Help me flush my toilet replacement worries down the drain

February 11, 2011 12:16 PM

I'm considering replacing the toilet in my oldish house, and I'd like to be prepared for any trouble I might run into.

I understand that theoretically, at least, toilet replacement isn't difficult. I'd like to save the money and do it myself, but I'm concerned because my house is older and I've been surprised before at what I've found when I've replaced other fixtures. The situation is rarely as depicted in the installation instructions. We also have only one toilet in the house, so it can't be out of commission for too long.

That said, the current toilet seems relatively recent and standard, and the water connection has a flexible hose with a threaded joint attaching the standpipe to the toilet. This suggests to me that everything should be relatively standardize. Does this seem like a reasonable assumption to those of you with toilet replacement experience? Is there anything I can do prior to removing the toilet that could give me a hint of what I might find or help me prepare for likely situations that might differ from the norm?

Also, when calling local plumbers to get quotes for the job, I've been advised not to buy a toilet at Home Depot or Lowes, and that I should buy from a plumbing supply company. I know home supply stores do sometimes have their own product lines from manufacturers, but is there really any reason not to buy a toilet from these places?

posted by mollweide to Home & Garden (24 answers total)

It sounds to me like you're good to go. I would make sure to have a new set of bolts for attaching the toilet in case the old ones are corroded stuck and you need to cut them off. Don't start the job just as the hardware store is closing. You want to have access to new parts if anything goes wrong. I'd buy a new flexi-hose and some of that tape dope. Don't over tighten anything. Go slow.
posted by bonobothegreat at 12:23 PM on February 11, 2011 [1 favorite]

I think the main thing for fitting a new toilet is being sure the distance from the center of the hole in the floor (the bolts more or less) to the wall is about the same. I've bought replacements from Home Hardware and Home Depot for our toilets without problems. The main trouble you may run into is that the floor has rotted but that's another kettle of fish.
posted by bonobothegreat at 12:28 PM on February 11, 2011

Take many detailed photos of the existing connection and bring them with you to the hardware store/plumbing supply company. We did not do that, and it cost us a $75 restocking fee plus the $250 plumbers' fee for trying to install a toilet that absolutely would not fit.
posted by Sidhedevil at 12:28 PM on February 11, 2011

I also live in an old house (1920ish), and we replaced our toilet last year. We were also nervous about what we might find when we removed the toilet, especially after one contractor (who was in for another, related, reason to give us a quote) said to us that he thought there was a hole in the floor behind it.

However, we bought a new toilet (from Lowe's, for what it's worth) and installed it with very little trouble, and it's been fine ever since. If you have a regular, recently modern toilet in place now, I bet you'll be fine. If you're really worried, you can always go up under the house and look at the flooring around your toilet from below to see if it's weird or rotting or anything, particularly if the toilet has been leaking.

I think we used the instructions that came with the toilet in combination with the instructions at This Old House.
posted by hought20 at 12:29 PM on February 11, 2011

Problems...from personal experience. Rotted floor, missing joist(s), or joists cut through so much that they no longer offer structural support leading to a rocking toilet, rotted flange, seized flange bolts making it necessary to cut the old ones. No problem buying from Home Depot, just stick with a name brand. Plumbers, if you let them, will buy the fixture at the plumbing supply store, and mark it up 15% or more.

Other than that it is an easy job.
posted by Gungho at 12:31 PM on February 11, 2011

We replaced a toilet in our 35 year old home and it was pretty simple. The toughest part was cutting through and removing the rusted bolts that held it down. Other than that, not very difficult.

My strongest advice to you would be to sit on your potential new toilet before you buy it! I bought a dual flush/low-flow toilet online through Home Depot and am not altogether happy with it. It is a couple inches taller than the last one which makes a difference when, um, using it. Leverage and whatnot. Plus the lid is flimsier plastic so I can't even sit on the lid when putting nail polish on. And, err, "stuff" seems to stick to it's bowl easier. So, not really a happy camper.

