Please remember how to cat!
June 18, 2013 8:28 AM Subscribe
Why is my one kitten such an idiot about the litter box? It's not that she's got a litter box aversion, and she's not sick, it just seems that she hasn't figured out which end the poop comes out!
We have two cats, Leo and Clara. Leo, the boy, is just about a year, and aside from being a brat to his sister at least once a day, he's pretty much problem free. Uses the litter box with no problems, though he occasionally scoops a bit of litter out of the box when he's trying to clean up. I view that as one of the occupational hazards of owning cats, so no big deal there. He's also one of the most social and affectionate cats I've ever met, which is nice.
Clara, the girl, is the problem. She's about nine months, and though she never goes anywhere but the litter box, her use of the litter box is. . . problematic. Urination is no problem, so far. But defecation? I've watched her do this. She carefully scoops out a little hole in the litter, then puts her front paws in it, and just poops wherever her hind end winds up pointing. Sometimes this is in the litter box. But a lot of the time she's got her front paws in the middle of the litter box, which means her back end is hanging out, and poop goes all over the floor. If it's out the back, she just leaves it, but if it's out the front, she, being a good little kitty, scoops an enormous amount of litter after it so as to cover it up. Thanks, cat. Thanks for that.
Does anyone have a solution other than getting a different, bigger, litter box?
We have two cats, Leo and Clara. Leo, the boy, is just about a year, and aside from being a brat to his sister at least once a day, he's pretty much problem free. Uses the litter box with no problems, though he occasionally scoops a bit of litter out of the box when he's trying to clean up. I view that as one of the occupational hazards of owning cats, so no big deal there. He's also one of the most social and affectionate cats I've ever met, which is nice.
Clara, the girl, is the problem. She's about nine months, and though she never goes anywhere but the litter box, her use of the litter box is. . . problematic. Urination is no problem, so far. But defecation? I've watched her do this. She carefully scoops out a little hole in the litter, then puts her front paws in it, and just poops wherever her hind end winds up pointing. Sometimes this is in the litter box. But a lot of the time she's got her front paws in the middle of the litter box, which means her back end is hanging out, and poop goes all over the floor. If it's out the back, she just leaves it, but if it's out the front, she, being a good little kitty, scoops an enormous amount of litter after it so as to cover it up. Thanks, cat. Thanks for that.
Does anyone have a solution other than getting a different, bigger, litter box?
I'm not a cat person at all so please disregard if this is some cat-behavior faux pas. Can you be nearby when she is using the litter box and just as she starts to put her front paws in the hole, pick her up and turn her around 180 degrees so the right end is over the hole? Maybe if this happens enough times, she'll do it on her own.
posted by Beti at 8:38 AM on June 18, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Beti at 8:38 AM on June 18, 2013 [1 favorite]
You could try putting the litter box against a wall in a corner with something beside it, so there is a better chance of her having her derriere inside of the box in order to poop. With three sides blocked off, she will only 'fail' in that one direction, at least!
I wonder if she would be more likely to get in the box all the way if you had some catnip or something hanging over the middle of the box for a while?
Multiple litter boxes are also a standard answer here, but I don't think that'll help with your specific problem.
If you want to post a pic of your kittens, we will all Ooh and Ahhh accordingly.
posted by misha at 8:39 AM on June 18, 2013 [2 favorites]
I wonder if she would be more likely to get in the box all the way if you had some catnip or something hanging over the middle of the box for a while?
Multiple litter boxes are also a standard answer here, but I don't think that'll help with your specific problem.
If you want to post a pic of your kittens, we will all Ooh and Ahhh accordingly.
posted by misha at 8:39 AM on June 18, 2013 [2 favorites]
Best answer: One of my cats is a flinger, who enjoys then using the little mound of litter outside the box. We made high sided litter boxes by cutting a small opening in the front of a 30 gallon rubbermaid box, then stuck the lid in front of the opening. While this doesn't solve your problem, it certainly will make keeping the area clean a lot easier.
