Recourse for destruction of property
December 10, 2012 1:52 PM Subscribe
My landlord threw away some of my stuff, most importantly my orthodontic retainer, before I had a chance to get it. This was before the date they told me to be out of there. What recourse do I have?
I just called my orthodontist and a new retainer is going to cost $440. I am determined to make the landlord pay for this. Y'all are not my lawyers, I know, but what recourse do I have here? I have a tiny bit of leverage in that I never returned my keys to the place (and I was never contacted about this either), so I was thinking of writing to him and saying something along the lines of "I will return my keys to the place--if you pay for my new retainer".
For what it's worth this was in Alameda county, California.
I just called my orthodontist and a new retainer is going to cost $440. I am determined to make the landlord pay for this. Y'all are not my lawyers, I know, but what recourse do I have here? I have a tiny bit of leverage in that I never returned my keys to the place (and I was never contacted about this either), so I was thinking of writing to him and saying something along the lines of "I will return my keys to the place--if you pay for my new retainer".
For what it's worth this was in Alameda county, California.
This post was deleted for the following reason: poster's request -- jessamyn
My uninformed guess is that if you even try to hold the keys over his head, so to speak, he'll change the locks. He might do it between tenants anyway.
I'd go to small claims (or, on preview, a tenant's org would be even better). Do you have everything (i.e., date to be out, contact with them re: your stuff being thrown out) in writing?
posted by supercres at 2:00 PM on December 10, 2012 [4 favorites]
I'd go to small claims (or, on preview, a tenant's org would be even better). Do you have everything (i.e., date to be out, contact with them re: your stuff being thrown out) in writing?
posted by supercres at 2:00 PM on December 10, 2012 [4 favorites]
Echoing supercres, both that this sounds like something for small claims court and also about not trying to hold the keys over his head.
Some legal/tenant resources:
Oakland Tenants Union
If you are low-income, Causa Justa
posted by needs more cowbell at 2:04 PM on December 10, 2012
Some legal/tenant resources:
Oakland Tenants Union
If you are low-income, Causa Justa
posted by needs more cowbell at 2:04 PM on December 10, 2012
It is a horrid idea to try to extort payment for a new retainer out of your landlord.
There is clearly more going on here than you are alluding to. Landlords generally do not randomly throw away tenant property. It is a huge area of liability for them, and it takes work.
Were you evicted? If so, who is the "they" referred to in "the date they told me to be out of there" and how was that information communicated to you?
Were you terminating your lease? If so, again, how was this information communicated to you, and what does your lease say about ending the lease?
posted by saeculorum at 2:08 PM on December 10, 2012 [7 favorites]
There is clearly more going on here than you are alluding to. Landlords generally do not randomly throw away tenant property. It is a huge area of liability for them, and it takes work.
Were you evicted? If so, who is the "they" referred to in "the date they told me to be out of there" and how was that information communicated to you?
Were you terminating your lease? If so, again, how was this information communicated to you, and what does your lease say about ending the lease?
posted by saeculorum at 2:08 PM on December 10, 2012 [7 favorites]
Depending on where you are, there are generally laws regarding what a landlord may or may not do. And, generally speaking, they must give you a fair chance to get your stuff before it is legally seen as abandoned, at which point they have a right to throw it away. And this is, in part, going to depend on what they communicated with you, and what you communicated with them. If they told you you have until a certain date to collect your stuff, then you may have until then, PLUS whatever amount of time local law says you have until you have abandoned it.
The keys don't really make a difference. But get legal advice -- there probably is a tenant's group that can offer that pro bono or for a small fee. If they threw out your stuff without doing legally, they must reimburse you the current value of the stuff they threw out -- which means, for instance, with clothes, you cannot charge them what you paid, but instead what you could resell the clothes for. With a medical item, it might be different, because they don't really have a resell value, and $440 is what it will cost to replace it.
