Don't You Touch Me
November 19, 2011 2:28 PM Subscribe
I've been sexually assaulted and heavily/distressingly harassed by a number of different men throughout my life already. Now I'm trying to break it off with a close friend because I feel like I "need a break" from even being close to men and he won't stop even mildly pushing at this.
More recently, I've been casually involved with a close friend. It's been one of those "watch movies together and sometimes fool around" kind of things, which is all I feel I can really deal with right now. While I -have- had boyfriends, none of the guys I've been with have done the assaulting, just to clarify.
Before I've half-rolled my eyes at sexual therapy, but he's somehow been helping me deal with my semi-fear of certain kinds of sexual contact. On a few levels, I really trust him.
However now I feel like I need a break from any sort of personal contact in the physical sense. I was recently could-that-have-been-an-accident (except it happened 3-4 times in succession) by someone in another department while I was alone with them and trying to work.
I feel like this is really the last straw. I'm quite weary of being put upon by anyone with a male appendage and, while I know I can't foresee if someone is going to assault me, I -can- control who touches me with my permission.
While I do feel like this guy is my friend, I also get the sense that he can be very selfish or possibly purposefully blind about his behavior toward me. Some of the behavior he's exhibited could , looking back, definitely make people confused as to why the heck I didn't just say "No" more firmly and get out of there, if nothing else but as an example to him of what he shouldn't be doing. He knows about my previous assaults and harassment.
I have the ability to make very few friends here, but I feel like it'd be worth not having sexual contact of any sort in order to have some time to myself to sort out my own emotions (and possible triggers). He's in the same relatively friendless boat.
How do I do this? How do I push someone back to a certain distance without really losing them as a possible friend?
I feel like I want to start carrying a "just in case" knife or two, and stamp my foot and say, "All of it. All of the sexual contact from anyone stops RIGHT THE FUCK HERE. Next person who tries anything loses their fingers."
I've already been talking to a counselor, but I feel like this behavior is needed for me.
I'm just....I'm done. I don't even know what you would call this. I feel like I'm starting to dislike men for what they think they can just take. I feel like I've had enough sexual contact in my life, thank you very much. Help?
More recently, I've been casually involved with a close friend. It's been one of those "watch movies together and sometimes fool around" kind of things, which is all I feel I can really deal with right now. While I -have- had boyfriends, none of the guys I've been with have done the assaulting, just to clarify.
Before I've half-rolled my eyes at sexual therapy, but he's somehow been helping me deal with my semi-fear of certain kinds of sexual contact. On a few levels, I really trust him.
However now I feel like I need a break from any sort of personal contact in the physical sense. I was recently could-that-have-been-an-accident (except it happened 3-4 times in succession) by someone in another department while I was alone with them and trying to work.
I feel like this is really the last straw. I'm quite weary of being put upon by anyone with a male appendage and, while I know I can't foresee if someone is going to assault me, I -can- control who touches me with my permission.
While I do feel like this guy is my friend, I also get the sense that he can be very selfish or possibly purposefully blind about his behavior toward me. Some of the behavior he's exhibited could , looking back, definitely make people confused as to why the heck I didn't just say "No" more firmly and get out of there, if nothing else but as an example to him of what he shouldn't be doing. He knows about my previous assaults and harassment.
I have the ability to make very few friends here, but I feel like it'd be worth not having sexual contact of any sort in order to have some time to myself to sort out my own emotions (and possible triggers). He's in the same relatively friendless boat.
How do I do this? How do I push someone back to a certain distance without really losing them as a possible friend?
I feel like I want to start carrying a "just in case" knife or two, and stamp my foot and say, "All of it. All of the sexual contact from anyone stops RIGHT THE FUCK HERE. Next person who tries anything loses their fingers."
I've already been talking to a counselor, but I feel like this behavior is needed for me.
I'm just....I'm done. I don't even know what you would call this. I feel like I'm starting to dislike men for what they think they can just take. I feel like I've had enough sexual contact in my life, thank you very much. Help?
Of COURSE you can ask him to stop touching you. If he objects to that he's a pretty shitty "friend" and why on earth would you want to keep being friends with him. Don't do anything you don't want to do, and if he doesn't respect those boundaries drop him. Immediately. Because he's not worth it.
Anyone at all worth being friends with can deal with a no touching rule. If he can't he is not friendship material.
posted by stillnocturnal at 2:35 PM on November 19, 2011 [7 favorites]
Anyone at all worth being friends with can deal with a no touching rule. If he can't he is not friendship material.
posted by stillnocturnal at 2:35 PM on November 19, 2011 [7 favorites]
Push firmly, hard, and once. Tell him what you told us, more or less, and say: I can't deal with your flirting, okay? How he responds to this -- at first in words, and later in actions -- will tell you immediately whether he is a real friend. If he doesn't respect you completely on this, cut him off and don't look back.