You can get litter boxes where the cat climbs in from above, but in my house stalking girls in the litter box is a fun game, and so it is a no go. But it could work for you.
posted by florencetnoa at 8:39 AM on June 18, 2013
You can get litter boxes where the cat climbs in from above, but in my house stalking girls in the litter box is a fun game, and so it is a no go. But it could work for you.
posted by florencetnoa at 8:39 AM on June 18, 2013
It's hard to do this consistently, but have you tried correcting her in the moment? As soon as possible after she digs her hole, pick her up and turn her around so her back end is over the hole. She may not like being disturbed during her bathroom break, but just maybe she'll realize "hey it's so easy to cover when it's in the hole I just dug!" and something will click.
...on preview, ditto Beti.
posted by trivia genius at 8:39 AM on June 18, 2013 [1 favorite]
...on preview, ditto Beti.
posted by trivia genius at 8:39 AM on June 18, 2013 [1 favorite]
I know you mentioned at the end that you're looking for a solution other than a different, bigger, litter box...which kind of puts a damper on my immediate thought of getting a covered box (that's perhaps somewhat more roomy).
But if a new box is out of the question, perhaps use a cardboard box to set up barriers?
posted by samsara at 8:41 AM on June 18, 2013 [2 favorites]
But if a new box is out of the question, perhaps use a cardboard box to set up barriers?
posted by samsara at 8:41 AM on June 18, 2013 [2 favorites]
I had a cat like that and had to get a covered cat box. Covered on three sides and just a hole to enter/exit. Kept it in the box then!
But some cats don't like to use these ...
And, it is usually recommended to cat owners to keep a well-maintained (as in, scooped daily or even more often) cat litter pan PER CAT.
posted by bebrave! at 8:43 AM on June 18, 2013
But some cats don't like to use these ...
And, it is usually recommended to cat owners to keep a well-maintained (as in, scooped daily or even more often) cat litter pan PER CAT.
posted by bebrave! at 8:43 AM on June 18, 2013
Try a top-entry litter box. I made one out of a big Rubbermaid storage bin -- just cut a hole in the lid with a box-cutter. Even my dumb cat figured it out with no problems. They both like sticking their heads out the top and looking around while they poop, which is pretty entertaining.
I know this doesn't meet your criteria of different litter box, but at least it's not really bigger? And it's cheap!
posted by baby beluga at 8:45 AM on June 18, 2013 [4 favorites]
I know this doesn't meet your criteria of different litter box, but at least it's not really bigger? And it's cheap!
posted by baby beluga at 8:45 AM on June 18, 2013 [4 favorites]
High-sided litterboxes or a covered box if she's okay with that, but... my middle cat can be weird about using the litter because she likes to stand up as high as she can (and therefore wouldn't use a covered box) - is there anything obstructing her position or her view in the box? She could be trying to make sure she can't be ambushed by her brother.
I would also get two more boxes - current wisdom is actually C+1 (where C is the number of cats in your home).
posted by Nyx at 8:47 AM on June 18, 2013
I would also get two more boxes - current wisdom is actually C+1 (where C is the number of cats in your home).
posted by Nyx at 8:47 AM on June 18, 2013
If she's at all skittish, I would worry about correcting her in the act. She might associate the litter box with correction and decide to avoid it altogether.
I have the Booda Dome litter box that I got to reduce litter tracking. It might help Clara's wayward poops. But I tend to agree with earlier answers, a second box might be the better solution.
posted by gladly at 8:52 AM on June 18, 2013
I have the Booda Dome litter box that I got to reduce litter tracking. It might help Clara's wayward poops. But I tend to agree with earlier answers, a second box might be the better solution.
posted by gladly at 8:52 AM on June 18, 2013
Yeah, top entry box solves a lot of problems. You can homebrew your own or buy a pre-made one like the Clever Cat.
posted by charmedimsure at 8:55 AM on June 18, 2013
posted by charmedimsure at 8:55 AM on June 18, 2013
You really should get a covered box. My male cat is like this (and will piss over the edge of the box, to boot) and the best solution has been a diy litterbox like this (readymade ones have seams where the pee drips out, but since she's okay with peeing, you might be fine. Still, this is a cheaper solution.)
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 8:55 AM on June 18, 2013
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 8:55 AM on June 18, 2013
Response by poster: Maybe she's picking up on Leo's scent in the box and doesn't want to go near it.