Do yourself a solid (heh) and sit-test whatever you are thinking of buying. Buy the sturdy one with the trucker sized hole. If you can only find that through a plumbing supply company and it costs $40 more or so, do it. How often are you going to replace your toilet? It's a thing you use multiple times a day.
posted by jillithd at 12:34 PM on February 11, 2011

If you're not far from a hardware store, you're probably in fine shape. Otherwise, you should buy all your possible widget-replacements in advance, just in case you need them, and plan on returning them afterwards if you don't.
That means the valve and the connections around the water input, the bolts that hold hte toilet to the floor, and a couple of different sizes of wax rings.
From my one toilet-remove and reinstall experience in my old house, we were concerned about the floor thickness and how tall the wax seal had to be to correctly fill the space between the toilet and the drain. From my description of "I don't know what's under there but I think there's an extra layer of subfloor", the hardware store guy recommended one which turned out to be the exact same as what were were replacing. We then installed our new flooring, reseated the toilet, and discovered that the bolts had been carefully trimmed for the old floor, 1/8" thinner than the new floor. Fortunately one could hold them carefully to get it started threading into the nut, but htey were *almost* too short. I assume a new toilet comes with new bolts, so that won't be an issue you run into.
posted by aimedwander at 12:35 PM on February 11, 2011

Connection wise, it's hard to tell the difference between a 3/8" supply hose and a 1/2" hose, etc. Luckily, I believe you can buy the hoses in both and in-between. (eg 3/8ths to 1/2).

Be more concerned about whether the new toilet's footprint fits your floor area. (room to maneuver around the toilet, etc)

The wax ring job is nasty work to get out. Getting the new toilet settled on the new wax ring can be a PITA too. For an extra $4 or so, buy the gasket instead of the $0.99 wax ring. I'm sure there are youtube viedos on how to do it.

We had a plumber replace one toilet, we watched and then did the other 2 in about 3 hrs.

Worst case is the subflooring is damaged (common in bathrooms) so mounting the toilet leaves you leaky or not level, or you break part of the flange..

We got our parts from Lowes or Ace, but the toilet itself from Fergueson.
posted by k5.user at 12:36 PM on February 11, 2011

Best answer: Whatever you do, don't start doing this 2 hours before the hardware store closes (especially if it's the only toilet in the house). If you run into problems, you want plenty of time to figure out what to do and get the hardware you need. I speak from personal experience....
posted by bluefrog at 12:44 PM on February 11, 2011

The last time I needed a new toilet, the plumber was able to get the toilet cheaper than I could, so the cost of the installation plus the toilet ended up less than the cost of me going and buying the toilet myself, without even adding in the cost of the extras (new supply line, etc). That only works if the toilet is expensive and your plumber passes on great prices, so YMMV, but do make sure you are pricing apples to apples.

As everyone else has said, the real gotchas involve measurements, fitting sizes, and being prepared for uneven, sagging, and rotting floors. Also be ready if the shut off valve on the wall doesn't shut off all the way or starts leaking mid-job, or if you strip or break off a bolt during installation. None of them are big deals, but they turn a fast job into one involving repeated trips to the store and a lot of swearing.
posted by Forktine at 12:53 PM on February 11, 2011

Rotted floor, missing joist(s), or joists cut through so much that they no longer offer structural support leading to a rocking toilet, rotted flange, seized flange bolts making it necessary to cut the old ones.

Just completed a task like this. I got a toilet that has a low sit-level, (even through higher ones are more comfortable.) I traced the toilet bottom onto 3/4" plywood, cut that out, as well as the drain hole. Sealed it top and bottom with marine varnish. I sealed that wood gasket to the floor over the toilet footprint with silicone, then bolted it down with stainless steel screws. The toilet sits on that, raised 3/4, about the right final height, and has a solid waterproofed base.

The gooey seal I bought to go on the drain was the wrong size, so I reshaped it by hand. Don't forget the foam gasket between the tank and the bowl components, and teflon tape on the water connection threads.
posted by StickyCarpet at 1:05 PM on February 11, 2011

I only have one toilet, and when I pulled it up a few years ago to replace it, I discovered that the floor was rotted to hell underneath. I had to sister three joists and replace about 4 feet square of subfloor, which was pretty self-explanatory and not too hard, but took about 3 days.

I'm not too proud to tell you that my wife and I used a Home Depot Homer's Bucket (in stylish orange) lined with replaceable grocery bags as our temporary toilet until I was finished. Needless to say, we also got our new toilet at Home Depot and it works fine, though I neglected to measure the distance from teh wall to the hole, so now there's an inch gap between the tank and wall, down which magazines frequently fall.
posted by M.C. Lo-Carb! at 1:55 PM on February 11, 2011

We replaced a toilet in our 1920s house recently. After confirming that the existing toilet was a standard size (it was one of the Home Depot cheapo builder's brands), we upgraded and bought Toto Drake. Installation was pretty easy, and we aren't the handiest people out there. We just followed the instructions. We reused the existing bolts rather than putting in new ones because they were already cut to size.

My recommendation is to buy several wax rings just in case you screw up with the first one. You can't really reuse them if you do it wrong.

