Actually, I just don't like you.
April 26, 2011 12:29 AM Subscribe
Someone I don't like has asked what she did to make me not like her - should I tell her the truth or just gloss over it?
I met "Janine" at a very loud party last year and we drunkenly bonded over our shared interests. A couple of weeks later we went out for a meal with a small group of mutual friends and I realised that I find her personality repellent- she constantly name-drops, talks over other people, interrupts, tells interminable stories about how wonderful she is, and when she isn't blatantly interrupting she doesn't so much listen to other people as she pantingly waits for that one-second gap where she can jump in and take over.
She is part of my social group and is often to be found at the events and pubs and parties that I frequent. In large groups, I try to (subtly) manoeuvre things so I'm not sitting near her. In small groups, if she's in full force, which she usually is, I find myself just making my excuses and leaving because it is impossible to have a nice time. Apparently I wasn't as subtle as I thought because I have a text message sitting on my phone right now: "Are you made at me for something? What did I do wrong?"
So, my question: Do I tell her the truth or just gloss over things? She's not a terrible person and I don't want to hurt her if it's not going to do any good. The truth would be pretty unpleasant, and I know it would cause gossip and bad feelings in our social group, but at least I wouldn't have to tiptoe around and worry about making up lies about why I have to leave the party after one drink. Plus maybe if I said it the right way she might take it to heart and make an effort to change. If I gloss over it and act like there's nothing wrong and just say something like "there's been a lot on my mind lately", then I suppose things would go on just as they are.
If it matters, I am definitely not the only one who finds her hard to deal with and I'm sure they've had a similar problem to mine, but I don't want to bring it up in my social group because it would look gossipy and petty. Also, she gets a big pass from lots of people because she's a bit of a local celebrity, at least at the kinds of places and events I frequent, and things like free drinks seem to appear when she's around. I couldn't care less about that but stupidly it makes a difference for some.
So, what would you do, and how would you do it?
I met "Janine" at a very loud party last year and we drunkenly bonded over our shared interests. A couple of weeks later we went out for a meal with a small group of mutual friends and I realised that I find her personality repellent- she constantly name-drops, talks over other people, interrupts, tells interminable stories about how wonderful she is, and when she isn't blatantly interrupting she doesn't so much listen to other people as she pantingly waits for that one-second gap where she can jump in and take over.
She is part of my social group and is often to be found at the events and pubs and parties that I frequent. In large groups, I try to (subtly) manoeuvre things so I'm not sitting near her. In small groups, if she's in full force, which she usually is, I find myself just making my excuses and leaving because it is impossible to have a nice time. Apparently I wasn't as subtle as I thought because I have a text message sitting on my phone right now: "Are you made at me for something? What did I do wrong?"
So, my question: Do I tell her the truth or just gloss over things? She's not a terrible person and I don't want to hurt her if it's not going to do any good. The truth would be pretty unpleasant, and I know it would cause gossip and bad feelings in our social group, but at least I wouldn't have to tiptoe around and worry about making up lies about why I have to leave the party after one drink. Plus maybe if I said it the right way she might take it to heart and make an effort to change. If I gloss over it and act like there's nothing wrong and just say something like "there's been a lot on my mind lately", then I suppose things would go on just as they are.
If it matters, I am definitely not the only one who finds her hard to deal with and I'm sure they've had a similar problem to mine, but I don't want to bring it up in my social group because it would look gossipy and petty. Also, she gets a big pass from lots of people because she's a bit of a local celebrity, at least at the kinds of places and events I frequent, and things like free drinks seem to appear when she's around. I couldn't care less about that but stupidly it makes a difference for some.
So, what would you do, and how would you do it?
You could be vague for now, and say you had a bad day or something. But is there someone in your circle that's close to her, but is also aware of the others' perception of her? If her behavior upsets everyone else, and she's honestly unaware of it, maybe someone should gently bring it up with her in hopes that she becomes more aware of it. In the long run, everyone wins. Yeah, probably not so simple in practice, but it's a start.
posted by TheSecretDecoderRing at 12:44 AM on April 26, 2011
posted by TheSecretDecoderRing at 12:44 AM on April 26, 2011
Yeah, just tell her. Since you run in the same social circle just keep it casual when you bring it up, so it doesn't get even more awkward than it already is when you do see her again.
posted by Bron-Y-Aur at 12:44 AM on April 26, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by Bron-Y-Aur at 12:44 AM on April 26, 2011 [1 favorite]
Best answer: It sounds like you're only thinking of it in terms of "the truth" versus "glossing over"(as if that's the non-truth). She only asked if you were mad, right? And even if there's a consensus about her in your group, who's to say what "the truth" about her personality is? And what makes it your responsibility to report this... interpretation to her? No, you're not the official personality-judge, and not the official messenger. Gloss over. It's NOT dishonest.
posted by Rich Smorgasbord at 12:56 AM on April 26, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by Rich Smorgasbord at 12:56 AM on April 26, 2011 [3 favorites]
Best answer: For as vapid and self-centered as you make this girl sound, she may not even really think you are upset with her and is probably just finding some way to gain attention. If you tell her the real reason, I bet you $100 she's going to run to your friends and play victim. Where would that leave you? People like that rarely have anyone ballsy enough to stand up to them. Not saying you aren't ballsy, but most people just let the "Janines" of the world merrily go away. From my personal experience, especially since you run in the same circle, I would say nothing about the true reason and turn the tables on her and ask what makes her think you are upset. If her reasons come out as stupid as I am already assuming, just brush it off and say there's a lot going on.
posted by penguingrl at 12:58 AM on April 26, 2011 [13 favorites]
posted by penguingrl at 12:58 AM on April 26, 2011 [13 favorites]
Reminds me of this quote from The Great Gatsby:
"Look here, old sport," he broke out surprisingly. "What's your opinion of me anyhow?" A little overwhelmed, I began the generalized evasions which that question deserves...
posted by Rich Smorgasbord at 1:01 AM on April 26, 2011 [27 favorites]
"Look here, old sport," he broke out surprisingly. "What's your opinion of me anyhow?" A little overwhelmed, I began the generalized evasions which that question deserves...
posted by Rich Smorgasbord at 1:01 AM on April 26, 2011 [27 favorites]
Best answer: "Nothing major. I think our personalities just clash."
