Did My Friend Steal From Me?
October 23, 2013 5:15 PM Subscribe
My friend helped herself without asking to a lot of guest soaps/shampoos etc. when she stayed at my house. Lots of soapflake I mean "snowflake" details inside.
My husband and I travel for work. Over time we have amassed a lot of little guest soaps/shampoos/lotions/conditioners etc. Since the Bliss ones come in a package that is the exact shade of blue as my guest bathroom, I took all the Bliss stuff and put it in a glass jar on the counter for guests to use if they needed. Over the course of a the last year we have had a few guests stay and they have helped themselves or not, I haven't really noticed or cared. The soaps are there for them to use if they need.
Now fast forward to a couple weeks ago. A friend I know from work asked to stay at my house for the weekend. We were both working the same gig in my town, she lives about an hour and a half away. Rather than have a three hour commute each day of the gig she wanted to stay with me. I said sure, no problem. She arrives and the first thing she says is "Oh God I forgot my wallet at home!" I said don't worry I can drive us to and from work each morning and feed her when we are at my house. If she needs to borrow money I can loan her some. She says she doesn't need money, she brought some food (this is because the last time she stayed at my house I didn't have much of anything she wanted to eat so this time she had brought her own). So the weekend goes along and I drive to work and pay for parking each day and she gets one of the managers to buy her lunch every day. Not loan her the money mind you, straight out buy her lunch. Our work days are long and the second day we break for dinner and she is fussing cause she doesn't want to eat the food she brought and the manager who was buying her lunch is gone. I offer to LOAN her money for dinner and she refuses my offer and pouts until someone else straight out buys her dinner. I got a weird vibe about that. I'd been feeding her at my house but I didn't think I should have to buy her meals at work and it seemed like she was mad that I didn't.
But whatever.
After the gig was done and she left for home, I was cleaning things up and saw the jar of guest soap. I'd been seeing it for a year so it was immediately apparent that over a third of the jar was missing. There were no wrappers in the trash or the shower, nothing. Just a third of the jar gone. I had told her when she arrived and after she said she'd left her wallet, that if she had forgotten any shampoo or anything she should feel free to use the stuff in the jar. I offered it to her, but I never thought she would take so much and not even use any of it at my house.
In the past, I have offered and she has accepted, clothes, money, place to stay, rides, food, etc. I have also helped her find work connections and given her references. I know she doesn't make a lot of money and if I can help out a friend I am happy to do so. I feel pretty confident that I can draw boundaries if need be. The soaps are such a small thing but it feels different. For some reason I feel like she stole from me and now I'm seeing all the rest of the visits and the times she has accepted things from me in a totally different light.
I feel used.
She just texted and asked to stay here a couple days next month. I told her it wasn't possible. I'm hurt and angry and frankly, now I don't trust her.
Am I over reacting do you think?
My husband and I travel for work. Over time we have amassed a lot of little guest soaps/shampoos/lotions/conditioners etc. Since the Bliss ones come in a package that is the exact shade of blue as my guest bathroom, I took all the Bliss stuff and put it in a glass jar on the counter for guests to use if they needed. Over the course of a the last year we have had a few guests stay and they have helped themselves or not, I haven't really noticed or cared. The soaps are there for them to use if they need.
Now fast forward to a couple weeks ago. A friend I know from work asked to stay at my house for the weekend. We were both working the same gig in my town, she lives about an hour and a half away. Rather than have a three hour commute each day of the gig she wanted to stay with me. I said sure, no problem. She arrives and the first thing she says is "Oh God I forgot my wallet at home!" I said don't worry I can drive us to and from work each morning and feed her when we are at my house. If she needs to borrow money I can loan her some. She says she doesn't need money, she brought some food (this is because the last time she stayed at my house I didn't have much of anything she wanted to eat so this time she had brought her own). So the weekend goes along and I drive to work and pay for parking each day and she gets one of the managers to buy her lunch every day. Not loan her the money mind you, straight out buy her lunch. Our work days are long and the second day we break for dinner and she is fussing cause she doesn't want to eat the food she brought and the manager who was buying her lunch is gone. I offer to LOAN her money for dinner and she refuses my offer and pouts until someone else straight out buys her dinner. I got a weird vibe about that. I'd been feeding her at my house but I didn't think I should have to buy her meals at work and it seemed like she was mad that I didn't.
But whatever.
After the gig was done and she left for home, I was cleaning things up and saw the jar of guest soap. I'd been seeing it for a year so it was immediately apparent that over a third of the jar was missing. There were no wrappers in the trash or the shower, nothing. Just a third of the jar gone. I had told her when she arrived and after she said she'd left her wallet, that if she had forgotten any shampoo or anything she should feel free to use the stuff in the jar. I offered it to her, but I never thought she would take so much and not even use any of it at my house.
In the past, I have offered and she has accepted, clothes, money, place to stay, rides, food, etc. I have also helped her find work connections and given her references. I know she doesn't make a lot of money and if I can help out a friend I am happy to do so. I feel pretty confident that I can draw boundaries if need be. The soaps are such a small thing but it feels different. For some reason I feel like she stole from me and now I'm seeing all the rest of the visits and the times she has accepted things from me in a totally different light.
I feel used.
She just texted and asked to stay here a couple days next month. I told her it wasn't possible. I'm hurt and angry and frankly, now I don't trust her.
Am I over reacting do you think?
It seems like your friend is a mooch and mooched from you (and others) and you did the right thing and cut off the mooching. Are we talking like three soaps or thirty? I don't know if you're overreacting, you feel what you feel, but I think you're doing the right thing to basically cut this stuff off.
posted by jessamyn at 5:22 PM on October 23, 2013 [12 favorites]
posted by jessamyn at 5:22 PM on October 23, 2013 [12 favorites]
I would feel the way you do if I were in your shoes. It's not the money -- it's the fact that she's been taking advantage of you. You are perfectly within your rights to not accept it.
posted by DoubleLune at 5:24 PM on October 23, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by DoubleLune at 5:24 PM on October 23, 2013 [3 favorites]
The lunch/food thing is definitely annoying but it is sort of immaterial to the rest of the question, which is about her behavior in your home. You DID, in fact, tell her to help herself to your stuff, and you did not specify that she would need to use your stuff while she was at your home. But yes, it is weird and annoying and over the line that she took a ton of stuff for home.
I had a friend like this who would take it upon himself to check the amounts used in my expensive "hardly use any" moisturizers, and if he felt that I wasn't using them fast enough, would help himself to the entire jar, with the rationalization that I didn't need it as much as him. Your friend is not this kind of egregious jerk, but I would still not be comfortable with them in my house for extended periods of time.
posted by elizardbits at 5:24 PM on October 23, 2013
I had a friend like this who would take it upon himself to check the amounts used in my expensive "hardly use any" moisturizers, and if he felt that I wasn't using them fast enough, would help himself to the entire jar, with the rationalization that I didn't need it as much as him. Your friend is not this kind of egregious jerk, but I would still not be comfortable with them in my house for extended periods of time.
posted by elizardbits at 5:24 PM on October 23, 2013
I had told her when she arrived and after she said she'd left he wallet, that if she had forgotten any shampoo or anything she should feel free to use the stuff in the jar.
This.
Yes, this is an overreaction. She did what you allowed her to do. Such is the 'risk' one takes when being generous. Leave it as a noble gesture on your part, which is ultimately what counts.
posted by Kruger5 at 5:25 PM on October 23, 2013 [14 favorites]
This.
Yes, this is an overreaction. She did what you allowed her to do. Such is the 'risk' one takes when being generous. Leave it as a noble gesture on your part, which is ultimately what counts.
posted by Kruger5 at 5:25 PM on October 23, 2013 [14 favorites]
Best answer: I always err on the side of not inviting people to stay with me unless I really feel comfortable with that. Forget about whether she stole or mooched or took advantage--you don't feel comfortable having her in your house. Don't invite her.
posted by zanni at 5:26 PM on October 23, 2013 [12 favorites]
posted by zanni at 5:26 PM on October 23, 2013 [12 favorites]
Best answer: You sound like you're handling this ok. You don't owe her anything. Shampoo is not something I think about. I have some, and then when I need more, I buy it. But when you don't make a lot of money and probably aren't too skilled with money, every little bit of spending hurts and every little advantage counts.
