Keep my U.S. job, live in Canada?
June 28, 2010 6:22 PM Subscribe
Moving to Vancouver from Washington DC with my wife (who's attending a Canadian university). My American job wants me to work for them remotely, and I'm into it - but what would this look like? Where do we start?
My wife got into UBC for a graduate degree, which starts this January. Her student visa allows her to bring a spouse, so we're moving up there in December.
We're gunning for eventual residency/citizenship, which seems doable given a number of factors. In the meantime, though, I'd like to keep working remotely from Vancouver for my existing company in the U.S.
They've expressed a definite interest in letting me do this, but I can't figure out what steps I would take to set this up. Will it just mean tracking more taxable work? Will I need any kind of permit? Is it legal? Does it count as "work"?
My wife got into UBC for a graduate degree, which starts this January. Her student visa allows her to bring a spouse, so we're moving up there in December.
We're gunning for eventual residency/citizenship, which seems doable given a number of factors. In the meantime, though, I'd like to keep working remotely from Vancouver for my existing company in the U.S.
They've expressed a definite interest in letting me do this, but I can't figure out what steps I would take to set this up. Will it just mean tracking more taxable work? Will I need any kind of permit? Is it legal? Does it count as "work"?
Just to be clear: visitor status it what you get by default at the border. That is a legal immigration status, and would allow you to do what you propose. But visitor status is a only good for a maximum of six months, so if you stay for MORE than six months without filing an extension (which will be denied unless you have a good reason) you'd be in the country illegally.
I just looked at this page on CIC's web site and it looks like you'd be eligible for an open work permit if your spouse is studying full time in Canada. You still have to apply for the work permit (it's not automatic) but there's no reason it would be denied unless you have some other reason for inadmissibility.
posted by Emanuel at 9:44 PM on June 28, 2010
I just looked at this page on CIC's web site and it looks like you'd be eligible for an open work permit if your spouse is studying full time in Canada. You still have to apply for the work permit (it's not automatic) but there's no reason it would be denied unless you have some other reason for inadmissibility.
posted by Emanuel at 9:44 PM on June 28, 2010
Presumably your wife's student visa sponsors you as a spouse, so there is no need to worry about visitor status, etc.
I have no idea about whether or not your status as a spouse entitles you to work in Canada. If it does, but you work remotely, you may need to consider filing for income tax in Canada. It's no big deal (besides the work it takes to file your taxes) and it won't cost you any extra money, since your income will be earned in the US, outside of Canada, and will be taxed in the US - if you are taxed by a foreign government (in this case the US), Canada will not tax the same income twice.
However, I wouldn't worry about taxes too much.
Having worked remotely (I am working remotely at the moment), I think the biggest thing you should be thinking about is metrics (how your company will measure your performance) and communication.
Out of sight often equals out of mind. If you can create a workplan before you go with specific performance indicators, benchmarks, activities and tasks, it will make it easier for you to work remotely.
Showing up is 80% of success, right? Since you won't be around, you need to make sure your employer knows what you're doing, and if you are meeting (or exceeding) your goals. You'll have very little face time, if any at all.
By creating some sort of workplan, you also have a document in writing that recognizes that you will be "absent" and that presents a plan for concretely dealing with your absence. A plan will answer a lot of questions (or keep questions from being asked).
Creating some sort of communications schedule is also important. Every supervisor has his or her own preferred communication style. Everyone is busy, and when you are away from the office it is difficult to encounter someone in the hall for a quick face-to-face.
Some supervisors prefer email. Some prefer the phone. How will your supervisor want to interact with you? Find out, and get a commitment to communicate.
Do you have your supervisor's IM info? Is your supervisor familiar with Skype? Can you educate them about Skype?
Skype's video call function alone will make working remotely sooooo much easier. Facial expressions and body language are so important for establishing and maintaining rapport.
Who will support your infrastructure costs? Can you cost out your utilities, such as electricity, phone, rent and insurance, and get your employer to chip in?
At the very least, you should cost it out, and let them know how much these infrastructure costs will be. If they hesitate towards paying them, offer to cover them yourself. This way they know you are contributing to the situation - on a yearly basis these infrastructure costs could add up to nearly $1000, so that's brownie points for you.
Make friends with your IT department, because you will be completely at their mercy. Completely. Let them know about your plans. Schedule monthly check-in meetings.
See if your employer is willing to fly you back to your office once a quarter for face time. If they can't do that, try to arrange it yourself.
Stay in touch with your colleagues, too.
posted by KokuRyu at 10:58 PM on June 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
I have no idea about whether or not your status as a spouse entitles you to work in Canada. If it does, but you work remotely, you may need to consider filing for income tax in Canada. It's no big deal (besides the work it takes to file your taxes) and it won't cost you any extra money, since your income will be earned in the US, outside of Canada, and will be taxed in the US - if you are taxed by a foreign government (in this case the US), Canada will not tax the same income twice.
However, I wouldn't worry about taxes too much.
Having worked remotely (I am working remotely at the moment), I think the biggest thing you should be thinking about is metrics (how your company will measure your performance) and communication.
