwined. I can't imagine that further entanglement of this sort would do anything but make decision making harder as you move forward and decide what to do.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 10:23 AM on November 1, 2013 [19 favorites]
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 10:23 AM on November 1, 2013 [19 favorites]
I'm scared of pain, of loneliness, and especially of regret.
They're all three unavoidable. You're in a unique position that you see it coming and will make a conscious choice as to which pain/loneliness/regret you'll experience, but that doesn't mean that not making the choice will allow you to avoid them.
Has anyone been through something similar?
Everyone has, or will.
posted by headnsouth at 10:24 AM on November 1, 2013 [6 favorites]
They're all three unavoidable. You're in a unique position that you see it coming and will make a conscious choice as to which pain/loneliness/regret you'll experience, but that doesn't mean that not making the choice will allow you to avoid them.
Has anyone been through something similar?
Everyone has, or will.
posted by headnsouth at 10:24 AM on November 1, 2013 [6 favorites]
One, huge hugs. this sounds like an incredibly difficult situation.
As for what you should do, I think you know that things can't continue the way they have been. You're unhappy, he's unhappy, this isn't a satisfying or healthy relationship for EITHER of you. You ask how you know when you're making the right decision... well, you can't ever really know for 100% positive sure. No one is 100% positive they choices they make for their lives are absolutely the right ones. I do think that ending your marriage is likely the right one in this situation. You can't keep doing this to yourself or to your husband.
In regards to the scariness of having a marriage end, I always reference my husband's first marriage. He was MISERABLE, as was she. She was verbally and emotionally abusive towards him, and he dreaded weekends and holidays because he would have to spend extended periods of time with her. He wanted out, but they had a child together (a son he loves more than air) so that made leaving even more scary. He wanted out the realities and consequences of getting out, not knowing what would happen, kept him from pulling the trigger. Then one day SHE declared that SHE wanted a divorce. He was upset for about 36 minutes but then a huge weight lifted off of him. Was it a simple process? no, of course not. It was difficult and expensive and stressful to get the divorce resolved, but it was WORTH IT. Everyone facing a divorce is scared because it is scary. But that fear will pass. Your misery within the relationship will NOT pass.
Before you do anything, though, I would speak to a lawyer so that you know what you are and are not entitled to and can and should happen if the marriage ends.
posted by PuppetMcSockerson at 10:24 AM on November 1, 2013 [3 favorites]
As for what you should do, I think you know that things can't continue the way they have been. You're unhappy, he's unhappy, this isn't a satisfying or healthy relationship for EITHER of you. You ask how you know when you're making the right decision... well, you can't ever really know for 100% positive sure. No one is 100% positive they choices they make for their lives are absolutely the right ones. I do think that ending your marriage is likely the right one in this situation. You can't keep doing this to yourself or to your husband.
In regards to the scariness of having a marriage end, I always reference my husband's first marriage. He was MISERABLE, as was she. She was verbally and emotionally abusive towards him, and he dreaded weekends and holidays because he would have to spend extended periods of time with her. He wanted out, but they had a child together (a son he loves more than air) so that made leaving even more scary. He wanted out the realities and consequences of getting out, not knowing what would happen, kept him from pulling the trigger. Then one day SHE declared that SHE wanted a divorce. He was upset for about 36 minutes but then a huge weight lifted off of him. Was it a simple process? no, of course not. It was difficult and expensive and stressful to get the divorce resolved, but it was WORTH IT. Everyone facing a divorce is scared because it is scary. But that fear will pass. Your misery within the relationship will NOT pass.
Before you do anything, though, I would speak to a lawyer so that you know what you are and are not entitled to and can and should happen if the marriage ends.
posted by PuppetMcSockerson at 10:24 AM on November 1, 2013 [3 favorites]
It's either in, or out, and it's all on me, he says.
Sounds reasonable given the situation. You don't have a path you want to follow to keep your marriage viable, so cutting both your losses and leaving is the kindest thing to do. It's an ugly and messy situation and I think your best route out of it is to just be on your best behaviour, which means no more affairs, and making the scary decision to move forward with moving out.
Definitely don't consider staying in a non-functional relationship to have children -- not clear if that's on the table here but it sounds like it is for your partner? Terrible idea. Divorce is a hassle, but divorce with children has the 'hassle' aspect multiplied and it is also a tragedy. As is your situation doesn't have innocent bystanders; that's a good thing, move on before the 'we both want kids' thinking goes any further.
Your first steps should involve professionals -- talk to your counselor about moving forward with breaking up, and see a family law attorney to get an idea of what you and your husband can expect. You will probably feel a lot better once things have been clarified a bit there.
posted by kmennie at 10:26 AM on November 1, 2013 [6 favorites]
Sounds reasonable given the situation. You don't have a path you want to follow to keep your marriage viable, so cutting both your losses and leaving is the kindest thing to do. It's an ugly and messy situation and I think your best route out of it is to just be on your best behaviour, which means no more affairs, and making the scary decision to move forward with moving out.
Definitely don't consider staying in a non-functional relationship to have children -- not clear if that's on the table here but it sounds like it is for your partner? Terrible idea. Divorce is a hassle, but divorce with children has the 'hassle' aspect multiplied and it is also a tragedy. As is your situation doesn't have innocent bystanders; that's a good thing, move on before the 'we both want kids' thinking goes any further.
