Someday I will be a grownup.
September 22, 2010 1:48 PM Subscribe
My boyfriend is supernice and supersweet and this freaks me out. I am not supernice or supersweet and the disparity between us freaks me out. What's wrong with me?
Disgustingly snowflakey. Please help me be a rational, adult human being.
Quick backstory: In college I was in a three-year relationship--my first serious one--that was both physically and emotionally abusive. We broke up almost three years ago; we stayed emotionally involved for another year and a half, and I finally completely cut him out of my life last July.
I am in general an argumentative, grumpy little thing and I push people (specifically significant others). I push until they react, until they snap at me or yell back (or, in the case of the aforementioned ex, hurt me).
I try not to do this and it's taken a lot of wrangling to get my stupid crankiness under control, but sometimes I still do.
However, I've just started seeing a guy who is quite possibly the most patient, kind, and just plain nice and sweet man in the world, despite his own rather craptacular life experience. He knows about Ex and all of my various emotional and sexual hangups and neuroses. He knows about the past abuse. He knows that I am filled with trepidation about this whole relationship business because in the black and white world that occupies my brain, I yell at boys and then they hit me and relationships involve hurting so badly I want to die but that all somehow still equals love.
He is patient and kind and gentle and all I want is for him to push *back.* I want him to be mean to me when I'm mean to him (he insists, thus far, that I haven't been mean and when I have it was coming from a screwy place of trying to protect him [i.e. throwing him out of the house and yelling at him that I just can't handle this and he should get out while he still can]). I want him to yell back and get grumpy back at me.
But that's just not his personality. Despite all he's been through, he's still just plain nice.
Why can't I believe he is sincere? Why can't I believe that his judgment isn't clouded by how smitten he is with me (which is another thing that I'm having a hard time coming to grips with, because it's never really happened before) and once those initial fluffy feelings wear off he's going to wonder what he's gotten himself into?
I'm leaving out details, like how I spaz out and have meltdowns and am sometimes so overcome by grumpiness and anxiety that I'm kind of an awful person to be around. And like how he sticks around throughout this because he knows I eventually calm down and then I want hugs and he wants to be there to give me hugs.
I asked him specifically if he was sure he was up to this. And he said specifically yes. Yes, that he spent the first couple of weeks we were getting to know each other thinking over it a lot and deciding that his feelings for me were worth it, and he knew that he had to be sure about being with me and that he needed to be sincere.
Why can't I believe him?
I guess what I really want to know here is, can relationships work like this? Can one person be a pusher and an instigator and the other person take it in stride? And I don't mean to imply that I'm not working on being a more pleasant person, but he's just so goddamn *nice* that it makes me scared, or nervous, or hesitant, or something that is not any of those because they aren't the right words. It freaks me out. Do I just need to calm down and accept that there is this person who cares about me with no strings attached, or is my gut telling me that we're not compatible? Is that even a thing? Can people be argumentatively compatible?
Things that may be relevant: Therapy isn't a viable option right now because I am a broke grad student and I'm pretty sure I've used up my free sessions at the student counseling center (and I wouldn't want to occupy that time when other people with more serious problems could be using it). Two, I'm on an antidepressant/anti-anxiety medication that actually allows me to feel like a normal human most of the time but the emotional hooplah of this budding relationship business has me all out of whack.
Disgustingly snowflakey. Please help me be a rational, adult human being.
Quick backstory: In college I was in a three-year relationship--my first serious one--that was both physically and emotionally abusive. We broke up almost three years ago; we stayed emotionally involved for another year and a half, and I finally completely cut him out of my life last July.
I am in general an argumentative, grumpy little thing and I push people (specifically significant others). I push until they react, until they snap at me or yell back (or, in the case of the aforementioned ex, hurt me).
I try not to do this and it's taken a lot of wrangling to get my stupid crankiness under control, but sometimes I still do.
However, I've just started seeing a guy who is quite possibly the most patient, kind, and just plain nice and sweet man in the world, despite his own rather craptacular life experience. He knows about Ex and all of my various emotional and sexual hangups and neuroses. He knows about the past abuse. He knows that I am filled with trepidation about this whole relationship business because in the black and white world that occupies my brain, I yell at boys and then they hit me and relationships involve hurting so badly I want to die but that all somehow still equals love.
He is patient and kind and gentle and all I want is for him to push *back.* I want him to be mean to me when I'm mean to him (he insists, thus far, that I haven't been mean and when I have it was coming from a screwy place of trying to protect him [i.e. throwing him out of the house and yelling at him that I just can't handle this and he should get out while he still can]). I want him to yell back and get grumpy back at me.
But that's just not his personality. Despite all he's been through, he's still just plain nice.
Why can't I believe he is sincere? Why can't I believe that his judgment isn't clouded by how smitten he is with me (which is another thing that I'm having a hard time coming to grips with, because it's never really happened before) and once those initial fluffy feelings wear off he's going to wonder what he's gotten himself into?
I'm leaving out details, like how I spaz out and have meltdowns and am sometimes so overcome by grumpiness and anxiety that I'm kind of an awful person to be around. And like how he sticks around throughout this because he knows I eventually calm down and then I want hugs and he wants to be there to give me hugs.
I asked him specifically if he was sure he was up to this. And he said specifically yes. Yes, that he spent the first couple of weeks we were getting to know each other thinking over it a lot and deciding that his feelings for me were worth it, and he knew that he had to be sure about being with me and that he needed to be sincere.
Why can't I believe him?
I guess what I really want to know here is, can relationships work like this? Can one person be a pusher and an instigator and the other person take it in stride? And I don't mean to imply that I'm not working on being a more pleasant person, but he's just so goddamn *nice* that it makes me scared, or nervous, or hesitant, or something that is not any of those because they aren't the right words. It freaks me out. Do I just need to calm down and accept that there is this person who cares about me with no strings attached, or is my gut telling me that we're not compatible? Is that even a thing? Can people be argumentatively compatible?
Things that may be relevant: Therapy isn't a viable option right now because I am a broke grad student and I'm pretty sure I've used up my free sessions at the student counseling center (and I wouldn't want to occupy that time when other people with more serious problems could be using it). Two, I'm on an antidepressant/anti-anxiety medication that actually allows me to feel like a normal human most of the time but the emotional hooplah of this budding relationship business has me all out of whack.
You distrust him because you've been hurt by someone close to you and that changes people. You may even have PTSD. I don't know, I'm not a doctor, but I've seen it happen. You've gone through a lot.
But there's no shortcut here. You rule out therapy, so why not find a support group in your area for abused women and start there? Call a local women's shelter and I'm sure they could refer you to one...or even better, refer you to a therapist who works on a sliding scale.
You may be a broke grad student, but you need to address this. I mean, if you car broke down, you wouldn't not fix it (to use a double negative), right?
posted by inturnaround at 1:55 PM on September 22, 2010 [3 favorites]
But there's no shortcut here. You rule out therapy, so why not find a support group in your area for abused women and start there? Call a local women's shelter and I'm sure they could refer you to one...or even better, refer you to a therapist who works on a sliding scale.
You may be a broke grad student, but you need to address this. I mean, if you car broke down, you wouldn't not fix it (to use a double negative), right?
posted by inturnaround at 1:55 PM on September 22, 2010 [3 favorites]
If my experience is any indication, yes: people of wildly differing temperaments and differing levels of interest in being polite can stay together for 20 years. It is hard, probably for both people, just like it would be in any relationship with a difference in style. I also think my husband would laugh his butt off at me for thinking I'm the nice one. :) But I did come from a family where we didn't yell very often, and you sort of weren't allowed to get really angry, whereas it was downright encouraged and nurtured in his family. And we have bad fights, and sometimes I am the super angry yelling one, and sometimes he's clearly mellowed out a lot. It's difficult, but if someone's the right one for you, you find a way to work things out most of the time. You probably will both move toward a center balance of sorts as well! Good luck.
posted by theredpen at 1:56 PM on September 22, 2010
posted by theredpen at 1:56 PM on September 22, 2010
I push until they react, until they snap at me or yell back
Ummm...
Why can't I believe he is sincere? ... Why can't I believe that his judgment isn't clouded ... Why can't I believe him?
Because you have a deep-seated issue of some kind. I think you realize this.
I guess what I really want to know here is, can relationships work like this?
Not for long, no. There's no easy way out of this. You need to work this out before you do the relationship dance. If not, you sure won't be any happier. And the nice guy will join a long line of other nice guys that don't understand why being nice isn't working.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 1:58 PM on September 22, 2010 [6 favorites]
Ummm...
Why can't I believe he is sincere? ... Why can't I believe that his judgment isn't clouded ... Why can't I believe him?
Because you have a deep-seated issue of some kind. I think you realize this.
I guess what I really want to know here is, can relationships work like this?
Not for long, no. There's no easy way out of this. You need to work this out before you do the relationship dance. If not, you sure won't be any happier. And the nice guy will join a long line of other nice guys that don't understand why being nice isn't working.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 1:58 PM on September 22, 2010 [6 favorites]
You don't believe people have control over their emotions, because you don't.
You are not other people, and you can't read people's minds. It's not your job to tell people how to think and feel, you can only take that job for yourself.
Maybe you've found a person who is a great person with healthy boundaries and understands that just because you're being a jerk doesn't mean he has to respond in some screwy way or fix you. Another option is you found a martyr who thrives on being abused, or a fixer who hopes he can fix your nuttiness.
The key is boundaries, if you can accept that people are not mechanisms whose buttons you can push, maybe you can stop trying to manipulate them.
In terms of therapy, I wonder if there are support groups you might identify with: anger management, codependency, abuse victims, adult children of alcoholics -- you don't go into your childhood or I could be more specific there.
posted by artlung at 2:01 PM on September 22, 2010 [16 favorites]
You are not other people, and you can't read people's minds. It's not your job to tell people how to think and feel, you can only take that job for yourself.