I'm so sorry you're dealing with this. Best of luck.
posted by Countess Elena at 2:36 PM on November 19, 2011 [6 favorites]
I'm so sorry you're dealing with this. Best of luck.
posted by Countess Elena at 2:36 PM on November 19, 2011 [6 favorites]
Just so you know, it's OK to feel this way and it's perfectly OK to take a vacation from sexuality with other people. And, anyone who actually is a friend is going to be OK with that, whether you've been involved or not. But you have to be clear in your boundaries; you have to say No, and if he persists, you have to get up and get out. This process can be laden for people who have been sexual assaulted and you may need some support, but it's a skill you need to focus on for your own mental health.
posted by DarlingBri at 2:38 PM on November 19, 2011 [10 favorites]
posted by DarlingBri at 2:38 PM on November 19, 2011 [10 favorites]
I haven't been in your position, but in general if I have told someone that "I need a break for the next 10 weeks" and they disregarded it, they aren't really looking out for my best interests.
The first time they break that boundary, I tell them that I will consider further boundary breaking as meaning they don't actually respect me.
So far that has worked, but after that I would take more drastic measures (block number, tell work not to let calls through, then police intervention.) same as if you were in a romantic relationship.
I really hope you have a support network. A therapist. A support group. Use a 12 Step one if you have to. I am going to go out on a limb and suggest that some of the unwanted contact you're getting is because people are seeing you as open to it, or at least not likely to freak out about it.
I have had to learn appropriate behavior and boundaries as an adult, and my Appropriatometer had to be calibrated one situation at a time. I straight-up would not have been able to do it if I hadn't had other people to bounce things off of. (As in, does this seem normal to you? Is my reaction normal? And people would say yes or no and explain why. Other people learn this when they're 8, but some of us have to learn it at 35. C'est la vie.)
posted by small_ruminant at 2:39 PM on November 19, 2011 [1 favorite]
The first time they break that boundary, I tell them that I will consider further boundary breaking as meaning they don't actually respect me.
So far that has worked, but after that I would take more drastic measures (block number, tell work not to let calls through, then police intervention.) same as if you were in a romantic relationship.
I really hope you have a support network. A therapist. A support group. Use a 12 Step one if you have to. I am going to go out on a limb and suggest that some of the unwanted contact you're getting is because people are seeing you as open to it, or at least not likely to freak out about it.
I have had to learn appropriate behavior and boundaries as an adult, and my Appropriatometer had to be calibrated one situation at a time. I straight-up would not have been able to do it if I hadn't had other people to bounce things off of. (As in, does this seem normal to you? Is my reaction normal? And people would say yes or no and explain why. Other people learn this when they're 8, but some of us have to learn it at 35. C'est la vie.)
posted by small_ruminant at 2:39 PM on November 19, 2011 [1 favorite]
I'm sorry you've had these harrowing experiences with men, and I think it's completely sane to end contact with someone who even remotely seems to call your bluff in sexual situations. You should be around people, men and women, who listen to you feelings and respect your boundaries.
I would suggest picking up the book The Gift of Fear. Gavin Becker does an excellent job of helping readers hone recognize their natural fight-or-flight reactions to dangerous people and situations. I also think you need to seek therapy, immediately. Your therapist should help you explore your feelings of anger and mistrust of men. While you're absolutely justified in your feelings of anger, you need to draw more complex connections between actual bad people and men in general. The last thing you need is to allow your anger to metastasize into a larger, more irrational fear of interpersonal connections. This is how badly scared people wind up lonely, paranoid, and alienated from their world.
As to this specific issue of this fooling around guy: how have you approached this break? Are you being cagey or vague? Does he not understand that you're in a really mentally and physically vulnerable place right now, a place where sex with him is no longer fun and sexy? If you've made this clear and he's still pushing back, get out now and make sure he doesn't see you again. If he doesn't listen to you and respect your boundaries, take all necessary precautions (starting with: delete his number, block his calls, ignore his emails) to cut him out of your life. You need nurturing support systems right now, and if he can't offer that, he shouldn't be in your life.
posted by zoomorphic at 2:42 PM on November 19, 2011 [5 favorites]
I would suggest picking up the book The Gift of Fear. Gavin Becker does an excellent job of helping readers hone recognize their natural fight-or-flight reactions to dangerous people and situations. I also think you need to seek therapy, immediately. Your therapist should help you explore your feelings of anger and mistrust of men. While you're absolutely justified in your feelings of anger, you need to draw more complex connections between actual bad people and men in general. The last thing you need is to allow your anger to metastasize into a larger, more irrational fear of interpersonal connections. This is how badly scared people wind up lonely, paranoid, and alienated from their world.