Plus, her method of personal support and survival skills involve finding other people to do stuff for her. Without you, she will find someone else. Don't sweat it if you've concluded you need to keep your distance.
posted by deanc at 5:28 PM on October 23, 2013 [11 favorites]
Plus, her method of personal support and survival skills involve finding other people to do stuff for her. Without you, she will find someone else. Don't sweat it if you've concluded you need to keep your distance.
posted by deanc at 5:28 PM on October 23, 2013 [11 favorites]
Best answer: She broke the one of the unspoken rules of being a guest in someone's house -- that, whatever they might say, you should use only what you need and be careful not to take advantage of their hospitality.
Of course it's not really about the soap. It's the principle of the thing -- she didn't stay within the boundaries of polite guest conduct, and it's set your teeth on edge.
Honestly, it doesn't matter much who's the jerk in this situation. You both have different ideas about how hospitality and generosity work. You're right to avoid having her as a house guest in the future.
posted by Narrative Priorities at 5:30 PM on October 23, 2013 [35 favorites]
Of course it's not really about the soap. It's the principle of the thing -- she didn't stay within the boundaries of polite guest conduct, and it's set your teeth on edge.
Honestly, it doesn't matter much who's the jerk in this situation. You both have different ideas about how hospitality and generosity work. You're right to avoid having her as a house guest in the future.
posted by Narrative Priorities at 5:30 PM on October 23, 2013 [35 favorites]
Best answer: You are doing great at setting boundaries (clearly stating that if you buy dinner it's a loan, telling her she can't stay next month). Keep it up and try not to worry about the soaps thing. After all you invited her to use them, and she probably didn't really think of it as stealing any more than you felt you were stealing them from the hotel in the first place.
posted by payoto at 5:30 PM on October 23, 2013 [8 favorites]
posted by payoto at 5:30 PM on October 23, 2013 [8 favorites]
You are not over-reacting: not wanting her in your home sounds like an eminately *sensible* reaction.
The soap is relatively small, and by itself I'd just say to let it slide. BUT: combined with her ASKING to stay at your house, the convienent "forgetting" to bring her wallet, depending on you for her transportation and depending on EVERYONE else for her food..... she's definately using you, when she isn't using someone else. All in all, the combined list of her behaviors makes me wonder what ELSE is missing from your home.
Honestly, I've got to recommend cutting her off entirely: no more staying in your house, no more free car trips (she can buy you a tank of gas --- in advance! --- if you *must* give her another ride), no more free meals.
(And not that I'm suggesting you do it, but I bet that if her room and luggage were searched, her wallet would magically be in there!)
posted by easily confused at 5:32 PM on October 23, 2013 [11 favorites]
The soap is relatively small, and by itself I'd just say to let it slide. BUT: combined with her ASKING to stay at your house, the convienent "forgetting" to bring her wallet, depending on you for her transportation and depending on EVERYONE else for her food..... she's definately using you, when she isn't using someone else. All in all, the combined list of her behaviors makes me wonder what ELSE is missing from your home.
Honestly, I've got to recommend cutting her off entirely: no more staying in your house, no more free car trips (she can buy you a tank of gas --- in advance! --- if you *must* give her another ride), no more free meals.
(And not that I'm suggesting you do it, but I bet that if her room and luggage were searched, her wallet would magically be in there!)
posted by easily confused at 5:32 PM on October 23, 2013 [11 favorites]
Some people are thrifty and some are cheapskates that think nothing of exploiting those around them for as much as they can get. Your work colleague sounds like she's the latter. There's no reason to enable this behavior further.
She "forgot" her wallet and allowed others to buy her food when her own food was unappealing to her. She specifically refused offers to borrow money and was perfectly happy to not offer to chip-in for parking or driving costs. Then, instead of just using what she needed of your guest toiletries, she went shopping in your home and took more than what she needed home with her. Yes, technically you offered, but she pushed right past reasonable behavior into taking advantage of you.
If she were in some kind of trouble and asked for help with food/toiletries/money/etc, I'd be inclined to help. If she's just looking for ways to get one over on me, I'd be mad and cut it off.
posted by quince at 5:32 PM on October 23, 2013 [5 favorites]
She "forgot" her wallet and allowed others to buy her food when her own food was unappealing to her. She specifically refused offers to borrow money and was perfectly happy to not offer to chip-in for parking or driving costs. Then, instead of just using what she needed of your guest toiletries, she went shopping in your home and took more than what she needed home with her. Yes, technically you offered, but she pushed right past reasonable behavior into taking advantage of you.
If she were in some kind of trouble and asked for help with food/toiletries/money/etc, I'd be inclined to help. If she's just looking for ways to get one over on me, I'd be mad and cut it off.
posted by quince at 5:32 PM on October 23, 2013 [5 favorites]
I think you're handling things quite well. You've come across something that is a problem for you and have taken steps to ensure that it doesn't happen again. That's mature behaviour.
If this is something that's playing on your mind, then perhaps try to let it go. It's not worth being upset over, especially as you've set a boundary to make sure it won't occur again. In the big scheme of things, it's just a few dollars and a bit of soap.
If it's not bothering you, then just go on with your life as the older, wiser rabbit.
posted by Solomon at 5:34 PM on October 23, 2013 [4 favorites]
If this is something that's playing on your mind, then perhaps try to let it go. It's not worth being upset over, especially as you've set a boundary to make sure it won't occur again. In the big scheme of things, it's just a few dollars and a bit of soap.
If it's not bothering you, then just go on with your life as the older, wiser rabbit.
posted by Solomon at 5:34 PM on October 23, 2013 [4 favorites]
In the past, I have offered and she has accepted, clothes, money, place to stay, rides, food, etc.
I think she didn't forget her wallet. I think she, for whatever reason, just is completely flat broke. And probably embarrassed about it, enough so that is easier for her to look like a mooch than to just say "hey, I'm flat broke".
So, look at it this way: if she had said "Hey, I'm underwater with my bills and flat broke until I get paid again. Do you mind if I take a handful of those toiletries in the bathroom?" what would you have said.
It's fine to stop having her as a guest. But, unless she's also blowing all her money on expensive shoes or something, I'd just chalk it up to her needing it more than you and move on.
posted by anastasiav at 5:37 PM on October 23, 2013 [11 favorites]
I think she didn't forget her wallet. I think she, for whatever reason, just is completely flat broke. And probably embarrassed about it, enough so that is easier for her to look like a mooch than to just say "hey, I'm flat broke".
So, look at it this way: if she had said "Hey, I'm underwater with my bills and flat broke until I get paid again. Do you mind if I take a handful of those toiletries in the bathroom?" what would you have said.
It's fine to stop having her as a guest. But, unless she's also blowing all her money on expensive shoes or something, I'd just chalk it up to her needing it more than you and move on.
posted by anastasiav at 5:37 PM on October 23, 2013 [11 favorites]
Best answer: She probably didn't "forget" her wallet so much as, for whatever reason, she has no money (and that may be why she wanted people to pay for things rather than have you loan her money. She can't pay you back). If she's at the point where she's stealing shampoo, things probably aren't the best for her. I have some empathy for her there, honestly. Being broke and trying to pretend you're not and keeping up with the others around you sucks, and that's what it sounds like is happening here.
But that's her problem. You don't need to make it yours. She's not your responsibility. If she had said "I'm in trouble and I really can't afford anything right now," that would be different, but she didn't.
I'd let the shampoo thing go, but you don't have to let her stay with you again if you're uncomfortable with it.
posted by darksong at 5:40 PM on October 23, 2013 [24 favorites]
But that's her problem. You don't need to make it yours. She's not your responsibility. If she had said "I'm in trouble and I really can't afford anything right now," that would be different, but she didn't.
I'd let the shampoo thing go, but you don't have to let her stay with you again if you're uncomfortable with it.
posted by darksong at 5:40 PM on October 23, 2013 [24 favorites]
Best answer: Shady. I wouldn't want her in my home, pretty much not in my life, now that we know shady little ways. Pouting, until someone buys her dinner? Really? Tacky.