Your first steps should involve professionals -- talk to your counselor about moving forward with breaking up, and see a family law attorney to get an idea of what you and your husband can expect. You will probably feel a lot better once things have been clarified a bit there.
posted by kmennie at 10:26 AM on November 1, 2013 [6 favorites]
I think you might find it comforting to read some anthologies of coming out stories. Stories like yours are very very common. You're definitely not alone. From Wedded Wife to Lesbian Life: Stories of Transformation is a classic. Also, check your MeMail.
posted by Wordwoman at 10:27 AM on November 1, 2013
posted by Wordwoman at 10:27 AM on November 1, 2013
Best answer: We are constantly bombarded (usually by 'inspirational text on sunset pictures' on social media) by this idea that regret is it some insurmountable impasse we cannot overcome.
The truth is that it's something you're going to experience in the moments you feel most overwhelmed and at your weakest. You will be able to deal with this. You will become callused against this grief. You will find your stride in your new life, and you will be okay.
This too shall pass.
posted by rideunicorns at 10:44 AM on November 1, 2013 [9 favorites]
The truth is that it's something you're going to experience in the moments you feel most overwhelmed and at your weakest. You will be able to deal with this. You will become callused against this grief. You will find your stride in your new life, and you will be okay.
This too shall pass.
posted by rideunicorns at 10:44 AM on November 1, 2013 [9 favorites]
Best answer: "But the reality of leaving him terrifies me. It's being alone for the first time in my adult life."
You've got that exactly backwards, actually. You are alone right now, in that you are not able to be your authentic self in this marriage and it is eating you up inside. "Continuing to have sex with him, even if it makes me turn my face and cry..." Wow. If that sentiment doesn't capture the very definition of the word "alone" then I don't know what the hell does.
You now have all of the info you need, and you know exactly what you need to do.
But in case you still need convincing, I give you Dear Sugar.
What complicates things further, we both want kids, and time might be limited for him for medical reasons.
He can go freeze his sperm. You're making excuses to avoid doing what you need to do. Time to let go. Leaving him is absolutely the next right choice for you.
posted by hush at 10:45 AM on November 1, 2013 [13 favorites]
You've got that exactly backwards, actually. You are alone right now, in that you are not able to be your authentic self in this marriage and it is eating you up inside. "Continuing to have sex with him, even if it makes me turn my face and cry..." Wow. If that sentiment doesn't capture the very definition of the word "alone" then I don't know what the hell does.
You now have all of the info you need, and you know exactly what you need to do.
But in case you still need convincing, I give you Dear Sugar.
What complicates things further, we both want kids, and time might be limited for him for medical reasons.
He can go freeze his sperm. You're making excuses to avoid doing what you need to do. Time to let go. Leaving him is absolutely the next right choice for you.
posted by hush at 10:45 AM on November 1, 2013 [13 favorites]
I have a friend who went through something similiar; she ended her marriage of 7 years, kids, financial support, the whole shebang because she realized she was attracted to women. I'll link her this thread and see if she'll send something to your throw-away address.
posted by Autumn at 10:45 AM on November 1, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by Autumn at 10:45 AM on November 1, 2013 [2 favorites]
Here's a more updated book like the one Wordwoman mentions: Dear John, I Love Jane.
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:46 AM on November 1, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:46 AM on November 1, 2013 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Continuing to have sex with him, even if it makes me turn my face and cry
Even without the LGBT issues, without the fear of moving, without all of the other things you bring up in this and your previous posts, this alone tells me you need to get out. It is so completely beyond acceptable for your husband to be pressuring you into sex that you are so uncomfortable with that it MAKES YOU CRY because you don't want it. I am so sorry your husband has done this to you. That is not the behavior of an " incredible man who loves [you] so much." This is someone who does not care, on some fundamental level, about putting you through trauma if that means fulfilling his own desires.
San Francisco is insanely expensive but the surrounding areas (Oakland, anywhere accesible by BART) are much more affordable. Good luck and godspeed.
posted by moonlight on vermont at 10:46 AM on November 1, 2013 [6 favorites]
Even without the LGBT issues, without the fear of moving, without all of the other things you bring up in this and your previous posts, this alone tells me you need to get out. It is so completely beyond acceptable for your husband to be pressuring you into sex that you are so uncomfortable with that it MAKES YOU CRY because you don't want it. I am so sorry your husband has done this to you. That is not the behavior of an " incredible man who loves [you] so much." This is someone who does not care, on some fundamental level, about putting you through trauma if that means fulfilling his own desires.
San Francisco is insanely expensive but the surrounding areas (Oakland, anywhere accesible by BART) are much more affordable. Good luck and godspeed.
posted by moonlight on vermont at 10:46 AM on November 1, 2013 [6 favorites]
Response by poster: A couple answers/clarifications:
-- Kids are definitely, 100% off the table right now, promise. At least for me. Even if we stuck it out, I'm in a place where I'd want to wait years.