As to this specific issue of this fooling around guy: how have you approached this break? Are you being cagey or vague? Does he not understand that you're in a really mentally and physically vulnerable place right now, a place where sex with him is no longer fun and sexy? If you've made this clear and he's still pushing back, get out now and make sure he doesn't see you again. If he doesn't listen to you and respect your boundaries, take all necessary precautions (starting with: delete his number, block his calls, ignore his emails) to cut him out of your life. You need nurturing support systems right now, and if he can't offer that, he shouldn't be in your life.
posted by zoomorphic at 2:42 PM on November 19, 2011 [5 favorites]
Someone who doesn't respect your boundaries is not your friend. Period. And you always, always, always have the right to decide not to be sexually intimate with a particular person or all people, for any length of time and for any or no reason.
posted by SMPA at 2:43 PM on November 19, 2011 [20 favorites]
posted by SMPA at 2:43 PM on November 19, 2011 [20 favorites]
Meet in a public place to tell him. Do not let him push to take the conversation back to your home.
Be calm. Be firm. Don't let him bait you into some sort of emotion, good or bad. Tell him you will contact him when you're ready to resume things.
Keep in mind, all his attempts to weasel around your wishes are selfish attempts to put his needs above yours, no matter how he phrases it.
This is a hard thing, but you can do it. Breaks are awesome (hard, but awesome). You're likely to learn a lot and feel much better at the end. Take care of yourself.
posted by griselda at 2:47 PM on November 19, 2011 [1 favorite]
Be calm. Be firm. Don't let him bait you into some sort of emotion, good or bad. Tell him you will contact him when you're ready to resume things.
Keep in mind, all his attempts to weasel around your wishes are selfish attempts to put his needs above yours, no matter how he phrases it.
This is a hard thing, but you can do it. Breaks are awesome (hard, but awesome). You're likely to learn a lot and feel much better at the end. Take care of yourself.
posted by griselda at 2:47 PM on November 19, 2011 [1 favorite]
You're in a kind of friends with benefit situation with this guy, it sounds like. You absolutely can and should push him back to a distance you're comfortable with.
Unfortunately, you can't dictate terms when you reduce a relationship (even a casual, friends with benefits relationship). He might not want to be friends on those terms. All you can do is tell him and find out. If he doesn't respect those boundaries, you have to enforce them by cutting off your friendship. If you've told him what you've told us here and clearly told him the physical stuff has to stop, that's all you can do.
posted by J. Wilson at 3:03 PM on November 19, 2011 [6 favorites]
Unfortunately, you can't dictate terms when you reduce a relationship (even a casual, friends with benefits relationship). He might not want to be friends on those terms. All you can do is tell him and find out. If he doesn't respect those boundaries, you have to enforce them by cutting off your friendship. If you've told him what you've told us here and clearly told him the physical stuff has to stop, that's all you can do.
posted by J. Wilson at 3:03 PM on November 19, 2011 [6 favorites]
I'm sorry you've been through this.
There's no way to guarantee you'll not lose him, but if he doesn't understand your very human need to not have any physical contact, then he's not the understanding person you need in your life right now.
You have a right to do it and if you really need to limit/end physical contact, then do it.
I wish you luck.
posted by inturnaround at 3:11 PM on November 19, 2011 [2 favorites]
There's no way to guarantee you'll not lose him, but if he doesn't understand your very human need to not have any physical contact, then he's not the understanding person you need in your life right now.
You have a right to do it and if you really need to limit/end physical contact, then do it.
I wish you luck.
posted by inturnaround at 3:11 PM on November 19, 2011 [2 favorites]
I feel like I'm starting to dislike men for what they think they can just take.
Therapy can help you figure out why you surround yourself with asshole victimizers, and why you have a hard time saying no to these people and standing firm. I don't mean just "talking to a counselor." You're engaging in unhealthy behavior that makes you unhappy, and it isn't going to stop until you a) figure out why, and b) learn to stop it.
On a few levels, I really trust him.
One wonders how many people you trusted "on a few levels" have victimized you in the past. The question isn't "Can you trust him?" You don't and can't. The question is "Can you trust yourself to decide who to trust?" Your questions hints that the answer is no.
Yeah, people call answers like this "victim-blamey." But victims commonly repeat patterns that lead to victimization. The key is to end the pattern, which only the victim can do.
posted by coolguymichael at 3:29 PM on November 19, 2011 [8 favorites]
Therapy can help you figure out why you surround yourself with asshole victimizers, and why you have a hard time saying no to these people and standing firm. I don't mean just "talking to a counselor." You're engaging in unhealthy behavior that makes you unhappy, and it isn't going to stop until you a) figure out why, and b) learn to stop it.
On a few levels, I really trust him.
One wonders how many people you trusted "on a few levels" have victimized you in the past. The question isn't "Can you trust him?" You don't and can't. The question is "Can you trust yourself to decide who to trust?" Your questions hints that the answer is no.
