How does a woman respond to a man who wants to "keep his options open?"
September 19, 2011 10:40 PM Subscribe
If a man tells a woman who's interested in him that he doesn't want to commit to exploring a relationship because he wants to "keep his options open," but he doesn't want to rule it out, how would/should/could she respond?
Also in this situation:
-The man wants to remain in contact and continue to get to know the woman, but just doesn't want to be commited to the one person.
-They have been on about 3-5 dates, but no sex or other physical contact has occurred yet.
-Distance is involved: they live in different states but have been on formal dates during visits. One or both of them are willing to move later on if a stronger relationship were to be formed.
-During the most recent date, the man largely ignored the woman and talked with and made plans to visit a different woman he just met (who lives in a different, third location), and did so while standing next to the first woman, who he asked on the date.
***
I'm asking because, clearly, I have observed and experienced this very situation, except that the sexes were reversed.
I'm asking because I really don't know (and am interested in seeing some examples of) how other people think women would/should/could respond to a man saying this to them, assuming she is going to respond in some manner, succintly or otherwise, in order to compare them to how the man in this situation responded to the woman.
Also in this situation:
-The man wants to remain in contact and continue to get to know the woman, but just doesn't want to be commited to the one person.
-They have been on about 3-5 dates, but no sex or other physical contact has occurred yet.
-Distance is involved: they live in different states but have been on formal dates during visits. One or both of them are willing to move later on if a stronger relationship were to be formed.
-During the most recent date, the man largely ignored the woman and talked with and made plans to visit a different woman he just met (who lives in a different, third location), and did so while standing next to the first woman, who he asked on the date.
***
I'm asking because, clearly, I have observed and experienced this very situation, except that the sexes were reversed.
I'm asking because I really don't know (and am interested in seeing some examples of) how other people think women would/should/could respond to a man saying this to them, assuming she is going to respond in some manner, succintly or otherwise, in order to compare them to how the man in this situation responded to the woman.
This post was deleted for the following reason: This is so full of hypotheticals that it is unclear what the question is here or, more specifically, what the problem is to be solved. If this is an actual human relations question perhaps be clearer as to what it is you are trying to resolve? -- vacapinta
-During the most recent date, the man largely ignored the woman and talked with and made plans to visit a different woman he just met (who lives in a different, third location), and did so while standing next to the first woman, who he asked on the date.
"If you can't be bothered to treat me with decent courtesy while we're on a date, then don't let the door hit your ass on the way out."
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 10:44 PM on September 19, 2011 [3 favorites]
"If you can't be bothered to treat me with decent courtesy while we're on a date, then don't let the door hit your ass on the way out."
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 10:44 PM on September 19, 2011 [3 favorites]
Wow. Why are you even considering this guy? The correct answer here is "delete his number and never speak to him again."
posted by two lights above the sea at 10:45 PM on September 19, 2011
posted by two lights above the sea at 10:45 PM on September 19, 2011
Response by poster: Wow. Why are you even considering this guy? The correct answer here is "delete his number and never speak to him again."
Some follow-up questions related to this response:
Would you walk out during the date? At what point? Would you say something before leaving? Or would you stick out the last date and then say something and end contact?What if the man was a best friend of one of your girl-friends?
posted by ottimo at 10:57 PM on September 19, 2011
Some follow-up questions related to this response:
Would you walk out during the date? At what point? Would you say something before leaving? Or would you stick out the last date and then say something and end contact?What if the man was a best friend of one of your girl-friends?
posted by ottimo at 10:57 PM on September 19, 2011
If the woman genuinely and completely doesn't give a hoot whether the man wants to keep his options open, or whether he ignores her and focuses his attention on setting up dates with other people during their own dates, and she doesn't find this behavior disrespectful, rude, or hurtful at all, and she wants to keep dating this man, then she should keep dating this man.
