At what age should children: a) No longer kiss their parents on the lips? b) No longer see their parents naked?
October 5, 2011 2:55 PM Subscribe
At what age should children:
a) No longer kiss their parents on the lips?
b) No longer see their parents naked?
My kids (a boy and a girl) are three and a half, and my wife and I aren't shy about showing them affection or being undressed around them. (In the, "I'm changing and it's okay if you stay in the room" sense, not the "I'm going to spend the day lounging naked on the couch in front of you" sense.) Both kids affectionately kiss us and each other on the lips and cheeks.
I'd like them to grow up being comfortable and having good, healthy attitudes about their bodies and (eventually down the road) their own sexuality. At the same time, I'd really rather not inadvertently scar them for life, cause them psychological problems or make them uncomfortable. Or even encourage inappropriate behavior outside of the house.
I realize that a great deal of whether people are comfortable with nudity in the home and/or kissing their children is cultural and geographic and therefore somewhat subjective, but at what age do you think should children kissing parents on the lips and/or seeing them naked be discouraged, and why? Or should it not be discouraged at all?
Should we be setting different boundaries according to their genders and ours?
If you have children, how did you handle this? Growing up, what were your experiences?
Thanks in advance. All answers welcome.
My kids (a boy and a girl) are three and a half, and my wife and I aren't shy about showing them affection or being undressed around them. (In the, "I'm changing and it's okay if you stay in the room" sense, not the "I'm going to spend the day lounging naked on the couch in front of you" sense.) Both kids affectionately kiss us and each other on the lips and cheeks.
I'd like them to grow up being comfortable and having good, healthy attitudes about their bodies and (eventually down the road) their own sexuality. At the same time, I'd really rather not inadvertently scar them for life, cause them psychological problems or make them uncomfortable. Or even encourage inappropriate behavior outside of the house.
I realize that a great deal of whether people are comfortable with nudity in the home and/or kissing their children is cultural and geographic and therefore somewhat subjective, but at what age do you think should children kissing parents on the lips and/or seeing them naked be discouraged, and why? Or should it not be discouraged at all?
Should we be setting different boundaries according to their genders and ours?
If you have children, how did you handle this? Growing up, what were your experiences?
Thanks in advance. All answers welcome.
Growing up, I let my parents know when I was done kissing them on the lips by presenting my cheek instead. It really wasn't a big deal. I wasn't weirded out by the lip-kisses, I just decided I was done doing that one day.
posted by coppermoss at 3:00 PM on October 5, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by coppermoss at 3:00 PM on October 5, 2011 [2 favorites]
You should stop all kissing on the lips. I worked in pediatric infectious disease research up until grad school: saliva-exchanging behavior (sharing utensils or drinks, kissing on the lips, etc.) directly correlates with likelihood of earlier transmission of a host of viruses common in adults, most of them potentially much more harmful to young children.
posted by halogen at 3:01 PM on October 5, 2011 [9 favorites]
posted by halogen at 3:01 PM on October 5, 2011 [9 favorites]
I personally would not discourage this; I think it's acceptable and healthy. I am 37, a woman, and my mother and I still kiss each other on the lips and change in front of each other. My dad, not so much, but I didn't live with him as a kid. When I was 12 or so we went to a hot spring where we were naked and didn't think a thing of it.
When your kids are teens they may go through a phase where they're embarrassed by it, but I think you can cross that bridge when you get to it. You and your wife can set the example by having healthy attitudes about your bodies, as you say.
posted by Specklet at 3:03 PM on October 5, 2011 [10 favorites]
When your kids are teens they may go through a phase where they're embarrassed by it, but I think you can cross that bridge when you get to it. You and your wife can set the example by having healthy attitudes about your bodies, as you say.
posted by Specklet at 3:03 PM on October 5, 2011 [10 favorites]
Best answer: Aw halogen, really? Awwwww.
Male, USA: I kissed my dad on the lips until I was 22. Then he passed away. I'd give anything to kiss him one more time.
posted by unixrat at 3:03 PM on October 5, 2011 [82 favorites]
Male, USA: I kissed my dad on the lips until I was 22. Then he passed away. I'd give anything to kiss him one more time.
posted by unixrat at 3:03 PM on October 5, 2011 [82 favorites]
Best answer: The answer for both is: when either party is uncomfortable with it.
Now, as far as nudity goes, in the bathroom or changing clothes in the bedroom? Well, there's nakedness there as a matter of course. If kids happen to see that, well, whatever.
In the living room or the kitchen? Maybe....not so much.
I think it's a good idea to kiss as few people on the lips as possible, given what little I know about transmitting diseases. But that's my personal level of discomfort. Yours might be different.
However, I know plenty of grown children who still peck their parents on the lips. It's just...done as a hello or a goodbye. Not so much as like a 3 year old might walk up to you in the middle of the conversation and demand a kiss. And we're talking about american american american folks, all over the country, not just immigrated from anywhere else.
posted by bilabial at 3:04 PM on October 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
Now, as far as nudity goes, in the bathroom or changing clothes in the bedroom? Well, there's nakedness there as a matter of course. If kids happen to see that, well, whatever.
In the living room or the kitchen? Maybe....not so much.
I think it's a good idea to kiss as few people on the lips as possible, given what little I know about transmitting diseases. But that's my personal level of discomfort. Yours might be different.
However, I know plenty of grown children who still peck their parents on the lips. It's just...done as a hello or a goodbye. Not so much as like a 3 year old might walk up to you in the middle of the conversation and demand a kiss. And we're talking about american american american folks, all over the country, not just immigrated from anywhere else.
posted by bilabial at 3:04 PM on October 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
I am not a parent but couldn't you just let it work itself out? Once kids are school-age, they seem to start to process what other kids/people/families do, and will likely one day be all 'ew mommy, don't kiss me!' or 'gross dad, I don't want to see you in your underwear'. I wouldn't over-think it.
posted by greta simone at 3:06 PM on October 5, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by greta simone at 3:06 PM on October 5, 2011 [2 favorites]
Best answer: I always kissed my folks on the lips. My mom was a "walk around naked while getting dressed" parent and my dad was a never-naked parent, and I don't think either one was really better or worse from my perspective though I always think of my mom as the less uptight one of them and it was nice to have a female person in my life who wasn't really touchy about her own body. I think it's worth making sure kids know that some families do things differently [in my family it was learning that other people: lock doors, close the door when they went to the bathroom, don't hop into bed in the mornings with their folks saying hello] so that they can learn to socialize properly. At some point your kids will probably develop their own modesty about their own bodies and your bodies and you can work out further boundaries when that happens. Avoiding kissing because it has the potential for disease seems like something you should mention to your doctor and not take internet advice about.
posted by jessamyn at 3:06 PM on October 5, 2011 [15 favorites]
posted by jessamyn at 3:06 PM on October 5, 2011 [15 favorites]
Best answer: Growing up on the east coast of the US in the 80's and 90's, my experience was:
Kissing on lips is what married people or partnered people do, it is not an intergenerational thing at all. You only kiss one person on the lips! Mom kisses dad, dad kisses mom. Aunt kisses uncle, uncle kisses aunt. This understanding helped me establish boundaries. There was incidentally a lot of blowing and catching of kisses in my childhood, which you did not mention as a form of affection in your household.
Pragmatic nudity (e.g. being in the room when one is changing, help while bathing when kids are too young to do it themselves alone) with same-sex parents never really ceased, but kids became embarrassed by their parents' nudity around 7-9 and ended it themselves. Opposite-sex parents stopped being nude around their kids at about preschool age. "Where is it okay to be naked?" is an important lesson to learn, especially if you have the kind of kid who regularly strips just because they don't wanna wear clothes.
It sounds like you have boy-girl twins from your description. It might be a good idea to reinforce learning about their bodies and the appropriateness of covering them by pairing with the same-sex parent for naked-body-related things.
posted by juniperesque at 3:08 PM on October 5, 2011 [6 favorites]
Kissing on lips is what married people or partnered people do, it is not an intergenerational thing at all. You only kiss one person on the lips! Mom kisses dad, dad kisses mom. Aunt kisses uncle, uncle kisses aunt. This understanding helped me establish boundaries. There was incidentally a lot of blowing and catching of kisses in my childhood, which you did not mention as a form of affection in your household.
Pragmatic nudity (e.g. being in the room when one is changing, help while bathing when kids are too young to do it themselves alone) with same-sex parents never really ceased, but kids became embarrassed by their parents' nudity around 7-9 and ended it themselves. Opposite-sex parents stopped being nude around their kids at about preschool age. "Where is it okay to be naked?" is an important lesson to learn, especially if you have the kind of kid who regularly strips just because they don't wanna wear clothes.