Her crimes are small; she's no Kissinger. And who cares about the shampoo -- I know you don't. It just underlined the rest of it all.
You did good. Wave her goodbye.
posted by dancestoblue at 5:45 PM on October 23, 2013 [7 favorites]
Her crimes are small; she's no Kissinger. And who cares about the shampoo -- I know you don't. It just underlined the rest of it all.
You did good. Wave her goodbye.
posted by dancestoblue at 5:45 PM on October 23, 2013 [7 favorites]
Who cares?
Seriously, she helped herself to some bottles of hotel toiletries that were free, and which had been sitting around unused* over the course of a year.
She sounds like a mooch, in general, but I don't really see how any of the rest of it is your concern or what it has to do with your hotel shampoo.
If you don't want to be her friend, you don't have to be. You're perfectly within your rights to not have her stay anymore.
*Keep in mind that toiletries have a shelf-life. I always bring my own toiletries when I go home for the holidays because the stuff in my mom's guest bathroom is ancient and disgusting. Someone was eventually going to have to use these toiletries, or you would end up throwing them out.
posted by Sara C. at 5:45 PM on October 23, 2013 [7 favorites]
Seriously, she helped herself to some bottles of hotel toiletries that were free, and which had been sitting around unused* over the course of a year.
She sounds like a mooch, in general, but I don't really see how any of the rest of it is your concern or what it has to do with your hotel shampoo.
If you don't want to be her friend, you don't have to be. You're perfectly within your rights to not have her stay anymore.
*Keep in mind that toiletries have a shelf-life. I always bring my own toiletries when I go home for the holidays because the stuff in my mom's guest bathroom is ancient and disgusting. Someone was eventually going to have to use these toiletries, or you would end up throwing them out.
posted by Sara C. at 5:45 PM on October 23, 2013 [7 favorites]
There were no wrappers in the trash or the shower, nothing.
I'm not sure how long a third of the jar could have lasted somebody, but the lack of visible wrappers doesn't necessarily mean that she didn't use the soaps in your shower. She might just be in the habit of gathering up everything that's out of place (trash included) after a shower and sorting through it later. As for the rest, zanni has it.
posted by revi at 5:46 PM on October 23, 2013
I'm not sure how long a third of the jar could have lasted somebody, but the lack of visible wrappers doesn't necessarily mean that she didn't use the soaps in your shower. She might just be in the habit of gathering up everything that's out of place (trash included) after a shower and sorting through it later. As for the rest, zanni has it.
posted by revi at 5:46 PM on October 23, 2013
Response by poster: To clarify for jessamyn. It would be probably like ten or twelve packages I guess, maybe a little more.
posted by WalkerWestridge at 5:46 PM on October 23, 2013
posted by WalkerWestridge at 5:46 PM on October 23, 2013
Best answer: I think you're right to feel queasy and majorly put-off by her behavior, but not because she "stole" some soap from you. I mean, you put the soap out, it's there for the taking, even though most of us know implicitly that you don't empty the canister of soap into your purse on your way out the door. You use what you need, if anything at all, and you leave the rest be. The issue is that she's kind of a prissy jerk who takes advantage of other people and you feel sort of snookered after you interact with her.
Is it stealing, taking a third of a jar of soaps/shampoos? Well, it's not on the same order of magnitude as taking your wallet or iPad or mother's antique ring. It's petty. I think what's really eating at you is that she acts completely entitled to other people's resources and basically brings nothing to the table herself. I mean, even her bringing her own food comes across as a criticism of the food that's on offer.
Don't make this about the soap. Make it about the real issue, which is that she rubs you the wrong way. That's plenty reason to back way off of a friendship/acquaintanceship with someone. Really.
posted by TryTheTilapia at 5:54 PM on October 23, 2013 [26 favorites]
Is it stealing, taking a third of a jar of soaps/shampoos? Well, it's not on the same order of magnitude as taking your wallet or iPad or mother's antique ring. It's petty. I think what's really eating at you is that she acts completely entitled to other people's resources and basically brings nothing to the table herself. I mean, even her bringing her own food comes across as a criticism of the food that's on offer.
Don't make this about the soap. Make it about the real issue, which is that she rubs you the wrong way. That's plenty reason to back way off of a friendship/acquaintanceship with someone. Really.
posted by TryTheTilapia at 5:54 PM on October 23, 2013 [26 favorites]
Best answer: If it were just the soaps you were reacting to, then I'd say your feelings might constitute an overreaction. But it's clearly not just them; it's the cumulative impact of everything she's done, and the thing with the soaps has thrown all the rest of it into starker relief. And truthfully, I think it's because they are a small thing that they make the rest seem worse. The other things she begged, borrowed or not-quite-stole are more essential to life: food, rides to work, a place to stay are all necessities (even if you have the creeping sense that she could've provided them herself). But nobody needs fancy soaps. Taking them -- especially taking an excessive amount of them -- reveals her underlying greed, and maybe suggests that accepting all the other generosity that's been heaped upon her was really more her taking advantage than genuinely needing help.
posted by Smells of Detroit at 5:58 PM on October 23, 2013 [15 favorites]
posted by Smells of Detroit at 5:58 PM on October 23, 2013 [15 favorites]
You know what I have in my guest bathroom? I have a little plastic shower-caddy which has hand towels, a shower pouf, and regular size bottles of shampoo and conditioner. Everything coordinates with my decor and was also super inexpensive so in case I ever do have a guest that flips out and makes off with any (or all) of it, it's not a big deal to replace.
Life is too short to spend it counting how many freebie hotel shampoos you're missing after your guests depart. It's fine if you don't feel she's been a good houseguest and you don't want her back. Accept that and let this go.
posted by trunk muffins at 6:16 PM on October 23, 2013 [8 favorites]
Life is too short to spend it counting how many freebie hotel shampoos you're missing after your guests depart. It's fine if you don't feel she's been a good houseguest and you don't want her back. Accept that and let this go.
posted by trunk muffins at 6:16 PM on October 23, 2013 [8 favorites]
When you're having a bad day, like, someone in front of you turns without a signal and it suddenly seems like the worst thing anybody ever did, or whatever. When you're already feeling a bit taken-advantage-of, you notice every little thing and you start tallying it up and probably a lot of things that you notice are silly and not really worth holding a grudge over. The thing is, they aren't really why you're upset, you were upset already and that's the thing you can put a label on.
So, yeah. The soap's a red herring. I wouldn't feel bad about not inviting her back and distancing yourself for the future. Maybe she's just a bit self-involved, maybe she's having serious money trouble, maybe she has other problems--who knows. She's just someone you know from work, you don't have to be responsible for her, so at least now you can wash your hands of the whole affair.
(Get it? You can--I'll see myself out.)
posted by Sequence at 6:20 PM on October 23, 2013 [16 favorites]
So, yeah. The soap's a red herring. I wouldn't feel bad about not inviting her back and distancing yourself for the future. Maybe she's just a bit self-involved, maybe she's having serious money trouble, maybe she has other problems--who knows. She's just someone you know from work, you don't have to be responsible for her, so at least now you can wash your hands of the whole affair.
(Get it? You can--I'll see myself out.)
posted by Sequence at 6:20 PM on October 23, 2013 [16 favorites]
Is it possible that your friend is flat broke? Maybe she took the toiletries because she doesn't have enough at home and can't afford more. (Especially if they are nice and it's clear that they were free to you, and her alternative is something from the dollar store.) Maybe she "forgot" her wallet because she otherwise wouldn't be able to afford meals at work, and being forgetful is less embarrassing than having to air her dirty financial laundry every time someone asks if she's in with the gang for dinner.
I agree that it sucks that she's being such an annoying mooch, and she should have asked to take extra soaps, or said something. But there are ways of looking at her behavior that don't make her out to be an evil thief who is deliberately trying to make your life harder.
posted by Sara C. at 6:25 PM on October 23, 2013 [4 favorites]
I agree that it sucks that she's being such an annoying mooch, and she should have asked to take extra soaps, or said something. But there are ways of looking at her behavior that don't make her out to be an evil thief who is deliberately trying to make your life harder.
posted by Sara C. at 6:25 PM on October 23, 2013 [4 favorites]
You referred to her as friend and co-worker, but it sounds like she's really more of a co-worker you are friendly with. If that's the case maybe it won't feel like as much of a betrayal if you reframe it that way.
posted by Room 641-A at 6:31 PM on October 23, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by Room 641-A at 6:31 PM on October 23, 2013 [4 favorites]
If it were just the soaps and shampoos, I'd consider it supremely tacky, but brush it off - hotel soap is free.