If this woman feels, as I do, that this man is gobsmackingly rude with his behavior on the date, then she should not keep dating him or keep "getting to know" him. If this woman feels, as I would, like this man was not that into her and she was just good enough while he fished around to see if he could catch something better, then she should stand up for herself by not interacting with him anymore. If this woman is the one entertaining ideas of moving to be with this man, an act of higher than normal sacrifice and commitment for this stage in the relationship, despite everything he says and does indicating LOWER than normal sacrifice and commitment towards her at this stage in the relationship, then she should see a therapist because I'm worried she's prone to getting herself really hurt.
posted by Ashley801 at 10:57 PM on September 19, 2011 [4 favorites]
If this woman feels, as I do, that this man is gobsmackingly rude with his behavior on the date, then she should not keep dating him or keep "getting to know" him. If this woman feels, as I would, like this man was not that into her and she was just good enough while he fished around to see if he could catch something better, then she should stand up for herself by not interacting with him anymore. If this woman is the one entertaining ideas of moving to be with this man, an act of higher than normal sacrifice and commitment for this stage in the relationship, despite everything he says and does indicating LOWER than normal sacrifice and commitment towards her at this stage in the relationship, then she should see a therapist because I'm worried she's prone to getting herself really hurt.
posted by Ashley801 at 10:57 PM on September 19, 2011 [4 favorites]
Would you walk out during the date? At what point? Would you say something before leaving?
For whatever it's worth, I wouldn't even be ON the date if the guy told me he didn't want to commit and wanted to keep his options open. If he hadn't brought that up yet, I'd be ending the date when he did bring it up -- not "walking out" but more like "hey, I really respect that you told me that and appreciate it... I know I'm looking for something different than that though, so it looks like we should go our separate ways."
If for some reason I stuck around to the point where he was hitting on other women, I would probably just get up and leave without saying anything. If I did say something, it would probably be, "wow, I find this really rude, I'm out of here."
posted by Ashley801 at 11:00 PM on September 19, 2011 [3 favorites]
For whatever it's worth, I wouldn't even be ON the date if the guy told me he didn't want to commit and wanted to keep his options open. If he hadn't brought that up yet, I'd be ending the date when he did bring it up -- not "walking out" but more like "hey, I really respect that you told me that and appreciate it... I know I'm looking for something different than that though, so it looks like we should go our separate ways."
If for some reason I stuck around to the point where he was hitting on other women, I would probably just get up and leave without saying anything. If I did say something, it would probably be, "wow, I find this really rude, I'm out of here."
posted by Ashley801 at 11:00 PM on September 19, 2011 [3 favorites]
Would you walk out during the date? At what point? Would you say something before leaving? Or would you stick out the last date and then say something and end contact?
I would absolutely walk out. When? Probably at the point in which he is talking to the other woman. And nope, I wouldn't say a thing.
What if the man was a best friend of one of your girl-friends?
I would tell my friend that we didn't hit it off. That's all they need to know.
posted by two lights above the sea at 11:07 PM on September 19, 2011 [1 favorite]
I would absolutely walk out. When? Probably at the point in which he is talking to the other woman. And nope, I wouldn't say a thing.
What if the man was a best friend of one of your girl-friends?
I would tell my friend that we didn't hit it off. That's all they need to know.
posted by two lights above the sea at 11:07 PM on September 19, 2011 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Sorry to keep adding layers, but I'm learning from the responses what I left out that may be pertinent. So, a couple more facts about the proposed situation:
-The last date, to which the man asked the woman, was the wedding of a good friend of both of them. The woman had to factor in the consideration of causing discord during the reception of one of her good friends by responding to the man, who was also a good friend of the one getting married.
-The statement about "keeping options open" occurred later, after the wedding/reception.
So, I guess there are two more questions: how to behave during the wedding while the man is flirting with another woman, and how to respond later on, when he says he doesn't want to commit to exclusivity.
posted by ottimo at 11:14 PM on September 19, 2011
-The last date, to which the man asked the woman, was the wedding of a good friend of both of them. The woman had to factor in the consideration of causing discord during the reception of one of her good friends by responding to the man, who was also a good friend of the one getting married.
-The statement about "keeping options open" occurred later, after the wedding/reception.
So, I guess there are two more questions: how to behave during the wedding while the man is flirting with another woman, and how to respond later on, when he says he doesn't want to commit to exclusivity.
posted by ottimo at 11:14 PM on September 19, 2011
Not wanting to commit after 3-5 dates when you don't live in the same city? I'd have no problem with that. I wouldn't want to commit either. In that circumstance everyone should be keeping their options open.
Asking someone else out while we were on a date? At that point I think I'd have "got to know" him enough, thankyouverymuch.
I wouldn't be too impressed with the other woman wither. Since neither one of them sounds like a prize I'd probably leave them to get to know each other better and explore my options with the other guests. But I'm judgmental like that. I certainly wouldn't make a scene but I wouldn't be sharing a cab back to the hotel.
posted by fshgrl at 11:22 PM on September 19, 2011 [1 favorite]
Asking someone else out while we were on a date? At that point I think I'd have "got to know" him enough, thankyouverymuch.