It sounds like you have boy-girl twins from your description. It might be a good idea to reinforce learning about their bodies and the appropriateness of covering them by pairing with the same-sex parent for naked-body-related things.
posted by juniperesque at 3:08 PM on October 5, 2011 [6 favorites]
a) No longer kiss their parents on the lips? When they choose.
b) No longer see their parents naked? When they beg you to keep your clothes on.
which may mean they don't ever have a problem with it, and that's fine.
posted by b33j at 3:08 PM on October 5, 2011 [7 favorites]
b) No longer see their parents naked? When they beg you to keep your clothes on.
which may mean they don't ever have a problem with it, and that's fine.
posted by b33j at 3:08 PM on October 5, 2011 [7 favorites]
One hundred and eleven, but what bilabial said in the first paragraph is good advice too, and I'd be more worried about neighbors with unfortunate "social values", than germphobia.
posted by Webnym at 3:09 PM on October 5, 2011
posted by Webnym at 3:09 PM on October 5, 2011
I totally still peck my parents on the lips. I'm 36. We're Southerners. [NO NUDITY though. Although one of my best friends in college has a father who walks around naked all the time and she grew up totally normal and not screwed up (she thinks he's nuts, in a very fond and accepting way).]
I didn't kiss them much when I was, say, 12-22 though. Then we just got back to it.
I definitely think, especially when your kids are wee, you might as well get all the kisses you can from them because more likely than not, there's going to be a long, long period where they find you mortifying and gross. I also think that it would be possibly more traumatic for a kid to have their parent tell them they weren't going to kiss them anymore than the alternative.
posted by Countess Sandwich at 3:12 PM on October 5, 2011 [4 favorites]
I didn't kiss them much when I was, say, 12-22 though. Then we just got back to it.
I definitely think, especially when your kids are wee, you might as well get all the kisses you can from them because more likely than not, there's going to be a long, long period where they find you mortifying and gross. I also think that it would be possibly more traumatic for a kid to have their parent tell them they weren't going to kiss them anymore than the alternative.
posted by Countess Sandwich at 3:12 PM on October 5, 2011 [4 favorites]
Best answer: What you do is nowhere near as important as how you present it. This is how kids learn what is socially acceptable. If you kiss like it is normal, then it is. If you act normal when nude, it will be normal. But it you are wierd or jump behind a door they will grok that nude is something to be ashamed of.
We kiss whoever we want and don't mind the nudity. We don't hide sexuality but don't flaunt it either. Treat all these things as just part of life and you'll get easygoing, well adjusted kids.
Note: Canadian. Some US jurisdictions might send out youth services if younger kids talk about mommy and daddy hugging in the nude or something.
posted by seanmpuckett at 3:13 PM on October 5, 2011 [2 favorites]
We kiss whoever we want and don't mind the nudity. We don't hide sexuality but don't flaunt it either. Treat all these things as just part of life and you'll get easygoing, well adjusted kids.
Note: Canadian. Some US jurisdictions might send out youth services if younger kids talk about mommy and daddy hugging in the nude or something.
posted by seanmpuckett at 3:13 PM on October 5, 2011 [2 favorites]
Best answer: Well, I'm definitely not an expert on this topic, but to throw another data point into the ring:
I (female) have never seen my dad naked as far as I can remember. I'm more than fine with this, and I think I really prefer it that way. It's hard to tell without having both experiences in one lifetime, sure, but it may be better err on the safe side if you're worried, since there are no drawbacks to NOT seeing your parents naked...well with one caveat:
I WAS helpful to see my mom's body when I was going through puberty, to know what was normal and what was inherited and how things worked. There was some weirdness, but it was not the forever scarring kind, more of the mildly polite kind of awkward, you know? Not anything beyond that. She would shower and change in front of me while away from home at female locker rooms, and maybe once at home for some reason I can't really remember. Not often.
However the kissing on the lips? That went on with both parents well into adulthood. Not even kissing, more like very quick pecking goodbye or when they were sick or something like that. I DID stop and think about it with my dad, wondering if it was weird, and for a time in my teens I guess I naturally avoided it, but it wasn't SCARRING by any means. With mom, the only reason I can think that it was annoying was the typical "smothering mom love" annoyance.
So, at risk of being heteronormative...gender plays a role.
posted by Nixy at 3:17 PM on October 5, 2011 [2 favorites]
I (female) have never seen my dad naked as far as I can remember. I'm more than fine with this, and I think I really prefer it that way. It's hard to tell without having both experiences in one lifetime, sure, but it may be better err on the safe side if you're worried, since there are no drawbacks to NOT seeing your parents naked...well with one caveat:
I WAS helpful to see my mom's body when I was going through puberty, to know what was normal and what was inherited and how things worked. There was some weirdness, but it was not the forever scarring kind, more of the mildly polite kind of awkward, you know? Not anything beyond that. She would shower and change in front of me while away from home at female locker rooms, and maybe once at home for some reason I can't really remember. Not often.
However the kissing on the lips? That went on with both parents well into adulthood. Not even kissing, more like very quick pecking goodbye or when they were sick or something like that. I DID stop and think about it with my dad, wondering if it was weird, and for a time in my teens I guess I naturally avoided it, but it wasn't SCARRING by any means. With mom, the only reason I can think that it was annoying was the typical "smothering mom love" annoyance.
So, at risk of being heteronormative...gender plays a role.
posted by Nixy at 3:17 PM on October 5, 2011 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: juniperesque: "It sounds like you have boy-girl twins from your description."
Yes, they're boy-girl twins. Excellent idea. Thank you!
Wonderful answers from everyone so far. Many thanks for them. :)
posted by zarq at 3:20 PM on October 5, 2011
Yes, they're boy-girl twins. Excellent idea. Thank you!
Wonderful answers from everyone so far. Many thanks for them. :)
posted by zarq at 3:20 PM on October 5, 2011
Very similar to juniperesque: Grew up in the 80s and 90s on the East Coast and kissing on the lips was for couples only. In fact, I'm shocked to read all these responses that people did it not only as children, but as adults! To be truthful, if someone I know told me they kissed their parents on the lips as an adult, I would be grossed out, and if it was a love interest, I would run in the other direction. It is, as juniperesque said, about boundaries rather than affection. We still hugged and kissed on the cheek in our household frequently.
posted by unannihilated at 3:32 PM on October 5, 2011
posted by unannihilated at 3:32 PM on October 5, 2011
My family is a non-lip kissing family, with no opposite sex nudity but a fair bit of same sex nudity (my mother is somewhat of a hippie). My partner's famly is a kiss on the lips, lots of nudity family. It was quite hard for me to get used to both of those things (oh god naked mother in law in my room!) but I have. Sort of. Oddly enough my partner's brother is very anti-lip kissing for kids and nudity.
Which has resulted in bathroom/dressing nudity with our daughter, she still has showers with her father, and we kiss on the lips. But it's accepted that other people are different so she doesn't kiss everyone on the lips. She did try and have a shower with her aunt on the weekend though.
And now I feel weird about it again! I initially had strong responses about it all but I've Mel led significantly. But I can't imagine kissing my parents on the lips as an adult. But in all things interpersonal, its up to the people involved.
posted by geek anachronism at 3:35 PM on October 5, 2011
Which has resulted in bathroom/dressing nudity with our daughter, she still has showers with her father, and we kiss on the lips. But it's accepted that other people are different so she doesn't kiss everyone on the lips. She did try and have a shower with her aunt on the weekend though.
And now I feel weird about it again! I initially had strong responses about it all but I've Mel led significantly. But I can't imagine kissing my parents on the lips as an adult. But in all things interpersonal, its up to the people involved.
posted by geek anachronism at 3:35 PM on October 5, 2011
Best answer: Well . . . my mom was pretty comfortable naked when I was a kid and in retrospect, I kinda wish I hadn't seen that, ever. I only saw my dad naked once, by accident, and especially wish that had not happened. It may have been made worse by the fact that my bedroom was next to theirs and I actually grew up having to listen to them having sex- that was the most disturbing part which made the occasional nudity that much more gross.
It's not that I have a problem with nudity, or the fact that parents have sex. It's just . . . I don't want images/ sounds of my parents' sex life in my brain when I'm trying to have my own sex life, now, years down the road, ya know? I know not everyone would agree with that, and that's fine. But personally I wish that stuff had been kept to a minimum when I was a kid. I can't unsee/ hear that shit. And although it may have seemed fine to them at the time, I'm sure they wouldn't do it now- but those images/ sounds are still as clear in my mind as they were 20 years ago. Maybe they think I don't remember that stuff, but boy, do I.
Like I said though, I think it's just the fact that it was MY PARENTS. For instance when I was at Burning Man, I did notice that there were plenty of kids there, as well as plenty of people walking around naked, and nobody seemed too bothered by it. especially the kids. Not to say that you should necessarily be dragging your kids to Burning Man but I spent some time thinking about it while I was there witnessing it and it seemed like a lot less confrontational way to experience nudity (because they're strangers.) In any case though, I don't really think you need to BE naked in front of your kids in order for them to feel ok with their bodies. As long as you don't actively shame or criticize their bodies, I think they will easily discover the joy of nudity on their own terms when they are old enough. I think a healthy part of their sexuality will have to do with the fact that it is actually theirs, and that their first experience with it was not overhearing/ seeing sexual stuff from their parents, because that feels creepy the older you get.