-- Couples therapy has felt entirely misdirected. Division of chores. Communication issues. But every time I tried to steer the conversation to the Big Issues, I felt judged by the counselor (you want to live other places? So, everyone wants to travel!) and that my sexuality issues were trivialized. My individual therapist agrees, and was angry about it. It's taken months of work with her to accept that, while my husband isn't doing anything wrong by living his ideal life, it doesn't mean it's my ideal life. And that's okay. Couples therapy made all those judgy, heteronormative voices start roaring in my ears again. I left each session feeling like a shit person and wanting to throw up.
Thank you for your answers so far. I'm already tearing up, but in a good way I think.
posted by morninganyway at 10:47 AM on November 1, 2013 [2 favorites]
-- Kids are definitely, 100% off the table right now, promise. At least for me. Even if we stuck it out, I'm in a place where I'd want to wait years.
-- Couples therapy has felt entirely misdirected. Division of chores. Communication issues. But every time I tried to steer the conversation to the Big Issues, I felt judged by the counselor (you want to live other places? So, everyone wants to travel!) and that my sexuality issues were trivialized. My individual therapist agrees, and was angry about it. It's taken months of work with her to accept that, while my husband isn't doing anything wrong by living his ideal life, it doesn't mean it's my ideal life. And that's okay. Couples therapy made all those judgy, heteronormative voices start roaring in my ears again. I left each session feeling like a shit person and wanting to throw up.
Thank you for your answers so far. I'm already tearing up, but in a good way I think.
posted by morninganyway at 10:47 AM on November 1, 2013 [2 favorites]
Best answer: Right now, I am mostly attracted to women. But I'm not entirely unattracted to men; if I were it'd be so much simpler. I wouldn't feel like there's something wrong with me – why can't I desire this incredible man who loves me so much?
Even if you were 100% hetero, you might still be having these feelings. It happens every day, the married-young couple who gradually grows apart. You do not need to feel like it's your fault you're not longer attracted to your husband, just because you have the capacity to be attracted to people of his gender.
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:48 AM on November 1, 2013 [3 favorites]
Even if you were 100% hetero, you might still be having these feelings. It happens every day, the married-young couple who gradually grows apart. You do not need to feel like it's your fault you're not longer attracted to your husband, just because you have the capacity to be attracted to people of his gender.
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:48 AM on November 1, 2013 [3 favorites]
Best answer: The only thing scarier than actually doing something is worrying about how scary it will be. Make the change, and all you'll have to deal with is the reality of the change. Don't, and you'll continue to be burdened with your current reality and your fear about the alternative reality and your stress over making the decision. Make the change.
posted by davejay at 10:48 AM on November 1, 2013 [5 favorites]
posted by davejay at 10:48 AM on November 1, 2013 [5 favorites]
Also: if you live in or around NYC, Identity House may be for you. "Identity House is a non-profit, all-volunteer organization that provides Peer Counseling, Group Support, and Therapy Referrals to members of the LGBTQ community who are struggling with issues of sexuality, alienation, relationships, and family." You are definitely not alone in your current circumstances.
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:51 AM on November 1, 2013
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:51 AM on November 1, 2013
Best answer: Go talk to a lawyer.
Knowing the mechanics of your next steps will help.
If you think you will handle this without legal representation, because you feel guilty - please please just talk to a few lawyers anyway.
I can't tell you what a BAD IDEA it is for you to avoid interviewing potential attornies or getting solid legal advice at this stage in the situation.
Either way, I believe getting a handle on the legal aspect of things will be the game changer you are seeking.
Good luck.
posted by jbenben at 10:53 AM on November 1, 2013 [8 favorites]
Knowing the mechanics of your next steps will help.
If you think you will handle this without legal representation, because you feel guilty - please please just talk to a few lawyers anyway.
I can't tell you what a BAD IDEA it is for you to avoid interviewing potential attornies or getting solid legal advice at this stage in the situation.
Either way, I believe getting a handle on the legal aspect of things will be the game changer you are seeking.
Good luck.
posted by jbenben at 10:53 AM on November 1, 2013 [8 favorites]
I don't know quite how to address this, but I gotta say it.
You cry during or after sex. Your husband would have to be deaf, dumb, and blind to have not noticed your distress.
It's not loving of him to force you.
Has anyone else pointed this out? Does anyone besides us Internet strangers know?
posted by jbenben at 11:02 AM on November 1, 2013 [16 favorites]
You cry during or after sex. Your husband would have to be deaf, dumb, and blind to have not noticed your distress.
It's not loving of him to force you.
Has anyone else pointed this out? Does anyone besides us Internet strangers know?
posted by jbenben at 11:02 AM on November 1, 2013 [16 favorites]
It sounds like you had a really awful couples therapist. Rather than writing off couples therapy as a whole, I would look in to finding a new (better) couples therapist.
posted by PuppetMcSockerson at 11:10 AM on November 1, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by PuppetMcSockerson at 11:10 AM on November 1, 2013 [4 favorites]
Best answer: I just want to add that I had a friend that after she had a baby didn't have sex with her husband for two years+. She was struggling with some body image and libido problems and she was feeling pressured and uncomfortable, not his fault because obviously it's a reasonable expectation to have sex with your wife, but she couldn't get there right now..
and he stopped asking, pushing, requesting, anything. he just waited for her to be ready and was loving and supportive of her needs, for a very long time. they found other ways to display intimacy and love to each other while they worked on it, with some help from counseling.
now that is a husband who loves you and is dreamy.
your husband who is making you feel so bad that you're both having un-willing sex and crying during or after is not being an amazing husband, he's being a jerk.
it sounds like it's on you to make all the compromises in this relationship because of his well-paying job. that's not really a relationship of equals, and not only that but it sounds like he's pushing all the blame onto you for any problems you're having, telling you it's all or nothing, it's all your decision, etc.