I wouldn't be too impressed with the other woman wither. Since neither one of them sounds like a prize I'd probably leave them to get to know each other better and explore my options with the other guests. But I'm judgmental like that. I certainly wouldn't make a scene but I wouldn't be sharing a cab back to the hotel.
posted by fshgrl at 11:22 PM on September 19, 2011 [1 favorite]
Weddings scare some men who are immature. This context clue says a lot to me.
I'd avoid him.
posted by These Birds of a Feather at 11:26 PM on September 19, 2011
I'd avoid him.
posted by These Birds of a Feather at 11:26 PM on September 19, 2011
Are you at this wedding RIGHT NOW? Or are you really just wondering what a bunch of Internet strangers would have done in your place?
posted by two lights above the sea at 11:27 PM on September 19, 2011
posted by two lights above the sea at 11:27 PM on September 19, 2011
So, I guess there are two more questions: how to behave during the wedding while the man is flirting with another woman, and how to respond later on, when he says he doesn't want to commit to exclusivity.
-It was right to not make a scene at the wedding and wait until later to talk about it.
-Honestly, I personally don't think I would even talk about the wedding flirtation if I'd only gone out with this person 3-5 times, even before they gave me the non-exclusive speech. Life is too short. I would bail.
-If I felt the need to say anything, I would say that they really hurt and embarrassed me at the wedding, and that I wished they had brought up the non-exclusive thing beforehand so I could have declined the date.
posted by Ashley801 at 11:28 PM on September 19, 2011 [1 favorite]
-It was right to not make a scene at the wedding and wait until later to talk about it.
-Honestly, I personally don't think I would even talk about the wedding flirtation if I'd only gone out with this person 3-5 times, even before they gave me the non-exclusive speech. Life is too short. I would bail.
-If I felt the need to say anything, I would say that they really hurt and embarrassed me at the wedding, and that I wished they had brought up the non-exclusive thing beforehand so I could have declined the date.
posted by Ashley801 at 11:28 PM on September 19, 2011 [1 favorite]
During the wedding: smile, be polite, don't make a scene, stay for the duration of the ceremony and for as much of the reception as you can manage.
After the wedding: "it doesn't feel like we are on the same page, I think maybe we should drop this."
And end contact.
posted by That's Numberwang! at 11:32 PM on September 19, 2011 [1 favorite]
After the wedding: "it doesn't feel like we are on the same page, I think maybe we should drop this."
And end contact.
posted by That's Numberwang! at 11:32 PM on September 19, 2011 [1 favorite]
Thoroughly uncool, but I would recommend simply declining future dates, as well as canceling any existing. Tell him it's not a good match if he asks.
This isn't so much about exclusivity and how many dates you've been on, it's about manners. You don't shit in the punchbowl and you don't flirt while out with someone you're dating. Any adult should be able to handle those two rules at the very least.
posted by rhizome at 11:33 PM on September 19, 2011 [1 favorite]
This isn't so much about exclusivity and how many dates you've been on, it's about manners. You don't shit in the punchbowl and you don't flirt while out with someone you're dating. Any adult should be able to handle those two rules at the very least.
posted by rhizome at 11:33 PM on September 19, 2011 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Are you at this wedding RIGHT NOW? Or are you really just wondering what a bunch of Internet strangers would have done in your place?
No, I'm not at the wedding now. I was at the wedding upon which this proposed situation is based, which took place recently--within the past week.
In part, yes, I am interested in what a bunch of internet strangers would do or think should be done in this situation--but more specifically, I'm interested in what a bunch of Metafilter internet strangers would do or think should be done.
As I mentioned in the question, in the actual situation, the sexes were reversed, and I'm interested in part in comparing how the actual man behaved compared to how women would behave (or how men think women would/could behave).
posted by ottimo at 11:42 PM on September 19, 2011
No, I'm not at the wedding now. I was at the wedding upon which this proposed situation is based, which took place recently--within the past week.
In part, yes, I am interested in what a bunch of internet strangers would do or think should be done in this situation--but more specifically, I'm interested in what a bunch of Metafilter internet strangers would do or think should be done.
