Is there ever a time where physical aggression in a relationship is forgivable?

May 2, 2011 11:41 PM

Is there ever a time where physical aggression in a relationship is forgivable?

I don't mean excusable or okay, but forgivable in the sense that the relationship is not over. I am wondering because I know things can be more complicated and can include provocation as well as amount of force.

posted by DeltaForce to Human Relations (16 answers total)

This is a weird question with no real answer.

Lots of people stay in violent relationships. Thousands if not millions. Does this make it okay? To who? For how long? "The relationship is not over" does not equal "forgivable".
posted by smoke at 11:45 PM on May 2, 2011

Sure. Sometimes people snap or react poorly - think of all the movies etc. where you see the husband get slapped, there are people out there who have that sort of reflex and need to do work in order to stop it (or, families which function just fine and non-abusively with a more physical style of argument, for that matter). But, if you're scaring your partner or making him/her feel threatened, then you need to do the work to change your behavior and your way of responding to things. In turn, they need to actually respond and recognize that you're upset even when you do your non-violent response - 'Please stop, that bothers me,' needs to be treated as seriously as a slap would be.
posted by Lady Li at 11:47 PM on May 2, 2011 [1 favorite]

To follow-up on that - big problems start to come up when the person isn't trying to find less violent/scary/intense ways of communicating their displeasure, or when they are displeased about everything ('controlling').
posted by Lady Li at 11:52 PM on May 2, 2011 [1 favorite]

Forgivable by whom? If you mean by the person against whom the aggression is carried out, then yes, of course it is. Lots of relationships continue despite one off, or occasional, or ongoing physical aggression.
posted by bardophile at 11:53 PM on May 2, 2011 [1 favorite]

Forgiveness is based on personal standards for one's treatment. So for some people even lethal violence is "forgivable".

If you aren't sure whether your personal standards should include an allowance for physical violence I'll give you a tip: no, your standards for your treatment in a relationship should not include an allowance for violence.
posted by Matt Oneiros at 11:57 PM on May 2, 2011 [5 favorites]

There is no answer to this. Well, I suppose there is, and that answer is "It depends, but usually, no." What it depends on is the people involved in the relationship, the nature of the incident, the provocation that preceded it, and everything else about the relationship. Not much of an answer, I know.

People can sometimes have an isolated crazy moment when they lose control and do something they regret. If it is deeply out of character I believe it is possible to get past it. If it is something that looks like a behavioural pattern I think the relationship is probably better ended. I suppose the same could be said for things like infidelity, although that's arguably a tougher one since it doesn't have the "heat of the moment" excuse - or at least not to the same degree.

A girlfriend once shoved me through a first-floor (second floor, for Americans) window. She didn't even consider that we were on the first floor, or that she was shoving me towards a window, or that I might go through it, fall and die, or be seriously injured. She just had a "red mist" moment, lashed out and something totally unintended happened. I was lucky: the drawn curtain over the window protected me from the shattered glass and I fell onto the kitchen roof outside - a very short drop. I was unhurt.

We got past that. That said, the relationship didn't last, and it was largely her ferociously irrational temper that finally drove me to end it. Generally, violence in a relationship is a huge red flag and it needs to be treated as such and taken very, very seriously. But I believe it is possible that it can be forgiveable and survivable.
posted by Decani at 12:16 AM on May 3, 2011

Depends. Sometimes tempers flare. Sometimes a huge fight scares people to the point that they get help with their relationship. Sometimes a person is pathologically abusive.
One can be forgiven, the other really can't.

Same goes for cheating. Sometimes it is a sign of a problem that can be 'fixed.' Sometimes a person sleeps around because she/he is incapable of being faithful. One is easier to forgive than the other.
posted by SLC Mom at 12:21 AM on May 3, 2011

This is unanswerable as it's written, but if you are talking about your partner being violent toward you here is the answer:

You set the rules for what you will put up with.

Also, even if you have put up with something in the past, every day is a new chance to say "forget it, this is ridiculous, I'm not putting up with it anymore."