And (only) if pressured for details...
"Well, like... I get frustrated when people interrupt me, it makes me jumpy."; or
"I'm kind of shy so I like things to be a little low-key and relaxed, lots of little things that just make me unhappy."
See, she's not a bad person. She's just not the right type for you to hang with. It's your own intolerance for the perfectly-fine but incompatible way she is.
(You're not going to fix her anyway. Might as well leave her intact.)
posted by rokusan at 1:03 AM on April 26, 2011 [15 favorites]
And (only) if pressured for details...
"Well, like... I get frustrated when people interrupt me, it makes me jumpy."; or
"I'm kind of shy so I like things to be a little low-key and relaxed, lots of little things that just make me unhappy."
See, she's not a bad person. She's just not the right type for you to hang with. It's your own intolerance for the perfectly-fine but incompatible way she is.
(You're not going to fix her anyway. Might as well leave her intact.)
posted by rokusan at 1:03 AM on April 26, 2011 [15 favorites]
Best answer: Okay, so Janine did ask, therefore you have a real decision to make.
If you're upset with something Janine did, tell her.
If you're upset with something Janine is, gloss over it.
She could go spread tales to other people, but what could she possibly tell them that they don't already know?
posted by tel3path at 1:03 AM on April 26, 2011 [18 favorites]
If you're upset with something Janine did, tell her.
If you're upset with something Janine is, gloss over it.
She could go spread tales to other people, but what could she possibly tell them that they don't already know?
posted by tel3path at 1:03 AM on April 26, 2011 [18 favorites]
My premature postification problem prevented me from editing my comment above to read "So you present it as if she's not a bad person..."
(I'm not saying it's in any way true that this is the poster's failing. I'm encouraging grace.)
posted by rokusan at 1:06 AM on April 26, 2011
(I'm not saying it's in any way true that this is the poster's failing. I'm encouraging grace.)
posted by rokusan at 1:06 AM on April 26, 2011
Another aspect of this is, unless you actually plan on calling her to give an honest response, don't do it via text. It's too touchy a subject to deal with in such a limiting format, and the likelihood of miscommunication just makes the whole thing not worth it. It's hard enough being asked by someone in person if you're mad at them.
posted by TheSecretDecoderRing at 1:07 AM on April 26, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by TheSecretDecoderRing at 1:07 AM on April 26, 2011 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I've personally benefited from people telling me when I behaved in an annoying manner. Some people are the sort that penguingrl describes who would ruin your social circle. But others are like me and are just oblivious. It hurt to hear that I've been an asshole, but I was always able to improve and I think people around me now have it better as a result.
How you tell which kind she is I'm not sure. Perhaps the clue is in the degree of introspection she exhibits.
Here's a suggestion: counter with a question "what makes you think mad at you?" which might lead to a reply that would help you figure this out. For example if her reply is "Well, a mutual friend told me you don't wanna be around me" the whole situation becomes pretty different. If the counter-question doesn't help, well, other replies on this thread may be more helpful :>
posted by anateus at 1:08 AM on April 26, 2011 [8 favorites]
How you tell which kind she is I'm not sure. Perhaps the clue is in the degree of introspection she exhibits.
Here's a suggestion: counter with a question "what makes you think mad at you?" which might lead to a reply that would help you figure this out. For example if her reply is "Well, a mutual friend told me you don't wanna be around me" the whole situation becomes pretty different. If the counter-question doesn't help, well, other replies on this thread may be more helpful :>
posted by anateus at 1:08 AM on April 26, 2011 [8 favorites]
Well, sometimes I just want to be in a quieter, more introspective setting.
posted by amtho at 1:47 AM on April 26, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by amtho at 1:47 AM on April 26, 2011 [1 favorite]
If you want her in your life (and that may present as conflict/stress/drama) go for it. If you know you will never "like" her, take the time-honored route and say, Not at all! and discreetly and politely keep your distance. She will get the hint eventually. This is what white-lying is for. Someone above said it, and I paraphrase: Not your job, unless you want it to be.
posted by thinkpiece at 2:46 AM on April 26, 2011
posted by thinkpiece at 2:46 AM on April 26, 2011
Came here to say what tel3path said. I think that the most graceful, gentle way of doing this is to make it about her actions, not about herself. If there's something that she's doing that she could change, tell her - maybe even if you don't think it's very likely that she will! Far better to give her the chance; and if she doesn't choose to take advantage of it at least you then have something to fall back on when explaining why you don't want to hang out with her anymore.
posted by SymphonyNumberNine at 2:53 AM on April 26, 2011
posted by SymphonyNumberNine at 2:53 AM on April 26, 2011
Best answer: In my experience the only way to effect a change on people like here are gentle public call outs. If done really well then only she will likely realize that she embarrassed herself in some way.