As I mentioned in the question, in the actual situation, the sexes were reversed, and I'm interested in part in comparing how the actual man behaved compared to how women would behave (or how men think women would/could behave).
posted by ottimo at 11:42 PM on September 19, 2011
It's unclear to me whether the man considers them friends, or he considers them as dating. "Getting to know each other" can be as friends or as people dating. Has he made it clear whether they are actually dating, or whether they are "just friends"? If they are friends, I don't see anything wrong with his behavior. However you refer to these as "dates". Are both parties clear they are on a "date"?
posted by bearette at 11:48 PM on September 19, 2011
posted by bearette at 11:48 PM on September 19, 2011
Talked to another woman during your date? That should not fly. Blow this guy off, just like he appears to be doing with you.
posted by Gilbert at 11:52 PM on September 19, 2011
posted by Gilbert at 11:52 PM on September 19, 2011
Response by poster: Are both parties clear they are on a "date"?
Yes. Very much so. Only a little less "on a date" than "my wedding date." And the man is from out of town and asked the woman, who lives where the wedding is taking place, if she would be his date on the wedding. The woman responded by offering him a place to stay, a ride in from the airport, and general entertainment and company and other date-like activities throughout the visit, not just on the wedding day.
fshgrl: with this type of question, I guess I'm not looking only for answers I like, but fwiw, I like yours. What would you say if the man later tried to explain that he wasn't flirting, but just being his normal very social self (with some evidence to back up the fact that he is generally very social), but it was quite clear to you that his attention was focused exclusively on the new woman (as opposed to her just being one of many guests he was chatting up)??
[I know I'm getting chatty now, but if it matters, I'm still interested in specific responses.]
posted by ottimo at 12:08 AM on September 20, 2011
Yes. Very much so. Only a little less "on a date" than "my wedding date." And the man is from out of town and asked the woman, who lives where the wedding is taking place, if she would be his date on the wedding. The woman responded by offering him a place to stay, a ride in from the airport, and general entertainment and company and other date-like activities throughout the visit, not just on the wedding day.
fshgrl: with this type of question, I guess I'm not looking only for answers I like, but fwiw, I like yours. What would you say if the man later tried to explain that he wasn't flirting, but just being his normal very social self (with some evidence to back up the fact that he is generally very social), but it was quite clear to you that his attention was focused exclusively on the new woman (as opposed to her just being one of many guests he was chatting up)??
[I know I'm getting chatty now, but if it matters, I'm still interested in specific responses.]
posted by ottimo at 12:08 AM on September 20, 2011
Well, I have some friends (yes, mostly female) who wouldn't be interested in commitment anyway, whether because they are already in committed (open) relationships and that's not what they're looking for, or because that's just what they look for. However, I doubt that 3-5 dates would have passed for those ladies without physical contact, and I believe the ignoring and hitting on someone else would have turned any of them off.
Me, if I were single and looking, I would tell the gentleman in question that we really didn't seem to be going for the same thing, and, though I (presumably) liked him, and understood that we wouldn't likely be exclusive and in looooove after just a few dates while living in different cities anyway, if he was sufficiently uninterested in pursuing whatever we had had going on to spend a whole date (wedding or otherwise) ignoring me in favour of someone else, I felt it would be better just to drop it now. (That was one hell of a run-on sentence, but perhaps that's exactly how I'd put it?)
When I think of a situation in which the sexes were reversed (as they apparently were), I can only imagine that most of my male friends would be similarly put off by the ignoring incident. Especially those who tend toward monogamy. Bear in mind that however the man in question behaved, there are inevitably plenty of men who would have reacted quite differently, just as not all women would react the same way. But no matter who is doing that to whom, it's pretty disrespectful.
posted by Because at 12:10 AM on September 20, 2011
Me, if I were single and looking, I would tell the gentleman in question that we really didn't seem to be going for the same thing, and, though I (presumably) liked him, and understood that we wouldn't likely be exclusive and in looooove after just a few dates while living in different cities anyway, if he was sufficiently uninterested in pursuing whatever we had had going on to spend a whole date (wedding or otherwise) ignoring me in favour of someone else, I felt it would be better just to drop it now. (That was one hell of a run-on sentence, but perhaps that's exactly how I'd put it?)
When I think of a situation in which the sexes were reversed (as they apparently were), I can only imagine that most of my male friends would be similarly put off by the ignoring incident. Especially those who tend toward monogamy. Bear in mind that however the man in question behaved, there are inevitably plenty of men who would have reacted quite differently, just as not all women would react the same way. But no matter who is doing that to whom, it's pretty disrespectful.
posted by Because at 12:10 AM on September 20, 2011
Your question is confusing, but I'll try to answer part of it.