As far as kissing on the lips goes, my extended family did and still sometimes does do that and again, it made (makes) me uncomfortable but I went along with it because I felt it was expected of me. I still don't like it, actually. And I agree with the germ- transmission thing. Sorry.
posted by GastrocNemesis at 3:39 PM on October 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
It's not that I have a problem with nudity, or the fact that parents have sex. It's just . . . I don't want images/ sounds of my parents' sex life in my brain when I'm trying to have my own sex life, now, years down the road, ya know? I know not everyone would agree with that, and that's fine. But personally I wish that stuff had been kept to a minimum when I was a kid. I can't unsee/ hear that shit. And although it may have seemed fine to them at the time, I'm sure they wouldn't do it now- but those images/ sounds are still as clear in my mind as they were 20 years ago. Maybe they think I don't remember that stuff, but boy, do I.
Like I said though, I think it's just the fact that it was MY PARENTS. For instance when I was at Burning Man, I did notice that there were plenty of kids there, as well as plenty of people walking around naked, and nobody seemed too bothered by it. especially the kids. Not to say that you should necessarily be dragging your kids to Burning Man but I spent some time thinking about it while I was there witnessing it and it seemed like a lot less confrontational way to experience nudity (because they're strangers.) In any case though, I don't really think you need to BE naked in front of your kids in order for them to feel ok with their bodies. As long as you don't actively shame or criticize their bodies, I think they will easily discover the joy of nudity on their own terms when they are old enough. I think a healthy part of their sexuality will have to do with the fact that it is actually theirs, and that their first experience with it was not overhearing/ seeing sexual stuff from their parents, because that feels creepy the older you get.
As far as kissing on the lips goes, my extended family did and still sometimes does do that and again, it made (makes) me uncomfortable but I went along with it because I felt it was expected of me. I still don't like it, actually. And I agree with the germ- transmission thing. Sorry.
posted by GastrocNemesis at 3:39 PM on October 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
Best answer: This is totally a choice thing, and should be child-led.
We're pretty free and easy around our family, and both of us grew up that way. My daughters (7 and 9) have started making fun of my husband if they see him naked, but not yet in a "ew, dad, put it away" way, and in fact they insisted he take a bath with them recently when we stayed somewhere with a big jet tub. They still don't seem to notice if I'm naked. We'll continue to follow their lead on the matter.
The older one has started experimenting with privacy, but it's inconsistent--she'll demand to have her shower in private, but then she'll come out and do the "nakey dance" afterward. The younger one would still go outside naked if nobody stopped her (at a certain point, we decided it was time to stop her).
They are still BIG on lipkissing but I tend to do the switcharoo and offer my cheek instead, because I usually wear lipstick, which of course makes kissing me on the lips all the more alluring, since, hey, free lipstick!
posted by padraigin at 3:46 PM on October 5, 2011 [2 favorites]
We're pretty free and easy around our family, and both of us grew up that way. My daughters (7 and 9) have started making fun of my husband if they see him naked, but not yet in a "ew, dad, put it away" way, and in fact they insisted he take a bath with them recently when we stayed somewhere with a big jet tub. They still don't seem to notice if I'm naked. We'll continue to follow their lead on the matter.
The older one has started experimenting with privacy, but it's inconsistent--she'll demand to have her shower in private, but then she'll come out and do the "nakey dance" afterward. The younger one would still go outside naked if nobody stopped her (at a certain point, we decided it was time to stop her).
They are still BIG on lipkissing but I tend to do the switcharoo and offer my cheek instead, because I usually wear lipstick, which of course makes kissing me on the lips all the more alluring, since, hey, free lipstick!
posted by padraigin at 3:46 PM on October 5, 2011 [2 favorites]
Best answer: I don't remember ever seeing my parents naked when I was a kid except by accident. I'm 21 and from the south, if it matters. About as far as it goes with us is sharing a dressing room with my mom occasionally while shopping (so underwear, but no nudity). Of course, I was a really modest kid- my brothers both went through naked phases, but I never did. Me being naked with parents probably stopped happening around when I was capable of bathing myself- so early elementary school age, maybe 7 or 8? And I definitely started being like "Mooom I'm naked!!!" before my parents thought it was a big deal.
My family is very cuddly and affectionate, and we definitely did the all-pile-into-bed thing on weekend mornings growing up. I kissed both my parents on the lips until at some point, my dad and I switched to me kissing him on the cheek, him kissing me on the forehead. That probably started when I was around 14 or so. My mom and I still peck each other on the lips.
posted by MadamM at 3:47 PM on October 5, 2011
My family is very cuddly and affectionate, and we definitely did the all-pile-into-bed thing on weekend mornings growing up. I kissed both my parents on the lips until at some point, my dad and I switched to me kissing him on the cheek, him kissing me on the forehead. That probably started when I was around 14 or so. My mom and I still peck each other on the lips.
posted by MadamM at 3:47 PM on October 5, 2011
Best answer: My parents kiss me on the lips occasionally, if they're going away on holidays or wishing me happy birthday. Not a regular day-to-day occurence, though. It makes me slightly uncomfortable, but then again I grew up with very little physical affection, so I guess the gradual change towards lip-kissing wasn't something I became used to easily.
My kids (13 year old daughter, 10 year old son) and I kiss each other on the lips everyday when we wish each other good morning or goodnight, or just feel like being warm'n'fuzzy towards each other. I've been told by other school mothers that they're envious that my son still kisses me goodbye before school, so I'm making the most of it while it lasts!
My daughter still sees me naked occasionally. My son stopped seeing me naked when he was about 7 and starting shrieking, "UGH, NAKED MOTHER!" and covering his eyes dramatically.
Follow their lead. If the kids feel it's inappropriate, they'll let you know. Happy stable kids are good like that.
posted by malibustacey9999 at 3:52 PM on October 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
My kids (13 year old daughter, 10 year old son) and I kiss each other on the lips everyday when we wish each other good morning or goodnight, or just feel like being warm'n'fuzzy towards each other. I've been told by other school mothers that they're envious that my son still kisses me goodbye before school, so I'm making the most of it while it lasts!
My daughter still sees me naked occasionally. My son stopped seeing me naked when he was about 7 and starting shrieking, "UGH, NAKED MOTHER!" and covering his eyes dramatically.
Follow their lead. If the kids feel it's inappropriate, they'll let you know. Happy stable kids are good like that.
posted by malibustacey9999 at 3:52 PM on October 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
I'm a 55 year old male midwesterner. My kids let me know when they were done seeing me dash nekkid from the bathroom to the bedroom, I think at around age 6 or so. But, as padraigin says, it should be child led.
My dad and I kiss on the lips, and, reading unixrat's answer, I think I'll go give him a call.
posted by Floydd at 3:54 PM on October 5, 2011 [2 favorites]
My dad and I kiss on the lips, and, reading unixrat's answer, I think I'll go give him a call.
posted by Floydd at 3:54 PM on October 5, 2011 [2 favorites]
Also, not to be a giant bitch about it, but I'd take all the answers about "here's what we do with our kids" with a grain of salt. first of all, you have no way of knowing how it's affected them and their sex lives because they haven't gotten to that point yet. second of all, if it did/ does scar them in some way, they probably wouldn't tell you about it. if you asked my mom this question she'd probably say she was naked and i turned out just fine but as i stated above i'd be a lot happier if i had never seen and experienced that. also "kids will let you know if they're uncomfortable"- really? are you sure? when I was a kid, I didn't know I could tell my mom to stop being naked (i thought it would hurt her feelings.) and i sure didn't want to tell them i could hear them having sex- can you think of anything more embarrassing than that!?? when you're a kid, you expect your parents to set the appropriate boundaries because that's their job. it might not occur to kids to attempt to negotiate said boundaries. it didn't occur to me . . .
posted by GastrocNemesis at 3:56 PM on October 5, 2011 [5 favorites]
posted by GastrocNemesis at 3:56 PM on October 5, 2011 [5 favorites]
I'd recommend avoiding a situation where you have to tell a 13- or 14-year-old that X behavior is inappropriate now that you've hit puberty. I could be wrong, but that would seem to sexualize something completely innocent, whereas ending the behavior before the kid reaches puberty can have a totally boring explanation ("I like it better when you kiss me on the cheek" or "I'd like to change my clothes by myself").
That's not to say you have to stop any of this, now or ever. Just, if you feel it should end--make sure it does before there's a sexual angle to explain.
posted by Meg_Murry at 4:02 PM on October 5, 2011 [2 favorites]
That's not to say you have to stop any of this, now or ever. Just, if you feel it should end--make sure it does before there's a sexual angle to explain.
posted by Meg_Murry at 4:02 PM on October 5, 2011 [2 favorites]
Best answer: Don't worry about this. They will totally tell you. My brother is 2 1/2 years younger than me and we would do a crazy "nakey" dance before bath time. One day I told my mom I didn't want to do that anymore and so we didn't. We had a hard time explaining this to my brother but just listen to your kids and ask about their feelings.