One note about the Toto, which flushes like a champ, is that the stupid slow-close lid sucks. Mainly it's got a cheap sloping plastic lid which you can't sit on (i.e. the aforementioned nail polish issue). But you can always buy a different seat!
posted by cabingirl at 2:17 PM on February 11, 2011

Best answer: My house is over a hundred years old, and last month I replaced the toilet as my first real plumbing project.

It was easy. It took about six hours, start to finish, but that includes getting a call halfway through that my daughter was sick and needed to be picked up from school, and also includes all of the subsequent "Mommy, can I have a...?"

It might make you feel better to do it during normal business hours and after having gotten quotes from plumbers--then push come to shove, if you're getting desperate, you can phone around and say "Hey, I started this but am in over my head. I've gotten the toilet removed and would like someone to take over." (This is how I convinced myself that I could do it, fwiw.)

Buy a cheapo putty knife (or use a crappy kitchen knife that you're willing to toss) to get up the old, gross wax ring. WARM the new wax ring before you put it in place--it's much easier set it when it's not half frozen. Since this is your first time, I'd suggest turning off the water supply to the house--fill up a bucket to rinse your hands in, then go into the basement, find the pipe, and turn the valve to shut it off.

Re: Distance between toilet and wall: What you want to measure is the distance from the wall to the middle of the bolts on the current toilet. That's your rough-in. Standard in modern homes is 12"--in older homes, you'll find up to 15". Mine was 14", and if your house is old, there's a decent shot that yours will be, too. You'll be told over and over again to make sure that the toilet matches the rough-in, but frankly, buying a 14" would have added hundreds of dollars to the cost of the toilet. The *only* difference between using a 12" and a 14" on a 12" rough in is that with the 12", you'll save some money and have a gap between the toilet and the wall.

Re: Standardization: Really, if the toilet looks fairly normal, you're probably okay with regards to standardization. My understanding is that past about midcentury, you're probably safe.

Finally, I bought my toilet (chair-height, elongated, low-flow, dual flush) at Home Depot, and I think that it's about the greatest hundred bucks I've ever spent. I do want to replace the flimsy seat cover, but other than that, I have nothing but praise for it.

You can do this! And then later, you can tell people about how you replaced your toilet, and they'll all be wildly impressed, and you'll feel super accomplished. Just go for it.
posted by MeghanC at 3:26 PM on February 11, 2011

Sigh. Meant to say that without interruptions, it probably would've been more like three hours, including cleanup time. (I did not use a cheapo putty knife, and spent quite a while with very hot water trying to get thirty-year-old wax off of my knife.)
posted by MeghanC at 3:28 PM on February 11, 2011

1920s house -- recent bathroom reno -- another 'found floor rotted' here.

Warning: I miss my old toilet. It was not attractive but it was not a low-flush model and...yeah. If you like using big wads of first-world-grade toilet paper, flush is critical, and modern toilets are not what you are used to if you have an old can.
posted by kmennie at 3:31 PM on February 11, 2011

Best answer: I know I've linked to it here on AskMe before, but never buy a toilet without first checking how it ranks on the MaP tests (see also). A great toilet can chow down 800 or 1000 grams of "stuff" per flush, while crappier toilets choke on only 200 grams; better toilets don't always cost more, either.
posted by Forktine at 4:05 PM on February 11, 2011 [2 favorites]

Our bathroom floor turned out to be solid, but not level, and the shims the previous owner used were the wrong shape for our new toilet. Definitely don't start this project right before the hardware stores close, if it's your only one.
posted by galadriel at 5:49 PM on February 11, 2011

Doing this job last year, I was pained to find that most dreadful of situations: a NONSTANDARD INSTALLATION. Don't really remember the details, but I think there was no flange, the toilet sat directly on a piece of ABS that protruded higher above the floor than it should have. Cue much wailing and gnashing of teeth, capped by some 'what the hell', an extra large wax ring, and no problems now for a year. Whew.
posted by carterk at 6:01 PM on February 11, 2011

When I replace a toilet I like to use wax rings over the foam gaskets because they are time proven and cheap. Buy two or three thin ones and then if you need more thickness you can stack them.

Also buy new brass flange bolts. Nicer to use than the old ones and won't rust for the next time you have the toilet up.