Maybe you've found a person who is a great person with healthy boundaries and understands that just because you're being a jerk doesn't mean he has to respond in some screwy way or fix you. Another option is you found a martyr who thrives on being abused, or a fixer who hopes he can fix your nuttiness.
The key is boundaries, if you can accept that people are not mechanisms whose buttons you can push, maybe you can stop trying to manipulate them.
In terms of therapy, I wonder if there are support groups you might identify with: anger management, codependency, abuse victims, adult children of alcoholics -- you don't go into your childhood or I could be more specific there.
posted by artlung at 2:01 PM on September 22, 2010 [16 favorites]
I'd like you to read this. To me you sound like an abusive person who is now complaining that you were abused. Your ex wasn't right to abuse you but you also, by your own admission, were not right in abusing him or your new guy. So all I'll say is, even though you are already ruling it out, get therapy because you will eventually break this guy and he's too sweet or too stupid to believe that it can or will happen.
posted by ThomasBrobber at 2:01 PM on September 22, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by ThomasBrobber at 2:01 PM on September 22, 2010 [2 favorites]
I guess what I really want to know here is, can relationships work like this? [...] he's just so goddamn *nice* that it makes me scared, or nervous, or hesitant, or something that is not any of those because they aren't the right words. It freaks me out.
I'd rather be uncomfortable because my partner was so nice, than be uncomfortable because my partner routinely hurt me.
posted by Mike1024 at 2:04 PM on September 22, 2010 [1 favorite]
I'd rather be uncomfortable because my partner was so nice, than be uncomfortable because my partner routinely hurt me.
posted by Mike1024 at 2:04 PM on September 22, 2010 [1 favorite]
I can only guess, and that involves projecting my own tendencies and experiences where they may not belong. My guess is that he might very well be a fixer, who gets some gratification or sense of purpose from helping troubled people. I have this tendency. I'm not proud of it, or happy about it. I've managed to grow past it to a significant degree, but the native tendency is still there.
If it were me, I would probably tolerate quite a bit of crap for quite a long time. In fact, I would even welcome that crap, because the fact that I can tolerate what others wouldn't can be a point of (misplaced) pride. Self-sacrifice would give me that sense of purpose. It would also prevent a more mature, mutually respectful relationship from developing, and that, too, might be comfortable for me in a rather unhealthy way.
Eventually, though, I would find it exhausting and I would come to resent it. Unfortunately, by the time I told you I couldn't take it anymore, I'd have thoroughly trained you to expect to be able to treat me badly without any consequences. And you would, quite reasonably, rebel against my complaint. The ensuing crisis might very well end the relationship.
As I said, I could be projecting all of this where it doesn't belong.
posted by jon1270 at 2:07 PM on September 22, 2010 [5 favorites]
If it were me, I would probably tolerate quite a bit of crap for quite a long time. In fact, I would even welcome that crap, because the fact that I can tolerate what others wouldn't can be a point of (misplaced) pride. Self-sacrifice would give me that sense of purpose. It would also prevent a more mature, mutually respectful relationship from developing, and that, too, might be comfortable for me in a rather unhealthy way.
Eventually, though, I would find it exhausting and I would come to resent it. Unfortunately, by the time I told you I couldn't take it anymore, I'd have thoroughly trained you to expect to be able to treat me badly without any consequences. And you would, quite reasonably, rebel against my complaint. The ensuing crisis might very well end the relationship.
As I said, I could be projecting all of this where it doesn't belong.
posted by jon1270 at 2:07 PM on September 22, 2010 [5 favorites]
He is patient and kind and gentle and all I want is for him to push *back.* I want him to be mean to me
A relationship can't work this way. I am guessing that this guy is a fixer, which is why there is no push back. This was painful to read, because I feel like I'm watching a cycle of abuse perpetuate itself. Please look into finding affordable therapy. Relationships don't have to be yelling and pushing buttons.
Can one person be a pusher and an instigator and the other person take it in stride?
Not the way you describe in a healthy relationship.
posted by Zophi at 2:11 PM on September 22, 2010 [4 favorites]
A relationship can't work this way. I am guessing that this guy is a fixer, which is why there is no push back. This was painful to read, because I feel like I'm watching a cycle of abuse perpetuate itself. Please look into finding affordable therapy. Relationships don't have to be yelling and pushing buttons.
Can one person be a pusher and an instigator and the other person take it in stride?
Not the way you describe in a healthy relationship.
posted by Zophi at 2:11 PM on September 22, 2010 [4 favorites]
He is patient and kind and gentle and all I want is for him to push *back.* I want him to be mean to me when I'm mean to him
This is not really a healthy thing to do in a relationship in general, and I doubt you are going to find someone who will react the way you want him to without getting into the same problems you had before. Not to be harsh, but it sounds like you are basically being emotionally abusive to him and expecting him to be emotionally abusive back. It sounds like he is not really bothered by the abuse (so it doesn't really "work"), because he knows you will calm down and return to normal. The other main possible reactions would be that he would end the relationship to avoid the abuse, or become emotionally and/or physically abusive in the way you are expecting.
Can people be argumentatively compatible?
You're not really argumentatively compatible with people in general right now. You are working on that, which is a good thing, but you seriously need to look at this as something you fundamentally need to get rid of rather than just you being an argumentative person. You should not want to be mean to your partner and hurt them emotionally until they get upset enough to hurt you back.
posted by burnmp3s at 2:11 PM on September 22, 2010 [7 favorites]
This is not really a healthy thing to do in a relationship in general, and I doubt you are going to find someone who will react the way you want him to without getting into the same problems you had before. Not to be harsh, but it sounds like you are basically being emotionally abusive to him and expecting him to be emotionally abusive back. It sounds like he is not really bothered by the abuse (so it doesn't really "work"), because he knows you will calm down and return to normal. The other main possible reactions would be that he would end the relationship to avoid the abuse, or become emotionally and/or physically abusive in the way you are expecting.
Can people be argumentatively compatible?
You're not really argumentatively compatible with people in general right now. You are working on that, which is a good thing, but you seriously need to look at this as something you fundamentally need to get rid of rather than just you being an argumentative person. You should not want to be mean to your partner and hurt them emotionally until they get upset enough to hurt you back.
posted by burnmp3s at 2:11 PM on September 22, 2010 [7 favorites]
First, I'd check with your University. I bet they have counseling services, especially if they have a grad program.
Why can't I believe he is sincere? Why can't I believe that his judgment isn't clouded by how smitten he is with me (which is another thing that I'm having a hard time coming to grips with, because it's never really happened before) and once those initial fluffy feelings wear off he's going to wonder what he's gotten himself into?
Can't is not the best word here. What you are asking is why is it hard to do this? It isn't impossible, just difficult.
but you already know the answer to this question. You've suffered abuse. I suspect earlier than the last boyfriend. And that abuse shamed you. It told you you were no good and it is really hard not to listen to something that seems so real.
No matter how real it seems, it is not.
I will be honest with you, I have suffered a lot, and I push away and I hide from people who want to get close to me--because I've suffered abuse too. It is so hard not to believe that very powerful voice.
But I am starting to learn that that voice is wrong. I'm starting to not listen to it and start looking at facts in front of me. But it isn't easy.
I do have help. I think the best help you can get is counseling and I think you need to get some one way or the other. But you can get counseling in a book, too. And the best book for that is Feeling Good, the New Mood Therapy from Dr. David Burns.
The problem for you is that you are not going to want to do it because it is big and scary and activates everything you're afraid of. But if you stick with it, you'll see real results you cannot deny.
I'd continue to listen to him and try to test him less. I'd start with hugs and push less.
posted by Ironmouth at 2:13 PM on September 22, 2010 [1 favorite]
Why can't I believe he is sincere? Why can't I believe that his judgment isn't clouded by how smitten he is with me (which is another thing that I'm having a hard time coming to grips with, because it's never really happened before) and once those initial fluffy feelings wear off he's going to wonder what he's gotten himself into?
Can't is not the best word here. What you are asking is why is it hard to do this? It isn't impossible, just difficult.
but you already know the answer to this question. You've suffered abuse. I suspect earlier than the last boyfriend. And that abuse shamed you. It told you you were no good and it is really hard not to listen to something that seems so real.
No matter how real it seems, it is not.
I will be honest with you, I have suffered a lot, and I push away and I hide from people who want to get close to me--because I've suffered abuse too. It is so hard not to believe that very powerful voice.
But I am starting to learn that that voice is wrong. I'm starting to not listen to it and start looking at facts in front of me. But it isn't easy.
I do have help. I think the best help you can get is counseling and I think you need to get some one way or the other. But you can get counseling in a book, too. And the best book for that is Feeling Good, the New Mood Therapy from Dr. David Burns.
The problem for you is that you are not going to want to do it because it is big and scary and activates everything you're afraid of. But if you stick with it, you'll see real results you cannot deny.
I'd continue to listen to him and try to test him less. I'd start with hugs and push less.
posted by Ironmouth at 2:13 PM on September 22, 2010 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: At the risk of digging myself deeper, I feel that I should clarify that some of the things I wrote in the original question ("I am mean," etc) were an attempt at brevity. I believe a lot of things about myself like I am a mean person and I am a bad person. New Guy really honestly insists that I've done nothing to actually illustrate that.
I probably blabbed too much. I know I have issues and I thought they'd been resolved--that was the past school year in therapy, getting over Ex, or so I thought. Now being faced with the actual possibility of a real relationship again has me all bristly and on my guard.