Like for example, when she butts in or changes the subject, one might say: "that's interesting but actually I wanted to here more of what so-and-so was saying." In the right kind of atmosphere you can be more direct but it has to be positive and you have to essentially be sincere, or else you're just going to look like an undermining dick.
posted by fleacircus at 3:18 AM on April 26, 2011 [1 favorite]
Like for example, when she butts in or changes the subject, one might say: "that's interesting but actually I wanted to here more of what so-and-so was saying." In the right kind of atmosphere you can be more direct but it has to be positive and you have to essentially be sincere, or else you're just going to look like an undermining dick.
posted by fleacircus at 3:18 AM on April 26, 2011 [1 favorite]
Best answer: "It's all about me, me, me. Well, let's change the subject..., what do you guys think of me?"
I don't know if it's from Absolutely Fabulous but I can hear Patsy saying it. Maybe in the midst of a me, me, me conversation when she is doing her thing most obviously, and you play it right, you could quote it. Maybe it could draw attention to her self-absorption in a lighthearted way. It'd have to be the right moment though. Someone did it to me once when I was a new, know-it-all teacher back in the day - it did make me change my tone and behaviour, and I didn't get dramatic about receiving my gentle scolding.
But to the text, I'd ignore it as it is, as someone has already said above, all about her. If it comes up when you see her just say, "hmmm, not mad at you, just find it hard to get a word in edgewise, so I give up trying"
posted by honey-barbara at 4:26 AM on April 26, 2011
I don't know if it's from Absolutely Fabulous but I can hear Patsy saying it. Maybe in the midst of a me, me, me conversation when she is doing her thing most obviously, and you play it right, you could quote it. Maybe it could draw attention to her self-absorption in a lighthearted way. It'd have to be the right moment though. Someone did it to me once when I was a new, know-it-all teacher back in the day - it did make me change my tone and behaviour, and I didn't get dramatic about receiving my gentle scolding.
But to the text, I'd ignore it as it is, as someone has already said above, all about her. If it comes up when you see her just say, "hmmm, not mad at you, just find it hard to get a word in edgewise, so I give up trying"
posted by honey-barbara at 4:26 AM on April 26, 2011
> I don't know if it's from Absolutely Fabulous but I can hear Patsy saying it.
It's originally from "Beaches". Doesn't mean that it wasn't in AbFab too of course.
posted by AmbroseChapel at 5:13 AM on April 26, 2011
It's originally from "Beaches". Doesn't mean that it wasn't in AbFab too of course.
posted by AmbroseChapel at 5:13 AM on April 26, 2011
Actual answer: as others have said, "tell her the truth" and "gloss over things" are not the only choices. You can tell her just one of the many things you found annoying about her behaviour, and you can phrase it in lots of different ways.
posted by AmbroseChapel at 5:15 AM on April 26, 2011
posted by AmbroseChapel at 5:15 AM on April 26, 2011
I'd say you're not mad at her and she didn't do anything wrong. I think adding that she's zomg annoying would just be hurtful.
posted by J. Wilson at 5:38 AM on April 26, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by J. Wilson at 5:38 AM on April 26, 2011 [1 favorite]
It sounds like this woman has enough people around validating her and so she sees nothing wrong, except with the people who find her annoying. I know someone almost exactly the way you described. It's just the way she is. She never thinks other people disliking her is about anything she did or how she is, no matter what they say or how specific they are about what they think of her behavior - she just thinks they're jerks and will tell everyone else that.
In fact, I find it strange that your person even put you on the spot by asking you over text if you're mad at her. That's something I'd ask someone I consider a close friend (and in person, not over text!), not someone I met drunkenly at a party and then happens to be part of a social group I hang out with, but isn't actually close friends with me specifically. It sounds kind of aggressive to me and that's even more reason why I wouldn't respond honestly.
I don't see anything good coming out of telling this woman exactly how you feel. The thing is, with her being something of a local celebrity, the way she is has probably been a big help with getting her to where she is today, as she's good at making acquaintances.
posted by wondermouse at 6:07 AM on April 26, 2011
In fact, I find it strange that your person even put you on the spot by asking you over text if you're mad at her. That's something I'd ask someone I consider a close friend (and in person, not over text!), not someone I met drunkenly at a party and then happens to be part of a social group I hang out with, but isn't actually close friends with me specifically. It sounds kind of aggressive to me and that's even more reason why I wouldn't respond honestly.
I don't see anything good coming out of telling this woman exactly how you feel. The thing is, with her being something of a local celebrity, the way she is has probably been a big help with getting her to where she is today, as she's good at making acquaintances.
posted by wondermouse at 6:07 AM on April 26, 2011
I like amtho's approach, which hints in a direction that would make you more comfortable without blaming her for how she is now.
posted by salvia at 6:38 AM on April 26, 2011
posted by salvia at 6:38 AM on April 26, 2011
Best answer: I think we start with the text "are you mad at me?" and work backwards.
She's self-centered, but more from seeking validation from everyone around her, it would seem, as she's concerned that you leave whenever she's around, especially after a soul-touching bonding night of drinking when you first met.
She may even like you a little.
I like the approach of "Why do you think I'm mad at you?" and she'll say she feels like you are always blowing her off, don't talk to her anymore like that one night, and always leave when she's around.
So, then you're stuck and need to explain, in some way, your actions.. if you care to, which by asking the question it seems you do. Otherwise you have option 2.
Option 1
In which case, I'd take another of the suggestions and pick one thing.. something that isn't overly critical, but someone should understand could be annoying.