As for the kissing thing, if that is how they do it in your region keep doing it unless the kids say no. We don't do that around here so much so it really squicks me out.
posted by boobjob at 4:13 PM on October 5, 2011
As for the kissing thing, if that is how they do it in your region keep doing it unless the kids say no. We don't do that around here so much so it really squicks me out.
posted by boobjob at 4:13 PM on October 5, 2011
Best answer: I think a good takeout here is that a bit of junk and some kisses - or the absense thereof - isn't going to hurt anyone really. Lots of people make it out of childhood into a wonderful adulthood with much more challenging things than this.
I don't know, I think - maybe this is a Western thing, maybe it's a human thing - but there's an attitude ithat child-rearing is somewhat like a recipe, but it's not a stew; it's a complicated recipe where one change to the ingredients will ruin the whole souffle. If you don't follow the recipe to the letter, you're a bad person and your kids will be bad people. Except, no one's given you the recipe, you have to keep asking people and trying to remember different parts all the time, and sometimes it seems like it's actually three of four different recipes all mixed together and how can you replicate that?
Kids are resilient. Kids are adaptable (far more so than many adults I've met). The diversity of human experience in child-rearing and otherwise is a wonderful thing that leads to richer, more complex, more rewarding relationships with different types of people all throughout life. The knowledge that you're different and that diversity is okay is a supreme lesson for parents and kids alike, and a resistance to the terrible paranoia of sexualisation will make your kids healthier, happier people - with their own bodies and others.
So take your junk out if you want to, I beseech you! Kiss them on the lips like it's the last time you'll ever see them, or peck like shy sparrow if it floats your boat. Expose them to the rich panoply of human experience and make sure they understand that - whatever you do - it's okay for you guys. And whatever others do, it's okay for them.
posted by smoke at 4:20 PM on October 5, 2011 [2 favorites]
I don't know, I think - maybe this is a Western thing, maybe it's a human thing - but there's an attitude ithat child-rearing is somewhat like a recipe, but it's not a stew; it's a complicated recipe where one change to the ingredients will ruin the whole souffle. If you don't follow the recipe to the letter, you're a bad person and your kids will be bad people. Except, no one's given you the recipe, you have to keep asking people and trying to remember different parts all the time, and sometimes it seems like it's actually three of four different recipes all mixed together and how can you replicate that?
Kids are resilient. Kids are adaptable (far more so than many adults I've met). The diversity of human experience in child-rearing and otherwise is a wonderful thing that leads to richer, more complex, more rewarding relationships with different types of people all throughout life. The knowledge that you're different and that diversity is okay is a supreme lesson for parents and kids alike, and a resistance to the terrible paranoia of sexualisation will make your kids healthier, happier people - with their own bodies and others.
So take your junk out if you want to, I beseech you! Kiss them on the lips like it's the last time you'll ever see them, or peck like shy sparrow if it floats your boat. Expose them to the rich panoply of human experience and make sure they understand that - whatever you do - it's okay for you guys. And whatever others do, it's okay for them.
posted by smoke at 4:20 PM on October 5, 2011 [2 favorites]
Also, just because it's teens doesn't mean it's sexual. Many other cultures spend their whole lives regularly and frequently at least half or more naked with their family members. Nudity doesn't have to connote sexuality.
posted by smoke at 4:22 PM on October 5, 2011 [5 favorites]
posted by smoke at 4:22 PM on October 5, 2011 [5 favorites]
I (32, F) still kiss both of my parents goodbye every time I see them, usually not on the lips but if so, it's not even an issue. We also end all phone conversations with "Love you!" Dad and my brother (33) tend to go for the cheek kiss/hug combo.
Can't remember ever seeing either of my parents naked though and that is fine by all.
posted by futureisunwritten at 4:30 PM on October 5, 2011
Can't remember ever seeing either of my parents naked though and that is fine by all.
posted by futureisunwritten at 4:30 PM on October 5, 2011
Sometimes people see such signs of affection and they get skeeved out, based on their own perceptions/past/whatever. Their reaction to you or your family may be colored by view of those signs of affection. Just something to think about, doesn't mean you should change your behavior.
But.
It's easy to image classmates seeing it an opportunity to make certain type of joke or crack.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:34 PM on October 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
But.
It's easy to image classmates seeing it an opportunity to make certain type of joke or crack.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:34 PM on October 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
I'm from the northeast US and I don't think parents should ever kiss their parents on the lips. And they shouldn't see their parents naked once they're old enough to remember it. Is there any reason to have nudity and do lip-kissing?
posted by J. Wilson at 4:45 PM on October 5, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by J. Wilson at 4:45 PM on October 5, 2011 [2 favorites]
My nine year old daughter will walk into my bedroom while I'm changing, say "Heh heh, I see your butt," and then ask me to sign her homework. She has never seen her father naked. Me being naked is no big deal, and it's let her feel comfortable enough to ask questions about the difference between my body and hers, which is a very easy way to have the puberty conversation. She kisses us both on the lips at home, but only in the car before I drop her off at school, so no one sees.
posted by Ruki at 5:08 PM on October 5, 2011
posted by Ruki at 5:08 PM on October 5, 2011
I (33, female) never kiss my parents (or my sister) on the lips, and I don't recall ever having done so. But as an adult I have friends who I friendly-kiss on the lips (not all my friends, just one group). If I got together with and had kids with one of these friendly-kissin' friends, I suppose we would kiss our kids on the lips; if I got together with a non-friendly-kissin' person, probably not. I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with kissing kids on the lips or not kissing kids on the lips.
I've barely ever seen my parents naked. Like, once or twice ever, and that very accidentally, briefly, and incidentally. I don't think that that damaged me or anything, but maybe it contributed to my own discomfort with my body as a young adult (although lord knows plenty of people are uncomfortable with their bodies as teens/young adults for any number of reasons).
posted by mskyle at 5:12 PM on October 5, 2011
I've barely ever seen my parents naked. Like, once or twice ever, and that very accidentally, briefly, and incidentally. I don't think that that damaged me or anything, but maybe it contributed to my own discomfort with my body as a young adult (although lord knows plenty of people are uncomfortable with their bodies as teens/young adults for any number of reasons).
posted by mskyle at 5:12 PM on October 5, 2011
Is there any reason to have nudity and do lip-kissing?
Is there any reason to avoid those things...?
Anyway, these things self-set according to the kid and culture; you stop if/when you get "Ew, Dad, put a robe on!"
posted by kmennie at 5:17 PM on October 5, 2011
Is there any reason to avoid those things...?
Anyway, these things self-set according to the kid and culture; you stop if/when you get "Ew, Dad, put a robe on!"
posted by kmennie at 5:17 PM on October 5, 2011
Also, just because it's teens doesn't mean it's sexual.
This is so true. My boys are 15 and 17, and they still play "the naked jumping game" every time we stay in a hotel (jumping from bed to bed in a bizarre variation of the alligator/shark/lava game). The last few years I've had to insist they wait until I leave the room.
posted by headnsouth at 5:19 PM on October 5, 2011 [3 favorites]
This is so true. My boys are 15 and 17, and they still play "the naked jumping game" every time we stay in a hotel (jumping from bed to bed in a bizarre variation of the alligator/shark/lava game). The last few years I've had to insist they wait until I leave the room.
posted by headnsouth at 5:19 PM on October 5, 2011 [3 favorites]
Best answer: Like others have said, these are 100% completely cultural, and there is no real benefit or detriment to either doing or not doing these things.
I remember going to the lake in Munich, which had a nude and non-nude side. Both sides had plenty of families hanging out, swimming, playing frisbee, sunbathing, and it was 100% preference which side you chose. None of the naked kids on the naked side of the lake look put out by it, nor did any of the clothed kids on the clothed side of the lake.
posted by tylerkaraszewski at 5:20 PM on October 5, 2011
I remember going to the lake in Munich, which had a nude and non-nude side. Both sides had plenty of families hanging out, swimming, playing frisbee, sunbathing, and it was 100% preference which side you chose. None of the naked kids on the naked side of the lake look put out by it, nor did any of the clothed kids on the clothed side of the lake.
posted by tylerkaraszewski at 5:20 PM on October 5, 2011
It is totally cultural, but I think the only point you need to take into consideration is what might cause your kids social difficulties. In other words, you probably want to be in line with the mainstream culture where you are.
If you don't know for sure what most people in your social circles feel about these questions, you should probably err on the side of caution and already stop with the opposite sex nudity and lip-kissing. (Personally speaking I have no issues with it at all, even continuing beyond small child age, but again - it's what your kids might get teased about or feel weird about later that matters.)
posted by lollusc at 5:45 PM on October 5, 2011
If you don't know for sure what most people in your social circles feel about these questions, you should probably err on the side of caution and already stop with the opposite sex nudity and lip-kissing. (Personally speaking I have no issues with it at all, even continuing beyond small child age, but again - it's what your kids might get teased about or feel weird about later that matters.)
posted by lollusc at 5:45 PM on October 5, 2011
Best answer: I don't think kissing should be discouraged.
1. We haven't come anywhere near our maximum capacity for love in this world, and what's wrong with showing love and affection?