I don't really think that's it. She has no problem peeing in the box, and we've never really had problems about them going places other than the box.
As far as the two cats go, she gets annoyed at him when he's too aggressive about playing, but it's hard to feel too bad for her as at least half the time she's the one who starts things. They sleep together most of the time. So it might not be a bad idea to get a second box, but I have a sneaking suspicion that we'd just wind up with two areas of poop to clean up. :P
You could try putting the litter box against a wall in a corner with something beside it, so there is a better chance of her having her derriere inside of the box in order to poop. With three sides blocked off, she will only 'fail' in that one direction, at least!
This is a good idea, but it's the first thing I tried. The box is against two walls, and those two are the ones most likely to have a fail, the little moron.
posted by valkyryn at 8:58 AM on June 18, 2013
I don't really think that's it. She has no problem peeing in the box, and we've never really had problems about them going places other than the box.
As far as the two cats go, she gets annoyed at him when he's too aggressive about playing, but it's hard to feel too bad for her as at least half the time she's the one who starts things. They sleep together most of the time. So it might not be a bad idea to get a second box, but I have a sneaking suspicion that we'd just wind up with two areas of poop to clean up. :P
You could try putting the litter box against a wall in a corner with something beside it, so there is a better chance of her having her derriere inside of the box in order to poop. With three sides blocked off, she will only 'fail' in that one direction, at least!
This is a good idea, but it's the first thing I tried. The box is against two walls, and those two are the ones most likely to have a fail, the little moron.
posted by valkyryn at 8:58 AM on June 18, 2013
I had to use a hooded litter box when I had a cat who was not real bright (super sweet, though) and abnormally long. He just had no idea where his ass was in relation to his face. And yes, he would poop right up against the inside of the box, smear it all over. Piss all over it too. Better the box than the floor.
A friend of mine who has a lot of cats and fosters a lot of cats uses large Rubbermaid bins (the solid-colored ones) with a door cut in one end. Easier to wash, since you're not dealing with a seam.
posted by Lyn Never at 8:58 AM on June 18, 2013 [1 favorite]
A friend of mine who has a lot of cats and fosters a lot of cats uses large Rubbermaid bins (the solid-colored ones) with a door cut in one end. Easier to wash, since you're not dealing with a seam.
posted by Lyn Never at 8:58 AM on June 18, 2013 [1 favorite]
I would suggest a top-entry box as noted above. Then she really has no choice. It's also perhaps possible she doesn't like the litter. Or that she doesn't like the smell and wants to place it outside the box where she knows you'll get rid of it right away.
posted by bleep at 9:05 AM on June 18, 2013
posted by bleep at 9:05 AM on June 18, 2013
If you do decide to go with a top-entry box, beware that YMMV as far as your kitties knowing what to do with it right away. When I bought one for my kitty, I assumed she'd know what to do (the wisdom I saw was mix some of the old litter with the new litter in the new box, and she'll detect her own smell and know where to go), and she ended up peeing in her bed as a result.
After that false start, I set a disposable, regular box on top of the new, top-entry box, got her used to jumping up to potty, and then and only then removed the disposable box. The whole process took about two weeks.
As far as Clara's behavior - with my kitty, poop problems without corresponding pee problems = "Mom, I'm irritated about something." (For example, the time I bought a LitterMaid.) So the second box solution might address her problem if she's irritated about space-sharing. On the other hand, Clara could just be a wee bit dim, and maybe if that's what you think, a top-entry would work better. :)
posted by sevensnowflakes at 9:17 AM on June 18, 2013
After that false start, I set a disposable, regular box on top of the new, top-entry box, got her used to jumping up to potty, and then and only then removed the disposable box. The whole process took about two weeks.