Something like she has a very extroverted personality and that sometimes dominates the conversation, and being more of an introvert sometimes you're just looking for some more one on one conversations. It's not *you*, it's *me*.
Option 2
"Really? Weird. I dunno.. I usually try to get around to see everyone when we all get together.. just weird coincidence. Can't remember any of those times specifically - though that one time, I wanted to talk to Joe about this blah blah blah (something she's totally not interested in)."
posted by rich at 6:52 AM on April 26, 2011 [2 favorites]
She's self-centered, but more from seeking validation from everyone around her, it would seem, as she's concerned that you leave whenever she's around, especially after a soul-touching bonding night of drinking when you first met.
She may even like you a little.
I like the approach of "Why do you think I'm mad at you?" and she'll say she feels like you are always blowing her off, don't talk to her anymore like that one night, and always leave when she's around.
So, then you're stuck and need to explain, in some way, your actions.. if you care to, which by asking the question it seems you do. Otherwise you have option 2.
Option 1
In which case, I'd take another of the suggestions and pick one thing.. something that isn't overly critical, but someone should understand could be annoying.
Something like she has a very extroverted personality and that sometimes dominates the conversation, and being more of an introvert sometimes you're just looking for some more one on one conversations. It's not *you*, it's *me*.
Option 2
"Really? Weird. I dunno.. I usually try to get around to see everyone when we all get together.. just weird coincidence. Can't remember any of those times specifically - though that one time, I wanted to talk to Joe about this blah blah blah (something she's totally not interested in)."
posted by rich at 6:52 AM on April 26, 2011 [2 favorites]
You're not mad at her, you just don't like her personality. So the honest answer is that you are not mad at her and she didn't do anything wrong.
posted by jayder at 7:10 AM on April 26, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by jayder at 7:10 AM on April 26, 2011 [3 favorites]
I've had this happen to me a number of times and so far the truth thing has not ever been a good idea.
What has worked is this:
"I'm sorry, what gave you the idea that I was mad at you?"
If that isn't enough and she still goes on about how she thinks you don't like her, then follow with, "Man, I hate that I made you feel that way. Sometimes I come off as distant or something when I'm tired, I'll try harder."
Then kill her with kindness.
posted by teleri025 at 7:25 AM on April 26, 2011 [3 favorites]
What has worked is this:
"I'm sorry, what gave you the idea that I was mad at you?"
If that isn't enough and she still goes on about how she thinks you don't like her, then follow with, "Man, I hate that I made you feel that way. Sometimes I come off as distant or something when I'm tired, I'll try harder."
Then kill her with kindness.
posted by teleri025 at 7:25 AM on April 26, 2011 [3 favorites]
Honestly, I can't imagine having one person ruin multiple social events for me.
If you're leaving parties because of her acting the way she acts, that's more on you than it is on her. There are two people in my social group that I do not really care for. But we have all the same friends, so when I am at a party with them, I say hi and talk to them for a few minutes, and then I spend no more time with them.
I refuse to allow them being there behaving however it is they behave to ruin an event for me. And that part of this question is on you. You may not care for her that much, and that's fine --- but you're the one dictating that her being somewhere means you shouldn't be.
As for how to speak with her --- gloss over the truth, as has been suggested here. "Oh, I'm not mad. I've been busy." But if you keep leaving every event you attend that she is also attending, then I understand where she may feel like she did something to upset you.
posted by zizzle at 7:38 AM on April 26, 2011 [8 favorites]
If you're leaving parties because of her acting the way she acts, that's more on you than it is on her. There are two people in my social group that I do not really care for. But we have all the same friends, so when I am at a party with them, I say hi and talk to them for a few minutes, and then I spend no more time with them.
I refuse to allow them being there behaving however it is they behave to ruin an event for me. And that part of this question is on you. You may not care for her that much, and that's fine --- but you're the one dictating that her being somewhere means you shouldn't be.
As for how to speak with her --- gloss over the truth, as has been suggested here. "Oh, I'm not mad. I've been busy." But if you keep leaving every event you attend that she is also attending, then I understand where she may feel like she did something to upset you.
posted by zizzle at 7:38 AM on April 26, 2011 [8 favorites]
Best answer: To offer another perspective, just as much as she may have her own little annoying social tics (loudness, interrupting, etc), you do too -- I mean, being so obvious that you can't stand her presence is not exactly the height of sauveness.
If this woman is an indelible part of your social circle, then you might want to take a more positive attitude and figure out what there is to like about her. And I'm guessing that there is a lot to like about her -- you're pretty down on her here, but the fact that she's a "local celebrity," gets free drinks wherever she goes, and that you did in fact "bond" with her when you first met, all suggest that she might be a really fun person in the right circumstances. High-energy, highly connected extroverts can certainly be annoying, but they can also be the life of the party in a good way. You don't have to be her best friend, but you'll be better off if you stop letting her get to you so much.
As for how to deal with her text calling you out ... I would just deny it, personally.
posted by yarly at 7:46 AM on April 26, 2011 [8 favorites]
If this woman is an indelible part of your social circle, then you might want to take a more positive attitude and figure out what there is to like about her. And I'm guessing that there is a lot to like about her -- you're pretty down on her here, but the fact that she's a "local celebrity," gets free drinks wherever she goes, and that you did in fact "bond" with her when you first met, all suggest that she might be a really fun person in the right circumstances. High-energy, highly connected extroverts can certainly be annoying, but they can also be the life of the party in a good way. You don't have to be her best friend, but you'll be better off if you stop letting her get to you so much.