Finally before you start get a good size rag (a medium towel works well) that you don't mind ruining. Fold into thirds length wise and then roll it up into a tube shape. Use this to plug the hole in the floor immediately after removing the old toilet and don't remove it until just before placing the new toilet. This does two things 1) it stops sewer gases from entering your bathroom and 2) it stops wrenches from dropping into the hole. The former is especially important if by bad luck your new toilet, purchased to replace a leaking toilet, is defective and you can't get a new replacement until the next day (you know, hypothetically speaking, DAMHIKT)

bonobothegreat writes "I'd buy a new flexi-hose and some of that tape dope."

Most toilet hoses are compression, flare or gasketed flange in which case pipe dope or teflon tape should not be used. Only use those products on pipe thread.
posted by Mitheral at 6:15 PM on February 11, 2011 [1 favorite]

Best answer: I would under no circumstances replace a toilet without using a flange. That would be like flying upside down in an airplane without a seatbelt. Trouble would surely ensue. The likely consequence being the ABS fitting separating from the toilet, which would have each flush being deposited on the ceiling below (I’m guessing your wife might see the cleanup of same as your job. Of course the previous poster said he’s had no problems so far, “so far” being the operative phrase.

The problems you’re most likely to encounter are rusted “johnny bolts” (secure the toilet to the flange/floor) that need to be sawed off and a rotted sub floor. The bolts can be a pain as they can move around while you’re trying to cut them, so grab onto the top of them with a pair of vise grips to hold them steady and hack saw the off. One of those mini hack saws is easier to maneuver in that confined space. There very cheap and a good addition to your kit.

When you pull the toilet you’ll see the flange screwed to the floor with the old wax attached. Remove the old wax with a putty knife and inspect the floor. I don’t think you said if the floor is tiled, but the height of the flange should be same as the finished floor. Naturally this is often not the case. Sometime the floor will have been retiled and the old flange left in place leaving it low, or the flange could be sitting atop the finished floor leaving it high. With the flange low you can sometime use two wax Johnny rings together to make up the difference. If it’s high sometimes a slightly thinner ring with some strong back and forth wriggling when replacing the toilet will work. In this case you have to get the toilet to completely seat on the finished floor.

The most likely place for the floor to be rotted is right around the flange. In this case the screws holding the flange down won’t have any purchase and it will be loose and in need of replacement. If the rot is more extensive you’re going to have to remove as much as necessary to get to undamaged wood.

If your patch is within the footprint of the toilet, which it most likely will be, make your patch with exterior grade plywood and use stainless steel screws to replace the flange. If plywood patch is required and you can, it’s best to go back to a joist and sister (screw it to) a 2x to the floor joist. You’ll need to do this for when you cut back the rotted sub floor you’ll cut right along the edge of the floor joist so the joist and sub floor are even. The sistered 2x provides a ledge for your patch to rest on and be screwed to.

For the sistered piece, you a 2x3 or 2x4 and cut the longest piece you can fit in. The easiest way is to predrill through holes in the sistered pieced and attach with 3 inch screws. And when you drill the through holes, try and make them straight in both planes. If you’ve got a crooked hole the screw will pull the sister out of alignment.

Hopefully the sub floor will be intact and you’ll just swap one bowl for the other. But if the floor is rotted, don’t despair. You would have had to replace it at some point in the future, potentially a time you couldn’t prepare for. And the patch is really pretty easy to do.

Lastly the bottom of the toilet should be caulked where it meets the floor, but I would wait to do this until you are sure your installation is leak free. Good luck.
posted by PaulBGoode at 6:38 PM on February 11, 2011

Response by poster: Thanks everyone. I appreciate all the answers. Knowing it's most likely to go smoothly and having a idea of the problems to look out for helps immensely.
posted by mollweide at 7:45 PM on February 11, 2011

Best answer: I've done a handful of them, and always get scared by the part in the instructions that says something like "DO NOT TIGHTEN THE BOLTS TOO MUCH OR YOUR TOILET WILL SHATTER AND YOU WILL BE SCREWED, DUDE". So I don't tighten the bolts between the tank and the bowl enough, and it leaks and wiggles, and then I fret about it for a while and finally tighten it to where I would have without that dire warning, and everything is great. So, essentially, don't bring up your NASCAR style impact wrench, but you really do need to tighten the bolts.

but if your toilet shatters you didn't get this advice from me.
posted by dirtdirt at 6:33 AM on February 12, 2011

The Kohler and American Standard toilets sold at the big box stores are not supposed to flush as well as some of the other brands like Toto and Gerber. I replaced a contractor grade toilet with the bottom of the line model from Toto and it does not stop up, even with big bundles of toilet paper.

Check out Terry Love's Consumer toilet reviews for ranking of good toilets by model. You really can find anything on the internet these days!
posted by kenliu at 11:30 AM on February 12, 2011