Near Death Experience and Science

February 6, 2012 8:29 PM

How do you explain near death experiences?

It's really been bothering me because I'm scared of death. I'm scared of me or someone I love dying short of life or in pain. I wish for everyone to have a long, happy, and healthy life. More so, I'm scared that there will be no after-life. My dad is Buddhist and my mom is Catholic. I was raised to be Catholic but I feel that I've been Agnostic for the last 3 years.

Though I am agnostic, I can't deny that there could be the possibility of an after-life but I can not be 100% there is one also. I really hope there is one. That is why I've been looking up near death experience stories. How do you explain it? Scientists say it's all CHEMICALS but how do they explain those few that explain what they have seen happened when they are unconscious and eyes closed?

Also, scientists say that near death experiences happen because the brain floods itself with good-feeling chemicals because of the body in shock...but why doesn't EVERYONE feel this? Why do some people feel NDE and some peopel don't? What about those that don't see a "heaven" or "hell"?

Does anyone have any experience? I don't know if there is an after-life, but I sure do hope so. I hope there is a place where you can be with people you love forever.

posted by Asian_Hunnie to Religion & Philosophy (16 answers total)

Maybe everyone does feel that chemical rush, but don't survive to tell about it. We're electric meat.
posted by Ideefixe at 8:41 PM on February 6, 2012 [1 favorite]

Response by poster: That doesn't explain it. There are plenty of people that have been clinically dead or near death but experience none of that light, heaven, tunnel, etc.
posted by Asian_Hunnie at 8:50 PM on February 6, 2012

Why does it have to be an all-or-nothing deal? Some scientists say that love is also a chemical experience, but we don't all fall in love. Couldn't some people simply be "immune" to it?

And actually, I'm not sure what it is exactly you're asking. You seem to be asking about near death experiences, but really seem to be wanting some kind of reassurances about the after-life.

In either case, I'm not sure there's anyone on Mefi who can give you a conclusive answer.
posted by war wrath of wraith at 9:04 PM on February 6, 2012 [1 favorite]

As with a lot of the paranormal stuff out there, you'll find pretty heavy biases in all of the pseudoscientific research being done. Wikipedia strives to be balanced, but I think that leads a lot of people to the wrong idea. For example, in the article about near death experience, the two people who give evidence for the "seen things they can't have seen" argument are a guy whose book came out through a publisher whose stated mission statement is "To be the leader in Christian communications meeting the needs of people with resources that glorify Jesus Christ and promote biblical principles" and another man, who is a medical doctor, but also makes a lot of money and gains a lot of publicity with his ideas about NDEs. An afterlife is a biblical principle to be promoted, and it's something that can make people money - that doesn't mean it's scientifically legitimate.

As far as why it might happen to some people and not others, it could be any number of reasons. If two people fall from the same height, one of them might break a leg and the other might not. If two people get bee stings, one might have an allergic reaction and the other might not. If two people drink X amount of alcohol, one of them might get drunk and the other might not. People are all people, sure, but we're all different, and our bodies can react in different ways to the same stimuli.

I also have a feeling that as someone who "really hope[s] there is" an afterlife, you might be coming to this research with your own biases and you'll likely come to whatever conclusion you want to regardless of its scientific basis or lack thereof.
posted by papayaninja at 9:07 PM on February 6, 2012 [1 favorite]

Yeah, the question is kind of all over the place. Can you clarify precisely what you're looking for? In general, though, it's a good bet that near death experiences are purely chemical and neurological processes in the brain. Are you looking for research to support that? Or what?
posted by Justinian at 9:10 PM on February 6, 2012 [3 favorites]

They're experiencing that event using a device which is malfunctioning.