As for how to deal with her text calling you out ... I would just deny it, personally.
posted by yarly at 7:46 AM on April 26, 2011 [8 favorites]
Best answer: I have a sister that sounds a lot like Janine. A few years ago we were videotaping a family get-together. After, we all sat down to watch the video. My sister was appalled at her attention-seeking behavior. However, there was no noticeable change in her after that. I don't know if she ever made an attempt to dial it back. If she did, it was literally undetectable.
However, I do believe that watching that video did stun her and probably made her feel badly about herself at least for a bit. I also think that her personality is something that is not easily "fixed" if it's fixable at all. It's who she is, how do you fix that?
So, in my mind, telling the truth would merely wound her without giving her any way to rectify the issue - it's her personality, something that is very very difficult to change. I think by telling the truth would only make her feel badly about herself and may even exacerbate the problem (perhaps her behavior and personality stem from insecurity - as I think my sister's does).
Like others have mentioned, she asked if you were mad at her. Are you? Or are you just not a good fit? I am not mad at my sister, however, she is very difficult for me to be around. I love her, but some personality quirks just make it hard for me.
I like the comment up-thread that mentioned "calling her out" on some of her behavior - in a nice way. If she interrupts, call her on it. You're not attacking her personality, but are letting her know that that behavior is not acceptable.
posted by Sassyfras at 7:56 AM on April 26, 2011
However, I do believe that watching that video did stun her and probably made her feel badly about herself at least for a bit. I also think that her personality is something that is not easily "fixed" if it's fixable at all. It's who she is, how do you fix that?
So, in my mind, telling the truth would merely wound her without giving her any way to rectify the issue - it's her personality, something that is very very difficult to change. I think by telling the truth would only make her feel badly about herself and may even exacerbate the problem (perhaps her behavior and personality stem from insecurity - as I think my sister's does).
Like others have mentioned, she asked if you were mad at her. Are you? Or are you just not a good fit? I am not mad at my sister, however, she is very difficult for me to be around. I love her, but some personality quirks just make it hard for me.
I like the comment up-thread that mentioned "calling her out" on some of her behavior - in a nice way. If she interrupts, call her on it. You're not attacking her personality, but are letting her know that that behavior is not acceptable.
posted by Sassyfras at 7:56 AM on April 26, 2011
I would be honest, and let them know how you feel.
I can be an asshole from time to time (just was this last Friday and now have a friend who wont talk to me, to his fairness for good reason to which I'd love to fix) and while some people would not appreciate it, I have. Particularly since these are people who know me and I care about their opinions as well as value their friendship (she may be one of those people, even if it is returned). This could be something that draws awareness to something she is oblivious to, which she may appreciate.
posted by handbanana at 7:58 AM on April 26, 2011
I can be an asshole from time to time (just was this last Friday and now have a friend who wont talk to me, to his fairness for good reason to which I'd love to fix) and while some people would not appreciate it, I have. Particularly since these are people who know me and I care about their opinions as well as value their friendship (she may be one of those people, even if it is returned). This could be something that draws awareness to something she is oblivious to, which she may appreciate.
posted by handbanana at 7:58 AM on April 26, 2011
Best answer: Yeah, you are very hard on her. You basically keep giving her the cut indirect, and cutting is so harsh that it's supposed to be reserved for the guy who shagged your girlfriend or used your Yorkshire Terrier for football practice. Not for people you just don't like.
You don't have to start liking her, but maybe a look in the mirror would do you some good here, you know?
posted by tel3path at 9:43 AM on April 26, 2011 [1 favorite]
You don't have to start liking her, but maybe a look in the mirror would do you some good here, you know?
posted by tel3path at 9:43 AM on April 26, 2011 [1 favorite]
Best answer: It's a trap. Tread carefully. Do not let her pressure you into admitting that you find her annoying unless you are prepared to have what will likely turn into a nasty fight that will probably relate in serious social awkwardness. Brush this whole thing off with a mere I'm so sorry I guess I've just been distracted it has nothing at all to do with you. You are not close enough to give her tough love, and it is really not worth the drama no matter how much you might want to tell her.
posted by ch1x0r at 9:47 AM on April 26, 2011 [7 favorites]
posted by ch1x0r at 9:47 AM on April 26, 2011 [7 favorites]
Use these principles to modify the behaviors that bug you; otherwise, keep the drama to a minimum.
posted by theora55 at 12:13 PM on April 26, 2011
posted by theora55 at 12:13 PM on April 26, 2011
Best answer: Maybe it's possible to use her own technique against her a bit, and put the ball in her court? ''Actually, I was worried maybe you didn't like me because it's happened a lot that I try to say something and you cut in, and it feels like you don't care what I have to say." Possibly followed by "I'm glad if it's not the case, because it felt kind of bad to have tension in our social group". Possibly followed by you really trying not to BE the tension in your social group, by using your own social skills to handle her gently or to cut out without her noticing.
posted by Salamandrous at 1:11 PM on April 26, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by Salamandrous at 1:11 PM on April 26, 2011 [2 favorites]
It may be a trap, but what will falling out with her actually cost you? It's not like you work with her or she has power over your medical care or something. Just, some people won't like you.