As a guy, making it clear that I want to keep seeing other people after 3-5 dates during which there has been no physical contact seems totally reasonable. Been there, had that awkward conversation.
The phrase "keep my options open" feels super douchey, though, coming from a man or a woman.
posted by auto-correct at 12:11 AM on September 20, 2011
As a guy, making it clear that I want to keep seeing other people after 3-5 dates during which there has been no physical contact seems totally reasonable. Been there, had that awkward conversation.
The phrase "keep my options open" feels super douchey, though, coming from a man or a woman.
posted by auto-correct at 12:11 AM on September 20, 2011
Definitely right not to make a scene during your friend's wedding but I would not have hung around while he was flirting with another woman. If this was the wedding of a mutual friend then surely there was someone else there that you knew and could go talk to? If not I'd have taken the opportunity to get to know one of the more attractive gentlemen (but I'm petty like that ;))
As to the rest, well I wouldn't be dating someone not local (I hate to travel and I certainly wouldn't be travelling more than 30 minutes for a casual date that wasn't even a relationship yet). Also, where I'm from exclusivity is the default state but I believe that isn't the case in the US. In those circumstances I see nothing wrong with letting the other person know where they stand so they can make an informed choice as to whether they want to proceed. I see from your profile that you're mid-30s, that's the sort of age where a lot of women aren't looking for 'maybe', if they want kids in the traditional way then they need a solid relationship right now. You say that in reality the genders were reversed and maybe that's what was going on, she wants to hold out for Mr Right but she's running out of time and if she doesn't find this mythical beast, you'll do.
I think when its said after 3-5 dates, rather than up-front then what is really meant is "I'm not looking to explore a relationship with you", they are looking to get into a serious relationship but they're holding out for someone better and are keeping you on hold in case they don't turn up.
posted by missmagenta at 12:14 AM on September 20, 2011
As to the rest, well I wouldn't be dating someone not local (I hate to travel and I certainly wouldn't be travelling more than 30 minutes for a casual date that wasn't even a relationship yet). Also, where I'm from exclusivity is the default state but I believe that isn't the case in the US. In those circumstances I see nothing wrong with letting the other person know where they stand so they can make an informed choice as to whether they want to proceed. I see from your profile that you're mid-30s, that's the sort of age where a lot of women aren't looking for 'maybe', if they want kids in the traditional way then they need a solid relationship right now. You say that in reality the genders were reversed and maybe that's what was going on, she wants to hold out for Mr Right but she's running out of time and if she doesn't find this mythical beast, you'll do.
I think when its said after 3-5 dates, rather than up-front then what is really meant is "I'm not looking to explore a relationship with you", they are looking to get into a serious relationship but they're holding out for someone better and are keeping you on hold in case they don't turn up.
posted by missmagenta at 12:14 AM on September 20, 2011
If a man tells a woman who's interested in him that he doesn't want to commit to exploring a relationship
The man wants to remain in contact and continue to get to know the woman, but just doesn't want to be commited to the one person.
no sex or other physical contact has occurred yet.
On a second reading, could bearette be right? That the man didn't see these as dates?
My initial reading was that the man wanted to continue having romantic interaction but didn't want to commit to exclusivity. But now I'm thinking I might have misread this?
Could it be that the man wanted to continue getting to know one another as friends, but just didn't want to commit to anything romantic? And had thought the dates were just get-togethers, not romantic date-dates?
That COMPLETELY changes my reading of the entire situation if true. That's not the same situation at all. Though, it is still rude to ignore the person you've invited out to talk to someone else.
Are both parties clear they are on a "date"?
Yes. Very much so. Only a little less "on a date" than "my wedding date."
This is extremely unclear. Does this mean that it was clear that both people were each other's "wedding dates" and that being a "wedding date" is something less/less romantic than being "on a date?" Is a "wedding date" something that like, my brother could be if I didn't have anyone else to go with? If so, this seems to also point to the man seeing this as platonic.
The woman responded by offering him a place to stay, a ride in from the airport, and general entertainment and company and other date-like activities throughout the visit, not just on the wedding day.
To me, those are not AT ALL clear-cut romantic date-like activities. Those could just as easily be platonic friend activities. To me, clear-cut romantic date-like activities include things like, I don't know, making out.