Yeah, people call answers like this "victim-blamey." But victims commonly repeat patterns that lead to victimization. The key is to end the pattern, which only the victim can do.
posted by coolguymichael at 3:29 PM on November 19, 2011 [8 favorites]
"Yeah, people call answers like this "victim-blamey." But victims commonly repeat patterns that lead to victimization. The key is to end the pattern, which only the victim can do."
Yes. I also noticed the OP had set themselves up a bit in this particular situation by engaging in this type of relationship, or rather, by not being realistic about this type of relationship.
Most FWB will not treat you as well as someone you are more traditionally emotionally close to. That's just that. And if you think any type of "friend" is being too physically or emotionally pushy or controlling - you do not have to socialize with them!
OP, you indicate that while you could be making platonic friendships, but you are not, and instead you are relying on this FWB relationship. In this particular situation, you have total control. If you are unhappy, it is because you are actively choosing a relationship that makes you feel shitty over investing time and energy into non-sexual relationships. That's all on you, so stop that. And please stop blaming this fellow you've been fooling around with on your way out the door because that isn't sane.
-----
I agree you should take a break from sexual relationships. I also gently suggest that you should consider taking a break from ALL relationships and get yourself into more serious and focused therapy ASAP.
I'm worried. Your question is not entirely coherent or calm. IAMNAD or anything, but you seem to be in crisis. I think if your current condition is serious enough for me, an internet stranger, to recommend that you seek some type of emergency or intervention-type care.
Get yourself appropriate help. STAT. You sound as if you are on the edge of a major breakdown. With proper care, I pray you can avoid a breakdown.
Seek relevant and appropriate healthcare immediately.
You are in my thoughts, DisreputableDog.
posted by jbenben at 5:09 PM on November 19, 2011 [5 favorites]
Yes. I also noticed the OP had set themselves up a bit in this particular situation by engaging in this type of relationship, or rather, by not being realistic about this type of relationship.
Most FWB will not treat you as well as someone you are more traditionally emotionally close to. That's just that. And if you think any type of "friend" is being too physically or emotionally pushy or controlling - you do not have to socialize with them!
OP, you indicate that while you could be making platonic friendships, but you are not, and instead you are relying on this FWB relationship. In this particular situation, you have total control. If you are unhappy, it is because you are actively choosing a relationship that makes you feel shitty over investing time and energy into non-sexual relationships. That's all on you, so stop that. And please stop blaming this fellow you've been fooling around with on your way out the door because that isn't sane.
-----
I agree you should take a break from sexual relationships. I also gently suggest that you should consider taking a break from ALL relationships and get yourself into more serious and focused therapy ASAP.
I'm worried. Your question is not entirely coherent or calm. IAMNAD or anything, but you seem to be in crisis. I think if your current condition is serious enough for me, an internet stranger, to recommend that you seek some type of emergency or intervention-type care.
Get yourself appropriate help. STAT. You sound as if you are on the edge of a major breakdown. With proper care, I pray you can avoid a breakdown.
Seek relevant and appropriate healthcare immediately.
You are in my thoughts, DisreputableDog.
posted by jbenben at 5:09 PM on November 19, 2011 [5 favorites]
I also get the sense that he can be very selfish or possibly purposefully blind about his behavior toward me.
I'd suggest that you would not only benefit from a break from intimate physical contact with anyone, but that you would also benefit from a decision to hold out for friends who are not like this.
If you're more comfortable being friends with women, be friends with women--you don't need male friendship. Nothing wrong with it, and it'd be great if someday you can have healthy friendships with men, but if right now your only male friend is someone who is selfish and ignores your boundaries, you're better off with out him. Insist on friendships with people (male or female) who are kind and respectful. Honestly, it's better to have fewer friends than to have "friends" who abuse you.
So how do you do it? You call him up or meet up in public, and you say, "I'm working through some stuff. I need to take a break from hanging out. Our physical relationship has brought up some stuff for me, and I need to deal with it. You know my history." The only acceptable response from him, if he's a real friend, is "OK, call me when you're ready," and then no contact from him until you initiate it.
Or, if--and only if--you believe he'll respect a request for no physical contact, you could say, "I'm working through some stuff. You know my history. I need for us to go back to just friends, not FWB, and I need for you to be really careful to not be flirty or physical with me. OK?" The only acceptable response from him, if he's a real friend, is "OK, I'll keep that in mind. Let me know if I do anything that crosses a line," and then no physical touching or flirty behavior. But, again, it doesn't sound like he's someone willing to be that kind of friend. If you choose not to cut off the friendship, keep a close eye on his behavior and know that you have every right to take a break from or end the friendship if he won't respect your very reasonable request.
posted by Meg_Murry at 6:18 PM on November 19, 2011
I'd suggest that you would not only benefit from a break from intimate physical contact with anyone, but that you would also benefit from a decision to hold out for friends who are not like this.