I believe you when you say he's great and that you love him and he's your best friend, but I think there's a couple MAJOR instances here where he's not acting like a partner, but like your superior.
posted by euphoria066 at 11:19 AM on November 1, 2013 [6 favorites]
and he stopped asking, pushing, requesting, anything. he just waited for her to be ready and was loving and supportive of her needs, for a very long time. they found other ways to display intimacy and love to each other while they worked on it, with some help from counseling.
now that is a husband who loves you and is dreamy.
your husband who is making you feel so bad that you're both having un-willing sex and crying during or after is not being an amazing husband, he's being a jerk.
it sounds like it's on you to make all the compromises in this relationship because of his well-paying job. that's not really a relationship of equals, and not only that but it sounds like he's pushing all the blame onto you for any problems you're having, telling you it's all or nothing, it's all your decision, etc.
I believe you when you say he's great and that you love him and he's your best friend, but I think there's a couple MAJOR instances here where he's not acting like a partner, but like your superior.
posted by euphoria066 at 11:19 AM on November 1, 2013 [6 favorites]
Response by poster: You cry during or after sex.
I'm very careful not to let him see :(
But you're right that it's obvious I'm not enjoying it, not like a partner should, and that we're both aware I'm only throwing him a bone (pun not intended). It's just been so many years of this dynamic, that I've become a master at tolerating it. Especially when the alternative -- me saying that's enough, never again -- means the avalanche begins, in our case. We'll be through. And I am so scared.
You're also right about the lawyer; it's time. But an alien planet. Do I just, like, Google for a high Yelp rating and a free/low-cost consultation or something?
(Thank you. Let me know if I am thread-sitting too much.)
posted by morninganyway at 11:34 AM on November 1, 2013
I'm very careful not to let him see :(
But you're right that it's obvious I'm not enjoying it, not like a partner should, and that we're both aware I'm only throwing him a bone (pun not intended). It's just been so many years of this dynamic, that I've become a master at tolerating it. Especially when the alternative -- me saying that's enough, never again -- means the avalanche begins, in our case. We'll be through. And I am so scared.
You're also right about the lawyer; it's time. But an alien planet. Do I just, like, Google for a high Yelp rating and a free/low-cost consultation or something?
(Thank you. Let me know if I am thread-sitting too much.)
posted by morninganyway at 11:34 AM on November 1, 2013
Best answer: You've already gotten a lot of great advice, so I won't add to that, except to say that you have the capacity for so much happiness. Life has the capacity for happiness. It will probably really suck for a while to get there, but once you do, you will probably be really amazed that things can be so good.
posted by sabotagerabbit at 11:42 AM on November 1, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by sabotagerabbit at 11:42 AM on November 1, 2013 [1 favorite]
I feel for you. I left my marriage (together since 16) after a similar amount of time. It was hard. It got better. You don't know for sure it'll get better, but you can hope.
This song helped me a lot.
I can say I'll hope it will be worth what I give up
If I could stand up mean for the things that I believe
Good luck. You can do this.
posted by corvine at 11:45 AM on November 1, 2013
This song helped me a lot.
I can say I'll hope it will be worth what I give up
If I could stand up mean for the things that I believe
Good luck. You can do this.
posted by corvine at 11:45 AM on November 1, 2013
I'm very careful not to let him see :(
That is a tragic statement right there. Time for some changes.
posted by oceanjesse at 11:46 AM on November 1, 2013 [3 favorites]
That is a tragic statement right there. Time for some changes.
posted by oceanjesse at 11:46 AM on November 1, 2013 [3 favorites]
Ask around in your circles for recommendations for family law attorneys. They come in multiple flavours, so consider interviewing a few -- there are mediation-oriented friendly ones and total jerks you would want to sic on your worst enemy but otherwise never interact with, and lots in-between. Go and have a quiet consultation and then devise your exit strategy. It is in your best interests to have your spouse lawyer up too, so make clear when having a talk about The End that you want to give him time to find an attorney so he can get a fair shake (and so you get to deal with what's hopefully a rational third party instead of an enraged ex).