Out of sight often equals out of mind. If you can create a workplan before you go with specific performance indicators, benchmarks, activities and tasks, it will make it easier for you to work remotely.
Showing up is 80% of success, right? Since you won't be around, you need to make sure your employer knows what you're doing, and if you are meeting (or exceeding) your goals. You'll have very little face time, if any at all.
By creating some sort of workplan, you also have a document in writing that recognizes that you will be "absent" and that presents a plan for concretely dealing with your absence. A plan will answer a lot of questions (or keep questions from being asked).
Creating some sort of communications schedule is also important. Every supervisor has his or her own preferred communication style. Everyone is busy, and when you are away from the office it is difficult to encounter someone in the hall for a quick face-to-face.
Some supervisors prefer email. Some prefer the phone. How will your supervisor want to interact with you? Find out, and get a commitment to communicate.
Do you have your supervisor's IM info? Is your supervisor familiar with Skype? Can you educate them about Skype?
Skype's video call function alone will make working remotely sooooo much easier. Facial expressions and body language are so important for establishing and maintaining rapport.
Who will support your infrastructure costs? Can you cost out your utilities, such as electricity, phone, rent and insurance, and get your employer to chip in?
At the very least, you should cost it out, and let them know how much these infrastructure costs will be. If they hesitate towards paying them, offer to cover them yourself. This way they know you are contributing to the situation - on a yearly basis these infrastructure costs could add up to nearly $1000, so that's brownie points for you.
Make friends with your IT department, because you will be completely at their mercy. Completely. Let them know about your plans. Schedule monthly check-in meetings.
See if your employer is willing to fly you back to your office once a quarter for face time. If they can't do that, try to arrange it yourself.
Stay in touch with your colleagues, too.
posted by KokuRyu at 10:58 PM on June 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
You're in Washington. Can't you just pop into the Canadian embassy and ask around? I think your situation is not at all unusual and it wouldn't surprise me if we have a permit or a visa for just such a thing.
I and Canadian work occasionally in the States on a NAFTA Trader visa and was informed that under a certain amount, my US income was dealt with under a tax treaty so I just file takes in Canada as usual. Your milage may vary, so you should probably talk to someone at the IRS.
Regardless, if you decide you want to stay, or you have to change your visa, you'll need to head back to the States to do that. Seattle is a mere 3 hours away, and is a nice drive. There is a US Consulate in Vancouver which despite feeling like a security maze is full of usually helpful people. It's pretty easy to shuffle between Vancouver and Seattle to get paperwork done.
Bottom line, ask the officials. You aren't doing anything illegal and my extensive experience with border guards on each side is that they are usually more than happy to help you become legal, if you aren't trying to pull one over on them. Be prepared for long lines and insane amounts of paperwork, and be sure you follow everything to the letter, and if you get into a dispute with someone, concede ground and move on. Consult a lawyer if things become too complicated, perhaps UBC has someone on staff who can help out.
Welcome to Canada!
posted by salishsea at 1:39 AM on June 29, 2010
I and Canadian work occasionally in the States on a NAFTA Trader visa and was informed that under a certain amount, my US income was dealt with under a tax treaty so I just file takes in Canada as usual. Your milage may vary, so you should probably talk to someone at the IRS.
Regardless, if you decide you want to stay, or you have to change your visa, you'll need to head back to the States to do that. Seattle is a mere 3 hours away, and is a nice drive. There is a US Consulate in Vancouver which despite feeling like a security maze is full of usually helpful people. It's pretty easy to shuffle between Vancouver and Seattle to get paperwork done.
Bottom line, ask the officials. You aren't doing anything illegal and my extensive experience with border guards on each side is that they are usually more than happy to help you become legal, if you aren't trying to pull one over on them. Be prepared for long lines and insane amounts of paperwork, and be sure you follow everything to the letter, and if you get into a dispute with someone, concede ground and move on. Consult a lawyer if things become too complicated, perhaps UBC has someone on staff who can help out.
Welcome to Canada!
posted by salishsea at 1:39 AM on June 29, 2010
Can't you just pop into the Canadian embassy and ask around? I think your situation is not at all unusual and it wouldn't surprise me if we have a permit or a visa for just such a thing.
The wife here. For the benefit of future readers of this post:
My experience with the Embassy visa services desk was, let's say, sub-optimal... like the DMV. I turned over my student visa application, and when the clerk saw that he'd be coming with me she said he'd need a work permit regardless. (Even if he's working for a US company.) Tried to ask more questions, but it was clear she was having none of it. The visa desk is open only 2 hours a day, 4 days a week. I'd definitely have to talk to a real agency official, and they're buffered by these intake staff.
Basically our understanding is that he's allowed to enter the country with me, sans his own visa. Beyond that is a gray area.
posted by wowbobwow at 8:09 AM on June 29, 2010
The wife here. For the benefit of future readers of this post:
My experience with the Embassy visa services desk was, let's say, sub-optimal... like the DMV. I turned over my student visa application, and when the clerk saw that he'd be coming with me she said he'd need a work permit regardless. (Even if he's working for a US company.) Tried to ask more questions, but it was clear she was having none of it. The visa desk is open only 2 hours a day, 4 days a week. I'd definitely have to talk to a real agency official, and they're buffered by these intake staff.