If you're more comfortable being friends with women, be friends with women--you don't need male friendship. Nothing wrong with it, and it'd be great if someday you can have healthy friendships with men, but if right now your only male friend is someone who is selfish and ignores your boundaries, you're better off with out him. Insist on friendships with people (male or female) who are kind and respectful. Honestly, it's better to have fewer friends than to have "friends" who abuse you.
So how do you do it? You call him up or meet up in public, and you say, "I'm working through some stuff. I need to take a break from hanging out. Our physical relationship has brought up some stuff for me, and I need to deal with it. You know my history." The only acceptable response from him, if he's a real friend, is "OK, call me when you're ready," and then no contact from him until you initiate it.
Or, if--and only if--you believe he'll respect a request for no physical contact, you could say, "I'm working through some stuff. You know my history. I need for us to go back to just friends, not FWB, and I need for you to be really careful to not be flirty or physical with me. OK?" The only acceptable response from him, if he's a real friend, is "OK, I'll keep that in mind. Let me know if I do anything that crosses a line," and then no physical touching or flirty behavior. But, again, it doesn't sound like he's someone willing to be that kind of friend. If you choose not to cut off the friendship, keep a close eye on his behavior and know that you have every right to take a break from or end the friendship if he won't respect your very reasonable request.
posted by Meg_Murry at 6:18 PM on November 19, 2011
DisreputableDog, I just realized you're a service member. It might be a good idea to go here and work through the assessment (here's a list of resources that can help you.) I'm especially concerned that you may be getting deployed with your socially stunted FWB, which will make a clean breakoff of contact considerably more challenging (conversely, if your FWB won't be going to Japan with you, things will be much easier...)
Also, please remember that sexual abuse and harassment is prohibited by all of the military services - if you're being mistreated by a fellow service member, even off duty, your chaplain/chain of command/equal opportunity office is the place to go (I personally would say try the chaplain first.) And if you have been assaulted, the DoD has a confidential reporting system (I know you're probably not in the Army, but it's a DoD thing.)
These are the Army and Navy harassment procedures. Not too sure what the Air Force has done with theirs, but this About page has the text of the policy.
(Your chaplain/a counselor can also help you find friends, by the way. It's not an unsolvable problem.)
posted by SMPA at 6:35 PM on November 19, 2011 [3 favorites]
Also, please remember that sexual abuse and harassment is prohibited by all of the military services - if you're being mistreated by a fellow service member, even off duty, your chaplain/chain of command/equal opportunity office is the place to go (I personally would say try the chaplain first.) And if you have been assaulted, the DoD has a confidential reporting system (I know you're probably not in the Army, but it's a DoD thing.)
These are the Army and Navy harassment procedures. Not too sure what the Air Force has done with theirs, but this About page has the text of the policy.
(Your chaplain/a counselor can also help you find friends, by the way. It's not an unsolvable problem.)
posted by SMPA at 6:35 PM on November 19, 2011 [3 favorites]
All you should ever have to do is to say clearly, here is what I need now, it's different than before, but it is what I need.
It's going to be up to him whether or not that ends your friendship. It shouldn't, but people are weird. You can't control that part. You can control expressing where your boundaries are, and you will never be wrong for doing so.
posted by Errant at 7:17 PM on November 19, 2011 [1 favorite]
It's going to be up to him whether or not that ends your friendship. It shouldn't, but people are weird. You can't control that part. You can control expressing where your boundaries are, and you will never be wrong for doing so.
posted by Errant at 7:17 PM on November 19, 2011 [1 favorite]
How do I do this? How do I push someone back to a certain distance without really losing them as a possible friend?
I browsed the answers above and didn't really see many people answer your question.
you have a pretty good reason (understatement!) for why you want to stop being sexual with this guy, so i think he should be able to understand that. at least, i'm a guy, and i could tell you how i think i'd react if i were in his shoes. ... ok, maybe you're not comfortable saying exactly why, but at least mention that it's related to past sexual assaults. anything more vague than that and it could come off as you trying to let him down easy, lying about why you're really putting an end to sexual activities.
at that point, it's up to him to decide how he wants to continue your friendship/relationship. i think if you can get across the real reason why you want to stop you will avoid most risk of him being angry with you. so putting that aside the other problem i could see is if he doesn't want to really hang out with you at all or as often if he knows there will be no sexual component. if he does that, try not to take it personally. he's not necessarily an asshole, it's just not what he signed up for. even knowing 100% that you have a legitimate reason independent of him for why you want to stop, there's still an element of rejection, and that can sting. so, sometimes you need some time apart to be able to mentally make the transition. and sometimes there are people that can seem perfectly nice to see at a party or hang out with in a group, but without a sexual component to the relationship just don't pass the bar to hang out one-on-one or actively make plans with.