I guess I just really want to know if things like this can work. I have a temper, and I've told New Guy and he understands that I will push and instigate. But I know as well, because he's told me, that he doesn't fight back and his idea of an argument is speaking calmly even in the face of my irrationality. He tells me that he understands that most of what I call 'my crazy' is coming from being all messy in my head from my relationship with Ex.
I guess I just want to know if this can work, because we greatly care about each other but I AM afraid of breaking him, even though he says that I won't. I just don't know if the disparity of our, er...confrontational styles (for extreme lack of a better term) will either create buttloads of tension or will instead mesh well.
I don't want to feel crazy and I want to be happy. This doesn't feel like an overwhelming issue to me right now; it feels like the last cycles of crazy playing out before I'll calm down enough to be an adult.
(also I'm in southern New Mexico.)
And on preview: I don't want to go into too much detail but he dealt with some serious abuse as a child from his father and his ex-wife was terrible to him. I don't think he's a fixer but it's definitely something to consider...and we've talked about these sorts of things, how I don't know how it's possible for him to be so nice instead of succumbing to the cycle of abuse from his dad, and he just says...that he knows what it's like to be treated like that so he is a different person than that.
posted by LokiBear at 2:16 PM on September 22, 2010
I probably blabbed too much. I know I have issues and I thought they'd been resolved--that was the past school year in therapy, getting over Ex, or so I thought. Now being faced with the actual possibility of a real relationship again has me all bristly and on my guard.
I guess I just really want to know if things like this can work. I have a temper, and I've told New Guy and he understands that I will push and instigate. But I know as well, because he's told me, that he doesn't fight back and his idea of an argument is speaking calmly even in the face of my irrationality. He tells me that he understands that most of what I call 'my crazy' is coming from being all messy in my head from my relationship with Ex.
I guess I just want to know if this can work, because we greatly care about each other but I AM afraid of breaking him, even though he says that I won't. I just don't know if the disparity of our, er...confrontational styles (for extreme lack of a better term) will either create buttloads of tension or will instead mesh well.
I don't want to feel crazy and I want to be happy. This doesn't feel like an overwhelming issue to me right now; it feels like the last cycles of crazy playing out before I'll calm down enough to be an adult.
(also I'm in southern New Mexico.)
And on preview: I don't want to go into too much detail but he dealt with some serious abuse as a child from his father and his ex-wife was terrible to him. I don't think he's a fixer but it's definitely something to consider...and we've talked about these sorts of things, how I don't know how it's possible for him to be so nice instead of succumbing to the cycle of abuse from his dad, and he just says...that he knows what it's like to be treated like that so he is a different person than that.
posted by LokiBear at 2:16 PM on September 22, 2010
Best answer: Why can't I believe he is sincere? Why can't I believe that his judgment isn't clouded by how smitten he is with me (which is another thing that I'm having a hard time coming to grips with, because it's never really happened before) and once those initial fluffy feelings wear off he's going to wonder what he's gotten himself into?
You need to learn to take this as an article of faith, to suspend disbelief, even if you're suspicious of anything in such a nice package. If he says he's into you and he's up for dealing with everything that accompanies being with you, he really is. Sincerely. Yes, he may at some point wonder what he's gotten himself into, or your relationship may not last, but those things are entirely separate from the matter of his sincerity in being interested in you and wanting to be with you now. He can be frustrated with you without it being that he's lying when he says he's into you.
By repeatedly doubting his sincerity, you are in effect calling him a liar, a dissembler. Apart from any other problems the two of you may have, that one needs to be addressed. You need to learn to trust him when he expresses his feelings to you, even if you don't think he could possibly feel that saccharine-sweet about you.
And you also need to tell him if particular expressions make you uncomfortable—does it make you feel weird when he compliments your appearance? Does it make you feel weird when he says other complimentary things? Does it make you feel weird when he does nice things for you? And can you unpack that weird feeling—do you feel that way because you feel like you don't deserve such treatment? Or because you don't like to "owe" people anything, and you feel like his niceness leaves you in debt of a sort? Or perhaps because of a belief that "real people" aren't that sweet to other people, so he must be in some way insincere in his affections?
One of your worries, I bet, is that you think he's deluding himself, that if he really let himself understand the real you, he wouldn't want to be with you anymore. Well...it sounds like you've let him see both the good and the bad of the "real you" on a number of occasions, and he's still with you. So let him decide that for himself.
Can one person be a pusher and an instigator and the other person take it in stride?
Yes. Absolutely. Especially if you've reached an understanding about the way you each are—that while you're each trying your best to be good to each other, you will occasionally push him too much, and he will occasionally take too much from you that he probably shouldn't. That doesn't mean that he's being fake or passive, and it doesn't mean that you're an awful person incapable of giving or receiving love.
Can people be argumentatively compatible?
Yes. But I bet that the two of you would have fewer arguments if you would accept a few baseline conditions as being true—that he truly wants to be with you, that he's truly up to handling the task (or will let you know if he's not), that he's not deluding himself about who you really are, that he's not manipulating you, and that he is a real person with real feelings, just ones that seem to be more saccharine or more easygoing, perhaps, than you're used to.
posted by limeonaire at 2:21 PM on September 22, 2010 [4 favorites]
You need to learn to take this as an article of faith, to suspend disbelief, even if you're suspicious of anything in such a nice package. If he says he's into you and he's up for dealing with everything that accompanies being with you, he really is. Sincerely. Yes, he may at some point wonder what he's gotten himself into, or your relationship may not last, but those things are entirely separate from the matter of his sincerity in being interested in you and wanting to be with you now. He can be frustrated with you without it being that he's lying when he says he's into you.
By repeatedly doubting his sincerity, you are in effect calling him a liar, a dissembler. Apart from any other problems the two of you may have, that one needs to be addressed. You need to learn to trust him when he expresses his feelings to you, even if you don't think he could possibly feel that saccharine-sweet about you.
And you also need to tell him if particular expressions make you uncomfortable—does it make you feel weird when he compliments your appearance? Does it make you feel weird when he says other complimentary things? Does it make you feel weird when he does nice things for you? And can you unpack that weird feeling—do you feel that way because you feel like you don't deserve such treatment? Or because you don't like to "owe" people anything, and you feel like his niceness leaves you in debt of a sort? Or perhaps because of a belief that "real people" aren't that sweet to other people, so he must be in some way insincere in his affections?
One of your worries, I bet, is that you think he's deluding himself, that if he really let himself understand the real you, he wouldn't want to be with you anymore. Well...it sounds like you've let him see both the good and the bad of the "real you" on a number of occasions, and he's still with you. So let him decide that for himself.
Can one person be a pusher and an instigator and the other person take it in stride?
Yes. Absolutely. Especially if you've reached an understanding about the way you each are—that while you're each trying your best to be good to each other, you will occasionally push him too much, and he will occasionally take too much from you that he probably shouldn't. That doesn't mean that he's being fake or passive, and it doesn't mean that you're an awful person incapable of giving or receiving love.
Can people be argumentatively compatible?
Yes. But I bet that the two of you would have fewer arguments if you would accept a few baseline conditions as being true—that he truly wants to be with you, that he's truly up to handling the task (or will let you know if he's not), that he's not deluding himself about who you really are, that he's not manipulating you, and that he is a real person with real feelings, just ones that seem to be more saccharine or more easygoing, perhaps, than you're used to.
posted by limeonaire at 2:21 PM on September 22, 2010 [4 favorites]
It sounds like, for one thing, you don't know whether or not to trust your own judgement about how you're treating the guy. It's possible you're being horrible to him and for whatever reason he's not reacting badly; it's also possible that you're being relatively normal but your have distorted perceptions of how you're behaving. (Or, hey, both!) That's why I'm going to jump on the "therapy" bandwagon -- a neutral third party can help you figure out which issues you need to be dealing with, whether they be your moods and subsequent behavior, your perceptions, or your ability to trust.
posted by wyzewoman at 2:27 PM on September 22, 2010
posted by wyzewoman at 2:27 PM on September 22, 2010
I have found that similar confrontational styles mesh together better than two different ones. But if he can actually handle your temper, than all the more power to him (and if you can handle his lack of temper, well good for you both!).
Now, if you were to become interested in taming down your temper towards significant others, I'll stand in agreement with: "I'd continue to listen to him and try to test him less. I'd start with hugs and push less" and pretty much all of artlung's post.
posted by The Biggest Dreamer at 2:34 PM on September 22, 2010
Now, if you were to become interested in taming down your temper towards significant others, I'll stand in agreement with: "I'd continue to listen to him and try to test him less. I'd start with hugs and push less" and pretty much all of artlung's post.
posted by The Biggest Dreamer at 2:34 PM on September 22, 2010
To address a question, "relationships like this," with things at or near the margins, don't stand a great chance--but the die is not cast and you are actively interested in, for lack of a better expression, getting better.
What stood out for me is that he, too, has been down a very tough road.
Unless I missed it, I reckon his frame of mind had some rough times and he has made considerable strides in overcoming them.
From that, it makes sense that he believes you can and will make similar progress... which, the thinking goes, he knows is not easy, fast or without its ups and downs.
Obviously it's bad that both of you have experienced these things, but in some respects you can relate to each other more than either of you could relate to someone who has not had those experiences.
posted by ambient2 at 2:38 PM on September 22, 2010
What stood out for me is that he, too, has been down a very tough road.
Unless I missed it, I reckon his frame of mind had some rough times and he has made considerable strides in overcoming them.
From that, it makes sense that he believes you can and will make similar progress... which, the thinking goes, he knows is not easy, fast or without its ups and downs.