2. There's a pretty big difference between sexy-time kisses and the kisses you give your family, even when they are both done on the lips. People (including young ones) understand the difference.
posted by Houstonian at 6:07 PM on October 5, 2011 [4 favorites]
1. We haven't come anywhere near our maximum capacity for love in this world, and what's wrong with showing love and affection?
2. There's a pretty big difference between sexy-time kisses and the kisses you give your family, even when they are both done on the lips. People (including young ones) understand the difference.
posted by Houstonian at 6:07 PM on October 5, 2011 [4 favorites]
Best answer: I'm a 35 year-old male with a twin sister.
I remember once being very young, perhaps 4 or 5, and my mom was showing my sister and I photographs she had taken.
She got to one that she had snapped of my dad naked. Before we could see it, she covered up the offending parts with another picture.
"Why can't we see the whole thing?"
"'Cause he's naked!"
"So?"
Much more fruitless explaining commenced, but she would not budge. I remember being BAFFLED that we couldn't see the whole picture. To a kid that age, it was like not letting us see his elbow or something.
So I never, ever have seen either of my parents naked, and my mom clearly was not comfortable with the idea from an age where we could speak and communicate.
On one hand, my takeaway from that episode - which I still remember - is that if you put the kibosh on nudity TOO young, all you will do is confuse them. On the other hand, I certainly don't think I am any worse for wear over it. Which suggests to me that this is an issue that can easily be beanplated. So don't overthink it, or stress about What Will Happen if you go with tact A, B, or C.
(also, my mom was extremely "lovey-dovey" with us, but I don't remember lip-kisses beyond being a little kid. As a result, I find the idea of lip-kissing between non-romantic couplings a bit gross. YM, of course, MV.)
posted by mreleganza at 6:39 PM on October 5, 2011
I remember once being very young, perhaps 4 or 5, and my mom was showing my sister and I photographs she had taken.
She got to one that she had snapped of my dad naked. Before we could see it, she covered up the offending parts with another picture.
"Why can't we see the whole thing?"
"'Cause he's naked!"
"So?"
Much more fruitless explaining commenced, but she would not budge. I remember being BAFFLED that we couldn't see the whole picture. To a kid that age, it was like not letting us see his elbow or something.
So I never, ever have seen either of my parents naked, and my mom clearly was not comfortable with the idea from an age where we could speak and communicate.
On one hand, my takeaway from that episode - which I still remember - is that if you put the kibosh on nudity TOO young, all you will do is confuse them. On the other hand, I certainly don't think I am any worse for wear over it. Which suggests to me that this is an issue that can easily be beanplated. So don't overthink it, or stress about What Will Happen if you go with tact A, B, or C.
(also, my mom was extremely "lovey-dovey" with us, but I don't remember lip-kisses beyond being a little kid. As a result, I find the idea of lip-kissing between non-romantic couplings a bit gross. YM, of course, MV.)
posted by mreleganza at 6:39 PM on October 5, 2011
Best answer: Wish I could find a cite, but @ 15 years ago, there was a study that said that children who grow up in homes with nudity are more likely to be sexually well-adjusted as adults. I think being comfortable about your bodies, and not making a big deal about it, is a really good thing. When my son was getting near adolescence, it felt better to be more reserved. I know families who kiss on the lips as adults; I didn't grow up with it, so never adopted the habit. My 24 year old son is the best hugger of all time. Of All Time, People!
posted by theora55 at 6:49 PM on October 5, 2011 [4 favorites]
posted by theora55 at 6:49 PM on October 5, 2011 [4 favorites]
Best answer: Um...I'm 34, and my mom still changes in front of me, and kisses me on the lips. Maybe being the same sex makes it less uncomfortable, but we're both bi so that's not really it -- it's that she's my mom.
'Course, my mom is a closet nudist (nudist only at home) and walked around the house naked in front of my brother and I for years (to and from shower, etc). The only effect is that I'm pretty comfortable with nudity around my husband, and will probably be the same way around my kids.
posted by jb at 7:00 PM on October 5, 2011
'Course, my mom is a closet nudist (nudist only at home) and walked around the house naked in front of my brother and I for years (to and from shower, etc). The only effect is that I'm pretty comfortable with nudity around my husband, and will probably be the same way around my kids.
posted by jb at 7:00 PM on October 5, 2011
(for anyone weirded out by parent-child lip-kissing - it's a peck or a smack, not french-style).
posted by jb at 7:06 PM on October 5, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by jb at 7:06 PM on October 5, 2011 [3 favorites]
Best answer: About this parental nakedness thing: my family doesn't kiss or touch much and I don't think I ever saw a parent naked...probably saw my parents partly-dressed maybe three or four times ever. But my mother's health has declined and as she needs more and more help I've needed to belt up and deal with helping her with her clothes. Young mefites: your parents are going to age, and you'll probably see their aging bodies be naked, be sick, be vulnerable. That makes the potential "squick" of nudity when your parents are young and healthy and in no need of help seem pretty lightweight. If anything, it would be easier now if my family hadn't been so hung up.
posted by Frowner at 7:08 PM on October 5, 2011 [4 favorites]
posted by Frowner at 7:08 PM on October 5, 2011 [4 favorites]
Grew up bathing and showering with my parents (and sister, and cousins) until probably 7 or 8. Still kiss my mom on the lips. I went through a shy period about my body in high school but never thought there was anything that weird about seeing my parents. Far more upsetting to me was when my mother tried to tell me I couldn't sleep topless anymore on hot summer nights when I was 10 or so. To this day we'll sharing changing rooms while shopping, etc. Never did really get that one. Still sleep topless sometimes.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 7:16 PM on October 5, 2011
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 7:16 PM on October 5, 2011
Best answer: I don't kiss my son on the lips because he's a slobber-machine and I don't like it, not because he has a problem with it, so we kiss him on the cheeks, or forehead or top of the head. I intend to keep doing this until he tells me not to, because he's irresistably cute.
As for nudity...he's 5, and doesn't think of it as a big deal. We got in the habit of not locking him out of the bathroom at a young age because we worried that he might not get help if he needed it, and so it's kind of hard now to make A Big Deal about it. Mostly I tell him I would like to use the bathroom alone, please, and he's slowly accepted that, and since I usually change in the bathroom, he doesn't see me sans clothes very often. But when it happens, I purposely don't shriek or shield my body or anything because it's not a big deal. Humans have bodies, and he knows that girl bodies are not the same as boy bodies. I just tell him I'll be dressed and out in a bit and since the bathroom is boring, he leaves.
His dad had to teach him how to pee standing up, so he's seen his dad's stuff before, and again, we didn't make a Big Deal out of it.
I do worry a little that he'll start educating the kids at school about the names of body parts and get in trouble for it, but so far it hasn't happened.
I expect at some point he won't want to see us naked anymore, and that will be easy enough for him to avoid; we don't walk around the house that way.
posted by emjaybee at 7:22 PM on October 5, 2011
As for nudity...he's 5, and doesn't think of it as a big deal. We got in the habit of not locking him out of the bathroom at a young age because we worried that he might not get help if he needed it, and so it's kind of hard now to make A Big Deal about it. Mostly I tell him I would like to use the bathroom alone, please, and he's slowly accepted that, and since I usually change in the bathroom, he doesn't see me sans clothes very often. But when it happens, I purposely don't shriek or shield my body or anything because it's not a big deal. Humans have bodies, and he knows that girl bodies are not the same as boy bodies. I just tell him I'll be dressed and out in a bit and since the bathroom is boring, he leaves.
His dad had to teach him how to pee standing up, so he's seen his dad's stuff before, and again, we didn't make a Big Deal out of it.
I do worry a little that he'll start educating the kids at school about the names of body parts and get in trouble for it, but so far it hasn't happened.
I expect at some point he won't want to see us naked anymore, and that will be easy enough for him to avoid; we don't walk around the house that way.
posted by emjaybee at 7:22 PM on October 5, 2011
My thought is that you should be able to be naked in your own home in front of your family if you want to. If your kids don't like it, they can choose not to look or can leave the room or can voice their feelings "eek...yuck" or whatever.
But I can't see the harm in having a family environment where people are comfortable with their bodies.
posted by Annabelle74 at 7:53 PM on October 5, 2011
But I can't see the harm in having a family environment where people are comfortable with their bodies.
posted by Annabelle74 at 7:53 PM on October 5, 2011
Best answer: i grew up seeing my mom naked every day; same is pretty much true of all of my girl friends through high school—and even some of their moms too, if i was at hanging out at their house or if we were shopping. as an adult, i never stress over about changing clothes around other people, being naked at the gym or at a korean spa with my friends or perfect strangers, or wearing a bathing suit anywhere. multiple times every single week, i feel really lucky i was raised without body shame.
posted by lia at 8:03 PM on October 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by lia at 8:03 PM on October 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
Best answer: We are a family of lip-kissing naked people.
posted by crankylex at 8:15 PM on October 5, 2011 [9 favorites]
posted by crankylex at 8:15 PM on October 5, 2011 [9 favorites]
It might depend on the individual kids, not a rule. I refused lip kissing after a while. I don't think it was cultural, just didn't like it. Milage might vary for both your kids etc.
posted by Not Supplied at 8:27 PM on October 5, 2011
posted by Not Supplied at 8:27 PM on October 5, 2011
Best answer: If we are really accepting all data points, then here's mine.......