As far as Clara's behavior - with my kitty, poop problems without corresponding pee problems = "Mom, I'm irritated about something." (For example, the time I bought a LitterMaid.) So the second box solution might address her problem if she's irritated about space-sharing. On the other hand, Clara could just be a wee bit dim, and maybe if that's what you think, a top-entry would work better. :)
posted by sevensnowflakes at 9:17 AM on June 18, 2013
Top entry box or a larger box. I know someone that uses one of those under the bed storage boxes on rollers for her litter tray as her cat is a little special like yours, it's not that much larger than a normal tray but it is long enough that it solves the butt hanging over the edge problem. It takes a lot more litter, but then if you scoop it lasts longer too.
posted by wwax at 9:19 AM on June 18, 2013
posted by wwax at 9:19 AM on June 18, 2013
My cat is picky about litter... I tried all sorts of "environmentally friendly" pine litter etc, and my cat would use it for a day or two and then pee on the bed. I had to switch back to regular clumping litter because the pine was too strong for her little nose. So, maybe consider using an unscented litter? Also agreeing that a domed litter box might help, with a higher step-in so he has to ge in the box to dig. In the meantime, maybe you could fashion a dome or cover out of cardboard?
posted by absquatulate at 9:19 AM on June 18, 2013
posted by absquatulate at 9:19 AM on June 18, 2013
We replaced our two litterboxes with top-entry ones, but removed the "top" so all we have are the high walls. (One of the cats was freaking out about being completely enclosed.) Completely eliminated issues with litter and poop flinging.
At one point we decided to try a regular litterbox again, and it was so clearly not happening. We went back to the taller top-entry version.
posted by Tequila Mockingbird at 9:20 AM on June 18, 2013
At one point we decided to try a regular litterbox again, and it was so clearly not happening. We went back to the taller top-entry version.
posted by Tequila Mockingbird at 9:20 AM on June 18, 2013
Response by poster: pre-poop intervention/re-orientation.
I like that idea, and I've done it before with okay results, but we probably only see the cats do their business like 10% of the time, so I'm dubious that I could get decent results that way. I think it's probably best to just deal with it.
>Clara could just be a wee bit dim
Neither of our cats are winning any intelligence contests, that's for sure.
I'm liking the Rubbermaid idea. I think we can skip the lid, as they're not used to that and the space where the box is located doesn't really need a cover. So maybe instead of a hole in the side, we just cut a cat-sized notch out of one end. It's certainly one of the cheaper options. I'll give it a shot and see what we can come up with.
posted by valkyryn at 9:25 AM on June 18, 2013
I like that idea, and I've done it before with okay results, but we probably only see the cats do their business like 10% of the time, so I'm dubious that I could get decent results that way. I think it's probably best to just deal with it.
>Clara could just be a wee bit dim
Neither of our cats are winning any intelligence contests, that's for sure.
I'm liking the Rubbermaid idea. I think we can skip the lid, as they're not used to that and the space where the box is located doesn't really need a cover. So maybe instead of a hole in the side, we just cut a cat-sized notch out of one end. It's certainly one of the cheaper options. I'll give it a shot and see what we can come up with.
posted by valkyryn at 9:25 AM on June 18, 2013
Our little Signy had issues going in the box as well - one thing we did to at least help with the cleanup was to put puppy pee mats underneath the catboxes. That way, if there was an accident, it happened on the pee mat, and not on the floor.
posted by LN at 9:36 AM on June 18, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by LN at 9:36 AM on June 18, 2013 [1 favorite]
If you're going to get a mat to put underneath/outside the cat box, I'd recommend avoiding this one:
http://www.amazon.com/Petmate-Litter-Catcher-Extra-Large/dp/B000I1PJWA
My cats, who have never ever peed outside the litterbox otherwise, strongly preferred peeing on the mat than in the litter box. A few other reviewers on Amazon have said the same thing happened to their cats, too. :/
posted by Juffo-Wup at 10:26 AM on June 18, 2013
http://www.amazon.com/Petmate-Litter-Catcher-Extra-Large/dp/B000I1PJWA
My cats, who have never ever peed outside the litterbox otherwise, strongly preferred peeing on the mat than in the litter box. A few other reviewers on Amazon have said the same thing happened to their cats, too. :/
posted by Juffo-Wup at 10:26 AM on June 18, 2013
I'm liking the Rubbermaid idea. I think we can skip the lid, as they're not used to that and the space where the box is located doesn't really need a cover. So maybe instead of a hole in the side, we just cut a cat-sized notch out of one end. It's certainly one of the cheaper options. I'll give it a shot and see what we can come up with.