But since it's part of a huge pattern of mooching, you're right to be royally pissed. You'd be justified in never offering her anything else; you've given her enough. And avoid any situations where there's a chance of her "forgetting her wallet" or otherwise manipulating you into giving her stuff.
posted by Metroid Baby at 6:52 PM on October 23, 2013 [5 favorites]
But since it's part of a huge pattern of mooching, you're right to be royally pissed. You'd be justified in never offering her anything else; you've given her enough. And avoid any situations where there's a chance of her "forgetting her wallet" or otherwise manipulating you into giving her stuff.
posted by Metroid Baby at 6:52 PM on October 23, 2013 [5 favorites]
I think it's a good thing that you let her know that she can't stay with you again. I would hate to see this become a habit for her. The soap--meh, it's a little thing. The overall pattern of mooching--that's something bigger.
There's many a time that I've stayed with people or had them do something for me, and I've been broke at the time, but I really try to do something to indicate gratitude for their generosity. Even if it's just doing dishes or brushing the dog, giving back is always appreciated. The fact that you feel that she 'mooches' indicates to me that you don't feel like she reciprocates in any way.
posted by BlueHorse at 7:38 PM on October 23, 2013 [5 favorites]
There's many a time that I've stayed with people or had them do something for me, and I've been broke at the time, but I really try to do something to indicate gratitude for their generosity. Even if it's just doing dishes or brushing the dog, giving back is always appreciated. The fact that you feel that she 'mooches' indicates to me that you don't feel like she reciprocates in any way.
posted by BlueHorse at 7:38 PM on October 23, 2013 [5 favorites]
She may have been broke, but that doesn't really excuse her behavior. I've been broke, I know what it's like. When someone offers me their home, I graciously treat it with care and don't take more than I need. I pack my own lunch as eating out is a luxury.
posted by eq21 at 7:47 PM on October 23, 2013 [10 favorites]
posted by eq21 at 7:47 PM on October 23, 2013 [10 favorites]
Agreement on the not forgotten wallet -how could she have arrived in your city without ID?
The question is - how and why is someone employed enough to have business travel in the job description so broke? Weirdness. Unless you know something we don't, seems like she has bad spending habits or enjoys being taken care of. Maybe both.
Do not feel guilty.
posted by Lesser Shrew at 7:54 PM on October 23, 2013 [5 favorites]
The question is - how and why is someone employed enough to have business travel in the job description so broke? Weirdness. Unless you know something we don't, seems like she has bad spending habits or enjoys being taken care of. Maybe both.
Do not feel guilty.
posted by Lesser Shrew at 7:54 PM on October 23, 2013 [5 favorites]
If it were just the soap, it'd be weird but excusable. Everything taken together makes it seem like she's a mooch. I wouldn't let her stay at my house again.
posted by empath at 8:04 PM on October 23, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by empath at 8:04 PM on October 23, 2013 [3 favorites]
She may well be flat broke, and not very mature about it. You don't have to have her in your home any more - these are her problems to sort out. You can keep having your perfectly good boundaries about it. You don't have to drive her anywhere (and if you do drive her or anyone else, see about claiming that for reimbursement with your employer, or if not, on your own taxes if you itemize and are in the US) and you don't have to buy meals. If she pouts, you can say "sorry, I'm on a strict budget."
I'm not comfortable judging her too harshly, as I've certainly been in a pinch, particularly in my 20s, where I had to travel for some work reason and had nowhere near the cash others did. I was a bit better at saying "unfortunately, I'm just broke, I need to eat in/bring a sandwich/whatever," but who knows what's going on with her. It sounds like all you need to do in this case is just keep drawing lines so that you don't end up exposing yourself to more little losses. Not because it's horrible to lose shampoo, because it isn't, but because you no longer really trust her to be straight-up about things.
posted by Miko at 8:25 PM on October 23, 2013 [2 favorites]
I'm not comfortable judging her too harshly, as I've certainly been in a pinch, particularly in my 20s, where I had to travel for some work reason and had nowhere near the cash others did. I was a bit better at saying "unfortunately, I'm just broke, I need to eat in/bring a sandwich/whatever," but who knows what's going on with her. It sounds like all you need to do in this case is just keep drawing lines so that you don't end up exposing yourself to more little losses. Not because it's horrible to lose shampoo, because it isn't, but because you no longer really trust her to be straight-up about things.
posted by Miko at 8:25 PM on October 23, 2013 [2 favorites]
When I read that you said her next visit would not be possible, I thought "Yesss!" Good for you. She turned around with her tail between her legs. She must know she's crossed the line. You have nothing further to do here. If she wants to make it up to you then it's for her to take the next step, whatever that is. You'll know when you see it if it's good enough for you.
posted by Dragonness at 8:34 PM on October 23, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Dragonness at 8:34 PM on October 23, 2013 [1 favorite]
I am going to go with her being flat broke. If I forgot my wallet and was staying with a friend, I would have simply sent my friend some money via my bank's transfer feature or Paypal and asked for cash in return. Your friend sounds desperate. The question to me is whether she is always like this or has just hit a rough patch. How long have you been friends? Does she ever give back to the friendship?
From what you describe, you're putting in all of the effort. That would annoy me, especially if she has a pattern of relying on others to pay for her.
I would forget about the soap and look at the bigger picture - is she going through a really difficult time and really needs help or does she regularly use people?
posted by parakeetdog at 8:59 PM on October 23, 2013 [5 favorites]
From what you describe, you're putting in all of the effort. That would annoy me, especially if she has a pattern of relying on others to pay for her.
I would forget about the soap and look at the bigger picture - is she going through a really difficult time and really needs help or does she regularly use people?
posted by parakeetdog at 8:59 PM on October 23, 2013 [5 favorites]
Best answer: Nope, not overreacting. Teensy thing, but it just hit your tipping point. This will probably rankle for a while. You invited someone into your home (heart) and she didn't appreciate or respect the privilege you extended, the compliment you were paying her. However effortless you wanted your generosity to appear, you made an effort. Sadly, that 'effortlessness' can be taken at face value by the boorish - and you can be taken advantage of - when they believe that ease is an indicator of value. Yeah, this will rankle for a while yet.
But please don't let it fester - don't be angry at yourself! You weren't snookered, you simply proceeded as if this was a polite, appreciative, normal member of your society/culture and you were as simply mistaken. You thought you were dealing with a friend, and friends don't take advantage of one another, so you feel betrayed. By her, but mainly by yourself, for poor friend-judgement. But! She was not a friend! Yay! She was a mere co-worker. She took advantage of your good heart, but she did not get the better of you. She just showed her ass. Welp, her ass can't stay at your house any more.
As a consolation, two recent tipping points for me:
Middle-aged female houseguest. Cold snap. Houseguest too busy to shop. I offer to sell her at cost price my yummy new gloves bought the year before on sale and saved for this winter (all explained to guest). Her response: "I'll give you twenty bucks for them. That's a good price. For something just sitting in a cupboard otherwise. I am willing to do you this favor. Twenty bucks."
No, she did not get the gloves. At any price.
Twentysomething male houseguest. Gently informs me I am remiss as a hostess by telling me tales of more accomplished hosts of his ken. You see, I did not provide bus passes for him and for his friend (who was in fact the one who had actually been invited). Only breakfast, lunch, dinner, snacks, drinks, liquor, my sole Icharger, my fold-out couch, my living room, my shower, my towels, my maps of the city and the keys to my house.
No, he has not been back. Nor has his friend.
posted by likeso at 9:05 PM on October 23, 2013 [8 favorites]
But please don't let it fester - don't be angry at yourself! You weren't snookered, you simply proceeded as if this was a polite, appreciative, normal member of your society/culture and you were as simply mistaken. You thought you were dealing with a friend, and friends don't take advantage of one another, so you feel betrayed. By her, but mainly by yourself, for poor friend-judgement. But! She was not a friend! Yay! She was a mere co-worker. She took advantage of your good heart, but she did not get the better of you. She just showed her ass. Welp, her ass can't stay at your house any more.