Here is some advice: don't put up with violence, and don't put up with a partner who is aggressive with you in any way. Date people who are considerate, consistent, and in control of themselves. There are a lot of great potential partners out there who are considerate and never act aggressively toward loved ones, so you don't have to put up with someone treating you badly because of the fear of never finding anyone better. Love, loyalty, trust, companionship, and all those good things DO NOT come with violence. Cut your losses and find a fresh start.
posted by LobsterMitten at 12:34 AM on May 3, 2011 [1 favorite]

Walk away for a minute. If that is insufficient, walk away for an hour. If that is not enough, make it a day. If violence is still the other persons answer to the situation, walk away from the relationship. There will be no winners.
posted by scottymac at 12:38 AM on May 3, 2011

In my opinion, physical aggression is forgivable under certain particular circumstances. I mean, like some people said upthread, some people can have fights where they throw things at each other or what have you and feel pretty much okay about the whole thing afterwards. And intent matters: there's a difference between someone who consistently uses physical (or emotional, for that matter) aggression as a tool to get what s/he wants, and someone who shoves (or yells hurtful things) in the heat of the moment (although this does not make the latter behavior okay.)

But like some people said, you can leave a relationship for any reason you want. People can (and do!) leave relationships because they can't stand the way the other person eats soup. The thing that really worries me in your post is this:

I am wondering because I know things can be more complicated and can include provocation as well as amount of force.

...because it sounds, to me, like after-the-fact minimization of...something bad, and it really rings of "look what you made me do."

Even if something is forgivable, that's not the same as being dismissable. If something happened that made you (or your friend-who-you're-asking-for, or whomever) scared or feel unsafe or anything else bad, you have the right to hold the other person responsible, and make sure it never happens again. You should not be looking for justifications for why what they did was totally okay in hindsight, because that's not what makes something forgivable. What makes it forgivable is their willingness to change their behavior, for your sake.
posted by kagredon at 2:32 AM on May 3, 2011 [1 favorite]

Provocation does not excuse physical agression. Degree of Force does not negate the potential for it happening again, nor does it predict the degree of force that would be used the next time, nor change the 'wrongness' of the act.

Philosophically I have to say that physical agression is not a healthy part of any relationship, does not bode well for the future, and is a very likely predictor that the relationship will get worse and the agression more violent.

In answer to your question, of course, ANYTHING can be forgiven, but that truth means nothing in the world of mental health, violence, and possible death.
posted by tomswift at 3:21 AM on May 3, 2011 [2 favorites]

The other anachronism once acted in a physically threatening manner. He was incredibly drunk and had spent the entire day being very physical and aggressive with friends while playing games. That came very very close to breaking us and as a result his drinking is significantly curbed and his tolerance of testosterone filled violent environments is also curbed. If those things hadn't been curbed, had the aggression happened under any other circumstance other than intoxication, I don't know if the relationship would have survived. He has no right to use his superior physicality to intimidate me into acceding to his demands, that's not how our relationship works. So it hasnt happened again and we are several years and one baby down the track, so I'm pretty sure it won't happen again.

The stupidest part is that it was over the placement of the mat I was sleeping on. Of all the stupid and inane things, a fucking rug. That upset me more than anything, that he would jeapoardise our relationship, our trust, over a rug. I just couldn't understand it. But he says it was a combo of the alcohol and spending an entire day shoving and yelling and being aggressive. I'm able to give him the benefit of the doubt because it was the first time in several years and the only time. we both grew up in violent environments and that plays a part as well, in both his actions and my reactions.

So yeah, I forgave a certain amount of physical aggression within an intimate relationship. If he had hit me that wouldn't have been the case. If he had done it under any other circumstance, or if he'd done it more that once, it wouldn't have been the case.
posted by geek anachronism at 3:27 AM on May 3, 2011

For what it's worth, my parents swore when they got married that the only time they'd be physically violent with the other was to defend the children.