It doesn't hurt to establish that extended lip-kissing and adult nudity is not for kids. You might have good intentions, but there are people out there who do not. They're predators and they know how to use this meshing of boundaries against children who would be their prey.
IMHO if you're going to lip-kiss and share your adult nudity with your children, (a) I agree with stopping with the nudity once your kids are old enough to remember in detail, and (b) making it very clear that you are the ONLY adults who have permission to kiss these super-awesome kids. Oh and (c) of course, stop on either front should they express that it's no longer a mutual affection.
posted by human ecologist at 8:32 PM on October 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
It doesn't hurt to establish that extended lip-kissing and adult nudity is not for kids. You might have good intentions, but there are people out there who do not. They're predators and they know how to use this meshing of boundaries against children who would be their prey.
IMHO if you're going to lip-kiss and share your adult nudity with your children, (a) I agree with stopping with the nudity once your kids are old enough to remember in detail, and (b) making it very clear that you are the ONLY adults who have permission to kiss these super-awesome kids. Oh and (c) of course, stop on either front should they express that it's no longer a mutual affection.
posted by human ecologist at 8:32 PM on October 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
Best answer: My son is autistic and he doesn't kiss me, though he adores hugs (really really tight hugs!) and will give enthusiastic hugs. He doesn't like me to kiss him although he will allow me to press my lips to his head but without any actual "kiss" sound.
This is obviously unlike most people's situations but I guess my point is this: whatever gesture that translates to "I love you" between you and your children is what will be the most acceptable.
posted by Wuggie Norple at 8:34 PM on October 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
This is obviously unlike most people's situations but I guess my point is this: whatever gesture that translates to "I love you" between you and your children is what will be the most acceptable.
posted by Wuggie Norple at 8:34 PM on October 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Going with the norms I grew up with and internalized, a) never... and b) before they're old enough to remember.
I grew up in a suburb near San Francisco and reading this, I had no idea it was so common for parents to kiss kids on the lips. My parents would kiss me on the cheek or forehead until I was about 7 or 8 or so, and hugs thereafter. As an adult the thought of kissing anyone on the mouth except my romantic partner makes me very uncomfortable. I like my personal space.
After maybe the age of 2-3 I never saw either of my parents naked, and I'm heartily glad I have no such memories. As an adult the thought of being naked around anyone except my romantic partner (and maybe my doctor) makes me very uncomfortable. I like my privacy.
I know it is silly to be bothered by such innocent things, and I don't think there is anything *wrong* with either of these things -- but honestly, at a deep level I have a squicked-out reaction.
I guess I'm sharing this just to point out that some people may react weirdly, and to maybe suggest that you distinguish behavior that's OK in your house and family, and behavior that's OK in friends' houses or in public or if you travel.
posted by asynchronous at 8:42 PM on October 5, 2011 [3 favorites]
I grew up in a suburb near San Francisco and reading this, I had no idea it was so common for parents to kiss kids on the lips. My parents would kiss me on the cheek or forehead until I was about 7 or 8 or so, and hugs thereafter. As an adult the thought of kissing anyone on the mouth except my romantic partner makes me very uncomfortable. I like my personal space.
After maybe the age of 2-3 I never saw either of my parents naked, and I'm heartily glad I have no such memories. As an adult the thought of being naked around anyone except my romantic partner (and maybe my doctor) makes me very uncomfortable. I like my privacy.
I know it is silly to be bothered by such innocent things, and I don't think there is anything *wrong* with either of these things -- but honestly, at a deep level I have a squicked-out reaction.
I guess I'm sharing this just to point out that some people may react weirdly, and to maybe suggest that you distinguish behavior that's OK in your house and family, and behavior that's OK in friends' houses or in public or if you travel.
posted by asynchronous at 8:42 PM on October 5, 2011 [3 favorites]
Best answer: 27, female, and southern here. My grandma is the only relative I still lip-kiss with; my parents stopped doing it awhile ago. Otherwise, though, I'd say my family is really hippie about this stuff My mom and my 25-year-old sister and I are all pretty cool about changing in front of each other (my other sister who's still a teenager is a little shyer), and my mom has been known to leave the bathroom door open when she pees if it's just us girls around. I took baths with my siblings (sisters and brothers) well into elementary school, and my two youngest siblings (a boy and a girl) shared a bedroom until they were 9 and 6 (these last two things go into the territory of "other people will think you are weird," though, fwiw). I like to think that all of us are reasonably well-adjusted people with relatively few body hang-ups.
My parents are divorced and my dad is a different story - I have only seen my dad naked once that I can remember (so, since age 3 or 4) and it was a total accident.
As a side note, I've had major medical problems on and off throughout my teens and early adulthood, which have, on a few occasions, involved my needing assistance with everything from dressing to bathing to basic bodily functions. My mom, oldest sister, and grandma have all been there for me through this. I'm sure most families would adapt fine to such a special situation, but I also feel that our history of having generally relaxed attitudes toward the human body helped me maintain some sense of dignity through things that could have potentially been kind of humiliating.
posted by naoko at 9:06 PM on October 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
My parents are divorced and my dad is a different story - I have only seen my dad naked once that I can remember (so, since age 3 or 4) and it was a total accident.
As a side note, I've had major medical problems on and off throughout my teens and early adulthood, which have, on a few occasions, involved my needing assistance with everything from dressing to bathing to basic bodily functions. My mom, oldest sister, and grandma have all been there for me through this. I'm sure most families would adapt fine to such a special situation, but I also feel that our history of having generally relaxed attitudes toward the human body helped me maintain some sense of dignity through things that could have potentially been kind of humiliating.
posted by naoko at 9:06 PM on October 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I still kiss my mother on the lips and see her naked (or nearly naked) more often than I expect. I can remember my dad running around the house in his underwear a bit though high school, but probably haven't seen him naked since I was four or five. I also don't remember kissing him on the lips, but I probably did when I was little. I'm a woman for what that's worth. My husband and I are naked in front of my daughter and kiss her on the lips, but he occasionally questions how long that will be appropriate (mostly the naked stuff and how long he should be seeing her naked).
In retrospect, considering how often my mother is naked, she taught me to be extremely ashamed of my body. So, whatever you decide, avoid the shaming them.
posted by defreckled at 9:11 PM on October 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
In retrospect, considering how often my mother is naked, she taught me to be extremely ashamed of my body. So, whatever you decide, avoid the shaming them.
posted by defreckled at 9:11 PM on October 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
IMHO if you're going to lip-kiss and share your adult nudity with your children, (a) I agree with stopping with the nudity once your kids are old enough to remember in detail, and (b) making it very clear that you are the ONLY adults who have permission to kiss these super-awesome kids. Oh and (c) of course, stop on either front should they express that it's no longer a mutual affection.
or you can talk to them about how if anyone touches them in a way they don't like - even if it doesn't involve kissing - that they should tell someone.
and let them go on being happy and comfortable with their parents.
posted by jb at 9:26 PM on October 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
or you can talk to them about how if anyone touches them in a way they don't like - even if it doesn't involve kissing - that they should tell someone.
and let them go on being happy and comfortable with their parents.
posted by jb at 9:26 PM on October 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
Just from personal experience, I'd agree with GastrocNemesis that there are kids who won't tell you they're uncomfortable if it occurs to them that it might make you feel bad. (Probably not many toddlers, though.) But then, it sounds like your occasional nudity is pretty contained and predictable and easy to walk away from.
posted by Adventurer at 9:38 PM on October 5, 2011
posted by Adventurer at 9:38 PM on October 5, 2011
The idea that "at a certain age" it becomes wrong sounds a bit pervy and unhealthy to me. The concept of seeing the human body and having human contact is unhealthy is troubling. If they want to still kiss you on the lips they will. If they don't, they won't. If it is easier and more convenient to be naked and change in front of others, they will. If they have an issue and need to be private that's fine, too. There is no "age". Just let them create it however they want.
posted by Vaike at 11:10 PM on October 5, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by Vaike at 11:10 PM on October 5, 2011 [2 favorites]
I inherited massive body shame from my parents and vividly remember the embarrassment of being told I was 'too old' to pile up on the couch next to my dad to watch tv. (I was about 8 and knew enough to be humiliated, but not enough to know why.)
On the other hand, my grown daughter and I kiss on the lips, and at her request we went to the nude hippie spa for her birthday last year.
Families vary so wildly that it doesn't make sense to use age to dictate your behavior. Just do what works best for your circumstances and let the most modest person lead the way.
posted by Space Kitty at 11:32 PM on October 5, 2011 [2 favorites]
On the other hand, my grown daughter and I kiss on the lips, and at her request we went to the nude hippie spa for her birthday last year.
Families vary so wildly that it doesn't make sense to use age to dictate your behavior. Just do what works best for your circumstances and let the most modest person lead the way.
posted by Space Kitty at 11:32 PM on October 5, 2011 [2 favorites]
Best answer: or you can talk to them about how if anyone touches them in a way they don't like - even if it doesn't involve kissing - that they should tell someone.