As a consolation, two recent tipping points for me:
Middle-aged female houseguest. Cold snap. Houseguest too busy to shop. I offer to sell her at cost price my yummy new gloves bought the year before on sale and saved for this winter (all explained to guest). Her response: "I'll give you twenty bucks for them. That's a good price. For something just sitting in a cupboard otherwise. I am willing to do you this favor. Twenty bucks."
No, she did not get the gloves. At any price.
Twentysomething male houseguest. Gently informs me I am remiss as a hostess by telling me tales of more accomplished hosts of his ken. You see, I did not provide bus passes for him and for his friend (who was in fact the one who had actually been invited). Only breakfast, lunch, dinner, snacks, drinks, liquor, my sole Icharger, my fold-out couch, my living room, my shower, my towels, my maps of the city and the keys to my house.
No, he has not been back. Nor has his friend.
posted by likeso at 9:05 PM on October 23, 2013 [8 favorites]
Best answer: Sounds like something is up with her and good move not allowing her to stay again
But in terms of the actual soaps in the jar, it could just be your brain coming up with evidence to fit the uncomfortable feeling you had having her in your house. No one has enough mental energy to keep track of the amounts of something like tiny soaps in a guest bathroom. Unless the jar is like, totally empty, which doesn't seem to be the case. You wouldn't pay attention to something like that when other people who weren't questionable came over.
It could be that all your friends and family are slowly taking soaps.
But like you said it's not about the soap. I just don't think it's possible to convict this woman of Grand Theft Soap based on the evidence presented.
posted by hamsterdam at 9:06 PM on October 23, 2013 [5 favorites]
But in terms of the actual soaps in the jar, it could just be your brain coming up with evidence to fit the uncomfortable feeling you had having her in your house. No one has enough mental energy to keep track of the amounts of something like tiny soaps in a guest bathroom. Unless the jar is like, totally empty, which doesn't seem to be the case. You wouldn't pay attention to something like that when other people who weren't questionable came over.
It could be that all your friends and family are slowly taking soaps.
But like you said it's not about the soap. I just don't think it's possible to convict this woman of Grand Theft Soap based on the evidence presented.
posted by hamsterdam at 9:06 PM on October 23, 2013 [5 favorites]
Let me get this straight. These are soaps you took from other places that you did not use when you were traveling, you brought them home, you put them in a jar and told her to take what she needed and she took some, probably more than she used during her visit? I hope it is not only about the soap.
I don't think it is. Actions speak for themselves. She has shown who she is. We do not know the motives for her actions, whether she is flat out broke or a weasel, but she did something you are not comfortable with so good on you for telling her it won't be possible to stay with you later in the month.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 9:08 PM on October 23, 2013 [9 favorites]
I don't think it is. Actions speak for themselves. She has shown who she is. We do not know the motives for her actions, whether she is flat out broke or a weasel, but she did something you are not comfortable with so good on you for telling her it won't be possible to stay with you later in the month.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 9:08 PM on October 23, 2013 [9 favorites]
Best answer: I feel used.
You were.
She just texted and asked to stay here a couple days next month. I told her it wasn't possible. I'm hurt and angry and frankly, now I don't trust her.
Am I over reacting do you think?
Not at all. She's abused your trust and your hospitality and acted abominably. I don't think her motives are relevant. You don't owe her anything, and I think you're totally justified in not inviting her back.
For some reason I feel like she stole from me and now I'm seeing all the rest of the visits and the times she has accepted things from me in a totally different light.
She acted like a boor and showed extremely poor manners, but it's not theft. It's more equivalent to being offered the potatoes at dinner, and taking all of them so no one else gets any. It's heinously rude, but the potatoes, like the soap, were offered to them.
So, you were a decent host, and you guest was a jerk. This happens sometimes. You weren't significantly damaged by this, so there's no need to worry about it any more. Don't invite her back, and go on with your life.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 9:20 PM on October 23, 2013 [8 favorites]
You were.
She just texted and asked to stay here a couple days next month. I told her it wasn't possible. I'm hurt and angry and frankly, now I don't trust her.
Am I over reacting do you think?
Not at all. She's abused your trust and your hospitality and acted abominably. I don't think her motives are relevant. You don't owe her anything, and I think you're totally justified in not inviting her back.
For some reason I feel like she stole from me and now I'm seeing all the rest of the visits and the times she has accepted things from me in a totally different light.
She acted like a boor and showed extremely poor manners, but it's not theft. It's more equivalent to being offered the potatoes at dinner, and taking all of them so no one else gets any. It's heinously rude, but the potatoes, like the soap, were offered to them.
So, you were a decent host, and you guest was a jerk. This happens sometimes. You weren't significantly damaged by this, so there's no need to worry about it any more. Don't invite her back, and go on with your life.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 9:20 PM on October 23, 2013 [8 favorites]
This sounds like kind of a tragic situation for her, one way or another. Either:
1) She is really, really broke and desperate and probably a bit ashamed of having to take advantage of people like this, or
2) She really has no clue how these kinds of social interactions should work, and what she's giving up by behaving this way, or
3) both.
You're completely within your rights to feel upset with her, but if you can find it in yourself to view the situation compassionately, that would be a wonderful grace.
posted by amtho at 9:22 PM on October 23, 2013 [13 favorites]
1) She is really, really broke and desperate and probably a bit ashamed of having to take advantage of people like this, or
2) She really has no clue how these kinds of social interactions should work, and what she's giving up by behaving this way, or
3) both.
You're completely within your rights to feel upset with her, but if you can find it in yourself to view the situation compassionately, that would be a wonderful grace.
posted by amtho at 9:22 PM on October 23, 2013 [13 favorites]
They're not just soaps. They're soaps that match the bathroom!
If I saw a cute glass jar of soap and shampoo that matched my hosts' bathroom decor, I might use ONE but there is no way I'd help myself to a big pile.
Also, if she is demanding people buy her dinner because she doesn't like the food she brought, that sounds a lot more like mooching than being broke.
posted by selfmedicating at 9:32 PM on October 23, 2013 [6 favorites]
If I saw a cute glass jar of soap and shampoo that matched my hosts' bathroom decor, I might use ONE but there is no way I'd help myself to a big pile.
Also, if she is demanding people buy her dinner because she doesn't like the food she brought, that sounds a lot more like mooching than being broke.
posted by selfmedicating at 9:32 PM on October 23, 2013 [6 favorites]
I don't think you're overreacting. The soap is small and really doesn't matter, but it was the straw that broke the camel's back. It made you realize that she's a mooch and a user, so that's good. I don't think you can stew over the soaps or expect to ever be repaid those meals and rides, etc. Now you recognize her for what she is and you're not going to let her leech off you anymore. I think that's the right response. No more stays at your house, no more meals, no more rides. Especially if she's the type who never offers to do anything (or never offers expecting someone to accept, anyway) and is never grateful. People who expect things but never give are the worst.
posted by AppleTurnover at 12:24 AM on October 24, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by AppleTurnover at 12:24 AM on October 24, 2013 [3 favorites]
Best answer: I don't think the soap is a red herring. It's the clearest example of crossing the line. Indirectly getting someone to buy her dinner might be tacky, but it's not out of line. She needed dinner, and IME it's not uncommon for higher-ups to occasionally pick up the tab.
But to take all the soaps crosses a line from getting help into taking things. I was once broke enough to wonder what happens to those almost-empty toilet paper rolls at work, but toilet paper (like soap!) fall under the "use on the premises" clause. They're there for you to use as much as you need while there, and that's it.
I mean, none of us would begrudge a guest using as much TP as they happened to need, but surely we'd notice someone who left carrying the new 24-roll package we just bought. None of us would begrudge a guest throwing away an old sponge and opening a new one, but surely we'd feel weird about someone pocketing a stack of new, unopened sponges.
So, while I agree with all the comments saying "this is sad," I also want to agree with you that for me, this crosses a line and would make it hard to trust her. Personally, I might still let her stay with me, if I liked her in every other way (which you don't), but I don't think you're overreacting.