you should avoid telling him when you have a meeting where there is a potential for sex, based on your past relationship. so, don't invite him over to "watch a movie" and then tell him you never want to fuck him again, and then ask him if he wants to watch ghostbusters 2 or the departed. maybe over the phone will be best. only if you truly feel it, offer some kind of consolation like if you change your mind in the future, you'll definitely let him know. or, propose to hang out some time soon, in a concrete way (as opposed to a general "let's still hang out sometime", i mean actually make some plans).
posted by cupcake1337 at 8:09 PM on November 19, 2011 [2 favorites]
I browsed the answers above and didn't really see many people answer your question.
you have a pretty good reason (understatement!) for why you want to stop being sexual with this guy, so i think he should be able to understand that. at least, i'm a guy, and i could tell you how i think i'd react if i were in his shoes. ... ok, maybe you're not comfortable saying exactly why, but at least mention that it's related to past sexual assaults. anything more vague than that and it could come off as you trying to let him down easy, lying about why you're really putting an end to sexual activities.
at that point, it's up to him to decide how he wants to continue your friendship/relationship. i think if you can get across the real reason why you want to stop you will avoid most risk of him being angry with you. so putting that aside the other problem i could see is if he doesn't want to really hang out with you at all or as often if he knows there will be no sexual component. if he does that, try not to take it personally. he's not necessarily an asshole, it's just not what he signed up for. even knowing 100% that you have a legitimate reason independent of him for why you want to stop, there's still an element of rejection, and that can sting. so, sometimes you need some time apart to be able to mentally make the transition. and sometimes there are people that can seem perfectly nice to see at a party or hang out with in a group, but without a sexual component to the relationship just don't pass the bar to hang out one-on-one or actively make plans with.
you should avoid telling him when you have a meeting where there is a potential for sex, based on your past relationship. so, don't invite him over to "watch a movie" and then tell him you never want to fuck him again, and then ask him if he wants to watch ghostbusters 2 or the departed. maybe over the phone will be best. only if you truly feel it, offer some kind of consolation like if you change your mind in the future, you'll definitely let him know. or, propose to hang out some time soon, in a concrete way (as opposed to a general "let's still hang out sometime", i mean actually make some plans).
posted by cupcake1337 at 8:09 PM on November 19, 2011 [2 favorites]
No one, and I mean no one is ever entitled to your body...ever. If your "friend" can't handle your boundaries, then he is not a true friend and he can go fuck himself. Don't ever feel guilty for expressing what you need. Your best advocate is yourself...be strong.
posted by MaryDellamorte at 10:26 PM on November 19, 2011
posted by MaryDellamorte at 10:26 PM on November 19, 2011
Coming back to say more because this hits close to home for me.
It's really complex to refuse someone you've trusted, where the waters are muddy over whether that trust is deserved in the first place. It sounds easy to yell no, or stick up for yourself, but it's not, because the truth is you want so badly for someone else to be able to fix what is wrong like he says he can. DisreputableDog wants to make everyone happy - wants the break she needs but to keep her friendship. The thing you have to learn is to choose your needs over the other person's, because that person has already shown he's not putting you first, and that's why you're here asking in the first place.
I feel like I "need a break" from even being close to men and he won't stop even mildly pushing at this.
I think this says everything.
I've had something similar to this. I had a friend who wanted to date me but I wasn't keen on dating him. I had some hard things going on in my life and I really did not need to be dating. So we went out to dinner and I told him I didn't want to date and I didn't think it would work out, and he asked to continue the discussion back at my place, and lo and behold he "talked" me into it. So we dated for four months - not that it was terrible, and like DisreputableDog I had some sexual things that he helped me work through. Which I kept telling myself was what made the relationship okay. But it was a relationship I never really wanted, and wasn't what was good for me. He pushed me into what made him happy. So I finally ended it, and he didn't take it well, and he harassed me for the next six months during the hardest time in my life. And I took a dating break that I've been on ever since.
The point being that a person who pushes you into something once isn't likely to turn around and put you first later on. He's not likely to say, 'Oh, of course, that makes so much sense. Let me back off so you can feel better.' He's in a spot where he thinks he knows what's good for the person better than they do. He likes that feeling. Of course he wants to hold on to it, which is why he's going to push back when you try to go your own way.
DisreputableDog, maybe (like me) you are/were in a bad place where what you really need is just a good friend. What you got instead is someone who wants you to fill a particular serving role in his life (sex partner, FWB, damsel in distress to his white knight, whatever).