Why would you expect the resulting report to be consistent or meaningful?
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 9:16 PM on February 6, 2012 [3 favorites]

Well, I don't know if this'll be of any comfort, but death's really just one of those things that you just have to accept. I used to be scared of it when I was younger, and I guess as I got older, that fear just kind of dissipated. I don't know why, though, but speaking generally I think I went from seeing death as unnatural, as something to be avoided, to be kept at bay, whathaveyou... to thinking of it as a part of life, as a part of what makes us human and a part of the universe. Sounds kinda corny, but it's just as well, because you can't fight death, so you might as well accept it, enjoy life and try to make the world better for others. I've lost people very dear to me, and while it really sucks, it only really *acutely* sucks for a relatively short while, and from there your grief transitions to a more complex set of feelings: you start to miss the person, and you can't help but feel grateful for having had them in your life, etc. -- it's tough to describe. Like I said, it sucks, but it's definitely not the end of the world... someday, you'll understand.

Also, I'd just like to say that I really doubt it's possible to approach death scientifically, just as with many other things in life. Sure, I guess you could chalk up NDEs to BRAIN CHEMICALS or certain bundles of neurons firing or whatever, but those kinds of explanations can't rule out any underlying phenomena that we haven't discovered yet -- if it's even possible to discover them. FWIW, as a practicing statistician, part of my job includes being my #1 skeptic and understanding intimately the limits of whatever it's that I'm doing or of the model I'm trying to cobble together, for example. And science really isn't any different in that regard: while it's got limits, it's a very useful tool for building models of the world, but in the end, there's no way to put together *the* perfect model that explains everything that goes on in life, including death. In that way, science's kind of like taking a flashlight into a dark room... you can't illuminate the whole room -- rather, you can shine light on little bits of it, but not much else. Just keep that in mind.
posted by un petit cadeau at 9:47 PM on February 6, 2012 [1 favorite]

Best answer: Aww, you're sweet. Existential angst is normal for everyone.

The best and most sobering way I've ever heard it described (and I think it was someone on metafilter...):

Do you remember how it was before you were born/conceived? That's how it feels after you're gone as well.
posted by GooseOnTheLoose at 11:02 PM on February 6, 2012 [3 favorites]

Response by poster: Well, I'm leaning more towards there being something after life mostly because well...it's more comforting to think about. Not just it being comforting, but even if I try to talk myself into believing that there is no after-life I can't just make myself believe that there isn't one. I'm basically just "unsure and hopeful".

I honestly have experienced some sort of phenomena that can not be explained. It's not death related or spiritual but I guess more so having to do with quantum physics but it's a long story.

I really wish I knew the answer. If there were straight evidence that told me THERE IS NO AFTER LIFE, I think I could learn to accept it and be okay with it...but not knowing and not being 100% in my faith kinda drives me crazy.

Reason why I'm scared to death is because this girl I know has a father dying of cancer and has been given 1 month to live. I feel bad for her and I can't imagine. I don't know what I'd do without my parents and I don't think it's enough to let them know how much they mean to me and how much pain I'd be in. My mom just says, "If you worry then we won't be in peace!" in her mind (she's religious) you have to be okay with the death and be happy for them they are in heaven lol.

My mom has had 2 near death experiences at the doctors before, one where she experienced heaven and meeting with her deceased mother...and another recent one but nothing.
@un petit cadeau, I marked you as favorite answer :)
posted by Asian_Hunnie at 11:07 PM on February 6, 2012

Response by poster: By the way, @GooseontheLoose...very true. Which reminds me of a photo that very well relates to your statement...I'll keep this in mind.

http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ly624wcC9d1qjeenbo1_500.jpg
posted by Asian_Hunnie at 11:08 PM on February 6, 2012

how do they explain those few that explain what they have seen happened when they are unconscious and eyes closed?

Setting aside the religious question, it's clear that the line between "conscious" and "unconscious" is quite fuzzy, and the brain is subject to confabulation, where false memories are created, and/or gaps in memory are filled in with incorrect, dream-like memories. Confabulation doesn't require any trauma at all. It happens all the time, and can even be recreated via experiment. These dreamlike moments can also incorporate external, real-world stimulus.

"I was floating above the hospital bed and I could see everyone and hear everything you said."