Look for somebody you can work with pleasantly and don't mind divulging highly personal what-not to. Here, every lawyer around will give a free initial consultation, but if that's not the standard in your area it would certainly be worth spending a bit to interview a few. You want somebody whose views on how things should go are compatible with yours; the mediator vs bulldog part is important.
posted by kmennie at 11:49 AM on November 1, 2013
Look for somebody you can work with pleasantly and don't mind divulging highly personal what-not to. Here, every lawyer around will give a free initial consultation, but if that's not the standard in your area it would certainly be worth spending a bit to interview a few. You want somebody whose views on how things should go are compatible with yours; the mediator vs bulldog part is important.
posted by kmennie at 11:49 AM on November 1, 2013
Best answer: I think that, as rideunicorns said, it helps to just accept whatever bad feelings come and not read into or catastrophize them. That is, it will be easy, if you leave, to find yourself incredibly lonely, guilty, etc. and consequently to start thinking the following: that you made a bad decision, that you'll never be happy again, that you screwed everything up, that a normal person in a normal life would never feel this bad, etc. But what helps is to accept that whatever terrible feeling you're stuck in at the moment is entirely predictable* and that it's okay: it's a natural reaction and not a sign that you should have done or should be doing anything differently. You tell yourself you're going through one of a number of prophesied Difficult Periods, that you're in good company, and that even if you can't quite feel it at the moment, there is a reason you did what you did and it was a good one.
Occasionally this approach makes me react to my own miserable feelings with more irritation than anything else: oh, here we go again, the Dreaded Bout of Loneliness. I find that reaction makes things easier for me than the usual catastrophic trains of thought.
* I hereby predict it.
Best of luck with whatever you do.
posted by egg drop at 12:06 PM on November 1, 2013 [4 favorites]
Occasionally this approach makes me react to my own miserable feelings with more irritation than anything else: oh, here we go again, the Dreaded Bout of Loneliness. I find that reaction makes things easier for me than the usual catastrophic trains of thought.
* I hereby predict it.
Best of luck with whatever you do.
posted by egg drop at 12:06 PM on November 1, 2013 [4 favorites]
Best answer: You know, the best place for you right now is San Francisco. You can explore your complex sexuality in one of the nicest places to do so in the country. You have friends and family there, and that's great too.
You can get a job to start out, I hate to say it, but your husband may be required to pay spousal support, so at least explore that with a divorce lawyer.
Start making plans to leave now. If you have skills, dust them off so you can put them to work. If you need to get new skills, source places where you can do that.
You may regret leaving your marriage, I suspect that there will be times when that's the case. But if you're not living your true, authentic life, all the money and history with your husband doesn't really amount to anything.
Honor the excellent relationship you've had in the past by leaving before you start to hate each other.
I promise, it will suck, you'll be lonely, you'll cry, you'll second and third guess your decision, but I also promise that you'll laugh, make new friends, meet new lovers and that you'll truly understand what you want.
Marriage is a two-way street and if one of the partners is unhappy, then the marriage is failing.
You tried, and you still want something else. Go ahead, step out on faith.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 12:07 PM on November 1, 2013 [3 favorites]
You can get a job to start out, I hate to say it, but your husband may be required to pay spousal support, so at least explore that with a divorce lawyer.
Start making plans to leave now. If you have skills, dust them off so you can put them to work. If you need to get new skills, source places where you can do that.
You may regret leaving your marriage, I suspect that there will be times when that's the case. But if you're not living your true, authentic life, all the money and history with your husband doesn't really amount to anything.
Honor the excellent relationship you've had in the past by leaving before you start to hate each other.
I promise, it will suck, you'll be lonely, you'll cry, you'll second and third guess your decision, but I also promise that you'll laugh, make new friends, meet new lovers and that you'll truly understand what you want.
Marriage is a two-way street and if one of the partners is unhappy, then the marriage is failing.
You tried, and you still want something else. Go ahead, step out on faith.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 12:07 PM on November 1, 2013 [3 favorites]
I'm sorry you're going through this. You sound like you are asking for permission to leave your husband, but as a fervent fan of lifelong monogamous relationships (whether they be heterosexual or homosexual), I'd like to offer a different perspective.
You made a vow to your husband to stay wedded. He hasn't done any of the three A's that warrant separation: adultery, abuse, addiction. You should consider doing some more reading on how you can help yourself stay in this relationship healthily, rather than break your vows. You sound very emotional, and emotions can often lead us astray. Here are some relationship books that I've found helpful in getting some distance from my emotions and learning to treasure a relationship as it really is:
Passionate Marriage
If the Buddha Married
How to be an Adult in Relationships
These are some I haven't read, but intend to:
Mating in Captivity: Unlocking Erotic Intelligence
Conscious Loving: The Journey to Co-Committment
What Makes Love Last? How to Build Trust and Avoid Betrayal
Intimacy and Desire
The Art of Loving
Will your husband allow you to experience women at all, even within your relationship, with him participating or nearby?
I urge you to consider your vows to your husband. We're all attracted to other people at some point and time, I'm not sure how much their gender matters after you've made your decision. Marriage, real marriage, offers you the chance to grow as a person, and completely forget yourself and create a strong and pure bond of love and to grow in intimacy with the Divine. It sounds like you have someone to do that with - someone with good traits who is bonded with you.