Make a list of everything you lost, and put its original value next to it. Call a tenants association. Then take all this to small claims. Small claims judges are pretty good at doing back of the envelope math to figure put how much you are owed.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 2:11 PM on December 10, 2012 [1 favorite]
The keys don't really make a difference. But get legal advice -- there probably is a tenant's group that can offer that pro bono or for a small fee. If they threw out your stuff without doing legally, they must reimburse you the current value of the stuff they threw out -- which means, for instance, with clothes, you cannot charge them what you paid, but instead what you could resell the clothes for. With a medical item, it might be different, because they don't really have a resell value, and $440 is what it will cost to replace it.
Make a list of everything you lost, and put its original value next to it. Call a tenants association. Then take all this to small claims. Small claims judges are pretty good at doing back of the envelope math to figure put how much you are owed.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 2:11 PM on December 10, 2012 [1 favorite]
This was before the date they told me to be out of there.
What date does your LEASE say and until what date was your rent paid?
posted by DarlingBri at 2:25 PM on December 10, 2012
What date does your LEASE say and until what date was your rent paid?
posted by DarlingBri at 2:25 PM on December 10, 2012
If you were still a tenant and still under lease and the landlord had not informed you that s/he'd be coming to empty the place out, I'd call the police and get a police report on what was stolen.
Do you have renter's insurance? Is this less than the deductible?
posted by sciencegeek at 2:30 PM on December 10, 2012 [4 favorites]
Do you have renter's insurance? Is this less than the deductible?
posted by sciencegeek at 2:30 PM on December 10, 2012 [4 favorites]
I dunno about the rest of it, but any landlord worth anything changes locks between tenants. You could have who knows how many copies made of your keys; returning them doesn't guarantee anything for the next tenant. Asking for them back is a way some landlords still use to establish a particular date you were out, but it's not something everyone does and your keys don't give you any bargaining power here, no.
posted by gracedissolved at 2:32 PM on December 10, 2012
posted by gracedissolved at 2:32 PM on December 10, 2012
Before anything else happens, you must somehow get him to admit that he threw out your retainer and get him to admit this in front of a witness.
Courts only care about proof, and your landlord might say that he didn't do it--that you must have misplaced it, in which case you are out of luck.
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 2:45 PM on December 10, 2012
Courts only care about proof, and your landlord might say that he didn't do it--that you must have misplaced it, in which case you are out of luck.
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 2:45 PM on December 10, 2012
I CANNOT speak about California, but I work for a legal clinic in Ontario, Canada that does a lot of tenant's rights.
As such, I don't want to say anything that's more than insectosaurus and needs more cowbell have said, because I'm going to import my own law into thinking about yours. Contact a legal clinic / tenant's rights group. They're good at this stuff.
That being said, at least here (and I would very much expect in California as well), keeping the keys means that you have not officially given them "vacant possession", aka you haven't legally moved out. Which means that (depending on the law down there, I dunno) there is a very real possibility they could attempt to charge you for rent after the move-out date that existed, if you still have keys (you're an "overholding" tenant, in other words).
Keys are dangerous, dangerous leverage to use.
posted by Lemurrhea at 2:46 PM on December 10, 2012
As such, I don't want to say anything that's more than insectosaurus and needs more cowbell have said, because I'm going to import my own law into thinking about yours. Contact a legal clinic / tenant's rights group. They're good at this stuff.
That being said, at least here (and I would very much expect in California as well), keeping the keys means that you have not officially given them "vacant possession", aka you haven't legally moved out. Which means that (depending on the law down there, I dunno) there is a very real possibility they could attempt to charge you for rent after the move-out date that existed, if you still have keys (you're an "overholding" tenant, in other words).
Keys are dangerous, dangerous leverage to use.
posted by Lemurrhea at 2:46 PM on December 10, 2012
Did you get an abandoned property notice? It looks California law gives you 15 days (or 18 if mailed) to get your stuff per this handy pdf from the California Realtors Association
posted by vespabelle at 2:47 PM on December 10, 2012
posted by vespabelle at 2:47 PM on December 10, 2012
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posted by insectosaurus at 1:58 PM on December 10, 2012