Obviously it's bad that both of you have experienced these things, but in some respects you can relate to each other more than either of you could relate to someone who has not had those experiences.
posted by ambient2 at 2:38 PM on September 22, 2010
Best answer: At the risk of digging myself deeper, I feel that I should clarify that some of the things I wrote in the original question ("I am mean," etc) were an attempt at brevity. I believe a lot of things about myself like I am a mean person and I am a bad person. New Guy really honestly insists that I've done nothing to actually illustrate that.
I probably blabbed too much. I know I have issues and I thought they'd been resolved--that was the past school year in therapy, getting over Ex, or so I thought. Now being faced with the actual possibility of a real relationship again has me all bristly and on my guard.
I guess I just really want to know if things like this can work. I have a temper, and I've told New Guy and he understands that I will push and instigate. But I know as well, because he's told me, that he doesn't fight back and his idea of an argument is speaking calmly even in the face of my irrationality. He tells me that he understands that most of what I call 'my crazy' is coming from being all messy in my head from my relationship with Ex.
I guess I just want to know if this can work, because we greatly care about each other but I AM afraid of breaking him, even though he says that I won't. I just don't know if the disparity of our, er...confrontational styles (for extreme lack of a better term) will either create buttloads of tension or will instead mesh well.
But you are aware of the problem. You are taking steps to correct it. You have discussed the matter with him. All of this bodes very, very well for you.
If you had come in and said, My bf says I'm an argumentative jerk and I think he's wrong and then given examples of how terrible you are, well, I'd say you have a long way to go.
But you didn't say that. You said you were a work in progress and that you were trying and that you and him had discussed the issues and that you were working through it. These are the hallmarks of success.
Now go see him and get your hugs.
posted by Ironmouth at 2:47 PM on September 22, 2010 [4 favorites]
I probably blabbed too much. I know I have issues and I thought they'd been resolved--that was the past school year in therapy, getting over Ex, or so I thought. Now being faced with the actual possibility of a real relationship again has me all bristly and on my guard.
I guess I just really want to know if things like this can work. I have a temper, and I've told New Guy and he understands that I will push and instigate. But I know as well, because he's told me, that he doesn't fight back and his idea of an argument is speaking calmly even in the face of my irrationality. He tells me that he understands that most of what I call 'my crazy' is coming from being all messy in my head from my relationship with Ex.
I guess I just want to know if this can work, because we greatly care about each other but I AM afraid of breaking him, even though he says that I won't. I just don't know if the disparity of our, er...confrontational styles (for extreme lack of a better term) will either create buttloads of tension or will instead mesh well.
But you are aware of the problem. You are taking steps to correct it. You have discussed the matter with him. All of this bodes very, very well for you.
If you had come in and said, My bf says I'm an argumentative jerk and I think he's wrong and then given examples of how terrible you are, well, I'd say you have a long way to go.
But you didn't say that. You said you were a work in progress and that you were trying and that you and him had discussed the issues and that you were working through it. These are the hallmarks of success.
Now go see him and get your hugs.
posted by Ironmouth at 2:47 PM on September 22, 2010 [4 favorites]
I think you should try to find a counsellor or therapist who specializes in abuse issues. You need help and guidance to stop being emotionally abusive.
I can sort of see where you're coming from, it sounds like you're waiting for the other shoe to drop. So you are hoping to provoke your partner until he becomes abusive too, which would get it over with. Or at least that is how your post reads to me.
I was going to say more but I felt my own anger escalating. All I can say is, seriously please get help, don't try to make more vampires.
posted by tel3path at 2:49 PM on September 22, 2010 [3 favorites]
I can sort of see where you're coming from, it sounds like you're waiting for the other shoe to drop. So you are hoping to provoke your partner until he becomes abusive too, which would get it over with. Or at least that is how your post reads to me.
I was going to say more but I felt my own anger escalating. All I can say is, seriously please get help, don't try to make more vampires.
posted by tel3path at 2:49 PM on September 22, 2010 [3 favorites]
Best answer: I wonder if you have been trained by your experience to think that you deserve for people to be awful to you. I once had a girl break up with me because I was "too nice". And at the time I had been trying to give it a chance but had been wondering if she was "too mean" for me and whether we could make it longer term, because I wasn't sure I could keep absorbing that.
Her background was exactly as you describe your own. Her college boyfriend beat her up as did her husband, whom she fled. She was less of a pusher and poker than you describe, but still seemed to be on an aggressive stance and would fire shots at me for reasons I couldn't understand. When she broke up with me, she said dating me showed her she wasn't ready and had to get back to therapy to try to deal with some of these issues. She seemed to feel so guilty about who she was and kept telling me what a nice person I was.
I thought about her a lot as we dated and after she broke up with me. I wondered why she gravitated towards people who were abusive. But that's not an unusual story, is it. I'm positive there are much more studied analyses of this out there, but I wonder if these people have been trained to think that they deserve it. You, for example, have cast yourself as a horrible person, and you can't believe him when he says that he really likes you. Do you not believe him because you can't see how anyone could like someone like you? That's what it sounds like (whoops, on preview I see that that you've basically confirmed that).
If so, this is about worth, namely your assessment of your own. The guy you're with sounds so supportive and understanding. What a great environment and opportunity for you to work on increasing your sense of self worth and self esteem. You have someone to counter your negative inner monologue and challenge you to prove it and show you evidence to the contrary. You can let go of the raft and try to swim, knowing that you've got a partner to help you if you need it. That sounds like a gift!
You're asking us whether this can work because you're afraid of going forward, afraid of messing it up, afraid of messing him up. He sounds like he's very much aware of the implications and wants to go ahead. He's a big boy and he's willing to take the risks that people take in venturing out and sharing themselves with someone else. So you have to make the same decision of whether you're willing to risk it. We can't tell you if this can work, but Yoda would tell you "do or do not - there is no try."
posted by kookoobirdz at 2:52 PM on September 22, 2010 [4 favorites]
Her background was exactly as you describe your own. Her college boyfriend beat her up as did her husband, whom she fled. She was less of a pusher and poker than you describe, but still seemed to be on an aggressive stance and would fire shots at me for reasons I couldn't understand. When she broke up with me, she said dating me showed her she wasn't ready and had to get back to therapy to try to deal with some of these issues. She seemed to feel so guilty about who she was and kept telling me what a nice person I was.
I thought about her a lot as we dated and after she broke up with me. I wondered why she gravitated towards people who were abusive. But that's not an unusual story, is it. I'm positive there are much more studied analyses of this out there, but I wonder if these people have been trained to think that they deserve it. You, for example, have cast yourself as a horrible person, and you can't believe him when he says that he really likes you. Do you not believe him because you can't see how anyone could like someone like you? That's what it sounds like (whoops, on preview I see that that you've basically confirmed that).
If so, this is about worth, namely your assessment of your own. The guy you're with sounds so supportive and understanding. What a great environment and opportunity for you to work on increasing your sense of self worth and self esteem. You have someone to counter your negative inner monologue and challenge you to prove it and show you evidence to the contrary. You can let go of the raft and try to swim, knowing that you've got a partner to help you if you need it. That sounds like a gift!
You're asking us whether this can work because you're afraid of going forward, afraid of messing it up, afraid of messing him up. He sounds like he's very much aware of the implications and wants to go ahead. He's a big boy and he's willing to take the risks that people take in venturing out and sharing themselves with someone else. So you have to make the same decision of whether you're willing to risk it. We can't tell you if this can work, but Yoda would tell you "do or do not - there is no try."
posted by kookoobirdz at 2:52 PM on September 22, 2010 [4 favorites]
Okay, I've gone back and read your reply... I didn't mean to be so hard on you. I also want to say that it's good that you're aware of what you're doing and you're trying to change, and please believe me that you can do it if you put your mind to it and get the right kind of help. I've seen people do this when they really want to. The problem is that most people really don't want to so by humbling yourself enough to seek help, and putting the effort in, you're so much further along than a lot of people will ever be.
I'm going to go and work on my own issues now...
posted by tel3path at 2:53 PM on September 22, 2010
I'm going to go and work on my own issues now...
posted by tel3path at 2:53 PM on September 22, 2010
I believe a lot of things about myself like I am a mean person and I am a bad person.
That is a common belief for people emerging from an abusive relationship. A consistent abusive message in such relationships is that the victim deserves the abuse. Most victims internalize that message. Also, a very common form of PTSD is to view oneself as somehow having caused the trauma. If you can blame a particular behavior or characteristic, you may feel you can control whether the trauma happens again.
Actually, abuse is the fault of the abuser, period.
As for this guy . . . I am the wife of an incredibly kind and sweet man (who also had a pre-me history of getting involved with needy women.) I myself am something of a bitch, though not to my sweetie. It took me quite awhile in my own life before I was emotionally grown up to not be attracted to withholding, cold people, and to realize when I finally met him how appealing my husband's s kindness and sweetness is. Now my husband supports me when I have to be tough in my job, and he sics me on people like obnoxious telephone solicitors or house painters who try to wriggle out of contractual agreements.
Just accept this lovely man and treat him well. Yes, you deserve him if he thinks you do, and if you value him.
posted by bearwife at 3:04 PM on September 22, 2010 [1 favorite]
That is a common belief for people emerging from an abusive relationship. A consistent abusive message in such relationships is that the victim deserves the abuse. Most victims internalize that message. Also, a very common form of PTSD is to view oneself as somehow having caused the trauma. If you can blame a particular behavior or characteristic, you may feel you can control whether the trauma happens again.
Actually, abuse is the fault of the abuser, period.
As for this guy . . . I am the wife of an incredibly kind and sweet man (who also had a pre-me history of getting involved with needy women.) I myself am something of a bitch, though not to my sweetie. It took me quite awhile in my own life before I was emotionally grown up to not be attracted to withholding, cold people, and to realize when I finally met him how appealing my husband's s kindness and sweetness is. Now my husband supports me when I have to be tough in my job, and he sics me on people like obnoxious telephone solicitors or house painters who try to wriggle out of contractual agreements.