In our house we apply this to all touch, from anyone. That means if my daughter doesn't want a cuddle from me, she can tell me to stop. If her grandmother wants a kiss she can say no. If I'm making dinner and she's hanging off me and I tell her to go away. I think it's important to teach kids they have dominion over their own bodies from a really young age, toddlerish, even if it means hurting the feelings of people who love them. Because, horrible but true, kids are far more often molested by adults they trust and love than by strangers. They need to be able to tell anyone to keep their hands off. The second part of the rule is that she comes and tells me immediately if someone has touched her in a way she didn't want.
I think when to kiss or not kiss, when to be naked and when to be dressed has to be led by the kids. And no, I don't think kids will necessarily come out and tell you they are uncomfortable. I showered with my father until I was maybe 9 or 10 and then, kind of suddenly, it was mortifying and made me really uncomfortable. But because I didn't want to hurt his feelings I didn't say anything, I just kept "sleeping in" and not getting to the shower until he was already gone. It didn't take long for my mother to figure it out and tell me that if I was uncomfortable then of course I didn't have to shower with him.
Similarly, you don't have to wait for your kids to cover their eyes or make gagging noises when you walk around naked, but pay attention to when they start covering themselves and being shy with you. That's when it's time to be similarly private yourself.
My folks were fairly nakedy when my brother and I were small, but then it stopped. I can't remember for sure, but imagine it was probably around the same time as the showering discomfort. But my parents, my daughter and I travel together fairly regularly, and they visit us often, so we see my dad in his underwear a lot. We do a lot of Ewwww and GRANDPA! but it's totally a joke. My mom has a lot of body shame, and stays totally covered now. I'm naked around my kid all the time, mostly the bathroom to bedroom trek, and I also sleep naked. She's still good with it and LOVES being naked herself. She's 8.
As for the kissing, I kiss her on the mouth all the time--pecks! a split second smack!--along with cheek kisses and butterfly kisses and nose rubbing, etc. And my parents and I still smack hello, too, when we first see each other after an extended (usually 2-3 month) absence. And then a kiss good-bye. I totally don't see it as a big deal. I do, however, see how others might, since the thought of kissing my brother on the lips make me do a full body shudder. I think this one is REALLY cultural.
posted by looli at 12:25 AM on October 6, 2011 [2 favorites]
In our house we apply this to all touch, from anyone. That means if my daughter doesn't want a cuddle from me, she can tell me to stop. If her grandmother wants a kiss she can say no. If I'm making dinner and she's hanging off me and I tell her to go away. I think it's important to teach kids they have dominion over their own bodies from a really young age, toddlerish, even if it means hurting the feelings of people who love them. Because, horrible but true, kids are far more often molested by adults they trust and love than by strangers. They need to be able to tell anyone to keep their hands off. The second part of the rule is that she comes and tells me immediately if someone has touched her in a way she didn't want.
I think when to kiss or not kiss, when to be naked and when to be dressed has to be led by the kids. And no, I don't think kids will necessarily come out and tell you they are uncomfortable. I showered with my father until I was maybe 9 or 10 and then, kind of suddenly, it was mortifying and made me really uncomfortable. But because I didn't want to hurt his feelings I didn't say anything, I just kept "sleeping in" and not getting to the shower until he was already gone. It didn't take long for my mother to figure it out and tell me that if I was uncomfortable then of course I didn't have to shower with him.
Similarly, you don't have to wait for your kids to cover their eyes or make gagging noises when you walk around naked, but pay attention to when they start covering themselves and being shy with you. That's when it's time to be similarly private yourself.
My folks were fairly nakedy when my brother and I were small, but then it stopped. I can't remember for sure, but imagine it was probably around the same time as the showering discomfort. But my parents, my daughter and I travel together fairly regularly, and they visit us often, so we see my dad in his underwear a lot. We do a lot of Ewwww and GRANDPA! but it's totally a joke. My mom has a lot of body shame, and stays totally covered now. I'm naked around my kid all the time, mostly the bathroom to bedroom trek, and I also sleep naked. She's still good with it and LOVES being naked herself. She's 8.
As for the kissing, I kiss her on the mouth all the time--pecks! a split second smack!--along with cheek kisses and butterfly kisses and nose rubbing, etc. And my parents and I still smack hello, too, when we first see each other after an extended (usually 2-3 month) absence. And then a kiss good-bye. I totally don't see it as a big deal. I do, however, see how others might, since the thought of kissing my brother on the lips make me do a full body shudder. I think this one is REALLY cultural.
posted by looli at 12:25 AM on October 6, 2011 [2 favorites]
I'm 31 and I still occasionally kiss my parents on the lips. My mom will still get nekkid in front of me (though I stopped ever being naked around her and my dad when I was about 9 or 10). My five-year-old brother kisses me on the lips. My sisters I only hug, which only now seems strange to me, especially since I kiss almost all of my friends (cheeks, usually) and one of my sisters is one of my best friends and I lived with her for six years until just recently (though that might explain why I never kiss her -- she is/was always around).
Like looli, both my parents were pretty nakedy around us kids when we were small, but at some point my dad was rarely naked around us. I think that was a result of his own feelings of discomfort, and we never talked about it or questioned it as kids (just as we never questioned that my mom's body was totally acceptable to see naked).
I also grew up in a house that had a huge portrait of my topless mom breast-feeding my older sister as a baby prominently displayed on the living room wall. Heck, anyone could see my mom naked.
posted by Felicity Rilke at 1:21 AM on October 6, 2011
Like looli, both my parents were pretty nakedy around us kids when we were small, but at some point my dad was rarely naked around us. I think that was a result of his own feelings of discomfort, and we never talked about it or questioned it as kids (just as we never questioned that my mom's body was totally acceptable to see naked).
I also grew up in a house that had a huge portrait of my topless mom breast-feeding my older sister as a baby prominently displayed on the living room wall. Heck, anyone could see my mom naked.
posted by Felicity Rilke at 1:21 AM on October 6, 2011
Yeah, this is totally cultural. I read in a Brazilian parenting magazine last year an editorial about the "disgusting" habit some parents are adopting of kissing their children on the lips. It said something to the effect of "If you've got to do it, do it at home--we don't want to see that out in public." I found this interesting in a culture that is so invested in cheek-kissing everyone.
But to me, a kiss from my little guy (3.5) on the lips is one of the sweetest things there is. I will let him do it for as long as he wants to, or until I feel like it's getting creepy.
As far as nudity goes, we're at a point now that I try to wear at least a bra and panties in front of him. We talk about body parts (the kid loves his anatomy books) and gender differences but at a certain point I feel like he's got to also learn about social norms. That also means that he doesn't get to run around naked as much as he'd like either, although he does get to take "naked naps" sometimes. Because that's just fun.
posted by wallaby at 4:40 AM on October 6, 2011
But to me, a kiss from my little guy (3.5) on the lips is one of the sweetest things there is. I will let him do it for as long as he wants to, or until I feel like it's getting creepy.
As far as nudity goes, we're at a point now that I try to wear at least a bra and panties in front of him. We talk about body parts (the kid loves his anatomy books) and gender differences but at a certain point I feel like he's got to also learn about social norms. That also means that he doesn't get to run around naked as much as he'd like either, although he does get to take "naked naps" sometimes. Because that's just fun.
posted by wallaby at 4:40 AM on October 6, 2011
Best answer: I just want to come in and vote for "no sudden changes to the rules, and be super sensitive to what your kids are saying." Because I was a kid from a no-kissing-on-the-lips family (I had no idea until this thread that there were other kinds, heh) and a no-nakedness family. My stepmother (who joined us when I was almost 10) thought this needed correction and did things like drag me to the YMCA for swim lessons (with naked - naked! - showering in a public place afterwards) and there was a lot of deep awful "I hate my life" stuff at a vulnerable time for me because of it. Her different sense of boundaries and not-so-deft handling of these challenges probably contributed an extra year or three to the "I hate my evil stepmother" phase, and that messed with everyone's lives. My dad remains largely a no-nakedness dad with my younger siblings, and put the kibbosh on running around naked for them when they were in early elementary school. I was always glad, when they did that, that I lived with my mom full-time.
Also, there was a very strong sense in me from a very young age that these boundaries were different from my "oh my gosh you can't eat rabbit meat that's an impossible idea" kind of boundaries (which my stepmom also tried to modify... there was in fact a swim lesson with naked showering immediately prior to a French restaurant where I had to eat rabbit meat.) Something just to keep in mind generally. I pretty much can't describe how upset the "being naked is fine" stuff made me (I know it was irrational now, but at the time I felt like I was being physically threatened.) And I was not a "speak up and tell grown-ups when you're upset and frightened and kind of want to die" kid, so I don't think they knew how upset I was.