That's exactly what I was going to recommend.
Another thing you could experiment with: there's a certain type of cheap litter-catching mat—I think it's this one—that my cats don't like the feel of under their paws. They will leap across it or walk quickly. Maybe if there's something like that outside the "door" to the litterbox, something that Clara dislikes the feel of, it will encourage her to pull her hind end all the way into the box? Of course you don't want a mat so offensive to her that she refuses to cross it and eliminates outside the litter box instead.
posted by Orinda at 10:43 AM on June 18, 2013
That's exactly what I was going to recommend.
Another thing you could experiment with: there's a certain type of cheap litter-catching mat—I think it's this one—that my cats don't like the feel of under their paws. They will leap across it or walk quickly. Maybe if there's something like that outside the "door" to the litterbox, something that Clara dislikes the feel of, it will encourage her to pull her hind end all the way into the box? Of course you don't want a mat so offensive to her that she refuses to cross it and eliminates outside the litter box instead.
posted by Orinda at 10:43 AM on June 18, 2013
I had a cat that did this her entire life. I just put newspaper around the litter box.
posted by interplanetjanet at 10:46 AM on June 18, 2013
posted by interplanetjanet at 10:46 AM on June 18, 2013
If you don't cut a notch, she can't stck her butt out of the box.
posted by bleep at 11:19 AM on June 18, 2013
posted by bleep at 11:19 AM on June 18, 2013
My Georgie used to do this. I got a covered litter box, they sell them as a set in the pet store, and it fixed the problem. She never had any issues with the cover and she was a large size cat.
posted by dottiechang at 11:47 AM on June 18, 2013
posted by dottiechang at 11:47 AM on June 18, 2013
Our older cat likes to perch on the edge of the box as she does her business, and is not that great about aim. We ended up just putting puppy pads on the floor outside the box to catch the spillage, and straightening them out every so often as she helpfully rucks them up when scratching to cover.
(We'd tried the top-entry boxes, but ended up hating scooping them out, and the cats weren't thrilled about them, either, so we ended up going for the Breeze system instead.)
posted by telophase at 12:12 PM on June 18, 2013
(We'd tried the top-entry boxes, but ended up hating scooping them out, and the cats weren't thrilled about them, either, so we ended up going for the Breeze system instead.)
posted by telophase at 12:12 PM on June 18, 2013
I had a cat who hung her business end outside the box, so I put the litter in a dishpan with high sides and the dishpan in the typical large, low-sided litter box, with no litter in the 2nd one. She eventually figured it out, but we always stuck with the high-sided litterbox anyway.
posted by theora55 at 12:25 PM on June 18, 2013
posted by theora55 at 12:25 PM on June 18, 2013
I have two big long cats and I buy underbed boxes to use as litter boxes. They are shallow enough that there's no need to cut holes in the sides at all. Takes a lot of litter to fill them and they live in their own closet to keep them contained, but having enough space to "go" in has diminshed the pooping over the side to almost never. Makes us all happier.
posted by monopas at 12:34 PM on June 18, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by monopas at 12:34 PM on June 18, 2013 [1 favorite]
If you do get a rubbermaid box, cut the 'door' so the bottom is at least halfway up. That way she'll be forced to get into the box instead of hanging her butt out. Unless she wants to dangle by her belly with her hind feet not touching the floor--hey, cats are weird.
posted by BlueHorse at 1:07 PM on June 18, 2013
posted by BlueHorse at 1:07 PM on June 18, 2013
Maybe she doesn't like the feel of the litter on her paws.
posted by MexicanYenta at 2:11 PM on June 18, 2013
posted by MexicanYenta at 2:11 PM on June 18, 2013
Another tip if you're going the rubbermaid box route, cut the "door" opening into one corner of the box instead of cutting it into one of the sides. After she climbs in, she will naturally re-orient herself to be parallel to the sides, which means her butt will be facing solid wall and not hanging out through the opening. Our cats are getting old and are now closer to standing rather than squatting when they pee, so this helped immensely in reducing the amount of spillage we were getting.