I notice that your question doesn't seem to discuss how to resolve the sexual issues in your relationship given your evolving sexuality (i.e., could you watch ladies' porn? bonding activities? Drugs?) but rather how you can handle leaving this person. It sounds like you've made up your mind. The question you linked is only from June, not even six months ago. It doesn't sound like it's been even a year since you had your tryst with a woman. Allow yourself some more time, don't get swallowed up in emotion, and do some more reading and contemplating before you make such an irreversible decision and deeply wound someone you love.
posted by Unangenehm at 12:09 PM on November 1, 2013 [4 favorites]
You made a vow to your husband to stay wedded. He hasn't done any of the three A's that warrant separation: adultery, abuse, addiction. You should consider doing some more reading on how you can help yourself stay in this relationship healthily, rather than break your vows. You sound very emotional, and emotions can often lead us astray. Here are some relationship books that I've found helpful in getting some distance from my emotions and learning to treasure a relationship as it really is:
Passionate Marriage
If the Buddha Married
How to be an Adult in Relationships
These are some I haven't read, but intend to:
Mating in Captivity: Unlocking Erotic Intelligence
Conscious Loving: The Journey to Co-Committment
What Makes Love Last? How to Build Trust and Avoid Betrayal
Intimacy and Desire
The Art of Loving
Will your husband allow you to experience women at all, even within your relationship, with him participating or nearby?
I urge you to consider your vows to your husband. We're all attracted to other people at some point and time, I'm not sure how much their gender matters after you've made your decision. Marriage, real marriage, offers you the chance to grow as a person, and completely forget yourself and create a strong and pure bond of love and to grow in intimacy with the Divine. It sounds like you have someone to do that with - someone with good traits who is bonded with you.
I notice that your question doesn't seem to discuss how to resolve the sexual issues in your relationship given your evolving sexuality (i.e., could you watch ladies' porn? bonding activities? Drugs?) but rather how you can handle leaving this person. It sounds like you've made up your mind. The question you linked is only from June, not even six months ago. It doesn't sound like it's been even a year since you had your tryst with a woman. Allow yourself some more time, don't get swallowed up in emotion, and do some more reading and contemplating before you make such an irreversible decision and deeply wound someone you love.
posted by Unangenehm at 12:09 PM on November 1, 2013 [4 favorites]
Best answer: Yes, google, yelp.
The thing is, you are JOB INTERVIEWING these folks. You don't just pick a lawyer for a divorce out of the phone book. You have sit down meetings with a number of lawyers until you find someone knowledgeable and professional that you "click" with.
The meetings are usually free.
Then you sign a contract (retainer) and pay the retainer fee.
Where that money comes from is something you discuss in the initial meetings.
BTW. The issue isn't your sexual preference regarding gender. The issue is that you and your husband have grown apart. It's common. Really common.
----
And FWIW, 18 year old me thought putting up with sex when I did not want to for the sake of my boyfriend was just something you do.
43 year old happily remarried me sees it as a type of sexual violation.
Even if you don't see it that way, I offer up to you that years of putting up with it has undermined your sense of self and safety in a very very profound way.
I hope you find an awesome and supportive lawyer, because at this point, you deserve someone who is 1000% on your side.
posted by jbenben at 12:14 PM on November 1, 2013 [6 favorites]
The thing is, you are JOB INTERVIEWING these folks. You don't just pick a lawyer for a divorce out of the phone book. You have sit down meetings with a number of lawyers until you find someone knowledgeable and professional that you "click" with.
The meetings are usually free.
Then you sign a contract (retainer) and pay the retainer fee.
Where that money comes from is something you discuss in the initial meetings.
BTW. The issue isn't your sexual preference regarding gender. The issue is that you and your husband have grown apart. It's common. Really common.
----
And FWIW, 18 year old me thought putting up with sex when I did not want to for the sake of my boyfriend was just something you do.
43 year old happily remarried me sees it as a type of sexual violation.
Even if you don't see it that way, I offer up to you that years of putting up with it has undermined your sense of self and safety in a very very profound way.
I hope you find an awesome and supportive lawyer, because at this point, you deserve someone who is 1000% on your side.
posted by jbenben at 12:14 PM on November 1, 2013 [6 favorites]
Are either of you open to an open, or monagamish, marriage? You say you've been going to lesbian bars and a LGBT center. Is this with your husband's knowledge, or is just something you've done on your own to explore the community? I'm curious if other arrangements within your marriage have been considered. I'm not saying they should be considered, but I'm wondering how the conversations about sex and your desires have played out with your husband.
posted by megancita at 12:21 PM on November 1, 2013
posted by megancita at 12:21 PM on November 1, 2013
Response by poster: Will your husband allow you to experience women at all, even within your relationship, with him participating or nearby?
Are either of you open to an open, or monagamish, marriage?
I thought that might come up. I've thought about it for years, and it's recently been something he's put forth as a compromise. ("Maybe we can find you a girlfriend!") My realizations: I don't think I have the capacity to be polyamorous. I feel actual revulsion at the idea of having a threesome with him, or with him watching. He's tried to watch lesbian porn with me and it's a total turn-off. (While I have no problem with it on my own.) The idea of like, prowling for girls while I'm in a hetero marriage disturbs me in multiple ways, including politically. Even if I had good sex elsewhere, I'd still have to come home and have sex with him. And lastly, there are other identity factors with being queer versus hetero; it's not only about sex. Even if it was a violation of my vows, the incident with the girl has felt like the only sexual experience I've had for me since... as long as I can remember.
(ETA: The lesbian bars, he knew about (I was with friends each time) and felt a little insecure about. The Center was in secret.)
My reaction to Unangenehm's answer (which I respect) makes me realize I'm more resolute than I thought. Because I have tried, you guys. So hard.