Back to this Are both parties clear they are on a "date"? On those prior dates, before the wedding, how was this made clear?
posted by Ashley801 at 12:21 AM on September 20, 2011 [1 favorite]
The man wants to remain in contact and continue to get to know the woman, but just doesn't want to be commited to the one person.
no sex or other physical contact has occurred yet.
On a second reading, could bearette be right? That the man didn't see these as dates?
My initial reading was that the man wanted to continue having romantic interaction but didn't want to commit to exclusivity. But now I'm thinking I might have misread this?
Could it be that the man wanted to continue getting to know one another as friends, but just didn't want to commit to anything romantic? And had thought the dates were just get-togethers, not romantic date-dates?
That COMPLETELY changes my reading of the entire situation if true. That's not the same situation at all. Though, it is still rude to ignore the person you've invited out to talk to someone else.
Are both parties clear they are on a "date"?
Yes. Very much so. Only a little less "on a date" than "my wedding date."
This is extremely unclear. Does this mean that it was clear that both people were each other's "wedding dates" and that being a "wedding date" is something less/less romantic than being "on a date?" Is a "wedding date" something that like, my brother could be if I didn't have anyone else to go with? If so, this seems to also point to the man seeing this as platonic.
The woman responded by offering him a place to stay, a ride in from the airport, and general entertainment and company and other date-like activities throughout the visit, not just on the wedding day.
To me, those are not AT ALL clear-cut romantic date-like activities. Those could just as easily be platonic friend activities. To me, clear-cut romantic date-like activities include things like, I don't know, making out.
Back to this Are both parties clear they are on a "date"? On those prior dates, before the wedding, how was this made clear?
posted by Ashley801 at 12:21 AM on September 20, 2011 [1 favorite]
Why reverse the sexes?
I think people can give better advice when they aren't confused.
In the situation that actually occurred, and on which you want feedback --
The man asked the woman to the wedding of a mutual friend as his date.
She responded with a ride and a place for them both to stay.
While at the wedding, she basically ignored him, and made a date with another man in front of him.
Later, after the wedding, she gave the keep-our-options-open talk.
He -- you -- is wondering what we thought about this.
Do I have that right?
If so, I think I'd feel a little bait-and-switched in the man's place. He thought he was on a date, and she, apparently, thought she was just going to a friend's wedding, with a guy she has had dates with. Maybe she is not an awful person as such, but she does not appear to have a strong romantic interest in our hero.
posted by pH Indicating Socks at 12:38 AM on September 20, 2011
I think people can give better advice when they aren't confused.
In the situation that actually occurred, and on which you want feedback --
The man asked the woman to the wedding of a mutual friend as his date.
She responded with a ride and a place for them both to stay.
While at the wedding, she basically ignored him, and made a date with another man in front of him.
Later, after the wedding, she gave the keep-our-options-open talk.
He -- you -- is wondering what we thought about this.
Do I have that right?
If so, I think I'd feel a little bait-and-switched in the man's place. He thought he was on a date, and she, apparently, thought she was just going to a friend's wedding, with a guy she has had dates with. Maybe she is not an awful person as such, but she does not appear to have a strong romantic interest in our hero.
posted by pH Indicating Socks at 12:38 AM on September 20, 2011
I agree that asking someone to be a "wedding date" does not say anything about the relationship between the two people. In this context, "date" just means someone to go to event with.
Is there other evidence that they both know they are dating dating?
posted by bearette at 12:40 AM on September 20, 2011
Is there other evidence that they both know they are dating dating?
posted by bearette at 12:40 AM on September 20, 2011
I agree that asking someone to be a "wedding date" does not say anything about the relationship between the two people
If you're dating someone (they'd been of 2-4 "formal" dates prior to the wedding) its not unreasonable to assume that when you're invited to be someone's "wedding date" that it is a date.
posted by missmagenta at 12:46 AM on September 20, 2011
Response by poster: Your question is confusing, but I'll try to answer part of it.
I know it is--the situation is somewhat complicated and doesn't have a clear answer, which I suppose is a main reason why I needed to ask the question. Thanks for offering your view as best as you can--I liked/appreciated what you had to say.
(...a little less "on a date" than "my wedding date.")...This is extremely unclear.