The alternative is that you assume that her question is driven by the worst possible motives and character (which it may be, but), don't give her the feedback she needs to find out why she's so annoying, and she goes on being annoying, and popular yet hated by crowds of people who want to use her. Maybe she wouldn't take in the information or would use it against you, but she couldn't say she'd never been told.
posted by tel3path at 2:27 PM on April 26, 2011 [1 favorite]
The alternative is that you assume that her question is driven by the worst possible motives and character (which it may be, but), don't give her the feedback she needs to find out why she's so annoying, and she goes on being annoying, and popular yet hated by crowds of people who want to use her. Maybe she wouldn't take in the information or would use it against you, but she couldn't say she'd never been told.
posted by tel3path at 2:27 PM on April 26, 2011 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I have never had a problem being honest with others, and often get them to realign their behavior, at least in my presence. This includes terrible bosses, unruly equals, and all other manner of crazies. I think people are notoriously bad at this skill. Its one worth learning, and I suggest this book if you're interested.
Ask the leading, "Why do you think that?" and assuming you've decided this conversation is worth having after hearing the answer, a couple of pointers:
1) Know yourself. You've listed a lot of things, but mostly, I am guessing you value respecting others, and she basically doesn't appear to do that to your standards so you're getting stepped all over. Be clear on what bothers you so you can really talk about it. Its not random. She's trouncing your values, whatever they are, and that annoys you, and if it goes on long enough will really anger you because then it will be her fault you can't hang out with your friends because she's always there (or whatever crazy story you'll make up later). You'll blame her for your own choices because you didn't want to figure out what was bothering you and learn how to fix it.
2) Get real. She's not a bad person. She's not being intentionally, gleefully, disrespectful and hurtful. She sounds anxious and is looking for social validation. So when you roll your eyes when she goes on about something and she notices, then she gets more anxious and craves more validation to undo the panic you just caused her. Get a handle on your feelings or else you will say or do some other stupid thing and you'll get nowhere and inflame the situation.
3) Know what you want. You don't want her to jump off a cliff, you want her to value and respect others. That looks like not interrupting, et cetera. If she's human, she'll want to be respectful, but she probably doesn't recognize that she isn't because she is SO EAGER to share herself with everyone due to her extraversion. Focus on the best possible outcome for you, her, and for everyone.
4) Be honest. Then you give her an opportunity to make change, otherwise you give her a license to keep at it. Be tactful, not brutal. Your feelings may not be pretty, but you need to express them in a way that is constructive.
5) Offer help. Offer her your support and INSIGHT. You can avoid those, but then she is without an ally, and that's way harder for her, and it leaves you without further opportunity to try and help change it. In contrast, if you've had a talk, and she wants to do something, she can look at you panicked and you can reassure her, or you can give her a cue and she can evaluate her actions in real time. If you really want it to change, offer to help change it. If she's really bothering others, you're providing a good service for everyone. If you don't have the conversation, try the social call-out the next time you're a victim of her bad behavior, preferably with your allies present. Mirroring her behavior might work, but you will probably look like a total jerk.
6) Talk about YOU. If you accuse her she'll get on the defensive and you've immediately lost. As cheesy as it sounds, feelings are the threads that make up our social fabric so use them to your advantage. When you talk about how their actions inspire your sad feelings, that gives a lot of motivation for someone to change their behavior. You give them empathy and responsibility when you share those things, both of which provide lots of motivation.
"Well, I feel like you don't really value being around me."
"What? Why? That's C-R-A-Z-Y!!!"
"Well, I feel that way because I have a difficult time sharing around you."
7) When you talk about her, stick to undeniable, behavior-based, facts. You can only guess her feelings, so if you guess wrong, you'll head off on some tangent and get lost, but you can point out facts, and talk about YOUR INTERPRETATION of those actions. She will probably disclose her feelings as the conversation goes on, then you can talk about them if you feel comfortable.
"What? Why? That's C-R-A-Z-Y!!!"
"Well, you interrupted when... and then I felt sad because I never got to share..." (Insert specific instance)
She might still totally screw it up, but you'll have made your best possible effort.
Aside -
I think the best "bad" conversation like this I had once was basically:
"So, I feel like you waste my time when you want me to help you plan things but you never follow through and do them. How can we fix that?"
"What? That's simply not true. Its a projection. A projection is when you put your own thoughts and feelings on the outside world and assume they are the facts."
"Indeed they are, but how can we fix my issue of me not wanting to feel like my time is being wasted by these mental exercises you bring to me?"
"We can't. I will stop asking you for help about these types of things."
"Excellent. Thanks!"
posted by troubadour at 3:22 PM on April 26, 2011 [2 favorites]
Ask the leading, "Why do you think that?" and assuming you've decided this conversation is worth having after hearing the answer, a couple of pointers:
1) Know yourself. You've listed a lot of things, but mostly, I am guessing you value respecting others, and she basically doesn't appear to do that to your standards so you're getting stepped all over. Be clear on what bothers you so you can really talk about it. Its not random. She's trouncing your values, whatever they are, and that annoys you, and if it goes on long enough will really anger you because then it will be her fault you can't hang out with your friends because she's always there (or whatever crazy story you'll make up later). You'll blame her for your own choices because you didn't want to figure out what was bothering you and learn how to fix it.
2) Get real. She's not a bad person. She's not being intentionally, gleefully, disrespectful and hurtful. She sounds anxious and is looking for social validation. So when you roll your eyes when she goes on about something and she notices, then she gets more anxious and craves more validation to undo the panic you just caused her. Get a handle on your feelings or else you will say or do some other stupid thing and you'll get nowhere and inflame the situation.
3) Know what you want. You don't want her to jump off a cliff, you want her to value and respect others. That looks like not interrupting, et cetera. If she's human, she'll want to be respectful, but she probably doesn't recognize that she isn't because she is SO EAGER to share herself with everyone due to her extraversion. Focus on the best possible outcome for you, her, and for everyone.