Basically our understanding is that he's allowed to enter the country with me, sans his own visa. Beyond that is a gray area.
posted by wowbobwow at 8:09 AM on June 29, 2010
Response by poster: Thanks for the answers, everyone - it sounds like I should be okay to move up there and start working for my American company without a work permit, but I'm definitely going to seek out a tax accountant once we move in.
If I eventually want a Canadian job, my title is on the Skilled Worker Matrix that the CIC has, and it seems like I won't encounter a lot of difficulty (especially if I'm already living locally when interviewing). From what I read, my prospective employer would need to to give me a super-official offer letter, which I would then use to apply for a work permit. This process sounds like it could take a while, but since I'll be legally living in the country and still making a salary, it sounds doable.
From what I've read, I'll definitely want to stay on my company health plan unless we get permanent residency - I'll want to talk with them and figure out how to use my existing coverage while in Canada.
posted by dougunderscorenelso at 10:43 AM on June 29, 2010
If I eventually want a Canadian job, my title is on the Skilled Worker Matrix that the CIC has, and it seems like I won't encounter a lot of difficulty (especially if I'm already living locally when interviewing). From what I read, my prospective employer would need to to give me a super-official offer letter, which I would then use to apply for a work permit. This process sounds like it could take a while, but since I'll be legally living in the country and still making a salary, it sounds doable.
From what I've read, I'll definitely want to stay on my company health plan unless we get permanent residency - I'll want to talk with them and figure out how to use my existing coverage while in Canada.
posted by dougunderscorenelso at 10:43 AM on June 29, 2010
Best answer: If you get a work permit valid for > 1 year, you'll be eligible for MSP (the provincial health plan) in B.C. There is a waiting period of 3 months after you arrive though, so you'll want to have some kind of coverage in the interim.
You don't need any of that stuff about a job offer to get a work permit. Because your spouse will have a study permit, you will automatically be eligible for an open work permit (meaning you can work for anybody you want). This is outlined here. You'll definitely want to do that, otherwise you'll have to keep renewing your visitor status every six months, with the risk that it'll be denied (very likely, but if they're feeling nice they'll give you one extension and tell you that you'd better apply for your work permit if you want to stay longer). Applying for an open work permit is almost as easy as applying for a visitor status extension anyway.
Also with a work permit you'll be able to leave Canada without risking being denied entry when you return (whereas visitor status disappears as soon as you leave, regardless of whether you got an extension). Another advantage is you can get a SIN (like a SSN), which means you can get a bank account, credit card, cellphone, etc more easily.
posted by Emanuel at 6:08 PM on June 29, 2010
You don't need any of that stuff about a job offer to get a work permit. Because your spouse will have a study permit, you will automatically be eligible for an open work permit (meaning you can work for anybody you want). This is outlined here. You'll definitely want to do that, otherwise you'll have to keep renewing your visitor status every six months, with the risk that it'll be denied (very likely, but if they're feeling nice they'll give you one extension and tell you that you'd better apply for your work permit if you want to stay longer). Applying for an open work permit is almost as easy as applying for a visitor status extension anyway.
Also with a work permit you'll be able to leave Canada without risking being denied entry when you return (whereas visitor status disappears as soon as you leave, regardless of whether you got an extension). Another advantage is you can get a SIN (like a SSN), which means you can get a bank account, credit card, cellphone, etc more easily.
posted by Emanuel at 6:08 PM on June 29, 2010
Response by poster: Emanuel, THANK YOU. I can't believe I'd missed that page, this is really excellent news.
posted by dougunderscorenelso at 7:44 PM on June 29, 2010
posted by dougunderscorenelso at 7:44 PM on June 29, 2010
I'm a US citizen who once lived in Vancouver BC for two years on a spousal open work permit, so I can confirm that what Emanuel said is correct. Also, I can recommend a great tax accountant in Vancouver who specializes in US/Canada cross-border tax issues. I'll send you the accountant's contact info via MeMail.
Best of luck with your exciting move! Vancouver is a great city.
posted by velvet winter at 11:05 AM on June 30, 2010
Best of luck with your exciting move! Vancouver is a great city.
posted by velvet winter at 11:05 AM on June 30, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
It gets more complicated when it comes to taxes, and I'd recommend having an accountant who is versed in both US and Canadian tax law, which shouldn't be any problem in a major Canadian city since there are many American expats who have to file both US and Canadian tax returns. If you're not a Canadian resident for tax purposes (note: this is different from being a resident as far as immigration is concerned), you'd probably just keep filing with the IRS. If you are a Canadian resident for tax purposes, you'd need to file with both the IRS and CRA (Canada Revenue Agency). I have no idea what the rules are as far as being an employee vs. 1099 vs. non-1099 contractor. Even if you have to file in both countries, you only need to pay in one unless you're making a whole lot of money (due to the tax treaty).
posted by Emanuel at 9:34 PM on June 28, 2010