I think I was trying to convey that being someone's wedding date is a little different from a regular "dinner and movie"-type date...because sometimes at weddings, people sort of pair up as dates to be more of an escort for each other...a little different than asking someone out for a one-on-one dinner and movie-type thing. In the case I am basing the question on, it was less escort and more of a date, and the two had been out on the more "regular" type dates previously. And, both referred to each other as their "dates." And they were announced as a couple when the wedding party entered the reception, walked in together, and danced the first dance together. And as mentioned, the man in this semi-hypothetical situation specifically asked the woman to be his date at the wedding.
posted by ottimo at 12:46 AM on September 20, 2011
I know it is--the situation is somewhat complicated and doesn't have a clear answer, which I suppose is a main reason why I needed to ask the question. Thanks for offering your view as best as you can--I liked/appreciated what you had to say.
(...a little less "on a date" than "my wedding date.")...This is extremely unclear.
I think I was trying to convey that being someone's wedding date is a little different from a regular "dinner and movie"-type date...because sometimes at weddings, people sort of pair up as dates to be more of an escort for each other...a little different than asking someone out for a one-on-one dinner and movie-type thing. In the case I am basing the question on, it was less escort and more of a date, and the two had been out on the more "regular" type dates previously. And, both referred to each other as their "dates." And they were announced as a couple when the wedding party entered the reception, walked in together, and danced the first dance together. And as mentioned, the man in this semi-hypothetical situation specifically asked the woman to be his date at the wedding.
posted by ottimo at 12:46 AM on September 20, 2011
Time and place. It's uncool to do that when you're introduced as being dates and everyone assumes that's what you are and then you go and flirt elsewhere (or even anything that could be construed as flirting). I would've ignored him back and flirted elsewhere or left entirely, depending on how pissed off I was.
posted by mleigh at 1:03 AM on September 20, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by mleigh at 1:03 AM on September 20, 2011 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: The man asked the woman to the wedding of a mutual friend as his date.
She responded with a ride and a place for them both to stay.
While at the wedding, she basically ignored him, and made a date with another man in front of him.
Later, after the wedding, she gave the keep-our-options-open talk.
He -- you -- is wondering what we thought about this.
Do I have that right?
Sorry for the complications. The situation that ACTUALLY occurred is not the one I want feedback on. In reality, the woman told the man, "I want to keep my options open." The situation I want feedback on is the hypothetical reverse: one in which a man tells that to a woman...and how she would respond. Why reverse the sexes? Well, to see if it matters. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't.
So to correct the summary to make it accurate to the question I'm seeking answers for:
The man asked the woman to the wedding of a mutual friend as her date.
He responded with a ride and a place for them both to stay.
While at the wedding, he basically ignored her, and made a date with another woman in front of him.
Later, after the wedding, he gave the keep-our-options-open talk.
[He -- you -- is wondering what we thought about this.]--I am wondering how other women would have responded to him or how men think women could respond.
posted by ottimo at 1:06 AM on September 20, 2011
She responded with a ride and a place for them both to stay.
While at the wedding, she basically ignored him, and made a date with another man in front of him.
Later, after the wedding, she gave the keep-our-options-open talk.
He -- you -- is wondering what we thought about this.
Do I have that right?
Sorry for the complications. The situation that ACTUALLY occurred is not the one I want feedback on. In reality, the woman told the man, "I want to keep my options open." The situation I want feedback on is the hypothetical reverse: one in which a man tells that to a woman...and how she would respond. Why reverse the sexes? Well, to see if it matters. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't.
So to correct the summary to make it accurate to the question I'm seeking answers for:
The man asked the woman to the wedding of a mutual friend as her date.
He responded with a ride and a place for them both to stay.
While at the wedding, he basically ignored her, and made a date with another woman in front of him.
Later, after the wedding, he gave the keep-our-options-open talk.
[He -- you -- is wondering what we thought about this.]--I am wondering how other women would have responded to him or how men think women could respond.
posted by ottimo at 1:06 AM on September 20, 2011
So he asked youto be his date, you picked him up from the airport, ferried him around and opened your home to him for him to stay there... for him to ditch you at the wedding and by the sounds of it, spend most of the evening with another woman? And this is his version of keeping his options open? Well. What I would do (keeping in mind I am a bitch after all) is take his lead that evening, assume your date was officially over, talk to other men if you felt like it or not, and then leave alone at the end of the evening. He's essentially on a date with another woman, he can figure out how to leave the wedding, where he'll spend the night and how he's going to get to the airport the next day. No need to make a scene, just quietly exit and leave him to do his thing. He's obviously going to do it anyway but I would stop being his doormat. Then block his calls. People only treat you badly if you let them. Stop letting them.
posted by Jubey at 1:07 AM on September 20, 2011
posted by Jubey at 1:07 AM on September 20, 2011
Response by poster: Ugh...now I'm confused :p
I just f'd up that summary correction--please ignore it. I'll repost the correction in a sec.
posted by ottimo at 1:10 AM on September 20, 2011
I just f'd up that summary correction--please ignore it. I'll repost the correction in a sec.
posted by ottimo at 1:10 AM on September 20, 2011
Response by poster: The man asked the woman to the wedding of a mutual friend as his date.