Well, for starters, you weren't really unconscious. You heard us all talking. And you imagined yourself floating. And now that you've opened your eyes and have seen this room, you've confabulated it into your memory of the dreaming state.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 11:09 PM on February 6, 2012

Response by poster: So it seems... I take it that no one believes in an after-life on here that can answer for this?
posted by Asian_Hunnie at 11:21 PM on February 6, 2012

"The cradle rocks above an abyss, and common sense tells us that our existence is but a brief crack of light between two eternities of darkness." --- Vladimir Nabokov.

Scientists say it's all CHEMICALS but how do they explain those few that explain what they have seen happened when they are unconscious and eyes closed?

Well, scientists say everything you ever think and feel is chemicals, and we have some pretty good evidence of that; e.g., when you ingest certain chemicals, it screws with how you think and feel in certain predictable ways (alcohol, aspirin, amphetamines, to name but a few). You dream all the time when you're unconscious, normally, and sometimes you remember your dreams and sometimes you don't, and sometimes the real world intrudes upon the dream state quite vividly. Recently evidence has come to light which suggests that patients apparently in deep comas can imagine themselves plating tennis, if prompted. There is an awful lot we don't know about how this stuff works.

There's a guy named Dr. Sam Parnia who has attempted to test the veracity of NDEs by placing special symbols on cabinets and so forth facing up at the ceiling in ORs and ERs; idea being, if you really are floating up there you'll be able to see them, and you couldn't see them from the ground or the operating table. But even this test is rejected by many who believe in NDEs --- this guy talks himself around the objections fairly thoroughly, and as he says, when it comes to NDEs, "Since mainstream science doesn’t even recognize a difference between mind and brain, it can hardly offer any guidance." It is not given us to pass beyond the veil.

More, perhaps, to the point, you might be interested in the work of David Eagleman, a neurologist who studies the unconscious mind and who has writen a book of 40 short stories, each of which deal with the afterlife. His work comes at these questions from strange and revealing angles, and I think it might help you to break the lock you're in.
posted by Diablevert at 11:42 PM on February 6, 2012

Let me just start by saying this clearly: I am not here to dissuade you from any religious beliefs you may have by answering this. You can believe whatever you want and I will never say you are wrong….because you actually may be right! But this is the way it went down for me. I don’t have a prepared speech for this topic and rarely talk about it. I hope you get the gist of what I am trying to say.

I don’t know if this really answers your question, but here is my take on the matter.

I had a NDE a few years back. It was a rather sudden physical calamity that happened without warning and befell me at work. It had to do with ulcers and internal bleeding… enuff said on the specifics. Anyway, a couple of months later when I came out of the coma, I was of course grateful, but took it in stride. I look upon it as an event had no particular ties to anything other than maybe years of bad diet and a family disposition towards ulcers.

There are so many things in life that are outside of our control even though we attempt stave off the grim reaper at so many turns. Sure there are ways to decrease the likelihood of an early demise, like staying away from practicing ballet with live chainsaws or certain thrill seeking activities. But in many cases, the fact that we survive on a daily basis is a combination of safeguards all around us that ensure we will wake up the next day and the simple fact that the human body pretty much is a machine that likes to stay alive at its core. Sometimes it needs help, but it is pretty good at it for the day to day stuff.

Back to the NDE (or the part thereafter), what I did find very interesting after my episode was everyone else’s need to explain out the situation in some way and was related to some sort of religious angle. Whereas I just looked upon it as a simple medical issue that had profound repercussions, others seemed to fall all over themselves to come up with a reason to assign some divine intervention to my circumstance. I cannot tell you how many times I heard the phrase “God decided it wasn’t your time” or some variant, even though I never used that phrase myself. I chalked my survival to the Great Luck Machine In The Sky that I never have really seen before, but I suppose must exist because here I still am today. In short, my near demise seemed to bother others more than it bothered me.

I don’t know whether there is a god or not, don’t try to even figure it out and the only thing the NDE did was re-enforce the thought that I never would. I have no idea why I am still here and am not going to lose sleep trying to explain out what legions of medical people who are much smarter than me couldn't. Not every event in life comes with a nice, neat reason to point at and say, "Ah ha! I knew that was why it happened!"