Just accept this lovely man and treat him well. Yes, you deserve him if he thinks you do, and if you value him.
posted by bearwife at 3:04 PM on September 22, 2010 [1 favorite]
>I guess what I really want to know here is, can relationships work like this? Can one person be a pusher and an instigator and the other person take it in stride?
This depends on how you define "work"; it might persist, but it probably won't be fun to watch.
You might want to consider some other questions:
If you weren't a "pusher" and an "instigator," who would you be?
How did you label yourself, before you labeled yourself as a Pusher-and-An-Instigator?
If you wanted to identify with other, more useful ways of labeling and organizing yourself... what do you believe you would have to give up?
posted by darth_tedious at 3:04 PM on September 22, 2010 [2 favorites]
This depends on how you define "work"; it might persist, but it probably won't be fun to watch.
You might want to consider some other questions:
If you weren't a "pusher" and an "instigator," who would you be?
How did you label yourself, before you labeled yourself as a Pusher-and-An-Instigator?
If you wanted to identify with other, more useful ways of labeling and organizing yourself... what do you believe you would have to give up?
posted by darth_tedious at 3:04 PM on September 22, 2010 [2 favorites]
Best answer: I've been there, although my hangups aren't so much in the "temper" area as "spiraling neuroses." Most of the time I'm pretty easygoing and wouldn't consider myself too high-maintenance, but I have a tendency to want a pushback reaction of some sort. To me, that signifies that someone is paying attention to me and what I am saying or doing. My most recent relationship had been a year of arguments that got resolved -- which I saw as healthy, because hey, we fixed things and talked about them and isn't this great? I craved intensity -- not drama, but intensity.
So when I got together with my current partner/fiance about two years ago, I told him flat out (like you did) that I NEEDED engagement, getting wrapped into conversations and coming out on the other side. My partner, on the other hand, has a "high tolerance for inappropriate behavior" (a statement by his therapist that became a little joke between us), and although he's great at communicating, he acquiesces pretty easily. And I didn't like that at all, because it felt like he didn't care about the things I was saying.
Finally he gave me a very gentle ultimatum. I had asked him to be a little more hard-edged in some things, and he said, "I know you like me for who I am, and I can do some things I'm not used to doing if you say you like them. But I'm not intense like him, and I can't do that."
But it also reminded me of when I was early in my relationship with that previous person, when I was nervously explaining how I tended to act in one situation or another. He said, "Why don't you stop telling me how you 'usually' act, and just concentrate on how you DO act?" I thought I was showing how well I knew myself and my reactions, but really I was showing how insecure I was and how much I needed to know what was happening next.
Just go with it. Focus on the things he can give you and the things you can explore together, not what other people have done with you or what might happen in this or that eventuality. You're not the same person you were in any other relationship; you're older, you have different priorities, you have different experiences under your belt. And that's a good thing!
posted by Madamina at 3:10 PM on September 22, 2010 [1 favorite]
So when I got together with my current partner/fiance about two years ago, I told him flat out (like you did) that I NEEDED engagement, getting wrapped into conversations and coming out on the other side. My partner, on the other hand, has a "high tolerance for inappropriate behavior" (a statement by his therapist that became a little joke between us), and although he's great at communicating, he acquiesces pretty easily. And I didn't like that at all, because it felt like he didn't care about the things I was saying.
Finally he gave me a very gentle ultimatum. I had asked him to be a little more hard-edged in some things, and he said, "I know you like me for who I am, and I can do some things I'm not used to doing if you say you like them. But I'm not intense like him, and I can't do that."
But it also reminded me of when I was early in my relationship with that previous person, when I was nervously explaining how I tended to act in one situation or another. He said, "Why don't you stop telling me how you 'usually' act, and just concentrate on how you DO act?" I thought I was showing how well I knew myself and my reactions, but really I was showing how insecure I was and how much I needed to know what was happening next.
Just go with it. Focus on the things he can give you and the things you can explore together, not what other people have done with you or what might happen in this or that eventuality. You're not the same person you were in any other relationship; you're older, you have different priorities, you have different experiences under your belt. And that's a good thing!
posted by Madamina at 3:10 PM on September 22, 2010 [1 favorite]
If someone has a "difficult" childhood (I think you know what I mean by this), they will commonly have a lot of emotionally unmet needs. These needs tend to get neglected and when they do crop up, it can be really painful. I wouldn't be surprised if the closer he gets to you, the stronger urge you have to push him away (i.e. be mean to him).
You have to accept the fact that you are worthy of having someone genuinely care about you. You deserve to be happy.
posted by WhiteWhale at 3:17 PM on September 22, 2010 [1 favorite]
You have to accept the fact that you are worthy of having someone genuinely care about you. You deserve to be happy.
posted by WhiteWhale at 3:17 PM on September 22, 2010 [1 favorite]
It can work if you gradually are able to trust him and stop the intentional attempts to create drama. That's normal for someone with your history, so I'm not criticizing, but really this is a serious thing that is not going to be easy to resolve without help.
As for him -- guys like that do tend to be the fixer/codependent type. Thats not all bad, but it does mean he'll put up with an enormous amount of shit. Unfortunately, that doesn't really mean the relationship is good, which can be confusing to both parties. I was in your boyfriend's situation in my marriage, and we kept it going for 14 years before it finally broke. He will probably _never_ admit to any problems or that you're hurting him, but that doesnt mean it's true. I know others here say to believe him, and I'm not trying to make everyone paranoid... but the reality is that codependent people DO NOT admit when people hurt them. They take the responsibility on themselves and act EVEN NICER in response, thinking all they need is to sacrifice and love and they can fix the other person. It's almost a "good thing" when someone pushes you, because you get to prove how awesome you are. Except of course that its not, and it puts an enormous strain on the person and the relationship, and inevitably it causes it to snap.
But of course people change. Both of you probably need therapy, I can't really help with the cost/availability issue. Even if you can't now, if you can in the future I recommend it. The chance of changing this pattern entirely on your own is much lower.
posted by wildcrdj at 3:20 PM on September 22, 2010 [6 favorites]
As for him -- guys like that do tend to be the fixer/codependent type. Thats not all bad, but it does mean he'll put up with an enormous amount of shit. Unfortunately, that doesn't really mean the relationship is good, which can be confusing to both parties. I was in your boyfriend's situation in my marriage, and we kept it going for 14 years before it finally broke. He will probably _never_ admit to any problems or that you're hurting him, but that doesnt mean it's true. I know others here say to believe him, and I'm not trying to make everyone paranoid... but the reality is that codependent people DO NOT admit when people hurt them. They take the responsibility on themselves and act EVEN NICER in response, thinking all they need is to sacrifice and love and they can fix the other person. It's almost a "good thing" when someone pushes you, because you get to prove how awesome you are. Except of course that its not, and it puts an enormous strain on the person and the relationship, and inevitably it causes it to snap.
But of course people change. Both of you probably need therapy, I can't really help with the cost/availability issue. Even if you can't now, if you can in the future I recommend it. The chance of changing this pattern entirely on your own is much lower.
posted by wildcrdj at 3:20 PM on September 22, 2010 [6 favorites]
Honestly, your pushing and instigating are not okay. You sound emotionally abusive to me.
He is patient and kind and gentle and all I want is for him to push *back.* I want him to be mean to me when I'm mean to him ... I want him to yell back and get grumpy back at me.
It honestly sounds to me like you are trying to get him to engage in a mutually abusive relationship with you. Maybe that would make you feel as if your behavior is more normal and/or it would make you feel less guilty for behaving that way towards him.
No. Your behavior does not become okay if he behaves the same way back. You need to STOP what you are doing. Your word choice (describing yourself as an "argumentative, grumpy little thing") paints your behavior as something kind of cute and quirky, and you as a kind of harmless, broken little thing. You may feel broken and be in pain, but that doesn't make this harmless or okay.
You need to talk to a therapist who works with perpetrators of emotional abuse instead of trying to make your boyfriend meaner.
posted by Ashley801 at 3:24 PM on September 22, 2010 [11 favorites]
He is patient and kind and gentle and all I want is for him to push *back.* I want him to be mean to me when I'm mean to him ... I want him to yell back and get grumpy back at me.
It honestly sounds to me like you are trying to get him to engage in a mutually abusive relationship with you. Maybe that would make you feel as if your behavior is more normal and/or it would make you feel less guilty for behaving that way towards him.
No. Your behavior does not become okay if he behaves the same way back. You need to STOP what you are doing. Your word choice (describing yourself as an "argumentative, grumpy little thing") paints your behavior as something kind of cute and quirky, and you as a kind of harmless, broken little thing. You may feel broken and be in pain, but that doesn't make this harmless or okay.
You need to talk to a therapist who works with perpetrators of emotional abuse instead of trying to make your boyfriend meaner.
posted by Ashley801 at 3:24 PM on September 22, 2010 [11 favorites]
I don't know how it's possible for him to be so nice instead of succumbing to the cycle of abuse from his dad, and he just says...that he knows what it's like to be treated like that so he is a different person than that.
It sounds like he IS still succumbing to the cycle of abuse from his dad, with you in the role of his dad.
posted by Ashley801 at 3:26 PM on September 22, 2010 [8 favorites]
It sounds like he IS still succumbing to the cycle of abuse from his dad, with you in the role of his dad.
posted by Ashley801 at 3:26 PM on September 22, 2010 [8 favorites]
If you can't afford therapy, there are metric tons of self help books out there covering emotional abuse and abusers, and how to learn better ways of behaving, which you can find at any decent library.
posted by Ashley801 at 3:29 PM on September 22, 2010
posted by Ashley801 at 3:29 PM on September 22, 2010
Can one person be a pusher and an instigator and the other person take it in stride?