She responded with a ride and a place for them both to stay.
While at the wedding, he basically ignored her, and made a date with another woman in front of her.
Later, after the wedding, he gave the keep-our-options-open talk.
She -- me in this scenario -- is wondering what we thought about this.
I think this is correct.
posted by ottimo at 1:15 AM on September 20, 2011
She responded with a ride and a place for them both to stay.
While at the wedding, he basically ignored her, and made a date with another woman in front of her.
Later, after the wedding, he gave the keep-our-options-open talk.
She -- me in this scenario -- is wondering what we thought about this.
I think this is correct.
posted by ottimo at 1:15 AM on September 20, 2011
I'm totally confused now, the whole changing of the sexes, why it matters if the sexes are reversed (bad behaviour is bad behaviour after all.) Whether you're the man or the woman in either scenario... maybe ask the mods to delete this, figure out what your question really is and try to post it in a clear concise way? Until we understand the question, no one can really help you. Sorry.
posted by Jubey at 1:23 AM on September 20, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by Jubey at 1:23 AM on September 20, 2011 [2 favorites]
I think OtherPerson may have been as confused as we are about what kind of situation they were in, and may have thought they were behaving appropriately in context. Or not. Anything's possible.
posted by tel3path at 1:28 AM on September 20, 2011
posted by tel3path at 1:28 AM on September 20, 2011
Response by poster: Most of the responses correctly address the question I was asking.
posted by ottimo at 1:30 AM on September 20, 2011
posted by ottimo at 1:30 AM on September 20, 2011
In the hypothetical Ottimo is the woman, the person wanting to keep their options open is the man. In the real situation, Ottimo is the man and the woman wanted to keep her options open. Its not really very complicated, so long as you're not trying to figure out why ottimo wants to know what women would have done in his situation when he's male.
posted by missmagenta at 1:32 AM on September 20, 2011
posted by missmagenta at 1:32 AM on September 20, 2011
Well, with the genders reversed, there is the additional being-seen-as-a-booty-call element, and many have commented from that point of view.
So what did the man do?
posted by pH Indicating Socks at 1:35 AM on September 20, 2011
So what did the man do?
posted by pH Indicating Socks at 1:35 AM on September 20, 2011
Response by poster: exactly--thank you missmagenta. (the reasons for the questions are nec. to know in order answer anyway).
posted by ottimo at 1:38 AM on September 20, 2011
posted by ottimo at 1:38 AM on September 20, 2011
Response by poster: **NOT nec., I mean.
Clearly, I need some sleep--will check back again tomorrow. (pH I will see if I can ans. your question then)
posted by ottimo at 1:40 AM on September 20, 2011
Clearly, I need some sleep--will check back again tomorrow. (pH I will see if I can ans. your question then)
posted by ottimo at 1:40 AM on September 20, 2011
Ottimo, either way says the same thing to me. The man/woman who made the date in front of the man/woman who thought they were on a date, is trying to morph their casual-dating relationship into a friendship, albeit clumsily and perhaps a little thoughtlessly.
The man/woman who thought they were dating is liable to feel a little put-out, but should, I think, gracefully let it slide - assume they are just friends from now on, and commence the Moving of On.
I'm not sure how switching the genders would change anything. Surely it only would to people burdened by stereotypes of male/female dating behaviour? If you let go of those, I really don't think it matters.
posted by greenish at 2:11 AM on September 20, 2011
The man/woman who thought they were dating is liable to feel a little put-out, but should, I think, gracefully let it slide - assume they are just friends from now on, and commence the Moving of On.
I'm not sure how switching the genders would change anything. Surely it only would to people burdened by stereotypes of male/female dating behaviour? If you let go of those, I really don't think it matters.
posted by greenish at 2:11 AM on September 20, 2011
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posted by DarlingBri at 10:41 PM on September 19, 2011 [1 favorite]