They've stuck to that too (for 45 years as of last Saturday).
posted by AMSBoethius at 4:36 AM on May 3, 2011

It's probably possible to come up with scenarios involving small amounts of force, large amounts of provocation, and compelling extenuating circumstances, and we could talk endlessly about gray areas and the tail end of the bell curve.

But that's not a useful way to think about the problem of physical aggression in relationships.

This is for two reasons. First, the scenarios in which the violence may be excusable are vanishingly rare. You know how doctors, when diagnosing, say "when you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras"? When you experience physical aggression in a relationship, think abuse. Speculating about the one-in-a-million chance that this is that excusable incident is as useless as buying a lottery ticket. It's not that no one ever wins, it's that you're overwhelmingly unlikely to win and need to save up your money so that you can afford to get away from your abusive partner.

The second and even more important reason is this. Abusers have had their personality all their lives. They've asserted control and dominance over people in various ways for decades, subtly and unsubtly, in all circumstances and social structures. By the time they get to you, they know how to pick a good victim. Someone with low self esteem, perhaps. Maybe someone who doesn't have a good support system in the area, someone who can be isolated and made to feel unsure of themselves. Someone who lacks a good role model relationship from their childhood. Someone who is bad at enforcing boundaries. Someone forgiving, someone with more compassion for others than strength for the self. Someone who can be manipulated into taking responsibility for "provoking" the violence.

Because of this, if you experience intimate partner violence, you know two things: first, it's overwhelmingly likely that this is not that blue moon scenario where the violence is forgivable. Your partner is almost certainly an abuser who will escalate. Second, you are very likely to be the kind of person who has trouble seeing this kind of dynamic clearly and protecting yourself. You're very likely to be the last person who is in a good position to see the difference between forgivable and unacceptable behavior. And once the word "provocation" enters the picture, forget about it, you're done. Now you know for sure that you're not seeing things clearly. Because I very much doubt that by provocation you mean "I attacked him with my fists and landed some serious punches of my own." I don't think you mean "I shoved his mother while calling her a whore. At his brother's funeral." I think you mean "I said something he didn't like. I did something he didn't like. I expressed emotions he didn't like, such as anger or sadness. He reacted to my words." And that doesn't count.

Get out.
posted by prefpara at 5:00 AM on May 3, 2011 [11 favorites]

Violence and aggression are two different things. Grandpa can be suffering the ravages of dementia and think I'm a Nazi and try and hit me. Someone can be having a seizure and in the process accidentally dislocate a caregiver's shoulder. That is violence, and forgivable given the circumstances.

Aggression, however, should never be tolerable. "Aggression refers to behavior between members of the same species that is intended to cause pain or harm." Note intent.
posted by gjc at 5:14 AM on May 3, 2011

I absolutely believe that physical force is forgivable. I also believe that it is, in 99.999% of cases, grounds for ending the relationship immediately and never looking back.

No one should stay in a relationship with someone who hits them or throws things at them or even threatens to do those things. I don't care if the aggressor was provoked (which I read as victim-blaming) or if the violence wasn't especially forceful (assault is wrong, regardless of whether you shove someone or beat them to a bloody pulp). If someone touches you violently, you should leave them immediately. Do it for your own safety and peace of mind, as well as to draw a line for both of you about what is unacceptable behavior.

That said, I don't believe it's fruitful to hold grudges or continue to harbor anger against people. So once you've left the relationship, I think it's important to work on forgiveness. Recognizing that people who use violence are often acting out bad patterns they've been taught their whole lives, I try not to hate them for what they do. But forgiving doesn't mean letting people back into your life. It just means not continuing to be angry at them as you start your new life without them.

(I've been answering this as though you are the victim, but if that's not right, if you are the aggressor, your behavior is unacceptable, and your partner should absolutely leave you. People who lash out in anger or use physical force against others should not be in intimate relationships until they learn not to do that anymore. Get some therapy. Once you've stopped hitting people, you can work on forgiving yourself, but the relationship you're in now needs to end, and you shouldn't start another one until you are sure you will not respond to anger with violence.)
posted by decathecting at 5:57 AM on May 3, 2011