I totally get why you don't want to lose this guy as a friend because of how close he's gotten to you. I ended up dating someone for four months because I didn't want to upset a friend. But the position he's put you in pretty much shows he's not the kind of friend you need. Maybe you don't know how to find the kind of friend you need. I can tell you, the best way to figure out is to do what your conscience is saying: take the break. It's super hard - I won't lie - because you'll crave that attention from another person and the lack will make you feel alone in the dark. But stick with it. Don't cave. It's the only way to get perspective so you can learn what's good for you, and not what some other person says is good for you. Put your happiness first, and listen to yourself. You can trust yourself.
So that's why I said earlier: Have the talk in public. Don't let him get you alone. Make sure he respects your wishes. Give yourself the time off you need. (And use it well.)
posted by griselda at 12:46 AM on November 20, 2011 [3 favorites]
It's really complex to refuse someone you've trusted, where the waters are muddy over whether that trust is deserved in the first place. It sounds easy to yell no, or stick up for yourself, but it's not, because the truth is you want so badly for someone else to be able to fix what is wrong like he says he can. DisreputableDog wants to make everyone happy - wants the break she needs but to keep her friendship. The thing you have to learn is to choose your needs over the other person's, because that person has already shown he's not putting you first, and that's why you're here asking in the first place.
I feel like I "need a break" from even being close to men and he won't stop even mildly pushing at this.
I think this says everything.
I've had something similar to this. I had a friend who wanted to date me but I wasn't keen on dating him. I had some hard things going on in my life and I really did not need to be dating. So we went out to dinner and I told him I didn't want to date and I didn't think it would work out, and he asked to continue the discussion back at my place, and lo and behold he "talked" me into it. So we dated for four months - not that it was terrible, and like DisreputableDog I had some sexual things that he helped me work through. Which I kept telling myself was what made the relationship okay. But it was a relationship I never really wanted, and wasn't what was good for me. He pushed me into what made him happy. So I finally ended it, and he didn't take it well, and he harassed me for the next six months during the hardest time in my life. And I took a dating break that I've been on ever since.
The point being that a person who pushes you into something once isn't likely to turn around and put you first later on. He's not likely to say, 'Oh, of course, that makes so much sense. Let me back off so you can feel better.' He's in a spot where he thinks he knows what's good for the person better than they do. He likes that feeling. Of course he wants to hold on to it, which is why he's going to push back when you try to go your own way.
DisreputableDog, maybe (like me) you are/were in a bad place where what you really need is just a good friend. What you got instead is someone who wants you to fill a particular serving role in his life (sex partner, FWB, damsel in distress to his white knight, whatever).
I totally get why you don't want to lose this guy as a friend because of how close he's gotten to you. I ended up dating someone for four months because I didn't want to upset a friend. But the position he's put you in pretty much shows he's not the kind of friend you need. Maybe you don't know how to find the kind of friend you need. I can tell you, the best way to figure out is to do what your conscience is saying: take the break. It's super hard - I won't lie - because you'll crave that attention from another person and the lack will make you feel alone in the dark. But stick with it. Don't cave. It's the only way to get perspective so you can learn what's good for you, and not what some other person says is good for you. Put your happiness first, and listen to yourself. You can trust yourself.
So that's why I said earlier: Have the talk in public. Don't let him get you alone. Make sure he respects your wishes. Give yourself the time off you need. (And use it well.)
posted by griselda at 12:46 AM on November 20, 2011 [3 favorites]
DisreputableDog, I'm really sorry to read about what you've been through, and what you're going through now.
First off, I just wanted to say that you don't owe this guy anything, not even a public, in-person talk about this. You can break off the friendship or set out your guidelines by email if you think that's what's best for you. (I really hope that's an option. Even if you are deployed together, you may still want to send something in writing first so he has a chance to process it without you there, without trying to argue his case.) If you do opt for an in-person talk, you might think about bringing another person along, who perhaps waits for you just out of sight if you don't want to bring them into the conversation.
As you might be aware, people who have been assaulted in the past are at very high risk for what is known as revictimization or multiple victimization. It's not that you consciously surround yourself with predatory people, but that the vulnerability resulting from your trauma makes you an attractive target to predatory people. At the very least, it makes it harder to say "no" assertively. Therapy might help you regain a sense of confidence that would make you less vulnerable to such people, or at least to help you identify when such a person has wormed his way into your life.
Then again, it might not. You could also talk to supportive friends, or take a break from/end the friendship. In his absence you may realize just how unhealthy the friendship had become. Basically, I'm nthing everyone who says to confront him about this once (whether in person or by email) and seeking therapy to help end this pattern, though I strongly suggest that you also mentally prepare to end the friendship. From the way you've described him, plus reading between the lines, he doesn't sound like the kind of supportive friend you need right now.
posted by ziggly at 9:27 AM on November 20, 2011 [2 favorites]
First off, I just wanted to say that you don't owe this guy anything, not even a public, in-person talk about this. You can break off the friendship or set out your guidelines by email if you think that's what's best for you. (I really hope that's an option. Even if you are deployed together, you may still want to send something in writing first so he has a chance to process it without you there, without trying to argue his case.) If you do opt for an in-person talk, you might think about bringing another person along, who perhaps waits for you just out of sight if you don't want to bring them into the conversation.