Also, you should watch this video from Friends, though the rules are a bit different for them as hotel guests.
posted by salvia at 12:31 AM on October 24, 2013 [4 favorites]
But to take all the soaps crosses a line from getting help into taking things. I was once broke enough to wonder what happens to those almost-empty toilet paper rolls at work, but toilet paper (like soap!) fall under the "use on the premises" clause. They're there for you to use as much as you need while there, and that's it.
I mean, none of us would begrudge a guest using as much TP as they happened to need, but surely we'd notice someone who left carrying the new 24-roll package we just bought. None of us would begrudge a guest throwing away an old sponge and opening a new one, but surely we'd feel weird about someone pocketing a stack of new, unopened sponges.
So, while I agree with all the comments saying "this is sad," I also want to agree with you that for me, this crosses a line and would make it hard to trust her. Personally, I might still let her stay with me, if I liked her in every other way (which you don't), but I don't think you're overreacting.
Also, you should watch this video from Friends, though the rules are a bit different for them as hotel guests.
posted by salvia at 12:31 AM on October 24, 2013 [4 favorites]
Best answer: IMO, yes she stole from you. There is a difference between "if you have forgotten to bring soap/shampoo whatever, feel free to use the stuff in the guest bathroom" and "help yourself to whatever you want". You invited her to use your guest bathroom supplies not take whatever she needed/wanted.
A lot of people are suggesting that she's just totally broke and embarrassed about it but if that were the case she'd quietly eat the food she brought for herself or skip a meal and pretend she'd already eaten/wasn't hungry not pout and moan until someone bought her dinner and if she really, really couldn't eat the food she brought with her for some reason, she'd have accepted the "loan" and bought the cheapest thing possible.
Maybe she is totally broke but her actions sound more like someone who is totally shameless not totally desperate.
posted by missmagenta at 2:25 AM on October 24, 2013 [9 favorites]
A lot of people are suggesting that she's just totally broke and embarrassed about it but if that were the case she'd quietly eat the food she brought for herself or skip a meal and pretend she'd already eaten/wasn't hungry not pout and moan until someone bought her dinner and if she really, really couldn't eat the food she brought with her for some reason, she'd have accepted the "loan" and bought the cheapest thing possible.
Maybe she is totally broke but her actions sound more like someone who is totally shameless not totally desperate.
posted by missmagenta at 2:25 AM on October 24, 2013 [9 favorites]
Best answer: Your coworker may think (whether it's true or not) that managers will be reimbursed for an employee meal. Even so, all of this overreliance on the kindness of others without hints of either gratitude or reciprocity of some kind are pretty gross.
This sounds like a situation that was a long time in coming, and the soap is merely where the line in the sand happened to land. I'm willing to wager that if any of your house guests with other social skills had done the same thing, this AskMe wouldn't exist.
Let's say the soap magically offered to return to your house, with the condition that everything between you and this coworker went back to the way it was. Would you take it gladly, or would you consider it a price paid for your new boundary? Your answer is what I think should guide how you move forward.
posted by gnomeloaf at 5:34 AM on October 24, 2013 [2 favorites]
This sounds like a situation that was a long time in coming, and the soap is merely where the line in the sand happened to land. I'm willing to wager that if any of your house guests with other social skills had done the same thing, this AskMe wouldn't exist.
Let's say the soap magically offered to return to your house, with the condition that everything between you and this coworker went back to the way it was. Would you take it gladly, or would you consider it a price paid for your new boundary? Your answer is what I think should guide how you move forward.
posted by gnomeloaf at 5:34 AM on October 24, 2013 [2 favorites]
Best answer: I agree with everyone else that the soap is a MacGuffin, but this
A friend I know from work asked to stay at my house for the weekend. We were both working the same gig in my town, she lives about an hour and a half away.
Either I'm missing something, or you work for an exceptionally stingy company, because this kind of travel expense would normally be paid for by the company.
Did she claim for a hotel room or mileage? Was she claiming for meals? If not, why wasn't she?
And, shouldn't you be? Hard to claim for something so nebulous as having a coworker stay in your home. Nevertheless, I'd ask about it. You might get some interesting answers.
BTW, anyone chiding you for amassing these soaps and shampoos in the first place is drawing a false equivalence, if these are hotel soaps and not ones you nicked from other people's guest bathrooms (I presume the former). The little soaps and shampoos are provided by hotels as part of a business transaction which you paid for. Your friend would be in the wrong if she'd nicked more than her fair share of little soaps from a hotel (though some would argue it's okay if you ask the hotel for them), but what's really wrong here is that she has taken full advantage of her role as a friend (hospitality provided out of your generosity) but done so in a business situation (where it's the business's responsibility to make provision for these things out of their budget) and then treated your bathroom as though it were a hotel bathroom, in a way that a hotel would also have frowned upon! When two people mix business and friendship, one of them usually gets the best of both worlds while the other one gets the worst.
I agree that her actions aren't fully explained by money problems. If that were the issue I wouldn't be unsympathetic, and I can see how awful it would quickly become to have to tell everybody you know, all the time, that you're too broke to even buy your own shampoo. In those circumstances, I can see how someone would get into a pattern of mooching and also get to convincing themselves that nobody noticed the longer nobody said anything. Not that it would be an excuse, but it would sure be an explanation.
But, by pouting until someone outright bought her dinner, and doing so after you outright offered to loan her the money - that's drawing attention to her own mooching. I really don't understand that. If this is a passive-aggressive way of pointing out that the company has an unfairly stingy expense policy, it seems likely to backfire {:-0
You have every reason to ask why someone in her position would be so perpetually without money and why a genuinely broke person would put so much effort into performance mooching when they most need to pull up all their bluff for a favourable impression. Whatever the explanation for this, it isn't good.
posted by tel3path at 6:22 AM on October 24, 2013 [3 favorites]
A friend I know from work asked to stay at my house for the weekend. We were both working the same gig in my town, she lives about an hour and a half away.
Either I'm missing something, or you work for an exceptionally stingy company, because this kind of travel expense would normally be paid for by the company.
Did she claim for a hotel room or mileage? Was she claiming for meals? If not, why wasn't she?
And, shouldn't you be? Hard to claim for something so nebulous as having a coworker stay in your home. Nevertheless, I'd ask about it. You might get some interesting answers.
BTW, anyone chiding you for amassing these soaps and shampoos in the first place is drawing a false equivalence, if these are hotel soaps and not ones you nicked from other people's guest bathrooms (I presume the former). The little soaps and shampoos are provided by hotels as part of a business transaction which you paid for. Your friend would be in the wrong if she'd nicked more than her fair share of little soaps from a hotel (though some would argue it's okay if you ask the hotel for them), but what's really wrong here is that she has taken full advantage of her role as a friend (hospitality provided out of your generosity) but done so in a business situation (where it's the business's responsibility to make provision for these things out of their budget) and then treated your bathroom as though it were a hotel bathroom, in a way that a hotel would also have frowned upon! When two people mix business and friendship, one of them usually gets the best of both worlds while the other one gets the worst.
I agree that her actions aren't fully explained by money problems. If that were the issue I wouldn't be unsympathetic, and I can see how awful it would quickly become to have to tell everybody you know, all the time, that you're too broke to even buy your own shampoo. In those circumstances, I can see how someone would get into a pattern of mooching and also get to convincing themselves that nobody noticed the longer nobody said anything. Not that it would be an excuse, but it would sure be an explanation.
But, by pouting until someone outright bought her dinner, and doing so after you outright offered to loan her the money - that's drawing attention to her own mooching. I really don't understand that. If this is a passive-aggressive way of pointing out that the company has an unfairly stingy expense policy, it seems likely to backfire {:-0
You have every reason to ask why someone in her position would be so perpetually without money and why a genuinely broke person would put so much effort into performance mooching when they most need to pull up all their bluff for a favourable impression. Whatever the explanation for this, it isn't good.
posted by tel3path at 6:22 AM on October 24, 2013 [3 favorites]
She sounds like someone who takes advantage. I wouldn't call her actions outright stealing, any more than it's stealing to bring it home from a hotel, but it's cheesy. Of course you don't want her to stay again, she doesn't offer real friendship, she just wants a free place to stay, free meals, etc. I'd be super-friendly at work events, but too busy when she wants to stay. She's sounds manipulative, and may take it out on you when you don't allow her to manipulate you.