Extending it a bit further, we have no control over certain aspects of living, so why would we have more control over what happens afterwards? When I meet my maker, I just hope he/she has a decent cable-tv subscription at the afterlife channel and a divine George Foreman grill for my late night snacks. For the rest of it, as much as I have looked, there apparently is no after-life manual for sale that really answer my afterlife questions definitively, so again, why bother?

So to answer your question specifically - I don’t try to explain my NDE too much. Unless there is a real specific event that caused the NDE, what is the point? Nobody has ever really come back from the dead to give us the skinny on the afterlife. In every case, a person who is described as doing so, actually just never died in the first place, they just came really close.

I also had my hallucinations when I was in the hospital and I remember them vividly despite the condition I was in. However, I expect they were due to the chemicals that were being pumped into me via an IV and messing with the chemicals in my brain. I was never dead, just really close and pumped up on drugs to boot to the point that images of me floating on clouds and/or having conversations with very intelligent members of the animal kingdom about airline schedules and such that even today, seem very real in my memories. In hindsight, I think I was just high on drugs.

One can only plan for so much in life before random stupidity shows up and throws all the common sense of life out the window by dealing you a bum hand of cards. Either you accept that or you probably will be on a pathway to bleeding ulcers and sepsis from the anxiety. And of course, where does that land you? If you are lucky it lands you in a good hospital, with good doctors and a few years later in front of a green screen blathering on about how you cannot figure out how you still are alive and with no better conclusions other than you really got lucky.


Cheers
posted by lampshade at 11:52 PM on February 6, 2012 [2 favorites]

The hard part about faith is that in order to have it, you have to accept that you believe in something without having proof. That's what faith is. Choosing to believe in something even though we don't really know for sure. It's very hard. At least, it's very hard for me.

My mom has had 2 near death experiences at the doctors before, one where she experienced heaven and meeting with her deceased mother...and another recent one but nothing.

Well, if it makes you feel better, perhaps during the second event, your grandmother was just like, "SERIOUSLY? We've already done this once. I'll come back when you really mean it." I know that sounds glib, but I am being sincere. We don't know. Maybe that IS what happens.

For what it's worth, I don't know that I believe in the afterlife. But I truly do believe that I was visited by my own grandmother after her death (it's a long story) in a very real way, and if I believe in that, then I sort of have to believe there is some kind of afterlife. Personally, at some point I just decided, look: if there's an afterlife, I will know when I get there. If there isn't, I won't even know I was wrong! So I might as well try to have faith in the option I'd prefer.

Facing our own mortality, and the mortality of the people we love is, I think, one of my most wrenching things about getting older. I do think it might make you feel better to take some of this angst around your friend's dad, and redirect that energy toward helping her through a really tough time. You can't control what happens to any of us after we die, but maybe you can help her get through a sad time on earth, you know?
posted by Countess Sandwich at 12:00 AM on February 7, 2012

Response by poster: @Diablevert, I was reading about his experiment early today. I actually tried to find results but I couldn't find ANYTHING about his conclusion so far. Only that it will be determined soon. His experiment is just simply placing a mark or some symbol in the room where the patient won't see it and can only be determined if they have this "out of body experience".

Honestly, someone did make a good point that still made me think. When something crazy is going on are we going to notice the painting on the wall? The color of chair? How many times have we been to a room but didn't notice something although we did see it? We can't recall what it looked like. I didn't think of this myself, it's just someone pointed that out so still science doesn't actually prove it is NDE chemicals.

Even though it is just chemicals, does that really prove that there is no heaven or hell? That there is no God? That there is no type of spiritual place?

It's funny to say that when scientists think love is chemicals, I honestly believe it isn't just hormonal. Funny that I have faith in that. Also it is also weird that I do believe in spirits but have a hard time believing in heaven.
posted by Asian_Hunnie at 12:01 AM on February 7, 2012