As you might be aware, people who have been assaulted in the past are at very high risk for what is known as revictimization or multiple victimization. It's not that you consciously surround yourself with predatory people, but that the vulnerability resulting from your trauma makes you an attractive target to predatory people. At the very least, it makes it harder to say "no" assertively. Therapy might help you regain a sense of confidence that would make you less vulnerable to such people, or at least to help you identify when such a person has wormed his way into your life.
Then again, it might not. You could also talk to supportive friends, or take a break from/end the friendship. In his absence you may realize just how unhealthy the friendship had become. Basically, I'm nthing everyone who says to confront him about this once (whether in person or by email) and seeking therapy to help end this pattern, though I strongly suggest that you also mentally prepare to end the friendship. From the way you've described him, plus reading between the lines, he doesn't sound like the kind of supportive friend you need right now.
posted by ziggly at 9:27 AM on November 20, 2011 [2 favorites]
*I just realized that the link I posted goes to a Christian site. The article is not theological in any way, here's the Psychology Today version.
posted by ziggly at 9:35 AM on November 20, 2011
posted by ziggly at 9:35 AM on November 20, 2011
Yep... I don't know if the previous men were your mother's bfs and uncles and the only employers in your jerkwater town or what, but there is a pattern and you can stop it.
Please seek therapy.
Also, examine your beliefs. You say the bfwb relationship with this friend was something you wanted. If it was truly something you wanted, you wouldn't be having such a hard time in-wanting it. I'm afraid you though the "fooling around" was a price for hanging out or the only way you could feel some feeling you like to feel but don't know how too ask for or some other unhealthy deal you made with yourself.
Please seek therapy. Use the links in this thread - plenty of useful info you can use to start helping yourself now.
posted by Lesser Shrew at 9:49 AM on November 22, 2011
Please seek therapy.
Also, examine your beliefs. You say the bfwb relationship with this friend was something you wanted. If it was truly something you wanted, you wouldn't be having such a hard time in-wanting it. I'm afraid you though the "fooling around" was a price for hanging out or the only way you could feel some feeling you like to feel but don't know how too ask for or some other unhealthy deal you made with yourself.
Please seek therapy. Use the links in this thread - plenty of useful info you can use to start helping yourself now.
posted by Lesser Shrew at 9:49 AM on November 22, 2011
Follow your instincts, because they are trying to help you. If you feel something strongly in your gut about not wanting to have sexual contact, this is a strong instinct!! Stop spending time with your friend with benefits. The more he pushes you for sexual contact after you have said no or otherwise expressed a lack of interest, the LESS he is your friend. Tell him you need some space to yourself right now and that if he's really your friend he will leave you alone and respect your wishes about that. Don't talk with him for a while -- let the calls and emails and texts go unanswered. You can "break up" over the phone or email. Since you are not in a relationship with him I think it's perfectly okay to do this without seeing him in person.
If you are athletic or active, consider a martial arts practice or training in self-defense in an appropriate setting. It will mindfully put you in your body in the present moment, and you will gain confidence and emotional & physical strength. It helped me a lot and I can't imagine life now without the strength I learned from fighting. It also helped me make friends and got me out of the house/kept me busy, which my newly-single self REALLY needed at the time! Good luck, you'll be okay.
Therapy can help you immensely. It can teach you to say no and to feel confident while you do it, instead of afraid or deprived. Sexual assault victims have a hard time with this (I did too a while back). If you aren't ready to jump into that yet, a good book that will teach you about avoiding victimization and how to "sense" when you're in danger and get out is Gavin de Becker's The Gift of Fear.
posted by zdravo at 4:40 PM on November 27, 2011
If you are athletic or active, consider a martial arts practice or training in self-defense in an appropriate setting. It will mindfully put you in your body in the present moment, and you will gain confidence and emotional & physical strength. It helped me a lot and I can't imagine life now without the strength I learned from fighting. It also helped me make friends and got me out of the house/kept me busy, which my newly-single self REALLY needed at the time! Good luck, you'll be okay.
Therapy can help you immensely. It can teach you to say no and to feel confident while you do it, instead of afraid or deprived. Sexual assault victims have a hard time with this (I did too a while back). If you aren't ready to jump into that yet, a good book that will teach you about avoiding victimization and how to "sense" when you're in danger and get out is Gavin de Becker's The Gift of Fear.
posted by zdravo at 4:40 PM on November 27, 2011
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posted by DisreputableDog at 2:29 PM on November 19, 2011