Sure, maybe, but I don't think this is the relationship your want. There are plenty of people who like having these contentious relationships and don't take it personally; it's just how they are. Maybe people like the push and pull of power struggles in their relationships, or fights that end with passionate reconciliation. I guess you have to ask yourself how important that is to you in a relationship, because you're not going to get it from this guy. Is he worth it that you're willing to give up your need for drama/reactions/etc.? Because you're going to have to change that if you want to stay with a guy like this. Or maybe you'll decide that you want a kind of domineering type willing to dish it out.
This isn't really a moral judgment about how you should or shouldn't act. It's more a question of what you want in a relationship and interactions with a boyfriend.
posted by deanc at 3:33 PM on September 22, 2010
Sure, maybe, but I don't think this is the relationship your want. There are plenty of people who like having these contentious relationships and don't take it personally; it's just how they are. Maybe people like the push and pull of power struggles in their relationships, or fights that end with passionate reconciliation. I guess you have to ask yourself how important that is to you in a relationship, because you're not going to get it from this guy. Is he worth it that you're willing to give up your need for drama/reactions/etc.? Because you're going to have to change that if you want to stay with a guy like this. Or maybe you'll decide that you want a kind of domineering type willing to dish it out.
This isn't really a moral judgment about how you should or shouldn't act. It's more a question of what you want in a relationship and interactions with a boyfriend.
posted by deanc at 3:33 PM on September 22, 2010
It's possible you're being horrible to him and for whatever reason he's not reacting badly; it's also possible that you're being relatively normal but your have distorted perceptions of how you're behaving.
This is true, and it's hard to tell what "being mean to him" means without concrete examples. But just going by the description there are clearly some non-healthy aspects to this relationship. It's not normal for someone to have to make a tough decision about dealing with frequent meltdowns within the first couple weeks of a relationship, and as others have said the kinds of "fixers" who make the choice to stay in this kind of situation are not always very good at pressuring their partners to take steps toward more healthy behavior. The one actual event mentioned was throwing him out of the house while yelling at him, which is not behavior that most people would put up with in a very new relationship.
It's difficult to tell from the relatively vague description, but this sounds like serious issues that need to be addressed in therapy rather than merely having a temper or being argumentative. I could be completely wrong though and I'm not a therapist, so I apologize if I'm not interpreting the situation correctly.
posted by burnmp3s at 3:41 PM on September 22, 2010
This is true, and it's hard to tell what "being mean to him" means without concrete examples. But just going by the description there are clearly some non-healthy aspects to this relationship. It's not normal for someone to have to make a tough decision about dealing with frequent meltdowns within the first couple weeks of a relationship, and as others have said the kinds of "fixers" who make the choice to stay in this kind of situation are not always very good at pressuring their partners to take steps toward more healthy behavior. The one actual event mentioned was throwing him out of the house while yelling at him, which is not behavior that most people would put up with in a very new relationship.
It's difficult to tell from the relatively vague description, but this sounds like serious issues that need to be addressed in therapy rather than merely having a temper or being argumentative. I could be completely wrong though and I'm not a therapist, so I apologize if I'm not interpreting the situation correctly.
posted by burnmp3s at 3:41 PM on September 22, 2010
I don't know how it's possible for him to be so nice instead of succumbing to the cycle of abuse from his dad, and he just says...that he knows what it's like to be treated like that so he is a different person than that.
It sounds like he IS still succumbing to the cycle of abuse from his dad, with you in the role of his dad.
Except that he's actually going to change her by example.
posted by esprit de l'escalier at 3:43 PM on September 22, 2010
It sounds like he IS still succumbing to the cycle of abuse from his dad, with you in the role of his dad.
Except that he's actually going to change her by example.
posted by esprit de l'escalier at 3:43 PM on September 22, 2010
Except that he's actually going to change her by example.
?!?
posted by mazola at 3:52 PM on September 22, 2010
?!?
posted by mazola at 3:52 PM on September 22, 2010
Info on locating free and low-cost mental health resources in the US: https://store.samhsa.gov/MHLocator
posted by so_gracefully at 3:57 PM on September 22, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by so_gracefully at 3:57 PM on September 22, 2010 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Thank you all for your thoughtful replies. I've marked a few as "best answer" mostly so I don't forget them, and because they seem to get closest to how I'm feeling and put it in words that I couldn't.
The OP was fueled by emotion; in retrospect I wish I'd spent a little more time thinking through how I wanted to frame it.
To give concrete examples of what happens between us, or what did at the beginning fairly often, was that I would suddenly feel like this was all absolutely too much to handle, and then I would push. I would tell him that I think he should leave because I couldn't handle this and I didn't think he could handle this. I pushed him out the door because I very, very much so wanted him to leave and he just wasn't. That's what I mean by "mean." I haven't called him names and I haven't said things to intentionally hurt him; I just haven't been nice, and I think it's because I'm so scared.
We are incredibly open with each other, so he knows where I'm coming from and he says that he knows I'm just freaking out because I'm scared. But the very first time I felt like I couldn't handle this he said that he didn't think I should pass up what could be an opportunity to be happy.
I talked to him. Since writing my first reply. I asked him if he's a fixer, because we can ask such things of each other and he said that he doesn't think people can be fixed and he doesn't think that I'm a thing that needs to be fixed. He says he worries about the freakouts because he wants me to be happy. He says I'm sweet and kind and nice to him, and I guess I am, or I can be, but I just focus on what happens when I'm in a bad swirly place in my head.
So I guess I'm just going to try to trust him.
Sorry for hijacking AskMefi to be my own personal therapy bubble, but I really, really appreciate getting all of your thoughts.
posted by LokiBear at 4:03 PM on September 22, 2010 [3 favorites]
The OP was fueled by emotion; in retrospect I wish I'd spent a little more time thinking through how I wanted to frame it.
To give concrete examples of what happens between us, or what did at the beginning fairly often, was that I would suddenly feel like this was all absolutely too much to handle, and then I would push. I would tell him that I think he should leave because I couldn't handle this and I didn't think he could handle this. I pushed him out the door because I very, very much so wanted him to leave and he just wasn't. That's what I mean by "mean." I haven't called him names and I haven't said things to intentionally hurt him; I just haven't been nice, and I think it's because I'm so scared.
We are incredibly open with each other, so he knows where I'm coming from and he says that he knows I'm just freaking out because I'm scared. But the very first time I felt like I couldn't handle this he said that he didn't think I should pass up what could be an opportunity to be happy.
I talked to him. Since writing my first reply. I asked him if he's a fixer, because we can ask such things of each other and he said that he doesn't think people can be fixed and he doesn't think that I'm a thing that needs to be fixed. He says he worries about the freakouts because he wants me to be happy. He says I'm sweet and kind and nice to him, and I guess I am, or I can be, but I just focus on what happens when I'm in a bad swirly place in my head.
So I guess I'm just going to try to trust him.
Sorry for hijacking AskMefi to be my own personal therapy bubble, but I really, really appreciate getting all of your thoughts.
posted by LokiBear at 4:03 PM on September 22, 2010 [3 favorites]
Geez, so much of what you've said has been in my head at one time or another!
I'll give you a variation on one of my AskMe Stock Answers here -- basically, that recognizing that you get into spiraling patterns, and then looking for the triggers and/or realizing, "Geez, this SO did not start out being this big of an issue" is a great start to feeling better and getting out of the spirals.
And let's not forget the spirals' evil twin, the wiggles (the sort of nervous processing that can scare lesser people away). Your partner sounds wonderful -- patient and kind and willing to wait out some of the wiggles while you process things out loud. In my view, it's good to get those wiggles out when you can do so in a safe environment, because then they will bug you a lot less during the rest of your life. I hope you guys can manage to find that balance. (We did! w00t w00t!)
posted by Madamina at 4:34 PM on September 22, 2010
I'll give you a variation on one of my AskMe Stock Answers here -- basically, that recognizing that you get into spiraling patterns, and then looking for the triggers and/or realizing, "Geez, this SO did not start out being this big of an issue" is a great start to feeling better and getting out of the spirals.
And let's not forget the spirals' evil twin, the wiggles (the sort of nervous processing that can scare lesser people away). Your partner sounds wonderful -- patient and kind and willing to wait out some of the wiggles while you process things out loud. In my view, it's good to get those wiggles out when you can do so in a safe environment, because then they will bug you a lot less during the rest of your life. I hope you guys can manage to find that balance. (We did! w00t w00t!)
posted by Madamina at 4:34 PM on September 22, 2010
Best answer: I think that people like you who have developed bad ways of acting can get stuck there unless they put a lot of effort into changing and/or get a lot of help. They often get away with it because nobody reinforces good ways of acting early and then later nobody cares enough to put the time in to fix it, or is too afraid, including themselves.