And, the "make SMPA nudity-positive" campaign failed spectacularly. I don't think you can force that kind of paradigm shift in an older kid, at least not without laying a lot of groundwork first. So if you think that pre-teens should be less naked in front of family than toddlers, start with the concept way before they're 9.
posted by SMPA at 5:57 AM on October 6, 2011
Also, there was a very strong sense in me from a very young age that these boundaries were different from my "oh my gosh you can't eat rabbit meat that's an impossible idea" kind of boundaries (which my stepmom also tried to modify... there was in fact a swim lesson with naked showering immediately prior to a French restaurant where I had to eat rabbit meat.) Something just to keep in mind generally. I pretty much can't describe how upset the "being naked is fine" stuff made me (I know it was irrational now, but at the time I felt like I was being physically threatened.) And I was not a "speak up and tell grown-ups when you're upset and frightened and kind of want to die" kid, so I don't think they knew how upset I was.
And, the "make SMPA nudity-positive" campaign failed spectacularly. I don't think you can force that kind of paradigm shift in an older kid, at least not without laying a lot of groundwork first. So if you think that pre-teens should be less naked in front of family than toddlers, start with the concept way before they're 9.
posted by SMPA at 5:57 AM on October 6, 2011
Best answer: Maybe I'm just summarizing everything else here, but it seems like this question is a collision between three different concepts:
1- Social mores
2- A person's right to choose their own level of nakedness
3- A parent's desire to help their kids be as well adjusted as possible.
Starting with 3, you don't want your kid to grow up with some kind of complex about nudity. You'd probably want them to be able to be comfortable with their own nudity, comfortable with locker-room nudity as they get into the school years where that is a possibility, comfortable with their partner's nudity as they grow up. So I agree that whatever guidelines you give your child probably shouldn't include any rules that have anything to do with their own body changes.
And there shouldn't be any shame in wanting to be naked. It's easy, it's fun, etc. OTOH, this is an important step in teaching them to respect the wishes of others. That's where the balancing act comes in. If dad wants to roam around the house naked and the kid is grossed out by it, how do you handle it? Dad's right to be nude crashes into the kid's right to not want to see the junk on display? If you acquiesce, the kid learns that nudity is weird and their desire to not see it trumps someone else's desire to let it all hang out. If you don't, the kid feels like their wishes aren't being respected. And I guess that comes down to that intuition for when a kid is just being apprehensive, and when a kid is having a full on freak-out.
Another thing to watch for is how you handle accidental nudity. All the positive vibes in the world aren't going to change what happens if dad has a freak out when the kid walks into the bathroom while he is nude.
(interesting to look at it from a different perspective: what do they do in families that practice nudism? How do they handle it when a child reaches the age when they start wanting to control their own nudity? Does that even happen?)
posted by gjc at 6:14 AM on October 6, 2011 [2 favorites]
1- Social mores
2- A person's right to choose their own level of nakedness
3- A parent's desire to help their kids be as well adjusted as possible.
Starting with 3, you don't want your kid to grow up with some kind of complex about nudity. You'd probably want them to be able to be comfortable with their own nudity, comfortable with locker-room nudity as they get into the school years where that is a possibility, comfortable with their partner's nudity as they grow up. So I agree that whatever guidelines you give your child probably shouldn't include any rules that have anything to do with their own body changes.
And there shouldn't be any shame in wanting to be naked. It's easy, it's fun, etc. OTOH, this is an important step in teaching them to respect the wishes of others. That's where the balancing act comes in. If dad wants to roam around the house naked and the kid is grossed out by it, how do you handle it? Dad's right to be nude crashes into the kid's right to not want to see the junk on display? If you acquiesce, the kid learns that nudity is weird and their desire to not see it trumps someone else's desire to let it all hang out. If you don't, the kid feels like their wishes aren't being respected. And I guess that comes down to that intuition for when a kid is just being apprehensive, and when a kid is having a full on freak-out.
Another thing to watch for is how you handle accidental nudity. All the positive vibes in the world aren't going to change what happens if dad has a freak out when the kid walks into the bathroom while he is nude.
(interesting to look at it from a different perspective: what do they do in families that practice nudism? How do they handle it when a child reaches the age when they start wanting to control their own nudity? Does that even happen?)
posted by gjc at 6:14 AM on October 6, 2011 [2 favorites]
I'm an only child, I have no children.
There was lots of silly naked time in our house. I suspect this is because I was (apparently) one of those kids who wanted to be naked so they just sort of went with it and figured I'd grow out of it.* I remember having a clear understanding that this attitude was for our family and would be inappropriate outside our house. One of the ways this was reinforced was this: we had this inside joke of sorts that if we saw any of the bits and pieces, we would mock gasp, look melodramatically shocked and point at eachother. this was typically met with either quick covering or silly towel-snapping antics. No shame, but still getting the message across.
By the time I was in my late teens, it had settled into a sort of 'be mostly covered in the parts of the house that you have no reason to be naked in.
This is still more or less the current policy, with a dash of " at this point, who's looking?"
We kiss on the lips, cheeks, head, or whatever we can reach. I had a period where i thought it was weird to kiss my dad on the lips, but he usually does this cartoony MWWWAHH smack sound for just the tiniest of pecks, and god help me if it doesn't make me feel warm and fuzzy every time.
tl/tw;dr: let your kids guide you. If you find you're intolerably uncomfortable, find a way to handle it without shame.
*that didn't so much ever happen.
posted by ApathyGirl at 7:01 AM on October 6, 2011
There was lots of silly naked time in our house. I suspect this is because I was (apparently) one of those kids who wanted to be naked so they just sort of went with it and figured I'd grow out of it.* I remember having a clear understanding that this attitude was for our family and would be inappropriate outside our house. One of the ways this was reinforced was this: we had this inside joke of sorts that if we saw any of the bits and pieces, we would mock gasp, look melodramatically shocked and point at eachother. this was typically met with either quick covering or silly towel-snapping antics. No shame, but still getting the message across.
By the time I was in my late teens, it had settled into a sort of 'be mostly covered in the parts of the house that you have no reason to be naked in.
This is still more or less the current policy, with a dash of " at this point, who's looking?"
We kiss on the lips, cheeks, head, or whatever we can reach. I had a period where i thought it was weird to kiss my dad on the lips, but he usually does this cartoony MWWWAHH smack sound for just the tiniest of pecks, and god help me if it doesn't make me feel warm and fuzzy every time.
tl/tw;dr: let your kids guide you. If you find you're intolerably uncomfortable, find a way to handle it without shame.
*that didn't so much ever happen.
posted by ApathyGirl at 7:01 AM on October 6, 2011
In retrospect, considering how often my mother is naked, she taught me to be extremely ashamed of my body. So, whatever you decide, avoid the shaming them.
Seconding this! I'm 27 and have a pretty good body image in spite of my mother(I'm female). She made comments about my pudge and other things when I was a teenager, which caused some insecurities that eventually went away, but I was very self-conscious about certain things until I realized that she was projecting her own insecurities onto me. I was never fat, so it was just normal pudge that I still have to this day even though I'm in good shape. Since you're even asking this question it doesn't seem like you will be this type of parent though.
She also made it really awkward when I wanted to get my first bra and forget asking anything about sex. I actually did see her naked quite a bit when I was a kid though, mostly when she got out of the shower and she still changes in front of me.
I don't like kissing anyone on the lips unless it's a SO.
posted by fromageball at 9:05 AM on October 7, 2011
Seconding this! I'm 27 and have a pretty good body image in spite of my mother(I'm female). She made comments about my pudge and other things when I was a teenager, which caused some insecurities that eventually went away, but I was very self-conscious about certain things until I realized that she was projecting her own insecurities onto me. I was never fat, so it was just normal pudge that I still have to this day even though I'm in good shape. Since you're even asking this question it doesn't seem like you will be this type of parent though.
She also made it really awkward when I wanted to get my first bra and forget asking anything about sex. I actually did see her naked quite a bit when I was a kid though, mostly when she got out of the shower and she still changes in front of me.
I don't like kissing anyone on the lips unless it's a SO.
posted by fromageball at 9:05 AM on October 7, 2011
I had no idea people thought that intra-family pecks on the lips was weird or gross! I was raised in Texas by parents from California and Idaho. Both I and my husband kiss (peck! these are peck kisses - people understand that, right?) our 8 year old daughter on the lips.
The nakedness thing - incidental same-sex nudity happens, and it's not a big deal. Opposite sex nudity has been avoided for a while now, since preschool age I think.
posted by jeoc at 1:25 PM on October 9, 2011
The nakedness thing - incidental same-sex nudity happens, and it's not a big deal. Opposite sex nudity has been avoided for a while now, since preschool age I think.
posted by jeoc at 1:25 PM on October 9, 2011
This thread is closed to new comments.
Nudity is probably little more complex, in that there are nudity-ok spaces, maybe-ok spaces (like locker rooms) and clothing-required spaces (most everywhere else) and while I'd say learning that those boundaries exist and need to be respected is mandatory as soon as the kid can process the idea, whether or not your home is clothing optional or just the bathroom or whatever seems totally up to you. I can say that being ok being naked in appropriate circumstances is a handy skill to have in general.
posted by restless_nomad at 3:00 PM on October 5, 2011