I'd wonder if she stayed with you, but put in for per diem expenses, but I probably wouldn't pursue it.
posted by theora55 at 6:27 AM on October 24, 2013 [3 favorites]
I'd wonder if she stayed with you, but put in for per diem expenses, but I probably wouldn't pursue it.
posted by theora55 at 6:27 AM on October 24, 2013 [3 favorites]
Financial reasons may well exist. Hard to square that with stated fact that she brought her own food but then did not eat that food. That's weirdness.
posted by Lesser Shrew at 6:41 AM on October 24, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by Lesser Shrew at 6:41 AM on October 24, 2013 [4 favorites]
Mod note: Folks just answer the questions being asked and don't go nuts extrapolating about things you don't know anything about.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 11:06 AM on October 24, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 11:06 AM on October 24, 2013 [2 favorites]
I'm proud of you for figuring out this co-worker is not a friend, and for responding by enforcing a tighter boundary around your home.
In the words of Mad Men's Don Draper, "People will show you who they are, but we ignore it because we want them to be who we want them to be." Yes, it would have been so nice if only she would have made more grateful choices. If only she would have reciprocated in some way. If only she hadn't told such odd stories to save a buck. But she didn't. Good for you for seeing who she truly is.
I once had a cheapskate "friend" like your co-worker - and it took awhile for me to finally figure her out. She would spin these odd tales to save herself these rather small amounts of money - and the kicker is, her income put her in the top 3% of US income earners. I learned never to put myself between her and her extremely odd relationship to money.
posted by hush at 11:12 AM on October 24, 2013 [2 favorites]
In the words of Mad Men's Don Draper, "People will show you who they are, but we ignore it because we want them to be who we want them to be." Yes, it would have been so nice if only she would have made more grateful choices. If only she would have reciprocated in some way. If only she hadn't told such odd stories to save a buck. But she didn't. Good for you for seeing who she truly is.
I once had a cheapskate "friend" like your co-worker - and it took awhile for me to finally figure her out. She would spin these odd tales to save herself these rather small amounts of money - and the kicker is, her income put her in the top 3% of US income earners. I learned never to put myself between her and her extremely odd relationship to money.
posted by hush at 11:12 AM on October 24, 2013 [2 favorites]
Nth-ing not making this about the soap issue. Consider the irony here: at the hotel, you helped yourself to soaps you didn't actually need or use while staying there, and now you're upset that this woman helped herself to soaps she didn't actually need or use while staying with you. So if that makes her a thief, then you're kind of one as well.
That said, you're right to not invite her into your home or give her rides if she's been less than gracious with you as a guest. You have no obligation to host her again, and she has every obligation to understand this.
posted by mochapickle at 12:02 PM on October 24, 2013 [1 favorite]
That said, you're right to not invite her into your home or give her rides if she's been less than gracious with you as a guest. You have no obligation to host her again, and she has every obligation to understand this.
posted by mochapickle at 12:02 PM on October 24, 2013 [1 favorite]
"I'm hurt and angry and frankly, now I don't trust her." Yes, this is an overreaction to someone being a bad house guest. A lot of people are bad house guests for a variety of reasons (though not any mefi members, I'm sure, never them). She didn't "steal" from you anymore than someone who drinks all the beer in the fridge does after they are offered one, or who lets someone cook them a nice meal and then wash the dishes.
Are you sure this reaction isn't actually about the fact that you didn't see her for what she was before this? "In the past, I have offered and she has accepted, clothes, money, place to stay, rides, food, etc. I have also helped her find work connections and given her references." This is more than most people give somewhat casual friends and, to be honest, may not really be appropriate unless you're cool with situations like this happening (which some people are and that's fine). You've just learned a relatively inexpensive lesson.
posted by skermunkil at 2:00 PM on October 24, 2013 [1 favorite]
Are you sure this reaction isn't actually about the fact that you didn't see her for what she was before this? "In the past, I have offered and she has accepted, clothes, money, place to stay, rides, food, etc. I have also helped her find work connections and given her references." This is more than most people give somewhat casual friends and, to be honest, may not really be appropriate unless you're cool with situations like this happening (which some people are and that's fine). You've just learned a relatively inexpensive lesson.
posted by skermunkil at 2:00 PM on October 24, 2013 [1 favorite]
This person took something from your home without asking or otherwise getting permission to do so. That is stealing. Just because it wasn't a vase or a ring or a book doesn't make it "not stealing". "Stealing a small thing" does NOT equal "not stealing". You might react differently to a "small theft" versus a "large theft", depending on how you define small and large, but she did steal from you.
posted by ersatzkat at 2:05 PM on October 24, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by ersatzkat at 2:05 PM on October 24, 2013 [3 favorites]
This person took something from your home without asking or otherwise getting permission to do so. That is stealing.
I totally stole a tampon from my friend's house yesterday, then. I could have afforded it, but, well. I think I'm going to have to call her to confess.
See what I mean? Your friend stole something from you that was of zero consequence. Soaps you got FOR FREE and for very little effort are much less to be upset over than something like a book or a ring or a vase that was important to you.
posted by mochapickle at 2:59 PM on October 24, 2013
I totally stole a tampon from my friend's house yesterday, then. I could have afforded it, but, well. I think I'm going to have to call her to confess.
See what I mean? Your friend stole something from you that was of zero consequence. Soaps you got FOR FREE and for very little effort are much less to be upset over than something like a book or a ring or a vase that was important to you.
posted by mochapickle at 2:59 PM on October 24, 2013
Mod note: Folks. please stop the "was it stealing" derail and either answer the question or move on?
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 3:00 PM on October 24, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 3:00 PM on October 24, 2013 [1 favorite]
You need to stop pretending to be more generous than you really are. You clearly don't like, respect, or empathize with your so-called friend. You need to stop pretending to be her friend.
You told her to use the Bliss stuff (which you didn't pay retail for).
Seriously, when I have ppl over and invite them or okay them to stay with me, my policy is that whatever is mine (food/toiletries) is theirs for the taking or borrowing while they stay in my crumby apartment.
Did they just help themselves to a glass of my favorite and pricey mini carton of organic OJ without asking? Fine. I invited them. That person is my friend and it's important to me to be hospitable and not seethe and gripe later about how they should have known this or that.
They are my guest. If I just expected that people silently know what the rules are even if something entirely different came out of my mouth , I wouldn't have houseguests.
Also, you should consider dropping the whole posturing that you two are friends. To seethe over missing bottles of bliss samples for so many paragraphs....wow, clearly this "friendship" is not healthy for you. Politely distance yourself and just let it all go. Think of it as a charitable donation.
posted by discopolo at 3:12 PM on October 24, 2013 [5 favorites]
You told her to use the Bliss stuff (which you didn't pay retail for).
Seriously, when I have ppl over and invite them or okay them to stay with me, my policy is that whatever is mine (food/toiletries) is theirs for the taking or borrowing while they stay in my crumby apartment.
Did they just help themselves to a glass of my favorite and pricey mini carton of organic OJ without asking? Fine. I invited them. That person is my friend and it's important to me to be hospitable and not seethe and gripe later about how they should have known this or that.
They are my guest. If I just expected that people silently know what the rules are even if something entirely different came out of my mouth , I wouldn't have houseguests.
Also, you should consider dropping the whole posturing that you two are friends. To seethe over missing bottles of bliss samples for so many paragraphs....wow, clearly this "friendship" is not healthy for you. Politely distance yourself and just let it all go. Think of it as a charitable donation.
posted by discopolo at 3:12 PM on October 24, 2013 [5 favorites]
Response by poster: Consider the irony here: at the hotel, you helped yourself to soaps you didn't actually need or use while staying there, and now you're upset that this woman helped herself to soaps she didn't actually need or use while staying with you. So if that makes her a thief, then you're kind of one as well.