posted by platinum at 3:34 PM on June 18, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by platinum at 3:34 PM on June 18, 2013 [2 favorites]
We had a domed litter box that had a half-spiral ramp leading into the sand tray. Once any of your feet were in the sand, you coud not fail to shit in the box. Maybe on the ramp, but never, ever on the floor. It was purple.
posted by toodleydoodley at 4:10 PM on June 18, 2013
posted by toodleydoodley at 4:10 PM on June 18, 2013
Covered litter box for the win. It'd solve the bigger problem (Clara hanging her butt over the side) and the smaller one (Leo scattering the litter outside of the box).
posted by easily confused at 4:58 PM on June 18, 2013
posted by easily confused at 4:58 PM on June 18, 2013
We had a domed litter box that had a half-spiral ramp leading into the sand tray. . . . It was purple.
I'm pretty sure toodleydoodley is thinking of the Booda Clean Step Litter Dome (google it).
I read somewhere—I thought it was on Ask Metafilter, but I can't find it again now—that top-entry litter boxes or high-sided boxes with no entryway notch put a lot of strain on cats' hind leg joints, because it is hard for them to push off of the soft surface of the litter pile in order to jump out. (Like riding a bike through deep, soft sand versus riding it on pavement.) You want them to be able to just step out.
posted by Orinda at 5:23 PM on June 18, 2013
I'm pretty sure toodleydoodley is thinking of the Booda Clean Step Litter Dome (google it).
I read somewhere—I thought it was on Ask Metafilter, but I can't find it again now—that top-entry litter boxes or high-sided boxes with no entryway notch put a lot of strain on cats' hind leg joints, because it is hard for them to push off of the soft surface of the litter pile in order to jump out. (Like riding a bike through deep, soft sand versus riding it on pavement.) You want them to be able to just step out.
posted by Orinda at 5:23 PM on June 18, 2013
Yes, get a giant Rubbermaid bin, 18+ gallons, and cut a notch or hole in it for the cats to go into. It will not only force her to poop inside the box, but it greatly reduces any litter that's flung outside the box.
posted by Anonymous at 5:42 PM on June 18, 2013
posted by Anonymous at 5:42 PM on June 18, 2013
Best answer: Alright, proposed solution:
Three eighteen-gallon containers, stacked together, all with a notch cut out of one end about eight inches across and eight inches deep. The top one will also have a bunch of 1/4" holes drilled in the bottom turning it into a sieve. That way, I can just pull that out, trapping the business and straining out the "clean" litter. Dump the business into a bag and put the sieve in the empty container. Wash out the most recently-used one and stick it back under the other two once it dries. Lid will be optional. We'll start without to give them a chance to get used to the new box, then try it to see if they like it.
That's basically the system I was already using, only the containers are only about six-odd inches deep, which lets Clara stick her butt over the edge. But I love not having to fish around the litter box with a scoop, so I'm going to try recreating that system with the larger containers.
I'll let you know how it goes.
posted by valkyryn at 4:39 AM on June 20, 2013 [1 favorite]
Three eighteen-gallon containers, stacked together, all with a notch cut out of one end about eight inches across and eight inches deep. The top one will also have a bunch of 1/4" holes drilled in the bottom turning it into a sieve. That way, I can just pull that out, trapping the business and straining out the "clean" litter. Dump the business into a bag and put the sieve in the empty container. Wash out the most recently-used one and stick it back under the other two once it dries. Lid will be optional. We'll start without to give them a chance to get used to the new box, then try it to see if they like it.
That's basically the system I was already using, only the containers are only about six-odd inches deep, which lets Clara stick her butt over the edge. But I love not having to fish around the litter box with a scoop, so I'm going to try recreating that system with the larger containers.
I'll let you know how it goes.
posted by valkyryn at 4:39 AM on June 20, 2013 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Works like a charm! I drilled 5/16" holes rather than 1/4", and it took about 200 of them, but the sieve works beautifully. And no more errant poops!
Thanks guys.
posted by valkyryn at 4:31 AM on June 22, 2013 [1 favorite]
Thanks guys.
posted by valkyryn at 4:31 AM on June 22, 2013 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:35 AM on June 18, 2013 [2 favorites]