4) Be honest. Then you give her an opportunity to make change, otherwise you give her a license to keep at it. Be tactful, not brutal. Your feelings may not be pretty, but you need to express them in a way that is constructive.
5) Offer help. Offer her your support and INSIGHT. You can avoid those, but then she is without an ally, and that's way harder for her, and it leaves you without further opportunity to try and help change it. In contrast, if you've had a talk, and she wants to do something, she can look at you panicked and you can reassure her, or you can give her a cue and she can evaluate her actions in real time. If you really want it to change, offer to help change it. If she's really bothering others, you're providing a good service for everyone. If you don't have the conversation, try the social call-out the next time you're a victim of her bad behavior, preferably with your allies present. Mirroring her behavior might work, but you will probably look like a total jerk.
6) Talk about YOU. If you accuse her she'll get on the defensive and you've immediately lost. As cheesy as it sounds, feelings are the threads that make up our social fabric so use them to your advantage. When you talk about how their actions inspire your sad feelings, that gives a lot of motivation for someone to change their behavior. You give them empathy and responsibility when you share those things, both of which provide lots of motivation.
"Well, I feel like you don't really value being around me."
"What? Why? That's C-R-A-Z-Y!!!"
"Well, I feel that way because I have a difficult time sharing around you."
7) When you talk about her, stick to undeniable, behavior-based, facts. You can only guess her feelings, so if you guess wrong, you'll head off on some tangent and get lost, but you can point out facts, and talk about YOUR INTERPRETATION of those actions. She will probably disclose her feelings as the conversation goes on, then you can talk about them if you feel comfortable.
"What? Why? That's C-R-A-Z-Y!!!"
"Well, you interrupted when... and then I felt sad because I never got to share..." (Insert specific instance)
She might still totally screw it up, but you'll have made your best possible effort.
Aside -
I think the best "bad" conversation like this I had once was basically:
"So, I feel like you waste my time when you want me to help you plan things but you never follow through and do them. How can we fix that?"
"What? That's simply not true. Its a projection. A projection is when you put your own thoughts and feelings on the outside world and assume they are the facts."
"Indeed they are, but how can we fix my issue of me not wanting to feel like my time is being wasted by these mental exercises you bring to me?"
"We can't. I will stop asking you for help about these types of things."
"Excellent. Thanks!"
posted by troubadour at 3:22 PM on April 26, 2011 [2 favorites]
Best answer: She's self-centered, but more from seeking validation from everyone around her, it would seem, as she's concerned that you leave whenever she's around, especially after a soul-touching bonding night of drinking when you first met.
To touch on this point- this may be filling in some blanks on my part, but as it relates to the person I know who fits this description, the thing that gets me is that she will act like she has all sorts of things in common with everyone she meets, so she gets them on her side. When I first met her, she seemed really nice, and we had girl time together and it seemed like she was confiding in me and we could talk about anything, until I saw that she treated everyone else in the exact same manner and I was just another random face for her to talk at. Moreover, when she wasn't talking to me specifically and just more generally going on about stuff and her opinions about other people and the world at large, I found we really didn't have much in common at all, and a lot of the things she says are offensive to me.
At first I thought maybe I was the jerk, because she was so friendly to everybody and everyone seemed to go along with it, but then I found out that everyone else who deals with her where I know her feels the exact same way. So when I read that cilantro and this other woman met and bonded over drinks and went on about everything they have in common, I imagined the woman trying to befriend everyone she runs into this way regardless of whether or not she's really interested in them, until she gets them in her corner and then is able to convince them how awesome she is by constantly one-upping them and dominating every conversation. It works best when the woman seems to surround herself with people she sees as inferior to her in one way or another, so they all think she is amazing.
cilantro, if this doesn't fit the description of the woman in question, and you think maybe she actually is interested in you as a friend and individual, feel free to ignore my advice. But I am tempted to interpret her question less as "What is my problem?" and more as "What is YOUR problem with ME?"
posted by wondermouse at 3:29 PM on April 26, 2011 [1 favorite]
To touch on this point- this may be filling in some blanks on my part, but as it relates to the person I know who fits this description, the thing that gets me is that she will act like she has all sorts of things in common with everyone she meets, so she gets them on her side. When I first met her, she seemed really nice, and we had girl time together and it seemed like she was confiding in me and we could talk about anything, until I saw that she treated everyone else in the exact same manner and I was just another random face for her to talk at. Moreover, when she wasn't talking to me specifically and just more generally going on about stuff and her opinions about other people and the world at large, I found we really didn't have much in common at all, and a lot of the things she says are offensive to me.
At first I thought maybe I was the jerk, because she was so friendly to everybody and everyone seemed to go along with it, but then I found out that everyone else who deals with her where I know her feels the exact same way. So when I read that cilantro and this other woman met and bonded over drinks and went on about everything they have in common, I imagined the woman trying to befriend everyone she runs into this way regardless of whether or not she's really interested in them, until she gets them in her corner and then is able to convince them how awesome she is by constantly one-upping them and dominating every conversation. It works best when the woman seems to surround herself with people she sees as inferior to her in one way or another, so they all think she is amazing.
cilantro, if this doesn't fit the description of the woman in question, and you think maybe she actually is interested in you as a friend and individual, feel free to ignore my advice. But I am tempted to interpret her question less as "What is my problem?" and more as "What is YOUR problem with ME?"
posted by wondermouse at 3:29 PM on April 26, 2011 [1 favorite]
(Obviously you can feel free to ignore my advice either way, but you know what I mean!)