Well, except we actually paid to stay in the hotel where we got the soap. As far as I know, the price of your room covers the soap and lotion and stuff that they bring you each day, its not the same as taking towels or the bath mat or something is it? Or am I wrong about that? Are you not supposed to take the soap in your hotel room? If not, that is news to me.
posted by WalkerWestridge at 6:44 PM on October 24, 2013 [6 favorites]
Well, except we actually paid to stay in the hotel where we got the soap. As far as I know, the price of your room covers the soap and lotion and stuff that they bring you each day, its not the same as taking towels or the bath mat or something is it? Or am I wrong about that? Are you not supposed to take the soap in your hotel room? If not, that is news to me.
posted by WalkerWestridge at 6:44 PM on October 24, 2013 [6 favorites]
You are supposed to use the soap, but amongst some circles, it is considered gauche to load up on toiletries at hotels that you aren't actually using while you are staying at the hotel, but are simply taking to use at some future time (I'm not saying that this isn't a common practice, though! I do it myself sometimes). It is definitely not equivalent to taking the towels, but neither is what your friend did.
Consider the difference between a person who stays at a hotel and then brings home the opened bottles of toiletries because they might as well get used up, and a person who stays at the same hotel and cleans out the toiletries every day so they can accumulate a stash to bring home with them, scouts the room for other freebies such as a sewing kit or the pen and pad of paper or postcards (with no plans to use any of these things during the trip), and calls the front desk to ask for a complimentary toothbrush and comb (which most hotels will give to you for no additional charge, if you tell them you've forgotten yours). Both of these hotel guests are operating within the bounds of accepted behavior, but the second one's behavior would probably be considered cheap or tacky by many people - although in that person's eyes, if you ask them, they'd probably say they're "just getting their money's worth". I would agree with others above that your friend's behavior is cheap/tacky but not unethical or illegal (which the word "stealing" or "untrustworthy" would imply).
posted by treehorn+bunny at 8:30 PM on October 24, 2013 [5 favorites]
Consider the difference between a person who stays at a hotel and then brings home the opened bottles of toiletries because they might as well get used up, and a person who stays at the same hotel and cleans out the toiletries every day so they can accumulate a stash to bring home with them, scouts the room for other freebies such as a sewing kit or the pen and pad of paper or postcards (with no plans to use any of these things during the trip), and calls the front desk to ask for a complimentary toothbrush and comb (which most hotels will give to you for no additional charge, if you tell them you've forgotten yours). Both of these hotel guests are operating within the bounds of accepted behavior, but the second one's behavior would probably be considered cheap or tacky by many people - although in that person's eyes, if you ask them, they'd probably say they're "just getting their money's worth". I would agree with others above that your friend's behavior is cheap/tacky but not unethical or illegal (which the word "stealing" or "untrustworthy" would imply).
posted by treehorn+bunny at 8:30 PM on October 24, 2013 [5 favorites]
Response by poster: Thanks to everyone who weighed in on this. You all really helped me put this into perspective. It was an exhausting weekend, the job was physically exhausting, and I think I was getting more and more uneasy about everything that she was doing, but I didn't really have the time or the energy to examine it. Once everything was done, the soap discovery was kinda the icing on the cake. I would not treat a friend in the way she was treating me so yes, our ideas of friendship obviously differ and it is probably for the best that I let this work related friendship go.
posted by WalkerWestridge at 10:29 PM on October 24, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by WalkerWestridge at 10:29 PM on October 24, 2013 [3 favorites]
Best answer: You are supposed to take the soap and shampoo in your hotel room. You are not supposed to take more than your fair share of the soap and shampoo in your hotel room, not because it is theft, but because it is tacky. Up to a certain point however, you are only taking your fair share, because it is a business and you have paid for your fair share of these items. It is not really up to the business to dictate how you should use items that they sell to you.
You are supposed to help yourself to whatever your host has said you should help yourself to. You are not supposed to use this as an opportunity to stock up on your own household supplies, because after a certain point it is theft, and up to that point it is taking advantage of your host's generosity. It's an overt sign of treating a supposed friend like a resource. If you tell your friends to help themselves to whatever out of the fridge, that is supposed to mean they can pour a glass of your finest champagne - they probably should have the sense not to make a beeline for the most expensive item in the fridge which you might have been saving for something and which does not keep for long after opening, but you as the host told them to do it, so you better be prepared for them to take you at your word. If, instead of opening and pouring the champagne you told them to help themselves to from your fridge, they put the bottle in their bag to take home with them and you only realized later that it was missing, they still technically did what you told them to, but they are breaking the spirit of the law of hospitality. Drinking the champagne with you is an occasion between friends, taking the unopened bottle home with them is raiding the refrigerator and is a transaction that excludes the host as a person.
If you accept a friend's generosity you avoid doing anything that makes it look like the resource exchange is more important than the friend, and that is why raiding the soap supply made the OP feel like a hotel and that is why it was tasteless. The soap itself is irrelevant, most of us would give our friends soap, champagne, or even money at the drop of a hat, but our friends in general are careful to show that they don't reduce us to a source of these things. This one incident is part of a larger pattern of behaviour where a supposed friend of the OP went through an entire weekend treating other people like resources, and now the OP feels like she is just another resource and not a friend and she is probably right.
posted by tel3path at 1:47 AM on October 25, 2013 [6 favorites]
You are supposed to help yourself to whatever your host has said you should help yourself to. You are not supposed to use this as an opportunity to stock up on your own household supplies, because after a certain point it is theft, and up to that point it is taking advantage of your host's generosity. It's an overt sign of treating a supposed friend like a resource. If you tell your friends to help themselves to whatever out of the fridge, that is supposed to mean they can pour a glass of your finest champagne - they probably should have the sense not to make a beeline for the most expensive item in the fridge which you might have been saving for something and which does not keep for long after opening, but you as the host told them to do it, so you better be prepared for them to take you at your word. If, instead of opening and pouring the champagne you told them to help themselves to from your fridge, they put the bottle in their bag to take home with them and you only realized later that it was missing, they still technically did what you told them to, but they are breaking the spirit of the law of hospitality. Drinking the champagne with you is an occasion between friends, taking the unopened bottle home with them is raiding the refrigerator and is a transaction that excludes the host as a person.
If you accept a friend's generosity you avoid doing anything that makes it look like the resource exchange is more important than the friend, and that is why raiding the soap supply made the OP feel like a hotel and that is why it was tasteless. The soap itself is irrelevant, most of us would give our friends soap, champagne, or even money at the drop of a hat, but our friends in general are careful to show that they don't reduce us to a source of these things. This one incident is part of a larger pattern of behaviour where a supposed friend of the OP went through an entire weekend treating other people like resources, and now the OP feels like she is just another resource and not a friend and she is probably right.
posted by tel3path at 1:47 AM on October 25, 2013 [6 favorites]
Some folks are speculating that she behaves like this because she is having financial difficulties, but I doubt that's really her problem: if that *was* the case, I suspect she'd be more likely to try to HIDE the situation by, for example, quietly eating the food she brought rather than bring it to everyone's attention by pouting and fussing until someone buys her dinner. No, she's not broke: she's a user, and she feels perfectly justified in having other people pay for her housing, her commute, her clothing, her food and toiletries and and and.... Cut her off: no more free hotel rooms, free rides, free clothes or food or anything else. Remain friendly with her, sure, but ONLY at work itself, not outside of it.
As for her (or anyone else) staying in your home because she lives an hour and a half away: tough, she can drive herself. LOTS of people have regular, every-single-day commutes that are that long; my own averages an hour and a quarter --- it's my choice to live where I do, just as it's OP's colleague's choice to live where *she* does.
posted by easily confused at 3:01 AM on October 25, 2013 [7 favorites]
As for her (or anyone else) staying in your home because she lives an hour and a half away: tough, she can drive herself. LOTS of people have regular, every-single-day commutes that are that long; my own averages an hour and a quarter --- it's my choice to live where I do, just as it's OP's colleague's choice to live where *she* does.
posted by easily confused at 3:01 AM on October 25, 2013 [7 favorites]
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I'd forget about the soap - write it off as "she must need it more than I do" (after all, they've been sitting there for over a year unused, right?). You made the right call telling her future visits won't be possible. Don't get sucked into buying her things or giving her access to your home. It sounds like it would be good to establish some distance from her.
posted by amaire at 5:21 PM on October 23, 2013 [64 favorites]