Your boyfriend is very wise (and very loving) to try a non-confrontational approach and letting himself be a great example to you, but you really need to work with him. Drama and turmoil can have a certain excitement to them, and you might miss them, be careful of that. It is really worth becoming a non-violent loving person that others like being around, and who can form stronger bonds and friendships. Stop doubting him and start smiling and appreciating his concern and caring.
posted by meepmeow at 4:43 PM on September 22, 2010 [1 favorite]
Your boyfriend is very wise (and very loving) to try a non-confrontational approach and letting himself be a great example to you, but you really need to work with him. Drama and turmoil can have a certain excitement to them, and you might miss them, be careful of that. It is really worth becoming a non-violent loving person that others like being around, and who can form stronger bonds and friendships. Stop doubting him and start smiling and appreciating his concern and caring.
posted by meepmeow at 4:43 PM on September 22, 2010 [1 favorite]
LokiBear, your situation reminds me of my own at times. We've been together 8 years. He's super kind and patient and I used to be nicknamed (by others) "ball of rage". I think limeonaire is spot on with the "article of faith" bit. I had to just accept that my BF is not me and that he does love me and accepts my crazy faults until he says otherwise. I've had to work a lot over the years to calm myself down and be more at ease with myself. It's been scary and hard and I'm not really all there, but I know I am more aware of the situation and the he will help me with it. Going with the flow sounds sort of trite, but trying to live now and not get stuck in past ruts has really helped me.
posted by kendrak at 4:43 PM on September 22, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by kendrak at 4:43 PM on September 22, 2010 [1 favorite]
I am the man you describe your boyfriend as being. No amount of pushing will make me be mean to someone I'm dating. Why on earth would I be mean to someone I'm dating?!? No matter how hard I try, it just makes no sense - and believe me, I actually did try when I was in a relationship with someone like you.
In the end, our differences led to an end of the relationship. And if memory serves correct, she went on to then date a guy who treated her like crap. And so it goes.
Never forget: You're dating the man he is, not the man you want him to be.
posted by 2oh1 at 4:45 PM on September 22, 2010 [1 favorite]
In the end, our differences led to an end of the relationship. And if memory serves correct, she went on to then date a guy who treated her like crap. And so it goes.
Never forget: You're dating the man he is, not the man you want him to be.
posted by 2oh1 at 4:45 PM on September 22, 2010 [1 favorite]
He is patient and kind and gentle and all I want is for him to push *back.* I want him to be mean to me when I'm mean to him...
I think this is an important insight, something worth thinking about. You might try to find out what emotions come up for you when he doesn't give you what you want. Obviously your whole post is about that, but it reads a bit controlled and distant from your real reactions, which probably reflects the fact that you've been able to gain at least a measure of control over your emotions. But now that you can do that, it might be helpful to start thinking about them too.
It seems like there's two things going on for you, which seem sort of contradictory: you want him to get angry and snap back at you, and yet you also believe that secretly, he is angry. You believe the relationship won't last because he isn't angry enough, and also that it won't work out because he is angry, and hiding it. Having multiple inconsistent reasons why the relationship won't work strikes me as unconscious self-sabotage, and the problem is that you can't accept the absence of the problem. Who knows why? Maybe you have a self-image as a broken person and need that to be reinforced. Maybe you are trying to provoke him into taking a parental role towards you, to prove that he can overpower you and negate you. Or, it's just garden-variety self-sabotage. Some psychoanalysts think that anxiety is experienced when the object of desire comes too close and that seems to fit here. You have what you want: a nice, non-abusive guy, and you are afraid that the relationship will disappoint you. Better to have no relationship (or a deeply flawed relationship) and keep it at a distance so you can keep dreaming about it.
posted by AlsoMike at 5:07 PM on September 22, 2010
I think this is an important insight, something worth thinking about. You might try to find out what emotions come up for you when he doesn't give you what you want. Obviously your whole post is about that, but it reads a bit controlled and distant from your real reactions, which probably reflects the fact that you've been able to gain at least a measure of control over your emotions. But now that you can do that, it might be helpful to start thinking about them too.
It seems like there's two things going on for you, which seem sort of contradictory: you want him to get angry and snap back at you, and yet you also believe that secretly, he is angry. You believe the relationship won't last because he isn't angry enough, and also that it won't work out because he is angry, and hiding it. Having multiple inconsistent reasons why the relationship won't work strikes me as unconscious self-sabotage, and the problem is that you can't accept the absence of the problem. Who knows why? Maybe you have a self-image as a broken person and need that to be reinforced. Maybe you are trying to provoke him into taking a parental role towards you, to prove that he can overpower you and negate you. Or, it's just garden-variety self-sabotage. Some psychoanalysts think that anxiety is experienced when the object of desire comes too close and that seems to fit here. You have what you want: a nice, non-abusive guy, and you are afraid that the relationship will disappoint you. Better to have no relationship (or a deeply flawed relationship) and keep it at a distance so you can keep dreaming about it.
posted by AlsoMike at 5:07 PM on September 22, 2010
I want him to be mean to me when I'm mean to him (he insists, thus far, that I haven't been mean and when I have it was coming from a screwy place of trying to protect him [i.e. throwing him out of the house and yelling at him that I just can't handle this and he should get out while he still can]). I want him to yell back and get grumpy back at me.
Um, you don't have to be this way. Don't be mean! You're an adult! If you're really throwing him out of the house and yelling at him, he should probably leave. Don't abuse your boyfriend. Maybe you need to work on talking about things before it gets to the level where you want to have a dramatic blow up and yell and scream. I have a wicked temper on occasion and it usually comes out when something that strikes me as fundamentally wrong and unjust is happening, kind of a moralistic streak for better or worse.. If your temper comes out for the same reason, well.. your boyfriend being nice to you is not wrong. There's not something wrong with you that means you deserve to be in a relationship that's all about yelling and drama and abusive behavior.
posted by citron at 7:03 PM on September 22, 2010 [2 favorites]
Um, you don't have to be this way. Don't be mean! You're an adult! If you're really throwing him out of the house and yelling at him, he should probably leave. Don't abuse your boyfriend. Maybe you need to work on talking about things before it gets to the level where you want to have a dramatic blow up and yell and scream. I have a wicked temper on occasion and it usually comes out when something that strikes me as fundamentally wrong and unjust is happening, kind of a moralistic streak for better or worse.. If your temper comes out for the same reason, well.. your boyfriend being nice to you is not wrong. There's not something wrong with you that means you deserve to be in a relationship that's all about yelling and drama and abusive behavior.
posted by citron at 7:03 PM on September 22, 2010 [2 favorites]
This can only work if you continue to actively work to not instigate and push - to get to the roots of what is pushing you to behave that way, and choose differently. If you're a grad student, there are likely a number of options for help available. Don't dismiss them out of hand before you've looked into them.
Otherwise, you will script a self-fulfilling prophecy.
posted by canine epigram at 7:55 PM on September 22, 2010 [1 favorite]
Otherwise, you will script a self-fulfilling prophecy.
posted by canine epigram at 7:55 PM on September 22, 2010 [1 favorite]
One more thing! You wrote "I'm pretty sure I've used up my free sessions at the student counseling center (and I wouldn't want to occupy that time when other people with more serious problems could be using it)."
This is a serious problem if it keeps interfering with your daily life and your relationship. That qualifies! Go in and make sure. And if they say "It looks like you've used them up," then say "Is it possible to get more?" and "Do you have couples counseling?" and "Do you have referrals to sliding-scale therapists in the community?"
Best wishes!
posted by wintersweet at 8:02 PM on September 22, 2010
This is a serious problem if it keeps interfering with your daily life and your relationship. That qualifies! Go in and make sure. And if they say "It looks like you've used them up," then say "Is it possible to get more?" and "Do you have couples counseling?" and "Do you have referrals to sliding-scale therapists in the community?"
Best wishes!
posted by wintersweet at 8:02 PM on September 22, 2010
I see the impulse to pick a fight as similar to the urge to compulsively eat or cut or get wasted or any number of self-destructive things. Emotions are easily quelled/ignored when there's shiny DRAMA to play with.
Of course it would be easier to engage in a quick fight than to really sit with uncomfortable emotions and feelings, which is what your BF is forcing you to do when he refuses to engage.
It sounds like you are mistaking engaging in drama for loving/normal behavior. Do what you can to reset your barometer for normal, even if it means sitting with some highly uncomfortable emotions for a while. Enlist what help you can, and don't give up. Wishing you the best.
posted by mynameisluka at 8:21 PM on September 22, 2010 [5 favorites]
Of course it would be easier to engage in a quick fight than to really sit with uncomfortable emotions and feelings, which is what your BF is forcing you to do when he refuses to engage.
It sounds like you are mistaking engaging in drama for loving/normal behavior. Do what you can to reset your barometer for normal, even if it means sitting with some highly uncomfortable emotions for a while. Enlist what help you can, and don't give up. Wishing you the best.
posted by mynameisluka at 8:21 PM on September 22, 2010 [5 favorites]
This may seem like an odd question...but when your boyfriend talks about his ex-wife, does he do it in a disrespectful manner? Does your boyfriend show any jealousy?
Given that you have been in DV relationships in the past, I'm sure you are familier with the first stage - They seem like the perfect guy. From how you described him, he seems to have some of the markers:
1) He grew up in a violent home
2) When talking about past relationships, he puts the blame on the partner (almost as if he is a victim)
3) Seems like the perfect guy in the beginning.
4) You have been in DV relaionships before and will attract men that will continue the pattern.
This guy could be fantastic and I'm not trying to get in the way of that. But you do have a responsibilty to yourself to make sure that he is safe. Sometimes that takes a little outside perspective and rigid boundaries.
posted by WhiteWhale at 8:54 PM on September 22, 2010
Given that you have been in DV relationships in the past, I'm sure you are familier with the first stage - They seem like the perfect guy. From how you described him, he seems to have some of the markers:
1) He grew up in a violent home
2) When talking about past relationships, he puts the blame on the partner (almost as if he is a victim)
3) Seems like the perfect guy in the beginning.
4) You have been in DV relaionships before and will attract men that will continue the pattern.
This guy could be fantastic and I'm not trying to get in the way of that. But you do have a responsibilty to yourself to make sure that he is safe. Sometimes that takes a little outside perspective and rigid boundaries.
posted by WhiteWhale at 8:54 PM on September 22, 2010
Why can't I believe he is sincere? Why can't I believe that his judgment isn't clouded by how smitten he is with me (which is another thing that I'm having a hard time coming to grips with, because it's never really happened before) and once those initial fluffy feelings wear off he's going to wonder what he's gotten himself into?