Thank you all again. I'm so glad I finally asked this.
posted by morninganyway at 12:38 PM on November 1, 2013 [11 favorites]
Are either of you open to an open, or monagamish, marriage?
I thought that might come up. I've thought about it for years, and it's recently been something he's put forth as a compromise. ("Maybe we can find you a girlfriend!") My realizations: I don't think I have the capacity to be polyamorous. I feel actual revulsion at the idea of having a threesome with him, or with him watching. He's tried to watch lesbian porn with me and it's a total turn-off. (While I have no problem with it on my own.) The idea of like, prowling for girls while I'm in a hetero marriage disturbs me in multiple ways, including politically. Even if I had good sex elsewhere, I'd still have to come home and have sex with him. And lastly, there are other identity factors with being queer versus hetero; it's not only about sex. Even if it was a violation of my vows, the incident with the girl has felt like the only sexual experience I've had for me since... as long as I can remember.
(ETA: The lesbian bars, he knew about (I was with friends each time) and felt a little insecure about. The Center was in secret.)
My reaction to Unangenehm's answer (which I respect) makes me realize I'm more resolute than I thought. Because I have tried, you guys. So hard.
Thank you all again. I'm so glad I finally asked this.
posted by morninganyway at 12:38 PM on November 1, 2013 [11 favorites]
I think you're making the right choice. I do, however, think you should give Mating in Captivity a read anyway. Not because I think it will help you to stay, but because it might make you feel better about what's happened. Your husband should actually read it too, but he didn't come here asking for advice.
posted by Ragged Richard at 12:49 PM on November 1, 2013
posted by Ragged Richard at 12:49 PM on November 1, 2013
These two people have grown apart, and deep mature communication is difficult or impossible for them.
Suggesting non-monagamy is a bad bad idea in a situation like this.
posted by jbenben at 12:58 PM on November 1, 2013 [10 favorites]
Suggesting non-monagamy is a bad bad idea in a situation like this.
posted by jbenben at 12:58 PM on November 1, 2013 [10 favorites]
It sounds like you know what you need to do. The sooner you two end this marriage the better.
posted by BobbyDigital at 2:24 PM on November 1, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by BobbyDigital at 2:24 PM on November 1, 2013 [1 favorite]
There is absolutely nothing in anything you've written that even remotely makes me think you should stay with your husband. Nothing. Seriously I won't even have a coffee date with someone if the thought of being sexual with them makes me want to cry. That's bonkers!
A few years down the road, when all the dust has settled, you will think it's bonkers too.
Best of luck to you.
posted by Dynex at 3:01 PM on November 1, 2013 [2 favorites]
A few years down the road, when all the dust has settled, you will think it's bonkers too.
Best of luck to you.
posted by Dynex at 3:01 PM on November 1, 2013 [2 favorites]
I am leaning very strongly towards this marriage is over. Sorry. You are reluctant to end it, because you have never been on your own, as an adult. This is normal. This sort of set up has a LOT of things that need to be resolved. Where to live, division of assets, future support... most of the first few steps are at a lawyers office.
"And he deserves to be set free" You said it. This is not 'we can work this out.' This is, "I am done. I am hesitant to pull the trigger" I understand this. This is normal. He can kinda make you out to be the Bad Guy here (Though.... having to hide crying during sex? NOT COOL)
Regret and fear and uncertainty are all there and will be for a long time. They may not fade for a while; however, this does not mean ending the relationship is wrong. I suspect the sooner you end it, the better for you both. But, do run it by your therapist and lawyer. And then do it.
And be nice to yourself. You know this isn't easy; but it is RIGHT. You gave him 10 years. He did ok but some things just can't be fixed.
posted by Jacen at 5:01 PM on November 1, 2013
"And he deserves to be set free" You said it. This is not 'we can work this out.' This is, "I am done. I am hesitant to pull the trigger" I understand this. This is normal. He can kinda make you out to be the Bad Guy here (Though.... having to hide crying during sex? NOT COOL)
Regret and fear and uncertainty are all there and will be for a long time. They may not fade for a while; however, this does not mean ending the relationship is wrong. I suspect the sooner you end it, the better for you both. But, do run it by your therapist and lawyer. And then do it.
And be nice to yourself. You know this isn't easy; but it is RIGHT. You gave him 10 years. He did ok but some things just can't be fixed.
posted by Jacen at 5:01 PM on November 1, 2013
Best answer: You're going to get through this.
You're going to be happy.
I promise.
Pain is inevitable, yes, in your particular circumstances and in life in general. But pain won't last forever.
While you're working your way through this, please take extra good care of yourself. Could you add something into your routine that helps you feel centered and nourished? If it were me, I'd sign up for a regular yoga class. Maybe you'd like that, or some other form of exercise, or going to a religious service, or anything else that helps you feel connected and helps you take care of your body and spirit. You're going to need to be your own best friend here. When you get to the other side of all this, you are going to know that you can rely on yourself. But it's already true. You are already everything you need.
You're going to be okay.
posted by zahava at 6:19 PM on November 1, 2013 [3 favorites]
You're going to be happy.
I promise.
Pain is inevitable, yes, in your particular circumstances and in life in general. But pain won't last forever.