posted by wondermouse at 3:36 PM on April 26, 2011
posted by wondermouse at 3:36 PM on April 26, 2011
Response by poster: So, for those still watching, I sent Janine an email (I wanted to talk in person but things are crazy around here for everyone and it might be weeks and weeks before I run into her again. I should have called but I have a bit of telephone anxiety):
"I'm not mad at you, exactly. It's just that you often talk over me and interrupt me, and it always feels like you never listen to what I say, instead it seems like you're just waiting impatiently for me to finish so it can be your turn to talk. I find it really frustrating and I'm afraid I might get angry and say something I'll regret, so I find it easier to talk to other people instead. If there are just 5-6 of us out at the pub and you're interrupting me and talking over me, sometimes I'll just go home rather than sit there and stew, and I feel resentful because I really did want to stay and have a nice conversation with everyone.
I have noticed that you interrupt and talk over other people, as well, and while that also frustrates me, I haven't spoken to anyone else about this, and I don't know how they feel about it. I can guess, but I can't speak for them. I can only speak for myself and how your actions make me feel.
I really struggled over whether to answer you honestly and I finally decided that this was the right thing to do. I'm not trying to be your mom or your therapist, I'm just trying to tell you how I feel as honestly and as calmly as possible. It's up to you what you do with what I've said. Ignore it, take it to heart, write me back and refute everything I've said point by point, whatever. I do want you to know that I find you funny and interesting, and your stories are usually pretty great - I would just enjoy them more if you let me have a word in edgewise sometimes and listened to my stories in return, you know?
If you want to grab coffee and have a chat about this, or anything else, I'm up for it and I would really like to try to start again with our friendship. In the interest of full disclosure, if you continue interrupting me and talking over me, I will continue to avoid conversations that you're a part of. I don't like feeling ignored and belittled and I won't put myself in those kinds of situations. But if you're willing to meet me at least half-way I'll be happy to do my part."
So, there you go. I tried to be as honest and as diplomatic as I could without seeming like a doormat and without sounding like I'm calling her a shitty person. Because she's not - she's very generous with her time and money when it comes to volunteer projects that support the arts in our community and I've heard of her quietly giving people money to help with rent or whatever and she doesn't talk herself up about those things. I hope this goes well, I'll update again if anyone's interested.
posted by cilantro at 1:20 AM on April 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
"I'm not mad at you, exactly. It's just that you often talk over me and interrupt me, and it always feels like you never listen to what I say, instead it seems like you're just waiting impatiently for me to finish so it can be your turn to talk. I find it really frustrating and I'm afraid I might get angry and say something I'll regret, so I find it easier to talk to other people instead. If there are just 5-6 of us out at the pub and you're interrupting me and talking over me, sometimes I'll just go home rather than sit there and stew, and I feel resentful because I really did want to stay and have a nice conversation with everyone.
I have noticed that you interrupt and talk over other people, as well, and while that also frustrates me, I haven't spoken to anyone else about this, and I don't know how they feel about it. I can guess, but I can't speak for them. I can only speak for myself and how your actions make me feel.
I really struggled over whether to answer you honestly and I finally decided that this was the right thing to do. I'm not trying to be your mom or your therapist, I'm just trying to tell you how I feel as honestly and as calmly as possible. It's up to you what you do with what I've said. Ignore it, take it to heart, write me back and refute everything I've said point by point, whatever. I do want you to know that I find you funny and interesting, and your stories are usually pretty great - I would just enjoy them more if you let me have a word in edgewise sometimes and listened to my stories in return, you know?
If you want to grab coffee and have a chat about this, or anything else, I'm up for it and I would really like to try to start again with our friendship. In the interest of full disclosure, if you continue interrupting me and talking over me, I will continue to avoid conversations that you're a part of. I don't like feeling ignored and belittled and I won't put myself in those kinds of situations. But if you're willing to meet me at least half-way I'll be happy to do my part."
So, there you go. I tried to be as honest and as diplomatic as I could without seeming like a doormat and without sounding like I'm calling her a shitty person. Because she's not - she's very generous with her time and money when it comes to volunteer projects that support the arts in our community and I've heard of her quietly giving people money to help with rent or whatever and she doesn't talk herself up about those things. I hope this goes well, I'll update again if anyone's interested.
posted by cilantro at 1:20 AM on April 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
I'm interested in finding out how it turns out. Congrats on the email too, I thought it was well-worded.
posted by althanis at 10:32 AM on April 27, 2011
posted by althanis at 10:32 AM on April 27, 2011
Good for you. I hope your good deed is taken in the spirit in which it was intended, but if not, you did your best.
For giving criticism (now and in the future), you'll probably find this book immensely helpful. I recommend it to everyone.
posted by tel3path at 4:25 AM on April 28, 2011
For giving criticism (now and in the future), you'll probably find this book immensely helpful. I recommend it to everyone.
posted by tel3path at 4:25 AM on April 28, 2011
Well done Cilantro - that's a direct and fair email.
posted by honey-barbara at 12:46 AM on April 29, 2011
posted by honey-barbara at 12:46 AM on April 29, 2011
Yes, please update if she responds.
Your email was heartfelt and lovely.
posted by Sassyfras at 6:00 PM on May 1, 2011
Your email was heartfelt and lovely.
posted by Sassyfras at 6:00 PM on May 1, 2011
« Older mandarin-english dictionary with unicode | I want to sail around Australia. Help me! Newer »
This thread is closed to new comments.
I mean, she did ask, right?
posted by inturnaround at 12:38 AM on April 26, 2011