Take what I say here with a grain of salt if it doesn't fit you, because (and I don't mean this in an unpleasant way) this question, particularly with the follow-up posts, is a bit of a Rorschach: "I'm mean but I'm not mean and shouldn't have phrased it that way," etc., so I'm not quite sure I'm getting it but will take a shot.
It does take some time to recover from crappy relationships. For me, it took about four years after a four year relationship. Coming out of an oppressive relationship, the combination of (a) really wanting to be with someone not pushy and (b) being in the habit of having to assert yourself strongly, can together lead to having an out-of-balance relationship, if you're not extra-careful. Probably both of you play some role here.
It does sound like you're somewhat uncomfortable with your behavior. He can say he's fine with it and that he'll stick around, but what does that matter if you're not comfortable? You have to feel proud of your behavior. Even if he were a doormat, do want to be someone who walks all over someone? No. So. It sounds like you think he is putting up with things that he should not. And that you are behaving in ways that you wish you were not.
The good news is that you are at the beginning, and so you are still establishing behavior patterns, and so small shifts in your own behavior now will have big rewards. Once you find the money, couples therapy would probably really help you both make sure you're not getting stuck in a pattern of relating in an unbalanced way, or to get you unstuck if you created patterns in the meantime. Best of luck!
posted by salvia at 9:04 PM on September 22, 2010 [1 favorite]
Take what I say here with a grain of salt if it doesn't fit you, because (and I don't mean this in an unpleasant way) this question, particularly with the follow-up posts, is a bit of a Rorschach: "I'm mean but I'm not mean and shouldn't have phrased it that way," etc., so I'm not quite sure I'm getting it but will take a shot.
It does take some time to recover from crappy relationships. For me, it took about four years after a four year relationship. Coming out of an oppressive relationship, the combination of (a) really wanting to be with someone not pushy and (b) being in the habit of having to assert yourself strongly, can together lead to having an out-of-balance relationship, if you're not extra-careful. Probably both of you play some role here.
It does sound like you're somewhat uncomfortable with your behavior. He can say he's fine with it and that he'll stick around, but what does that matter if you're not comfortable? You have to feel proud of your behavior. Even if he were a doormat, do want to be someone who walks all over someone? No. So. It sounds like you think he is putting up with things that he should not. And that you are behaving in ways that you wish you were not.
The good news is that you are at the beginning, and so you are still establishing behavior patterns, and so small shifts in your own behavior now will have big rewards. Once you find the money, couples therapy would probably really help you both make sure you're not getting stuck in a pattern of relating in an unbalanced way, or to get you unstuck if you created patterns in the meantime. Best of luck!
posted by salvia at 9:04 PM on September 22, 2010 [1 favorite]
Also, I was just sitting here thinking a bit more about what "small shifts in your own behavior" might help. One possible shift might be to instigate less, and find a way to ask for that reaction you're trying to instigate. It seems to me like you might learn from reading up on assertive vs. aggressive and reminding yourself that he has the right to not do whatever it is that you want him to do. So, if you're being argumentative and pushing until he reacts, you could say "oh man, I want to argue with you about going to the party, because you haven't even said why you don't want to go and I really want to hear the reasons. But you obviously totally have the right not to go, and you don't even have to explain to me why not. But would you? At least explain it?"
And then the other thing is to pay more attention to him. It sounds like you're used to people who have big reactions. He's not a big-acting guy, and he won't be. So, can you do the equivalent of using a zoom lens, so that by focusing on him more closely, you can see what his actions mean to him? Those actions probably communicate the same interesting range of preferences and emotions, even if they're expressed in ways that are less huge and aggressive than Guy #1.
Finally, be aware he may be really focused on you. Such as, on making you happy, or on managing and reacting to your bigger emotions. That's what he grew up learning. You putting focus on him (as in the paragraph above) may be something he tries to deflect. If you try "I don't know, where do you want to go?" it may be an uncomfortable vacuum for awhile. I think for a shift to occur on his end, you'll have to neither take the bait ("okay, to the park") nor react ("how come I always have to decide??") and just be a little chill about letting him start to be more active.
Again, I'm not totally confident I have a good read on this situation, so this may all be random and not useful. Good luck.
posted by salvia at 9:21 PM on September 22, 2010
And then the other thing is to pay more attention to him. It sounds like you're used to people who have big reactions. He's not a big-acting guy, and he won't be. So, can you do the equivalent of using a zoom lens, so that by focusing on him more closely, you can see what his actions mean to him? Those actions probably communicate the same interesting range of preferences and emotions, even if they're expressed in ways that are less huge and aggressive than Guy #1.
Finally, be aware he may be really focused on you. Such as, on making you happy, or on managing and reacting to your bigger emotions. That's what he grew up learning. You putting focus on him (as in the paragraph above) may be something he tries to deflect. If you try "I don't know, where do you want to go?" it may be an uncomfortable vacuum for awhile. I think for a shift to occur on his end, you'll have to neither take the bait ("okay, to the park") nor react ("how come I always have to decide??") and just be a little chill about letting him start to be more active.
Again, I'm not totally confident I have a good read on this situation, so this may all be random and not useful. Good luck.
posted by salvia at 9:21 PM on September 22, 2010
The closer he draws the line to himself, the more drastic his reaction will be it's crossed. Don't test it.
posted by jstarlee at 10:03 PM on September 22, 2010
posted by jstarlee at 10:03 PM on September 22, 2010
You will destroy this man.
And all your excuses not to get therapy? Textbook abuse.
posted by CautionToTheWind at 1:10 AM on September 23, 2010 [3 favorites]
And all your excuses not to get therapy? Textbook abuse.
posted by CautionToTheWind at 1:10 AM on September 23, 2010 [3 favorites]
You sound like my ex-wife. After we divorced, because I just couldn't put up with the abuse, the belittling, the snide remarks, the angry outbursts, she told me "I just wanted you to argue back".
It amazed me that *I* had to take on the responsibility for satisfying/responding to *HER* behaviour. She wasn't my responsibility to fix, whatever else had happened in her life.
So, 1) be aware that there's only so much a person can take, regardless of how much they say they love you. All credit to you for recognising your current behaviour though.
It may also be that he simply is not the type of person who can respond adequately when you're flinging lightning bolts at him. I have to ponder bits of an argument before replying, and this only enraged my ex even more; she often accused me of "having nothing to say". No, I have plenty to say, it just takes effort to create a rational response to irrational statements.
So bit-of-advice 2): if you have to rage at him, just make it a general rant. If you're looking to evoke a reaction and you don't get one, then he undoubtedly doesn't argue the same way you do. Don't keep pushing. See 1) above.
tl;dr
don't push him over the edge
don't bait him
posted by flutable at 1:17 AM on September 23, 2010 [2 favorites]
It amazed me that *I* had to take on the responsibility for satisfying/responding to *HER* behaviour. She wasn't my responsibility to fix, whatever else had happened in her life.
So, 1) be aware that there's only so much a person can take, regardless of how much they say they love you. All credit to you for recognising your current behaviour though.
It may also be that he simply is not the type of person who can respond adequately when you're flinging lightning bolts at him. I have to ponder bits of an argument before replying, and this only enraged my ex even more; she often accused me of "having nothing to say". No, I have plenty to say, it just takes effort to create a rational response to irrational statements.
So bit-of-advice 2): if you have to rage at him, just make it a general rant. If you're looking to evoke a reaction and you don't get one, then he undoubtedly doesn't argue the same way you do. Don't keep pushing. See 1) above.
tl;dr
don't push him over the edge
don't bait him
posted by flutable at 1:17 AM on September 23, 2010 [2 favorites]
He is patient and kind and gentle and all I want is for him to push *back.* I want him to be mean to me when I'm mean to him...
I understand this feeling. I was around a lot of out-of-control anger as a child and my response was to withdraw. I was never allowed to fight back or express my feelings. My model of relationships was that one side could do whatever they wanted and the other side just had to take it.
As an adult I am very afraid of my own anger. When the other person doesn't "push back" my fear is that my emotions will get out of control and I will turn into the ugly abusers I knew growing up. And it's a valid fear--but the way out of it is to do what the abusers didn't, which is learn that you can control your own emotional responses. But to do that you have to be willing to face those emotions, not stuff them or run away from them or find someone else to represent them for you (ie an abusive person).
posted by cottonswab at 5:30 AM on September 23, 2010 [2 favorites]
I understand this feeling. I was around a lot of out-of-control anger as a child and my response was to withdraw. I was never allowed to fight back or express my feelings. My model of relationships was that one side could do whatever they wanted and the other side just had to take it.
As an adult I am very afraid of my own anger. When the other person doesn't "push back" my fear is that my emotions will get out of control and I will turn into the ugly abusers I knew growing up. And it's a valid fear--but the way out of it is to do what the abusers didn't, which is learn that you can control your own emotional responses. But to do that you have to be willing to face those emotions, not stuff them or run away from them or find someone else to represent them for you (ie an abusive person).
posted by cottonswab at 5:30 AM on September 23, 2010 [2 favorites]
My two cents, FWIW: Change doesn't happen in your comfort zone. You have to be willing to step outside of it and see what happens.
Lots of good advice here. I hope you take what resonates to heart.
posted by Mysticalchick at 6:04 AM on September 23, 2010 [3 favorites]
Lots of good advice here. I hope you take what resonates to heart.
posted by Mysticalchick at 6:04 AM on September 23, 2010 [3 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
FYI, Mefi seems pretty good at finding cheap shrinks who work on a sliding scale, so if you mention your general area, perhaps people can help in this area.
posted by nomadicink at 1:54 PM on September 22, 2010 [1 favorite]