While you're working your way through this, please take extra good care of yourself. Could you add something into your routine that helps you feel centered and nourished? If it were me, I'd sign up for a regular yoga class. Maybe you'd like that, or some other form of exercise, or going to a religious service, or anything else that helps you feel connected and helps you take care of your body and spirit. You're going to need to be your own best friend here. When you get to the other side of all this, you are going to know that you can rely on yourself. But it's already true. You are already everything you need.
You're going to be okay.
posted by zahava at 6:19 PM on November 1, 2013 [3 favorites]
If you've never been through a major breakup before, here is a quick timeline of how breakups are, at least for me. Other people may have different emotional patterns, but here's one possibility.
In my experience, it takes maybe a year after the decision is almost made to actually "break up," e.g. to have long discussions about the whole thing, wake up every day with your stomach plummeting sickly when you remember what's going on, decide who will move out, divide possessions, spend long hours writing in your journal and crying, wonder whether or not to call or email him, and slowly extricate yourselves from one another's lives. That year will suck.
I suspect it might be more than a year due to being married, because of the legal aspect and because the signing of the papers will make it fresh again. Moving and finding a new job direction will also add to the time, since you'll be going through so many changes, though it's great that a number of your friends live in San Francisco.
Somewhere in there may come the phase of "I'm single, I should be dating," where dating (or the promise of it) is used to distract yourself from the pain and loss you're sick of feeling. That phase involves surreal nights at totally unsuitable dance clubs, too much time spent on creating an online dating profile, awkward dates, one night stands, and other things that just feel wrong.
I'm not saying the sun won't come out sooner from time to time, and maybe it'll move faster for you. In retrospect, I've often realized that I had been trying to convince myself I was fine long before I actually was. (Meaning: you won't feel terrible; you just won't be as recovered as you eventually will be.) Then somewhere around the 18-24 month mark is most likely when you will realize that winter has quietly turned to spring in your heart. By then, you'll hopefully be in a city you like and maybe will have started grad school or something. This is when you'll wake up and realize you are actually pretty comfortable and at home in your new life, and it is when you'll be ready for something real again.
It might be faster than this, but I wouldn't count on that. But the good news is that there you'll be, age 32 or 33, in a new city, closer to your friends and family, ready for a new relationship.
posted by salvia at 11:42 AM on November 2, 2013 [1 favorite]
In my experience, it takes maybe a year after the decision is almost made to actually "break up," e.g. to have long discussions about the whole thing, wake up every day with your stomach plummeting sickly when you remember what's going on, decide who will move out, divide possessions, spend long hours writing in your journal and crying, wonder whether or not to call or email him, and slowly extricate yourselves from one another's lives. That year will suck.
I suspect it might be more than a year due to being married, because of the legal aspect and because the signing of the papers will make it fresh again. Moving and finding a new job direction will also add to the time, since you'll be going through so many changes, though it's great that a number of your friends live in San Francisco.
Somewhere in there may come the phase of "I'm single, I should be dating," where dating (or the promise of it) is used to distract yourself from the pain and loss you're sick of feeling. That phase involves surreal nights at totally unsuitable dance clubs, too much time spent on creating an online dating profile, awkward dates, one night stands, and other things that just feel wrong.
I'm not saying the sun won't come out sooner from time to time, and maybe it'll move faster for you. In retrospect, I've often realized that I had been trying to convince myself I was fine long before I actually was. (Meaning: you won't feel terrible; you just won't be as recovered as you eventually will be.) Then somewhere around the 18-24 month mark is most likely when you will realize that winter has quietly turned to spring in your heart. By then, you'll hopefully be in a city you like and maybe will have started grad school or something. This is when you'll wake up and realize you are actually pretty comfortable and at home in your new life, and it is when you'll be ready for something real again.
It might be faster than this, but I wouldn't count on that. But the good news is that there you'll be, age 32 or 33, in a new city, closer to your friends and family, ready for a new relationship.
posted by salvia at 11:42 AM on November 2, 2013 [1 favorite]
Due to the perceived financial inequality in your house (it's your money, too, but you seem to feel otherwise), it's important that you not bargain shop possible attorneys. If you consult with the best family law attorneys in town, your husband will not be able to use them against you down the line.
posted by Scram at 11:08 AM on November 3, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Scram at 11:08 AM on November 3, 2013 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Hi all. I marked a few best answers that particularly resonated with me, but everyone has been so helpful. Still feeling resolute. I made appointments with two attorneys for this week and reached out to a couple more, so at least I can start from there. If this moves forward, I'm hoping we can stay amicable and solve it through mediation; however, my husband has a longtime (massive jerk of a) friend who's a CA divorce lawyer, so I have to anticipate that guy poisoning his ear. (Is that a legal conflict of interest, anyway, since the guy has known me 10+ years, too?)
Anyway, thanks again, so much. Trying my best to stay strong.
posted by morninganyway at 5:47 PM on November 5, 2013
Anyway, thanks again, so much. Trying my best to stay strong.
posted by morninganyway at 5:47 PM on November 5, 2013
« Older Going off alcohol for a week. Any tips? | Laying in the sun to kill Norovirus? The Googles... Newer »
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by barnone at 10:18 AM on November 1, 2013 [1 favorite]